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tv   Nancy Grace  TBN  October 22, 2012 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT

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>> melissa, i've got to interrupt you. i've got a run. but it's an excellent point. you've written "shattered silence" and kimberly wohlert wrote "unworthy." and remember tomorrow night i'll have honey boo boo and her mom june right here plus an update on honey boo boo right here. and nancy grace right there now. breaking news tonight. live westminster, colorado, 8:30 a.m. this little girl, 10-year-old jessica ridgeway walks three blocks en route to school. mommy watches as she walks away from home. jessica never seen again. fbi search dogs descend onto her home and the backyard, this as a
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mystery man tries to lure children into his car with candy nearby, but that incident never pub sighed. . then a terrible find, the awful discovery. 10-year-old jessica's dismembered body found just seven miles from her own home. reports a man, a local photographer arrested in the kidnap and assault of another young girl nearby. is that linked to jessica's murder? investigators warning neighbors tonight, a child predator at large still in the community. bombshell tonight. reports dna on jessica's book bag could be linked to a male wanted in a sex assault of a female jogger across from jessie's school. and tonight, has blonde hair believed to be jessica's and receipts for garbage bags been found near the girl's remains? in a stunning turn, a handmade
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wooden cross found planted near jessie's body. left behind by jessica's killer? >> a clue that police hope will help crack the case of a murdered girl in colorado. >> jessica ridgeway. >> a small wooden cross that police say belongs to jessica ridgeway's killer. >> we believe it was left behind or dropped by somebody that was involved. >> the cross has three distinct marks on one side, and on the other what appears to be the letter "s." >> it potentially was left intentionally. >> police are re-examining an attempted abduction. >> looking back, the crimes in this neighborhood do seem eerily similar. a 22-year-old woman running this it trail attacked, gets away. four months later jessica ridgeway didn't. >> fairly close to where jessica was abducted and later where her body was found. >> this is a tense time for the
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community. >> it's scary. it's very scary. >> we recognize there's a predator at large in our community. >> that sicko is out here still. who knows where he is at, but we need to find him. >> good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. bombshell tonight. live to westminster, colorado. 8:30 a.m., a little girl walks just three blocks en route to school, never seen again. now, 10-year-old jessie's dismembered body found a couple miles from home. tonight, bombshell reports dna on jessie's book bag could be linked to a man wanted in a sex assault of a jogger right across from jessie's school. and in a stunning turn tonight, we learn a hand-made wooden cross, it is planted near
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jessie's dismembered body? we're learning all sorts of information tonight as we go to where, for instance, we learn that there are reports that jessie's clothes were neatly folded up and put in her book bag. remember, let's see that video, liz. her book bag and her water bottle with her name on it found discarded like it was thrown out of the car in a nearby neighborhood. there you are seeing those shots. were jessie's clothing neatly folded up and placed inside her book bag? is this linked to a man that tried to attack a nearby jogger? all of this is happening, and this is very important to the investigation. all of this is happening within a couple of miles radius, which adds to the theory that this is a local predator. that jogger, the female jogger, catch this. she was jogging along a trail
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when a guy came up behind her with a chemical-soaked rag and put it over her mouth and nose. she got away. we've got a description. all right. another jogger attacked. another attempted attack on a little boy nearby. and now jessie's remains found in an open field? all of this within the same radius of a couple of miles. jessie's home, her school, the jogging route, the location where her backpack and water bottle were discarded, and now another monkey wrench thrown in, but it's a piece of the puzzle. a receipt, a receipt. i can't tell you how important this is. straight out to nia bender, operations manager, tnn, denver. there's so much happening, it's fast and furious tonight, nia. tell me about the receipt. >> apparently the receipt is
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from a king supers, which is located not that far from jessica's home, in all reality about 100th and wadsworth. that's just a few miles from jessica's home. now, they found the receipts. they looked things up. they went to the king supers. and now they're trying to go through surveillance tape. they have about four hours to go through. they can save that in one shot. the receipt, on the receipt, though, it does show a purchase for trash bags. >> okay. what do we know about that location, nia? we're showing it right now. where does it figure into the radius we're talking about? >> it's that general neighborhood, within a five to six-square mile area. it's not far from her home at all. it's very suburban and very, very quiet family-oriented area. >> all right.
