i want to thank dana ramos for sharing her story. she's the author of "the skin regime." also june shannon and honey boo boo alana thompson. tomorrow night we'll talk to a man that went in for surgery and found he had full female organs. thank you for watching. thank you for calling. "nancy grace" begins right now. breaking news tonight, live to rural clayton. the desperate search in a story on our radar, 12-year-old autumn pasquale on her white bicycle in her own neighborhood disappears. bombshell tonight at this hour, we are receiving information 12-year-old autumn's remains have just been found. stuffed into a blue recycling container near an abandoned

house, put out with all of the other bins in the hopes she would be thrown away like trash. >> two individuals have been >> two individuals have been arrested and charged with the murder of this young girl. two teenage brothers, age 15 and 17 years old have been charged with first degree murder, conspiracy to commit murder, disposing of the body, tampering with evidence, and theft. the 15-year-old brother has also been charged with one count of luring. both are in police custody at the present time. the gloucester medical examiner's office has primarily determined cause of death as blunt force trauma consistent with strangulation.

the manner of death is homicide. >> good evening, i am nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. bombshell tonight, we go live to rural clayton. 12-year-old autumn pasquale, a beautiful little girl on her white bicycle in her own neighborhood disappears. we are receiving information that at this hour 12-year-old autumn's remains have been positively identified, stuffed into a blue recycling container, one of those bins, put out in front of an abandoned house, and it was put out with all of the other recycling bins. that was the day for recycling pickup, obviously in the hopes that autumn's body would be thrown away like trash. well, it was not. straight out to carly romalino joining me from "gloucester county times."

carly, thank you for being with us. you're there on scene. explain to me the timing, and then i'll work up to the discovery of her body and the location of the remains. but i have to get the timing down, carly. i am trying to figure out how the timing relates to who would have seen her, who would have been exposed to her. go ahead, carly. >> well, autumn was last seen at 1:30 on saturday and then she didn't return home at all obviously. but when she didn't return home by about 8:00 that night, parents decided to call police. now there was a homecoming, the high school homecoming football game and other events going on in the small town, but apparently she never made it. >> okay. let me figure something out. with me is carly romalino. she is with the gloucester county times, joining me there in clayton. carly, was she supposed to come

back home at 8:00 p.m. or was she supposed to go to some kind of homecoming event? what did you say? >> according to police, her parents expected her home by about 8:00. they ended up calling the authorities around 9:00 when she never returned and they never received any correspondence from her. >> now carly romalino, i know she left her home on her bicycle. it was a white bmx. but was she spotted or seen by anybody after that 12:30 departure from her home? >> we have not heard that she had been seen by anyone at that point. police have not released that information saying anyone came forward saying they had seen her. >> frankly, carly, the text messages she sent out, that's a whole another can of worms,

because police are refusing to tell us what she sent the last -- it was around a 2:00 p.m. text. she pedals out of her dad's driveway at 12:30, broad daylight. how many of you out there have seen your child walk off or drive off. it is high noon, all right? it's a weekend. everything's fine. she is supposed to be back home at 8:00 p.m. she's supposedly going to another little girl's home. she is a 12-year-old little girl. she pedals off. that night at 8:00, she doesn't show back up, they call police at 9:00. but by that time whoever took her may have had a 12 hour jump on the police, except for the text messages. ellie jostad, our chief editorial producer, you and i have been pouring over those text messages that were apparently sent from her cell phone. what do we know about them, ellie?

