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tv   Nancy Grace  TBN  October 18, 2012 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT

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>> thank you, guys. thank you to lisa bloom, mark eiglarsh, avreva martin, tricia system -- kim seraphin and mike knight, r.j. mitte and dyna. put that picture back up there. can you do it? there they are. nice picture. reminder, "nancy grace" begins breaking news tonight. live to colorado. daddy parties all night with friends and then, tucks his little girl into bed. a few hours later the baby is dead. hemorrhaging in the eyes, bleeding on the brain after she quote, falls off the bed. bombshell tonight. the case takes a or u-turn when daddy finally confesses the baby was crying so he slams her body repeatedly to, quote, shut her up. the baby is dead.
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but now daddy walks free after just 90 days behind bars. district court judge douglas walker, i'm calling you out. cops arrive on the scene after it is reported a tiny baby is not breathing. they said the little girl had rolled off the bed, declared dead. authorities become suspicious after noticing that he can you'll laters in daddy's story. this tiny infant's death was no accident. it was manslaughter. slamming her so hard into a bed, it caused brain trauma. got just 90 days to has not down what some are calling a mere slap on the wrist. what caused the legal system to hand down such a seemingly light sentence to a father who even admitted to killing his baby girl.
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>> tonight, live,co texas. forget a cup of coffee to wake you up first thing in the morning. how about raw chicken? apparently used coat exand tampons, filthy graffiti all over your home and lawn. the alleged everybody thatty perp, a 41-year-old mother at walmart loading up for that night's evil doing. neighbors say it started with two group of middle school students, toilet papered each other's houses. >> they snuck out in the middle of the night and they go down and do some terrible things. this mom arrested for criminal mischief. the 41-year-old faces a state jail felony. according to the arrest affidavit, the kids who vandalized the home were under
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tara mooney's supervision. it ended with damage to the stucko home. police have video of her with eight kids at the walmart where they bought more than 100 rolls of toilet paper before the incident. >> good evening. i'm nancy grace. thank you for being with us. bombshell tonight. live to colorado. daddy parties all night with friends. then tucks his 6-month-old baby girl into bed. a few hours later, she is dead. the case takes a horrific u-turn when daddy confesses, baby sailor was crying so what does he do? he slams her tiny body repeatedly to, quote, shut her up. the baby is dead. but daddy walks free after just 90 days behind bars. district court judge walker, sir, i am calling you out. straight out to woia.
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90 days for killing your 6-month-old baby girl? >> it is a case where there is some underlying rage and alcohol abuse problems here with dylan. he is 19 years old. he was allegedly out partying getting drunk with friends when this murder, i'm going to call it a murder. i think it is a murder happened. and also while out on bond, nancy, before this sentence was handed down he was busted for drunk driving. this is a young man who just doesn't understand the consequences of what he does. >> all right. he is a killer. let's just take that for what it's worth. but i want to talk about the judge in this case. district court judge douglas walker. out to jennifer morgan. tnn, denver joining us. what do we know about this judge? >> the judge had sympathy for dylan and his family. that's the main thing we can take away from this. >> i couldn't hear you.
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i've got new york talking in my ear. the judge what? >> the judge had sympathy for dylan and his family. that's the main thing we're taking away. he had sympathy through the testimony and because of this, the judge did not want him to spend time in jail because he said that he would more than likely become a repeat offender. >> wait, wait, wait. the judge didn't want him to send him to jail on murder because he didn't want him to be a repeat offender? how could he kill another baby behind bars, jennifer morgan? >> the judge claims that more than likely, when you go to jail, you become a repeat offender. and because of his age and his record, he didn't want him to go to jail. and become another offender once he leaves in about four years. >> once he leaves in four years. whoa, wait, wait. once he leaves in four years.
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ellie, a 6-month-old baby girl is completely defenseless. where was mommy during all this, ellie? >> at work. she got up early that day to go to a waitressing job and it was witnesses at the home who say it was once the mom left for work and put the baby in dylan kuhn's care that this happened. and dylan kuhn admitted that one he threw the baby on the bed, she quieted down and the crying stopped. >> if you threw a baby girl on to a bed, i don't believe throwing a baby on to a mattress would cause hemorrhaging to the eyes and bleeding on the brain. i don't believe that. >> no. it is usually a result of shaking somewhat violent shaking that we see these injuries.
