>> president katherine feinstein: this is the fire commission meeting of

september 28, 2022. at 5:00. the mayor's emergency proclamation. side understandable that some members may participate the meeting virtually and public members may make public comment online and you may also watch at sfgovtv.org to participate in public comment, please dial to join the meeting, use the following link for attendees: https://ccsf.webex.com/ccsf/ onstage/g.php?mtid=e68285d5b365a 8db3ee7a236fc48963c9 watch live at www.sfgovtv.org

participating during public comment: by phone public comment call in number is: 1-415-655-0001 access code: 2483 487 9705 members of the public will have opportunities to participate during public comment. the public is asked to wait for the particular agenda item before making a comment on that item. comments will be addressed in the order they are received. when the moderator announces that the commission is taking public comment, members of the public can: 1. raise hand” by pressing * 3 and you will be queued. 2. callers will hear silence when waiting for your turn to speak. operator will unmute you. 3. when prompted, callers will have the standard three minutes to provide comment unless the president of the commission decides to reduce the time depending on the number of callers: • ensure you are in a quiet location. • speak clearly. • turn off any tvs or radios around you. i would also like to announce that our next meeting october 12th, will be held in the headquarters on the first floor. >> item one.

role call. >> >> president katherine feinstein: present. >>vice-president stephen nakajo: present. >> commissioner marcy fraser: present. commissioner morgan has been excused from the meeting. >> >> chief jeanine nicholson: present. >> item 2 item will be read by president feinstein. >> thank you. >> 2. ramaytush ohlone land acknowledgement the san francisco fire commission acknowledges that we are on the unceded ancestral homeland of the ramaytush ohlone who are the original inhabitants of the san francisco peninsula. as the indigenous stewards of this land, and in accordance with their traditions, the ramaytush ohlone have never ceded, lost, nor forgotten their responsibilities as the caretakers of this place, as well as for all peoples who reside in their traditional territory. as guests, we

recognize that we benefit from living and working on their traditional homeland. we wish to pay our respects by acknowledging the ancestors, elders, and relatives of the ramaytush ohlone community and by affirming their sovereign rights as first peoples. >> thank you very much. >> >>clerk: item 3. >> 3. resolution 2022-13 [discussion and possible action] adoption of resolution setting forth findings to allow teleconferenced meetings under california government code section 54953(e). is there any public comment on this matter? >> there is no public comment on the line. >> is there any discussion by any of our commissioners? all right. may i have a motion, please?

>> second. >> thank you. >> [roll call] >> the motion is unanimous. >> item 4. >> 4. resolution 2022-14 [discussion and possible action] resolution adopting that the h-9 community paramedic position of the san francisco fire department be created >> all right. any public comment? >> there is no public comment on the line. >> all right. any questions or comments from my colleagues? >> yes, vice-president nakajo? >> >>vice-president stephen nakajo: there are introductions that the chief of the department wants to make on this resolution 2022-14 at this time. >> >> president katherine feinstein: chief, your call.

>> >> chief jeanine nicholson: i will have the deputy speak on this as it falls under his purview. >> all right. good evening, chief.

>> it enables people to stay current in both positions, right? they can still be practiced and ready in emergency response and also practice in community medicine. we are very happy with the position and we hope you pass this resolution. >> all right. thank you. >> i'm sorry, madam secretary, is there any public comment? >> there is no public comment. >> at this time the public comment is closed. at this time, i will ask that we pass the resolution. >> second. >> [roll call] >> the motion is unanimous. >> 5. approval of the minutes [discussion and possible action] discussion and possible action to approve meeting minutes. • minutes from regular meeting on august 24, 2022.

>> president katherine feinstein: any public comment on the minutes? there is no public comment. >> any comment from my fellow commissioners. >> madam president, i would like to move this item to adopt. >> second. >> i vote to adopt. >> the motion is unanimous. >> 6 general public comment members of the public may address the commission for up to three minutes on any matter within the commission's jurisdiction that does not appear on the agenda. speakers shall address their remarks to the commission as a whole and not to individual commissioners or department personnel. commissioners are not to enter into debate or discussion with a speaker. the lack of a response by the commissioners or department personnel does not necessarily constitute agreement with or support of statements made during public comment.

there is nobody on the public comment line. >> all right. i see no one present that wishes to make public comment. public comment will be closed on this matter. >> >>clerk: 7. chief of department's report [discussion] report from chief of department, jeanine nicholson report on current issues, activities, and events within the department since the fire commission meeting on august 24, 2022, including budget, academies, special events, communications, and outreach to other government agencies and the public. report from operations, deputy chief robert postel report on overall field operations, including greater alarm fires, bureau of fire prevention & investigation, training within the department., and airport division. report from administration, deputy chief tom o'connor report on the administrative divisions, fleet and facility status and updates, finance, support services, and homeland security. report from ems and community paramedicine, deputy chief sandra tong

report on the ems and community paramedicine divisions >> >> chief, good evening. >> good evening and salutations. i am chief jeanine nicholson. although it has gotten better, covid is still around and we have two team members positive that have been out less than 30 days and we have six out due to covid. it has dropped a bit but is still an issue.

after being chosen by the review panel, i am happy to announce the position of the chief -- will fill chief tong shoes and i'm sure he will do a great job. congratulations to you, young ladd. i have enjoyed my 25th candidate and each candidate goes through a panel of members and they recommend people to my office for interviews.

the offer should go out for the 21st academy september 30th. >> there was a great fundraiser that went to support the black firefighters association youth academy. on september 11th, we did not celebrate, we commemorated the 21st anniversary of 911, 2001. i would like to thank the staff for helping with that. we were at the public library and it was

a somber but beautiful little ceremony. >> i have attended city hall and attended a meeting about the netherlands and she talked about making it equal to everyone. you may remember the netherlands was the first country to make legal marriage in 2001. the city is opening up and i met in chinatown with some of my command staff with the san francisco police department. i also attended the autumn moon festival, sort of a thanksgiving

of sorts in the chinese community. and it's really great to be out and about and seeing others out and about post covid, communities coming together. i met with los angeles fire chief recently to discuss many topics, but one of them being basically managerial risk management. so sort of, her department had some of the same issues that this department has. so it's really helpful for me to engage with chiefs with other cities on how we can problem solve together. >> last week i met with the employees firefighter association and we talked about hiring and i look forward to

working with them in the future on recruitment in the department. today meeting chief, including two resolutions allowing us to work with state and federal agencies to get equipment and apparatus for training purposes. and basically for our own use, not necessarily even just training purposes. chief spoke in front of the budget and finance committee. supervisor ronen, supervisor chan, and supervisor safai, and he did a great job, and it passed out of committee to go to the full board, and i'm not sure when that will happen, but this will enable us to basically get surplus equipment for free. which is really great.

finally i'm happy to report that it is also cd 4 presentation to this board and community. that will conclude my remarks. >> thank you, chief. >> do we have any public comment? >> there is nobody on the public comment line. >> all right. nobody is present from the audience. public comment will be closed. >> chief postel, please join us. >> good evening, president feinstein, commissioners. this is my report for the month of august. we had 15 working fires. 21 water rescues, two cliff rescues.

of those 15 working fires, three were greater alarms. first grade alarm was august 23, 1206 p.m. this is at mcallister and visidero. this was an old church converted into living spaces and apartments. the fire was pretty well advanced upon arrival of the first crews. they had difficulty accessing where the fire was and the doors were boarded up. they had to breach some walls to get water on the fire. because of the advanced fire department arrival, that fire traveled through some pipe chases and eventually got into

the attic spaces. because this was going on, the fire truck arrived at the scene and went to the roof and had to go back down because there was a rescue. that delayed them being able to conduct any roof operations which was also affected some of the complexity of the incident. there was a lot of hidden spaces, boarded up doors. small rooms on the top floor with a five 1/2 foot ceiling with a laundry room in it and giant 8 x 8 foot void space. typical layout of the building didn't exist so we were forced to open the walls in the ceiling and a lot of manual labor to expose

the fires. very laboring work for the crews. the chief was on the roof. the work done by the crews on the roof played a huge role and us being able to take this fire and contain it to that one corner of the building. it traveled vertically and did get to the attic space, but the fact that it didn't run the hallway and didn't take the top of the building off, it was remarkable and they did an outstanding job, and i'm very proud of the work that day. >> august 31st, a second alarm fire, 1216 fitzgerald avenue in hunter's point area. it was a

horder situation, there was fire and plus an rv burning. they had to battle their way into the building. we had to get crews in there. again, crews did an outstanding job. particularly station 17 who was aware of this building in this situation, and they had preplanned to the extent possible how they were going to deal with this fire once they knew it was coming and they were prepared for it. i'm super proud of the work done there. it required a tremendous amount of coordination from the commander to manage lines and different approaches to gain access to the different areas of the fire. you couldn't just lead a hose lineup the stairs and down the hallway to the fire. you had to climb ladders to the back and the excess of storage. great job on that fire as well.

