Skip to main content

tv   SFUSD Board Of Education  SFGTV  May 2, 2023 10:00am-12:01pm PDT

10:00 am
on april 25th 2023 at 504 p. m. yeah. and with that we will start our meeting and with that we will call for public comment on closed session items. do we have any public comment in person? no public comment in person. if there are we okay to move on to for virtual participants if anyone cares to share their public comment for our closed session items, please raise your hand. seeing no hands raised for public comment for a
10:01 am
closed session. cool then maybe that's just practice because we should do our roll call as we get things started as well to get the meeting started. could we do a roll call right now? please grow call? let's see here. commissioner alexander here. commissioner fischer here . commissioner lamb here, commissioner mohammadi. commissioner sanchez. commissioner wiseman ward. here. president bogus here. thank you so much for that. ah, seeing no public comment on closed session , we will recess to close session. >> first item is on student expulsion. i move number 202327
10:02 am
with suspended enforcement. can i have a second? >> second. >> may i have a roll call vote. >> [roll call] >> >> i move expulsion of student -- we have a motion and
10:03 am
second. [roll call] >> seven ayes. >> thank you, i move approval of the stipulated expulsion agreement of one high school student 2022-2023-29 with suspended enforcement. can i have a second? >> second. >> >> roll call, please. >> commissioner alexander, alida fisher, jenny lam, lainie montamedi, mark sanchez yes, lisa weissman-ward yes. >> 7 ayes. >> i move expulsion of one high school student 2022-2023 no. 30 with suspended enforcement. can i have a second? >> second.
10:04 am
>> >> roll call, please. >> [roll call] >> >> 7 ayes. >> thank you. i move approval of expulsion of one high school student 2022-2023-21. with enforcement action. >> second. >> [roll call] >> seven ayes. >> thank you so much. with that, we
10:05 am
will go to the report from closed session. >> in one matter of anticipated litigation, the board gave direction to general counsel. hold on one moment, please. >> in the matter -- sorry for the pause. in the matter of anticipated litigation, the board gave direction to general counsel.
10:06 am
that is going to conclude our report from closed session at this time. thank you so much. we'll transition to our next set of agenda items. >> okay, sorry about the confusion. we will provide an additional report out from closed session on one matter which is student ec versus sfusd and the board by a vote of seven yeses give the authority of the district to pay up to the stipulated amount in that matter.
10:07 am
we wanted to make sure we document that as well out of closed session. thank you for that. with that, we will move forward with our agenda to our consent calendar. we will at this time see if there are any public comment on the items that are on the consent calendar. if there are, we will make sure we have those cards and we'll take public comment. one thing i will also just highlight for this special meeting workshop is that we will not be taking public comment on non-agenda items. i just wanted to clarify that for folks as we are in this new process that at our regular board meetings, we will take public comment on non-agenda items at the workshop. we will only take comments on items that are on the agenda. so just to be clear. but if you do want to submit a comment to us, regardless of
10:08 am
agenda status, you can do that via email or contacting our board office. all that have information is available via our website. do we have any public comment for the consent calendar? >> >> is there anyone who would like to give public comment? no public comment. >> moving on to our virtue participants. if you would like to give public comment on our consent calendar, please raise your hand. another gentle reminder, we are not taking public comment on non-agenda items. this is for the consent calendar. seeing one hand raised. sarah? public speaker: yes, hello. >> hi, yes, i wanted to speak on student outcomes and college and
10:09 am
readiness. is that part of the consent calendar? it's on the agenda? >> it is on the agenda. we are not on that agenda item now, but you can raise your hand later when we are on that agenda item. >> thank you. apologize, continue. >> no worries, thank you. that completes public comment for this item. >> thank you. we are going to have public comment for the public after the workshop so that folks will be able to actually comment on the discussion and the presentation versus before hand. i think just to document that for folks. i think with that, we will take -- yes, if we can have a
10:10 am
>> roll call, please. >> so moved.. >> second. >> thank you so much. >> [roll call] >> seven ayes. student delegate hanson? >> yes. >> student delegate kyle casheda? >> yes. >> thank you for that. next item consent calendar retroactive contracts. can i get a second? >> so moved.. >> motion and second. >> second. >> okay. is there any public comment on this item?
10:11 am
>> do we have any public comment on the retroactive contracts? >> no public comment. into the -- please raise your hand for virtual callers? no public comment at this time. >> thank you so much. >> roll call, please. >> >>clerk: [roll call] >> seven ayes. >> thank you so much. >> with that, we will move to
10:12 am
item f which is where we will begin our workshop on student outcomes, progress, monitoring, college, and career readiness goals. i believe with that, the board will take a moment and reposition ourselves around this table and reconvene. i will ask members of the public if you have any audio issues to let us know so we can adjust this need be. just a moment to get set up.
10:13 am
10:14 am
>> why don't we get started. >> thank you, president kevine boggess. committee. i would like to give the chance of the workshop to introduce themselves. >> superintendent of high schools. >> hi, everyone.