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i want to go out to matt zarrell. what can you tell me about these other attacks. there's two joggers i believe and one little boy, attempted attacks. >> yes, nancy. okay. so we've got the two joggers on the one boy. may 28th is the jogger. 22-year-old jogging on a trail around the lake next no jessica's school. at 1:15 p.m. she encounters a male suspect. he grabs her from behind and tries to put a rag over her mouth. the victim said the rag had a chemical smell on it. she was able to get away and called 911. this is not the first time we encountered this person, because in july of 2010 another jogger was chased by a man fitting the description. in addition, nancy, three weeks before the jogger attack in may, an 8-year-old boy, there was an attempted kidnapping on an 8-year-old boy. and that suspect also fit a similar description. >> so, you know, all these armchair quarterbacks saying, okay, an attacker that would
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attack a full-grown woman, a sex predator would not be interested in children, or a guy that would attack a little boy would not be interested in little girls. okay, if this is the same guy, matt zarrell, he is disproving all those amateur theories. so what do i have, matt, if anything, linking this one guy to all of these victims? >> okay, nancy, the key here regarding jessica is dna, because kdvr is reporting that dna from the suspect in jessica's murder has been linked to the alleged -- the attack on the jogger on may 28th. they've linked it through dna, and they do believe that the jogger, the two jogger attacks was the same suspect and they're working to confirm it was the 8-year-old boy was also the same suspect as well. >> okay. hold on, matt. i have to get this straight, because we have so many victims we're talking about. this may just be the key to
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unlock the mystery to jessica's murder. i'm not understanding how they got dna in an attempted sex attack on the jogger, matt, because it's my understanding he came up behind her as she was jogging along. what do you know? >> yes, nancy. as the victim passed the suspect, he grabbed her from behind and tried to put a rag over her mouth. she said the rag has this chemical smell on it, that she was able to get away, nancy. so i wonder if there was dna under her fingernails. maybe that's why they got the dna from the suspect. >> good thinking, matt. good thinking. how did the incident with the little boy go down? >> three weeks before the jogger attack, an 8-year-old boy is out with his sister and the sister's friend. they're playing games outside and walking on a trail near kettner lake, the same location as the jogger, right near jessica's elementary school. the suspect grabbed the boy by the neck and tried to pull him over the guardrail onto the
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street. the sister and sister's friend panic. they throw the cell phone at him. they scream and yell. the suspect panics and runs away. cops get on the scene and try to track him down. they're not able to. >> do we have dna in that case? >> nancy, they tried to get dna from the toy gun that the boy was holding, but they were not able to get the suspect's dna from it. >> what's connecting that to the jogger, a physical description? >> yes, nancy. the mother of the 8-year-old boy says the description of the suspect who attacked the 8-year-old boy is similar to the suspect description in the jogger case. police have not confirmed an exact connection yet, but they're working to do that as we speak. >> okay. what's my physical description? >> okay. you've got a light-skinned male, 18 to 35 or someone -- >> wait, wait, wait. when you say light-skinned male, matt, matt, matt. is it a white guy? >> yes. >> okay. it's a white guy. go ahead. what's the rest. what do i know? >> 18 to 35.
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brown hair, medium build, 5'6" to 5'8", sunglasses with small frames. at the time of the jogger attack he was wearing a black t-shirt, jeans and a navy blue ball cap. >> what kind of frames on the t-shirts -- i mean on the sunglasses? >> sunglasses with small frames. >> and he wore the sunglasses on the attack on the little boy and jogger? >> i have not seen an exact description of the suspect's sunglasses, but they said he was also between 5'6" and 6 foot tall. >> and the other thing -- out to victoria taft, talk show host with kpmn. victoria, i don't need dna to tell me it's the same guy. you have a white male that is stalking this lake, ketner lake. how many other white males have a slim athletic build are going to be attacking people on the same jogging trail in basically a low populated area compared
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to, for instance, philadelphia, manhattan, atlanta, san francisco. so long story short, of course, it's the same guy. i have the same guy linked up to jessie's murder because his dna is on the backpack. i'm trying to figure out how his dna got on that backpack. his dna is on her backpack, and i understand there's dna at the crime scene where her body is found hacked to pieces. i've got dna linking him to the jogger, and a physical description linking him to a little girl. what about it, victoria taft? >> you know, nancy, one of the things that is arising here where i am in a case is the small stuff matters. and in this case in colorado you had attack after attack after attack. maybe they didn't seem quite as serious, but everything counts. now the police have to go back over all of the crimes which were committed in this area, nancy, that you rightly point out has been the scene of so
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many different sort of odd coincidences. attempted abductions, attempted attacks. they're going through clear back to 2011. so nancy, you're right, it's probably the same guy. we have a predator, and he's loose. and those parents -- in fact one set of parents, they actually moved out of the neighborhood because they were afraid for their children. >> to pete marrone, director of virginia department of forensic science. pete, thank you for being with us. i want to talk very quickly before we go to break about that handmade cross that was found planted near jessica's remains. is it possible to get dna off of it? what do you think, pete? what do you think forensically about the crime scene? >> you ask an interesting question. is it possible? anything is really possible. on the other hand, it's equally possible they may not be able to find anything.