then, later that day, august 31st, also, it was a third alarm at visidero. the chief thompson was at this fire. this fire also had challenges. it was wrapped with scaffolding and which had netting and unable to access the building from the exterior. we had that challenge to begin with. the fire was well advanced upon our arrival on the top floor. this building had multiple stair wells. it had seven or nine separate stair wells of the building. -- you had to do a lot of recon to figure out how to deal with this fire. by the time they get to it, there were narrow stairs, and they got to

the top of these stair wells and pushed to that top floor. directly adjacent to that building to the right of divisadero, we had fire get into the walls and the attic of the shared wall between the two buildings. chief thomson was smart enough to get in there right away and minimize that threat. again, similar to the other third alarm, this fire had tremendous potential to really burn up the vast majority of the building. these crews, under the coordination under chief thomson's leadership were able to really limit the extent of the fire damage to the front half of the top floor only and just very minimal damage in that

exposure building. again, the crews are doing an outstanding job with these incidents. i cannot say enough good things about them. that was our operational events for the month of august. the bureau of fire prevention investigation which you will hear more from chief tonight about the code later on. they conducted a total of 1780 inspections for august, issued 180 ordinance and the fire and safety coordination which is also under his coordination investigated 7 alarm fires and vehicle fires and 775 permits submitted and 684 permits were approved. they continued to work with the mta on the traffic calming and street design

changes that are going on and trying to advocate for the fire safety of the public through that process. at the airport, assistant deputy chief d'arcy, as it happens, today was their annual full scale operational drill. i had a chance to go down and serve that drill. it's the first time i have been to one of these. it was incredibly impressive to see all the different jurisdictions come together at the airport. you had city of san francisco, fire department people. you had the airport fire suppression people and san bruno and san mateo county and sfpd response. and the airport. you had almost

140 people that came from this plane and they had buses to transport all these patients and transported them to area hospitals to san mateo, east bay and transported them to the hospital as if it were really an actual event. that was really impressive. nice to see them that well prepared. in addition to that, they responded to 509 calls for service for the month of august at the airport. they provided fire training to new members and existing members down at the airport. division of training under the assistant chief, the recruit class continues the training. at the end of august, they completed week six through 10 of the academy and have completed week 13 and final week of

testing in the fire curriculum firefighter 1 type of stuff. that class is progressing well. the hybrid west academy will be completed and this is a class of 25 people that will graduate friday. training is now fully staff with h 28 instructors and doing a lot of work to preparing for a lot of upcoming drills and a lot of things we are working on for next spring which will be well received by the people in the field. >> we'll be conducting our semi annual drill october 15th, and have tables set up october 9th and public education for

recruitment. >> this concludes my presentation. >> is there anyone in the public wishing to make public comment? there is nobody in the audience wishing to make public comment. public comment is now closed. >> thank you very much. >> >> i greatly appreciate when you gave your report how descriptive your report is. these greater alarm fires out of the two were near my neighborhood and again, i can hear what i call the longevity of the sirens and in terms of heavy work and i can

see the smoke on the other. i want to acknowledge all the members who fought that fire as well as the command in leadership. chief thomson as well. i want to acknowledge that descripter report and i know i am with the fire department but when it comes to mutual cooperation or mutual jurisdiction, it's pretty amazing as you describe how many entities are involved with the corporation. when you said they took the patients out of the airport to the hospital, you mean they took that drill all the way to the hospital? >> normally they simulate that but the reaction, they

transported them to the hospital as if they were actual patients. >> off that fire that occurred in the western edition, we have scheduled october 26th, wednesday, that there is a recognition for rosa parks and the family members and the community will be here as well. i want to thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> any comments?

>> thank you, president feinstein. i have a couple comments. >> as a new fire commissioner, i want to say that i was at those three alarm fires. i want to thank chief for coming to speak with me after it was mostly knocked down. i didn't realize that was you chief on the roof. they were incredible fires and it was something to see. i was really impressed. just humbled by your work, all of you. thank you. i loved your report, just like my colleague said. it was perfectly delivered and really full of great detail. i thank you for that. that's enough from me, thank

you. >> thank you. >> chief postel? >> all right. chief o'connor, it's your turn. >> good evening president feinstein, commissioners, i'm chief o'connor. i'm here to report from the administration. >> we had our kickoff for fleet week and for the marine and coast guard and to work with first responders from san francisco. at maclaren park. and there was going to be a helicopter, but unfortunately it

was canceled but still a great turn the for those involved. we had active shooter training. and we will have fleet week. under our nert team response, we had training at maclaren park. in person nert classes are finally back. i see patty giving a class in the streets in soma. we had another health and safety wellness coffee with bhu on the 28th on 7th street. we are looking to branch out our chaplain program and we are

trying to get other spiritual leaders involved during times of crisis. we are also looking to form a partnership with the credit union, the local 798 union and the cancer foundation to purchase gear bags for our members. we want to get big duffle bags so they are not transporting dirty equipment in vehicles. we are trying to minimize everyone's exposure. we also purchased 1700 covid test, getting ready for the winter and we are looking for greater coordination with our physicians office. so we are having weekly meetings and stephanie and our counselors and trying to get more data on the number of data we are seeing. we are having a greater presentation for the board of supervisors and the mayor's office going forward with our next budget cycle to justify the expansion of that

unit. we also have chief alba working on that post training protocol. we are trying to get a more accurate assessment of their health and nutritional needs and hydration labels when they are out fighting fires for weeks at a time. from the office of employee health, labeled as the physicians office. we had eight promotional exams, we had 23 probation exams, we had a small surge of covid that abated in august and now we have one per day. we had a vaccine clinic idea at headquarters and we had an occupational training with medicine. and trying to present to the researchers the different

elements that they are facing in a toxic environment and decontaminating members and focus on the overall health after the fire. we had 27 members that randomly testing and all were negative. we had alcohol test and they were all negative and we had training. his associates lieutenant to cover when he is off duty to do the investigative services and testing and training. under support services with chief ramon serano. we are at 95% completion and things are really moving forward with our training facility. we picked the project manager

september 7th and we should have notice receipt going forward in october. we are still doing background check on the program manager. i can't announce his or her name yet. very client oriented, every stage of the process, bringing all the stakeholders together to be sure what we were doing going forward. we were really excited about it. >> we are going to be laying out the property and working with process. >> and inspector was there and bruce jenkins and as well as joaquin torres, our command

staff and filled hundreds of school bags for the academy. these are provided by the sparkle foundation. they issued 4,000 bags for the bay area and we distributed them in august. we had the education and community outreach group. harvest moon festival. we see them reaching out to the community. and we had the police, fire sheriff memorial mass at the cathedral. you can see the command staff and the mayor and the archbishop. i had a video but it won't play. i apologize for that. that was my report for the month of august. >> thank you, chief o'connor.

do we have any public comment? >> there is nobody in our public comment line. >> i don't see any hands in the audience. public comment will be closed. does anyone have questions for chief o'connor? >> thank you, chief. great to hear your report. i have two questions, one is for the chaplain program. are you looking for someone in committee or looking for an actual chaplain to provide service to members? >> both. we are looking across broader nominations. >> you said you were looking for bags, how many? or just on going? >> we are trying to expand to all of our firefighters to get their gear but everyone involved and trying to get from the

different agencies for the supplies going forward. >> okay, so a hundred? >> 1700. >> okay, thank you very much. >> >> thank you very much. one more question. to follow up of commissioner fraser. these bags are a great idea. i'm assuming they are not budgeted and you are looking for funding outside of the department. to determine that, do you have any idea on how you would raise that individual fund on these 1700 bags. is there a campaign or sponsor out there? >> again, it should be a process between the cancer foundation, credit union and the fire local 98. this has been a focus of the cancer foundation of the decontamination of our process.

>> the chaplain of the question or the concept, you are talking about that both in terms of spiritually serving one our department or part of the wellness concept of another entity of expanded resources. >> we consider it as part of our overall wellness program, spiritual and wellness to have spiritual leadership to help our members. >> like the buddhist members of our community as well? >> correct. >> thank you very much for that. >> thank you, vice-president, and thank you chief o'connor.

at this time, making debut in he new role, we would like to welcome deputy chief tong who has been phenomenal and strong in terms of leading ems through a movement of building through skirt and hsoc and everything else. i would like to congratulate you on becoming cd 4 and welcome to your first presentation. >> thank you very much. president feinstein, vice-president nakajo, commissioners, and staff, thank you very much. thank you chief nicholson for

this opportunity. this division i think really acknowledges the importance of ems in community para medicine in this department. i'm very honored to be able to have this position and hopefully moving forward going forward. thank you, chief postel for helping these months. i know when he first started, he wasn't in this but now i'm here to do the reports. chief has been by my side for the last three years really doing all the things that president feinstein you have been talking about in terms of growing this division and being a huge support. he's there is original

originator of ms 6 and i'm happy to have him in this position. >> welcome. >> >> i just wanted to, i will also preface in terms of this position and some of my basic goals, really simply is to continue the work of ems and just really helping us to move forward to provide services to the community as well as really supporting our members who are doing this work. as you know the work of ems on ambulances is just crazy. it's been so difficult. they have been so busy and we really want to start looking out for their health and well-being more so. that's definitely one of the things i want to focus on. and also increasing the understand of community medicine in the department as well as outside the department. it's a new endeavor and

something that there is a lot of eyes on it and we really want to make sure we represent the work that we are going to be doing and are doing to the best of our ability and continuing to tweak it and provide the best services to the community. we want to integrate ems and medicine. i did want to start the presentation. >> so, in the front of your packet is a photo of one of our emt's. i'm hoping with every report i do i will highlight one of the photos that our members take. i want us to be able to for those to spread the word and

help you see a little bit more that we see. >> for the ems division, we had and are in the third hybrid academy. they will be graduating at the end of this week. we started with a class of 29, but a few of them dropped out or weren't able to complete the course. so we look like 25 people that will be graduating. we also during this time had two classes bump up emt's to paramedics. we graduated 14 of them and now they are added onto our group. we are working with another

academy. probably a paramedic and an emt academy, level one and level two academies in february and march. we are thinking about the hybrid model and it doesn't really seem to serve our purposes in getting the training that they need. we are looking at changing that and maybe going back to separate academies for emt's and paramedics. i'm happy to show you this picture. three new ambulances that we had delivered in august. these are a different model than the ones that we previously have purchased in the past even in dphd days. these are ambulances built on a truck chassis and hopefully more durable and more space in the front to be more

comfortable. these three are the first of 14 that we'll be getting in the next 12-18 months. these are considered more or less stock ambulances. we have in the process right now an rfp that have gone out to bid for new vendors for a new ambulance contract. so going forward we will have ambulances built to our specifications, but given our aging fleet, we needed to buy as many ambulances as we could off the shelf. we are very excited about that. >> we average about 340 calls per day. we are going to look at our data better to plan for new changes

whether it's scheduling, the way we deploy our ambulances and how we do the work. we'll be looking at that with more data. i wanted to also let you know that we had an increase in our market share over the past year. we have three providers in san francisco that do ems ambulance work, the fire department, the major player and king american and emr and we share that load with emr. in the past it has been a little bit of a struggle to get the numbers with the percentage of calls, but with the influx, 60 new feat -- f te's and doing a great job of managing the work

load. we had a safe event of a surrender. a mother was able to deliver her child to the fire station and confidently able to hand over the baby and we took the baby to the hospital and the crews performed that service did a fantastic job. now onto community para medicine. august was the first time that we were able to place a 5150 hold. last time the board of supervisors passed a resolution that allows paramedics to place 5150s. it took a while, this past month, we finally got that program operational. the first one happened in august and we expect more to happen this month. as we get the word out and to crews and ambulances, i suspect that number will rise.

