from the teacher level. so many things that i would love to do that are all about changing people's minds about certain chunts, like the transgender community or the autistic community. i would like my daughter to know there's no wrong way to go through life. everybody experiences pain and grief and sadness, and that all of those things are temporary.

>> okay. good afternoon and welcome to the san francisco historic preservation commission hearing for wednesday, october 19, 2022. to enable public participation, sfgovtv is broadcasting online and we'll receive -- comments or opportunities to speak during the public comment are available by calling 4-156-355-0001. entering access code

24820155637. 4156550001. >> sorry, i'm trying to deal with a technical issue that commissioner black is experiencing. we'll take public from those in city hall and open up the access line. speak clearly and slowly and if you care to state your name for the record, each speaker will be allowed three minutes and when you have 30 seconds remaining, you'll hear a chime indicating your time is up. when your allotted time is up, i'll take the next person. for those calling in to -- press star three to be added to the queue. when you hear your line has been unmuted, that's your indication to begin speaking. best practices are to call from a quiet location and speak clearly and slowly and mute your computer or television. for those attending in person, line

up on the screen side of the room. and finally, i'll ask that we silence mobile devices that may sound off during these proceedings. at this time, we like to take roll. commissioner president matsuda >> >> here. >> commissioner vice-president nageswaran? >> here. >> commissioner foley? >> lear. >> jones? >> here. >> commissioner so? >> right. >> commissioner wright? >> here. >> commissioner black, she is with us. she's just experiencing technical issues preventing her from speaking and hopefully she'll join us in a moment. commissioners, first on your agenda is general public. members of the public may address the commission that's within the jurisdiction of the commission. except agenda items and you can address the commission will be afforded when the item is reached in the meeting. each member of the public may address the

commission for up to three minutes. >> my name is mike and i am here to speak about the castro theater. first of all, there is a serious problem for raphael mandelman. he hasn't held a single town hall meeting in the castro in the past eight months and another plan announced in january they were taking over management of the castro theater and mandelman for some reason doesn't feel the need to bring the community together for at least a listening session in the castro. he gives out this bogus argument his neutrality would be

in jeopardy if he were to hold a town hall meeting. his neutrality for when a castro theater manner comes before the board of sups is no reason why he cannot hold a town hall and hear what the community has to say. he has had lunches with another planet. he has had at least a dozen meetings behind closed doors with the lobbyist for another planet and yet that doesn't jeopardize his ability to vote as a neutral observer whether it comes before the board of sups. the man owes the castro community a town hall. speaking of discussions about the castro theater and saving the seats in the orchestra, i'm calling upon this commission before march to hold a listening

session. ask the community to come here and talk about why the castro theater is important, why the seating is important? i'm asking you, serve a vital function to diminish the trauma the community is going through because of the anxiety of waiting for any discussion here at city hall. by the time you have your hearing in march, it will be 14 long months of trauma since ape took over the castro theater. that is not healthy for the city. i see no reason why this commission can't hold a listening session. invite the community to come and talk about

the importance of the theater and why we want to save the seats. you could do the city a huge favor by putting the castro theaters importance on your agenda. thank you. >> thank you. okay. any other member in the chambers wishing to address the commission under general public? seeing none, we'll go to our remote callers. again, when you hear your line has been unmuted, that's your indication to begin speaking. >> hello. greetings everyone. my name is john goldsmith and i'm a 31 plus year san francisco resident and as part of my general comment is that i am advocating for the landmarking and preservation of the entire castro station located at market

and castro street. we have a petition that has over 1800 signatures supporting the preservation and improvement of the greenbelt as cast with this train station and that includes (indiscernible) triangle park across the street. we want ad solutions and we have applications the public works filed in 2017, these are years of advocacy with grassroots and no money. currently, our (indiscernible) castro merchants and managers are taking state tax dollars to fund the demolition replacement of our

cultural, environmental, and transportation assets known as castro station. it is a historical resource as identified at our capital in sacramento. we want to honor the gay man, howard grant who created this train station and four adjoining stations in san francisco. they are all beautiful and this one in particular provides stormwater pollution prevention, a wind break, a fire break, shade, habitat for mammals and birds and pollinator species with five palm tree and each palm tree

currently puts out for free, always free, 25 gallons of pure oxygen a day. we want to preserve and landmark the first lgbtq (indiscernible) and harvey garden. the neighbors and visitors love it. please decline or continuance on agenda item no. one regarding these lamp post on the 2100 block of market street. save harvey plaza dot org is our website. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> last call for general public comment for items not on today's agenda. seeing no additional request to speak, commissioners, general public comment is closed. i didn't catch that he was speaking to an item on the

agenda today. but as it were, that item is going to be proposed to be continued shortly. so with that, general public comment being closed, we can move on to department matters. item one, department announcements. >> good afternoon, commissioners, rich, department staff. i'm providing updates on your work program. so the hpc resolution 1265 which was endorsed by you on september 21st with regard to sharp park was transported to the board of supervisors and supervisor peskin said they will keep the board informed when it's scheduled for the park and recreation department. so they will be update and two properties are held for the historic places at the state historic resources commission this friday, october 21st and the first is the bethel ham ship building corporation hospital at 331 pennsylvania which determined eligible for individual listing in the national register at the local level for significance through

the shell place square historic resource survey process and nominated under cry teen y'all a as health and medicine and rear example of a company hospital and criterion c is company hospital and institutional building in the italian renaissance revival style which were noted during our survey process. in addition, compton's cafeteria at 1101 tailor street is heard at the nation pal level under criterion a for events and hbc reviewed the landmark designation for the intersection of turk and taylor as part of the compton's cafeteria. that landmark hearing is being scheduled for the board at the land use hearing for november 14th. just as a reminder, the department doesn't basically bring the national register nominations back before you if we or if the hbc reviewed the item once before. as a part

