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. okay i'm sorry my screen is blank up here and their screen is blank as well so maybe we can check with us gov tv sure your agenda would have stranger what do you say? okay we do presentations presidential do you want to start we do have the screen up

here where do you want to wait until we get the screens in front of us next? >> i think we i think we can start with when we get to the matter right. we can pause because we the parent is joining us via zoom. so okay so we'll get the preliminary matters out of the way. good evening and welcome to the february 26, 2025 meeting of the san francisco board of appeals. president trasvina, you will be the presiding officer tonight and he is joined by vice president j.r. eppler and commissioner rick swig. commissioner lopez will be absent tonight. also present is deputy city attorney jesse minority who will provide the board with any needed legal advice at the controls is the board's legal system our long way? and i'm julie lamar, the board's executive director. >> we will also be joined by representative from the city departments that will be presenting before the board this evening and tonight we just have one representative caitlin azevedo, deputy director of the san francisco entertainment commission.

>> the board meeting guidelines are as follows the board requests that you turn off or silence all phones and other electronic devices so they will not disturb the proceedings no eating or drinking in the hearing room. >> the board's rules of presentation are as follows. appellant's permanent holders and department respondents each are given seven minutes to present their case and three minutes for rebuttal. people affiliated with these parties must include their comments within these 7 or 3 minute periods. members of the public are not affiliated with the parties have up to three minutes each to address the board and no rebuttal. mr. long way our legal system will give you a verbal warning 30s before your time is up. since the board has a vacancy only three votes are required to grant an appeal or to modify a permit or determination. >> now public access and participation are of paramount importance to the board and as of gov. tv is broadcasting and streaming this hearing live and we will have the ability to receive public comment for each item on today's agenda. as of gov tv is also providing

closed captioning for this meeting to watch the hearing on tv. go to s.f. gov tv cable channel 78. please note that it will be rebroadcast on fridays at 4 p.m. on channel 26. a link to the live stream is found on the home page of our website at s.f. dawg forward slash b away. now public comment can be provided in three ways one in person or two via zoom. go to the board of appeals website and click on the today's hearing date. public comment can also be provided by telephone call 1669 968 33 and enter webinar id 865 3827 0170 and again s.f. tv is broadcasting and streaming the phone number and access instructions across the bottom of the screen. if you're watching the live stream or broadcast to block your phone number one calling in first all star six seven then the phone number. listen for the public comment portion for your item to be called and dial star nine which is the equivalent of raise your hands so that we know you want to speak. you will be brought into the

hearing when it is your turn. you may have to dial star six to unmute yourself. you will have three minutes and our legal system will provide you with a verbal warning 30s before your time is up. please note that there is a delay between the live proceedings and what is broadcast and live streamed on tv and the internet. >> therefore it's very important that people calling and reduce or turn off the volume on their tvs or computers otherwise there is interference with the meeting. if any of the participants or attendees on zoom need a disability accommodation or technical assistance you can make a request in the chat function to hour long way the board's legal assistant. or send an email to board of appeals at etc. borg now the chat function cannot be used to provide public comment or opinions. please note that we will take public comment first from those members of the public or physically present in the hearing room. now we will swear in or affirm all those who intend to testify. please note that any member of the public may speak without taking an oath pursuant to their rights under the sunshine ordinance. if you intend to testify at any

of tonight's proceedings and wish to have the board give your testimony evidentiary weight. raise your right hand and say i do after you've been sworn in or affirmed. do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? thank you. if you are a participant and you're not speaking please put your zoom speaker on mute. so item number one is general public comment. this is an opportunity for anyone who would like to speak on a matter within the board's jurisdiction but that is not on tonight's calendar. is there anyone on zoom who wants to provide general public comment? please raise your hand. i don't see any hands raised so we're going to move on to item number two. >> commissioner comments and questions. >> miss lora i'm advised that we didn't have the camera on before. is that are we are we getting yes. >> i believe the people on zoom and the public can see it's just it's our screens right in front of on the dais.

>> right. so so we're ready we're ready to go in regular order then. yeah. yes. the public can see us. it's just for the convenience of the commissioners. we don't have the screens. they still mine is still black jurors. >> it is. but if the public is if we're square with the public then then that's great. >> okay. confirming. yeah. media services is working on it. and mr. ben-veniste, can you see and hear us? yes, i can really. thank you. okay. thank you. oh, no, i can't i i'm sorry. i cannot see i can yes, i can see s.f. tv government staff. yes. okay, great. thank you. just wanted to confirm that. okay. so we'll proceed. >> are there any commissioner comments or questions? nope. okay so we will move on to item number three the adoption the minutes commission is before

you for discussion and possible adoption of the minutes of the february 12th 2025 meeting moved to adopt the february 12th 2020 five minutes. >> okay. is there any public comment on the motion to adopt the minutes ? okay. i don't see any so on that motion to adopt vice president eppler i commissioner quick i so that motion carries 3 to 0 in the minutes are adopted. >> we are now moving on to item number four. this is appeal number 20 5-006 habibie lounge versus the entertainment commission subject property 26 six street appealing the approval on january 24th 2025 to a baby lounge of place of entertainment and extended hours premises permits with the following conditions one food service until 5 p.m. daily two indoor entertainment thursday through friday 5 p.m. to 2 a.m.

saturday 11 a.m. to 2 a.m. and sunday 11 a.m. to 10 p.m. three outdoor amplified sound on rooftop terrorists allowed sunday through wednesday 11 a.m. to 10 p.m. thursday 11 a.m. to 11 p.m. and friday through saturday 11 a.m. to 1 a.m. not to exceed eight hours daily and for at least one security guard working thursday through saturday beginning at 6 p.m. until the business closes . five patron queuing lines for entry shall be directed up sixth street in a way from stevenson alley. six patrons shall not be permitted to smoke or loiter in stevenson alley clear seven clear anti loitering and no smoking signage should be posted and staff and security should actively monitor stevenson alley to keep it clear. eight sound abatement internal limit approved at 98 dba 1 or 2 dbc maximum measure just inside the front entrance to the left and nine permit holders shall control the volume of outdoor amplified sound so that the

master volume does not exceed 3.5 on the speaker dial this is permit number ec1828 and we will hear first from the appellant mr. ben-veniste today welcome. he is joining us via zoom. you have seven minutes to present your case. >> thank you very much. thank you to the appeals board of appeals. >> this is my first time doing it so it's give it my best shot here. >> i want to thank the board of appeals for hearing this appeal. my name is joe mitchell ben-veniste i'm a licensed architect in the state of california who is working with ali, the owner of the b.b. lounge. he's not here tonight to get through the seemingly complex entertainment commission permit process as well as some other items. i'm helping ali out with. >> a habibie lounge is a middle eastern restaurant that took over a space that has been vacant for about three years previously and probably the toughest block on sixth street between market and mission. i think we all know about the open drug use and generally