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now, it seemed to me the medical examiner, at least in one of the news i read, the medical examiner felt it could have been caused by that. in my experience, that is very unusual. the injuries this child has is usually caused by violent shaking back and forth so you're right. >> you mean the shaking when you go back and forth and back and forth, the brain hits back and forth against the inside of the skull? >> well, if the head had been slammed against a hard object, for instance, if the back of the head had hit the wall, then the brain could bounce forward and the front of the brain hit the front of the skull. that would be the contra coup to the front of the brain. just shaking back and forth usually just tears the veins between the dura and the brain and that's what cause think the sub did you recall hemorrhage. in addition, it stretches the optic nerves and deforms the retina so we get retinal hemorrhage and hemorrhaging around the optic nerve sheath.
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so that can just be done with violent shaking without striking the child against the wall. if the child was hit against the hard object, the brain will bounce back and forth and you'll get the injury. >> i'm just imagining a 6-month-old baby girl. she had been sick so she was fussy and crying. and her biological father had been up all night smoking pot and drinking. watching the horror movie, "insidious." and this little baby cries for love. cries for help. cries for attention. and what does she get? i am disgusted at this man. i am disgusted at the judge. judge district court judge douglas walker. we count on judges to represent
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justice. to pat brown, criminal profiler and author of how to save your daughter's life, i would like to hear you weigh in. this guy, high on pot. up with all of his friends in the next room watching a horror movie. and then he kills his daughter? that's bad enough. but this judge? >> here we've got the problem. this man was an adult. he was not a little boy. he was a man. he got a girl pregnant. he went and lived with that girl and he was raising that child of he brought drugs into that home. he did that drug while he was caring for his child and he killed his child. he had every opportunity to do the right thing and he did all wrong things. the judge is crazy. i don't understand this man. if we send the guy to jail, prison, he won't be rehabilitated. that's not what prison is about. prison is about getting these
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offenders off the street and giving them their just do. we can worry about rehabilitation on some other issue but you don't say you won't send people to prison. we might as well send nobody to prison. >> you're a form he judge. dan joining me out of new york. i know how you judges, it is like a little club. you all stick together and make excuses for each other. fine. i get it. this is crazy. this is outright crazy. >> i agree with you. a judge is more than a replacement referee. a judge is supposed to bring the conscience of the community to the issue of sentencing. in this case, the judge imposed an extremely lienent sentence. this defendant won't even be in a jail cell on the anniversary of his daughter's death to think about it on that day. it is really incomprehensible. what is really concerning to me is that the judge's stated
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reason is he feels this defendant is not a risk to repeat behavior. why then, your honor, did you improceeds a probation sentence that the defendant shall not be alone with any 10-year-old or younger child after he gets out? >> on the other hand, dan winslow, he didn't do it alone. the devil sat down to a tea party. there were other people drinking tea. you had the defense lawyer themselves get paid to get their china off no matter what. the prosecutor. if this were part of a negotiated deal, they're on the hook, too, in my book. >> i completely agree. this is an adversarial system. justice depends on both sides being zealously advocated. in this indicates, it appears the prosecutor made a rookie mistake. the defendant was charged first with abuse of a child resulting in death which is a minimum mandatory period of incarceration and manslaughter. in a plea agreement, they left the door open for an exceedingly lenient sentence to be imposed. i think a lot of this is on the d.a. for dropping the ball. >> well, you know, you can't blame the defense attorney,
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actually, in this case, dan. because i compare them to snakes. snakes. they crawl on their belly and they think they're a king. a defense attorney can't help being a defense attorney. they are what they are. and no matter how heinous the crime is, they think they're doing the right thing by getting their client off and letting them walk free. so i just count, i just write them off. but i expect more from prosecutors and judges. out to jennifer morgan joining me from tnn. was this part of a negotiated deal? did the prosecution agree to it? or was it a blind plea? up to the judge where the prosecutor did not agree to it. >> the plea, the original, he could have had 12 years in prison for this. for manslaughter. but he took a plea bargain which made it up to four years, leaving that window open. >> wait, wait, back it up.