of the survey process and as a part of the landmark process, we reviewed both properties for you and i would like to pass it to director watty. >> thank you, hello commissioners, it's good to see you. i don't get to come to the historic preservation commission often so i'm happy to be here. i'm announcing new managers and other changes to development review functions and first to our new managers, we made two temporary managers permanent being natalia and sylvia. both on development review teams and have promoted three new managers, kelly wong to the enforcement program who does have a preservation background and she's not directly utilizing it as enforcement manager as well as nick foster and ela who will be leading development review teams. now that we have full and stable management team here in current planning, we're changing our development review team structure. we wanted to let you know since you may see different faces and managers

coming before you in different context than they have before, i passed out a graphic and it's on the screen that shows the change. moving from a four quadrant teams to the seven development review structures that are geographically based aligning with the new boundaries of the board of supervisor districts that were recently redistricted earlier this year. the result of the change particularly as it relates to the hbc and preservation work is that each manager for each of the 7 teams will have fewer reports. it's the most importance to us. and we will now have three preservation managers running very many many review team so dramatic increase in proportionality than before. we have them here. natalia managed the flex team. we're dissolving that team given that

adu is no longer specialized. it's citywide so we want that skill set and the projects to be absorbed with planners citywide. and she'll oversee that program in terms of the reporting and making sure we're meeting those deadlines but she'll have capacity to lead the district four redevelopment review team. marcel who runs the designation programs will take on the district's development team and maintaining oversight of the survey. as we embark on the survey, i realize heavily on staff in the field doing the survey work and less so on managerial development of the program and staffing it up and the strategy and structure and so we're not anticipating that she'll have as much day-to-day managerial need for the survey but she's there. if we need managerial decision-making, marcel will be playing that role but in the meantime, her extra managerial capacity is

overseeing the development of district three. last but not least, elizabeth will move to manage district five and eight and maintaining oversight of the meals act program and i'm happy to announce that elizabeth will no longer be overseeing, i think it was 13 staff at one point which is unreasonable expectations for all the work that elizabeth does. with the three managers, they will buddy up with our team managers who are not preservation managers to oversee all the preservation work in the geograpies so they can train staff as they have preservation related development review projects in those areas. and then lastly, with marcel moving to take on district three, we are peeling off the landmark designation which was under her and reporting to rich. in doing that, we're increasing our staff capacity in that

program. there's very little discretionary staffing wiggle room we have in current ing since we're highly focused on the regulatory review component but we really felt it was important for us to be able to focus that program and equity. you all have an extensive work program we can't get to because we have to respond to the board sponsored landmark which is not always one hundred percent in alignment on your work program so the fte we're allocating to that program that person will focus on your work program centering on equity. so we're excited about the opportunity to do that as a part of this restructuring within current planning. i would say at the end of this, last but not least, rich is maintaining oversight of the historic preservation program in tote -- totality. if you don't remember what i said, you can go to rich. you want to keep you abreast with the changes we're making in

planning. >> great, thank you. >> very good commissioners, if there's no questions to department staff, we can move on to commission matters for item 2, consideration. >> public comment on b. >> sure, would you like to make public comment? >> i almost forgot it there. >> we generally don't entertain public comment for that. nobody wants to speak to that. >> hi, michael again. i'm looking at your agenda and i'm glad i spoke up to insist upon public comment because you would have just gone on without asking for anyone to make public comment and it seems to be an issue with this commission about public which we will deal with at the sunshine ordinance task force. about item b, department matters, it's not okay that it simply says department announcements. what these two fine people just said was rather

detailed. the public should have known in advance that an item about the compton cafeteria and its potential for being on the national register and everything else rich sucra said, we should have known in advance. the colleague made some serious announcements about personnel changes and yet we have no idea as members of the public based on your advanced agenda that they were presenting detailed serious departmental matters. i'm asking you to, in the future for department announcements that you take a moment for the people who are coming here from the department, put it in

writing, please. tell us the taxpayers in advance a bit about what you're going to be saying here. so, we know that either to show up or tune in and be informed. thank you. and take public comment. by the way, it says 10:18 on the screen and today is 10/19. >> okay. any other public comment for this matter? seeing none, public comment is closed. taking us to commission matters for item 2. consideration of adoption draft minutes for october 5, 2022. members of the public, this is your opportunity to address the commission on the minutes for october 5, 2022. >> hi, michael again. i'm here to speak about the minutes from

your last meeting and i'm asking you to reject the minutes. they are not accurate. under general public comment, what you've done is you've included my 150 word written statement which is not what i read. you may recall that the secretary and the president were first attempting to deny me public comment. we had a back and forth before i was granted the right to speak on public comment. i would like for sfgovtv to show me, please, from the front so my sign can be on display. so i want you to, thank you, sfgovtv, i would like the minutes to reflect that i spoke for three minutes about the trauma in the gay community, in

castro since the 1970 gs when harvey milk was assassinate. what i said is not in your minutes. i am really troubled by that. the more time i spend here at this commission, i see the difficulties that i, as a member of the public have to struggle with for the right to speak during public comment and then to have accurate minutes. i am glad that my written statement is included in the minutes but it is not what i said. i don't know why this problem is before you right now but it is really incumbent upon you to have accurate minutes. please! reject

the minutes that are before you, ask the secretary to draft some new minutes that accurately reflect what i said about the trauma in the gay community, in the castro. thank you. >> any other member of the public wishing to address the commission on the minutes? seeing none. public comment on the minutes is closed. commissioners, through the sunshine ordinance task force and the "brown act" we're permitted to receive up to 150 words to be included in the minutes based on a member of the public's request and so we've done just that. >> motion to approve. >> second. >> thank you, commissioners on that motion to adopt the minutes. commissioner wright?