tough conditions there but it's something that you know, i think should be experienced firsthand for for context on this matter of of really the context on the ground at this location there constant sirens all through the day and night. really tough situation and it took ali a lot of courage to invest in openness establishment here a quick check of the yelp reviews will show very positive reviews for the food and the and the service at this this is there's no alcohol served it's minority immigrant owned it's a probably a place that a lot of folks here won't go to because of the location and because you know there's tvs playing playing loud arabic music videos. >> but for a lot of people in the bay area it's a great place for community and good times are i think made clear in the brief i don't believe at the hearing process was fair for a few reasons. >> before i address those in response to the x brief i'd like to quickly address a few items from the ex brief on page

four of entertainment commission presented you the same and accurate information that it presented to the commission. >> at both hearings it stated that page four of their brief it stated that habib lounge didn't have a health permit as of september of last year and that they didn't have an assembly permit from s.f. fire department. this sounds really bad and you'd probably think that a b.b. lounge is an incorrigible bad actor is probably the commission thought when they heard this but the information regarding the health firm to operate is just flatly wrong. habib lounge received his health permit to operate on august 8th and i. i had a i can share my screen to show a confirmation email from the health department if that's yeah that's fine. >> please go ahead and do that. i okay i mean you have that screen up there okay let's pause our the time passing the time so i'm showing an email from mary for mr. ben and we need a pause because we're

having some technical difficulties on this and we want to make sure we can see your email. so one moment we're pausing your time. >> i apologize for the interruption. >> as for 16 okay we have it now. >> okay. it's just a simple one liner. yes. they had it on august 8th of 2024. so thank you. initial information that and then the other item you see mentioned is that we don't have a assembly permit and that's true. two occupancy is required assembly permit from fire department. but in this case we're not an e two or a b because we are 49 or less occupancy so that simply doesn't apply. >> so both of those items of background information they presented you regarding agencies in s.f. was just they were both just wrong, flatly wrong and then misleading, you know and it seems similar to them telling us they didn't have to issue later determination and that you

know, we would just have to kind of wing it, you know in filing our appeal and figuring out what we were a few months you know, in their in their in their brief it's it's followed by a few pages sort of outlining how easily inspectors visited a baby lounge on a basically weekly basis and you know they basically were crushing a business the middle eastern restaurant and sixth street with an employee who was playing middle eastern, you know, kind of pop music and taking requests from people and you know, we understand what the rules are. but this was this this was very tough for the business owner and it remains the business is struggling at this time. item number one and you see his response. they mentioned i just want to note that there were two commissioners not present at the first hearing in december including the president and i you know, we had one letter of

support and it seems clear i mean it it seems revealing to us that the entertainment commission doesn't refer to anything it said in the letter any of the content of the letter. they're referring to a phone number and an address at the end of the letter officer marshall referred to himself as very commercial, you know and so for us very clearly we hope that the the board the board agrees with us that they were not using their official capacity in the in this recommendation and also they in item number two they didn't address that the our position that not informing us of the dismissal of this letter harmed our ability to make a presentation at a they don't address that you know clearly if they had told us and just repeating sort of what's in my brief we could have we could have had the letter amended etc. etc. we had no idea of it until afterwards and there was no also to understand why they didn't communicate they made a

decision not to communicate to us any of this stuff. >> item number four it's a little contentious. we do understand the requirements for notice we did issue in excess of 300 notices in a timely manner and to the best of our ability in order to have our hearing expeditiously . our position per the brief is that everyone everybody understood the great efforts we were making to notice the residents of the senate hotel many phone calls, many emails, many in multiple in-person visits three of them and then when they finally received it i think made this outrageous claim which was disproven and the email that i attached because obviously everyone knew what we were trying to do that they had no idea what we were trying to do with the notices they they didn't know and so they they frankly used i believe that they weaponized the notice process to gain leverage and to delay the hearing and and you know, they played horrible with us. we had a better relationship with pratibha after the first

hearing was continued. but we're deeply discouraged that you see understood what was going on and they basically aided in our belief they aided this weaponization of the noticing process to delay our delay are hearing and to to to present false information to the commission on an item number five it doesn't seem like the ac staff is has directly addressed our claim and again i have to rely on that. you see we weren't speaking to that the police department but in the hearing itself deputy director acevedo responded to a commissioner question and said something to the effect of you know, ignore the suggestion they had asked the p. s of pd if they could think of any conditions suggest and you know if they do that for all you know it just it seemed to us clearly that as a pd didn't really feel strongly about that they just sort of suggested

something and we add to that that you know, again we're in c3g zoning it's the most liberal six street is incredibly low at night and our outdoor amplified sound levels are set by the e c so there shouldn't be any nuisance to neighbors as it's set to be at ambient levels at our property line. >> so i don't think that's time . >> thank you. thank you. you'll have more time in rebuttal and if you stop sharing your screen we'll see a full view of you. president trasvina does have a question though for you, mr. ben-veniste. >> the thank you, mr. ben-veniste for your for your presentation. i have a couple of questions for you. thank you. first is the only the only matter that you are contesting is the closure time for entertainment being 2:00 instead of 330 for two days of the week. >> correct.

that's for the interior. yes, that's correct. and for the exterior i believe there was an additional oh yes. >> that's right. >> that's correct. it's just for the interior for one hour. so so we're talking 90 minutes on two days of the week. >> that's right. >> and my question is do you know what the economic impact is on your client for not being able to have the entertainment during those 90 minutes? >> what i mean specifically do you have any estimate of business loss during that period of time or afterwards? like if you don't if you don't come in to do i understand your question. >> i do not have an estimate of any hard numbers there. i'll just say that as i think i mentioned in the brief, the bread and butter of habib lounge is a sort of after the last call crowd because they don't serve alcohol but they're just they're kind of gets some of their bread and butter and that's where they make most of their revenue is in those

sort of fairly late late night times where people sort of are in that part of the city and see three g zoning and leave the bars and could sort of come and have some late night food that mr. is that you've given me the answer that that that i need the second question i had is about um efforts i guess where other people stand on the issue of 2:00 or 330 you or your client made efforts to reach out to the tenderloin housing clinic. are they in agreement on record as supporting 330? that is correct that the 330 we are we applied for five a m and their initial response to us was to wingham and we through through meeting and negotiation with the

tenderloin housing clinic we came to a signed agreement or they clearly signed off on a 330 agreement and and perhaps you can also speak to that and they're speaking for the seneca hotel residents is that they're speaking both for the seneca and they were also speaking for the owner of the adjacent hotel on the other side of the windsor hotel. >> that's right. and they have their commercial but they're also there's also i understand now some great residents. >> okay, great. and the last question i had i'll ask ms.. acevedo as well but are you familiar with officer when do you know what his connection is to knowing about your your facility? i'm not thank you very much. >> okay. thank you. i don't see any further questions so we'll hear from the entertainment commission. all right.

