tv Planning Commission SFGTV December 9, 2022 8:45pm-1:15am PST
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you may join us web ex link on the agenda. kweel take public comment in city hall first then remote access line. speak clearly and slowly and state your name. each be allowed up to 3 minute when is you have 30 seconds remaining you will hear a chime. when your time is up i will announce that and take the next person. for those call nothing to submit testimony, when we reach the item speaking to press story 3 to be added to the queue. when yao line has been unmuted can you begin speak. for those log nothing through web ex raise your hands call from a quiet location and speak clearly and slowly and mute your television or computer.
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for those attends nothing city hall come forward and line up on the screen side of the room. i ask we silence our mobile device that may sound off i like to take roll. president tanner >> here. >> vice president moore. >> here >> commissioner braun >> here. >> commissioner diamond >> here >> commissioner imperial. >> here and commissioner koppel. >> first on your agenda commissioners is consideration of items proposed for continuance. 1a, b and c for case numbers 2019-0204 and s hd, 1458 san bruno avenue. the large project authorization cu and shadow findings proposeed be continued to january 19 of 23. >> item 2, two 58 cumberland to
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february second:i have no others proposed to be continued. we should take public comment. members this is where you are opportunity to address the commission on any of the items proposed for continuance. and -- if you are in the chambers come forward, press star 3 >> good afternoon. justin zuker. on behalf of item 2. today's day was selected in conference with the neighbors. andmented confirm you know the new date is approved a spoke with that date is okay. thank you. happy holidays. if there is no one else we gallon to the remote callers. >> when you hear your line has been unmuted begin speak. >> hemo~ this is del gregor and
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i have been organizing the naishg neighbor in regards to 1458 san bruno i'm meeting with the sponsor. many neighbors we have 50 signatures that is just who was home temperature is more than that. . we support the continuance so parking can be included as a response. last call for comment on the continuance. no additional requests to speak. commissioners i take that back. hello my comment is i'm on the web ex and i use web ex every day for work and i don't see how you raise your hand. so i wanted to let you know that as far asful if there are
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issues, thanks. >> you raised your hand that's the reason i acknowledged you. so. >> good afternoon i'm [inaudible] latino cultural district we are in support of the continuance. thank you. final last call for comment on the continuance calendar. [inaudible]. sounded like the speaker was catching up. the oomphed in is david edwards
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i lived in neighborhood for 30 plus years. the current situation is impossible as it is and to one parking place. it is irresponsible. there is no way family or a working trades man or people who [inaudible] impossibly limit that location without a [inaudible] and -- i'm sorry. i will interrupt you because we are only taking comment on the matter of continuance. are you in support or in opposed to the continuance? we will take up matters of the project when it is heard. exactly what do you mean by continuance. proposed to continued to january of next year and so we are just taking comment on the matter of
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continuance not scheduled to be heard today. well, obviously i continue it it is not resolved. you have to continue. >> thank you. >> okay. final, final last call >> no additional requests, commissioners public comment is closed and now before you. >> thank you. i want to the call are was able to raise their hand there is a raised hand icon you are able to find if this does not work you can call in to the phone line and then instructions on the screen it it is pressing star 3 to raise your hand. hopefully that works for you. commissioner imperial >> move to continue items 1 and
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2. >> second. thank you. commissioneros this motion to continue items as proposed commissioner braun >> aye >> diamond >> aye >> imperial >> aye >> commissioner koppel. >> aye >> commissioner moore. >> aye. and president tanner >> aye >> that passes unanimously 6-0. under your consent calendar. under institutes a consent calendar and considered routine by plan and acted upon by a single role call vote. there was be no discussion unless the public or staff requests then will be remove friday consent and considered as a separate item at this or future hearing. item 3 case 2022-000066cua.
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240 post street. a cu authorization. again members if you wish to pull this off consent you need to come forward or raise your hand via web ex or the phone byes pressing story 3. commissioners -- public comment on the consent is closed. and it is now before you. >> commissioner imperial >> move to approve >> second. >> thank you. on that motion to approve consent commissioner braun. >> aye >> commissioner diamond >> aye >> imperial >> aye >> koppel >> aye >> moore. >> aye. and president tanner >> that motion passes 6-0. and we will place us under commission matters item 4 the land acknowledgment. ramaytush ohlone acknowledgement the planning commission acknowledges that we are on the unceded ancestral homeland of the ramaytush ohlone, who are
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the original inhabitants of the san francisco peninsula. as the indigenous stewards of this land and in accordance with their traditions, the ramaytush ohlone have never ceded, lost, nor forgotten their responsibilities as the caretakers of this place, as well as for all peoples who reside in their traditional territory. as guests, we recognize that we benefit from living and working on their traditional homeland. we wish to pay our respects by acknowledging the ancestors, elders, and relatives of the ramaytush ohlone community and by affirming their sovereign rights as first peoples >> thank you. item 5 the 2023 hearing schedule. upon commissioners, i provide you with a proposed hearing schedule that is light are than normal. urinely usually there are breaks, next year the 5th thursdays fall throughout the
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year and so -- inform the past, the 2020 and 2021, 2022, you schedule 11 cancellations when you considered the next year's hearing schedule. what i proposed in front you has 8. you can adopt as is or consider fold nothing 3 or more or less schedule kanz cancellations or hold them in your pocket in case for light hearings or otherwise. i will leave it to you. we should take public comment. >> on the hearing schedule if anyone would like to please come forward or press star 3, raise your hand, seeing no requests to speak, public comment is closed and your schedule is before you. >> thank you, commissioners before i call, i note, thank you
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contact for put thanksgiving together and for noting a couple i think at least in my short time to the commission we had a tradition of having every quarter having a break if you will in the meeting of thursdays but the fifth thursday next year fall dispursed if we had 11 cancellations i prefer to prevow that now if we can i like to line it with other holidays to give staff a break from the hearing schedule and preparing packets and things like that open to ideas that commissioners my may have or opportunity in the schedule. commissioner diamond and then commissioner moore. >> there were 2 items related to the schedule i wanted bring to the commission. one is -- we have a very long time september, october and november with no breaks i think it is 12 or 13 sessions.
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full disclosure i can't be here on october 12 or 19 precovid commitment that got me deferd that have me away. if the commissionments to consider i break during that time period i would appreciate it if it was either october 12 or 19th. whoa we i can't be here if it can coincide and the second and i don't have strong feelings butmented to point out that the fifth thursday in june is before july fourth. july fourth is the following tuesday. and the first thursday in july is july 6. i don't know whether staff or the commission would rather have a long weekend or the thursday off in the week of july fourth
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which it is often a time families go on vacation. i wanted to pin that out. as an opportunity perhaps to allow families to take vacations if we move it to july 6 instead of that last thursday in june. or both. >> or both. >> commissioner diamond thank you. i'm jotting them down so if others have dates we can collect them. commissioner moore? >> this it is a slightly far out idea. typically the supervisors have the schedule 4 week in august because of the way their time falls for anybody and myself who has family abroad, it is a once in a year opportunity for us to get away for a bit longer. i at least like to float the idea to consider an additional thursday off in august.
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in order to be able to take advantage of i have try third degree before and in the past given that there were federal and california holidays created a big are pattern of time off, i want to float this year i want to float this now for next year this is the first year we potentially could consider that. >> people nod. >> i'm nodding i think that is a great idea. >> i think the department i see -- would like to sometimes take a longer break to go further away than a lot of staff have family abroad as well. commissioner imperial. >> yea. i would agree with commissioner moore. in terms of especially referring commissioner moore on the date of august. i would prefer to have 4 cancelled meeting in the month of august and also agree with
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commissioner diamond in the july in the celebration of the independence day perhaps the july 6 can be taken off the cancelled meeting. those are my -- comments. >>il check on line >> again i will reminds you that meetings you have 3 dates to play with. that you could add to your schedule cancellations. >> commissioner moore? >> no. thank you. just a moment sticking with the august topic for a bit, one other way to think about it would being i think labor day -- see what day that fallos next year. >> september 7 >> we could move august later, so instead of august third could be august 10, 17, 24 and 31st i think that would run in the labor day holiday.
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perhaps. one more week. >> you know and that way that also can aline can common travel time. i don't know photocopy that would be labor day fallos monday september 4. >> 31st we have off and labor day that following monday and come back to the commission. does the 10, 17, 24 and 31st work? >> seeing nods? >> yes. >> and people consulting schedules. [laughter]. to see what they got planned. 10, 17, 24 and 31? yea. >> that would give 4 full weeks. i do want to note that supervisors took all of august off this year. >> this happens that the next year 5 week in it. so. >> a long august this year. we will go ahead, secretary add
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august 31. move the third and add the tloon 31st. propose the 10-31? >> correct. and agreement on adding the july 6 as a holiday as well? was that inllow of june 29th? >> i am okay with either with either. we have -- off in march. i think i'm okay with having both but -- i'm okay with one or the other. i'm okay with both. >> so why don't we try it and may be we'll get to a motion july 6 off as well. and then i heard commissioner diamond note she'll be away for 2 week in october. so we could do another off in october if you want.