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when you're dealing with touch dna and then the cross or even the backpack that you spoke of, it's not necessarily a sure thing. people have to understand that. quite often you may get some results, but the results won't necessarily be meaningful. one of the things we have to be careful of in following it as many of your folks have -- i usually say that. boring. boring.
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a little girl snatched while simply walking to school. >> there's a predator at large in our community.
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>> lines of law enforcement officers search where the body was found. >> tonight the breaking news in the search for 10-year-old jessica is coming fast and furious. back to you, matt zarrell. what more have we found out about the crime scene itself, in particular i want to talk about those trash bags? >> okay, nancy, now kdvr is reporting that portions of jessica's remains were found on the black garbage bags. we were talking last week whether it was inside the bag. and now reports surface from the denver post that remains were found inside that black garbage bag. >> unleash the lawyers. burke strunsky, senior district attorney out of l.a., eric schwartzreich, defense attorney miami, jason oceans, defense attorney, new york. jason, let's kick it off with you. i was listening to what matt zarrell just said about this 10-year-old little girl's
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remains, her body hacked to pieces. i know for a fact reports are her clothing was neatly folded up in her backpack. so this is painting a horrible scenario as to the hours surrounding her death. and now we're just trying to decide, were her hacked-up body parts inside or outside of garbage bag? >> right. >> does colorado have the death penalty, anybody? clark, do they have the death penalty? weigh in, jason. >> listen, nancy, i hear where you're going in terms of this is the typical case that's out in the public eye. >> i didn't say typical. >> that would require us to think about the death penalty. but i think before we get to that point, i think law
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enforcement needs to make certain about who they're targeting, making sure these are not isolated incidents in and among themselves. >> it's death by needle, jason. >> death by needle would be appropriate for the perpetrator who is convicted of these crimes, nancy. i don't think anyone would disagree. >> not only that, eric schwartzreich, defense attorney, does the mom have to wrestle with her daughter's death? she has to wrestle with her child's murder, her dismemberment, and her likely sex attack prior to her murder. thoughts? >> nancy, it's awful. it's atrocious, it's heinous. to echo what jason is saying, we need to make sure we get the right person. everyone deserves justice. >> put him up. >> her family deserves justice
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and the suspect deserves justice. we need to make sure -- >> what do you think that justice would be? you think there's a problem with dna? you don't accept -- >> nancy. >> there might be a cover-up in the o.j. simpson case? >> nancy, i would agree with you, we would both be wrong on this. the issue is it's not a cover-up. it's not about dna. it's about making sure i's are dotted and t's are crossed and they get the right person. i'm making sure you get the right suspect. >> talk some sense. >> the crime is going to be solved by dna evidence. there's no question forensic evidence will lead us to who this is and ultimately to a conviction. it's hard to imagine -- >> come on, burke, burke, burke. put it out there. may he rot in hell, all right? >> no doubt. anybody that chops up -- kidnaps and chops up an 8-year-old child deserves the death penalty. that's the kind of person that the death penalty was absolutely designed for. >> it's too good for him. the death penalty is too good for him. he'll get the needle and just drift off to sleep. [ male announcer ] when a major hospital
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get your first full prescription free and save on refills at advaircopd.com. the developments surrounding the crime scene where this little girl's body was found are coming in so quickly tonight. out to the lines. chris in colorado. hi, chris. what's your question? >> caller: okay. we had two attempts in arvada in september not so far from where the little girl was found. and we -- i lived in
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westminster. my son lives in arvada. nobody was alert that this happened. one was an 8-year-old boy and one was a 12-year-old boy. i want to know why we weren't notified of this. this could have been -- >> you know what, chris in colorado? i want to know too. i want to know, too, chris in colorado. because the guy luring children into the car with candy was not publicized at all. none of the attacks around ketner lake were publicized. not a notice, not a flyer, nothing. now this girl is dead and dismembered. i don't spend money
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a clue that police hope will crack the case of a murdered girl in colorado. >> jessica ridgeway. >> a small wooden cross. police say belongs to jessica ridgeway's killer. >> we believe it was left behind or dropped by somebody who was involved. >> the cross has three distinct marks on one side and on the other what appears to be the letter s. >> it potentially was left intentionally. >> police are re-examining an attempted abduction. >> looking back the crimes seem in this westminster neighborhood do seem eerily similar. a 22-year-old woman running this trail, attacked, gets away. four months later, jessica ridgeway didn't. >> fairly close to where jessica was abducted, and later where her body was found. >> it's such a tense time for that community. >> it's scary. it's very scary. >> we recognize there's a predator at large in our community. >> the sicko is out here still. who knows where he's at. >> what happened to 10-year-old