>> yes. >> commissioner black? >> excuse me. just one second, commissioner black. let me unmute you. commissioner black? >> yes. >> commissioner foley. >> aye. >> commissioner johns? >> aye. >> commissioner so? >> yes. >> commissioner nageswaran? >> yes. >> commission president matsuda? >> yes. >> so moved, that passes 7 to 0 unanimously. place us on item 3, commission comments and questions. >> are there any comments or questions from the commission? i don't see any at this time. >> very good, commissioners. that will place us on item four for case number 2021-009976 crv for remote hearings. again, this is for your consideration to adopt a resolution only in the event none of you are able to

attend in person to allow the city's business to continue. members of the public, this is your opportunity to address the commission on item 4 for remote hearings. if you're in the chambers, you need to come forward if you're calling in remotely, press star three. seeing no request to speak, commissioners, public comment is closed. and item 4 is now before you. >> motion to approve. >> second. >> thank you, commissioners on that motion to adopt a resolution to allow for remote hearings if necessary. commissioner wright? >> yes. >> commissioner black? >> yes. >> commissioner foley? >> aye. >> commissioner johns? >> aye. >> commissioner so? >> yes. >> commissioner nageswaran? >> yes. >> commissioner president matsuda? >> yes. >> that passes unanimously 7 to 0. >> item proposed for continuance, there were no items being proposed for continuance but we did receive a request

from staff for item 5 under your consent calendar for case number 2019-013425coa for the harvey milk plaza certificate of appropriateness. and the proposed continuance date is to november 16, 2022. so, at this time we should take public comment on the continuance calendar. >> sorry, jonis, we would like a continuance for item 6a. >> i believe we were going to take up that matter after it was heard. is that correct? so right now, we're going to ache up the matter of the continuance of item 5 for the harvey milk plaza. >> but you're going to still deal with item 5? this is just on continuance, correct? >> well, if we continue item 5, it will not be considered today. so if you would like to speak to

the matter of continuance, we will take your public comment not on the project itself. >> okay. just so i'm clear, this is the matter of continuance for item 5. >> wow, i've come here because you said on your jenld you were going to consider the certificate of approachness for the historically land marked street lights at harvey milk plaza. i come and find out you're asking for a continuance yet on your agenda there is nothing saying you're going to

ask for this continuance. why isn't that here and why are you disrespecting the public this way. i came here to speak in favor of relocating these two lamp posts. and now i'm not going to be able to speak about that because between the commission and planning department, you don't respect the public enough to tell us you're going to ask for a continuance, what happened at 12:01, is that when you decided you would do it. i have a hard time that accepting at the last minute you want this continuance. do you respect the public? it's hard for me to

answer that restore y'all question in the affirmative. see what's you have done with your minutes and how i have to battle about getting public comment and now you want a continuance. if i heard the secretary correctly, it's just until november. are we going to get to november and find some other matter will be before you that will bring us here under false pretenses and you're not going to discuss relocating two lamp posts? i did not hear anything before i got up to speak about why you want this continuance. this is no way to treat the public. we're talking about two lamp post and relocating them. there

should be a discussion about this today and if you're going to change your agenda like you have done today, respect the public and tell us in advance. >> okay. last call for public comment on the continuance calendar. >> commissioners, good afternoon. director watty, deputy director sucre, philip. i'm wondering why there's a continuance for 6a? >> that matter is not up for discussion at this time. >> we're not talking about the continuances? >> well, mr. sucre suggested to take it out of order but we'll take it up when we get to item 6a? >> do we know when it might be? >> we'll take that up with the other legacy business registry

applications. >> okay, thank you. >> okay. final last call for public comment on the matter of continuance. seeing no other members of the public requesting to speak. public comment is closed. and your continuance calendar is before you. >> motion to move item 5 to december of 22. >> second. >> thank you commissioners on that motion to continue item 5 as proposed. [roll call] so moved commissioners, that motion passes 7 to 0 unanimously. and as your continuance, your consent calendar was continued, we can move on to your regular calendar for item 6a.

>> i would like to make a comment on item e, consent calendar, it's on your agenda. >> we just continued that matter, sir. >> i understand. it's still on your agenda and i'm asking for public comment on item e. >> we've already voted on agenda item no. e and we're moving on to agenda item 6a. >> you're not taking public comment on it? >> we've already taken it off the agenda by continuing it. commissioners, this will place us under your regular calendar for 6a through c for case numbers 2022-009229lbr,

2020-009223lbr, 2022-009231blr, 20220092303 for properties at 560 broadway. [reading regular calendar.] >> these are legacy business applications. >> hello commissioners. alyana planning staff and we have four legacy business applications today and each of the planners will present their applications and after business representatives and members of the public will have a chance to speak during public comment. thank you. i will hand it off to alesandro. >> good afternoon, commissioners. department staff. the first application before you is for the condor. an adult entertainment venue at 560

broadway in the north beach neighborhood. established by genome and pete in 1958, the condo was a trailblazing of topless dancing in the 1960s and it's a night life to this day. the history of the condor is linked with the life of its most famous performer, carol dotty. hired in 1963 to work as a waitress, she performed nightly at the condor where she desernding from the ceiling. she made headlines when she perform topless at the conduit for the first time. within months, topless dancing was common in bars across north beach and soon the whole nation. in 1965, when the san francisco police department arrested dotty along with other performers and business owners on indecent see charges, they formed the

broadway businessmen's association to coordinate a collective legal defense. they established the topless dancing did not violate laws and setting a precedent relating to censorship and san francisco's reputation as a city who celebrating freedom of expression. now owned by -- the condo remains a popular venue for dancing and live music, comedy shows and sports. the business is active in the north beach community and found at the top of the benefit district to sponsor neighborhood improved districts and serving city of san francisco for 64 years, it remains committed to retaining the features and traditions that define the business including a remnant of its neon sign and the

piano that caroline performed. we recommend a resolution adding it to the registry. this concludes my presentation and i'll hand it over to my colleague dakota. thank you. >> good afternoon, commissioners. dakota, planning staff. the second legacy business application we have is for] and blue tattoo, 27--year-old business that served the mission neighborhood as unique part of the lgbtq community. the business was opened in 1995 at 483 14th street by stern and natalie. in 2002, black and blue tattoo relocated to its present locate at 381 guerrero street and the business has been female and queer run since inception and

it's a gender inclusion tattoo that's welcoming to all especially in marginalized communities such as lesbian and queer women and located next to a calf fee which is a hub for the queer community and the business hosted art and they feature artist from around the community including creativity explored. a nonprofit organization that supports people with disabilities. black and blue's founder and current owner, stern, immigrated when she was younger and she's recognized in the tattoo industry due to her unique art form and has received several awards for her unique tattooing style. and in 2005, natalie left her position with black and blue tattoo, however continued to work as a tattoo artist in the