>> nancy, we know at 1:22 p.m., one of her girlfriends said she got a text from her. however, the girl says she doesn't think that text was meant for her. the text reportedly said don't be like that. the girl didn't know what this was in reference to, thought it was possibly sent to her accidentally. then at 2:30 p.m., we know that another text came from autumn's cell phone, but we don't know who that text was going to or what it said. >> right there, i'm suspicious of that 2:30 text. either, ellie, that first text that went to her little friend was not sent by her, autumn, or it was misdirected. either somebody else had her cell phone sending messages or it was misdirected, and what's the significance. we have to look at this, at a 2:30 text from a 12-year-old girl ends up dead in a blue recycling bin. what is so significant about that 2:30 text from autumn's cell phone that cops will not reveal who it was sent to?

was it sent to somebody that's under suspicion, that they're looking at? was it sent to someone or somewhere that would suggest they know where she was going? okay. i want to go back to you, ellie. i know all about her leaving on her white bicycle. i understand the time line. i get it. but i want to ask you a couple of quick questions, ellie. was her cell phone found with her? >> don't know. >> have they found her cell phone? >> don't know that. >> because it is very possible the cell phone was actually used by her killer to throw police off the track. all right. ellie, what more do we know about the day of her disappearance? that's what i'm honing in on. the day she disappeared, i'm starting at square one. >> right. nancy, she left her home at about 12:30. she lives with her father, her father's girlfriend, siblings of hers and also the girlfriend's children. she left at 12:30 on the white

bmx bike, headed to go to a nearby park or to meet another little friend. she was supposed to be home for 8:00 curfew. now people who know her say she was never late, always was in touch with her father, and when she didn't come home by 8:00 as promised, that's when her parents got concerned. they reported her missing about an hour later. >> now i'm seeing something that doesn't make sense right off the bat, ellie. let me throw it to you, carly romalino, joining me from the gloucester county times. she's supposed to go to a friend's at 9:30 in the morning, why didn't the friend call and go hey, where are you? >> i can't answer that. i have no idea, nancy. >> do we know, ellie, whether the little friend tried to contact autumn? do we know anything about -- did the friend know autumn was even coming over, or did autumn say hey, i'm riding over to susie's house and didn't tell susie?

>> right. that's all unclear right now. we don't know exactly where she was headed. >> okay. >> there was a park they were checking, thought she might be heading there. obviously she was much closer to home. >> all right. i understand the day she left, and it was on what day of the week? it was a saturday, correct? >> that's right. >> all right. if the messages really are sent from her, on her phone, then we know she's alive at 2:30 that day. okay. let's go to the discovery of the body. ellie, what do we know? >> nancy, the body was found in front of an abandoned boarded up house just about five blocks away from where autumn lives. this house like i said has been described as abandoned. it is just one street over and a couple blocks down from where autumn lived. it was found last night about 10:00 p.m. it was recycling day today. so all of the homes on the street, or most of them at least hath had those blue recycling

containers out on the curb for pickup. >> now ellie, i'm trying to figure something out about recycling. don't you have a recycling bin assigned to you? and if this was an abandoned house, boarded up, they wouldn't still have a recycling bin assigned to them. so whose recycling bin is it? how did it get there? this says to me, i am just on the outside looking in, that this is somebody that knows that neighborhood, that knows that's the day recycling bins go out, because nobody in that abandoned house pushed the recycling bin to the street, el. so somebody had to know that was the day of recycling, get that bin, put her dead body in the bin, and put it out there to get picked up. or, ellie, somebody is driving along, says hey, i'll stick the body in there. >> right.

>> well, here is something very interesting one of our producers learned. they spoke to clayton public works and those bins are associated with a particular property. and even more than that, they have a computer chip in the bin that weighs the garbage and kind of keeps a record of it. so if the chip is still intact and the person we talked to said they sometimes can fall off or be damaged, if there's still a chip in the recycling container, they'll be able to figure out what home it's linked to. >> interesting about that recycling chip, el. i wonder if it can tell when the garbage is put into the recycling bin. when does it get weighed? in other words, let's say go on military time, let's say 12:15 military time, that would be 12:15 noon, suddenly that garbage bin weighs in at 80 pounds.

>> right. >> they would then know? i'm just wondering if the chip -- what do we know about that chip? what will it tell us? will it tell us when the weight went into the garbage bin? >> yeah, i don't know that, nancy, or it is also possible i would imagine that it is when the trash is picked up. it is sort of an automatic system that picks up with an arm, loads it into the bin, the truck that pulls it away. i would imagine it could be weighed at that point and not earlier. from local communities to local businesses.