the other thing that happened this month is we are switching over to emd, emergency medical dispatching where the calls are now going specifically to our members with sort, street overdosing and street wellness teams. before they were assigning them to incidents and now we are dispatching calls. this has just started. >> i just wanted to show you, we had a summer intern, a recommendation by dr. brook hall, a woman who volunteered with us and worked with the community medicine and paramedic program and through that she was able to identify the barriers and transition where individuals

might leave care. you can see this whole chart. i tried to print it out and still couldn't read the words. >> if you wanted to see this, you will see how this interacted throughout their journey. >> >> then just some highlights of the community paramedic division. moving to the emd i have spoken about, we have reduced a number of unable to locate people of incidents from 36% to 15% which is significant. the street teams also engaged over 11 hundred individuals which is definitely a lot higher, much higher than the 754 one thing i also wanted to point

out to people is the means of having an engaged individual. when we come across somebody who has been identified as needing help or we come upon them or inquire as to whether they need help, the assessment and the discussions that happened with them are pretty detailed and that's a lot of the training that the paramedics do. we can't always convince somebody even in our opinion they would be better served in other resources and other places. if they have a choice, if they are not disabled, if they don't meet that 5150 criteria, they can choose to stay. i think that is something that is important for everyone to understand. it's not quite as easy as identifying somebody who you believe needs some assistance. if they don't want it and they present in the way that they can maintain and operate in the community, then we do leave them there.

and then though we have had 29% that have been transported from the scene to appropriate care. that's one out of four encounters which is also significant. so that is basically my report. if there is any additional information you would like to see, please let me know and we'll try to incorporate some of that too. thank you. >> thank you, chief tong. questions, comments? >> public comment, sorry. >> there is nobody on the public comment line. >> all right. there is no public comment in the audience. so public comment will be closed. >> vice-president ?

>> thank you very much, omaha # -- madam president. >> i have been taking notes and i tried to get the detail of this report. i will get to it. my main issue, the words that come to my mind is how wonderful it is to be able to have this detailed report by the chief and your appointment and congratulations to your appointment in cd 4. because this detailed nature of it and again, i'm going to refer in this report, that generally

this division paramedic as well as >> if i didn't get this report, i wouldn't hear about the ability to have level one and two with courses and with the emt's and paramedics and how great it is for the department to have these kind of trainings sessions so that our members can have the opportunity in-house. that's a big deal. again, having been with some longevity within the department in terms of how it is. also it's great that with your

emt's were out to bid and customize ambulances. i have been around for a while and it's been a long time that i have heard that and it's been achievable and something we wanted to get and it is a big deal to customize ambulances to our uses, to our knowledge base. it's also impressive and we used to hear this a lot of the market share percentage. it took me a long time to try to understand that between the other ambulance services in our department. we used to look at that number. and to have that come back at 85% share of our market, is significant as well as the hiring of the members to be able to increase and be comprehensive. to me these are all big deals.

first time i have heard about a baby being delivered in safe shelter. significant. does it hit the headlines, the chronicle, but it's significant. i like your format. realizing that it's your first time in your format. i like your format because it presents in clarity to necessity with -- especially with ems and para medicine. there were reports, last one by ems captain mill wood and reminds me of what they are. it takes a while, but these teams, sort overdose team, wellness

response team, tenderloin command center. i'm talking always about our department. but when the reports are dpw participates mta police department, san francisco, i don't know -- maybe i have heard it. so what is -- >> homeless outreach team. >> what is fest? >> >> it's an outreach team contracted by the department of health by the felton institute. similar to the hot team. >> okay, because for myself in terms of an i make remarks is to

how responsive we are to the department and to have the intern present. this is an intern and i have worked with interns all my life. this is a prison. wow, what an intern with the data that we can use. everything this this report reinforces to my staff and colleagues in this commission how much great work is going on out there. i can see now how it makes sense to talk about this area as well. so i can take a breath between reports. on the field i always think about reports and the first thing he does is he stays in the cabin and he gives you his

report. it's a wonderful thing to be able to see something in implementational format and see it be operational. i wanted to thank you for this report and tell you how well it stood out in terms of process and procedure. >> thank you. >> congratulations, chief tong. it's a wonderful thing and a great report. all around everything that my fellow commissioner has said, i agree with. it's a really good report. and oddly enough. i just came off ems 5, which was great and we had several encounters with two of the skirt teams, and i just want to mention that

there were two people on the street that we were thinking of. we were able to help and deliver one of the resources in the community. the second person was one of those people who was extremely young and right on the edge of greatly disabled and his sister was on the sidewalk pleading, pleasing with the pra medicine asking for help and then it was okay and it was a no go and we are not arresting people and we can't detain people and i want to acknowledge the difficulty for the staff on the street when they are in that moment and they just have to walk away. it's really hard, really really hard. the sister who was so upset with the paramedic who handled it beautifully i thought. because

she's just at the edge of her rope too. so it's a very tough job. and i'm happy that you are going to be giving us these report every month. i will look forward to learning more about it. also congratulations on all the new class of 25 that you've added. i know it's needed. so thank you. >> thanks. >> i actually have a few questions for you chief tong. they just were coming to me as i was listening to your colleagues make their presentations, and to me, community para medicine was a whole new concept. i had never heard anything about it. i had read an article a couple years ago about seattle, and some other places, but not in any great detail.

and your reports, i will echo your comments, your reports has given us great detail on what is going on with para medicine and which unit is doing what and how. they are sort of random questions i have and probably asking too much of one department, and i refer to the whole department when i bring this up, but when we heard the report from chief postel on the horder on fitzgerald. we know hoarding is a pretty severely case of mental illness. is there any cross over or anything that

we can offer and i'm not suggesting the fire department can solve all the world's problems, but whoever this person was and i don't know if they were in the premises, not in the premises, i don't know anything about them, but is there any way there is overlap for them to get services. i'm sure they lost their home which i believe i'm correct that they did. the red cross comes, but i'm just wondering whether there is a nexus that we should aim for. it may be too much. i'm just curious as to your thoughts and opinions on that? >> >> i probably have some initial thoughts that i'm not ready to speak about because i'm still trying to form it. we do often

go into locations in people's residences where there is hoarding going on and sometimes it comes to the attention of the fire marshall and fire prevention as they try to address some of those situations especially when there is access issues, things like that. if it's just in somebody's personal home, whether or not there is a caregiver or another person who is responsible for that and not just the individual but maybe a caregiver is not taking care of a family member and we can call adult protective services for some of those situations. i would refer to chief to speak about that. we do get calls to some of those locations if there is something that we can do from the community paramedic's point of view. would you like him to address that? >> would you like to do that chief? >> if the question is how could

community para medicine help alleviate hoarding and maybe prevent fires from occurring, we have to be invited to the house first. if the person is a 911 utilizer, you are right, the person is hoarding and we can try to connect them to mental health providers. we have done that quite a lot because especially if someone is renting, they often are evicted because of the hoarding. that is something that is we engage in and is very challenging and difficult. >> i understand. and it's just, it seems like we have a number of different

divisions that are dealing with the same problem and kind of coming at it at different angles. to the extent that you are working on it, and hopefully prevent like what happened as the fire on fitzgerald. thank you for that. >> my next question is a technical one and it may seem somewhat dumb, but the pictures of the new ambulances, they look much bigger than our current ambulances. is that just the picture? >> they are just a little bit bigger. the cab has more room and a little bit longer, but in terms of the box and the width

is the basic same size that we use. it's the size of the chassis that sticks out a little bit more. >> what about the maneuverablity? >> i have not driven one. >> i saw one on a slow street where a more permanent barrier had been erected, and i will tell you whoever was driving this truck and whoever was the tiller person did yoman's work getting the truck around this structure. i mean they were backing up and going forward and

that truck was bending in directions i didn't know a truck could bend. it was really concerning to me. people were actually, i was in a regular car, and other people on regular cars, we were all trying to get out of the way. but you had to really get, it wasn't just a matter of the pulling to the right. you had to give them free lanes to get past this barriers. i just want to make sure our ambulances are going to have the access, not be so big that they can't have the access. >> i'm going to continue to bring up these barriers until they are in compliance with what mta says they are supposed to be because there doesn't seem to be any enforcement going on in

regard to illegal barriers. so that's why i was asking about the ambulance and went off on the truck. i have got to commend. i wish i had gotten a number of the truck because the folks in that truck, they got it through. i don't know if it got smashed at all. i don't think so. i probably would have noticed that. it was a fire. and they just did an incredible job. as a know the ambulance drivers have to navigate the streets. >> we were making sure they would be comparable to what we have and provide more comfort and more maneuver ability and

longevity. >> i'm sure the folks in your new promotion and the existing positions are going to appreciate that. thank you and welcome cd 4. >> thank you very much. >> >> item 8. 8. amendments to the fire code [discussion and possible action] discussion and possible action to recommend that the board of supervisors approve a proposed ordinance enacting 2019 amendments to the san francisco fire code. consistent with prior fire code amendments, occurring on a 3-year cycle, as required by state law, the proposed ordinance would repeal the existing 2019 san francisco fire code and adopt the 2022 california fire code and 2021 international fire code, together with san francisco-specific amendments. - accompanying materials: o proposed ordinance o draft legislative digest o chart of findings supporting san francisco-specific amendments to california fire