castro valley. the business is committed to retaining and preserving its vintage theme, distinctive logo symbolling the bees in black and blue and maintaining to continue as a queer run business. they don't have a lease with the landlord and the business is at-risk of displacement. they agree it's -- getting listed on the legacy business registry would assist black and blue tattoo in securing long-term lease so they may continue their work in the community. the business has been in operation for 27 years, there are exemptions for those businesses that operated in san francisco for more than 20 years but less than 30 years. significantly, excuse me, contributing to the identity of a particular neighborhood or community and if not included in

the registry, faces a significant risk of displacement. the department is very supportive of this application and supports a resolution recommending the black and blue tattoo to the legacy business registry. this concludes my presentation. i'm available for questions and i will hand it off to brandon. >> >> good afternoon, commissioners. brandon, planning staff. the third legacy busy have before you today is royal bakery. new royal bakery called royal baking company originally was founded by a group of italian americans in the north beach neighborhood in 1925. famous for itsy tan y'all and french style breads, pastries and cookies, the business held a strong following that was

maintained through a move to a prison location in the elk sell yes, sir neighborhood. they purchased the company from the italian owners and her husband and experienced baker, isaac, an immigrant from mexico also worked at the bakery where his experience helped further establish the business as one of the bay area's finest producers of french baked goods and breads. after sarah's passing in 1996, isaac took over the business and changed the name to new royal bakery, its present title. today, mr. monroe's roy, chavez and his step daughter laura nuno attend day-to-day operations. laura's son javier garcia and her brother juan ramirez work at the bakery. the

business just as it has historically is known for its quality variety of classic french and italian bakeries and serve the neighborhood. diners may be happy to hear new royal bakery supplies many of san francisco's finest restaurants with always fresh and delicious baguettes and continues operations as the bay area's long standing bakeries still upt liesing the same brick ovens that fired up in 1935. the department is very supportive of the application. thank you, this concludes my presentation and i'll hand things off to emily. >> good afternoon, commissioners, emily lane, planning department staff. the fourth business application

before you is new lun calf fee. it's a family owned restaurant for chinese crew teen in the heart of china town for 92 years. the cafe is owned by two sisters. they purchased the calf few from their father in 1989. they served bachelors that were eager for a warm friendly meal. after purchasing the business, they redesigned the interior of the restaurant and added booths and tables to accommodate family dining and the renovations allowed the business to expand its clientele, maintain its affordable menu and become a permanent next tour within the community. the cafe kept its

business open during out the pandemic and supported the local community through destinations to charitable organizations. the restaurant is a part of the china town neighborhood and history. the department is a very supportive of this application. and recommends a resolution to add new lun tig cafe to the business resolution. that is staff's presentation and we're available for questions, nthank questions,nthank ng cafe to the business resolution. that is staff's presentation and we're available for questions,nthank you. >> members of the public, this is your opportunity to address the commission on the items 6a through d. if you're call nothing remotely, you need to press -- if you're calling in

remotely, press star three >> commissioners, hello once again. philip lesser, if i may, can we please -- a little old school but in this commission, that's good, right. sfgov, yeah, thank you. you might recognize some of these folks and hopefully, and i don't know if i'm the only native san franciscan, but that's herb wright who used to write about the condor and that's carol next to him and that's -- he's the original owner of the black condo which is 560 broadway and he brought in jeno as a partner and the two ran it during the

golden years and early 60s. they expanded to the current location that has another means of egress on columbus and what they did and this is the back story, i'm not going to be redundant on what alejandro gave. that's dave rosenburg on the left. 61, they expanded 62 and he was hired as the resource manager and he's the greatest press agent in the world. he hires a cocktail waitress in '63. he comes up with the idea, why don't you become a go-go dancer and he comes up with the idea, why don't you do your go-go dancing on a piano and she's known as twisting carol, the piano girl and he says why don't we do this with the piano going up and down

and the hydraulics company in oakland has a piano going up and down. he came up with a brainstorming idea, why don't you do this with a topless swim suit on. the rest is history. very first topless venue in the united states. as a native san franciscan, every single business that's up here for landmarking, i'm totally in favor of. i don't flow if they have had a book written about them. and the book has been written about the condor, all sorts of press, rick davie did have (indiscernible) and all the other great entertainment colonist writing all the time about the condor, so i'm privileged to have been involved in presenting this to you today. thank you so much for what you do. really appreciate it. thank you.

>> hello, is it okay if two of us are here at the same time? >> yep. >> thank you commissioner if considering black and blue tattoo for the legacy status. we are very excited to be here and a little nervous. my name is (indiscernible) and i'm the personnel assistance and this is dexa. i want to share with you knowing dexa personally, her work and what she has brought to the community very much is a personal passion of hers and reflection of her journey. in immigrating to the states and finding her way into a community and recognizing needs within the queer community specifically. and also expressing her very unique art and an adextern

statue is easily recognizable. but what she has brought to the community is a safe place for people to, who traditionally weren't really comfortable going into tattoo shops, many times women, queer people, sometimes immigrants, it might not have been the most comfortable place or welcoming place and she saw a great need and it wasn't an easy journey for her. she's shared a lot of her stories with me, you know, they got a lot of hateful phone calls at first. it wasn't an easy journey. i'm here to say that black and blue tattoo really has pushed its way into an industry that wasn't very welcoming at the time, therefore, making space for others to follow. i've heard the stories firsthand. it wasn't an

easy journey but such a necessary one and because of black and blue tattoo, opening in the bay area, many other women tattoo shops have been able to be -- many queer tattoo shops have been able to take place and i believe it's because of black and blue tattoo trailblazing. so thank you so much for considering black and blue tattoo as a legacy business here in the bay. she's a special person, so if you ever get to meet her and you'll hear her stories and she's an amazing human, so thank you. >> i'm adexia and i'm thankful for hanana helping me ask i'm intimidating with paperwork and doing phone calls and finding the right people so she helped me a lot with this process and she represents a lot of what i