>> good evening, president trasvina and members of the board. my name is caitlin as a vito and i'm the deputy director of the entertainment commission and i'm presenting on behalf of executive director maggie wyland who's out sick tonight. i'm here to defend my commission's decision to conditionally grant a place of entertainment or permit an extended hours premises or permit to habibie lounge with a 2 a.m. end time for indoor entertainment friday through sunday morning instead of their requested 3:30 a.m. and time for the same day's the time based permit condition is necessary and justified due to habibie lounges repeated noncompliance with the city laws failure to adhere to permit requirements and disregard for regulatory enforcement despite multiple educational efforts and citations, the commission acted fully within its authority under police code which explicitly allows for reasonable time, place and manner conditions. >> the entertainment commission was established in 2002 and is responsible for regulating entertainment, outdoor amplified sound and food

service after 2 a.m. we are a small team of just five staff members and two part time field inspectors yet we oversee nearly 800 active permits citywide. of note there are only 70 7hp permits in the city and only 51 of them allow entertainment past 2 a.m. while the rest are for food service only underscoring that late night entertainment is a regulated privilege not an automatic right. >> the time based permit condition imposed on the appellant's permit is not arbitrary. 2 a.m. is the standard and time for entertainment for all poll permits and the condition is a safeguard due to repeated and blatant violations which are outlined in our appeal brief and what i'll touch on now habibie lounge first came under our radar when inspector when an inspector responded to a311 sound complaint in real time on august 25th 2024 at 1:30 a.m. and observed loud unpermitted indoor entertainment and outdoor amplified sound on their rooftop. >> this began our education and compliance efforts with the business between august and december of 2020 for

commissions staff engaged in extensive outreach including ten onsite visits by inspectors providing in-person education, numerous formal emails detailing necessary compliance steps and an hour long intake meeting, reviewing and all all of the permitting requirements . >> yet the business continued to violate city laws. >> they were found operating without a permit on september 8th and september 14th resulting in the issuance of a notice of violation which was intended to bring the business into compliance without penalty . but despite warnings and outreach efforts, the business ignored permit requirements leading to escalated enforcement actions on october 20th and 27th the business hosted unpermitted entertainment and outdoor amplified sound resulting in an an in an initial $100 citation and subsequent $300 citation. >> on october 23rd they finally submitted a plea and each p permit application and during their intake meeting i explained the permitting process and documented it with a follow up email including the option to apply for a one time

permit to legally host indoor entertainment while awaiting their plea and each key permit hearing. >> but the business again hosted unpermitted entertainment just three days later on november 8th leading to a $500 citation on november 14th the business obtained a one time indoor event permit for 12 dates beginning on november 15th and during a compliance check on november 16th the business was playing unpermitted outdoor amplified sound and instead of issuing another citation we reeducated on the permitting requirements. on november 23rd they secured a one time outdoor amplified sound permit for the rooftop until 10 p.m. for the same 12 dates as their temporary indoor permit on december 1st at 12:42 a.m. our inspectors observed amplified sound playing upstairs resulting in another $500 citation and on january 1st 2025 at 12:25 p.m. after clear warnings from the commission at their december 17th hearing the business was still playing outdoor amplified sound resulting in its fifth citation in just three months. >> ongoing violations of this nature are egregious and the

pattern of repeated willful noncompliance made it impossible for the commission to trust the business to operate responsibly without permit conditions, the appellant claims we dismiss their only letter of support. however, while the letter was omitted from the digital record, all of the commissioners present at the december 17th hearing received a physical copy for review. the exclusion of the letter was what was lawful based on article 15.1 which gives the commission the authority to weigh evidence. and frankly we were concerned that the letter authored by a self-identified s.f. pd officer using an s.f. pd address and phone number risked being misconstrued construed as an official endorsement and could be problematic for the officer and as a pdf included in the public record the appellant made various claims and insinuations about collusion between the sc s.f. pd and community stakeholders but the communications they described are all part of our standard permitting process. specifically i'd like to address the assertion that we fished s.f. pd for an hours restriction.

however we're required to share all of our permit applications with s.f. pd for their review and consideration and although s.f. pd recommended a 10 p.m. cutoff time for the outdoor amplified sound, my commission voted to approve a one time on weekends. however, since you are reviewing this to novo you could choose to adopt s.f. pd suggestion with the daily end time of 10 p.m. for outdoor amplified sound. they stated that the sc overrode staff recommendations and unfairly issued multiple citations but the reality is that my commission has full discretion to impose conditions beyond staff recommendations based on compliance history and public interest considerations. >> i'd also like to note that they did not appeal any of the five citations and they paid all of the fines our hearings excuse me. >> and lastly, the appellant states that we refused to issue them a letter of determination following their january 7th hearing. but our hearings are recorded so the appellant immediately had access to a clear record of the commission's decision and i sent them an email with the next steps written out on january 9th and an official letter of determination was

issued to the business on january 24th. >> in conclusion we believe that the board should reject this appeal and uphold the commission's conditional grant of the po an e h p permits with the existing permit conditions. thank you. and please let me know if you have questions. >> thank you. we have a question from president trasvina. thank you. thank you for your presentation. i'll start with the question that i asked mr. benjamin. >> i'm sorry. no, no, no. it's just please, please. okay. well, i will defer to commissioner swick since i've already had a chance to ask questions. >> go ahead. can you call media services and let them know that commissioner swigs or hand raising functions are not working? >> commissioner, because i invite you to go ahead. please go ahead. >> thank you for that. that. so i'm trying to package this.

