sold during the month of >> "here and now," the program featuring the news and interests of the african-american community. here's your host, sandra bookman. >> coming up, are you an enalber? a former judge tells how helping a relative landed her in prison and forced her to break the cycle of codependency. also, just how prepared are you? the importance of knowing your zone -- the six hurricane-evacuation areas in new york city. later, the abstract metal artwork of jordan baker-caldwell. but first today, hip-hop public health -- it's an educational program that's using hip-hop music to teach kids lifesaving messages, like the importance of exercise and how to identify strokes. also, it is empowering them to influence their parents' health decisions. in the studio today, dr. olajide williams -- he is the chief of staff of

neurology at columbia university and the founder of hip-hop public health -- daniela font, a member of hip-hop health student advisory board, and justin williams, a hip-hop hero. thank you all for being with us this afternoon. we're gonna start with you, dr. williams, because i know this was your brainchild. what made you think that hip-hop music and teaching health would be a good and effective combination? >> so, you know, we believe that, often, resistance to positive change in behavior, especially among children, is often rooted in resistance to the message and/or the messenger. we also believe that credibility is the cornerstone of

these pillars of health communication, from our perspective, we decided that we were gonna focus on developing a program that strengthens the message component, hence our student advisory board, and also have the right messenger for the youth, hence hip-hop music and all its tenets that we incorporate into the program. >> yeah, and it's something that their mind and eyes are already open to and already ingesting, so to speak. >> exactly. yes. so, we're just piggybacking on a cultural phenomenon, something that's already part of our youth's staple diet in many urban communities -- in fact, world. >> mm-hmm. and you are sort of focused -- i know you've got sort of five curriculums in place. in fact, why don't you walk through those with us and tell us why, particularly even the age group you deal with,

you know, why getting these particular programs out to this age group can be a factor. >> so, you know, i'm a physician, and i've been practicing now since 1994. >> mm-hmm. >> and, you know, a lot of my practice initially was at harlem hospital. and then i began practicing at columbia, and now i spend time at both campuses, although my primary practice is at columbia. and one of the things i realized very early on is that it's critical for us to begin early. our prevention efforts have to begin early. and i also think it's very important for us physicians and those who treat disease within the four walls of our hospitals to try to do more work in the prevention space. and that requires traversing our walls, going in to the community, and tackling those

and it's quite intimidating. i honestly tell you it's more intimidating to go out into the community and try to fight disease than deal with someone with multiple gunshot wounds in the emergency room. and so we wanted to focus on children. we wanted to start early. we wanted to begin weaving those healthy habits, weaving those lifesaving skills into kids and, through children, reverse the public-health paradigm which visualizes health communication from parents to children. but we wanted to take children and reverse that paradigm and transfer health to their parents. >> mm. and i know -- i'm gonna run down the programs, 'cause we've got a short amount of time. hip-hop stroke, hip-hop feet, which is exercise, hip-hop pop, pouring on the pounds -- i need to be listening to hip-hop pop -- hip-hop heels, which is a calorie-centered education program, and the old-school senior dementia literacy.

people at this age about, you know, how to -- i suppose how to recognize, how to communicate with, older adults. >> yes. yes. you know, dementia is a very, very serious disease and often one that's underrecognized and one that, you know, leaves people mystified by how to act and how to relate, and we believe that a lot of grandparents hang out and spend a lot of time with their young children, and it's important for us to empower the children to handle that situation. >> and, justin, in particular, i want to ask you about the hip-hop stroke, because i understand that you had just really gone through this lesson, and you recognized the signs of stroke in your own grandmother? >> yeah. >> what did you see that made you say to your mom, "i think she's having a stroke"? >> well, my grandma -- she was holding her head, and she was crying, and she could hardly speak. >> and all those were things that you had learned in this

lesson? >> yeah. >> and you told your mom, and at first, she didn't believe you, but she called 911, didn't she? >> yeah. >> and how did it make you feel, that something you just learned actually helped you save your grandmother's life? >> it felt, like, exciting. >> yeah, and made that lesson worthwhile, i guess. and i know that, daniela, you sit on the advisory board. >> yes. >> so, you help folks at the hip-hop public health know what things other students want to see and hear and whether or not it's actually a strong message and whether or not you're getting the message? >> yeah. we, um, help them sort of tailor it to kids a little bit more, especially in this age, where the kids are ever-changing. >> and what do you think about that work? do you feel like it's really important? when you're sitting there,