like to stand for. and yes. there's very little to add to what she said but i would like to say that part of the reason that we made a big difference in the tattoo community was that we actually were open to apprenticing people that would have otherwise not been able to get apprenticeships with the very male dominated sit down, hold still and shut up attitude that was pretty much the normal -- the basic attitude that was held in that community and knowledge was not shared. we still to this day share knowledge with people who came out of the shop or even people that want to do guest spots with us that live very close and honestly just want to spy to kind of say hey, do you need information because you don't have to get it backwards. you can ask us directly. we share

information. there's enough work for everybody, so the whole attitude that was presented before our shop was that the trade was a secret trade and you did not get information and it was very hard to teach myself how to tattoo. i realized if i wasn't going to work in my own shop, i was probably never going to be working in a shop and get enough experience to become a tattoo artist and because i was young and didn't understand the rules and how to move forward and just was like let's do this thing, let's open a tattoo shop. it's going to be women and we're going to, you know, keep hiring better people that can help us to get better and we're grg to get better with experience and just really change the way tattoo shops are run and that was almost 30 years ago and it really has changed a lot.

there's several shops like kanan said that's like our shop. it's like having a teenager, they grow up and do their own thing. it can be a mixed bag. they hate you a little bit sometimes to leave but all in all, there have been great people that sprung out of our shop that really learned not just tattooing because it's an independent contractor business, so they also learn how to run their own business and all become grown ups and pay taxes and have licenses and are responsible people on many levels, not just how to tattoo but also in how to run their own business and be responsible people within a community. that was my little thing wasn't it. >> it was. [laughter] >> it was, thank you. your time is up. >> thank you so much. >> i would love if rosia would

come. she was one of the apprentices. >> i was one of the first apprentices and started when i was 18. i didn't start until i was 21 with them so they wanted me to get a little older, i'm first generation mexican american. i moved out of the house when i was 18. moved up to san francisco right in the middle of the riot girls scene in san francisco which was a really, i think, important era for, i think, a lot of people and you know, queer people have history in san francisco. we have a legacy. i've been tattooing, i'm going to be 47 this year and i have a business in oakland now where i also hire queer people, people of color, people that are disabled, i tree to make a place for those people first and i don't know, i think

a lot of queer culture in san francisco is slowly going away and i think it's important to have these businesses where people can come in and feel safe or accepted. i mean, it's important to have these spaces for so many reasons. and for me, it really created an opportunity that i wouldn't have had otherwise. i didn't have money to good to school. i moved up here with eight hundred bucks, nowhere to work and i wanted to be an artist but i couldn't afford to good to art academy or, you know, the other art school. so, somehow i just fell into this tattoo world and it hasn't been easy. but it's definitely been interesting to say the least. and it has its ends and outs but i think, you

know, it has been a place where a lot of people, you know, can come in and express themselves, create their own businesses, so yeah. on a lot of levels, i think black and blue is -- should be a leg -- legacy business and we have a less tory and hopefully we can continue that and have a place for people to come and search that out, i guess, the building. so.... >> thank you. >> any other members in the chambers wishing to address the commission on any of these legacy business registry applications? okay. if you're calling in remotely, press star three to be added to the queue. seeing no additional request to speak, commissioners, public comment on these items is closed. and they are now before you. >> thank you. commissioner johns. >> thank you very much. this was

a really quite an intriguing and interesting collection of businesses. i'm familiar with, not all of them but at least one or two but one of the things that strikes me about what a wonderful group this is this week is that these businesses have all gone through changes in people who own them and run them but there is a legacy in the business that has been passed down from one to another. and this is -- this is the legacy business program and that -- that is really broader as dem strapted today than just a family operating the business. the two were often the same but they are different and i just think it's wonderful. now, i do want to add a personal note to this. some of you, it's a

younger audience today, might not remember that the largest and most prestigious music store and piano store in san francisco for 100 years with sherman (indiscernible). and so i used to represent a man named sam, not the federal judge but the businessman in north beach who was involved in the entertainment industry and then on thanksgiving in 1983, sam was walking down broadway in the morning and just saw the police in front of the condor. and he walked up to one of the officers and said, what's going on? and he was informed about the depth on the piano and he said to the officer, well, where are they going to have the funeral at st. peterss and paul on filber street and the officer said, oh,

i think it will be on sherman and clay on kearney. so i hardly endorse all these businesses for approval. >> commissioner foley. >> i actually love this legacy business and i, the whole program and i love all of you people and i think what you bring to the community is the fabric and it's really awesome. but i would like to say something about black and blue tattoo. i don't though what to say, like what you have done and what you started with and where you have come today, it's stunning so thank you very much for what you do. thank you very much for everything you do. thank you. >> thank you, commissioner so. >> i love the legacy business program and i loved it when, for black and blue tattoo, just the three of you showing up today and tell us all your stories,

it's a legacy. you had already nurtured a younger generation and also paid the path for women to have a safe place to be sustainable and resilient and on our own. it's just admiral and thank you for being here today and sharing all your stories. it's heartfelt and i live in the missions so i walk by your store all the time and i would love to see that, keep on going, right. for the next many generations and thank you for coming all the way, from oakland to pay such an awesome respect to your master and also the stories of other businesses and it's just incredible. i have no idea that san francisco had trailblazers, the first ever topless entertainment so that was quite something. [laughter] i personally would like to approve and recommend all the

legacy businesses. second the motion, i guess. >> we still have other commissioners. >> yes, that's right. >> was that a motion, commissioner so? >> i would like to but we have to hold on to other commissioners. >> commissioner (indiscernible). >> i would like to commend all legacy businesses except black and blue. thanks for coming and sharing your story. it's definitely not easy to start a business and also being women and also serving people that may not be comfortable in other venues, so i think it's an amazing, you know, legacy to have. and i just want to suggest that if we could continue item 6a and do that separately from the other three items and those

are my comments. >> thank you. commissioner wright? >> yes, i would -- what i really wanted to say have been said by all the commissioners but i want to commend everyone and just really say thank you. the legacy business program is so important and i'm always surprised and impressed and i would also say that i was extra touched by the story of black and blue tattoo and if i ever decide to get a tattoo, i'll come there. [laughter] thank you. >> thank you. >> commissioner president matsuda, commissioner black is requesting to be recognized. >> sure. i love this city. i'm so appreciative of the chance to recognize these important four