what i've here's my mike on. >> yeah. now i'm paranoid about everything. >> so yeah, so. so they they they had a they had a permit on a on a redundant basis repeated basis. they this business has gone beyond the permissions of those permits on a on a fairly regular basis they've been counseled and and they still have their permits. they you could have revoked all permits could you have not done that? >> so they have had temporary permits which are issued administratively. yeah. violated those the permits before that are in question tonight have been conditionally

granted their brick and mortar permits for ongoing entertainment and those have not yet been issued. so we have not been able to go through a revocation process because they've not even been issued to the business. >> okay. and and the only thing we're really talking about tonight on this appeal is the difference between 2 a.m. and £0.05 5 a.m. 2 a.m. versus 3:30 a.m. 3:30 a.m. three nights a week which for the record my understanding is that based on the initial appeal was for three nights a week i heard mr. ben-veniste say it was for two nights a week so it may warrant clarification on on what they're seeking. but my understanding was it was 3:30 a.m. that they wanted technically for friday, saturday and sunday mornings. >> okay. and that's correct. and and and i read another redundantly that it is the commission's position and with

without exception that 2:02 a.m. is pretty much the as far as you what you authorize to any other operation in the city that's your standard operating procedure and so there's no discrimination about that. everybody do i am in fact you by going to a 3 a.m. whether it's one day to day or three day doesn't matter you're breaking your standard operating procedure or your policy. >> is that correct? so to clarify they have applied for two separate permits the standard operating procedure where there is no you know, prejudice being here and prejudice here is that the pre permit ends at 2 a.m. that is the standard operating and time for the place of entertainment permit when you go past 2 a.m. for business operations whether for entertainment or food service it triggers the extended hours premises. >> okay and that's what my commission approved for food

service daily and denied for entertainment for that 90 minutes three days a week. >> okay so they can they can they can serve food till the cows come home metaphorically. but as far as playing music, providing any entertainment whatsoever 2 a.m. is is the standard and you're you're your commission is communicating that they're holding that habib's to that standard which is reasonable customary and typical, correct? that is correct. all right thanks. >> thank you. president trasvina. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i want to start with a question that i previously brought up to mr. when the visa officer win how how how did he become the so in effect the spokesperson for the police department on this issue on this case, i'm not sure who officer when is

that name doesn't sound familiar from the record well you emailed in the record you emailed a lot of people at the police department and i apologize somehow i apologize i got a response from him from tenderloin station officer no. one i apologize. i was thinking you were saying when as in w i and i apologize and you i am yes. let me let me answer you. officer nguyen is the permit officer for tenderloin station and all district stations have a permit officer who i correspond with with every application that is within the district station. so for habibie lounge who is located within tenderloin station the permit officers officer nguyen which is why he was asked for a recommendation okay. >> because you wrote to the southern station i did. that was an error there right on the border. okay. right on the cusp. >> so are you aware of whether he is visited habibie lounge? >> it didn't seem like he did from my records but sometimes

the permit officers conduct off site visits as part of their determination or recommendation and they don't necessarily share that information with me. >> okay. >> okay. and you have you stated that the commission well, mr. bennett is saying his client are alleging a case of being singled out or being discriminated against and one of the things they say is they say there was a citation or a visit by staff 12:15 a.m. on new year's eve. >> mm hmm. how many you said you have two part time inspectors. >> that's right. and he and he was he was visited by two part time inspectors on new year's eve. >> we have full staff coverage for the enforcement team. >> so are there how many is that?

>> three and one was in training. he was hired the first week of december so he was not working alone. so the inspector that was the to the team one was in training and was not working independently. >> so our senior inspector what he was office inspector adams was shadowing senior inspectors of rena and those are the two inspectors who made the visit. >> okay. so this is new year's eve and night and midnight and fireworks and partying and did the commission or the staff feel that was a representative time to determine the compliance of of the habibie lounge our inspection team on new year's eve was scheduled to work until 3:00 in the morning. one of our inspectors said is a standard time so they start their shifts at 6 p.m. and they're out all night. that's happening every weekend because that is when generally entertainment is most busy. >> so it was a clear direction from commissioners at the hearing on december 17th that

habibie was the lounge habibie lounges temporary permit for entertainment and amplified sound expired on december 21st and so they were warned you will be visited do not host entertainment and so they were given a heads up that to expect an inspector on january 1st on new year's eve to do a compliance check but they were out my inspectors were out responding to complaints and conducting compliance checks citywide on new year's eve. >> okay. okay. you said and in your papers you describe the discretion of the commission to go beyond it to impose additional restrictions . where does that discretion come from their authority to to make impose conditions on the on permits? yes. police code article 15 point one and 15.2 section ten 60.5 and ten 70.5. >> okay. how and and in ten 60.5 it

specifically for the city attorney's office kind enough to give this to us uh conditions on permits subsection g i have my code and then within that sub subsection 3g3 that sounds right. yes. yes. and i'm going to pull it up myself right? b g three i'm with you so i'll i'll read it. >> you can tell me if i if i because i have a question for the commission may impose additional reasonable time place and manner conditions on the permit in considering whether to impose said conditions the commission shall consider where relevant the circumstances surrounding any previous denial of a permit application or previous suspension or revocation of a permit under article 15 or 15.2 for the same applicant or permit t so what i'm wondering

about has there been a previous denial of a permit application for the habibie lounge? >> no, this is the first permit that they applied for. >> okay. and has there been a previous suspension of a permit? >> no. this was the first permit they applied for brick and mortar and has there been a previous revocation of a permit? no. so so then what are the grounds to or what's what's the basis to add additional restrictions ? >> this piece of code reads or shut they shall consider where where relevant. that's the second sentence right or second part of that sentence. >> and so in this case there had not been permits applied for revoked etc. as you just listed but there was a demonstrated compliance history that we were facing with

repeated violations of city law and so therefore the commission had reasonable authority to impose a condition based on time, place and manner. >> well that's i wonder where does that where does the compliance history fit as a reason for adding conditions because that's the purview of the entertainment commission to ensure the safety and well-being of businesses and in consideration with neighborhood impact and compatibility. and in this case there had been numerous sound complaints and violations observed. >> all right. and today as we sit here as we review this to novo. mm hmm. it's been stated that the habibie lounge has reached out to the tenderloin housing clinic and they're on board with 330. >> right. the tenderloin housing clinic did agree to 3:30 a.m. in writing and seneca hotel.