>> there is no public comment. >> >> public comment is closed. >> >> great. >> we are going to start with a new san francisco fire code. we are going to start with how is a fire code developed and do we have to do it every three years. >> you can see in the picture there, we learn by mistake. that's how the fire code develops when an incident happens or something bad happens and how to not let it happen again.

you have been providing documents to the board of supervisors which is a proposed ordinance, legislative digest which is a quick summary of it and then exhibit a, a standard findings of the amendment which we have to report to the california standards commission why we are changing the code. we start with first the 2019 codes that is developed from the 2018 code the california fire code and the san francisco fire code and we throw it out the door and start from scratch all over again. so, this is where it all starts. this is the international fire code. so the international code is developed by icc which is a private entity made by memberships by the fire department throughout the country with legislative

stakeholders altogether and try to improve it based on what happened. they book the international fire code in 2021 and puts entirely into the california fire code. so that is pretty much a reprint of what's in here. the difference is the state doesn't actually have to adopt everything. so they take the inc, cfc, the california fire code. california adopts some sessions and modify some sections and they leave other sections to other jurisdictions. some may work here and other places. they leave that to us and that's where we come in. we could either adopt, we have to adopt what the state adopts

or make it more restrictive, or we can adopt parts of the international fire code. so this was what it says. we incorporate, we take the california fire code, the international fire code, we take what we want out of it and it has been adopted by the case and come up with more requirements and then with that comes the san francisco fire code. so now we get highlights. i'm only going to present to you what has been added since the last code. this is my only third code that i have helped to write and develop and during my fire prevention. these are the highlights. adding operational permits, adding safety requirements for

vendor carts. requirements for roofs and locked doors, certification, emergency radio systems, sprinkler systems. requirements for temporary construction, wood frame buildings. so the first one, we added three permits, one for mobile food vendor carts and we have had some problems with the hotdog carts and the board of supervisors created some legislation, even after s. b. 946, it says the fire department must approve those and we had to create some parameters for what we are looking for. and we have mobile fueling location. to fuel your vehicle.

we allow for fleets for a certain location. we created permits that you can fuel here in this parking lot if you meet these requirements and the last one being emergency responder communication. since we are required to do annual high rise checks yearly, but we need to get back to check they are getting checked annually and now that they have a permit, we are able to go back to make sure they are being maintained. they are being used by the fire department, sheriff, ems, every organization is using this system. other things we are looking for when we are adding the permits

and maximum amount of fuel one tanning as you have at home. use of appliance in the proper manner. you can see from the right, a video taken from channeling 7 where the butane container blew up with the tourist buying a hotdog and required to have gas shutoffs. that's it. that's so we have a way to inspect these carts. next is access to roofs. they have a door that goes through the roof. they have a penthouse on it. many buildings have locked those

doors. and we have to make sure the roofs you can go up and down and they need to have these if they are locked, they need to be sure someone from the station can unlock it. if the power goes out, the door unlocks. worse case scenario, if that doesn't work, there is a call wait button and you can call someone to unlock the door and the final one is a palm button you hit that will unlock the door but will also sound and alarm. we found that if you want to lock it, but you need to do these things to unlock the door. you can't keep it locked at the top

of the stairs. >> for communication systems, we found they went from analog to digital in the city. there were over 200 systems that had to be upgraded which brought in some companies that haven't really done much and they were not really proficient at it, we found out. so we discussed with radio shop and dt that it would be best if we can offer a program that have qualified businesses working on these systems. you created a program where you actually certified the companies to maintain the documents, meet minimum standards, so therefore we have systems we can count on. so we've added that to our code. for existing new businesses, we have to get that from the start to get the job signed off. or the existing systems have a time

frame of 6-9 months over the next year. we'll start first with the high rises which shouldn't be a problem because many of them use a reputable company and the smaller ones with low rise buildings that were required to put one in will have one in the september 1st to become certified. we've also adopted, in the california fire code and international fire code, it's lives in here for existing buildings they can do an upgrade to sprinkler buildings. high rises built before 1975 were not required to have sprinkler systems and many did not. the city had legislation over the last 20 years where commercial buildings had to upgrade and add spring clears to their --

buildings and as the board heard here, that was asking for the same thing. since it's already in the code cycle, we decided to adopt it here. this requires every building over 120 feet to put sprinklers in, approximately 10 stories unless they meet this particular height. 8-10 stories, the owner has the whole floor, if you go down to the street and they have a fire alarm system with smoke detection, mechanical rooms, telephone rooms, lobbies, corridors. if you have that, then you are not required to.

there are approximately 135 that we've kind of tagged as going to have to upgrade. there may be up to a maximum of 20 buildings that may not have the sprinkler because they have maintained these requirements. we've also placed in the code and this is to local because we also have a lot of restrictions when it comes to how much space we have in these buildings. one thing normally in a new high rise it requires to have two fire pumps, to water sources coming into the building depending on the height of the building and supposed to have a double connection where the system is looped. that has been waived for these because it's going to be difficult for many buildings to comply with it. this is what you do with a new building. it's hard to get a

fire pump in there and get a secondary water source and very cost prohibitive. while they are nice to have in many buildings, asking someone to do this in a building, this is where the fire department can add suppression and adding water. a secondary pump will be redundant and that will be that second pump for them. this is proposed in the land use committee. we are asking the first step is within the first three years, they come up with sprinklers, they find a company, get a quote, with the hoa, whatever else. capital cost or upgrades, they submit a plan and put sprinklers in their

building. they have three years to do that. this is 120 buildings. they have 3 years to get this done. over the next three years, they have a chance to work with the water department, puc, to get water supply from the street into their building. that will be taking some time. currently right now when you apply for a new water meter for spri sprinklers, it can take between 4-6 months and then they can get with the tenant to run the pipes for the sprinkler. this will be a long program, ten years to allow them to comply. >> one of the last things, a lot of this came out when

construction fires, where wood frame buildings were going on fire and we needed to figure out a way to pretty much early warning. currently right now, they have to have access to the road. fire extinguishers located throughout. if an sf system is nearby, it needs to be approved to service this building, they need to have signage in place to show the fire department. if you go down a construction site, they have this sign and they will know exactly where it is. that's the minimum requirement. we've added to it where the state is going is to have a temporary fire alarm system. you see those yellow boxes where they can stick them throughout the occupancy and when the smoke

detecter goes off to go to the cellular and let them know that something is happening in the building because the fire alarm is not complete. they can complete this early on to let them know there is some smoke, something happening and there is some pool stations and if the workers see something early on, they can pull it and activate the alarm system and move on. that's all that's being added to the in you -- new code. the highlights. some fee increases in the budget cycle. the final piece of the puzzle will be administrative

bulletins. sometimes we take different sections of the code and help the applicant apply different things that apply. if you put in a fire large in and required to have communication and radio communications and required to have elevator recalls. we put it in the bulletin so they can read this and know what to put in. so to submit bulletins to you after going to a public hearing, after 30 days of being posted from public comment, at that point, this body here puts them in the fire code. that will be coming a little bit later. those are still being developed based on some of the things we put on the code now. >> that's the end of my presentation. >> thank you very much. that was a hefty presentation.

>> any questions or comments? >>vice-president stephen nakajo: thank you very much madam president. thank you very much. i very much appreciate this and your presentation is very comprehensive. i am very pleased and ready to support this madam president but i will wait for yourself and commissioner fraser to ask any questions. >> commissioner marcy fraser: thank you very much for your presentation. here is my question. i entads everything is a -- i

understand everything is a negotiation. how did you come to ten years? ten years is a generous amount of time for me. that's one question. the second one, i understand the issue about the hotdog cart. what about i call them barns, the temporary structures outside of the restaurants. >> shared spaces. >> okay, shared barns, are they covered and how they might be, your thought. >> to answer your first question regarding the ten years. well, it does seem like a long time. the original legislation had it down to six years, two, two, two. having worked on the previous commercial sprinkler, that program was initially 12 years,

and even then some buildings didn't comply. i don't know if that was by choice or they just had a problem with it. there were many more buildings involved than currently. knowing how long it takes to get a water supply in these current days and how long it takes to hire a contractor to actually go by your building to give you a quote to come to an agreement to draw up the plans because they have to get into all the units and spaces and to finally get to that point and submit them, i think ten years is appropriate. the model code, international code talks about 12 years. i agree, i thought 12 years is a little extreme. the fewer numbers that we have for this cycle last time, i think ten years was about appropriate. it comes down to the first three years to get the contractor with

the plans to get them submitted and for the water supply. some of them have to move tenants around into another unit and do this shuffle by floor could take some time. the idea was not to overburden a building on this. it's been many years. some of these buildings have gone 80 years without them. we want compliance and i wish i can make them happen faster but i think ten years is enough time. when it comes to shared spaces, that's new territory in front of the barn. talking about having a building in front of it and when buildings are constructed they take into consideration access and distance to the center of the street and property lines. we do what we can to adapt what's in the code, how our