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i know all of us have days we may be away. how the calendar stacks up there are a couple date in june i will issue gone but i don't feel the need to have the days off that is my 2 cents. we have federal holiday in october 9. the veteran. no the indigenous people's day the week of the 12th if aline with that? >> great. okay >> thank you. >> yep. and can i ask not at risk of adding a further date. does the city have juneteenth will off the week of june 22nd. yes. >> we could put the thursday june 29 to the 22nd in honor the juneteenth holiday. >> yea the week of the 22nd
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would be that the week before or week of the 22nd week of the holiday would be the 22nd. instead of the 29th. >> i'm okay. june 22 off instead of june 29th. okay. i think those other 4 changes adding august 31st and getting rid of august third adding october 6. 12 and june 22nd. can i ask adding back in august third creates an issue for staff. i don't know whether the beginning of august is the time that staff is on vacation. >> we general low schedule our time around your calendar. and the reason the previous reason we went early in august was because for people who have
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families that is when they vacation. because schools starts earlier these days in the middle of august. so i mean myself and there were other commissioners who had young children we would take advantage of coordinate with our kid's summer break wrchl it is i didn't was asking. while nobody on the commission currently has young children i did in the know for staff it would be nice to have august third off this is before school starts i don't mind we're adding the last thursday in august but concern body taking august third, way that may impact and also our cal cars have been light this year. and i'm assuming that will be the same next year. you know would not bother me to have one add 4 more one extra date >> keeping august third and
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doing all among of august is advisable and we have a lot of staff who have family abroad and others on the commission who want to take long breaks >> commissioner moore. gi think with sensitive arrangement inside the department itself this people of familying can we should not be concern body that. the staff schedule projects. >> make it happen. >> perhaps may be folks leaning -- open to having august third through 31st off. are you okay. >> yes. >> we'll dot third, 31 off. we will swap out the june 29 for the 22nd off. we will have july 6 as an additional day off and october 12th as well. i think that is everything.
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of formal motion. >> we do. >> anyone want to make a motion joovm moved. >> second. >> commissioners i will see if i got that correct. so, on top of the proposed cancellations provided we are moving the 29nd fifth thursday cancellation to june 22nd in recognition. juneteenth holiday. we are going to cansel july 6 for fourth of july holiday. we are adding august 24 and 31st to the schedule cancellations so tell be the full month of august. and then august, october 12 for indigenous people's day. >> correct. >> on this motion commissioner braun >> aye >> combhrn diamond. >> aye.
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>> commissioner imperial >> aye >> commissioner koppel. >> aye >> commissioner moore. >> aye >> commissioner president tanner >> aye. >> that motion pass unanimously. have to do vacation planning. that will place us under item 6. commission comments and questions. >> commissioner last week we had an embarrassing incident we had public commenters who does d not have interpretation one person was able to have interpretation but we are not for the other commenters it was awkward and we were hoping by the tone they were supportive but did not know and i think you may have seen the communication about that communication. so i did talk with the secretary about what could have been don prevent that in the future and they talked about improve ams to proechlsz i don't know if you want top share that jonas what you talked about.
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>> yes. absolutely. i agree it was unfortunately. we are taking it as an opportunity a learning experience and to improve our practices. so since then, i directed staff to be more forward in advising sponsors of -- the service that we provide at no cost to the public. but more important low we reached out to the board of supervisors other commissions to see what their practice is. and i think we are going to implement something that may include stand by service. i'm encouraged. we found that out today i'm pleased inform you we may have things i'm not sure how much tell cost if anything might be minimal enough we can provide that service. may be not necessary low by live people but there is a program namay be would be implemented.
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i think this unfortunate, occurrence will provide us with benefit moving forward. >> thank you. >> commissioner moore. >> i would like to reminds this also as you were asking the people who were affected by last week to go over to the other side they did not understand you. that at least in the moment we find a way to acknowledge that we cannot speak or respond if we try. because i think they were really lost at sea. >> yes. we are sort of -- forced be reactionary in the past. if the public does not notify us that they are in need of interpretation we don't schedule it because it is a cost add cost to the department. but i think like as i mentioned we might have something that will help us move -- in the
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future >> thank you. keep us aware of that as that is under way >> other comments or questions? >> only on the commission comments. >> go ahead. >> we were copied on a letter by hd c on the matter of 469 stevenson and while i'm supportive of them looking over our shoulders this letter struck me as somewhat inappropriate as it was insin waiting to tell us what to do. we are not state employees we are not city employees we are volunteering as commissioner and for that reason i felt haa state agency even raising an implicit threat was not well sitting to me. i want to put this to record and the letter received is part of
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public record for anybody who wants to read it. thank you. >> thank you, commissioner moore. i don't see other hands up >> commissioner koppel. >> sorry. >> go ahead. good afternoon i wanted to ask that we adjourn today's hearing in recognition of fallen labor leader mike hardman on behalf of san francisco labor council and he will building and construction trade counsel i wanted to acknowledge his passing he served on san francisco's fire and port commission and a business manager of local 510 if we could appease the commission adjourn in his memory today. >> thank you. >> certainly. >> thank you, commissioner koppel.
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commissioners, we can move on to department matters gentlemen 7 director's announcements. >> good afternoon no announcements today >> 8, review of the board of supervisors. board appeal and the historic preservation commission. >> good afternoon. aaron starr. this week the land use and transportation committee took up autouse density ordinance. this has been continued several times last week it needed to be continued because of noticing error n. previous hearings preston and peskin had amendments that reduced the scope of the program which supervisor peskin did removing rm and c from the proposal. or eliminate density control supervisor preston did in the duplicated time peskin amendments made it in the ordinance. staff gave a brief over view and
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presented on the feasibility analysis the committee recommend. requested. the financial feasibility report analyzed 32 prototypes, 2 site sizes, 6,000 square foot lot with 40 foot height limit and 20,000 scare foot lot. for rent and for sale. 2 markets representing the low and higher rental and sales price areas. existing zoning and density recontrolled zoning. a project with and without state density bonus and sizes ranging 48 stories and 10 to 14 units. report prevailing wages for construction. the resulting analysis funds a negative per unit values for all scenario the total cost to develop the prototypes exceed the net operating income for
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reasonal or net sale proceeds from sale projects. in short. found with density decontrol under market conscience housing is in the feasible to build in the marketsan likewised this . is true with an assumed ceqa. limited entitle time and no significant cost for remediation, dem lagz or structures or substantial holding costs. supervisor preston and peskin used the report to suggest the will following of the programs. temperature did in the make housing feasible. supervisor melgar voted support for forward that day. will and while the analysis shows projects will be infeasible. it showed this made projects more feasible. by 60% in some case. the ordinance was moving the city in the right direction and sets priorities replacing autodevelopments with housing.
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there were other only a few people who spoke during public comment. most in support of the ordinance. the voted unanimously to forward it as a committee report to the full board with a positive recommendation. >> next on the agenda would landmark for st. james presbyterian church neighborhood boy supervisor walton and the primary sponsor of the designation ordinance. st. james presbyterian constructed in 19 twoochl historically significant the visitacion oldest religious congregation contributed to the development of the neighborhood and known architect julia morgan. they recommended approval of the landmark designation. sf heritage and property owners spoke in support after comment the committee recommended approval and forwarded as a committee report. at the full board the temporary
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safe over night park by supervisor safai passed. the safety and resilience element that was sponsored by this commission pass said. the autouse residential density ordinance sponsored by mayor passed and the landmark designation of saint james presbyterian pass the that is all i have for you today. . >> good afternoon am corey teagues zoning administrator the board of appeals met they considered really 2 items and neither were of interest to planning. thank you. >> commissioners. we had an o'farrell low lengthy hearing at historic preservation yesterday. the community came out in force regarding the castro theatre. even though it was proposed to be continued they spoke under
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general public comment and the continuance. and they made it very loved and clear that their desire is to preserve the slopped seating arrange am in the castro theatre and designate the interior as a character in design. the commission could not necessary low take action on that matter. they deferred to supervisor mandelman's request to continue to february first. they will take up this amendment to the landmark designation on february first. furthermore, under the regular calendar, they considered legacy business applications for cafe greco on columbus. bloomers on washington street and developing environments on alabama street.
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finally, they adopted historic contact statements for the du bows triangle and north beach in the works for 18 years. will if there are no questions, or commissioner moore? congratulations on finishing 18 year long project. great. >> if there are no questions, we can move on to general public comment. at this time members may address the commission on items of interest in the jurisdiction of the commission. except agenda items with respect to agenda items your opportunity to address the commission will be when the item is roach instead meeting. each member may address the commission for it up 3 minutes. a number succeed the 15 minute limit general public comment may be moved to the end of the agenda. if you are in the chambers come forward. if you are call nothing remote press star 3. seeing no members in the chambers go to remote callers
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when your line has been unmuted, begin speaking. traus. okay we will take the next caller and come back to them. in is sue hester thank you very much for your conversations on commission matters regarding 49 grant. it was an embarrassment as a person in the public to listen to the case a week ago. i would ask that in addition to everything that you talked about that staff that in the audit for their other cases aveil themselves to the opportunity to help translating instructions.
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especially for china town and in the mission for -- spanish speakers. there is not a lot the city [inaudible] with monolingual speakers. china town in the mission have a lot and they are in need of help they have major problems in affordable housing. i nearby your comments and appreciate the work you are going to do and hoping the equity is really concentrates on this problem. thank you. bye. unmuting mileo traus. for a second time.
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>> i don't know why if you are trying to peek we cannot hear you. but -- if your microphone is muted? but you are unmuted on our end. >> okay. i'm sorry don't know why they are having difficulties this is the second time we unmuted them. okay. am last call for general public comment. okay seeing no questions to speak general public comment is closed and move on to your regular calendar item 9. case 2022-0009700 pc a the gate, railing and grill work exceptions for cannabis uses and existing nonresidential uses a
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planning code amendment. >> good afternoon commissioners audrey planning staff. i believe it was supervisor safai's intention to be here to speak we'll get him in a few minutes i will start in the meantime. proposed ordinance amend the planning code to exempt gates railing at nonresidential uses from transparency requirements. subject to the provisions noncomplying structures and exempt cannabis retail from transparency >> reporter:s for gates, rail and grill work for 3 years special removal of gates, railings and grill works pursuant when a cannabis business permit is invalid or the business ceases to operate. now in the naeshl/commercial and residential, commercial will i sdpop give the floor to supervisor safai.