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jessica? in just a few days my children, believe it or not, are going to turn 5 years old. to all of you that prayed when they were in intensive care when they were born, please don't stop. can you imagine what this mother is going through? she watches her little 10-year-old girl walk away from the house. three blocks she had to walk to meet up with her friends to walk to school in the morning. she's dead. she's not just dead. she's clearly been sexually molested, held captive, murdered, and hacked up. as we analyze all the clues tonight forensically, what is
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she doing? can you imagine? she's probably sitting at home on her sofa in the dark going, where's my girl? i want to go back to -- hold on, panel. hold on, everybody. i want to go back to chris in colorado who just called in. chris is very familiar with this area. she's hearing about all these attacks. there was no publication of any of these attacks. tonight through dna, through logistics and physical description, this one guy, a white male, as we predicted last week, is responsible for attempted attacks on we believe two joggers and a little boy. literally, pulling the little boy over a fence, away from his playmates to molest him.
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okay? nobody knew. nobody knew. there wasn't a flyer put up, a warning, nothing. and so jessica's mom lets her walk to school that day. right by ketner lake. chris in colorado, i want to hear your thoughts on this. >> caller: it's terrible, because if we would have known, so many people would have gotten somebody to walk their kids to school. you know? kids are our life, you know? it's terrible. >> you know what, chris in colorado? if anything happened to the twins, to either one of them, i would just go lay do you know in front of the railroad, in front of a train. >> caller: right. >> i couldn't stand it. >> caller: what do you think this mother is going through?
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>> i don't know. i don't know what she's going through. i want to go back to nia bender. nia, is this true? was none of the attacks publicized or talked about on the local tv stations, nothing? >> well, i think they got a little bit of press, but they really didn't get much press. i mean surprisingly enough, as big a city as the denver metropolitan area is, there are a lot of instances that take place all across the counties. but it wasn't made a big deal. sadly, it wasn't turned into a big deal at all. >> matt zarrell, let's go through the evidence that we're learning tonight. i want to start with this handmade wooden cross seemingly planted right there on the scene. >> okay. now, the cops actually released the pictures of this cross. they actually say it can help identify and locate jessica's killer. it's about an inch to inch and a half tall, an inch wide three verticals bars etched on one side as you're seeing in the photos. now, the cops have confirmed that the cross does not belong
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to the ridgeway family, and was recovered at one of the crime scenes. they would not say which one. they believe the cross was left behind by the killer. they're looking for someone who may carry or wear this type of cross or may have recently purchased one of these, or is known to have some association with one. cops are getting together with with local businesses including religious stores to get a feel of who could have sold this cross. >> to dr. vincent dimaio, former medical examiner bexar county, forensic pathologist. doctor, you have dealt with so many homicide cases. what can we do with the garbage bags? what can we learn? >> essentially, you want to find out where they were sold and then look for video cameras. all stores now days have cameras. the receipt would give you an idea when it was sold. then you can look at the film to see if you can figure out who actually bought it. the other thing is you have to make a detailed examination for the presence of fingerprints and
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also dna, if it had been handled with bare hands. >> you're right. matt zarrell from that receipt we can link it back up to king's grocery store, you can get the day of the purchase of the bar garbage bags, the time of the purchase of the garbage bags, the clerk id. i learned all this from working at sears myself where you have to punch in your i.d. every time you ring something up. you can get the date, the time, and the clerk that sold the person the garbage bags. what more do we know about the receipt, matt? >> employees told kdvr that police and security guards actually spent days going through four months of surveillance video, trying to find images of the person who bought the garbage bags. they had a photocopy of the receipt with them, and the police told the employees that it was connected to jessica's disappearance. kdvr also spoke to the cashier who sold the garbage bags to the person. unfortunately, she doesn't have a specific memory of the
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transaction or the guy, but she says she was shown two receipts by police. the receipts were long. one was in the amount of $60. they're still combing over the surveillance video. they're trying to key in on who bought these garbage bags. yeah. it's his thing. i don't even participate. boom! here it comes! bring it back! bring it home! [ male announcer ] when you combine creamy velveeta with zesty rotel tomatoes and green chilies, you get a bowl of queso that makes even this get-together better. throughout our lives. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multi-vitamin designed for men's health concerns as we age. it has more of 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+.