10:15 am
it's nice to see all of you. [ laughter ] teresa, director. [inaudible] >> good evening, everyone. executive of college and career readiness. >> nicole -- curriculum instruction. >> so when you are talking, although we can hear you, it's good to use the microphone so at home they can hear. this is our second student outcomes focus workshop with our data with a practice run with aj who is online as well in january. as a reminder, we actually really aren't expected to be doing these until the 2023 school year because we are still putting strategies in place, but we know it was important to kind of build the habit of engaging
10:16 am
in progress monitoring, so we have committed to doing this for the remainder of the school year. i really appreciated at the last meeting we had a lot of discussion on our literacy goals. at the end, there was a general sentiment of appreciating the discussion and wanting to be open about our progress and where we are facing challenges. i think it was commissioner lainie montamedi who wanted to hear where we haven't hit our mark and where we are going. so i wanted to start off with some reflections about this report before we go into this and hitting areas where we maybe didn't hit this target this time and wanted to hear our thoughts about that. we got 35 questions from board members about the progress monitoring report. so, this is
10:17 am
like a learning process for all of us and what needs to be included and prompted a question to our team about how we effectively engage in progress monitoring and supporting this one. i want to give you a chance to share a general thought and then i will give three brief reflections. >> thank you. as you know we have been working on literacy for three years and when we met the last time we came up with a lot of information from that particular area which is a journey that many of you have been on with us and as well as partnership as well as many of our community members. >> just to recap in some ways, for literacy we've had an audit,
10:18 am
community meetings, we've met with different stakeholder groups, we have conversed with our school sites about literacy and worked with other departments within sfusd. so we came what we believe is a pretty comprehensive idea and plan about how we want to move literacy forward. so we have new goals in college and career readiness. and i think it's safe to say that our past priority has been around graduation rates and we do so across many populations. the goals challenged us and i think that's good and it challenged us to look at some of our programming more specifically and how our programming is landing with our
10:19 am
students and accessing the programming and meeting the needs of our students with the different college and career pathways. so we are in a different place with literacy and we want to own this upfront. our work is going forward. how are we going to engage our stakeholders much as we have with literacy and connect with our community members and school sites around this work and what is our plan for expansion in terms of meeting the goals. i wanted to state the landscape that it is a different scope of work and we are excited about that work and how we can move forward. i appreciate the board being with us as we move down this road. thank you. >> so, there is the three specific reflections, one is around interpreting the data. another is around developing the
10:20 am
plan and the third is around focusing on depth over breadth. to focus on the data, with literacy and math, there is different variations of it with different interim assessments but with this one we are using three different data points with our progress and measures and need to spend some time understanding how to really interpret the data to get the why which was missing from the report the why. with literacy, we have the audit and the experience and our assessments on the line and we weren't spending enough time on foundational skills. that's no. 1. no. 2, we have a college and career readiness team here and this is one where the program is district wide, but the activities happen at the school. and so, we are in the process of
10:21 am
actually it's not necessarily an audit but we have a lot of information that is just coming out about what's happening at our school through the high school task force. we have some of you were there, we had 16 high schools had teams represented at mission high where we had real thoughtful conversation about what's being offered at our schools. that can really inform this and we need that connection with the schools, one, making sure that we are developing the plans and our understanding on what's happening. lastly in terms of the breadth of our depth, we have three interim goals and when we do the progress monitoring next year, we are not going to talk about all three goals every time, but actually talk deeper about one of the strategies around the goal rather than try to put in so much. we listed seven different programs that we are doing, but we didn't go into too much depth
10:22 am
about any of them about why we think the program is going to change the outcome. i just wanted to share those upfront. the team is going to walk through the report now for about ten minutes and we will highlight somewhere we thought there is more information to share why we think this will make a difference. then it's the rest of the time for discussion. >> so i'm going to open up here. we are going to draw your attention to the data 3.2 and 3.3. one of the observations in that data is that we have a flat trend in both of those areas. we are not seeing the growth that we would hope to see year over year. and what we have thought about what are the structural changes that we need to make from our end to meet the college and career readiness goals that have been set.
10:23 am
we have been narrowing down our focus on the three areas that joanna is going to get through. >> before you speak, if you can restate your name. >> joanna psychics # sykes, college and career readiness. stating all the college and career programs that is run district wide. two of the ones i wanted to highlight, one is around credit recovery and particularly the precoverary work that we are planning to expand. so historically we have offered grants to specific schools in order to help students pass their courses and high school graduation requirements. but it's been to certain
10:24 am
schools, not every school depending on site needs. one of the intentions for the upcoming year is to build a team so we can build some precoverary courses that covers all the high schools. so we want to start with our ninth grade and getting their 1st quarter grades and those already getting a d and f to get those going. the second highlight is our partnership with city college, our partnership started in 2016, and we have been working very closely with city college to improve our partnership and in particular in this last year, we've had a few retreats with them with dr. priestley and there and the chancellor and
10:25 am
vice chancellor and really moving forward in our partnership. i have been with this department for five years and doing more enrollment classes for this year. it's taken at least five years to get that. we are excited that we are going to be able to expand access to dual enrollment students. those are the two that i wanted to highlight for this particular piece. >> i think the other thing to share, we have for people's reference the interim goals and guard rails in march and you gave some feedback about the interim and to me to incorporate but those need to be finalized by next workshop and i will come back with them. in the report you may have seen we talked about adjusting the interim goal for 3.2 and 3.3 which is around the credit recovery and the participation in the pathway. that's another
10:26 am
area where we recognize the trend is flat and didn't want to communicate well. so if that's the case, we'll just change the goal. but in the spirit of these smart goals if they are being realistic, what we recognize to address those goals it is going to take some structural change in our high schools because for credit recovery, these kids need time to recover the credit, to make-up the courses. with our schedule there is not much time in the school day. do we need to provide more time during the school day, provide more online opportunities. these are the areas we are trying to study in this path course and we have some pathways and wall to wall pathways and no pathways. so with this task force, we are going to provide more information and where we do and
10:27 am
if we don't, why we don't do it there. we are going to get recommends in september and they are not going to happen next year and maybe we can do some program and credit recovery and that was the idea for 23/24, knowing we need to be on target for our ultimate goal in 2027. i wanted to share that point as well. with that, we'll open up for discussion. >> it seems that people aren't able to see the boardroom just the interpreter on zoom. so to see if we can promote aj to