businesses that provide such wonderful culture to san francisco residents and visitors and i want to say that i was charmed by commissioner johns comment about legacies being passed down and the businesses being considered for a legacy business. i thought that was a very nice mention. i'm fully in support of all four wonderful businesses. >> thank you. i believe we have -- >> we have two motions, commissioner president matsuda. i heard to adopt all legacy businesses and continue item 6a. i didn't hear a date. the motion to continue would take precedence. i didn't hear second for either motions. >> i'll second the motion to approve. >> all businesses. >> very good. is there a second

to continue item 6a? >> i would like to ask what is -- is there a reason that should be discussed about the request for continuance? >> well, we have a motion to continue 6a, i think for mow information. i think commissioner nageswaran would like more time to review that particular agenda item. so there is a motion that she has made to take that separately as an independent agenda or vote and then vote on the rest of the three legacy businesses to be approved. is that correct, commissioner nageswaran? >> that's correct. >> i'll second the motion for continuance if commissioners would like more opportunity for review. >> so, again, commissioner nageswaran, was there a date you were proposing to continue this

matter to? >> may i ask if that was, if it's continued, will it go to the small business commission? >> generally, we don't forward -- >> may i speak? hi, everyone. rich art, legacy business program manager with the office of small businesses. according to administrative code 2a242b2, the historic preservation commission, if the historic preservation commission doesn't provide an advisory recommendation within 30 days of receipt which was 28 days we sent it to you, they should treat nonresponse and advisory recommendation that the business meets the requirement, so we would go forward. we would present that to the sbc without

a motion from you. we would say you do support that. >> but it would be a motion without a vote, is that correct? >> yes, i can mention that, that they didn't vote on it. but according to the admin code, you would support it. had we known earlier, we may have been able to hold it back but now it has come before the commission, wee go forward with it. thank you. >> there's still a motion to continue 6a and it has been seconded and i think there is also interest to move forward with the other three legacy businesses. >> so we continue -- is the motion to continue, is it indefinitely or a date specific. it sounds like it's going to be moved forward through the administrative code anyway, but so, maybe indefinite continuance is the most appropriate. >> yes. >> the maker of the motion

amenable to that? >> yes. >> is the second amenable to that? >> i'm sorry. i didn't hear you. >> so, essentially through the administrative code, the small business commission will be taking up the matter regardless of whether or not you continue the matter and whether or not you take a vote on the matter today so the maker of the motion is proposing to continue the matter indefinitely. >> oh, okay. and to the previous speaker, was mentioning the 30-day notice, if this were continued to the next hearing in a couple of weeks, i don't know if that's enough time to do that before the -- the other commission? >> that's a good point. i mean, if we were to continue to november 2nd, you could act on it before the small business commission taking action on it.

do you know what your commission schedule is? >> if we can do that, it seems to be in the best interest. >> these are heard on november 14th by the small business commission but the admin code says you need to act within 30 days. >> right. >> so you could continue it to november 2nd and at least pass along whatever your recommendation would be at this time. >> i'm amenable to that november 2nd. >> second. >> very good, commissioners, on that motion to continue item 6a to november 2nd. [roll call] >> motion passes 4 to 3, with commissioners foley, johns and so voting against. there is a motion to continue, or excuse me, adopt recommendations for

all the, like i said, we'll count all the remaining legacy business registry applications. on that motion to continue or excuse me, to adopt recommendations for approval for item 6b through d.... [roll call] so moved commissioners, that motion passes 7 to 0. commissioners, that will place us on item 7 for case number 2021-005720pta. for 2 stockton street. this is a request for a permit to alter. >> good afternoon, commissioners, rebecca, planning staff. before you is a request for a major permit to alter for

alterations for 1 stockton street at the corner of market street and stockton street. it's a category 5 building within the article 11 mason conservation district ask constructed in 107 with major alterations in 1937 and 1995. the project was proposes to replace the four-story building and construct a three-story vertical addition on top of the existing building in association with partial from retail to combination of retail and office. the planning commission and zoning administrator will consider a request for downtown project authorization, conditional use authorization, office allocation, variance from privately owned open space requirements and a joint hearing held november 10, 2022. on june 15, 2022, the architectural review committee reviewed the project. at that meeting, the arc concurred overall with planning staff consideration that the proposed project

appeared to be compatible with the composition, scale, materials and colors and detailing and ornamentation. they requested that the project team further study the expression of the base, crown and corner of the building. in response to the comments received from the arc, the proposal has been revised to feature a double height base, a more pronounced corner facade and stronger crown element. staff finds that the proposed work will be in conformance with article 11 and the interior standards for rehabilitation. the modified building will retain retail component at the third floor and along commercial use at the office use at the up floors and maintaining the historic use and the existing blz was noncontributory to the district. the proposed facade replacement will not require alteration of historic fabric at

the subject property or the district. the proposed facade has a contemporary design with limited orientation and simple detailing that's cop patable with the district and maintains street wall on stockton and market streets and that's keeping with the prevailing heights and adjacent buildings. the new facade design will introduce a three part composition that's consistent with the size of the building and with the massing and composition of historic buildings in the district. the light color cladding adds depth to the street facing facade and buildings mass and weight. the window detailing found enabling buildings throughout the district. staff's representation for this project is approval with conditions and after the hearing was published, there was a letter of support from the union square alliance. copies of the letter are available for your review. this concludes my presentation unless there are any questions and the project sponsor has a brief presentation

of the project. >> project sponsor, you have five minutes. >> sfgov, can we go to the computer? >> good afternoon, my name is -- >> can you use the microphone, please. >> okay. great. good afternoon, everyone. my name is bob paey, i'm an a ter with gindler, here to represent. >> it's hard to hear you. >> i'll get closer. >> again, good afternoon. my name is bob perry and architect with ginsler representing a more broad and diverse design team