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the body was discovered. >> about eight miles away from where she lived. >> very disturbing details. >> from the helicopter you have footage of the body which would show the public it's not intact. >> overnight investigators released new photos of the cross, hoping someone recognizes it. it was found at one of the crime scenes in the case, but police won't say which one because that is information only the killer knows. >> profilers say statistically the murderer is most likely a man and possibly a local. >> we are committed until we achieve justice for jessica. >> looks like it was cut weather by hand or by machine out of a solid block of wood. we believe it was left behind or dropped by somebody that was involved and knows information that we're looking for. >> left intentionally perhaps?
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>> it perhaps was left intentionally. >> a handmade wooden cross with distinctive markings on it. religious stores have been approached. we don't know if that's where this cross came from. take a look at it. was it planted there? was it dropped there? matt zarrell, what exactly do we know about the cross? listen up everybody if you know anyone that wears a cross like this or has one in their home. see? it's not perfectly perpendicular. it's not straight up and down. you can see that it's hand made. go ahead, matt. >> i'll give you the best description i can give you. it's an inch and a half tall and an inch wide with three vertical bars etched on one side. the cross also had a hole drilled through the upper post portion to possibly be worn on a necklace. the opposite side of the three vertical bars is a zigzag pattern carved into it. the upper post portion is offset from the lower post portion below the horizontal section. the cops have confirmed the
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cross does not belong to the ridgeway family. it was recovered at one of the crime scenes. they do believe it was left behind by the killer. they're looking for someone who may carry or wear this type of cross, may have recently bought it or is known to have an association with it. as you mentioned, they're looking for local businesses that may sell this specific cross, and we spoke to a local store operator who also says it looks to be handmade. because as you mentioned, it is not perpendicular. >> okay. we definitely need a shrink now. joining me is a clinical psychologist from l.a. dr. rahmani, explain to us what this tells us about the killer. >> we know a couple of things. we know when we're dealing with serial criminal, it's not unusual for them to take a trophy or leave something behind. this is a guy who keeps trying to do this, and now it's almost as though he achieved a horrifying goal of killing this girl and no something is left
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behind, if it was left at that scene, it's something to think about. it feels like a ritualized thing and something he left behind as a mark, not as a mistake. >> unleash the lawyers. strunsky, schwartzreich, oceans. jason oceans, you and i have analyzed -- you've tried a ton of cases. >> right. >> i've prosecuted a lot of cases. let's talk what this means. where is oceans? i see a duck. i want to see the lawyers. there you go. okay, jason. >> yeah. let's think about it. you're a father of two. what does this mean? what killer would leave not just an object, something as she says at the scene, but a cross, jason? a cross that the symbol of love and sacrifice to millions of people across the globe. he clearly kidnaps, molests, murders, hacks up a 10-year-old little girl, and dares to put a
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cross at the scene? what is this telling me about him? >> it all goes to the profile, and obviously, you could see that the demonic side of the killer, predator, first trying adult women. now after children. he could be something where he was frustrated from getting his initial victim, and then went after children. is so angry from something in his past that he throws down the cross in some intentional message to all of us. it's horrific. >> kardian, steve kardian, former police detective, instructor at defend. how can they narrow down the list of possible killers? >> nancy, there's a history that exists between the cross and the killer. when they -- if they can can identify where that cross came from, it came in his possession.