deciding, you understand why it could change and maybe even save somebody's life? >> it's really exciting to know that some work that you did and an experience that you're having is actually really... working. >> yeah, making a difference. yeah. it's not sort of going out there in a black hole. and how does it make you feel, dr. williams, that this brainchild of yours -- it was a pretty smart idea and an effective idea. >> well, i just want to begin by saying that it takes a team. and while, you know, i get a lot of the credit for this program, you can see that folks like daniela, folks like justin, and folks like the entire board of hip-hop public health, as well as all our offices, work night and day to put these programs together.

been a complete team effort. >> and doug e. fresh was on the show... >> yes. >> ...a week or so ago, and he talked about the program. we talked a little about the success of it, the use of the music, and how proud he was of being a part of this. >> yes. doug e. -- honestly, he's been with me since the very beginning. we've worked on a lot of the music together. he helped recruit other artists into the organization. and it's been incredibly -- you know, this is the 10th year of hip-hop stroke, and it's been incredibly gratifying. when i hear stories of children saving lives -- you know, we have justin here with us, but there have been several other children that have saved lives -- when i hear stories of children changing their behaviors or i hear parents telling us the impact that their children are having on their own personal choices, it's incredibly rewarding. it's -- to me, it's just a privilege and an honor to be able to do this work.

honor for us to have you all on the show. dr. williams, daniela, justin, thank you so much for being with us. we're gonna send folks to your websites, hhph.org, as well as hiphoppublichealth.org. there's a website for the young people, a website for adults, and you've got a big fundraiser coming up on the 17th of this month, so in a week -- this thursday. >> yes, we have the fundraiser on the 17th. it's gonna be very, very exciting. we're gonna be honoring a lot of our artists that participate. doug e.'s gonna be there. jordin sparks is gonna be there. >> and can we find some of this information on your website? >> the information is on hhph.org. please support us. we want you to come join us. purchase tickets and come celebrate with us. it's gonna be inspiring and incredibly uplifting and gratifying experience. >> all right. best of luck to you all. hope you have a great fundraiser, and i suspect we will see you again. >> thank you so much. >> thank you all. still to come on "here and now," the importance of knowing your

season. i'm michael douglas, and new york is my home. there's no place like it in the world. and there's no time to see it like the fall. take metro north to take in the beautiful fall foliage from high above the hudson. swing a club at one of america's greatest courses... see spectacular sights underground... ...or thrilling sights above it. there's so many incredible ways to experience the fun of fall in new york state.

there's something for everyone. [excited yelling] ah, yes! you can't stop it! aww...your mom liked my post. you're friends with my mother? whoa. another episode? definitely. we all use it differently. so why should we get it all the same way? call time warner cable to get the internet speed you need. are you guys texting each other? whether it's 3 megs or 300 megs, yeah. for the right price. from $14.99 everyday low price internet, to 300 meg ultra-fast internet, we have you covered. even with wifi at home and on the go. plans start at $14.99 per month. call 1-855-want twc to switch today. time warner cable. >> we learned some difficult but valuable lessons from superstorm sandy, and chief among them, the importance of knowing your zone -- the six hurricane-evacuation zones. just how prepared are you? joining us today from new york city's office of emergency management, omar bourne. thank you so much for being with us this afternoon. "know your zone" -- that is your public-service awareness campaign.

what is that campaign telling people? >> so, the city is broken down - we've broken down the city into six hurricane-evacuation zones. when you look at new york city, we have about 8.5 million people who live here, and, interestingly enough, we have about 3 million people who live in these six hurricane-evacuation zones. i guarantee if you go outside and ask anyone, "do you know what hurricane-evacuation zone you live in?" a lot of people don't know. so, what we want to do at the city -- we want to let people know what zone they live in. we have six zones, as i said, and they're broken down from zone 1 through zone 6, with zone 1 being the most at risk for flooding during a hurricane or coastal storm, zone 6 being the least at risk. so, we want people to be aware of their zone so that in the event that the city orders you to evacuate, you are aware of where your zone is. >> and you know why you need to move. >> and you know why. >> and, of course, with sandy,