>> they're on board for three they said that the seneca hotel is managed by the tenderloin housing clinic. >> yes. and the windsor hotel. >> they're also on board with 330 they did agreed to that. >> right. okay. is there a reason why you said we can take 10:00? >> 10:00 is the outdoor amplified sound and time for that was suggested by officer nguyen separate than the indoor entertainment. so those are considered two different activities the indoor entertainment under the place of entertainment permit the commission granted until 2 a.m. at the latest versus the outdoor amplified sound which is not considered entertainment because it's prerecorded music playing from speakers. and that was approved at the latest until 1 a.m. on certain nights of the week 10 a.m. other nights and then 11 p.m. on thursdays. so the officer suggested 10 p.m. nightly okay in order in

order to deal with the compliance history i think you told commissioner swig there are other things you can do correct. and i'm sorry can you rephrase that question or repeat the question? >> other things we can do well there's revocations, there's suspension. >> there's there are other if a permit is issued if a brick and mortar permit is issued, yes, we do have tools in our toolbox. >> so had habib lounge held a brick and mortar permit and have had three violations i should say if any permit holder that has a brick and mortar permit has three violations within 90 days my director has the ability to issue an administrative site suspension for entertainment only for up to 15 days without a hearing. so we can do an administrative suspension. >> the commission can also suspend a permit for up to 30

days and then there is a revocation process for if there's grounds to do so. >> okay. thank you, commissioner hepler thank you. just a few questions. >> one i want to ask about the issue that was raised about the claim in the entertainment commission brief that there were not appropriate health and fire permits on the site. >> can you comment on that? i can, yes. so when habibullah came on our radar in august of 2020 for the city's website where i can look on active permit through the treasure and tax collectors office there was not an active permit from the health department for 20 663. when i reached out to the health department regarding this premises i learned that

they were actually closed due to health violations that were found at the premises. and then i learned from the health inspector that those violations were the imminent health and health hazards were observed to be corrected and the restriction from the health department was lifted as of october 15th, 2024. and at that point i did see that they had an active health permit. so as of october 15th, 2024. and then regarding the fire department, they did not have an active assembly permit which is required for 49 or more people. and the case that mr. benevides said that they don't have 49 people than an active assembly permit wouldn't be required. >> okay. thank you for that clarification. another question i have is you cite the number of permits for entertainment later than 2 a.m. saying there are 51 of those in

the city. >> approximately how many people apply for permits for entertainment for later than 2 a.m. in the morning? i'm trying to get an idea of you know, what fraction of them are granted and which fraction are withheld. >> i would say that it is uncommon for the extended hours premises permit to be denied outright because there are strong grounds required to need to actually deny a permit. so most of the chp permits are in fact if they are applied for they are granted. but some of those both contain entertainment and music. but for the most part those that are applied for are granted. but sometimes with conditions such as this where the time that the businesses requesting is not fully granted and it's pared back a bit. >> okay. and in the brief you stated that your approach to perhaps having a 330 permit permission

for entertainment or 330 would be to set it at to wait and see and then have the appellant petition to amend the permit. is that is that correct? that's correct. and that process can you can walk us through that process. >> again, yeah. so if a business is granted a permit with a condition that they wish to modify at a later date, they're welcome to request to reappear at a future hearing. >> for my for my commission to consider the request and that would be based and the commission would weigh their decision based on demonstrated compliance of their other permit conditions. so it's simply just putting in writing a request to reappear before the commission to have a condition potentially modified. we would then agenda them and the commission would consider the request. >> and is there consideration is there a determination then appealable? i would assume so. well maybe we i don't know if

we need to ask the council but i would believe that i believe that any decision that's made at a public forum by my commission is appealable that as our city council have i know that we just sprung this question on you. >> any any opinion on that matter? >> deputy city attorney jessie minardi i believe so. if it's a permit it's been granted with conditions it would be appealable to this body. >> thank you. >> and then one last question the reason it seems or from what i understand and please correct me if i'm wrong that this permit is necessary is because the music is the result of a deejay. i mean whether they're spending this or using an ipad, the music is coming from a deejay and that's that gives rise to an entertainment permit condition. would the lounge be able to play within the confines of the police code and noise ordinances just ambient music that doesn't have someone physically manipulating it on a song by song basis? yes. okay. thank you.

>> okay. thank you. i don't see any further questions so we are moving on to public comment. is there anyone on zoom who wants to provide public comment? i don't see anyone for public comment but mr. ben-veniste, we are moving on to rebuttal and you have three minutes to address the board. >> thank you. again, i appreciate the board taking up this matter. it's been discussed in the q&a a notion of that the standard is to aim this conversation feels a bit confusing to me and i would like some additional clarity here. an extended hours permit allows us till 5 p.m.. so the standard for each piece seems to be 5 a.m.. i'm not sure. so there's just i would like some clarity there. >> this a baby lounge is located in soma. it's located in a part of the city in which people do stay out past 2 a.m.. there's most of the big clubs

in the city are in soma. they go till 5 a.m. or they go all night here. and so and again we're in a zoning district c3g where we are allowed the zoning is allowed for there to be 24 hour entertainment. so i would say that the the standard as far as my understanding is 24 hour entertainment per the san francisco zoning code. i'm happy to be corrected there. >> so we're leaning on a 2 a.m. number and i just i'm not sure how we got there. i'm not in there. deputy director acevedo responded to the question about d h. again, it's very clear that habibie lounge had a permit as of august 8th. the claim she's made in her brief that as in september they did not have a permit is just incorrect. i'm not aware of any closure. there were some violations that were responded to. >> that's the normal course of business. this is this is a restaurant. >> this is a normal response to

departures. there's notice they're violations and they're corrected and that's that's normal for any recently opening business. i'm not sure how so i'm not sure about that. again, i'd like to lean on the fact that the process for us has been very important. we did center over 300 notices. we went through lengthy negotiation with the thc. this negotiation was lauded by the entertainment commission and i think to set an example that applicant should go through this process and have a successful negotiation with the tenderloin housing clinic. it really undermines that process to say you know what, you guys get all the work you did, all the negotiation, all the parties are happy. but you know because we showed up at 1215 on january 1st and wrote you a citation for music at quiet levels at 1215. you guys are a bad actor and we can't trust you and we're going to we're going to overrule the agreement. >> it feels so if you know,

talk 15 a.m. on january first feels like we were targeted and that's just the position that we have. we feel like it's unfair and it's it seems a little bit silly to be honest. but in any case that's all i feel i have and i'm happy to answer any more questions. thanks. thank you. we have a question from vice president eppler. >> thank you. you raise the january 1st inspection and violation notice citation. >> do you dispute that the lounge was put on notice that the you know they might be that someone might be knocking on the door on january 1st to confirm that they are following the the rules that were in place at the time. >> that is correct. i am i dispute would be too strong of a word. i am not aware that it was communicated to us that they would be showing up on january 1st. >> i'm not it was communicated to us that you know, hey, you guys aren't allowed and we haven't even discussed the fact

that we actually were allowed more one time permits to have that outdoor we were incorrectly told that we weren't allowed anymore one time permits and then after the fact it was disclosed to us that, you know, we could have had we only only used up 11 and we had one more and then we had 12 more so we were given missing incorrect information. so i want to respond to your question. >> the lead disputes that it could have been heard the music could have been the music was playing at a quiet level and ali disputes that that the inspectors could have heard it from the sidewalk. it was just a very quiet, quiet music playing in the like ambient restaurant music playing very quietly at 1215. >> so we dispute that it could have even been heard but was just and and we were, you know, very sorry. you know, we got carried away. it's i understand since since you raised the issue of one time permits i just want to be clear you did not have a one time permit for for music on