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crime was committed. early this morning, members of the gloucester county prosecutor's office, new jersey state police, and clayton police department executed a search warrant. the search warrant revealed personal belongings of autumn in the juveniles' residence, including her bmx bike along with other physical evidence supporting these charges. >> we are back and taking your calls. a story on our radar, the desperate search for a 12-year-old little girl last seen pedaling off of her own driveway on a white bmx bicycle. autumn pasquale. we are getting confirmation tonight her remains have been positively identified. 12-year-old autumn has been murdered. her body stuffed into a blue recycling bin and put out on the

street on recycling day like all the other blue bins in the hope that she would be thrown away as if she were trash. we are taking your calls. i want to go back out to reporter from "gloucester county times,". carly romalino is joining us. carly, there have been a rash of abduction attempts and i don't know what to make of them, i don't know how many are legitimate, but from the m.o. of these alleged abduction attempts, we're getting an idea, we're getting a general profile of who may be involved in those attempts, and they're right in the same area. what do we know about them, carly? >> there have been some other

abduction attempts actually in bergen county, which is about 120 miles from gloucester county. right now, gloucester county prosecutor's office has not announced that this is linked to the bergen county abduction attempt, and the gloucester county prosecutor also has not announced if any arrests have been made in autumn pasquale's death. >> joining me there on the scene on the ground in clayton is carly romalino from the gloucester county times. to clark goldband. clark, these other attempted kidnapping, what can you tell me about them? what do we know? 120 miles away is a long distance to be the same predator, but not unheard of. go ahead. >> well, nancy, i can tell you that one such attempt actually happened this past thursday. so just a few days before she went missing. and it was a 13-year-old girl around 7:00 a.m. on her way to school when at that time a man

tried to snatch her into a hatchback. she got away. >> a hatchback? whoa, whoa. what do you mean? >> a hatchback car. >> well, i know, but what kind of a hatchback? >> i believe a gray hatchback vehicle is that description. >> are you talking about like a minivan, a gray four-door hatchback, i am seeing it now. white male between the ages of 30 and 50, let me guess? >> you hit the nail on the head. >> all right. that was in the early morning hours. it was a girl, a white female. what about the other abduction attempts? what do we know about them? >> yes, nancy, there is another one involving a girl the same age, a 13-year-old, attempted abduction on the soccer field. in that one, the girl was snatched and reportedly taken into a wooded area. however, she was able to flee and escape. as you can see on the screen, these are the sketches of those abduction suspects. >> leave the sketch up, liz. take a look at the two on the

left, one in the middle and left. notice the lips and nose, the cheek structure, very, very similar, those two, just that one has facial hair and glasses. certainly would not throw off a professional looking at these. all right. so how close were those, clark, to where autumn went missing? >> nancy, i believe they're both about 100 miles away or so, about a 90 minute drive. >> okay. so these are the one that carly romalino is talking about, right? >> yes, nancy. i want to stress the girls were both 13 years old, autumn was 12, so about the same age. seems they haven't been moving much lately. but things are starting to turn around because of business people like you. and regions is here to help. with the experience and service to keep things rolling. from business loans to cash management,

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during the course of this investigation the juvenile's mother contacted law enforcement regarding postings on his facebook account. law enforcement were able to develop additional information which led to the discovery of autumn's body late last night. law enforcement continued to gather additional information which led to the authorization of the search warrant. >> you know what, when speaking as a crime victim myself, when i hear anybody talking about closure, you know, i don't know what that is because nothing is ever the same as it was before ever.

you learn to go on and i don't know how these parents are going to go on. we are getting confirmation as we go to air tonight that a body found in a blue recycling bin put out on the street with all of the other bins in the neighborhood contained the remains of 12-year-old autumn pasquale. she was last seen driving out of her driveway of her home where she lived with her dad, her stepbrothers and sisters. she was on a white odyssey bmx. now i'm getting information that the bike has been recovered in a different home in that neighborhood, but it's not one, two, three, case open, case closed.