there were some places that weren't necessarily in zone 1, but they certainly looked like zone 1... >> exactly. >> ...you know, after that storm, so that is information you really need to have at hand. now, once you know your zone, what's the next thing you do on the way to being prepared? >> well, we want people also to make a plan, and it's very easy to know your zone, and you can call 311, give them your address, and they'll tell you whether or not you live in a zone, or you can go to our website, www.nyc.gov/knowyourzone, and that'll let you know where your zone, but we also want people to make a plan, and this is extremely important. now that you know your zone, you also want to know where your hurricane-evacuation centers are, and the city has 64 hurricane-evacuation centers throughout the five boroughs, and we want you to become familiar with those. and a part of making a plan means that we want you to know where the evacuation centers are, but we want you to think

so, we want you to stay with family or friends who may live outside of a hurricane-evacuation zone. but if you don't have that option, then we have those evacuation centers that we'll open up, and you want to know where is the closest one to you. >> okay. and, you know, we hear a lot about that "go" bag. >> yes. >> tell us how important that is and what needs to go in it. >> so, the "go" bag should probably be the most important bag or asset that you have in your home, and here's why. a lot of people don't realize, but with a "go" bag, you need to have your important documents readily available, and so we want you to have copies of your social security card, your i.d. card. we also want you to have a light snack, some toiletries in place, because if you have to leave your home at a moment's notice, that "go" bag is there.

have everything prepared, and you're ready to go. it's literally a bag for when you have to be on the go. >> and i would say with the "go" bag, it doesn't have to be even a huge emergency, like you're flooded out. it could be, "look, something happened on the block. there was a crane collapse," which we've seen, and you're out of your house for several days. you don't have your documents -- i mean, not that you need a passport, necessarily, but there are other important papers that you might need, whether it's copies of credit cards or anything, that you can't get to, but if you grab that bag and those things are in there, you're ready to go. >> exactly, and we tell people you want to make sure that you have your medical information is there -- in there, as well. >> and extra medication? >> and extra medication, and it's important -- this is not one bag per family. this is one bag per person. so, even if you have a pet, the pet should have a "go" bag, as well. >> the things that you're gonna need to take care of a pet. >> exactly. >> there's also a suggestion that you have a stay-at-home bag, as well.

>> yes. so, in the event that there is winter weather or a storm and you have to shelter in place, we like to call it, you have to stay at home for a significant period of time, we want you to be prepared for that, as well. so, you want to have extra food in the house. you want to have extra water -- those things that you still feel comfortable with having so that you're prepared in case you have to stay at home. i know we're in new york city and everyone loves to run to the corner store, but that's not always necessarily an option, so we want people to be aware of that and be prepared, as well. >> and something as simple as you packed plenty of canned goods but you've got no can openers. >> exactly. >> and if all you have at home is an electric can opener, you actually need something else. >> exactly. >> how receptive -- i mean, like, i mentioned the sandy. we've had other instances where people in the city have been out of their homes for extended periods of time. so, you know, i feel like, you know, we should really take getting that "go" bag, having a communication plan, all those

things, seriously. but how do you find -- how receptive are people? and do you find that many people still don't think it doesn't have anything to do with them until it does? >> well, and the thing is i think we're all creatures of habit, and so until something happens, we kind of -- we don't >> mm-hmm. >> but we've been out -- our office has been out -- we have mobile office hours. we've been out to all five boroughs. we've teamed up with council member vanessa gibson and council member phil goldfeder in rockaway, and people are actually really receptive. the first question they ask -- "oh, is something happening? is a storm imminent?" and we're telling them, "no, but we're out here because we want to get you prepared. we want to get you and your family talking about this so that, in the event that something does happen, you know what you're going to do." >> and give me that website one more time. they can go and find out all of this information.

nyc.gov/knowyourzone, and it'll have all the information there for you. >> and we probably should mention that we are in the midst of hurricane season. it kind of runs through early november here? >> yeah. so, hurricane season -- june 1st through november 30th. august we like to call the unofficial start of hurricane season for new york city. that's when things start to kind of get ramped up. and so we want people to be definitely aware of their zone. go out there, find out which zone you live in, and be prepared. >> all right. >> we want you to be prepared before the emergency. >> thank you so much, valuable information. >> thank you for having me. >> thanks for coming by. up next, how a stint in prison forced a former judge to face her history of codependency and