the on the first correct. >> that's correct. >> so while we weren't told that they would be showing up on january 1st, we were told in the hearing that hey, you guys don't have any more one time permit. >> that's okay right now i was just just, you know, confirming that fact since that issue came up. >> can you can you kind of couch the this this one citation within the the timeline of citations and and communications between the department and you it seems you know there is a lengthy time line of citations and you know there was a process that was step through in terms of communication whether it was effective or not and then an escalation of penalties. >> you know, how how do you how do we get how do we get to that escalation of penalties and and things you know from your perspective i we well we we we understand the the reason why and or i mean we don't disagree

i would say that the the ultimate reason why we rejected our january hearing was that there had been some previous citations with regards to noise violations or the inspectors would just show up without a noise complaint. we were correcting that and we were working very heavily. >> there was a lot of work being put in for this and the difference between when we were reviewed on our january hearing was the single between a december hearing on a january hearing. the only difference was a single citation for a 12:15 a.m. user got quiet levels and and they got us you know someone slipped up and was playing a music a quiet level. >> one last one last question then you say that that's the only difference between those two hearings. the december hearing was continued and there was no determinations made at that time, correct? that's right. all right. thank you. >> okay. thank you. i don't see any further questions so we'll now hear from the entertainment commission staff.

>> okay. so i just want to clarify one thing regarding the quiet levels. so the standard is that if you have a permit or don't have a permit doesn't matter the volume at which you're playing, it's whether or not the activity is permitted. they're one time permit allowed for outdoor amplified sound until 10 p.m. not after so all of the violations that occurred well after 10 p.m. were in fact a violation doesn't matter the volume at which they were operating i just want to go ahead and say that we we remain confident that the commission's decision to oppose the time based permit condition was warranted and fair as i explained to the business that they're hearing on january 7th and in our appeal brief a permit see may request a future hearing to amend permit conditions after demonstrating a sustained track record of compliance. however, instead of following this established process and demonstrating compliance by correcting repeated violations, habib lounge is appealing a reasonable permit condition given the commission's extensive efforts to educate

and bring the business into compliance. it is well founded and it's well founded regulatory authority to impose conditions balancing business operations with community impact. >> we believe the board should deny the appeal. thanks. okay. present i have a question about your final statement and um are you saying they shouldn't be appealing? i'm saying that you should deny the appeal. >> right. but you're saying instead of remediating instead of coming back for another permit they're appealing and we should deny it . it sounds like you don't that the the commission does not fully recognize their right to appeal. i hope that there is no misunderstanding there because that is not the intention of what i was just saying rather we would just like to see the business comply with their

permit conditions and demonstrate a track record of of proving compliance. >> yes. okay. and and on a related matter is the commission because there is a dispute over the letter of determination is the commission now going to routinely issue letters of determination in their in their decisions effective 20 25 we have been issuing letters of determination following a hearing. >> all right. thank you. okay. thank you. >> i don't see any further questions. so commissioners, this matter is submitted. thank you all for your testimony virtually and and in person. i just want to start out and i, i do have very real concerns about the commission's use of

its discretion as i and there's this past history of of noncompliance. but right now we're in a situation where the lounge has communicated with the relevant neighbors and anyone who has watched this commission over the past couple of years has now knows that that is community conduct that we promote encouraging communications among neighbors to resolve matters. it appears that on the issue of closing the issue that we have before us 2:00 or 330 the apb lounge has reached out to the seneca hotel to the housing clinic, detention and housing clinic to the windsor hotel and everyone is in agreement. 330 is an appropriate time.

>> as i read the record the staff of the commission agreed that 330 was an appropriate closing time. >> this is a compromise between an earlier time and the time that the a, b b lounge had requested. >> yes, there were a lot of problems with with as has been described in the record but in general we asked for we asked for people to communicate and to cooperate and to come to agreement. it appears that they have their fears that they have done so the same time in terms of the discretion of the entertain entertainment commission i, i sense the irritation within within the entertainment commission about about this about this this company. but as i read g three the discretion of the commission is tied to imposing conditions

based on compliance history not not based on compliance history and public interest considerations as was in the brief but but on the specifics in g three which are relevant matters that are relevant to previous denial of her own application previous suspension or revocation of a permit and that's not what we have here. in fact at the close of the commission's brief they state multiple safeguards exist to ensure permitted businesses operate within the limitations as if sound complaints or compliance issues arise. the commission has a range of enforcement tools to correct violations including notices of violation monetary citations etc. hearings for rec reconditioning and in severe cases permit suspension or revocation. in my view the commission went the wrong way in terms of using its discretion to abuse its discretion.

i'm not sure why as i understand it as as we've had the commission come before us at other times they were established to promote and help the entertainment industry. so here we have we have a vip lounge that has reached out, gotten the noise issues dealt with and the support of their neighbors. >> we have compliance problems but there are other ways for the commission to address compliance problems. >> so i would it is my view that there is an abuse of discretion and i believe the 330 time is appropriate for for us for us to impose and in a to novo review. vice president eppler thank you president trevino i agree that this is a you know there's almost almost an element of of splitting hairs considering

what sort of music can and can't be allowed at different times and you know there's you know but it's a little little bit closer than i would have anticipated. however, i do respectfully disagree on on your reading of the code because i think that your reading of the code does two different things. one, it means that the entertainment commission cannot conditions on first time permit applications and i don't think that's what you intend but if we have to look you know solely to whether or not there's been a denial of previous permit applications or suspensions or revocations of a permit, then a first time permit, a player doesn't fall into any of those and certainly the permits are allowed to be conditioned less. secondly, i think that your rating means that it's not just the time limit that we have to get rid of but also the where people can line up the signage and that there's other conditions that were put into the permit and not strictly the time limit. i think that those items that

we listed off that are list in the second sentence are things that the commission is required to look at where they're relevant otherwise they're allowed to impose additional reasonable time, place and manner conditions. and you know my way of looking at it because i don't think there's necessarily abuse of discretion is whether or not this is reasonable and i know that there there are certainly times when parties to a matter may agree with something and the city agency may not find it reasonable for one reason or another and i am concerned by the history of violations of of the entity i know that government communicate tions can be complicated and can be hard to understand but it seems like there was an effort to educate the operators of this facility as to how to operate warnings given and they were walked very deliberately through an escalating process for the violations that they did have and so on one hand i'm not sure