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what did you say about 12 years? >> the original sentence. he could have had 12 years, up to 12 years in prison. but as part of the plea bargain, it brought it down to zero to four years in prison and it dropped his dui charges that he had while he was out on probation. >> i'm reading. i'm getting in my hands right now more information. do you know what? back to you, winslow, the prosecutor may be off the hook. it says that this dad, this killer dad faced up to four years in prison under the plea agreement. and the d.a. russell wasley begged the judge. the district court judge douglas walker to give the killer dad the maximum sentence allowed. but instead, he let killer dad walk. [ male announcer ] every day, thousands of people, like you, are choosing advil®
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emergency crews race to the scene after receiving a call about an infant not breathing. the baby, rushed to a local hospital where she is pronounced dead. before news of the tragedy even begins to settle, investigators are combing the child's home after they noticed suspicious signs. believing the death may not have been an accident after all. their suspicions proved correct after an autopsy reveals hemmaging and brain trauma. cause of death? homicide. cops arrive on the scene after it is reported a tiny baby is not breathing.
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daddy tells investigators the little girl had rolled off the bed. that a blanket had been wrapped around her neck and that she was dangling from the edge. the baby is rushed to the hospital only to be declared dead. authorities become suspicious after noticing that peculiarities in daddy's story. autopsy results confirm what investigators had feared from the beginning. this tiny infant's death was no accident. it was manslaughter. >> we are taking your calls. a so-called killer dad admits he slammed his 6-month-old baby girl to death. then he tells authorities, she fell off the bed. this after a night of hard partying, drinking alcohol, smoking pot, watching a horror movie titled "insidious" when his sick infant calls for help instead of helping, he kills her. but that's not the end of the story.
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a prosecutor in that jurisdiction drops a major charge of child abuse that carries a 24-year penalty with it. although he begs a judge, district court judge douglas walker to sentence killer dad to the max of four years on the only remaining charge, instead, this judge lets the father walk. we are taking your calls. out to jessica in alabama. what's your question? >> caller: my question is, is he going to get away with having the 90 days served or is he going to have to serve another 90 days? >> i think he is going to get away. what about it, ellie? >> experts in that area, in fact, an expert from the rocky mountain children's law center said she would not be surprised if he is out within a week on electronic monitoring so he may even serve less than the 90 days in jail. >> you're kidding. >> i'm not kidding, nancy. >> ellie, if he does get out in a week with an ankle monitor know you mean like like paris hilton sported and lindsay
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lohan? give me a shot of that. he will get out with an ankle monitor like paris and lindsay and he killed his 6-month-old baby girl? >> well, nancy, like you said earlier, he was facing much more serious charges. that child abuse resulting in death in addition to the manslaughter charge. he could have faced a lot more time. even the 90-day sentence is a pretty good deal for him. but according to some people who are looking at this case, he may not even do that much time. boom! here it comes! bring it back! bring it home! [ male announcer ] when you combine creamy velveeta with zesty rotel tomatoes and green chilies, you get a bowl of queso that makes even this get-together better. but with advair, i'm breathing better. so now i can be in the scene. advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications,
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outrage after a colorado judge hands down a sentence of 90 days in jail for manslaughter? this after it is reported 6-month-old sailor is killed by her own father. autopsy reports reveal that tiny infant was slammed so hard into a bed, it caused hemorrhaging and brain trauma.
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manslaughter. slamming her so hard into a bed it caused brain trauma. got just 90 days. hand down what some are calling a mere slap on the wrist. what caused the legal system to hand down such a seemingly light sentence? >> nobody, absolutely nobody is representing this baby. the baby's own mother defended her killer in court. we are taking your calls. out to marty in kentucky. hi, marty, what's your question? >> caller: my question is, how low is morality got our morals and our values in this country got to sink before the judges and the judicial system will wake up and start giving these killers sentences that are appropriate for the crime?
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>> and you know what, marty in kentucky, what this judge did, district court judge douglas walker, he says that sending killer dad to jail would not rehabilitate him. well, i'm quoting from killer dad in court. he said i love my daughter very much. i was told i was too young to raise her and that turned out to be true. now, what is he going to do? he'll probably get out. get somebody else pregnant and have another baby.
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cops arrive on the scene after it is reported a tiny baby is not breathing. daddy tells investigators the little girl had rolled off the bed, declared dead. authorities become suspicious after noticing peculiarities. this was no accident. it was manslaughter. slamming her so hard into a bed, it caused brain trauma. >> i'm going to go back to marty in kentucky. marty, i think i need you because i'm about to unleash the lawyers. joining me, dan winslow, former judge, new york. darrell cohen, form he prosecutor, now defense attorney, atlanta. and richard herman, renowned defense attorney, tonight joining me out of las vegas. so marty, what do you think about that? he breaks down in court. then he starts crying, boo who, i didn't mean to. i want to remind you, marty in kentucky, at first he claimed the baby fell off the bed.