10:28 am
panelist. >> we'll check that. can you promote him? okay. i just got a text that people can see things fine. at least from one other person. now let's see. there we go. people are using the question and answer inside zoom to lift up that problem. i appreciate it. that is used for folks who are in need of the asl services to communicate with the board. i think we are at a place where we'll open up to conversations and questions from commissioners and student delegates. maybe
10:29 am
we'll start with our left. >> no pressure to go first if you don't want to. >> we are asking commissioners and folks to limit their comments and asking folks to keep your initial comments to a minute to a minute 1/2, and we'll assess where we are at collectively and move from there. >> i had a question about dual enrollment in city colleges. given that classes are giving students an edge and wondering if there is a way to specifically target schools with a low number of app course offerings? >> that's a great question and how we focus on dual enrollment
10:30 am
is for schools that don't have some of the more advanced courses and the other opportunity is building with studies and pathways with city college since that's going to be a requirement as well. that has been our focus where their programming is needing for more advance opportunities for students. >> off of what raquel said for dual enrollment classes, i was wondering if there are any support systems in place for high school students registered for dual enrollment students. >> we have a whole team that are supposed to do that with counselors and tsa's and they actually hold the application and registration sessions at the high schools at each semester and for summer as well. >> that would be from your classmates if you have idea. if we are doing that and they
10:31 am
are not hearing it, how can we make it easier, what are you hearing from them? >> i think a lot of students do know that dual enrollment exist and a way to gain credit for colleges and build interest in certain topics, regarding the registration system exactly is confusing for the average high school student and confusing for how to connect. i think a lot of students know there is a support system for them. >> thinking along the same lines if there is already at schools, it's up to the school to advertise in the school about hosting those workshops because i never knew they were coming to my school site. so maybe working with counselors on that. >> i registered for a class a
10:32 am
year ago and there was one person to help me out and one person for like 20 students and hard to connect with her and hard to get information. so i think making sure that students know they are getting individual support and students are able to register for classes would be beneficial. >> speaking of dual enrollment, how many students are offered courses this year and what's our goal to increase it and who are our students? where are they coming from? >> we have in the fall we had a little less than 600 students participating, throughout the year it's over 1,000. we are at all the high schools except laurel and soda right now. we have dual enrollment at soda,
10:33 am
but it's not happening this particular year. and it varies in terms of courses. sometimes it's in pathways and sometimes right after school or during the school day but not the pathway. >> do we have the demographic? >> we do have that data. it's included in one of the attachments where it says dual enrollment. we do have that. >> okay, active, thank you. >> i will just say in terms of the demographics, it's one of the things we really try to work on in terms of matching the demographics of the schools and who is participating in it and the demographics of the district and really trying to focus on our population and engaging them and being able to support them more actively in the classes so they can be successful. >> my question is what's our
10:34 am
goal? with the thousand students this year? >> it all depends on how many courses we are allotted and we have been allotted ten more courses for this next year. it depends on the school it goes to and depends on the minimum of 20 kids and the max of 35. so it will vary in terms of how many students can register, but that can be ten more classes. >> thank you. >> commissioner lamb? >> jenny lam: just on the enrollment, curious on the strategy and what happens at the school site with counselors particularly around college access as specifically if you for example there are students that are interested in stem in college and not quite sure what in stem, how does the student
10:35 am
engage in their program as you think about the trajectory for college exam and college preparedness? >> it's a little tricky in the sense that the counselors at the school sites are not completely dedicated to complete access. in fact there are only two that are dedicated for active college counselor. that is a little tricky. we have a college program and there are 11 providing support to senior students. in terms of your question about dual enrollment, when we are going into a school site starting on student enrollment program we do
10:36 am
feedback and surveys and what they are interested in. of course there is an array of students providing this interest and what do they want. but we also offer programs for just general dual enrollment so it's not in the school, but the students can opt to take it at city college and we promote certain courses in each of the areas. >> can we have a point of clarity, i was looking for the demographic breakdown for the dual enrollment. i didn't see it. if we can circle back to share that out, if you can screen share. i'm not able to find it and interested as well to see if it's attached.
10:37 am
it will make sense for us to come back to it a little bit later. >> we are not jumping around. >> i'm interested in the starting point of high school readiness. some identification of six percent of students are not tracked and 40% of our eighth graders are not ready for high school. so i appreciate the early remediation stuff that is being taken in the ninth grade, but i also want to better understand
10:38 am
to ensuring that we are intervening and supporting earlier and a hand off. this is really i consistently heard from high school administrators and educators is that there isn't a system of students ready on track and how are we working with our middle school. >> do you want to take that? >> what we have been doing is we have following -- in the middle
10:39 am
schools we are creating a dashboard and making a line to the high school readiness as well as the early warning indicators. this year in the fall, we have been looking at students who have been getting d's and f's since the attendance rate is below 86% and students where the suspension rate is like what it was as a suspension. so we have been showing that this year, but prior to that as you know in this p initiate wonder we have put in courses to accelerate the students and it's in the works. we want to see more next year is how do we track what we are doing just to see which students are making progress, how do we at least support the high school college
10:40 am
readiness as well. >> is this available across all the middle schools? >> it's starting to be. right now it's about ten schools with the redesign, but we are hoping to move it to 13. >> follow up question? >> where is the engagement in that process and working with families and very often they are the ones coming -- for help and support when the kids are in this situation. where is the parent education? >> the initiate wonder what we call the middle grades in 2005. so there was full on engagement for families, communities, teachers, as well as administrators to really -- >> that's your asking it, right?
10:41 am
you are asking where the engagement with families when the kids are offtrack? >> right. i can give you handful of examples right now who would have loved to have wrap around support right now knowing that their kids are offtrack and where the families are located. >> right, we have the process of sst's, iep's as vigorous as we want and still working on that as well. >> i think one of the questions was and i don't know if we have an answer this to but related to the data. we have this early warning indicator for eighth graders and when they get to nine grade and look at their attendance in each grade, but there is probably a precursor to that and you can say we have early warning
10:42 am
indicators for six grade into seventh grade. >> you are looking for coherence. >> yes, for us to think about how to address is that if by eighth grade, to identify that precovery work and maybe it's too late to provide additional support. >> the follow-up to that, that school site personnel. very often that happens at the school site without family involvement and the family is the key to getting their kids to school on time, helping with the homework. and very often they are out of the equation.