operations divisions and suppressions divisions operate to come up with regulations for it. we've been part of the discussion when it comes to sf mta and dpw and the shared guidelines. what you see now are different than april 1st. you will be able to see spacing and through them and setbacks. all of those things that we need to operate will be much better but is still seven months out. >> thank you for that. as just as a regular pedestrian, i noticed that a lot of the shared spaces are very close. it's not a lot of room between the sheriff space and the actual structure building. i can imagine that for the members of

the fire department, this is a challenge or could be a pretty serious challenge in some instances. i'm wondering if they are required to have any kind of attachment to sprinkler or permanent section. >> we are going to be working with the program along applications by november 1st. two separate shared spaces will be separated by six feet to come through, ladders, post, lots of people. if they do take up two parking places which are supposed to be their maximum, then they require a three foot opening at the top. at a minimum, think of cars being parked. every three feet you have three feet or six feet. if a sidewalk is 10 feet or less, they don't have a roof because we can't get the angle of the ladder access and can't

get over the sidewalk. we have taken that into consideration which will be great that everyone complies by april 1st. >> i understand that they are doing everything they can. i'm not trying to be harsh. we are not waiting until april for these. if they are too close and preventing our operations, we are actually addressing those issues right now with them along with dpw. >> just a couple comments and a question. i'm really glad that you are the one that has to read the international code and the state fire code. and i appreciate the synopsis that you put together for us, because you condensed it very well and focused on that

which we really needed to know. i hope never to open that icu book, never. >> that's what you will get for christmas. [ laughter ] >> i also have a question, just following up on commissioner fraser's comments. i have noticed a lot of abandoned shared spaces, and they are abandoned. the restaurants closed and they are just sitting there. who has jurisdiction to have them removed? >> dpw. department of public works as their space. there is not a program in place. they don't have a fork-lift or truck to move them. they are working to move them. they are just not

there anymore and trying to find a way to remove them. >> can someone cite them to remove them because they are a hazard. >> dpw has their own rules, yes, they have a way to cite them and way to escalate that. but to get money out of a business is very difficult. that's what's happening and those people have disappeared. we have a problem is we can't penalize the building owner because it's not their space, it's the department of public works's space. if i started a business in that building and i don't own that and i put the the shared space in front and i leave, the building owner is not responsible for the street space. you feel it's only dpw. it's their space. >> thank you. very interesting.y

dpw. it's their space. >> thank you. very interesting. >> any further questions? >> madam president, if you are ready for adoption. is this an action item, adoption. >> madam president, i would like to move this to adoption, please. >> >> president katherine feinstein: all right. thank you very much. has it been seconded? >> i second it. >> all right. i support the adoption. >> the motion is unanimous. >> thank you very much. >> it was very interesting to learn about how complicated it is. item 9. adjournment.

>> so moved.. >> all right. >> seconded. >> all right. i vote to adjourn. >> the meeting is adjourned at 6:39. >> >> >> >>

>> today's special guest michelle ginsberg. >> i'm chris and you are watching san francisco riegz the show that focused on reguilding and reimagining our city our guest is the general manager of the san francisco rec and parks, with us to talk about new parks,

music and other developments. mr. ginsberg, welcome. >> thank you a pleasure to be here >> nice to see you again. >> last time was during the pandemic and virtual. so it is good to be back here. >> indeed. before we get in specifics, let's start with a broad question, how can will park's system play a part in the economic recovery? >> well, our parks system playing an important role throughout the pandemic. parks were here when people in san francisco needed them the most. a place where people could gather and could care for mentality health and fizz cat health and have a sense of community and a sense of place during a really weird time. and now that things are reopening and figure out how to recover, parks are going to continue to play a significant

role >> people are out and having a good time. there are special events happening in parks. concerts and the weather is good. the best way parks play a role in our economic recovery is to motivate -- people to come to our city from other places and to motivate our residents to get out and enjoy themselves >> exciting to her we opened a new park and there is another. what is special about the 2 new projects? >> sure. san francisco is going through, i think, a park renaissance. we opened the francisco park, which is just magnificent property that sits on top of an old reservoir dating back to the gold rush and has tremendous views of the golden gate bridge and bay and a place where you can bring kids. a cool play ground to bring dogs

an amazing dog park. a meadow to watch the fireworks. fog willing. fleet week, community gardens, it is just such an incredible unique space. we are proud of it. >> and then right down the road in a few years, we will be pleased to welcome everybody to india basin in the bay view in the southeast part along the southern water front. 1.7 miles of waterfront that until recently has been under utilized and under fulfill in the a community this needs it the most. india basin is really a feel moment for the bay view and southeastern part of san francisco. it is going to be san francisco's next great and one of the most important parks >> that's fantastic.

now, we have a great history of having conference in parks. can you touch on the year's highlights? >> upcoming and on going. this is something i'm particularly excited about. i don't think there is ever have been more music in san francisco parks than there is right now >> so, let's go around the city and talk about music. stern grove, is in the 85th concert season. back after the pandemic. in this just fabulously treasured meadow. free concerts all summer long. in golden gate park, at the man shell not guilty music concourse free concerts 4 days a week. wednesday, friday, saturday and sundays. we have sing are song writer wednesday. jazz and seoul on friday. communities performances on saturdays of different kindses and sundays reggae it is

extraordinary. and of course, later this summer we are pleased to welcome back outside lands for an exciting 3 days and 3 nights of incredible concerts and food and community. as we go across the city, we got wonderful performances in the jerry theatre in mc clarnin park a special jerry day coming back to the theatre. on june 21st we had make music day appearing all over the city in park in civic center. on the marina green. again in golden gate park. it has been a great time for music and ties into the recovery and the tremendous energy where we are feeling and -- you know anybody who says san francisco is struggling needs to hang out in the park system. where well is joy and beaut and

he inspiration every day. >> so, the san francisco board of supervisors passed legislation to make jfk drive in will golden gate park car free. how have residents responds. >> the san francisco residents responds positive. families. bicyclists, joggers, people with dogs and people from every corner of san francisco have discovered that jfk promenade is a treasure. it enhances the parks so much. imagine a beautiful day in the park and weather on foot or on bike you are strolling down jfk, you pass sixth avenue and head to the music concourse for a concert or the museum; it is joyous and made golden gate park sproord. i have been hering about disk

golf and pickle ball. can you tell us about and where people can practice and play. >> i knew you were going. pickle ball the fastest growing sports. you know across between 10 and is ping pong and may be with a whiffle ball. ping pong on a life sized course it is easy to learn about skill based people who are good are irrelevant good and it is easy to play. it is fun and accessible. we are trying to accommodate sport. we have over 55 courts around san francisco. 11 dedicated just for pickle balt others per pickle ball and tennis. we have 5 or 10 space you can play pickle ball indoors and keeping up with the tremendous popularity of the sport. disk golf has a loyal following it is also going to continue to

growch we opened our first disk golf course in golden gate park in 2005. and you know, whether you are an expert at disk golf or beginner, the idea of chucking a frisbee through the beautiful park and. it does not matter what you score t. is just a good excuse to be outside and enjoy a beautiful day in nature. >> exactly. well, thank you. i really appreciate you coming on the show, thank you for the time you have given us tuesday. >> thank you, i hope everybody enjoys summer. get out and play in san francisco's parks. >> thanks again. that's it for this episode we will back with another shortly you have been watching san francisco rising i'm chris manners, thanks forrrrrrrrrrrrrr

shop and dine on the 49 promotes local businesses and challenges residents to do shopping and dining within the 49 square miles of san francisco by supporting local services within neighborhood. we help san francisco remain unique, successful and vibrant.

where will you shop and dine in the 49? san francisco owes the charm to the unique character of the neighborhood comer hall district. each corridor has its own personality. our neighborhoods are the engine of the city. >> you are putting money and support back to the community you live in and you are helping small businesses grow. >> it is more environmentally friendly. >> shopping local is very important. i have had relationships with my local growers for 30 years. by shopping here and supporting us locally, you are also supporting the growers of the flowers, they are fresh and they have a price point that is not

imported. it is really good for everybody. >> shopping locally is crucial. without that support, small business can't survive, and if we lose small business, that diversity goes away, and, you know, it would be a shame to see that become a thing of the past. >> it is important to dine and shop locally. it allows us to maintain traditions. it makes the neighborhood. >> i think san francisco should shop local as much as they can. the retail marketplace is changes. we are trying to have people on the floor who can talk to you and help you with products you are interested in buying, and help you with exploration to try things you have never had

before. >> the fish business, you think it is a piece of fish and fisherman. there are a lot of people working in the fish business, between wholesalers and fishermen and bait and tackle. at the retail end, we about a lot of people and it is good for everybody. >> shopping and dining locally is so important to the community because it brings a tighter fabric to the community and allows the business owners to thrive in the community. we see more small businesses going away. we need to shop locally to keep the small business alive in san francisco. >> shop and dine in the 49 is a cool initiative. you can see the banners in the

streets around town. it is great. anything that can showcase and legitimize small businesses is a wonderful thing.