turns out this bike was picked up by another teen kid that is known for swiping bikes. so bottom line, ellie, that doesn't really implicate the teen kid at all. >> right, nancy. these are reports that are just breaking. apparently they did recover her bike in the home and they are talking to the teens that live there right now, but it's unclear whether or not they are suspected in her death and possible abduction, or if it's just they picked up that bike, they stole that bike. we don't know. dumb luck? or good decisions? ones i've made. ones we've all made. about marriage. children. money. about tomorrow. here's to good decisions. who matters most to you says the most about you. massmutual is owned by our policyholders

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two individuals have been arrested and charged with the murder of this young girl. two teenage brothers, age 15 and 17 years old, have been charged with first degree murder, conspiracy to commit murder, disposing of the body, tampering with evidence, and theft. the 15-year-old brother has also been charged with one count of luring. both are in police custody at the present time. the gloucester county medical examiner's office has preliminarily determined that the cause of death as blunt force trauma consistent with strangulation. the manner of death is homicide. >> we are live and taking your calls. a story on our radar, the desperate search for a 12-year-old little girl, autumn pasquale there in a rural area of clayton has come to an end tonight.

we are getting confirmation that a body found in a blue recycling bin is that of this 12-year-old little girl. and it is not just in the bin, get an insight into this killer's mind. it's rolled out to the edge of the street with all the other recycling bins in the hopes that some sanitation worker would just throw it into the trash truck and drive off, thrown away like trash. well, it didn't work that way. with me from the "gloucester county times" there on the scene in clayton, carly romalino. carly, how was her body found, how was it discovered in the recycling bin? >> so far there have been very few details released about how and where she was found. we do know she was in a recycling bin near an abandoned house. so far we're waiting for autopsy

results and we're also waiting for any more details related to how she was actually placed in the bin and how work crews came to discover her. >> what that is telling me, carly romalino, is that her body is intact, that they're able to perform an autopsy on it. they probably already know the cause of death and i would be willing to put money on it that it is going to be some sort of asphyxiation. joining me right now in addition to carly romalino there on the scene, a special guest joining me, sheriff grady judd, joining me out of polk county. sheriff, thank you for being with us. >> nancy, it is my honor to be with you this evening. >> sheriff, you have handled so many investigations. my question is the fact that this body has been put in this recycling container, rolled out to the street, that's pretty bold, sheriff.

what does that tell you? >> well, nancy, what it tells us is that he wanted to -- he or she, and most likely he wanted to get rid of this person permanently, and didn't want his fingerprints on it. we handled a similar case like this several years ago. now, you can't discount the angle of the cell phone but the police will be looking from the house outward. when you see that she lived very close to this abandoned house and then that's where they found the body, you can believe that more than likely, they will talk to the suspect within the first 24 to 72 hours of their investigation as part of just a normal interview, starting out with before she was found, have you seen this child. look for the person you already talked to, look for the person

in the neighborhood that's the weirdo, or now that we have the advent of text messaging and the cell phones, certainly they'll go into and look to see if there is a predator in the area that has groomed her and prepared her to do something that parents would never, ever, ever think that their child would do. predators have a lot of personality. they have a lot of charisma. so it is possible that someone in the area that is a predator or sexual offender has been grooming her for a period of time, but certainly you want to start with the immediate area. >> sheriff grady judd is with us from polk county. sheriff, i understand from various sources that she was still clothed. that does not rule out a sex assault. when you say being groomed, are you suggesting that when she left the home that she was going

somewhere other than to susie's house? >> well, if there was someone that was grooming her in the neighborhood or someone she had met online while texting, they very well would have come to her. so they could have come any place to her. that's why with the advent of the cell phone and the texting and the e-mailing and all the social networking through facebook, we can't just look at the neighborhood, but i can tell you, you always start with the neighborhood and then you look to see if there was any relationships developed online. i'm certain the police would do that. but you can be sure that at some point in time this person had an interaction with her maybe through school, maybe on the way to school, maybe a neighborhood guy, maybe someone unemployed that walked the streets a lot, but start at the family, work