10:43 am
>> can i just ask for, but there was a major discrepancy in the starting point of high school readiness that i didn't in the q and a, i didn't address. it's 6%, not ready versus 40% not ready and those are both district communicated data points and i'm trying to understand as a commissioner how we are supporting the student population and how we are assessing their readiness when they come to high schools and focusing on career and college preparation? >> let's see if we have an answer for that now. we did get this college data around dual enrollment. this is the first round. >> other too want to appreciate
10:44 am
the work that's been done here and appreciate you all for acknowledging where those are. i think i asked that question and about kind of why, i guess one thing i want to note first to my question is even hearing your comments now, i'm hearing the tension between things like how many questions are a lot to us or only three of our schools have college counselors. that's the current reality. one thing i would love to hear from all of you is what would it take to meet our goal. i think that's part of the why and what we really need and here we are and better than chipping away at the edges to say, hey board, you really need xyz if we
10:45 am
want to get to this percent. and the question leading in that direction, do you have an analysis or anybody have an analysis for cultural or social where we are leading to this college readiness. is there any analysis of the current conditions that would be helpful to share with us? >> to be college and career ready with the different career pathways. we have recently put together a matrix of what's in all of our schools and the high schools look at that. do you want to share? >> yeah, going back to how this started the way we are measuring used to be around just
10:46 am
graduation rate. now we just did so much learning and unpacking with our principles and partnerships with college and career and even understanding what that dashboard is about. so for example, those schools, i will give an example of downtown high schools does a ton of base learning and all these different things that in our mind would qualify as the same value as what's on the dashboard but it does not count because it's not with city college. if you have the relationship, the ways that things are defined on the dashboard and the vision around that was happening at certain sites. we have to look at what are some adjustments that we might want to make and where we are going to say that is the data that is going to be because what is
10:47 am
being measured is this value and we may not want to change the program at a particular school. some of it is around the dashboard that is new around these measures. another example would be the otc and that gets points onto that dashboard, but we need to make sure that we were coding students on that trajectory the same way and making sure we have the system set up. in the same way we went through all the course descriptions and the course titles actually match. so one piece about logistic cal tech -- technical piece and so
10:48 am
you need to have a certain amount of threshold and students for class. if it's small, you need other solutions to partner with the hub like we have now with some of our schools. there are other things that we are working towards but size is one of the differentiators around the matrix of courses. there is the difference between a site that has 2,000 students and how many ap classes they have. we are mentioning a lot of solutions around the report to ensure how many students can have access to these opportunities and that's going to take a lot of restructuring and really kind of thinking differently about what we currently have and working out some of those barriers. i feel like we have a lot of creative minds looking at this right now and there are going to be those opportunities that are
10:49 am
going to open up and will be excited to come talk to you about. those are some of those differences there. if we look at the indicators around ap courses and staffing and some have changed such as the biliteracy and you have to be proficient, there is a high literacy around scores and we are understanding those measures better. >> for one comment with the data when we were adopting the goal and i want to say that in my opinion, i'm really concerned where the high school can't keep
10:50 am
doing this program because of the goal and the measure. we were not passionate about this measure, we were passionate about our kids being ready for college and career. if the measure is not the right measure and impacting the system that is not good for students, then i advocate that we remove the measure. that's one comment. secondly, what was asked about, you mentioned school size and there is research around school size in small learning communities that is more likely to get path course and the course access and the small vision and relationship that as you know is at the core of making sure kids actually pass those courses. >> so that's the area that we are exploring right now and looking at things where students are attending other high schools for certain courses and that is
10:51 am
being piloted right now and i can share more about that. the issue on that is how can we do a similar transportation model. our students that are able to offer the hub, there is actually vans that come to their school sight because we can't wait an hour-and-a-half community to go across town. we are looking at a partnership between laurel and jordan and a conversation that we are engaging with right now and there are things that we can resolve but looking into all kind of creative solutions to that. we need to look if we are going to go into researching virtual platforms or things like that, and i wrote about in the report that's going to require us convening a team and looking and really talking about what that
10:52 am
would look like to offer courses. specifically we are looking at ap elective courses in world language because it's our basis from all high schools and those are the areas that you see that vast difference, if you look back to that course matrix, that's where the students are saying they don't have the choice and that would be our focus area in terms of solutions moving forward. >> we are going to vice-president lisa weissman-ward. >> thank you. i had two specific questions and the first relates to interim goals in increasing enrollment for pathways from 26% to 36% from june 2022 to june 2024. i can imagine that having confidence in a job for dual enrollment in the pathways and if you can advise and share
10:53 am
whether we are promoting post graduation for opportunities for apprenticeships and building trades and hoping that you might be able to provide some examples for that. that's question one. >> thank you for that question. >> so we have two choice programs in particular, one at washington and one at o'connel. we are also working currently and meeting with office of economic of workforce development and bcyf for more building opportunities for transitional students and we also did just get a grant of the california apprenticeship implementation grant and building a tech prints --
10:54 am
apprenticeship this year. what we found in communication with hr from the city is that their system is so complex that the students need more support in order to secure the job. we are trying to do more around our students that are graduating and providing the support while they are transitioning. in fact that's one of our goals with the sales force grant for the transition to use that five years to use that more effectively. >> thank you. i appreciate it.. for that model, it wouldn't be dependent on a school having a particular pathway? >> that's correct. >> okay, the second question, receipting to the guardrail 5.3 in the report for the students and internships and would love to hear how sfusd is ensuring that every school site and every
10:55 am
student has access for opportunities for all. what percentage of sfusd students are participating and how and what are our plans to ensure that that number goes up. that amazing resource that is not known about as much as it should be and wondering about that i think relates to our partnership. >> in terms of one of the biggest challenges of increasing the number of internships is finding placements in industry. so a lot of our partnerships, they want one or two interns. we need to find over a thousand placement of industry partners which we could do possibly. we can definitely increase but it would be the staffing of that one piece for teaching students how to be teachers or wanting to work with youth, how education
10:56 am
was used and in terms of city program, also i was in this workgroup about how it's not the entire city is not well organized for all the opportunities for our youth. so we actually started a team this year to start working on that to make sure that if they are producing something, how are we advertising it to our students, if we are producing something. so it is something that is on the horizon in particularly working together with the city more intentionally. >> i was at an event last week and they have 30 internships set up for us but they said there is a problem with our mou and the department will not allow us to.
10:57 am
so we have bureaucratic road blocks preventing kids from getting internships. how are we addressing things like that in breaking down those road blocks and giving kids more access? >> that is a great question, and both our city legal and our legal have not been able to come to an agreement and i asked what was needed and that was the point that we need our mou's approved to be able to do this. i'm not a legal advisor and i don't know what the issues are but they can't move forward. >> i was not aware of that. i'm going to look into that. >> okay. >> i didn't know that was a barrier and i know the city wants to. i think we have to figure out, there is a mutual interest there obviously and we have a goal to have more internships.