>> it's a vicious cycle that all too many people find themselves stuck in, trying repeatedly to help someone who continues on the same self-destructive path, leaving you drained and stressed. well, our next guest takes on the issue in her new book, "breaking codependency." a former attorney and judge reveals how helping a relative landed her in prison but gave her a new understanding of how to stop being an enabler. here this afternoon, dr. lesly devereaux. >> hi. >> so nice to meet you. >> nice meeting you. >> this book... really makes you stop and think, because i think a lot of people will recognize themselves in the

story, where you really are, you know, pedaling as hard as you can to help somebody else, and the next thing you know, you've certainly gotten lost -- gotten lost in this. what made you write this book? i mean, you went through an ordeal. just reading the pages early on about finding yourself heading into prison -- >> yes. >> it was chilling. really. >> and it served a purpose. i'm happy to hear you say that, because the book is doing exactly what i felt i wanted it to do -- was not just to heal me but to help other people. so, the book really was written as a result -- i wrote it as a result -- i was trying to find myself, so self-discovery, healing, and redemption. and then, while i was incarcerated and after i came back, i started hearing other women's stories, and i was sharing with them what i was gonna do with the book, and they said, "that sounds like me." and so the book quickly became a

and provided resources to other people who found themselves kind of trapped in that web of enabling. and how i define "enabling" is a person who reinforces negative behavior in another person rescue conduct. >> mm-hmm. >> so, we're trying to be a messiah, you know? we're trying to be all things to all people, and, ultimately, it's to our detriment. >> okay. >> and that is what happened with me. >> now, i have to ask you, because we've got to fill the audience in a little bit here -- you were working, the department of commerce. >> yes, in new jersey. >> and what was it you were charged with? prison. >> right. >> you were convicted and spent 10 months in prison. what were you convicted of, and what were you charged of? >> i was convicted of official misconduct, because whenever there's misconduct in the capacity of your position and you're a public official, that's the charge.

and, unfortunately, that was the charge that sent me away, because it's a statutory situation, and it's mandatory prison time. the underlying accounts were misapplication of public property, some of them very minor, like a third degree. but that really wasn't the issue, i mean, for me, because, like i said, the book was about self-discovery. i had to take responsibility and really dig deep in myself to see how i landed myself in the situation. how did i get here? and so i just started really self-reflecting on my behavior, my characteristics, what i meant to other people, what other people meant to me, and it wasn't really just about family. >> mm-hmm. >> it was about me giving so much of myself to everyone. >> and i know you do not want to relive this, and we're not gonna walk -- 'cause we ain't got that much time. >> [ laughs ] >> but because we're talking about you really attempting to help family, and what i can understand is that you gave jobs

>> ...to people that you were related to. >> yes. >> they were doing the work. >> yes. >> but the manner in which the jobs and contracts were handed out is what raised the questions. is that correct? >> that is correct. and that's what raised the questions, and that's where the trouble came. so, i say poor judgment. i say poor choice. however, it wasn't the contracts that were illegal. it was just how i handled the situation. so, what i did is just totally tried to turn that situation around and said that, "i have to turn this mess into my message." >> yeah, 'cause, essentially, you lost everything. you didn't lose your loved ones and your real friends, but you lost -- you were an attorney. >> yes. >> you spent a lot of years -- >> yes. >> a lot of years in school, earning those degrees. >> yes. >> you were successful. you were well respected. you found yourself, really, in the bottom of a pit. >> that's right. >> and...just really depending on your faith and examining why

you were doing what you were doing led you to this book. >> that's right. >> and you say you found that you were basically codependent... >> right. >> ...and enabling... >> that's right. >> ...family members, your sisters, and, i'm assuming, some friends. >> some friends. that's right. >> and so what i decided to do -- i looked at all of that, but i had to make a choice. i had to decide whether i was gonna take this failure and i was gonna fail flat or i was gonna fail forward. >> yeah. i like that. >> so, failing flat means, you know, living with that shame, that hurt, that guilt, that pain, embarrassment about everything that happened, or fail forward, which was to learn from what happened, pick myself up, and to try to use my message to help other people who may not necessarily find themselves in the same exact situation, because i've met many people who have said, "oh, this reminds me of me," but they were talking about dealing with a daughter or dealing with a mate or dealing with someone on their job, where