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and he only told the truth that he essentially beat the baby to death after the medical examiner ruled that this was no accident, marty in kentucky. >> caller: well, our society has become so selfish and so self-centered that all they think about is i, me, i. and they don't think about, you know, they don't think about the obligations and responsibilities that they take on when they take on a child. >> you know, marty in kentucky, i'm going to hold on to your words as i unleash the lawyers. all right, herman, weigh in. >> well, first of all, you don't think i'm a snake, do you, nancy? please, come on. you love me. come on. say it. >> sss! weigh in. >> this judge walker should be praised. he should be praised for his actions here. he takes cue from the prosecution. a plea deal was entered into with this prosecutor.
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he knowingly deleted the child abuse cause of action. he deleted that. all that was before this judge was a manslaughter leading to the death and accidental homicide. accidental maximum four years. he took into consideration the age, 19 years old. a young man. got to live with the rest of his life knowing that as a result of his actions, his baby is dead. this judge did the right thing. >> he doesn't care. he doesn't care. seth meyers, clinical psychologist, why would richard herman believe he actually cared about his 6-month-old child? while the child is sick, what is he doing? is he asleep with the child in the bed with him or next to him taking care of her? giving her her medicine? no. he is up partying all night, drinking booze and smoking pot with his buddies, watching a horror movie in the next room. why do i think he cares anything about this child? and the mother parades into
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court and defends the killer. >> well, i could not agree with you more. the truth is, i've worked on many cases with child protective services, and so often, this is not -- when the violence gets to the point of death. this was not a single incident. that there were episodes before of aggressive gestures toward the child. so that's what i would like to know. my guess is that this was not the first time he did something aggressive toward that baby. >> you know, darrell cohen, you're a form he prosecutor before you became a defense lawyer. and i've been thinking back over all the child molestation and all the child murders. all the child abuse cases i ever prosecuted. and i cannot recall one case where the child's mother took the side of the state. they always took the side of the husband, boyfriend, live-in, ex, whatever. always. is that your experience?
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>> nancy. it is my experience but that's also the battered women's syndrome. she thinks there is something wrong with her and she is transferring that to him. but in this instance, in my view, this young man is going to be punished for the rest of his life and you and i both know -- >> in your experience. >> it come in many, many forms. and he has probation. >> what punishment would that be? >> punishment he has to think about that child that died as a result -- >> so you think he is thinking about it. >> i absolutely think if. if he is not now, if he is not thinking about it now, he will think about it as he grows older and grows more mature. >> was he thinking about it when he lied to police and he tried -- >> he was scared. >> he was trying to save his own skin. >> with all due respect, he was afraid. every defendant is afraid when they're arrested and they don't know what to do. so he did the wrong thing. >> every defendant is afraid they're going to get in trouble. they're not sorry they did it.
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they're sorry they got caught. you know, whether you guys will admit it or not, and i don't expect you to, when i was prosecuting, i noticed that there seemed to be a pattern of pleading cases down from murder to manslaughter when a child was the victim. and i don't know why. i don't know if it is the majority of the prosecutors are men and they don't have to deal with children as much as moms do. and don't start the whole dad thing with me, okay? maybe they're not as equipped dealing with crying children. maybe they get frustrated. maybe they take out their frustrations in a different way than women do. i don't know. and frankly, i don't care. but what i did notice is that when the victim is a child, or an infant that can't speak for itself. more often than not, i would see
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murder cases pled down to voluntary manslaughter. i don't know why. but i observed it myself. i saw other people doing it, dan winslow. >> nobody can speak for a child in the criminal justice system. for that reason, oftentimes the interests of the child don't come to the fore. that's a darn shame. that's why the judge needed to step up in this case. from currency trading for a few to a currency market for everyone. the potential of fxcm unlocked. nyse euronext. unlocking the world's potential. to compete on the global stage. what we need are people prepared for the careers of our new economy. by 2025 we could have 20 million jobs without enough college graduates to fill them. that's why at devry university, we're teaming up with companies like cisco to help make sure everyone is ready with the know-how we need for a new tomorrow. [ male announcer ] make sure america's ready.