10:58 am
so we'll see if we can do work on that. additional questions? >> i would like to hear the breakdown about the dual enrollment. >> my name is jade a, the policy management. i'm going to give the breakdown for 2021/22. we had 1421 students taking dual enrollment courses, african american students 4%, chinese american students, 45%, latin
10:59 am
students 4%, white students, 6%, southeast asian students 3% and others 12%. >> can you read those again. >> sure. slowly. so total students, 1421 students taking one or more dual enrollment courses with city college. our african american and black students 4%, our chinese students 45%, filipino students, 3%, latin x students, 26%, white students, 6%, our southeast asian 3%, other 12%. >> we have similar data for our internships? >> yes, i can provide that at a
11:00 am
later time. we have that information. additional questions and comments from commissioners. >> first of all, i cannot express my gratification for dual enrollment. any other daughter went through the path way at mission and it led to an amazing internship and it led to great leadership opportunities and i believe it is a part why she got into the the uc's. thank you. >> just the collaboration between city college and district for that was amazing. not to mention because i know it's mentioned here a little bit
11:01 am
but frankly, i think that's a huge part of why we have such high numbers of students at mission high school that get into uc's. part of that, who runs the program. he spent the entire year working with them applying for colleges, writing the essays, you know, helping with finding the money for the application needed for everything. the deposit when kids can't come up with it because financial aid hasn't come through with it. i think a big part of my question is around special education. one of the things i noted in my
11:02 am
experience is we have a lot of co-classrooms and don't have many opportunities for students to access all the different math programs. what we see in a lot of our schools is the number of classrooms that are so limited that all the kids in a classroom end up being kids with iep's that make it a special education class again so it's not inclusion. i'm just wondering especially when we talk about access to courses and where that's going to fit in here to 12 percent of students with iep's. so how is that going to fit in some of our lowest graduation rates and readiness [inaudible]
11:03 am
>> to speak about it, in terms of our dual enrollment and especially in the summer, we get a large number of students with iep's and we have parents and teachers to be supporting them. during the school year, really the recruitment is more on the school site and dependent on who they are encouraging to register. that really comes from them a little bit more but we do provide the support as much as we can. and then also during the school year, sometimes it becomes a little bit more difficult if for example like a dual enrollment class is embedded in the school, ideally the school is provided a point to that teacher to be able to to support the students in the course and sometimes that doesn't fit into the master
11:04 am
schedule. >> i also wanted to add in summer we make sure there is that opportunity to include all students specifically in structures to do in summer so it doesn't necessarily fall into the school day and we are able to provide a lot more support and more access to summer programs. >> and not just dual programs but all the programs, yes. >> thank you for sharing the dual enrollment program and i see there is a misrepresentation some of the students and in the breakdown, is there further efforts to target these underrepresented groups for under enrollment and ap enrollment? >> one of the things that we did
11:05 am
in particular for ap enrollment and we did a pilot. our first pilot in spring break and we did a pilot for ap math, and we did a program for that in spring break where we have students from o'connel and balboa where we had 40 students participating and preparing for their ap exam and all were targeted use. this was a pilot where students had great fib and teachers had great feedback and we were able to provide similar things and similar programs, and we are doing another one in the summer so students able to register in the fall and for students to have this support to be successful in ap. in terms of dual reinforcement for the school sites where they are registering students for the dual enrollment piece.
11:06 am
>> another thing we have done is this summer and we have been working with ally, the avid team and a lot of stakeholders to make sure we are expanding the accelerated for geometry. this summer we have 12 sections and making sure we have support throughout that program and really making sure that access is there for all of our students, exactly what you are talking about. as we know that if students are successful in accelerated geometry they are open for open enrollment and ap courses. >> you reminded me that over the summer we will is do special cohorting of internships for students for example, the
11:07 am
california nursing academy and take our seniors that are going to graduate in the spring and in the spring we are taking them and bussing them to this northern california medical academy and they graduate with an actual job. that goes through the summer program as well and we offer different types of programs and dual enrollment and internships for african american students. >> so typically, throughout the document, a lot of the current outreach focus is on ap math courses, i'm wondering figure that's going to expand to other stem courses and also humanity courses? >> that's the intention especially around the precovery work to being able to support them in getting more advanced courses as well.
11:08 am
>> going around to these resource allocations, i would like to better understand the position and targeted opportunities in how those are being developed to being communicated especially now that we have see how the court matrix -- course matrix and the clarity and not just what's on-site but what's available. we had a couple of former students that made suggestions for online access for course work and other suggestions similarly around tutoring, for example. going back to resource allocation that is sufficient and then targeted. we hear about a lot of different
11:09 am
programs and although those are communicated and understood. >> you are naming two different issues. first which of those programs are we considering baseline and offered to all and to certain groups for certain reasons. i don't think that's in the guardrail that we commit to defining, and second how are those programs being communicated at the schools and that's more, with us being proactive and ensuring those are available to students. we talked about this matrix is one is referring to the high school task force helping us define about what we want to offer and ensure and what would be differentiation. the ear where we are going to be talking
11:10 am
about is are we saying this is baseline for schools. some schools have two college counselors, some have six college counselors and make school-based decisions from resource allocation perspective we need to start defining the baseline for counselors, and then schools have to make the decision if we want more we are doing that and not this. it's a long way to say more to come. those areas where we are looking at. >> do you have a sense of the timeline of how you are tracking that. the reference to the high school task force is relevant, but the one input, and we now have full support matrix and more information and developing careers. >> yeah, i think that the changes that are not majorly
11:11 am
structural where we are talking about defining in programs and courses, we'll get recommendations in september and we really need to have recommendations to the board by december, because then we give our budget allocations, we need to make staffing decisions and this starts in january for the following school year. when we talk about being able to offer, let's say we are expanding our schedule in anyway, that would be the year after. if we say for example, balboa, they have looked at it and feel like they are able to offer the career pathway, but that definitely is additional resources. and we'll take, looking at what that will take and providing funding if we are going to do that. >> can i just ask a question to our panel. i'm just curious as you understood my obsession with the
11:12 am
course major and curious now that they have that available, are there areas that you were surprised to see things that it prompted you to focus more on or that were validating to things you already knew. i'm curious if there is anything you would like to share because the first time we have seen this in a decade in a public way. >> so, we are unpacking that very diligently with our site leaders, the high school lead teamworking together with the team of counselors and on this team here to really look at that. the notice of what i shared is the big difference is around ap elective and world language. you can track on there. so there could be a student at one school that's a smaller school that may have one visual arts elective option, and if they went to a different high
11:13 am
school, they may have 30 options. that's not an exaggeration. so that is vast and that's why when we are looking at out of the box ideas moving forward, that's why it's in those areas. and that's not focusing on those baseline classes that everybody has. so, that is what has prompted getting this working group together to look at both the going off site option, doing the internal online option, so one of the nice things that we have structurely now is we have for comprehensive high schools is the common start time. we feel like as we make structural changes, we are really working, we need to have the system in place. so if first period, for example, everyone starts at 8:40, that would allow for if your first period at one school is 50 minutes and another school is 60 minutes, we can accommodate a
11:14 am
course offering for that first period class and give or take those ten minutes maybe in the library finishing homework and we have that common release time and organizing those structures to be able to do that. i would expect in the next year, we will be able to really have many more offerings in those three areas and we have to figure out what we are going to tackle first and why and if we move and explore a virtual format which would work the best in that format, obviously like a ceramics class is not going to be very good, so we need to work that through and with the labor partners and with the technology piece because when you have the teacher of record, the teacher that gives the grade, we have a lot of learning from the pandemic of how we need to, that was a chance for us to really think outside of the box. we'll have to do that again where we think through where we
11:15 am
have a teacher of record, for example and a teacher from o'connel teaching a course of first period to students, how do we figure out that synergy and working on the structural pieces. there is a lot of them and it involves labor, technology, all of these different things. i feel it's very possible to working through that. i definitely feel like in a few months we'll have more updates and it's an exciting project for how we are looking at and the students are also looking at that matrix and they are having noticing things that didn't have before and what is possible. if you are an eighth grader, you may not know all different offerings that were possible. >> yay. thank you. i really appreciate that. i will the next course of the
11:16 am
matrix offer athletics because athletics program is an important way to keep our students engaged and motivated to keep their gpa's higher. >> yes, we are working in collaboration to do a completely revamp and really excited about not so much the high school, i don't want to call it high school enrollment fair but doing their own type of fair where we'll be doing workshops with families and students and help them choose their path around the offerings and representation about programming and have middle school counselors there and staff that families are familiar with, all kinds of community partners are there available looking at those
11:17 am
factors and doing workshops on attendance. i think a lot of it too is building the awareness. not everyone reads the matrix or enrollment guides, things like that. so we are looking at creative ways to have a really exciting event where we can really engage for a longer period of time and working in a more personal formality format -- and working with families and also going with our special education programs and that has been a feedback point too is looking at this guide that families have had to call different schools one by one and they don't really understand and we can bring those teachers from those programs to really explain this is what it's like in our schools and what it feels like bringing students to speak to it. >> thank you. that is heartwarming.