you know, if if the lounge is going to be a perfect citizen from here on out, i'm not sure whether 2 a.m. or 330 matters and if they're going to be an imperfect citizen from here on out i don't know if 2 a.m. or 330 really matters but that's that's not necessarily the point that i look at. i look to see whether or not the commission could have in light of the record said you know, we understand everyone said 330 we're a little concerned that that may be bad and we'll be sending our inspectors out there more often that we want to in the late hours of the night. and so let's roll it back to 230. i'm not sure that's unreasonable in this circumstance even though i do agree that it's a close close matter in this circumstance which just wait you have comments and yeah my thing doesn't work though so i, i, i am agreeing with commissioner blair on this one and i won't go be redundant and restate

everything he said i don't i feel that the commission acted fairly. i feel that the commission acted responsibly. i tried really hard not to be suffer from a bias related to can you speak up please commissioner swick i have your microphone working i yeah yeah questionable. this is not my technology night . i can hear you better now. i think that the commission acted responsibly. i think the commission didn't act with with prejudice. that's why i asked the representative from the commission whether it's 2 p.m. and a normal cut off date or is that just something that was arbitrary? i think i see it differently is i think is that that your standard operating procedure she said yes and didn't give

cause for many exceptions i tried not to be prejudiced by the the list of of things that the operator did not use good judgment on by playing music at the wrong time and doing the wrong thing. i just simply i think that the commission acted in a in a proper fashion and if at some later point this a restaurant or or entertainment area i don't know exactly what it is that i call it a restaurant because they serve food if they want to reapply and based on proving their point that there they're good citizens etc. etc. then that that opportunity presents itself correct? yes, i'm i'm saying correct to the representative she's nodding. so i don't think that there we

can support an appeal on this. >> and one further point that just escape my mind anyway it's not going to change my oh yeah commissioner trevino said and i have to correct you that yes there was communication to an immediate neighbor on each side that would be one representing that would be one person representing two entities yet in the public comment that we received in writing today there was certainly commentary to to be in conflict with the position of the tenderloin housing people so there there are other one does not when one opinion does not make for a neighborhood and well if i could add in just in response

to the last comment that that is true we did get an unsigned or uh an email from from someone very detailed and specific and somewhat profane language about the situation. on the other hand you have a respected nonprofit organization that is the official representative for the people who are in this very large building and i think you i think we need to weigh the way the way the opinions that have have been received on this and we we are now in a situation where we have the uh neighbors who and and the entertainment commission staff all agreed on 330 and and and we are now asked to uh on on this matter the only issue before us isn't the other issues about outdoor sound or different time limit. the only issue is to to 2:00 or

3:30 a.m. but i it would requires a unanimous vote to grant the appeal. i do not see that here so i'd be happy to entertain a motion uh to address this matter a motion to deny the appeal in at the permit was is that the action by the commission was properly completed. okay. so we have a motion from commissioner swink to deny the appeal and uphold the conditional approval the permits on the basis that the determination was properly issued on that motion. >> president just been you know vice president eppler right. >> okay. so that motion fails. is there another motion on the table being done that means that the underlying determination is upheld as a matter of law which is the

equivalent of a denial. >> so that that concludes the hearing and there is no right to request a rehearing. so a written decision will be sent out tomorrow. there being no further business before the commission the meeting is adjourned. >> thank you

my name is mark, the general manager of condor beach in san francisco. condor was created [indiscernible] when it started in 1964, the club becoming the first adult entertainment, club regal in america, that was

something big, that was huge. condor givers you a little of everything. we open in the day on the weekends so we have a live band that play and night time we transform where the entertains come on and we have the gentleman's club vibe along with the sports vibe. we show the ufc and boxing events and major sports and do little things like [indiscernible] comedy nights you can find what we are doing through our website. condor gives you a little bit of everything that you want when you want to go out and have a good time. being here in north beach and part of san francisco we put a lot of ourselves in the business. the good work we were able to do over the last decade to build it and make it what it is today t. is a honor to say, we are one of few businesses in san francisco that is a legacy

business. >> we do in a way which is exciting engaging-the idea is bring the stories to life, because they are so relevant to the questions we all are asking today about where we belong, who are we, who do wree want to be. we wanted to be do something about food, because it is such a wonderful entrance. to get people to think what are these cultures, how did they come about and how do i relate to them. we can't live the idea [indiscernible] >> there is hundreds if not thousands of immigrants kitchens and we wanted to show how immigration from 1849

through now the different dishes bought here and how it shaped the culture of the city. . not the thing we have to sit down and read for hours and hours, but you get a 2 and a half minute story and the feeling you can eat those foods and never get a dish the same way again. you have the context. >> we decided to set an journey across the city. the result is [indiscernible] >> san francisco is a place where there are so many different immigrants communities. we are a sanctuary city, a welcoming place to be and the melting spot is a great to get out and explore the city, the history and how we got to have some of the best cuisine in the country and maybe even the entire world.

>> my mother and myself and two sisters--we had to leave quick. my mom had one hour to pack and gather her things and gather her kids and head to the airport and evacuate. we found ourself in san francisco. my grand mother was already here. that is why san francisco was the destination for us. it goes back to my grand mother and who loved to travel and she was also very afraid of the war going on in vietnam. she came to san francisco and she kind of fell in love with the sitdy. city. she visited the italian deli by oakland beach because she loved the beach and met the owner and the owner told her that this place is for sale and she decided this is her opportunity

to stay in san francisco and her dream to be a business owner and open a restaurant. >> i was born [indiscernible] i graduated from a french program culinary school, then i [indiscernible] at that time, we had college of san mateo in the back yard and had a program for foreign students and we got together and went to the american embassy and this woman welcomed us and she gave both. it is not [indiscernible] and then after that i got accepted and [indiscernible]

ended up in san francisco where i had friends so i came to college of san mateo. from there, i transferred to chico state college, so i graduated there and that is when my culinary adventure started. i love cooking and also remind me of my childhood mptd >> my father had a dream and grit and determination. worked very very hard. to me, food is one of the most readily accessible to understanding a culture. i don't think many people have the opportunity to travel to armenia or lebanon. we are lucky in the city, the abundance of asian cuisines and [indiscernible] restaurants are in many ways an opportunity to engage with another culture through food. >> my grand father had his

backyard you name it, we had it. [indiscernible] but my grandma's cookie the memories of the [indiscernible] very powerful. when you channel these memories there is a image because it is a experience all 5 senses get if to it. i think that is why city is so important for immigrants. the first thing you [indiscernible] we got to eat. you got to nourish the body and you remember and i went from memory really. >> i remember my grand mother telling me stories that when she first opened in 1971, people really didn't know much about vietnamese food and she started