and the client group. so it's a great privilege for us to do significant work of architecture in the city that the firm was founded and continue to contribute to for more than 50 years. at 2 stockton, we went to the arc and proposed a design and received comments and then we went back and spent a good amount of time digesting those and thinking about how the various comments could impact and advance the design proposal. so, we're happy to be back here with a design evolution that's on the screen that shows where we were in june on the left to what we're proposing today. some of the stand out adjustments are a two story base that's defined with the change in brick, texture and color. and the top of the building has a parapet

detail that projects out and creates a strong definition to the facade organization. we like to spend a little time to walk everyone through a little more context and some analysis that led us to where we are. the project sits at market and stockton on the corner. some photos of the existing building as it sits today for everyone's reference. historical evaluation concluded that the building did not, as it stands today contribute to the kms district through a series of renovations, it led us to where we are today with the existing building. as we approach the design for buildings in this district, we look at some of the architecture noted as significant and successful. what do we find there. the light-colored materials and masonry and base top -- strong street wall definition, but overall,

thoughtful proportions. so, specifically with proportions, we looked back to see where we've been to kind of think about where we're going. the existing building was a total of four-story building but the organization of proportion you could see with the base to what's above was well proportioned and that was kept into the building that we see today. however, our proposal includes building out the fourth floor, adding two floors and a penthouse that's setback and not visible from the street. so ultimately, we're changing the proportions of the building and this is where we spend a lot of time thinking about the arc's comments and working with staff to change the facade organization from a single story base to what we would describe as a two story base. clearly defined by the materiality switch. we got a dark brick on the base and lighter brick on the top. and then you can see the detail at the top. we've got this projection reaches out,

captures the facade organization and offers more shadow and shade relief. so you can start to see as we overlay, how is the facade organized. so you can see a base middle top. there's an emphasis of verticality within the height of the building. and the top of the parapet reaches out, provides a nice visible cap to it and the ground floor organization is such that retail is designated and primarily to the stockton street frontage. those are existing openings and rhythms, stockton is a sloped street and the office levels above will get a small lobby up the market side. our storefront design is based on the kms design guidelines. the, now the bigger moves we think come to life with the way that we're detailing the brick and we've asked ourselves how can brick come to life and create a memorable and impactful architecture to a place? so we've done this with texturing,

the brick has in and out relief and create a visual interest. the upper tower is organized into vertical plans and in plan, you can see the bays have a slight curve, that curve comes to life by stepping the bricks in and out. as one looks up the tower from the sidewalk, you get a relief of texture and materiality. the upper tower is defined by a strong projection. we have some material samples that's representative of what we expect to build. so, again, today we're happy to be here with a revised design based on the acl comments and staff. >> that concludes the applicant's presentation. the public can address the commission on this matter. you need to come forward if in the chambers and calling in remotely, press star three. okay. seeing no members of the public in the chambers requesting to speak, we'll go to

our remote callers. when you hear your line has been unmuted, that's your indication to begin speaking. >> hello, my name is (indiscernible) i'm with the alliance -- overseeing the vital of union square. i would like to thank the historic preservation commission to hear about this project. speaking on behalf of the youth square alliance, i is -- i support the building and (indiscernible). projects like the one pro poled at 2 stockton are essential as a part of the downtown recovery and moving in the right direction as we emerge from the pandemic and pivot through downtown. this aligns with the goals as we create a great neighborhood experience. the addition of office space with amenities will attract the post pandemic worker and

traffic. this project will -- we believe the proposed design enhanced the neighborhood while request the commission to approve the project today to allow the two projects to move forward. thank you. >> >> last call for public comment on this matter. seeing none, public is closed ask this matter is before you -- and this matter is before you, commissioners. commissioner foley. >> thank you, president matsuda. >> i would like to say a couple of things, i think you have taken a super ugly, ugly building and made it really interesting and great. i'm really happy you're going to renovate this, build new and bring life back to union square so thank you very much. >> thank you. commissioner -- commissioner wright? >> yes. i think the existing building is a nice example of modern and which there are not

that many of -- in the city and the downtown. and i do think that its modern design can convey its significance and in the original design, even though it has had some blips with its nine, especially with the 90s changes. this and fair weather, the architects from the 30s were, are listed in the modern context statement as known as designers of known modern buildings. and so, you know, i just kind of want to put this all out there for, to facilitate any discussion that the commission might like to have about it. there is, i've learned, an impending context statement on downtown buildings

and we'll hear the statement at the next hearing, so i was curious if staff night be able to tell us if anything has been learned in the preparation so far of the downtown commercial buildings context statement that would is apply to a review or consideration of this project? >> sure. hi, commissioner wright, rich sucre, department staff. happy to address that. the issue we're currently running into is having the historical distance to provide enough of a sense of what is important and not, particularly for when evaluating buildings from the 90s, 2000s so on. i think only now are we starting to get a good picture on what the 70s and the 80s might bring

for us, you know, ideally, it seems crazy that in our lifetime, vinyl windows might be considered something significant which is wild but in particular, for these kind of 90s, redoes of kind of the post, post modern, you know, like what happens after the post modern period, which is what happened in a lot of downtown, it's challenging to really assess at this point in time what really rises to the top and what we, what doesn't, so as i understand what this particular project and the recent redo that happened to it, we did not find it to be significant in its own right so it's one of those things that i think as we kind of do more evaluation and do more study as part of our larger citywide survey work, more things might yield itself but i think in this

current capacity, it's not something that we find to be important. >> yeah, thank you. and i do want to clarify, i wasn't advocating for the 90s changes but -- [laughter] but that, i guess the way that it was written in the historic review was really focused on the 1907 facade that was completely replaced in 1937 and the 1937, i think by the store that had been there all along, so i know the building is significant for its association with the department store occupation and that same department store is the one that re-branded itself in 1937 and the 1937 redesign was published in architect and engineer, so it

seems to me, i'm just kind of making the point but i think it was a nice example at the time of streamline architecture. with that said, i also want to say that i actually really do like the new design. it would be nice if it were replacing a different building, perhaps but i think that the team really nailed the design and the detailing and i applaud the updates since the june design was presented, so thank you. >> thank you. commissioner so? >> well, thank you for coming back and thank you for listening to all of our comment in the arc review. put it on the record that the only thing i was really challenged your team to do is try and accentuate the corner of