11:18 am
i really appreciate all the work that you are doing. thank you. >> other questions from commissioners? commissioner alexander? >> yes, i am curious going back to the main goal, the measure of the main goal that we are at 58% on the state measure. are there, and i'm sorry, i should have asked this in a previous question. are there schools that are significantly better than 58%, and if so, what are they doing well? i'm curious about ours, what are we learning about what works? our district? >> for the readiness before high
11:19 am
school? >> for the readiness for graduation. >> if you don't have the ap courses or the cte or any of those things, if you don't have some of those things in place, then your measure as a school is going to be lower. >> so this measure produces results about access to course work? >> yes, course work and then also for example you may have ap classes, but in order to qualify or that measure you have to pass. it's both success in those areas. even to say actively recruit students and increase is the level of representation in these courses, you have to make sure that they have the full support plan that all students are successful otherwise that would not change the measure at all. >> right. >> i was wondering what we are
11:20 am
learning from this. does that make sense? >> yes, and how much you offer is a direct correlation. >> we need to do more to see what are those, what we are learning from our schools about what's working. >> i will try to frame it so we are looking at strategic questions. >> particularly on graduation and maybe becoming a smart goal. i wanted to dig a little bit deeper to that goal around 3.2, around end of year and on track
11:21 am
to graduation, as staff's recommendation. i wanted to dive a little bit deeper around understanding what are we learning from the covid particularly alignment of resources because we've also received funding both federally and level base on what we have for support and the plan in the next two years around how to support in showing that our students are on track around course requirements for meeting the graduation. am i making sense? again, i think it's really trying to glean to the level of what strategies are working and how
11:22 am
are we aligning those resources currently and our future plans. >> absolutely. a little bit is to be very honest is the celebration of the school. for years, we've celebrated publicly through articles, we are graduating more students, we are doing this. but when you really dig and when you look at this goal, if we are graduating our students and that are not atg ready what are we doing and what are we celebrating and what work to put forth. exactly. we are building a team and looking at precovery work and reading a book called "make it or break it year" it's on the ninth grade year and truly looking at students whether they are passing their classes and making sure they are ready and meeting the goals. we are pulling all of their grades, our plan for next fall,
11:23 am
we are pulling all the grades for our students in the algebra 1 course. the grades are submitted, we pull it, we go and say, thank you, we are celebrating this many students and passing algebra one but these students have a d or f and what are we doing right now? in december, we don't see f on those report cards and doing that intervention then. we have to start in ninth grade through action like that. so it's not even necessarily looking at overall a-g. it's what are we doing to make sure that when the student is enrolled that they don't need to then go to our credit recovery. we have credit recovery down. we know how to do credit recovery. our data is wonderful, but what are we doing so they don't have to go to credit recovery.