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reported missing. deputies shoulder to shoulder searching the bottom of ponds with their hands for a tiny 5-month-old baby's lifeless body. now, her parents, steve and marlena say they believe she is alive somewhere and being raised by a family who wanted a baby. the case of sabrina aisenberg has never been solved. this mom arrested for criminal mischief. two groups of middle school students, toilet papered each other's houses but it ended with graffiti and other damage to this stucco home. police have video of her with eight kids at this walmart where they bought more than 100 rolls of toilet paper just before the incident.
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according to the arrest affidavit, the kids who vandalized the home were under tara mooney's supervision. >> a lot of people wake up in the morning with a joel of morning coffee. how about raw chicken? apparently used tampons and sanitary napkins. filthy language written all over your home and your yard and your driveway, and this mom, a 41-year-old mother, apparently caught on tape stocking up on ammo for her night's evil doings? we are taking your calls. out to michael board, woai. this woman, ketchup smeared tampons and pads strewn, struck to windows. you open up your kitchen window in the morning and there right
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stuck is apparently a bloody maxi pad? hello. good morning. >> yeah. a toilet that was stuck in the driveway. this woman is 41 years old. how old do you have to be to know better to do this? now, she is not, there is no hard evidence that puts her at the scene of doing this. but there is evidence that she supported this. she condoned it. she even took the kids out. she must have said it's okay, you can do this. because she was taking them out to buy some of the supplies for this. nancy, these are really, really expensive homes. the homes in this neighborhood go for $600,000, $700,000. these are mansions in this dallas suburb. they estimate the cost of the damage of this at about $6,000. >> how did a ketchupy maxi pad equal $6,000 damage? >> well, there was writing on the driveway.
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they used condiment owes over. >> why am i seeing a peanut butter sandwich? oh, yes. there was a slew of condiments. ketchup, mustard, peanut butter. what's the $6,000 worth of damage? what did you say? >> $6,000. they wrote words on the stucco walls of the house. the writing with the condiments on the driveway. you can't just wash that out. that's stuck so they'll to have redo the driveway. >> ouch! >> i'm looking at that house. >> okay. so nice house. i'm sure over a million bucks house. but ellie, you got to write with more than ketchup to get $6,000 worth of damage. i'll get into the bill later. i want to hear about this mother. a 41-year-old mother, tara mauney. mom of a middle school girl in the home that was vandalized. doesn't the little girl live
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there and somebody writes [ expletive ]? >> this was actually a slumber party thrown by a 12-year-old girl. it was a bunch of her middle school friend that apparently caught this group of vandals in the act. and actually, nancy, facing this group of people who strewn toilet paper and maxi pads all over the yard. she recognized an adult with the kids and it was mrs. mauney, a child's mother who she recognized from school events. >> isn't it true that the little girl, the 12-year-old girl who lives in this house was having a sleepover that night. >> right. >> and the mother, the 12-year-old mother's was with them. they have a pool in the backyard. i know it is late. 2:00. and all the little girls are up. they're all outside and they're in the pool. and they see a boy's head poke up over the fence. around the pool. and they all get scared and they run in. and they look out and according
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to them, they see this 41-year-old mother with a posse of middle schoolers running away and they chase them, ellie. they chase mrs. mauney, according to them. >> these kids say they followed this group and the woman to her house which was only about 120 yards away. one of the girl says that mrs. mauney said to the group of pursuing kids, can i help you? and one of the girls said, yeah, you can go clean up mess you made. according to that girl's mother, their house was also pranked that night. they got a house full, a yard full of toilet paper. >> out to the lines. jeannine in connecticut. what do you think? >> caller: hi, nancy. i want to say that your twins are just gorgeous and i watch your show all time. >> thank you. >> caller: but any way, my question is, or actually my comment is, i don't understand what kind of mother does this. i have teenagers myself and i
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just don't understand what is going through her mind. >> i'm just wondering, aside from the example that she is setting or allegedly is setting, what is going to happen regarding a case against her. she is free on bail right now. she has been charged with felony criminal mischief, two years in a $10,000 fine. isn't it true, pat brown. she is now claiming that wasn't her. so is not she caught on tape at a local walmart buying all the stuff like, how many, how many rolls of toilet paper did she buy at walmart? >> she is clearly going to be nailed for this one. she is a bully. >> 108. pat, 108 rolls of tp. >> right. she helped these boys commit a crime. she encouraged them to commit a crime. she is a bully herself. it is a crime. she is a bully. i don't know why she did it. she is a bully.