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good afternoon am everyone. how are you doing? we are well. welcome. >> all right. you got a long agenda. >> empty in here today unusual. anyway may be were remote. good afternoon president tan and commissioners and director hill us. today we are here to talk about an ordinance that amends the planning code to allow businesses of primarily first cannabis retail businesses to use less than 70% transparent gates, railings and grill work, roll down gates. there are existing businesses this we wanted talk about as well. but primarily we want to talk about going forward in existing businesses both cannabis and noncannabis this would allow businesses to use roll up gates a means of protecting themselves.
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i think everyone in the room understands the amount of crime that happened in the city toward businesses we have seen it all overnight place. i don'ting it is disputable. once tarred heavily have been cannabis retail this acknowledges that we have existing business this is don't conform to transparency requirements and so this would put conscience of noncompliance structures but a path to move forward. we heard from a tremendous number of cannabis dispensaries and said having transparent security systems on the front -- subject them to a higher level of upon burglar and vandalism that has to do with it is fact they are a cash businesses.
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and it make its harder for them to operate in an environment there are higher levels of surrender limp. the city is putting aesthetics over public safety t. is hard you are not in the business of public safety or you are in the business of design and aesthetics and planning and historic projection but this is an issue where the issue cocollide and the crimes are affecting accidents all over the city. one was an antique coin shop in the richmond thap it historic coins and individuals got in to steel and steel items that are irreplaceable based on historic value if that has significance to the conversation. the cannabis operators are uniquely positioned in our banking system than i are in the
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allowed participate which forces them in this cash business and having more cash on site and individual this is are involved in crime are aware of that. we had this conversation small business commission and received unanimous support by for our legislation. and also is yet small business commission asked us not to subject existing roll down gates to bureaucratic review based on those that are nonconforming today. with the discussions the small business community we were asked to electric in allowing any retail buildings not just cannabis to add roll down gates with less than 70% transparency we are interested in allow all retail businesses going forward to have less than 75% transparency. to standard az our requirements
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across all the retail properties. >> we are interested in allowing gate mechanisms to extend beyond building facade under canopy or oftening as a planner i'm aware of the planning code and how it is designed to enhance good design. and all we can do in a way to take away crimes of opportunity. so, we think that you know this -- ordinance is preventive and aims to balance public safety and aesthetic desire and respecting the design. it also we have in our concern
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form. we heard cannabis was a change of use from cannabis to noncannabis it was drafted we may not keep this language moving forward depenning how things go with whether this stays in specific just to cannabis businesses. so, that's it. thank you for the time i'm happy to answer questions or hear the discussion. thanks. >> thank you for coming. we have hands up from commissioner moore and diamond. >> what i'm quite surprised because we hear our ends business of approving cannabis retail what you present stands in contradiction to when we hear
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each time that we are approving or considering approval for cannabis retail. we are asking for police supports and most tell us it is nothing in the city that cannabis retail is targeted for any form of crime or illegal interference. and listen to what you were representings it seems to sounds the sit opposite we hear cannabis retail is supportive and enhancing pedestrian activity and safe passage in commercial corridors and hearing you, if i'm not misintercepting is fear of robbery and criminal activity. and i'm disturbed by that stark of a contradiction we find
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ourselves again and again supporting cannabis business. specific low because it is a neighborhood retail and activity enhancing. not the way of how you describing it. >> let me clarify i don't think they are exclusive based on had i (ed. one is the cannabis retailer saying. nothing about my business is going to contribute to criminaling activity this is in the related to my business. whether it be pedestrians walking by. enhanced criminal activity that is not this is -- specifically the cannabis retailers saying because of the way the banking system is and because we have cash business operations we personally our business property upon and -- revenue is subject to and has been subject and has been documented.
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commissioner, where in the haight, for example, the individuals were caught on camera and officers there. they broke in. and they were able it get, way. i think it is in the a nuance it it is a difference. if my business come in and pedestrians are walking by in the daytime is there criminal our noncustomers subject to crimism say answer top that as they have presented is, no. but they as individuals with heavy cash businesses. across the board them and jewelry stores during covid were very much targeted for break in and robberies for jewelry and the cash. that's i think that is the distinction. and this is when they have presented us. in -- form. but then, then, and that's why i
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said we wanted expand just cannabis there are other businesses like the vintage coin operator, like the jewelrier in china town or jewel in excelsior a lot. businesses not able to put or the pharmacy 2 of them that were just 2 weeks ago broken into and had drugs over the counter drugs and cash taken. so, we are hearing cross the board from multiple businesses this conversation started with cannabis because they are heavily cash. >> thank you. >> thank you. commissioner diamond. >> upon thank you supervisor safai. so -- i'm always impressed by your pragmatism when you prosecute pose legislation. i want to pose to you a concern i have with the roll down doors to see if there is in the a
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solution. i can understand why from the perspective of the cannabis stores i agree with commissioner moore, a commission we have been approving these not with standing the neighborhood opposition because it is legal and we are trying to regularize cannabis can treat it like any other retail without specific conscience beyond what is proposed for security. my concern is not so much with the roll down doors i get yet cannabis retailers and operatorsment them. but i'm concerned about the impact on the surrounding neighborhood because those doors are canvases for graffiti and i'm very worry body that and that it strikes me while we have antique graffiti legislation in the city it is not that effective or not that expeditious. and that once we start to see
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doors tagged it encourages i'm told more in a neighborhood. how do we accommodate you know the valid concern about cash the cash heavy businesses which hopeful low will change over time. so that over time we would not need the doors. but how do woot balance their need for security or the other businesses you are talking about jeweler or coin sellers with the horrible affect of graffiti on a neighborhood >> that's a great question. thank you when we have seen with existing business this is have these, they gone out of their way to make aesthetic improve ams. wlp it be art, some form reflective of the neighborhood or hiring an artist to do a design to o the gate itself.
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nap has been a 100% deterrent for this type of behavior. we being write in to the legislation that tell be requirement that were would be an aesthetic improve am artistic enhancement. could not just be a blafrn wall had to be i don't know if we can write hain as part of the legislation. i would say i'm very open to that. because absolutely, the walls and corners in my neighborhood that are not come in the mission and other places original the city in mine and supervisor ronen's district along the mission corridor are heavily magnets for tagging. not graffiti. graffiti more of an art form. tagging a scribbling your signature all overnight place. where we have the roll down gate in thes neighborhood and well is a few.
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the 1s that do have run out of the way to put art on them they are left alone. >> i would say -- i was before your presentation supportive of the recommendations from staff my concern. if you were to add provision in your legislation thats required art or other measures that discouraged tagging, that would be very helpful. in addition to when i wonder if we can include a monitoring provision where we keep track as a city whether or not the roll down doors are encouraging more tagging graffiti whatever you want to call it, especially if you are thinking of expanding this legislation to others, i kneel feel we need the dast on on understand whether or not this isset kraing other problems i will put that out there. >> i appreciate that very
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thoughtful krushthive criticismism think it is correct i would not want to proceed without there a requirement to have a type of aesthetic enhancement or art so it is not a clean wall >> was your intent to eliminate this legislation after 3 years. i thought i saw manage in the language of the proposed ordinance that said there is a 3 year provision. >> not that i'm aware of unless. for. cannabis. >> right. for new cannabis anything ever 3 years a new business that was we designd that for a window for businesses over the next period for cannabis if they dmam if we
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expanded we might eliminate that. one things to consider is if we get to the point where cannabis is legalized federal so they don't have to be cash only businesses i'm not sure i could continue to see a requirement for the roll down doors. so no one whether that is something you can consider an ma'am to the legislation as well, too. gi think what we would do we have the ability to amend but we could come back and amend that is something to consider. i think the 3 year window when we contemplated this was to create a space as new businesses came online we wanted a window. the small business commission and drafting and further conversations with -- your staff and other people in the business community there hen an out -- pouring of support for expand particular beyond cannabis we
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wanted bring that for you. i'm not saying that will happen. i -- see commissioner moore shake her head. >> i wanted you to know what is out there in the on the streets of san francisco. [laughter]. commissioner moore? gi would like it dig deeper that is perhaps asking planning and historic preservation staff there are roll up doors and roll up sdpoors bellings and buildings and many are in historic buildings and as you do a roll up door it is an intervention in the treatment of the facade. and that requires i think a technical look in terms what is available and hardware. what is available in terms of john intrusive addition of rum to a building or to make it possible.
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there is have been vandalized i believe the art on the roll up door is not necessarily safe in terms of visual appearance but there are indeed ill spirited individuals who also deface art on any surface. i think i like to look at this more deeply. in terms of the time of doors. the time of alteration of buildings that would be required and that is something we may not be able to exactly solve today. i think that it is support for the legislation. i have my own thoughts about roll up doors because they create the impression of a fortified city of fear. >> rather than asking a business
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to adjust one additional guard or create security that is responsibility of the operator. but not a change in how we want to treat our city fairly. say mr. whatever they will do roll up doors they are expensive in the windows but every where and subject to robberies. now saying downtown will move in that direction, too. a big are question and i'd like us to if we do something, do be all fronts for all and everybody. >> thank you. >> i think that is very fair and i think staff is going to recommend today this anything that any building historic nature we take extra level of
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review or detail. and say ceqa and i think this is fair i think the difference when you near downtown or union square the high end jewelry shops, a lot of that merchandise is taken off site or in a doornt vault or location versus know thanksgiving there is high vol unanimous of anyway. but your point is well taken i thank you is a good constructive criticism if you deal with a historic building or siftedic nature of the facade want to be respectful i'm happy to consider that for sure >> one of the questions do cannabis or other high cash producing businesses have a brink truck who picks up the money >> they do. >> and they distill get broken into. it is usually after hours when no one is on site not the time the and almost 100% have security i think they have to.