11:24 am
>> what are going to be the strategies to then at the credit level and will require at the site level to be able to meet that going forward. i'm curious to that strategic approach. >> we've learned some lessons. the first lesson we learned is we tried to do this precovery last fall and we handed out lists of students. i will be real. i handed out lists to students to say we need to make sure these kids don't fail, let's do this, i called parents, trying to do all of this. that's not the problem. the problem is we need the support to go into the school site and work with the teacher. i can't change the grade, i can
11:25 am
have as much lunches i want but i can't change the grade, the teacher can do that. we need to meet with the teacher and build that relationship for that to happen. >> thank you, that's what i wanted to understand. >> i tried and failed. i have a new plan. >> just a comments around this workshop approach and really understand what's working and what's not and how does the superintendent work district wide around those affected strategies? >> i think what teresa is talking about is the idea, this goes back, i don't think i expressed this clearly upfront saying in needing to learn more about what's happening in our schools, it's not just what's happening programatically in our schools but also what's happening in the classrooms in
11:26 am
our schools. where are our kids engaged and being talented and successful and where are they not. we are overall at the district, we have instruction on coherence called the rubrics which is i have it right here on my computer. it answers the questions of culture of learning, academic ownership and we are asking prek to 12 that is another key factor here that we event spoken too much. >> there is other things that i'm learning about where you had
11:27 am
something in the past and this used to be a practice at this school and maybe the principal didn't know about it because when the principal came, that talent shifted. so it's important we work towards systems in high schools that all schools do. julie has been coming to our high school principal meetings, our assistant principal meetings, hand in hand going through that data together answering questions and preparing our site leaders to go back and have conversations with counselors. what we are looking towards next year for specific times of year like all high schools like a counselor shutdown week where everybody is focusing and prioritizing meeting with students and taking phone calls as we were doing during the pandemic and where we did the family support, like to
11:28 am
trackers. bonus trackers. so we have that support and find out what additional support we needed and build this into the school schedule that we can track and have all the families that we have met and spoken to because it's really impossible to respond. so we need to systemictize and collaborate with them about what points do you share are options for schools and pathways for graduation and what student is it not appropriate for because
11:29 am
they can make-up these courses within their existing school or based on their age. we need these standardized scripts because students are often getting a range of guidance that is different depending on who they talk to but as we look at those talking points, we feel like we can get a more coherent approach and what we are ready to put in place next year. >> i think we'll have additional comments and then we'll see if there is any final comments from commissioners. >> [inaudible] >> it's in the report. >> thank you. >> thank you, commissioner. >>
11:30 am
>> thank you. i appreciate that and we've out reached to reach more schools and partnered we have everett e middle school. >> do you see difference in schools? >> yes, we worked really hard and now that round one placements are done, we outreach to all the high schools to let them know about our avid students and let them know about field trips for avid schools for our students and make sure that is a partnership and relationship we build right away. i did want to add one more comment about avid because commissioner fisher had been talking about her experience with avid or her students experience. last saturday we had 13 of our seniors that were in
11:31 am
avid accepted to uc merced and # accepted the offer. we took them to merced for the first time. it was incredible, the bus broke down but we were able to get them there and they were able to experience the campus on saturday. >> can i just ask a clarifying question about avid. >> it feels like there is more demand than space and what do you feel is the capacity for what we want avid to do? >> to be honest, i could investigate that a little bit more but i don't see the difference between demand and space on my end. i definitely hear from parents demand, but when it comes to
11:32 am
actually signing up for the classes and this comes down to that master schedule, we don't see the demand for signing up for classes. as a parent, yes, i want all of my students in avid but when the rubber meets the road and you are doing your course request, we are not seeing the demand so much. >> how does that out of those dots connect especially with the younger students who may not understand it's an abstract concept. >> in sixth grade -- >> there are recommendations. yes, it's a whole application that is essential for avid, there is a whole identification process, and we absolutely do, especially in the middle schools and making sure the families are aware.
11:33 am
i'm excited to hear more about it and also going to follow up on the idea that there is more demand than space because i'm curious about that too. >> i would say that a lot of the components that are offered in avid is what a lot of students and parents are hungry for and what is not meant in other ways in schools. >> that i hear and we are actually addressing that through our summer focus group and fusing avid strategies as well as our new financial literacy grant into our college and career course in the ninth grade. yes, that i absolutely hear you on. >> apologies. >> i have a priority question.
11:34 am
for the low-income students through avid because i know it's part of the application process. >> the avid application process and identification has its own process that they go through and we do really try to make sure that any students interested in avid that they are given a spot in avid. so, yes. >> we also have avid for our long-term schools.
11:35 am
>> i'm curious if there is any sort of quota that we should keep in mind when it comes to ap offerings or performance factors into and the performance rating and how limitation at each school like soda or washington for classes for schools and how that affects each school's performance and ratings. >> i can respond to that. those caps are different at every school and the course load and research around that, and also thinking about how they can ensure that the most amount of students at their school can have access to their ap classes, depending on the size of
11:36 am
offerings if they have more interest in courses, they need to limit the amount so not all students get to have four courses versus another student not getting into those classes. that is very specific in the master schedules and has led to why that has been occurring at some schools because either ensuring that those that want to take those questions have access and also considering the course load and mental health. >> more of a process question, whether what factors into schools and college readiness. rather than overall courses or tests taken in the past, if they consider how many students are active in that total number of courses taken? like 300 courses
11:37 am
taken overall. >> like how many students are accessing what's available at the school site? >> yeah, does it take into account if each class is taken into consideration by the student population or just a few. >> you can see the demographic data, i would have to look into that more. i will write that down. >> the question that i have was in the strategy and the document about the sustainability and
11:38 am
effectiveness of the program and having model and if there is in sight and if you can provide on that and with our budget now, with preenrollment, all of those strategies that outline kind of where we see the progress we have made and how we are projecting that specifically as well. >> it really varies by program, infections, credit recovery, avid, some of, well, most of the credits in avid fund the district and certain federal grants. pte internships and dual enrollments are all grant funded. so we are constantly trying to raise money for it. so it really depends on a yearly basis if i have for example a private funder now who is paying
11:39 am
for our internship for summer 2022 and 23. after that, i need to find more money. summer programs are not fiscally supported in order to continue expanding. so would you say that our strategy is for funding for four years at a time? >> that's correct. >> that's good to know. the next question i have and this may be more for the superintendent. the historical struggles of achievements and opportunities and what historically they are going through and what led to change of graduation requirements and the black and
11:40 am
brown students taken off the college trajectory and moving forward knowing that the interim goals in the measure don't really focus on individual groups as a whole and is that something we are taking into consideration, how are we wrestling with it and are we assuming that we are going to see equal growth in each of the categories as we move forward or more expecting to see greater growth in groups that are further behind or is that outside of the focus of what we are doing? >> i'm going to let
11:41 am
superintendent wayne take it. i agree with all of that and we need to make sure that we are looking at our targeted youth and students that we know we are not reaching. hpi is a great example. this summer in particular, we are making sure that we are partnering with each group to see what can we do to make sure that credit recovery is happening. i'm not talking right now commissioner about a-g. but what are we doing to make sure we are getting the graduation rate and working with the various groups for ally whatnot and at the forefront of making sure that we are reaching and doing the affinity groups and that they are building those relationships through the
11:42 am
community. >> >> i think that's well said and your question for reflection and part of the goals and guard rails with the cascading alignment and we have been working with ally and the initiative and special education to have that alignment. if it's not explicitly stated in the goal, that group is not identified, where are we showing that which is the question i'm thinking because our strategies, speak to that, but we are not speaking to that in this progress monitoring report. so let's reflect on that one. >> before we go to other commissioners, thank you to staff for responding to that and the legacy of that and the district as well as what the
11:43 am
current data is telling us about how we are serving those students for the amount of attention being paid to it from staff top to bottom. as we get ready to close out this portion and move to public comment, we will give each commissioner the ability to have another minute for providing comment if you like. then from there, we'll transition to public comment and go from there. so we'll start this way and go around and see where we end up. >> first of all, i really appreciate the framing and about this literacy and why we have targeted these interim goals there and we are at the
11:44 am
beginning of the journey here with college and career readiness. so, i guess my question to you all strategically is really where do you want to dive deeper, what can we as the board give you and the schools, how do we help with this critically important deeper dive to catch us up with the great work that you have done with your team to do that from a literacy standpoint? how do we bring this up to speed? >> i think quick answer is one, just continuing with this progress monitoring and staying committed to this process holds us accountable and two, i think this high school path forward is critical and coming out and engaging with them and who put
11:45 am
out this recommendations, we have to do something about it and credit recovery. as we are preparing the budget, we need to answer. how much is being invested in there and how much do you want to invest to meet all the qualifications. >> we have mr. alexander with the last question or comment. >> i think my encouragement to you all is to keep looking inside the classroom. we actually have a pretty good handle. you have some great programs. these programs are really well done. obviously we need more resources
11:46 am
but having an idea of what's going on in our classrooms that the black students and asian kids experience and all kids experience. to me there is something there. i would love to hear you come back to say here is why what is happening in our classroom to change to bring this percent. >> before we close i want to say thank you to the team. i think you know how i feel about the classroom and college career. >> this question is similar to the pathways because i want to recognize again the staff recommendation that this is going to be a revised smart goal
11:47 am
around we are significantly offtrack and this goes back to -- on commissioner alexander and the commission overall, but what are we learning at school sites, what analysis has occurred and what is outstanding to learn about ultimately the alignment of resources system wide and site levels that are necessary to meet the growth and going to the why? why does it matter to our students and learning. >> there is a lot for us to think about for our next steps.