selling the italian deli food and half the food and half vietnamese food and she stands in the corner trying to pass samples just to lur customers into the restaurant and try vietnamese food. i think when you enter a new place and you have your family and you have each other and food is what holds your family together. at least for my family for sure, that is the time we get to enjoy food, make connections, bond, sit together and be together. i just remember my grand mother and mom working hard all the time and once a week we would have family dinners. we gather and she would cook the food. all the kids we always look forward to that. my grand mother coming in 1971,

she brought vietnamese food in san francisco. we are one of the first vietnamese arrest raunt restaurant in san francisco. >> for san francisco to have this map and look at all the people who came here and made things you can only find in sf. we are the place to get a mission burete. burrito. that could be overlooked and not seen [indiscernible] >> important because it highlights the san francisco, the diversity for each restaurant and each spot on the map to share their story through food they serve to diners. i think it is special way to

highlight the welcomeness and the [indiscernible] san francisco community is bay area has. >> it is one of the project that is so uniquely san francisco that speaks to the long history of immigration and cuisine the city has been known for. the melting spot allows the small businesses that have been around for a while to really shine with their own unique stories and flavors and so we really love it. the ecosystem in san francisco is very unique and very welcoming of immigrants and immigrant initiatives. san francisco choice to honor us with the legacy business recognition really shows their support of small local businesses. >> a legacy business is a business that has been around and open in san francisco for at least 30 years.

legacy businesses are the most foundational businesses in our neighborhood corridors. they provided services and a place for community to gather for often times for generations. they are really part of the culturally fabric that makes san francisco neighborhoods so unique. >> the idea is take what i think is [indiscernible] about immigration, about belonging, about some of the amazing history of the city. [indiscernible] 18.

>> if you're anesthetic think about a career with us in the sffd stands up a remarkable force to save lives the step forward we're not just looking for firefighters but people with the mind to tackle any exchange and oats heart to serve the public. >> i'm p from california and firefighter and paramedic basically grew up at the beach surfing in the wilmar a lot and once i got into clerment i start to compete. >> my name is a ryan i was with the step forward and comprehensive swimming and from

there went it school when my career took off. >> minimum miller a little you firefighter with the university of california berkley and played football for 4 years and after that, i was a undrafted free agent for that they played in the glamz and then after that signed with the chargers. >> are you someone with a passion for pushing your limits do you thrive in high pressure situations ready to transform both a new career and my name is jay i grasp in san francisco and remembered with engine four i knew i wanted to nod do not an office job but a firefighter from a young age a athletic is like that in general working

towards a goal and being goal oriented and this job, you know, are constantly learning and practicing i wanted to job where i used my body and could be part of the team so the firehouse and planning on team priorities on a team are different conditions and have breaks firehouse on is an engine or truck have a place you can be together. >> i tried it done with football and didn't time to do football i choose this and found elevators between sports and athletes and the fire services a college or a professional team you represent something burn yourself and other people want

to maintain a certain level of professionalism and i understand you have to have a higher standard. >> joining the san francisco federal, state, and local is making a difference in light lives of others. >> i thought through the fire department i thought under pressure the biggest one you fell in love with our medication and enjoyed the medical side and helping people. >> my favorite job putting anti fires and helping people were put that many situation so getting them out and this resources they need and then having them at their homes. >> so i have come across my favorite part of the job i'll say show up to work and run calls and knowing that each day will be different what is the best part of this job.

>> i'm on a side of paramedic. >> i'm an athletic and i'm a professional football and now a firefighter. >> i'm a firefighter. >> are you ready to answer the call and combooshg on a call . my ceo response on and mayor daniel our new mayor as of november fifth kerry my wife who's also here we've been 33 year. >> san francisco native so maybe not quite as long as you mayor but we've watched this city over the years and i don't know if i've had as quite as much optimism as i have today. for a couple of reasons. one is because i'm part of a great bank.

but secondly and we're investing in san francisco but also because of daniel leary somebody we supported and felt very lucky to be part of his campaign and his strategy for san francisco going forward. so thank you all for being here today. we're going to have a quick half an hour hopefully a little time for a couple of questions and we'll cover a few topics. so maybe a quick introduction. mayor leary about why you decided after after having done so much for san francisco, you decided to take on this big role as mayor of san francisco . well, it's well, first off, thanks for having me. it's good to see a room with a new group of people focused on investing in san francisco. thanks for your leadership on this and we look forward to being a good partner to you all and you know, it started with the fact that i was walking my kids to school in the mission and i couldn't explain to them what they were seeing on the streets. i come from you know, close to 20 years running something called tipping point community a poverty fighting organization in the san francisco bay area working on housing and

homelessness issues, education, job training, early childhood and and yet what we were seeing on the streets is is unacceptable. it's still is unacceptable. this morning i got out my car and with my the detail that i go with like try to get somebody off the ground to what's in a state that it's just unacceptable for him and it's unacceptable for our parents to be walking by those people. we got to get them off the street and in the help that they need and i just felt like our leadership had failed here in san francisco. and so what i'm excited about is it's a new day. we were just talking before we came on stage we have a board of supervisors that is working collaboratively with us. we are bringing them in instead of it being an adversarial relationship which it has been for many years now it's one of partnership understanding that we have one job and that is to

get results for the people of san francisco and to stop bickering about small things and a focus on common sense public safety getting people off the street and then making it easier for our small businesses and big business to thrive and we're off to a strong start but we've got a lot of work to do and look forward to partnering with all of you in this room to do that. >> so bruce, why don't you talk a little bit about our investment in san francisco and how that's grown over time? >> sure. so thanks again for being here . >> much appreciated and for everybody turning out today. we saw early on that you know the obvious that california's a really big state, really important state and on its own it would be the fifth biggest gdp economy in the world. and so we try to figure out how does an east coast bank like citizens not plant a flag out here and actually start to build up a presence? and so we had some commercial

banking teams here. we did a small acquisition in l.a. of an m&a boutique and then the opportunity to talk to mark back in 2021 about bringing amp under the fold and having exposure to some great sectors of innovation around overall technology emerging tech companies, healthcare companies, fintech companies to plan a nice big flag and give broader capabilities around equities and equities research to the rest of citizens. so that was really the start of it. i'd like to joke with mark that his timing was impeccable or not so much since we did that deal we haven't seen a whole lot of deal flow in terms of ipos but that's coming i assume every year this time of year you say this is the year so hopefully this actually is the year but you know you have to be opportunistic and then when first your public failed we try to get