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he deposited it at the crime scene. intentionally or otherwise, and the history exists. so if they can connect those two, the killer and the history, they can identify this individual. >> well, i know this too. i'm going to go not only to steve kardian, but to strunsky, schwartzreich and oceans. okay, schwartzreich, this guy, while he obviously is a repeat offender, he's also an amateur, right? because why would you grab a child, a boy, when he's there with a group of other children and try to grab him and pull him across the fence and then when they start screaming and throw a cell phone at you, you run, okay? then he tries to kidnap or assault an adult female, who fights him off. >> nancy, you give a dog a ball, he'll always chase it. there's something very conflicted about this individual conflicted because he leaves the cross there, and conflicted
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because of the heinous allegations. >> what you know, conflicted my [ bleep ]. he's getting the death penalty. what about it, strunsky? >> i think this is a person that is getting better at attacking these people, and that's the scary part about it. he tried several times and he finally succeeded. and unfortunately he succeeded with this very young girl, and then lives out some kind of sycophantsy, cutting her up, leaving the cross there. my hope is that the cross allows us to find who -- it should be tested for dna and ultimately that will lead to the conviction. mm. some laxatives like dulcolax can cause cramps. but phillips' caplets don't. they have magnesium. for effective relief of occasional constipation. thanks. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. you see us, at the start of the day. on the company phone list at's a few names longer. you see us bank on busier highways. on once empty fields. everyday you see all the ways all of us at us bank
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as police literally beat the bushes, the fbi present as profile. >> could be your boss, could be your friend and could be your family member. >> how safe is our neighborhood? >> the sicko's out here still. i don't know where he's at but we need to find him. >> we are taking your calls tonight. developments for the search for the killer of 10-year-old jessica are coming quickly. make in south carolina. what's your question, dear? >> caller: this cross makes me feel like it's the sign of a serial killer. there are any serial killers nearby? >> mike in south carolina. do you recall dexter ever leaving a clue on the scene? doesn't he cover everything in plastic so he does not leave a clue? >> well, maybe not the best
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analogy. >> you're talking about a serial killer. now, i agree with you that this is a characteristic of a serial killer, but, mike in south carolina, this guy is an absolute amateur. come on, he left the receipt for the garbage bag, mike, in south carolina, but that does not preclude the possibility he has killed before. tender white meat chicken and vegetables in a crust made from scratch. marie callender's. it's time to savor. [ male announcer ] start with an all new award winning car. good. now find the most hard core driver in america. that guy, put him in it. what's this? [ male announcer ] tell him he's about to find out. you're about to find out. [ male announcer ] test it. highlight the european chassis, 6 speed manual, dual exhaust, wide stance, clean lines, have him floor it, spin it, punch it, drift it, put it through its paces, is he happy?
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coal mines but authorities continue their search for the little girl. >> a little girl snatched while simply walking to school. >> how safe is our neighborhood. >> we want to determine if there is a connection to those two cases. >> who could do something like this? >> all our efforts are in search of her abductor. >> what can you tell me about hair? >> multiple reports are saying a clump of blond hair was found about a mile from where jessica's remains were found. a source says the cops believe it may be jessica's hair. the cops say they don't even know if it's dog's hair. we're waiting for come
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firmation. >> where was the hair found? >> near a field about a file mooil from where the remains were found? >> dr. demayo, to match up hair, of course you can match it up to a certain extent without the root. if they have the root they can positively identify it back to her. but they would know very quickly whether it was human hair or animal or dog, correct? >> right. it takes a few minutes. all you have to do is put it underneath the microscope. the structure of animal hair is completely different than human. they would know if it was human. the next thing to do is to do dna testing. you don't need the roots from you have mitochondrial dna.
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>> here mitochondrial is going to work. at first it seems far fetched her hair would be in another field but, doctor, we've got her back pack and water bottle far away from where the body was found. then there's the body. i mean, it's entirely possible that it is her hair. dr. demayo, how is it that the killer's dna is on her back pack? >> well, it goes into this new concept of touch dna. that is, your body is covered with cells, which are gradually beginning to fall off your body. so if you just handle an object enough, some of the cells that are on your body will be transferred to the object. you'd be -- by being rubbed off. in the laboratory you

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