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understandable low so. during hours of operation. so. yes. that is the case. and often times individuals that work there are transporting cash in higher volumes. >> thank you supervisor, appreciate your proposal and the answering the questions. a staff presentation. >> great yoochlt and may be comments. >> yes. >> i'm happy >> thank you. >> thank you supervisor safai. i it sounds like most the commissioners are fairly familiar with what this law would do so i'm happy to go over in in detail if you like but first i will go over staff's recommendation and you like detail i can after. the department recommending the commission approve with modifications this ordinance those recommendationers follows, the first is to not create a separate set of requirements for
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cannabis retail to install security gates less than 75% open to view. i like to go into why. since condition bills of legalize in the california the city and the state and as you commissioners have commented during this hearing seek to destigmatize this use and the way the city has done that folding cannabis businesses with other use definitions. and by requiring that cannabis retail abide the same as other buildingses. the public has krrdz cannabis retail more dangerous than other business this is is not the case. and so if we only allow cannabis retail to the have the solid gates we are reenforcing they are more dangerous than other uses or less desirable to locate in the neighborhoods. i like top upon point out there are roll down gates that provide levels of protection to solid roll down gates i believe the
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haight ashbury merchant's association in letter to you had examples of the gates hope to see. and they were oun aware the gates they have in the letter are currently allowed under code. so. the dpchlt believes that to continue the destigmatize you should not being treated differently than other retail use the second is to allow 3 years from the introduction date of legislation for any active, nonresidential use in the districts. have an existing security gate but do not comply with requirements to apply for a building permit to establish that existing gate as a legal building leadership. you in it say this is is a requirement for cannabis businesses. either those that already have an illegal gate or those that would like to install one in the future not 75% open.
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the mrgz if you puts a 3 year time limit cannabis business visit 3 years to install a buy but need a permit to make sure that is recorded as a legal, nonconforming use we would like it to all nonresidential use in the program that are already have a noncompliant gate. has 3 years to apply for the business permit that building permit. and then obviously if the qualifying business does in the come in within the 3 years to establish that gate as political nonconforming they would not be required to the amnesty program. third gets to supervisor moore's comments on historic preservation is language to clarify the amnesty program for
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transpicious does not exempt historic building from review or ceqa requirements the basis is that we understand that noncompliant security gates are common in the city and also recognize the many economic hard shps the small businesses have been through. and we also believe our requirements are a benefit to the city for aesthet and i can public safety reasons as well. you will see in the case report the fire department is supportive of some transparency. weighing the factors the department finds the amnesty program is the right balance of making sure small businesses are not harmed by coming in compliance for gates they may have had long standing but also ensuring we're promoting vibrant public spaces in the future.
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there have been 5 submissions of public comment than i have been e mail and theed i have them here as well. within the submissions is that letter from the haight ash burref merchant's association. with that i will conclude staff's presentation and i'm available for questions. thank you. >> thank you. this concludes staff's presently egg. take public comment if you mean are in the chambers come forward if you are call nothing press star 3. or raise your hand via web ex. no member in the chamber we go to the remote callers.
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oh. is this me? that's you. >> all right. good afternoon commissioners conner johnson. i am one of the owners of the first social equity cannabis dispensary in san francisco at 1685 haight and partner in another in the city. in the summer of 2020 when we were having nationwide [inaudible] and alegality of burglaries and i have lent robberies in the city my partner was stationed outside with our security waiting to have to scare away armed robbers that were targeting cannabis stores. sometimes after, someone saw fit to file a complaint against our
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security gate and thus began a back and forth with myself and friends and the mayor's office. result in the me become [inaudible] various points and ultimately resulted in supervisor safai work and going back not just for us or my business. but for cannabis in general and for small business in general. i really cannot thank supervisor safai enough.
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they have it and they have secured their slot in mind and got the gate. i have that's it thank you and thank you to supervisor safai. i'm terance allen i'm owner of the floo in e castro. i was fwloen 2 months ago in a burglary that took a total of 3.8 seconds. the burglar we had decided because we could not have a roll down gate wield rather they be able to enter the store without break window and smashing the front of the building so they broke in through the door with a crowbar approximate entered the store. shallly took a crowbar to our
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storage area. pryd that open despite it being a vault door and in and out damage and theft about 50 thousand dollars in less then and there 4 seconds. we have a monitoring system that watches for activity. that monitoring system was, lettered the burglar alarm was alerted our security team does regular drive by were alertd and arrived 4 opinion machines. everyone was goodnight crime occurred and nothing to dom shortly thereafter a very fast and excellent response from the police department occurred. again, no one was there and nothing could be done other than to secure the scene. i was call in the i came down and secured the store and proceeded to account for the damages and begin to make the
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repairs. they were in a stolen car. they were covered head to toe they are untraceable and made off with product and cash that is untraceable. so for me, the i spent alegality of time, money and planning commission and planning department knows this building is a great state of disrepair installid beautiful mural and restored the front of the build and it does break my heart to think i would do something that would deface that bodiesing. in my conversation as copedestrian castro merchantses with others in the neighborhood i talked about when would make a roll down gate not only a palatable and made temporarily buff would be pleasing to the public and as was discussed by
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the commissioners we decided that it would be requirement it have art, local low produced and maintained at the xejs of the storm i hope that answerure your question and ask for your passage of this bill and thank you supervisor safai for bringing it forward. >> i'm sean richard i'm first equity applicant awarded to open up a dispensary and [inaudible] on haight street. we had gates put in in the very beginning. and the gates put in and no long are a week after our windows were busted out. we had to replace our windows 4 times within and coming up on 3 years. we had to replace them 4 time in
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3 years. then the riots came and still have our gates up. there was no problems during the daytime. but we had people who came up to haight street and car vans of cars all night long and iment to correct connor it was not 4 days it was 2 weeks. >> i had to stay up there and spend the night away from my female make sure that store would not get broken into. you know the streets and community i have brothers against guns no matter what dp goos people are look for example opportunity to break in and get
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cash and marijuana. now, i'm not saying making exception just for the marijuana dispense easier. everybody should be covered. that's why i thank supervisor safai for bringing this to the commission and asking you guys to look deeply into this. because there is an opportunity for thieves and people that the to be in this lifestyle on the streets to break in come steel and rob. now, as you were we're only dispensary in san francisco that have not been robbed during broad daylight. and am at night just because my tieses to community. that is in the fair with others that don't have those relationships in the community or [inaudible] i'm encouraging you to really consider this . upon not only would you have to deal with that but you will tax
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payers pay dollars sending the police out there time and time after break in occurs. park station excellent on the 80 incidents that occurs in the area. we are concerned but the same time we have the young men and women will break nothing cars broad daylight and taking tourist bags. thank you. good afternoon this is johnny, president of the san francisco cannabis retail are alines. i like to thank supervisor and staff for bring thanksgiving legislation forward. we are over a dozen legacy medical cannabis retailers
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prefer to see this code amendment pass as written by supervisor safai. i will go throughout recommendations from the planning staff and give our comments one at a time. first recommendation was don't separate for cannabis. frankly, i fought for cannabis equality the past 10 years. i have been an advocate, many heard me speak. i'm fighting a good fight to regulate and normalize the industry we are targeted by criminals. i owner of project cannabis on bryant during the george floyd riot i stood outside my door with a baseball bat defengdz my store. we need special security requirements for our businesses. i heard horror stories. people kid napd and dragged to
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the cultivation facility. members looking themselves and staff in their safe. we need until this is normalized 10 years from now we need the ability to protect our businesses with solid roll down doors. 3 greers are a sxurt gate to be grandfather that is finish taftic. i don't want to enforce permits or create extra costs. when i looked at the recommendation number 3 add language to clarify the amnesty program does not eliminate historic buildings. when we looked at the doors we looked around the city there are many door in china town and neighborhoods all over that likely historic buildings impacted and hard to per commit
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make the amnesty program sdpifl cost mom and pop operators additional dollars to get compliant. my strong, strong recommendation is to make the amnesty program as inclusive as you can make temperature so everybody can raise their hand and say, i have a solid roll down door and it has been in prescription for a period of time and i want i understand planning needs a register have you to draw a line somewhere when you do code compliance. i appreciate that planning is trying to really preserve president aesthetic of our city but can't dom that at the risk of safety for humans. you know and we ken do that for risk of causing mom and pop3 >> that is your time. >> historic preservation. >> thank you jonas, commissioners and supervisor.
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>> hello this is mike patrellis callingeld like to address your continuance about the castro theatre. you made this decision. >> mr. patrellis we are not talking about the castro theatre we are speaking to item 9 for a planning code amendment. oh. to be clear then is not general public comment? >> no. we have passed general public comment. why okay. thank you very much. >> bye-bye. >> okay. last call for public comment on item 9. for the planning code amendment. seeing no requests public comment is closed and merit is before you.