>> test, test. perfect. there we go. [laughter] all right. happy monday, everybody. i would like to welcome everybody to tonight's regularly scheduled sheriff's department oversight board meeting. today is monday, september 26th and we're getting started at 5:32. on behalf of the sheriff's department over side board we like to thank the staff at sfgov tv for providing broadcast and method vating

tonight's meeting -- moderating tonight's meeting and colleagues, please stand and we'll recite the pledge after allegiance. ["pledge of allegiance"] >> thank you for that. dan, let's call the first agenda item. actually, if we would like to make an amendment, colleagues, if you don't mind, to the agenda, i would like to move item 7 to item no. 2 now that we have a full amount of folks tonight, i think it would behoove us to nominations of officers early on if folks are okay with that? >> yes. >> do i need to make a motion on that? >> no. >> okay. we'll move it. okay. so, with that, dan, let's call

item no. one, please. >> thank you, president. calling item no. one, roll call and informational item. member afuhaamango? >> present. >> member afuhaamango is present. president brookter? >> present. >> president brookter is present. member carrion? >> present. >> member carrion is present. member palmer? >> present. >> member palmer is present. member nguyen? >> present. >> member nguyen is present. >> member soo? >> present. >> member soo is present. >> member wetchter? >> present. >> we have a quorum. >> given that member carrion and member palmer, this is your first meeting with us here live, would either of you like to give introductions on yourselves? i know when you got an opportunity to call in, you did but now we get to see your beautiful bright smiling faces and now if you would like to do introductions,

you can. i'll give it over to member carrion. >> it's an honor to be here and serve and be present and really talk about the things that we can do to improve our sheriff's department and really facilitate transparency and accountability. i'm very excited to be able to lend my expertise as well as to provide you know, clear woman of color representation on this board and be active in those communities and thank you all so much and i'm looking forward to working with each of you to do important work. >> likewise, thank you so much for being here, member carrion. member palmer. >> hello, my name is william palmer. it's good to be here and this is a surreal moment. not too long ago i was sitting on a bunk. [laughter] and i could never imagine this in a million years but i would love to give my expertise as knowing the system from the inside out, working closely with

the sheriff's department on the inside and the outside. and make sure that we have an oversight board that makes our city safe and secure and all representatives are represented fairly. >> i appreciate that, member palmer and looking forward to leaning in with you on that area of expertise. so, with that, my fellow colleagues, you got the opportunity to speak last month so we'll open things up for public comment before we move on to the next line item. >> for members of the public, you may view this meeting on web x on cable channel 26. at this time, the public is welcome to address the board for up to two minutes online item one. comments are opportunities to speak during the public comment period are available for members of the public who are present by lining up at the podium or those not present by calling by phone, calling 4156550001 tell and

access code, 24946776879 and press pound and pound again to join as a participant and you'll hear a beep when you have entered the public meeting. press star three and this will advise the moderator you wish to speak and add you to the queue. when you hear the moderator say, good evening, caller, you have two minutes. this is your opportunity to make public comment. you will have two minutes to provide your comments. once your two minutes ended, you'll move out of the queue and listening as a participant in the meeting unless you decide to disconnect. members of the public may stay on the meeting and listen for when another line item comes up and press star three to be added back into the queue to speak on another line item. it -- it

looks like we have no public comment. >> thank you, dan. welcome again member carrion and member palmer. let's go to the next line item, please. >> president, did you say you wanted to move line 7 up? >> correct. >> calling line item no. two, nomination and election of officers (discussion and possible action item) further discussion and possible election of officers to preside over the board. >> and thank you for voting me as a pro tem and it was a conversation we had last month and we want to wait until we have all members here in order to officially do things the right way so are there nominations for the presidency? >> before we move to the nominations, is it possible to kind of get a roll call of who

is running for each office, um, position and why? i know we did it over e-mail but it's helpful to refresh. >> is that something we can do, noeks that want to -- folks that want to -- there's nominations made and those can give -- >> yes, the way it works when you don't have anything set out in your rules, typically what bodies do is they first take public comment on the agenda item. >> okay. >> this is not how you have to do it but how it's often done. then the presiding officer request nomination from the office from the members and you don't need a second. when no additional nominations are offered, the presiding officer closes the nomination and then the commission votes on the nominations in the order in which they were received and the first candidate to receive a majority of the votes is elected to the office but there's nothing that prevents you from taking a couple of minutes and expressing your interest. i think that's what i'm hearing,

people can say whether they are interested and i don't see why you can't do that. >> absolutely. so, we'll take comments from any members who are interested in the presidency. the floor is open. member wetchter >> yes, thank you. i had, i had a short blurb five weeks ago as my interest, as many of you know, i have worked in the field for oversight for a long time and a campaign for the creation of san francisco's office of citizen's comment and now the police accountability and i worked there from 1983 to 1984 and returned and worked there for almost 19 years and i worked for an investigator for 43 years in the criminal legal department for most of that time. oversight is the great passion of my professional life. it's what i dedicated a tremendous amount of my time and energy to, not just

in my paid work but through volunteer work for the national association for civilian oversight of law enforcement. i served on their board of directors for 7 years. been involved with the organization for 20 years and at their meeting two weeks ago, was elected again to their board, so i'm continuing to make contributions to that. i'm seeking presidency for the same reason. i worked on a small crafted language of the charter amend; campaigned for its passage and then applied for a board of supervisors appointment because this is incredibly important work to me much it's the main focus of my life and i think given my experiences and knowledge in this particular area, i can be most useful to this board in the position of president particularly during its formative first year when it will make some critical

decisions appointing an inspector general and establishing oversight for the sheriff's department. i'm someone who values collaboration more than hierarchy and that's why the draft rules of order, i sent dan, which i think you have, the responsibility of setting the agenda should be collaborative between the president and vice-president and you want to bring in many voices as possible. i think the strength of any organization, any team and i think we can look at this as a team, i hope, is the diversity of the experiences and perspectives of its members and we have tremendous diversity in that area and i'm very, very proud of that. so i want to bring that out as much as possible, be as inclusive as possible, share as much as possible and that's reflected in

the fact that, i asked dan to send you information about oversight about the opportunity to apply for the scholarship to the (indiscernible) conference which julie did apply for and i was happy to see her at the conference and variance your events and oversight so i want to bring that -- bring in sharing that collaboration in that position. so that's why i'm seeking that. >> thank you for that member wetchter. my other colleagues, the floor is open. >> thank you, commissioner brookter. i too, have put my name in as president. i most recently served for 12 years as a commissioner for the san francisco commission on the status of women. i'm a fourth generation san franciscan and because of that, i'm very immersed in the community and i believe in community collaborations, community hearings. on the commission, on the status of women, we did work with the criminal justice system and also very closely with the

sheriff's department, adult probation and i'm particularly proud of the rally family visitation services that was promoted through the san francis memorial hospital and i was on the bore of saint francis for nine years but that encourages relationships with fathers who may have been incarcerated because of domestic violence and encourage relationships with their children. and we put together a lot of reports, so dashboards and data, my academic training is at the mathematician under graduate from uc berkeley and pure math statistics that will masters and apply mathematics of -- so i bring a lot of diverse experiences, academic ly and i'm familiar with the "brown act" and

sunshine ordinance so i believe in collaboration but i want to make sure that we remember that we act as an entire body and that means that no individual commissioner goes out to do things that might mistakenly be representative of the entire commission without acknowledging the commission. i think it's important when we are establishing the inspector general position that we do have some input from the community but also it's an unbiased means of doing so. i was glad to go to the conference and i was glad to see director henderson and am i didn't expect to see there. i served for almost that years on the california democratic party executive board. i'm still a lead cochair of the pot from committee. i'm proud of the work we have did especially with our criminal justice plank and doug

case who served with nackle for a while, and he's on the san diego police commission and he's my designee for the criminal justice plank chair so we've worked very collaboratively, the most important thing we tried to eliminate choke holds and i think we've always been (indiscernible) when the pot from committee because when we put something in the pot form, that means it actually becomes law or it goes to the ballot box. i also am active with the asian national pacific bar and i have been on the civil rights bar and the asian commission bar so i think it brings a lot of areas of expertise as well as collaboration within the community, so thank you very much for your consideration. >> no, thank you. any other colleagues? seeing none, i want to thank both for your commitment to the city and

county of san francisco, to this oversight board and i think you both bring a wealth of knowledge so i think with dan, we can go ahead and open it up to public comment for the two individuals that have put their name in a hat for presidency. >> thank you, president brookter. for members of the public who would like to make public comment online item no. two, if you're present, please line up at the podium. otherwise, please call 415-655-0001 and enter access code, 24946776879. press three to raise your hand to be added to the queue. we have no public

comment. >> all right, thank you for that dan. seeing that, we have two names of the individuals who put their name in the hat. gena, how do we need to -- >> someone needs to make a motion. >> okay. >> and another motion. [mic is off] >> make a motion, okay. so colleagues, do we have a motion for either member wetchter or member soo? >> i move to nominate jason wetchter. >> i second. >> so then we go to your vote. is there other nominations that need to be made -- >> you would vote in the order in which the nominations are received and the first person that gets four votes (indiscernible). >> okay. any other nominations? >> i like to nominate julie soo

for nomination? >> are we doing vice-president and president? oh, we were doing president first and then vice-president. my apologies, colleagues on that. there's two nominations. two motions. one for member wetchter and one for member soo. i'm going to the vote on member wetchter. >> i believe there's a point of clarification. i believe the second motion was for vice-president for soo. >> is that what it was michael? >> i was nominating board member soo for vice-president. >> for vice-president, okay. i didn't hear that. >> oh. >> we're doing president first. >> so right now there's a motion on the floor for member wetchter. are there any other motions? >> yes. i move to nominate julie soo for president. >> so there's been two motions put on the floor and the first

one for member wetchter. so, dan -- i'm going to vote for wetchter as well. nominations, it's closed. >> then you vote. >> member wetchter, correct. >> [mic is off] >> and the first one who gets four votes -- >> correct. can we go with member wetchter and we'll do roll call. >> yes, president brookter. member afuhaamango, how do you vote? >> i'm voting for wetchter. >> president brookter? >> no. >> his nomination -- [mic is off] >> member carrion? >> no. >> member palmer?