they just felt like they couldn't say no. but they were really hurting the >> mm-hmm. and you really have written this as a kind of workbook. >> yes. at the end of each chapter, i have reflection exercises, and i really ask people to spend time reading each chapter. don't rush through the book. but after each chapter, take a moment, pause, do the reflection questions, and see if any of that relates to you. now, that doesn't necessarily mean that you are an enabler. however, there might be some things that give you pause in some areas that you might decide, "i want to just take a step back." i talk about the awakening in the book and i talk about when there really was an awakening and what i thought would help me and help other people. i talk about boundaries... >> mm-hmm. >> ...and that we all have to have those healthy boundaries, you know? we have to have that little square that people can't get in if it's gonna affect us. we also have to be able to say no and understand that "no" is a complete sentence. >> yeah. yeah. >> yeah? when i say, "no," i mean, "no."

for you. >> and it may be the best thing for you. and we also have to have that self-care. we have to care about ourselves first, 'cause if we don't, then that's usually what happens when we're not thinking about who we are. and then we also have to sometimes distance ourselves, you know? we have to say, "okay, i need to, like, move you out of my space 'cause you're not good for me." >> all right. thank you so much, dr. lesly devereaux. "breaking codependency" -- i suggest that people read this book because they will recognize some aspects of their own lives in it. >> thank you so, so much.

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lets me watch tv whenever i have the time. for $89.99 a month you'll get tv, internet and phone. and if you call now, there's no risk, no contract, no catch, no kidding. i switched to time warner cable and knew exactly when they were coming. thanks to their one hour appointment window. switch to time warner cable today. and ask how you could get a $300 reward card. call today. >> are black women under extra pressure because of society's perceptions and stereotypes? "the sisters are alright: changing the broken narrative of black women" explores how african-american women deal with the social prejudices directed at them. here today, author

tamara winfrey harris. so nice to meet you. >> thank you. thank you for having me. >> thank you for joining us on the show. this book...is a lot of food for thought. >> good. >> why did you feel it was important to put these thoughts on paper? >> you know, firstly, because i am a black woman, and i am tired of the way society talks about women like me. and, initially, when i was thinking about writing a book, i was motivated by all the talk a few years ago about the "black marriage crisis." >> mm-hmm. >> everybody was talking about how, you know, what on earth black women must be doing wrong to remain so often unchosen. but as i researched that issue, i realized that some of the same biases that underpin that issue underpin a whole bunch of issues with black women -- health and motherhood and marriage and sex. so, i wanted the book to be broader and look at some of those things. >> and as i read it, i said to

lot of people, women, almost start thinking of as it's not fact, it's almost part of their dna. >> mm-hmm. >> and...reading through your book, you start to examine, "well, why is it that i started looking at that way to begin with? my thinking from the beginning has been flawed." >> yes! >> you know, so, why do you think so much of this is passed down from mother to daughter, from friend to friend, from -- what happened? >> because the stereotypes that are part of our history -- many of them began in slavery. sapphire, jezebel, the matriarch, the mammy -- those are really sticky stereotypes. we think we left them 100 years ago, but we really didn't. they've evolved over time. and, you know, you and i -- we grow up in a society, so it's very hard for us, even, to not absorb those same stereotypes. >> and when you talk about --

let's talk a little specifically when we talk about stereotypes. you know, what are the ones -- and i know that i've fallen victim to or victim -- maybe i've been responsible for myself -- is the myth of the strong black woman, the superwoman, that you can handle anything. you don't need the assistance. "i got it," no matter how bad it is. >> yes. >> and while it's not necessarily unhealthy to be independent, it is not necessarily to believe that it's your lot in life to always be suffering but have to bear it all. >> it's great to be strong, but we're human, right? so, we're not indestructible. and the strong black woman myth kind of comes out of the sapphire stereotype, sort of this view of black women as uniquely tough and strong and angry and aggressive. and so there's a good part of that -- a lot of it inspires us, like, "we can do it!" -- but then there's a bad part of that. think of how hard or, you know, how hard people are working to just get people to say the names