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thank you to staff present thanksgiving come those who call in the questions for staff and the supervisors. at a high level this is 2ling everthank yous one the rise. crime in the city and impact it has on small buildings and when we do and where does it end where we fortifiy ourselves to the point we are losing the aesthetic and the character of our city where you want to be a city folk don't have to have a roll down door or a scissor door to secure their sxrpt have business thrive and i think what the haight ashbury business
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association said folks install this without thought because it isa i cost. i nev.ed to take the measure to add the door 75% transparent or not transparent. to their business. so i. sensitive at this time moment in time we are in. and sensitive we can change the legislation in the future when our street is able to get a handle on some of the burglaries and thefts we have been experiencing which is this is a designed response to this social challenge we are having and support the small business in this mobile home for me supporting small knows system more important then and there necessary low maintaining aesthetics and i think hopeful low we come become to this in the next few years a city where folks don't have to have the
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expense can remove or don't seek the need to have them. in regards to the recommendations from staff, you know i am for number one not having cannabis having different rowellings i don't support upon 2 sets of rowels temperature is harder to follow. and just better to have consistency. i do understand cannabis in i mobile home it is in the legal federaled and banks have challenges working with them with the high amounts of cash. i thought in the beginning may be we were the cannabis commission. i don't think it is wise to say yes, you can operate your business but if you get broken into 4 times you know -- too bad so sad hopeful low you will not again. i'm not supportive of the staff recommendation number one. the recommendation number 2 this
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it is a question may be somebody can answer if there is a less intensive way than a building permit. having the 3 years and great and hey, if you have it great and may be having amnesty for otherers who is a nonconforming door an affidavit or something less than a building permit. so, our understanding the permit required because he would be triggered under the building code the building code has trig are when this permit come in trigers require planning review as well. and so roll down gate is this time of thing and the same review now they come in now we review to determine if it meets
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the 75% and location requirement if this was adopted we would be reviewing. could you in this case saying this does in the meet the 75% requirement. do you meet the other it is this type of business or install in the a certain time we need to go through that to show it is eligible. and then that achieving having the building permit would all be the documentation for the report typeset is legal.
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i don't are lucky in the time we talk about i don't have google street view and on line photos of street frontages there typically is decent evidence that is attainable in modern timeless we would be open to considering all of those things when determining if it was installed on a certain date. why do you know how much of a cost of the building permit folks pay. why don't have that i will try to get this if you like. >> sure. great if you can and then for somebody come in get a bodiesing permit to have a legal nonconform figure than i have this door and what i understand, apartment of this not just the break ins but a number of complaints this year in, i don't
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know if you are familiar with the complaints would this legislation resolve the issues they are facing that the complaint the property that had complaints fileod them y. that depends when come out of the legislation. because the batch complaints was not just cannabis it was a variety of businesses and we don't know we done really because of the batch nature they came until and knew there was legislation happening those have been put on hold and not actively working through those to seek what the outcome of this legislation is. so, it is heard to say what extent this legislation passes it is safer it say the majority of them will be addressed in this case and the building permit costs i don't have the number the same as people who come in to get permits for gates
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now. >> no penalty assess snd >> right. >> and this it is my memory is in the good but strikes me similar to supervisor steph no's legislation about signs a bunch complaints businesses and signs and the down locked when to do. what i can't recall if folks this h to come to get a permit a similar press this we are. >> all the same concept but it is the way you document compliance for something you add is through a permit. >> right. so i'm sympathet iing to folks not want to go through that process it there is a better way i love to hear it. i can't think of within this does in the mean someone can the last around historic buildings. this is a question that would be good to get nochlgz as this
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heads to the board for consideration. wanting to steward the historic district and building this is body and the board of supervisors spends time on protect and supporting and the same time i would be curious how many legal nonconforming roll down gates will need to be fall in the historic provisions and not taking advantage of the amnesty and the situation we are not helping them we are adding more burden to them. >> of course you could say if than i had followed the rules but --. thank you. commissioner i want to clarify the third around historic preservation is not to say they are not eligible for the amnesty program just to say they will be held it processes like a certificate of appropriate innocence required.
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or if there is a state requirement we can't get out of as to the way the building has been modified accommodate that gate. it is more legal language to clarify this does in the get them out of extra processes. it does in the money if you are a category building you could not have a get that is less than 75% trans parent you will be eligible for this part of the program y. thank you. those are my comments. as it pertains to pre-existing grandfather thering is a difference and i know there it is contemplate and again we draft third degree to bring to you. 3 years from you know the passage of the legislation i think a better way would be to say 3 years from being noticed by the city. a notice of violation buzz it
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takes time tell take time to notice all the people and make sure they are aware and does not give time to dot work, pull the permit. hire the contractor. i'm sensitive to that as well. and so -- it puts a burden on us to notify but we give them time to transition to and go through whether it is historic or -- other specific codes and permit this is have to be pulled. i feel comfortable with that. buzz it gives a somewhat of a more just trans sxigz easier financial trans toigz prepare for >> makes sense. >> thank you. why commissioner imperial. >> on the cost of the building permit, witness won't find out what that is, you know we have done before a tiered system if you have an existing business and trying to help them and men
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you do a cost for this permit fee to bring them in. versus someone aploying now knowing whether they are cannabis or not. that is something else we would like to contemplate. and again as whey this conversation it started out going forward perspectively. would be about cannabis. but we as i pointed out some examples those businesses that are late notice or high end, high value items have been also subject to victims of crime burglary and break in and had high value items stolen. this is someone we would like to contemplate with this. >> i say that there is cultural difference in cities that have a more common presence of roll down doors new york and it is in
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the seen as like anything it is per of the fabric of the stele and the way things occur. i think if we were to transition to this fully the fire departments occurrence would want to see one better enforce p.m. of folks not having graffiti and clean up right away. there are solutions and i think while could seem like we are going to like fortifying our city men a transition in san francisco. i think there is a way its go it see how this applied other buildingses. it is a worthy discussion to have. >> thank you. >> commissioner imperial. i appreciate what this legislation is trying to achieve approximate like what commissioner tanner or
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preston-tan are mentioning. for me the issues of public safety and at the same time as her in the planning commission we are thinking of alls in the general policy of what reare trying to achieve whether this is like in response of what is happening during the pandemic as -- as -- unfortunately, we don't have you know the the -- i say the [inaudible] of the break ins which establishments. thez other things for as a policy level those are the things will i would like to see.
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however you know when i first read this the legislations well as the planning departmenty recommendation. i am tao actually lean to the planning department's recommendation. and i do think like and especially just now that we will had the one comments from the haight/ashbury merchannel association a pragmatic approach. a compromise a roll down but transparent. again, we don't know the affect of this kinds. -- this transparency like a roll down. it does meet the what the both the plan and sproirz's goal is here.
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the recommendation number one by the department i -- i feel like this is going to be an on going discussion with the department and the supervisors office in terms of the. i don't think as well and i think tell be hard as well to have a 2 separate requirements for cannabis. i'm trying to think in a way that is approximate terrible for planning departmentful dm terms
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of recommendation number 2, i do the small business owners and i do appreciate that the building permit process but it is equitable. this is still an on going policy this needs to worked on if this come become to planning commission, if there is any [inaudible] i would like to see. thank you. commissioner braun. >> yes, i definitely do have concern about carving out a
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differents in the code for transparency >> reporter: and gates for cannabis businesses ash lone. and block the view and removing transparency. i also and so i have to admit i have a skepticism about some aspects of this legislation. i rescue noise the challenges and unique nature of cannabis business operations now. and um and so i think this i am lone nothing favor of not supporting the first recommendation by planning however that's because of the limited scope behalf is proposed in the legislation. i don't want us to be in a situation in which our neighborhood/commercial districts are the roll down gates.
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the art work and graffiti things can be done but it i really think tell detract from the appearance and the vibrancy of the commercial districts. i have been in the commercial district in the city and innervocabulary in the burglaries in businesses. i understand the challenges. not from the perspective of [inaudible] from having dloes it for awhile. as far as yea the legislation around the gates of cannabis businesses and not transparency requirements i can report it. buzz it is a time limited. legislation with the 3 year period.
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and reassess. then moving on to the second recommendification from planning staff i do support that recommendation. i don't figure out another way to make it easier may be a proactive out reach process that might be possible instead of relying on notices of violation. the fact there is a 3 year window. during which you can come in compliance. i'm less comfortable with the idea of meching a rolling process in which the notice of violation prosecute occurs and 3 years to come in compliance because it is possible to put upon a noncomplies gate. get nov and 4 years from now. you get the nov and 3 years from then an open invitation to put update closed gates.
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i see the need for a permit process in place. and the third recommendation is to me a sort of clean up recommendation to bring this in compliance with laws and other requirements. that's my thoughts >> thank you. i think this supervisor like to respond. i wanted to the roll down that are still transparent that was in my initial example of drug stores than i were able it get into those. than i broke in within less then and there 2 minutes in and out with 200 thousand dollars worth of cash and drugs. i think this to commissioner tanner's point on the block in my district that have the roll down gates, it is you know the
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doughnut shop no one is brick nothing to steel doughnuts i'm not trying to be funny. they are not the doughnut shop on the corner is none the state farm next to them of none. the -- and the know ~ifiablely when you get to the one or 2 that's there was a former meat market high end value approximate meat. and chuck's market has a roll down of that block, pithink that it is what happens in practice the high end value business this is need to protect themselves in a different way. jewelry, cash, high end meat. you know but they other ones this will have the idea. so, i think that some businesses will choose the transparent roll down mesh.