>> yes. >> member nguyen? >> yes. >> member soo is this >> no. >> member wetchter? >> yes. >> it's four yeses. >> so we have four yeses. congratulations, president wetchter. >> thank you very much and thank you to my colleagues. obviously, i have a lot to learn but i know i have a lot of great resources in the six of you and i'll do my best to live up to the expectation of this office both from the city and from you, my colleagues. >> for sure. >> roll call -- vice-president. >> oh, yes. >> it's okay. >> we call nominations for

vice-president. >> i guess we'll hear from anybody that wants to be a vice-president first, right? so, board member palmer and i would like to be nominated for vice-president. as 17 i was incarcerated in riverside and they decided to say i was amenable and i was ay literate dry belt and i knew education was my key to not only freedom but rough return to the character to which my family raised me to be so at age 45 i saw myself going to die in f- i didn't get out of prison and i studied law from the great men who fought for other people's freedom. i was successful in gaining my freedom and changed the sb260 laws for youth offenders and i released myself and hundreds of others who followed behind me before the board parole hearing decided to create another regulations to

end that. i came out of san francisco to go to the california supreme court to rule that my constitution punishment, 22 of my 31 said that i said that i shouldn't be on parole. they decided that's not the answer but they could never send me back to prison on that number. i thought that was successful. so i joined san francisco jail justice coalition, worked closely with sheriff moto and closing down jails and giving out phone calls so people can keep in touch with their family and giving their care packages when they came in so they can have dignity and that's when i got into really loving my city and the type of progress we can make when we come together. i also was appointed to the san francisco reentry council at the cindy commission because i wanted to make sure no more william

palmers or they called me little billy would be sent to prison for life or adult sent to prison and that's a work in progress. i started life after next nonprofit because of my reentry because of the patrol department was rougher than my prison stand and my officer put me in jail three tiles to ruin my supreme court hearing and i told him i loved him and he was doing what he was supposed to do and he disappeared a couple of months later no longer being a patrol agent. i have been both sides and they are both ugly and i have seen the bars and i have seen men and women dedicated to making changes and i support that. i support the heating of the disease policies that have been in place to put black and brown people behind bars and

that work is still steadily needed to be looked at and addressed but i've also been a part of the process to remove bad apples and to make sure that they no longer dishonor the president of star which comes from the arabic word in my religious beliefs islam meaning honorable. so as long as you're honoring that badge, i'm on your side. but when you dishonor that badge, then you have to come see me. >> and is there anyone else interested in the position of vice-president? >> yes. thank you so much, everyone. my name is xiochitl carrion and you may have known my work as a prosecutor and i'm here because i have been a victim of crime. i'm here because as a three-year-old

child, my mother was murdered by my father and that pain and that suffering really showed me very early on the injustice in the world. i lived through these experiences of not only having to work through criminal justice systems of having to navigate adult, basically, in all of my life of coming from a place as a we're latina, coming from a place of the extreme poverty, coming from a place of abuse and learning that justice is around the corner. and it's around the corner if people are able to come together and work together in a meaningful way. my life experience is something of a horror story and i come before you a completely different

person, not based solely on my actions but on the actions of community and on the actions of social justice leaders of women, of queers and people who don't get to sit at this table. as much i have accolades and i have gotten those now, i'm currently on the california law commission where i assist the california legislature in changing our laws. this is my second nomination from a different governor. i've been in over 30 plus leadership positions but it comes from this place, it comes from this place of recognizing that victims need to be considered because the rlt after as a past prosecutor, i very early learned on that victims without justice become defends and we need to address how victims are -- defendants and we

need to address how victims are treated and sometimes the victims are those in our criminal justice system as well. as a pro cute cuter, i was in the independent investigation bureau and i delve into thorough detail of the policies and regulations of what the sheriff here does here in san francisco. i've had the opportunity to look at misconduct and see how there were people who should not have held that bench, that acts where the misconduct that shouldn't have been representative of the people that are meant to keep us safe. i'm here as a past litigator. i've been in tries. i've been in transactional work as both a civil attorney now and now a corporate attorney where i assist in building community

between so many folks that have pain and there is so much pain due to the lack of transparency and the lack of people being able to set aside maybe their egos and say, we are going to work together to make this the best possible institution that we have. so, i'm here to you as a vice-president because i care about san francisco. i live in the community. my family is here. my wife is here, my kids, so we live in selma. and we're in it. you're not going to see somebody who is going to be coming out and just completely detached from community because i want to show that it's not only all of my work in nonprofits because i have done it all from taking out trashes

to leading organizations to whatever needs to get done but that's what it takes, it takes someone who is able to work with every single person and i use my personal experience and my fuel and i buffered that with my education with my law degree, with study chica studies, lgbt studies and labor in the workplace. by being there and representing domestic violence victims when i was a prosecutor and also by making sure that when i was a prosecutor and there was foul play i dismissed appropriate cases and you look at the cases and you looked at the facts and you saw, was there probable cause, was there an error and you held the line for justice. and that's something i'm very proud of. i'm eager to

serve in this capacity to share my skill sets that come from personal experience of coming from where i come from and you know, making from the bottom now we're here and i'm very excited to be able to share that with you and hopefully bring a different perspective, a perspective that many times is not heard, so i thank you all for your time and i hope that i'm able to use this expertise in a meaningful and thoughtful and pragmatic way, thank you. >> anyone else interested in declaring? and i'm sorry, do we take public comment now or after we have nominations? >> [mic is off] >> technically you already had public comment on this item so you're not required to do it but

it would be nice maybe to offer it. >> certainly. we'll open this to public comment. if any member of the public wishes to comment upon this agenda item. >> for members of the public who would like to make public comment online item no. office of the vice-president, if you're present line um podium, otherwise, please call 415-655-0001 and access code, 24946776879 and press three to raise your hand to be added to the queue. there's no public comment. >> thank you. we'll open the floor for nominations for the position of vice-president. >> i'd like to nominate

commissioner carrion. >> i second that nomination. >> commissioner carrion has been nominated. any other nominations? do i close nominations? if there are no other nominations and do we proceed with a vote even though -- okay. >> on the vote for vice-president, officer afuhaamango? >> yes. >> member carrion? >> yes. >> president brookter? >> yes. >> member carrion? >> yes. >> member palmer?

>> yes. >> we have a majority vote. congratulations vice-president carrion. >> thank you. >> and i just like to say i really look forward to working with you. i want to say something personal, i have read your biography and know about your experience in community involvement and i'm touched by your personal story and members on this board have similar compelling stories of overcoming obstacles and tragedies and i'm proud to be serving alongside with people who have surmounted those obstacles and brought a sense of compassion and caring for their communities, a sense of public service, i think going through those sorts of -- being wounded by life gives you a different perspective that i think is very valuable and so again i thank you for the candor

for speaking about that and i salute your life surrender mounting what is a horrible start of life. >> should we go through roll call just so it's on the record. >> yes. >> all right. >> member nguyen? >> for vice-president carrion? >> aye. >> member soo? >> yes. >> member wetchter? >> yes. >> thank you. >> i think the next item on the agenda is what was originally number two and number now three.

>> members of the public who want to make comment online item no. three, line up or call 45-655-0001 and enter access code 24946776879 and press three to raise your hand to be added to the queue. >> there's no public comment. >> okay. is there -- do we have to take a vote to adopt the resolution? >> yes. >> do we need a motion for that first? okay. would anyone like to make a motion regarding -- >> i move that we adopt resolution under california

government code section 5493e and that was discussed at the last meeting. >> second. >> online item three, member afuhaamango? >> to adopt the resolution? >> aye. >> member afuhaamango is aye. member brookter? >> aye. >> member brookter is aye. member carrion? >> aye. >> member carrion is aye? >> member palmer? >> aye. >> member palmer is aye. >> member one? >> aye. >> member nguyen is aye. member soo? >> aye. >> member soo is aye. president wetchter? >> aye.

>> president wetchter is aye. >> now we'll go to item three on the original agenda, adopt of minutes and this is an action item. review and approve the minutes from the sheriff's department oversight board inaugural meeting held on august 22, 2022. >> so moved. >> second it. >> and we had two versions of these minutes, a version two where you made additions, some additional detail at my request. so you need to specify which version we are moving to approve. >> yes. >> so is that one we have before us? >> there's two before you, there should be -- >> so the motion is to approve draft number two with the additions. >> yes.

>> second. >> is there a second? >> second. >> thank you. >> for members of the public who would like to make public comment online item no. four, line up at the podium or please call 415-655-0001 and enter access code . there appears to be no public comment. >> can we ask is there a unanimous vote to adopt the minutes? >> is there a unanimous vote to adopt the minutes? okay. thank you.

>> [mic is off] >> member afuhaamango? >> aye. >> member afuhaamango is aye. member brookter? >> aye. >> member brookter is aye. member carrion? >> aye. >> member carrion is aye. member palmer? >> aye. >> member palmer is aye. >> member nguyen? >> aye. >> member nguyen is aye. member soo? >> aye. >> member soo is aye. and president wetchter? >> aye. >> president wetchter is aye. >> the minutes are adopted. >> i believe the next item on the agenda, number four, the original agenda is [reading item

4] >> good afternoon, good evening, president wetchter, members of the member. kate howard, i'm the director of the department of human resources. i'm here to to talk with you about the important task you have in front of you to recruit and select the first inspector general for this department. and to offer d hr's support and assistance along the way. i'm going to review some of the resources that are available to you that we can offer and then ask for your direction about how you would like to proceed. i have a brief presentation that i would like to go through now. so if you

know, your role is to conduct a recruitment process which will identify candidates who could serve in this important role to conduct interviews and evaluate the qualifications of those candidates and then to make a determination together about who you have identified as the best candidate for the role and select a new inspector general. d hr can support you in two ways in this recruitment. as the city central human resources department, we can conduct the recruitment on your behalf, so we can provide an analyst who will work with the commission to develop a job profile and announcement and then conduct the recruitment or we can bring

one of our pre qualified executive recruitment firms to work with you. most commissions do choose to work with an executive recruiter. i think that's largely because of their wide public sector networks, because of their their focus on working directly with the commission. they are not distracted by supporting another department and they are really expert in maintaining confidentiality for the candidates in the process whether it's just at the kind of initial interest phase or whether it's later on down the process so i think that's a reason folks choose to work with a recruiter. typically, working with a recruiter once a commission has selected the firm that they wish to work with, it takes about 16 weeks is the timeline they typically propose.