of women who have been victims of police violence. so, part of it also means that people don't think we need care as much because we're these strong women. >> and i think a lot of times we don't think we need care as much. >> exactly. >> you also talk a lot in the book about how black women are viewed sexually. you know, even breaking it down to how people will look at the same performance that beyonc\ gives compared to madonna. it's essentially the same performance, different period in time, different women, but, for some reason, they view it differently. talk to me a little bit about that. >> that comes from the jezebel myth, so this myth that black women are hypersexual. and that kind of came out need during slavery. you know, we were used to breed new human property. you know, we were raped. you would stand naked on an auction block. so, there was no way black women could be viewed as chaste and virginal, as, you know, "real women" at the time, which meant

>> essentially, they were just being victimized. >> exactly. so, you know, that idea of us as hypersexual has moved forward, and so we're still viewed that way. and, actually, some women also said it's an albatross in two ways. one, they're hypersexualized, but, two, they're always told they can't explore their own sexuality because they're too busy trying not to be a jezebel. so, if all you're doing is trying not to be a jezebel, then you can't have any fun. >> you're conflicted. >> you're conflicted. [ both laugh ] >> why is it important for us -- not just us as women -- to confront the stereotypes and to change that narrative, but why is it important to push other people to change the narrative, not to allow them to sort of write the story for you? >> because stereotypes affect the way other people see us. it affects the way employers see us, the government sees us, potential partners see us, and

people can't view you as human if you have this very narrow, stereotypical way of looking at you. we should be allowed the complexity of being human. so, to see us through the lens of stereotype is really not seeing our humanity, which is a terrible, terrible thing. >> now, when you talked to -- you talked to lots of women in your book. >> yes. >> what did you hear from them about themselves? >> well, i heard a few things. i heard that they realize that people have a negative view of black women as a whole and they think, unfortunately, when they walk in a room, that view precedes them, and they feel that they have to spend a lot of time -- some of them said, "it's exhausting. i have to spend a lot of time reacting to what i suspect someone is thinking." but, on the whole, they agreed with the title of the book. they said, "i'm all right. at the end of the day, i know who i am, and it's hard, but i'm happy being a black woman." >> mm-hmm, and to say you're all

aren't things you want to work on or things that you want to change yourself because it's important to who you are, but it means, "i'm just living my life." >> exactly. doesn't mean black women don't have problems or challenges. we certainly do, many of them driven by racism and sexism. but it means, fundamentally, we are not our problems. we are humans, and we are okay. >> i think i've skipped over something that is, you know, you can't walk in the door and not know you and i are both brown-skinned women. >> mm-hmm. >> there still seems to be this conversation surrounding, "well, what is pretty compared to more eurocentric?" i think a lot of black women still deal with that -- not only with their skin tone, with the texture of their hair. you know, how do you almost turn a deaf ear to that conversation and still be able to look at yourself in the mirror and accept yourself on your terms but i guess, in a way, push

society to do the same? >> it's hard. so, you have to learn to affirm yourself. and one thing -- as i've been on this book tour, i've been talking to several women, and something came up that i think is very important. other. you know, one woman said, "if i see a woman walking down the street and she's looking good, i say, 'you look good, girl,'" because she may not have heard that all day. we assume that we hear that, but we really don't, and so much we see actually negates the idea that we would feel good about ourselves. so, we need to do that for ourselves and for each other. >> so, i have to ask you -- you wrote this book and you're speaking to, you know, the sisters, so to speak. what does writing this, putting this down, and hearing from other women and airing this -- what does it do for you? >> you know, i told people that even if no one bought this book, although i hope they do... [ both laugh ] ...i feel like writing this book, meeting all of these

because i feel like i've been seen and i feel like i'm hearing my voice spoken back to me, so it's a great way not to feel alone. i feel the power of the sisterhood more than ever now, and it's a pretty awesome place to be. >> yeah, and you've spent a career writing about where gender and race intersect. so, if you want to look at more of your readings and writings, you can go to... >> yes. >> and the book is "the sisters are alright: changing the broken narrative of black women in america." >> yes. >> thank you so much for talking with us today. >> thank you so much. >> and best of luck.