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gates with greater level transparenciful buoy think having the option not just limited to cannabis i don't think we should create it sections going forward allowing those businesses with the concern of the aesthetics is important. much of this will be self selecting if there is a significant cost associated with installing and maintaining sdmem if not done properly then you know -- businesses that don't need them will not chose and most of the time. anyway. i wanted respond to those. >> and on the points of grand father the reason i wanted put the notice or spondzing the city notifies you it gives people time to transthigz is important. puts the burden more on the city to be proactive that way. >> thank you. do you want to make comments. i'm sorry commissioners i don't mean it drag this of i want to
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make surety supervisor mention this is an amendment going to committee i want you to discuss had. one of the other proposed potential amendments they may discuss is allowing gate mechanisms the big boxes that fit boost roll down gates. can i have the over head? the picture of the haight ash best of your memoryy association the building on the left under the red oftening has the gate mech nichls our code says a gate mechanism has to be flush with the building facade or receded behind it. and i know there has been consternation the fact this makes the types of gating very difficult on insdpauchl why men chose to install scissor gates
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than i come in from the sides. so. i believe this men discussed as amending the planingly code to allow these types of mechanisms to pop out past the facade. may be a canopy requirement i wanted make sure you anyhow this might be the discussed if you want to comment on this. thank you. >> thank you. you can leave this picture up. we can have the over head. for public. it is interesting to think about this gate is this not one this is transparent in and it is transparentful total low >> it is buzz of dimensions of the gate it is rolling down it is roll be down bawl but instead of the side but transparent. i think it is i don't know i just it is under the oftening, i
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think it it is fine. commissioner moore. joy think the last example shows there may have to be research in what is supportive of the idea of transparency. wham is supportive of the idea of security. and aluminum as a material is less secure than metal iron gate. and as i said earlier, roll up door, garages are roll up and residential buildings we have literally break ins with roll up doors every notice there is personal property and residence security at stake. similar to when we encountering in the business corridors cannabis retail. roll up gates are not necessarily the answer. but i believe that transparency may be and the scissor gate or a
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form of foldable gate should be investigated. some people hire like security experts who will not only advise on the location and type of security measures but the brands and kinds of devices that would help with security. and instead of rung update stele for transparent support in the department's recommendation, i would like to give us more time for slight low more real life application with somebody investigating what are our tools. roll up gate is not roll up gate. and -- i thanip don't have the answers. i support staff's recommendations out of the sheer need to be stewards of a transparent liveable 24 hour
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city. which does in the have alternate transparent dark holes on commercial corridors. i am in support of security for small business and everybody but i don't have all the to thes to make an informed gentlemen other than trying to support direction what the department is trying to dom >> thank you, commissioner moore. >> commissioner braun. question around there would be discussion about it is ability to aluthe gate mech simple to protude past the facade. it is hard to say at the mobile home i'm not00 eye understand thap there are a lot of circumstance its is doyle fit it in the facade of the building. if all i will say for now if it were to be allowed i would want
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to make sure well is an oftening this fully covered the mechanism the picture now the oftening did not reduce clutter and it so whatever the solution motorbike it has to cover the mechanism >> great solution. commissioner diamond. on the awning. hour does the awning have to go and completely objective and not come for approval and something this is as for people to understands. because obviously, you know if you have roll up doors you need a place to roll into which of course than i will protrude.
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>> absolutely. >> thank you for a good sduchlgz i don't see other hands for more discussion. i heard from a couple of us that we are not as supportive of one but general low most the commission is supportive of 2 and 3. and some are supportive of all 3. so, not sure who wants to craft a motion we are on that part of the agenda. >> an answer on the fee question. the za consulted thenned dollar gate installation would be a 950 building permit fee. >> thank you. >> commissioner diamond. we need on vote on this. we need a motion we can't pass our comments and the deadline is develop 12 i don't know we have more time that would be past before our next hearing
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>>il try a motion. and see how people feelism vote recommend this we vote for the approval i am okay about eliminating not eliminating modification one so long as the motion includes a recommendation for some type of art work on the gates in order to deter tagging. i would be in favor modification 2 although as long as the is cannabis we can sends out a notice to everybody. we have a list of the cannabis shops. i feel like -- we could would this work? in upon 3 years the recommendation you need a permit. any business this has a roll down door not compliant that is
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grandfathered in. am so -- this it is an issue that come up all the time when we have the provisions we say if you have a roll down door you can keep it but there has to be a record that it is a building permit you keep temperature we can try to you can say, when the city is noticed. or guest a notice out to all that may have a roll down they get the issue. you know folk who is have businesses on mission have i roll down door. may be are not paying attention and they don't know that it is illegal and now they can make it legal. but they don't know we will face this in 5 years somebody will have a roll down door they did not get a gate a per mist for. is it feasibility to do a
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mailing. i don't know how >> sure >> we can mail to every property owner in the corridor if you have a roll down you gotta comply. we want to work on that with the supervisor but the intent on notice businesses this i got a time limit to legalize. i'm in favor of that i think aside from us people don't upon pay attention that happened every week in planning. i greet we did our work by permits. it feels we should send everybody a notice and say you got 3 years that's part of my motion i'm okay with number 2 but 3 years from mailed notice.
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i agree with number 3. so that's for discussion. that's an attempt at a motion. i will repeat it. that have the ordinance with the requirement for art work on the roll down gates allowed for cannabis dispense easier the notification from the city and businesses have 3 years from the mailed notice to come and get their per notify have their roll down gate or otherwise allowed gate to be legal. and then number 3 would incorporated in the ordinance. >> yes. i will second this motion. >> commissioner moore. >> commissioner, roll up gates transparent or solid all have the mechanism a big box on top of the doofrm how are we making
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a distinction boy not supporting staff's recommendation the, of where this box is flush with the wall. how can we mech that recommendation today. >> the staff said it is in the in the ordinance but may be discussed at the board. that's what. >> sounds like we are approving the building with foundation has not been doneful it is basically a 2 legged stool and i would in the be able with insufficient informing it take that forward. i would like to modify my sxhoegz say i would like another recommendation that staff adopt design standards for the the box. gate mechanisms this is above the door. >> okay >> you want to respond to that question from commissioner moore. >> yes. could up respond top that. it is in the object itch it is a technical will question . of
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how you can insert this in the wall and flush with the wall it is impossible. >> the box in front of the window the box is easily that large depends think on the height of window. something you have to take the facade of the building apart to right head height. 2, the awning as a depth per missable by height overnight finished grade of the sidewalk. and, and, and. i think we got to clarify how things work before we create a lofty policy we may not be able to achieve what we are trying to support here. a practical comment i'm trying to make not in disrespect for need to create security and protection that question needs to be answered. may be the image we all have some an attive for this
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mechanism or this really. no. you will see gates where the architecture of the blgdz has an inset facade and the gate the neck niche can be flush. i don't have one present i was conscious of not using local xachls don't want to call out a that was has a concern illegal gate fundament walk throughout districts at night you will see some of the illegal roll downs. many. have to have i becomes this sticks out from the street. natural architect europe somewhere able to recede. they could install n this in the glass. this is another option. but. as many businesses prefer to install it outside this was brought up and made clear by the haight/ash best of your memoryef example. and so i believe why can the
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proirzmented to make sure you were aware that may be a consideration as an additional amendment to allow boxes to stick out >> i congress certainly the object itch state your names gets the idea you bring we have to think through it and say can you do it butt way do you it it is infeasible. that is worse off for a to bes say. yea as long as you demo the facade. you have can have your door that is not helpful. >> if it sticks out encroachment permit youor property line. >> that is another. >> sure. >> commissioner diamond or braun. am may be you have spoken?
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we can't address it easy low as time goos and see what works and technology and gate technology. do you have anything else. i will still have nile second for motion with that amendment. will mention is it, prove the proposed planning amendment with staff's modifications >> item 2, actually i think to eliminate recommendation one and instead insert language about the w >> reporter: for the gate. >> okay. we were eliminating recommendation number one replace with art work >> reporter:.
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and then for item 2, that the 3 year allowance would be from the date of mailed notice and a fourth modification to include objection design standards commissioner braun. >> i clarify one thing on the 3 year period this is the notification the no mass notification to the businesses. >> maimed notice for ground floorplan retail >> not notice of violation. >> good point. >> commissioner braun. >> aye. why commissioner diamond >> aye >> commissioner imperial. >> aye >> commissioner koppel >> aye >> commissioner moore. >> no. >> commissioner tanner universal aye >> that motion pass 5-1 with commissioner moore against. >> thank you. commissioners. thank you. why one more thing. since we have the roll down
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gates and art work you can look at legislation to expand the distance between cannabis retailers we think sick00 feet is too close. we talk about this a lot. did you approve that. was that you all. a version of us did. >> i was like wait. >> the yet for future legislation may be have the distance be a thousand or more feet. >> like you when you made the comment about this becoming a commission of cannabis. we felt thing that at the board of supervisors for awhile. we i was the chair of rules and that's where the majority of the debate was. and there was a lot of pressure not just from the commission but staff because when you locked at the monopoly based on thousand feet and based on the distance from scoops and the other requirements it really made for a very limited area. and so they staff tried find the right balance. in terms of thousands and 750500
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and there was a lot of debate. and -- your commission and staff and our board landod 600 feet. i understands in practice it it is a bit -- certain yours are experiencing higher volume. but that has more to do with proximity to other use that are not allowed. more to do with the proximity to schools and other disqualifying use wills know that's my big of the recollection because. >> yea. they did multiple maps if we remove this this , is the monopoly. if we remove that if we do thousand and 600 so. i'm happy to have further conversations >> we'll talk about it in the future >> thank you. >> thank you very much. >> we'll take a 5 minute
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break. is that >> good afternoon and -- welcome become to the san francisco planning commission hearing thursday december 8 of 20 twoochl we left off on the regular calendar for item 10. 2919-0162 the housing element. your left informational presentation. good afternoon president tan and commissioners. plan staff. we ever expecting this to the be the last informational hearing on the housing leadership. we foal we are getting close e closer to the end of journey.