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these are scared girls that told the story. said they wouldn't be involved and they want to blame it on the adult. and kids sneak out in the middle of the night and go down and do terrible things at the neighbor's house. but tara had nothing to do with the criminal behavior. >> unleash the lawyers. dan winslow, darryl cohen, richard herman. what about it, richard? >> felony. felony for this, nancy? come on. they toilet papered some houses. it's going on in the community. it's not a big deal. >> aren't you leaving out slut and whore house written on the wall in black?
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>> the mother didn't know that. and for the chicken, the shake and bake it's all good, nancy. it's not that bad. please. >> i understand what you're saying. i know that in the big scheme of things compared so the cases we talk about this is light. this is, you know, felony light. but the reality is the homeowner is stuck with slut and whore house written on their home. forget the chicken and maxi pads. >> you take the kids and make them do community service. make them realize what they did is wrong. as far as this woman buying toilet paper at walmart and helping the kids, it's a prank that went wild. this is not a big deal. it happens all the time. how many of us had toilet paper on our trees. >> i never did. >> well, i did. and i didn't like it, but we waited for the first rain.
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>> did it cost $6,000 to clean up your house many. >> what i think we have to do is [ male announcer ] sheets or bar, how do you get your bounce? i'm a sheets girl, but i don't just put'em in the dryer to freshen up my clothes. i put'em in my shoes, i put'em in my car, i put'em in my vases. girl, i been put'n'em for as long as i can remember. [ male announcer ] how do you get your bounce? [ woman ] sheets, i put'em!
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american hero. dustin wilson. 24, palm city, florida. purple heart. and artist. loved baseball, star wars. parents fran and lance. brother chris. sister jamie ella. widow hanna. justin wilson, american hero. and a shoutout tonight to friends kimberly and sharon. thanks for being big show fans. back in 60 seconds. the distances aren't getting shorter. ♪ the trucks are going farther. the new 2013 ram 1500. ♪ with the best-in-class fuel economy. engineered to move heaven and earth. ♪ guts. glory. ram.
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[ slap! slap! slap! ] [ music, laughter stop ] [ male announcer ] when your favorite foods fight you, fight back fast with tums smoothies. so fast and smooth, you'll forget you had heartburn. ♪ tum tum tum tum tums [ male announcer ] tums smoothies. are you one of them? drink dream water, the natural, fast acting sleep aid that helps you wake refreshed. visit drinkdreamwater.com. tara had absolutely nothing to do with any criminal behavior. absolutely nothing. >> according to the arrest affidavit, the kids who
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vandalized the home were under tara moony's supervision. >> hi, wendy, what's your question? >> caller: hi. how you doing today? >> good. >> caller: good. i just want to say this is setting a bad example for our children. and to me it's another case of bullying. these things are just going way too far. the little things that used to be little pranks are now turning into outrageous things. and this woman has set a poor example for the children and the community. >> to seth meyers clinical psychologist. what about it? >> this situation is so upsetting to hear about, because yes it is bullying. we have a lot of data now about bullying and the effect it has. this poor girl who lived in this vandalized house. she has to go to school the next day and she will be the girl who has slut written on her house.
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this is something she'll carry with her for years. this could lead to depression, substance abuse. >> what would you do? it's the question we will be asking beginning sunday night 9:00 eastern. when abc's hidden camera hit hosted by john qinones comes to hln. >> we wondered. how will people react when they see a toy traditionally meant for girls end up in a boy's hands? to find out we bring our hidden cameras to meyer's. a family owned toy store in livingston, new jersey. the moment our father and son actors walk through the door, the boy heads straight for the dolls. >> why do you want to get a barbie doll? you got to be kidding me. >> but i love barbies.
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>> you love barbies? since when do you like barbie dolls? >> i love barbies. they're my only. >> you got to be kidding me. >> i want this then. >> then there's this woman. it only takes a second for her to notice what's going on. >> but, daddy, i want it. >> absolutely not. can you believe it? >> no fair. >> would you allow your son to play with a barbie doll? you would? >> yeah. i was a kindergarten teacher. >> really? >> and some kids, you know, they go through a stage where they like to do that. >> where they like to play with -- >> yeah. >> my concern is he'll play with it -- yeah, he'll play with the dolls now then start to wear pink dresses. >> probably not. >> probably not? >> it's very natural for a 5-year-old to want to engage and play with the dolls and they

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