11:48 am
>> okay, with that, we'll end the workshop portion. >> [ applause ] >> thank you for the questions. thank you to the students for participating. [ applause ] >> before we transition to public comment, i would like to apologize to the public for not being able to see the full board. i believe that is resolved and hopefully we can keep improving on to make sure that we have audio access and video access in the board chambers. i appreciate all the folks if that was an issue for us to address. with that, why don't we see if we have any public
11:49 am
comment in this space, and then we'll do the same virtually and take it from there. >> >> i will call karen, justin, and sophia. you have one minute to speak. public speaker: good evening, congratulations on the course matrix, it's really awesome. we need to have college access and internship programs. i encourage sfusd to connect each high school with a dedicated college access program like the mission graduates and mission high school. previously our consultants to
11:50 am
scholars and outstanding eighth graders who encourage students to go to college and for many colleges and non-profits in san francisco and students had to travel to other locations throughout the city to access their services. i think it's better if each high school had a dedicated partner provided services on site or nearby. secondly, there used to be a non-profit meeting to coordinate and trouble sheet and i encourage you to continue doing that. as guardianship rail, everyone needs an internship and i encourage you to develop learning plans for every student. thank you. >> public speaker: thank you, board, i just wanted to say that i think that words matter. i'm raising four latino kids and one african american kid in this district and when you over exaggerate racism all the time,
11:51 am
it makes kids not want to try as hard. i teach the kids that we went from 4% inter-racial marriage when barack obama was born to where there are many ethnic groups, every single group that has studied make more money than whites >> they keep you downtown -- down no matter what. that is not true in japan that outside groups can make more money than the natives if they work harder. your job is to make sure that you study more hours. you should encourage kids to study more instead of blaming
11:52 am
america. >> thank you. that's your time. >> public speaker: hi, jeff lucas. i appreciate the content of this meeting and still a work in progress and still learning here. this is a practice session, i appreciate that. the reminder. i would urge you to look at root cause and analysis and when a kid goes offtrack, it's not in high school or middle school or maybe in kindergarten when they are chronically absent from kindergarten. separate topic, there is a lot of data online at the california department of education, one of the things that they have is for each high school, for the percent of graduates that completed the a-g
11:53 am
classes, if you look at that data you will see why disparities amongst the different high schools and you can dig into that. my time is up. that's it for tonight, thanks. >> public speaker: good evening, everyone, sophia. i want to thank you for the metrics. my son starts high school. i also want to comment on the path ways and really encourage the district to develop and keep as many different pathways as possible. children have many many different interests and we want to be sure they can find their passion and what they are good at. i'm glad about this. i hope that you will continue to encourage this stem and pathways and also outdoors with the huge
11:54 am
environmental issues and people prefer that to an indoor environment. finally, i wanted to comment on my concern about the obstacles the district has put in the way of especially kids who are trying to do more within the district. i think a good example is math and algebra making five years in math in four years of school is very tough for folks. thank you. >> now we'll go to virtual public comment. >> i will call kicke and then sarah. go ahead, please.
11:55 am
>> i'm sorry. i really didn't have my hand raised. thank you. >> okay, sarah? public speaker: i'm muted, i'm sorry, can you hear me? >> yes. >> as a parent who went through the pandemic knowing my child has learning losses, one of my biggest frustrations was not knowing where those learning losses were and not having the plan that i can work with my childlike in the summer and in the off time to try to catch them up, and we know that we are having a big problem having children not being ready, students not being ready to enter high school. and i don't understand with all the technology that we have out there, why we don't have
11:56 am
connected to tests and assessments, a program individualized for every child that they can go on to learn what they missed so they can hopefully catch up and parents will have a tool because as parents, we are lost. we don't know what we are supposed to help them with. it just seems with all the technology that we have, you can go on to prodigy and it will have your kid and tell them where they are in the curriculum and what they need to work on and what they need to do to be able to pass it. i don't understand why we don't have that support for all the children in sfusd. thank you. >> thank you. >> that concludes virtual public comment for this item. >> >> with that, we will reconvene to -- the closed session at this
11:57 am
time. and we will also dismiss our -- [inaudible]. >> i committed to george washington university in >> [ applause ] . >> there is nothing to report out from closed session and i adjourn this meeting at 1025. >> [ meeting is adjourned ] >> >> >> >>
11:58 am
11:59 am
12:00 pm
over. committee it's april 27th 2023. we are going to start with roll call. member catalano here. good morning. remember cunningham denning? absent. vice chair, d'antonio. absent member frieden bach. president chair williams, president. so again, we do not have quorum, but we're moving to the land acknowledgment, so we acknowledge that we are on the unseated ancestral homeland of the rama to chalone, who are the original inhabitants of the san francisco peninsula as indigenous stewards of this land and in accordance with their traditions, the rama tuchel only have never seated loss nor forgotten the responsibilities as a caretakers of this place. as well as for all peoples who reside in their traditional territory as guests. we recognize