out. find out who the friends are of the family. look to see who lives in the neighborhood. and if you can discount her cell phone, then he's definitely from a quarter mile, five block, ten blocks from the area. if the cell phone plays in it, he could have come from any place. we just worked a case here where people from england came here on vacation, and a guy from mississippi drove from mississippi to polk county, florida, which is next to disney world and grabbed a girl. and we were able to successfully get her back alive. but i can tell you someone could have come from 100, 200, 300 miles away if he were grouping her online and then she said hey, there is a place where no one lives two blocks away. >> right. >> where we can talk. >> right now joining me in addition to sheriff judd is a

neighbor of autumn's family who at this hour does not want to be identified. thank you for being with us. >> my pleasure, but not a real pleasure. >> i know what you mean. sir, how is the neighborhood taking this and what can you tell us about autumn and her family? >> the direct neighborhood, we keep a close watch on this one street here, high street, west high street, and you know, anybody that comes up and down this block we normally, you know, if they don't belong here, you know, we are wondering what are you doing here. >> you would notice them. >> yeah, immediately, right. and we recently had a couple of teenagers walking up and down the street that didn't belong here.

and the police were notified, not by me but by another neighbor. so the neighborhood's watched well. you know, this is a horrible thing. >> what does this say to you. with me is a neighbor of autumn's and her family's that she was stuffed in this recycling bin and put out with all the other recycling bins on recycling day. >> horrible. i literally when i heard that this morning, i was literally sick to my stomach. it's very upsetting. >> what do you know about that abandoned house, sir? are you familiar with it? >> i know where it is. about it being abandoned, i'm not sure all about that. i know that they were on vine street in clayton talking to some i guess teenage youth. >> right.

the ones that swiped bicycles? >> apparently, yeah. >> you know, ellie, what more can you tell us about that? >> well, nancy, i'm not sure those are the same teenagers that autumn's neighbor is talking about. it is our understanding that the teens who were swiping the bicycles, they were on a different street. but it does sound like they have talked to everybody in the neighborhood who may have seen something with regards to something with regards to this is the first leg of our world challenge with the cadillac ats. this is actually starting to feel real now. [ ross ] this is the perfect place to test the ats's advanced aerodynamics. [ derek ] we've got crosswinds, tailwinds, headwinds. aerodynamics is all about keeping the car planted on the road. you are going to get hit by stuff, so don't freak out. [ screaming with excitement ] and move out now. ♪ [ male announcer ] the all-new cadillac ats. ♪ another holiday stuck at the kids table again.

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over the course of this investigation which started saturday evening, we were able to, through the combined efforts

of law enforcement as well as the information provided by the mother which developed additional information led members of the gloucester county prosecutor's office to the location where the body was found. >> we are taking your calls, but unleash the lawyers. joining me, paul henderson, veteran prosecutor, san francisco, darryl cohen, defense attorney, atlanta. joining us, veteran defense attorney in multiple jurisdictions from atlanta, renee rockwell. renee, a lot of people would jump on the teenage boys. they had her bike in the basement or the garage. we know she was last seen on the bike, but i'm not totally convinced on that. and i'll tell you why. if they swipe bikes, they could easily have just swiped her bike after she was abducted from her bike. >> from the killer, swiping the bike from the killer. but imagine this, nancy,

everybody is a suspect, nobody is a suspect. these officers are going to talk to everybody that will talk to them and then they'll circle back around and see if anybody's stories are changing. they're looking in the house, the body is outside, the bike is inside, dna everywhere, nancy. no stone unturned. >> i am very intrigued by not only -- i mean, you can't ignore the bike found in their garage, okay. the girl disappears on a bike, the bike is in their garage. it's in the neighborhood. the body is essentially in the neighborhood. it's within a five-mile radius. it had to be a neighborhood person i think that would know to put the body in that recycle bin and the day the recycle bins go out. that abandoned house didn't have a recycle bin attached to it. all right? so what i am saying, yes, you have to investigate them, but to me, i don't know that this sounds like a teen crime. >> well, nancy, i don't know that it sounds like a teen crime.