we do have five recruitment firms in our pre qualified pool so it's relatively quick to get one of those firms engaged to work with you. so if you choose to do that. most, whether you work with dhr or one of our firms, the process that you'll go through as the commission is going to be similar to what is here in front of you, so you'll determine whether you wish to work with a recruiter with us. if you wish to work with a recruiter, you'll request proposals from that group of firms and they have gone through the rfp and are pre qualified and we'll go to them and say dear pool of recruiters and we have a great opportunity for the recruiting of inspector general and are you interested in working with the commission in supporting them in that recruitment and they will provide a written proposal that details timeline and their

approach and their approach to including candidates from diverse backgrounds and a timeline cost. you would then have an opportunity to review those proposals and make a selection about which of them i wish to move forward. once we get to this next stage, that's where you'll be working more closely directly with your recruiter. the first step is really to prepare the job description. and i have that here listed as candidate profile for recruitment but that's really about you all making clear what are the qualities that you're looking for in a new inspector general? they will also, a recruiter can also work with you to solicit input from stakeholders about some of the qualities or characteristics that the community or other stakeholders might be interested in should you want them to do

that. once the job description is finalized and they will bring that in front of you and that's the final profile you would like to move forward with and they'll do recruitment and outreach to identify candidates for the role. typically, after about, typically after three to four weeks, recruitment firm will come back to the commission or to the president and let that -- let folks know how the recruitment is going? should we continue to advertise it or ready to close it and bring the commission a list of candidates. they would present those candidates to you in a closed session, so you all would have the opportunity to review the full set of applicants as well as additional materials that they would have provided to the recruiter and then together you would make a decision about whom

you wished to interview. the recruiter would support you in building out the questions for interview and managing the (indiscernible) ter view pro -- managing the interview process and at the end of the process, the commission would let the recruiter and dhr know which candidate you wanted to move forward with and we would work together to make an offer to the candidate and d hr makes all salary offers to all department heads. and that's pretty much the process. as i've mentioned, we have a list of five pre qualified recruitment firms that's available to you. and we can work in partnership, should you choose to work with a recruitment firm, we'll work in partnership with them and the commission president to prepare

items to bring in front of the commission on whatever timeline you would want to bring those. i'm happy, so the next steps, if you wanted to move forward with a firm, would request the proposals and we would bring back -- bring those back to you for review and decisions. and that is basically my presentation. i'm happy to answer any questions you may have regarding the process, dhr's role to support you or any other matters that i can try and answer. >> thank you. do any board members have questions? >> yes. i have a couple of questions, so i'll ask the first one. is the timeline different between -- is there a significant timeline difference between using dhr and working

with one of these executive firms? >> it probably be quicker to work with an executive recruiter. mostly because we have not set aside time in our own work plan to dedicate to this recruitment. of course, if you should want us to do it, we will make time. >> thank you. >> i saw that it takes 16 weeks total, is that from start of when executive or maybe dhr starts the process so when we hire the candidate? >> typically, recruitment firms will propose between a 14 and 16-week timeline for the recruitment process from the date that they have their first meeting with the commission until the commission is ready to make an offer. of course, that always depends on the

commissions' availability to review and evaluate candidates and schedule interviews and any other scheduling issues like holidays, for example, can sometimes have an affect on candidate availability as well as commissioner availability, but in general, four to six months for recruitment is typical. >> thank you. >> commission, board member soo? >> thank you. thanks, kate. the last time we worked together was on the executive director for the department on the status of women. i just wanted to know current cost for using a recruiter? >> each recruiter will propose their own pricing based on, you know, their, whatever factors they want to consider. what i have been seeing is between 30 and $50,000 for a recruitment. >> and as a follow up to it, i

believe the salary has already been set through the civil service commission if i'm not mistaken, right this >> the salaries for department heads are set typically through a process where dhr and we allocate department heads to different classifications. this department head has been levelled at the department head one level and the salaries do have standard ranges associated with them. there's a base compensation rate and there are extended ranges of available for recruitment or retention needs. >> okay. and then if we were to go beyond the base, what would be the process? >> so, typically, in those kinds of salary negotiations, we -- dhr and i suspect you as the commission would want to nope the candidates understand the salary range prior to applying

and so the recruiter would provide that information to the candidate, if the commission or if the selected candidate, like, say they would not accept an offer unless the salary were higher, then dhr would work with the candidate to determine whether we can meet their salary expectations. you know, the range for example for department -- the o961, department head one, the base level goes up to $193,000 but the extended ranges go first, in the first extended range to $224,000 and the second extended range is used rarely but available for unusual circumstances up to $235,000. >> and then one final question and i don't know maybe city

attorney clarke, you might answer this. if we are presented with candidates who we know personally, is there a process where we would need to recuse ourselves? >> i'm not sure. i haven't been asked that question before but i can look into it and let you know. >> okay, thank you. >> yes, member nguyen? >> regarding the rsf, what's the recruitment firm vex? >> typically and i would welcome your input about how you would like to evaluate those firms. typically, we ask them to tell us their timeline, tell us their pricing, to tell us similar recruitments that they may have done in the past, so do they have, in this case, other

experience recruiting for oversight bodies, would be a good comparable? and then finally, what other recruitments have they done for the city and county? we always ask them to provide their approach to recruiting a diverse talent pool, so that the commission has the widest range of candidates to pull from and we ask them to provide some specific examples and not just say we recruit from diverse job boards but we want to know, okay, who are you going to outreach to? how are you going to conduct that outreach to bring forth the most diverse and most well qualified talent? >> thank you. >> other questions? >> yes, follow up. for dhr, if we used dhr, is there a cost needed to come out of the budget? >> we would charge you for it. i would have to just do an

estimate based on the total number of hours that an analyst would be assigned to the work. >> do you have an idea and i understand that the estimate, is it 30 to 50k because i know we're going to be talking about the budget, so it would be interesting to find out what that would look like in comparison? >> i don't know off the top of my head. we have not conducted a recruitment in-house for department head in a number of years and so i would have to go back and look at an example from several years ago to use as a comp. >> thank you. >> i have a couple of questions. so, i've looked at the job description for 961 department head one, i see this position as being somewhat unique, maybe not falling into the preestablished categories. if we wanted a

unique position description established for inspector general recognizing that it differs from all the other department heads and this doesn't doesn't exist, whoever fills -- this department doesn't exist and whoever is in this department is creating it from the ground up and wanted the salary to match salaries of comparable positions in the bay area and i don't know if mr. long gave you the table i put together. what would be involved in that process? >> thank you for the question, president wetchter. so, we have very few department heads that are not classified using the department head classification, so i just would want to say that at the outset. the majority of

those who are not elected department heads, so it would be unusual. the process would involve a discussion between the commission and dhr's compensation and classification team, which of course i can -- and support you in that discussion. we would need to evaluate really why do you believe this is unique, how would it help you in terms of recruiting or what's the rationale for creating a standalone job classification? our goal with having department heads grouped together is to provide some sort of a framework that allows both in terms of compensation, in terms of scope of responsibilities, some consistent approaches across the

city and so that's the -- that's why we have the approach we have here. in terms of salary, i did see the materials that you provided to me and when i -- so, typically -- a commission or a department head or an hr team can request a salary study or a salary survey from dhr to evaluate, is the compensation appropriate for the role so if that's something you would like for us to look at, we're happy to do so. i would note the majority of the comparable roles that you have provided would be able to be accommodated at the department head one level based on the materials that i saw. >> that brings us up a follow up question. you talked about extending the range, the first level to 224 and the second

level to 235. could it be advised salary because i'm thinking about drawing applicants who might be interested in the position and taking into account what comp positions pay and the cost of san francisco which is unique? >> we can work with you and a recruiter if you choose to do that on kind of how we would advertise the salary. typically, what a department head would say, it would provide the base range and it would say extended range, extended ranges are available based on experience or for recruitment purposes and sometimes that's made public. other times the recrueltier has it and he or she is able to communicate it directly with candidates but we can certainly talk about that. >> i know because i see job postings on the nakel website

for positions in this field, similar positions and when you click on the link, it will usually show you the salary of someone who might be considering leaving their job in one city and moving to another comp decision in another city and they can make a quick judgment and whether it's a viable position. >> certainly. this is all public information. it's not intended to be hiding anything from an applicant. it is also true that the extended ranges are there for very specific purposes. they are there to address recruitment and retention recruitment that's particular to an issue. they may not be available to any candidate but they might be available to a specific candidate that you wanted to pursue. >> and how long, and what would be involved in dhr doing a salary survey? >> hmm.... i don't know the

answer to that off the top of my head. i can provide that information to the commission's secretary and to you. >> president wetchter, i had a follow up question, if you don't mind. >> yes. >> so this was from attending the nakel conference and because this is a unique situation and we want to get onboard as soon as possible, is there a way perhaps that we work with an inspector general candidate on a contract basis and so that person would be on boarded sooner with the consideration of possibly a permanent position? >> hmm.... >> let me finish this off. this is someone who had been an

inspector general before in another jurisdiction. >> we do have a way to offer a contract for this role. the department does have the ability to select a candidate on a temporary basis for example. you could -- you could identify an interim appointment where you would basically say to a candidate, we would like you to come and take this role on on a temporary basis for the next six months and we'll see where we are. so, that's a possibility. i don't think there's a straightforward way to enter into a contract for the role, though, so i don't think there's a straightforward way to do that. >> okay. i was thinking if someone were retired who might want to engage in that rol