verticality. by no means do i want you to blend everything in but because of other comments that you recreated but i do appreciate the level of clarity on your material choice and the two different sizes of the break in the glazing pattern and the lightening of the gray color on the base which is great but i personally would appreciate something that is what you have in the original design which is actually accentuate of verticality on the corner but just getting rid of the grill and i also like your other design of the one vertical mullen per window glazing verses what you have now, you had two verdict -- two vertical mullen. it's consistent with the neighboring context of the facade but i do appreciate you addressing how the building meets the sky by giving it a

little cap. but in like your project schedule, i will -- whatever you wanted to proceed, i'm happy with that. i wanted to put on the record that the original design, the data of the retail drop is pretty much consistent with how the street slopes down towards market and then also picking up the data line from the other big building along market street. the original retail height is not any issue to me on the record. what you have right now is looking really good but i know that probably isn't what -- the sexiest looking one could be. yeah. whatever you want to do, i'll put it on the record. what you had before was quite good,

that you picked up on a few elements that my comment had given but i also understand that you have to address everybody else's comment. >> thank you. i'm going to ask commissioner black if she would like to make her comments before i take -- because i ask commissioner johns. >> i appreciate the conversation about the acl meeting and the base and the parapet. i'm not sure what is behind the angled wall and i may have missed it the first time around. and i definitely don't want to make too much of this but one of my comments at the arc was related to the corner (indiscernible). it's a really important corner and entry. i kind of appreciate the angle now in particular on the upper floor base. it's

almost like a wave coming off a ship that's encroaching into market street and i appreciate that as a stronger statement. probably this is -- probably this is from the other changes from the building. i think this is approved from the arc and i'm intrigued by the slightly angled walls of each upper level. thank you. >> thank you. commissioner nageswaran? >> interestingly enough, you know, listening to commissioner so and black, looking at the side-by-side is really helpful because then you see the changes and i tend to actually, i agree with commissioner so that the corner on the left is much more distinct. the image on the left is more distinct and i think the

panels on the -- i think they appear like grilles but is it okay that they are brick. it's the way the rendering shows it, okay. and then i also, you know, looking at the fens and this inkind of -- i actually do appreciate that on the left. i wasn't imagining that it would get capped. i thought it might extend up and maybe slightly project out. but it was a handsome design from the get-go and you made a lot of improvements and i wouldn't be offended if you didn't do the custom cap and brought back the darker corner to accentuate it

and i do appreciate the double height base and to speak to what commissioner so said, she was, you know, she found the original design amenable, maybe the second story could be white and then it doesn't read so strongly. but it's still a two story that matches with the market street. because market is such a grand avenue and that height matches the adjacent building, i think, it really reads well and it's a corner building, so it has to be pronounced. but maybe that story could get white, so anyway. those are my comments, thank you. >> thank you for all of this work and incredibly impressive. and you know, i do appreciate seeing them side-by-side. thank you. >> thank you. commissioner

johns. >> thank you. i'm going to start out by thanking commissioner wright for clarifying something which i had miss apprehended in his original remarks -- but i thank all commissioners for their comments. i would like to say when we joined the commission, we had a bad habit. it wasn't quite sinister but it was bad which was, we had a pension for redesigning people's projects, usually on the fly. it was something that i never approved of and i sense that there may -- there may be some of that creeping back into our deliberations and i hope i'm wrong. i think that both iterations of the building are

just a staggering improvement over what we were left with by virgin records. the two of these and the one on the right is, by far a more powerful and elegant creation than the one on the left which i view to be somewhat skimpy and wimpy. as though if it was a plant that had spent too much in the dark searching for the light. but i would say commissioners comments on personal -- their preferences on ascetics are by in large, should be restrained so i probably ought not to have made those comments but i think the building that's currently proposed would be a wonderful addition to a corner of the

union square area that has really needed some touch up. >> thank you, commissioner johns. commissioner nageswaran? >> just to clarify, responding to commissioner johns on the comments we made in our responses. we tied everything to the district qualities and so, the idea of doing the crown on the building came from the fact that other buildings have a crown. they studied that. we looked at it. you know, and you know, it's kind of now more obvious. and then the base of the building considering the compatibility with the adjacent buildings and the characteristics of the district. the corner also is something that was professed in the district character sticks, so.... >> motion to approve. >> commissioner so? did you have -- >> whatever the architect likes

to do. >> i need you to speak up. >> i motion to approve whatever the architects and the project sponsor decided to do on this project. >> we have a motion, do you second the motion, commissioner so? >> yes, second. >> great. you have a motion and second. >> i have a question. >> i'm not sure now what the motion is. the motion that i thought we had was to approve the proposed design, the one on the right and then now i think that the motion is, commissioner so, did you have in mind that it didn't matter that we were approving both of them and the architect should make his decision or did i misunderstand. i'm confused. >> maybe commissioner foley, was your motion to approve the project as was presented today? >> correct. my motion is to approve what is in front of us. >> commissioner so, do you

second that motion? >> i second it. >> i never actually rejected it. i wanted to be on the record about my previous comment that i made on the arc. so.... >> so if there isn't a second then -- >> we do have a second. >> okay, fine! >> i'm sorry, commissioner black, i'm unable for some reason to unmute you. so, if you want to -- oh. >> yes, can you hear me? >> we can hear you actually, never mind. a motion has been seconded to approve this matter as proposed. >> correct. >> on that motion, commissioner wright? >> yes. >> commissioner black? >> yes. >> commissioner foley? >> aye. >> commissioner johns? >> aye. >> commissioner so? >> yes. >> commissioner nageswaran?

>> yes. >> commissioner president matsuda? >> yes. >> so moved commissioners, that passes unanimously, 7 to 0. >> great. thank you, everyone. >> we're now adjourned.

lwv board of education. >> the league women voters we're a nonprofit organization and if you would like to support our work, please become a member or donate on our website. today i'm pleased to introduce maxine anderson. born and raised, and the california criminal justice reform.