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and closer to the next one to the housing implementation. we schedule third degree hearing to help you and help the public read through 2000 pages. a thus around of those are related to a lives percentels. so it is 1800 pages of documents. so we wanted to walk you through what is in the packet sent yesterday. got posted today and address any specific occurrence, questions or comments you might have. we also have staff upon on line if you need to check text or charts. so -- we give you an update where way are in the process.
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and the next steps. we will give you an over view of the road map of the various components and the plan and legal documents. share a high level of review when we heard. from the state. a reading of what you have instructed us to do and heard from the board of supervisors and of course, from public comment. and we'll provide you just a brief over view of how we are addressing all the comments. just before we jump in the content a reminder of this is our first housing plan it is center in the racial and social equity and he a plan that is proposing a specific actions to -- open new opportunity.
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so -- it is centered on racial and social equity gain. proposed to eliminate community displace am. address fordable housing choices. for across all our neighborhoods. and is connecting housing to the life of our neighborhoods through jobs and services and infrastructure. and as well as to the climate of the environment and health challenges. just i reminder where we have been and where we are going. this hearing is our informational hearing next week is our hearing for adoption. and then in january 10 will be the introduction of the board supervisors and on january 31st we will have a bilt of a with
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the support of clerk of the board -- will be adopting the mayor will be signing and we sends that to certification. on the 31st. first goal into an out lineup what you have in your packet. so this out line reflects the structure you need to follow for approval. there is a staff memo that it is longer than you but highlights the key components of packet. exhibits 8 focuses on the ceqa finding resolution. common b is the adoption resolution. and a of the draft ordinance is the housing element that is highlighted that is -- the project this is the big piece you are reading. >> we have a few other exhibitses the environmental
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justicing analysis. public input and an additional resolution for any shading further amendments. i'm going to focus hayou have within the housing plan. some of the key compoenlts. you know the foundation of the plan we started with commune out reach and we are closing with community out reach that has been a foundation component. this planful those 6 gray box other different requirements for this plan. so -- on your left you see the how doing assessment of fair housing we need to understand what are the disparities we have. who has housing instability, who didn't. then we need to eli have where we are. what was our assess am of the
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previous plan the 2014 housing element and the constraint what is is not allowing us to deliver the housing the housing affordability and stability that our population need and deserves. on the right is has to do with the physical sights an analysis of what land what spaces and parcels we have available and what are some of the guidelines for rezoning. there are 2 other documents that enform the development of the plan environmental impact report and the other one is the environmental justice analysis. all this leads to the 4 dimensions of the plan the goals which the over arching statement. the objectives. the policy and what we have been focusing on the most. and implementation actionless 'ves.
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i want to go a bit into the environmental justice analysis. the first time released the purpose of this report is environmental impact all the leaderships open space and the over all fining is that this -- update the plan in front of you would advance environmental justice. over next 3 years compared to where we are our assess am indicates that we are will not be raised the existing disproportionate environmental impact experience by black,
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american-indian and other communities of color material is a step forward but more work to do. i want to make sure you'd understand this analysis has been incorporated in the plan and will be informing the implementation of the plan. so now i want to provide an over view of who we heard from. you know we have been working closely with the california department of housing and community development. less as hard as this new plan guide lines and requirements are, i justment to acknowledge the good will we found in the staff working with us. we met with them last week. and we sent comments on friday. we met with them on monday. and so there has been an on
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going confirmation an understand happening that we are moving through a vary tight time frame. and there is a lot of willingness to walk through that. we foal we are closer they say in the fine tuning mode. so weure revising with specific actions. heard from the board of sprushz says had a hearing and working with the mayor's office. we heard from you and working closely and again a lot of credit to our colleagues from the city attorney they have been working over the weekend and night with var experiences to the questions. most important eleven members of public and community organizations have worked irrelevant hard to stay on top
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of the new actions were presented of the changes in the housing plan and we have provided a bit of a list ranging from the race and equity in planning coalition. japan task force. the council of xhounl health organizations met up and self help for elder low and others this we do want to acknowledge. there was substantial comment and we have been working really hard to go deep extending the comment and figured out the most appropriate way to incorporate them in the plan this it is a high level summary of when we heard. this 5 point again summarize wham we have been hearing the last mont the first one we can
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center the plan is on equity without funding for future uponable housing we'll go nowhere and there is a need to identify what is the land that we will have that we can identify. for that future affordable housing. we also heard loud and clear this communities need to be part of this not just the plan butt approval process. we need to make surety input is incorporated, there is an agreement and understanding that our [inaudible] a need to simplify. but we can do it with community input. there is also there was several comments in terms of how we will implement that who will take the lead? some comments from this commission, and what is the process of accountability you asked us to come become with more reports.
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and as well as seeing how we can move hilt the ground rung. so -- that has been also present in the other comments. there were a lot of comments not just from the state and groups about the stream lining of approval and permitting. we have talked about how it is long and are more expensive and there is i think there is condition census on how to make that appropriate. and the left one, impelementation of rezoning. there are eyeos how we doll this. what is the present scale approximate making sure that there actions that keep us accountable in terms of delivering the housing or adding
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rezoning or removal of constraintses. what i will try to doll is will go through some of the edits in the document by each of this category. and again, this is a bit of high level. you have the document with changes and the clean copy you want the details. in terms of affordable housing funding and lands banking, there is the -- there are multiple actionless that focus on accel rath the budgeting for affordable housing from this budget year. as well as adding potential funding sources and tools and vehicles to bring the resources. there is again, the concern for figuring out when the left-hand side could be available for
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affordable housing. and00 effectiveness and exconclusionary programs and then community property and the levels of affordability that we are considering in the plan. in terms of community based planning and input. have you heard from the community organizationers they want to be part of the process. we are draegsz that through the role of the cultural districts and have now 10 cultural districts that have the own board they have been working very on their reports. the cultural housing and economic sustainability strategy report them provide foundation for how we are accomodating more housing and bring stability to the existing housing. there is some several actions
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that address how to increase staff's allocation. as well as community capacity. 2 groups identified and specify exclude also there creation accelerateed match of next year. we were considering a year to do some of the work given the comments both groups propose march of next year. one is leadership group on funding. and that will include public, private and community organizations. the other one an interagency
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staff working group that will check in with the community organizations to really identify the a lot of w to do so there will be taking the lead on the defining the priority and getting traction on this. the state agency have been very forceful on how we address the [inaudible] housing actions. they ask for, lot of specificity in terms of the time. metric. they wanted a specific numbers and targeted for each of the actions and that's again alined with addressing it throughout the plan. there are also a number of reports that you as well as the other bodies requested terror preparing in order to track whether we are make progress and
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huwe are making it. >> 2 more areas the stroll lining housing approvals. you heard a bit about that. the interagency coordination to start go from the beginning to end of the projects it ensure consistency. to save time. to simplify the process we are also addressing the nondiscretionary approval for a number of housing types and situations. and its -- we have emphasized time and gwen this we are complying and proposing and committed to comply with the state program if you are know there are a number of state program in legislation coming to us and we are make a commitment to address those and also figure
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out how we can simplify our ceqa process if relationship to projects. the last one this support twhoon focus on what happens if we don't make enough progress? if we go through 4 years and we don't have enough building permits? and where we landed on was first claire fight zoning and again address all state requirements that -- were proposing that -- 4 years from the enactment of the plan if there are not enough permits there will issue zoning changes. and additional constraint reinstruction and provide analysis and implement objective design standards to simplify our
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code process and any other planning proposals. stow this is again a high mrefl sum row. and again thank you to our community organizations in the public for the input. and a thank you, this is a plan that is here. we made it all the way here. because we have very strong team. james and josh are here. but will ferera and lauren heeler are on line for questions you might have. this goes beyond this team. they have involved the beginning, the city wide team in figuring out how we implement. the environmental planning team, the commission team in trying to make sure you get information and time. the current planning team. and administrative team in bringing the funding needed for
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the out reach and all our per in agencies and the city attorney. so, thank you for your attention and we are available for questions you might have. that concludes the informational presentation we should open up public comment. member this is is the opportunity to address the commission on this informational item. if you are in the chambers come forward if you are tao calling remote press story 3 if youor web ex raise your hand. no members in the chamber we will go to the remote callers when you hear your line has been unmuted begin speaking. >> good afternoon president tan and commissioners. peter with mission economic development agency and member of the race and equity competence planning coalition. we want to thank the planning team for hard work on this document and their dill jenls as we work through the final phase
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together. [inaudible] on 2 key areas and ensure equitable housing leadership. meeting the goal and furthering fair housing requirementless. the on going loss of bipoc residence denials and african-american and well tinnose and filipinos and chinese community members facing increasing evictions make its clear the city is facing a fair housing issue. take care to make the situation work completing the ideas of removing general housing constraint, cost of land and materialless. maintaining our commitment to fair housing law and housing processes and culturaly based zone nothing ethnic encliffs. we can and must main tain both a
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timely housing press and also keep in fact our opportunity for bipoc community voices and protective processes. second, it is critical we launch in january an affordable housing funding working group with community stake holders to ensure the draft and execute plans to funds and build the 46,000 units of affordable housing calls for in the plan. the housing element can take a step forward through a strong commitment to maintaining all existing affordable housing fees including the inclusionary and state density bonus fees to ensure we meet the affordable housing goals and requirements. thank you. >> good afternoon i'm [inaudible] i'm with [inaudible] and a mfbt race and equity [inaudible].