it sounds like a horrendous crime. but there is one thing we have to keep in mind, or actually two. the text message, "don't be like that." and two, this is something that was done at the last second. whoever did it, however many people did it, they threw her body into this recycling bin because they didn't have the time or take the time or have the patience to hide it. >> that's a good observation. a very good observation. >> yeah. so what we're looking at is we're looking at something quick and i don't know that these kids did it. i hope they didn't. but it makes sense to me that it was somebody in the neighborhood or some bodies in the neighborhood. >> well, frankly, you know, i was giving them a break. but now that i'm thinking about the disposal of the body, it's very hasty, it's very amateurish. i said five miles. it's actually five blocks from the home where this was found. so i can tell you this, paul henderson, you're a veteran prosecutor, if you have more than one juvenile you're questioning simply, somebody is

going to crack if they're involved. >> they are. there are two things cops want the know from them. either they were involved or weren't. even if they were not involved directly in the incident, in the homicide, they may know something or have information about how they came upon that bike that they took anyway. they may have seen something that. >> may have heard something. there may have been clues around there that have been moved when they were there. but if they were involved, and you know as i do as a prosecutor, there are so many cases where you see thefts that wrap up and turn into something they didn't intend to happen. and that would be a real tragedy as well. >> let's keep the lawyers going, rockwell, henderson. let's bring in dave mack, morning tack show host, clear channel. dave mack, if this is hasty disposal of the body which it sounds like, i agree with him on this, there's got to be fingerprints, dave. there's got to be fingerprints, dave mack. >> there's all kinds of evidence, actually. nancy, you brought up something

earlier in the program. this is a familiarity area, too, they knew when the recycling bins needed to be on the street. this is right next door to where the recycling bin was in front of an abandoned home. the bike and other things, the detectives took other evidence out of their home as well as a couple of the boys. >> renee, cohen, paul, we all handled juvenile cases. you know, renee, if you put one brother in one room, and one brother in the next room, and i'm not saying they are responsible. i'm not convinced of that because they had a reputation of swiping bicycles. that may be their only involvement. but if you have two juveniles with no history with the criminal justice system and get veteran detectives questioning them, somebody is going to give. >> somebody will give. and nancy, they might not be involved, but somebody knows something. i don't spend money

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it's an ongoing investigation. we're still gathering all the information with respect to what happened. we're strongly considering waiving them to adult, however, we want the process to take its par. >> seth meyers, clinical psychologist. weigh in, seth. >> well, you know, this story really strikes me as sadism pure and simple. the person who did this got intense gratification from having their way with her, causing her harm and then disposing of her body. it's also consistent with anti-social personality where we see that to the anti-social person, people are objects, objects to just be discarded. >> back to the lawyers. henderson, rockwell, cohen. i'm focusing back on these teen boys. at first i was thrown off of them because i know that some of them liked -- apparently liked

to swipe bicycles, but this would be, what, they swipe her bike and then some unknown person comes and grabs her and kills her, rockwell? >> no, what i'm saying, nancy, is maybe somebody planned on meeting her somewhere and carried her off in a car and the bike is sitting there on the street. >> cohen? >> yes. i think that the autopsy is going to be just paramount, nancy. we'll have to see whether or not there was sex, and i think that's what we'll have to look at. >> anderson, agreed? >> i think that's going to be important. what i think is going to be telling is the conversation and the interviews that they're going to have separately with investigators right now to see if their story is consistent, what information they have about how they came upon the bike, and i wouldn't rule anything out at this point. >> rachel, social media. what's happening. >> the most talked about in this is if there are other abductions, two, three, four,