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first we appreciate the hard work of planning to incorporate the recommendations in the housing element final draft of the programful support the [inaudible] the stability fund over site board. action asked of the housing leadership. as submitted to generate then million dollars in the fiscal year 23/24 an annual revenue source to assist the [inaudible] goals. however many policies within the other [inaudible] are deeply concerning. i worked with the [inaudible] the past mission and [inaudible] [speaker is breaking up] thank
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you. good afternoon. a mechanic of all planning coalition. respect and graduate tude for the hard w on the housing leadership. the people's plan honored our communities expertise we are architect and planners and experts in policies. we [inaudible] careers to engage our communities in policy and planning and senior, youth and [inaudible] houses and unhoused. when i went through the latest version of housing elements [inaudible] reflect grass root expert ease. this was emotional. reading the value for our
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communities [inaudible] actions [inaudible] reducing constraints finding low income and community of color or resource the developer made to off dealt the damage and displace am on communities. erroneous call thanksgiving's circuit breaker this is a community breaker. how many constraints will you intend to remove? [echo] feasibility what other constraints exist. resort to demolishing the communities so developers don't have to pay for those costs. read the pings in the documents in planning focus on action 8.1.5 through.8 all references
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to social equity under mines affordable housing and clear in violation of the legal frame w for furthering fair housing. i urge you it make revision to the implementation action and make sure the city is in compliance with the legal obligations to further fair housing and objectives to center on racial and social equity. thank you. >> hello, commissioners david with a mfbt coalition. thank you to planning staff encorp ritted the recommendations in the housing element. and i thank you shows how tenants and low income residence denial and communities of color for communities organizations hold the wealth of knowledge of xhounl plan nothing creating
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fordzable housing valuable in san francisco. further changed made to ensurety city is in compliance with legal obligations and preserve shared housing and build on the city's racial and social goalless. the housing element must put affordable housing first creating a funding plan in january not march to be red for the budget process. and also prob prop i funds recognized and included at the source of funding in the housing placement. some of the [inaudible] are report containing community planning affordable house and protection strategies. but [inaudible] several sections of the housing element under mine the work of districts across the city and endanger the ability to further fair housing.
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such issues include farther targeting inclusionary fees e roding the public input process. creating market rate rezoning and market rate housing stream lining and protections. we ask this changeers made to protect tenants and further the housing, thank you. n is tess at any time rep coalition. thank you for planning's work. we hope to see much more. in terms of especially getting the budget for affordable housing. we want to see the 46,000 affordable housing units be prioritized. get the land banking there and get the construction. otherwise, we will lose those
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cites to for profit housing. so -- please, work with ocd and -- work with housing developers and communities. so that we can avoid displacement and support our communities. we had a hearing at 7:30 in our neighborhood. and we found that our neighbors found out to the shock and horror that several of them did not have enough income or enough indm to qualify as low income. there is something wrong with this picture. zoe to address this going forward. people who worked all their lives in san francisco who contribute to the culture and the restaurants, the community should be able to live here. and the same for workers. thank you.
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i'm eliot with faith and action with [inaudible] i'm a resident of d6 currently 5 years ago my daughter and i were elfacted out the our apartment in dernl bernal heights. that made me a candidate for certificate of housing with my income i felt was adequate i found that san francisco of the only count in california where i could qualify for subsidized housing. i was able to get a spot in mission bay but what about the others. an after can american disabled mom with 2 kids and raised her kids in the same building she could not qualify and her income was too low and they moveed richmond. what about people like them.
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there were 2 others in the building one a well known latin x mission based artist and the other was wing for san francisco unified school district they did not qualify and moved on the east bay. think about people like them. please. protect us from continued displace am and the city becoming a play grounds for the wealthy and privileged youth. support city wide people's plan and invest in true affordability. thank you. >> go ahead. caller. when you hear your line is unmuted, begin speaking. >> all right. we will skip this call and go to the next one >> good afternoon i'm eric with
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[inaudible] cultural district and i a member of the [inaudible] i want to say i echo what david wu was saying. i want to talk about 2 sections of the housing element we have concerns with. one the fordable housing production section 1.2.11 states the dates including cal-trans will have opportunity for [inaudible] prioritizing affordable housing and land ded dedication if they are [inaudible] engagement required conversation left out of the communals. this has to be revisit and make sure we have an engage am plan. we need to remember the cultural
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districts provides economic and affordable housing strategies. that would be our recommendation. we need to take it to the section. under section 4.4.3, states that the cultural districts reduced cu authorization for other entitlement for mixed use buildings commit the district or legal agreement to inclusion of buildingses and institutions that the support the needs and identified.
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program in thes new draft this reduced constraints. however -- san francisco is not in what -- cal tranz department of housing are requiring which is that -- supposed to do an analysis of constraints and make changes based on that analysis. that analysis is -- almost always submitted before the housing element before the housing element is submitted. the draft says that the city will do this now and after -- adoption and that it does in the promise changes based on the analysis. and -- there is a mention of this possibility of -- midway through the planning process.
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>> known as the gay capital of america, san francisco has been at the forefront fighting gay civil rights for decades becoming a bedrock for the historical firsts. the first city with the first openly gay bar. the first pride parade. the first city to legalize gay marriage. the first place of the iconic gay pride flag. established to help cancel policy, programses, and initiatives to support trans and lgbtq communities in san
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francisco. >> we've created an opportunity to have a seat at the table. where trans can be part of city government and create more civic engagement through our trans advisory committee which advises our office and the mayor's office. we've also worked to really address where there's gaps across services to see where we can address things like housing and homelessness, low income, access to small businesses and employment and education. so we really worked across the board as well as meeting overall policies. >> among the priorities, the office of transgender initiatives also works locally to track lgbtq across the country. >> especially our young trans kids and students. so we do a lot of work to make
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sure we're addressing and naming those anti-trans policies and doing what we can to combat them. >> trans communities often have not been included at the policy levels at really any level whether that's local government, state government. we've always had to fend for ourselves and figure out how to care for our own communities. so an office like this can really show and become a model for the country on how to really help make sure that our entire community is served by the city and that we all get opportunities to participate because, in the end, our entire community is stronger. >> the pandemic underscored many of the inequities they experienced on a daily basis. nonetheless, this health crisis also highlighted the strength in the lgbtq and trans community. >> several of our team members were deployed as part of the
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work at the covid command center and they did incredit able work there both in terms of navigation and shelter-in-place hotels to other team members who led equity and lgbtq inclusion work to make sure we had pop-up testing and information sites across the city as well as making sure that data collection was happening. we had statewide legislation that required that we collected information on sexual orientation and our team worked so closely with d.p.h. to make sure those questions were included at testing site but also throughout the whole network of care. part of the work i've had a privilege to be apart of was to work with o.t.i. and a community organization to work together to create a coalition that met monthly to make sure we worked together and coordinated as much as we could to lgbtq communities in the city. >> partnering with community
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organizations is key to the success of this office ensuring lgbtq and gender nonconforming people have access to a wide range of services and places to go where they will be respected. o.t.i.'s trans advisory committee is committed to being that voice. >> the transgender advisory counsel is a group of amazing community leaders here in san francisco. i think we all come from all walks of life, very diverse, different backgrounds, different expertises, and i think it's just an amazing group of people that have a vision to make san francisco a true liberated city for transgender folks. >> being apart of the grou allows us to provide more
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information on the ground. we're allowed to get. and prior to the pandemic, there's always been an issue around language barriers and education access and workforce development. now, of course, the city has been more invested in to make sure our community is thriving and making sure we are mobilizing. >> all of the supervisors along with mayor london breed know that there's still a lot to be done and like i said before, i'm just so happy to live in a city where they see trans folks and recognize us of human beings and know that we deserve to live with dignity and respect just like everybody else. >> being part of the trans initiative has been just a great privilege for me and i feel so lucky to have been able to serve for it for so far over
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three years. it's the only office of its kind and i think it's a big opportunity for us to show the country or the world about things we can do when we really put a focus on transgender issues and transgender communities. and when you put transgender people in leadership positions. >> thank you, claire. and i just want to say to claire farly who is the leader of the office of transgender initiatives, she has really taken that role to a whole other level and is currently a grand marshal for this year's s.f. prize. so congratulations, claire. >> my dream is to really look at where we want san francisco to be in the future. how can we have a place where we have transliberation, quality, and inclusion, and equity across san francisco? and so when i look five years from now, ten years from now, i want us to make sure that we're continuing to lead the country in being the best that we can
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be. not only are we working to make sure we have jobs and equal opportunity and pathways to education, employment, and advancement, but we're making sure we're taking care of our most impacted communities, our trans communities of color, trans women of color, and black trans women. and we're making sure we're addressing the barriers of the access to health care and mental health services and we're supporting our seniors who've done the work and really be able to age in place and have access to the services and resources they deserve. so there's so much more work to do, but we're really proud of the work that we've done so far. [♪♪]
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>> good morning i'm so honored to be with champions of-in the fight for civil rights and getting the bill across the finish line. the respect marriage act is affirmation the united states will stand up and protect the freedom for all americans to marry the person they love. it is reflection of the fact that for overwhelming majority of americans across political parties back fp grounds and every corner of the country the debate for marriage equality is settled. it was at city hall nearly 19 years ago when our governor then mayper begin issue mayor license for same sex couples regardless of it consequence.
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