>> jordan baker-caldwell is a new york-born artist and metal sculptor. he describes his works as a mixture of figurative, organic

forms juxtaposed against modern, neo-cubic abstractions. well, this afternoon, jordan is here to tell us how it is that he combines found and fabricated objects to create his works of art. so nice to meet you, jordan. >> nice to meet you, too. >> when did you realize that you had this talent, this skill? >> well, i was lucky enough to have a mother who was very, very creative, so i kind of found this ability to make things at a young age and didn't have, necessarily, the know-how to know what to do with that creativity, so, i think at a very young age, my mom realized she needed to give me things to work with other than just the materials that were around the house that i'd just duct-tape together and so forth. so, i think maybe when i was about 6 or 7, i started to make things out of clay, and that kind of evolved into making things out of wood and then, now, making things out of metal. >> and what is it about metal that really attracts you and

>> you know, at first, i wasn't sure what it was, because i just -- i was originally drawn to clay and to wood more, but there's something about the stern and calm quality of metal, and also the fact that, to me, it also has a kind of a similar quality to wood, where you can shave, you can smooth, you can sand. you can also shape it in a really interesting way. but, also, once you do that, it has its own structure that allows it to be able to stand by itself without needing supports. >> mm-hmm. staying power, so, you can really express your -- now, one of the reasons we really wanted to have you on is because you have a huge piece that is going to be permanent on the west side of manhattan, the hudson yards. ascension is what you call the piece. tell us about it. it's going on the corner of -- it's gonna go on the corner of 36th and 9th, right? >> yes. mm-hmm. >> so, tell us about

ascension -- how this came about. >> so, ascension -- the actual piece -- came from a dream that i had years ago, where i saw this certain shape and certain form, didn't really know what to do with it, but then i woke up, forgot about it, and then went about my day, making other different pieces. and then one day, i just made this -- this form that, to me, spoke to some kind of -- i don't want to say an otherworldliness, but it just felt to me as if i needed to produce this piece a certain way, and i went with that -- that...vibe. and i made the original ascension, which is about 5 feet tall. >> mm-hmm. >> so, this project that came about, this new ascension project, is inspired by that project. it's a much larger version of this piece. >> 9 feet... >> 9 feet tall. >> ...it's gonna be, and, like we said, it's gonna be permanent. >> it's gonna be permanent, yes. >> and one of the things i've read that you've said about it is it is definitely a conversation-starter.

>> yes. >> what about it, you think, is going to really appeal to people and make them have to stop and take a second look? >> well, to me, the piece itself is like a very large, tubular shape that appears to be balancing on its edge, so when you see the form just from someone walking on the street, walking by and seeing it, you question how it's able to stand, because it looks like something larger than it should be able to be s-- something larger than should be able to stand is resting on its edge, as if it's permanently balanced. so, just from that point by itself, i think you question what this object is, what brought it here, how is it able to rest in this precarious -- seemingly precarious -- state and also to form itself seems to -- seems as if the pieces that are making it up are breaking apart or rising into the air. >> why was ascension chosen to be placed on that corner? >> oh, it was through my

who were organizing the neighborhood, working with the hudson yards. hell's kitchen has a new arts alliance, and, basically, i proposed this piece to be on that corner, and they -- >> and they liked it? >> yeah. and you had a kickstarter the piece. how much money did you raise? >> so, i was lucky enough to raise $20,000, thanks to so many amazing people -- my family and friends -- who just came out and really supported me, and, yeah. >> and what does it mean to an artist -- you're in your hometown, born and raised here, we said -- to know that -- you're pretty young -- to know that, you know, this work is going to be displayed for people to look at for, hopefully, generations? >> it is unbelievable. it still feels almost like a dream to me to have the chance to have a piece become a permanent part of the city, especially because i love new york city so much. i've been a part of it, it's been a part of me, for so much of my life.

and i think that so much of the things that i create and even the sensibilities that i have about my work come from the city, so to have a piece in manhattan, in the city, is a dream. >> really, for an artist your age. look, before we go, you were so kind to bring some of your other pieces here to show us today, and one of them you brought in -- it was the heaviest. >> yeah. >> i mean, the guys were having a hard time. they were afraid it might even break the table. john henry -- tell us about that piece. >> so, john henry is a piece. he looks as if he's like a human form leaning forward, and his head is a hammer. so, that piece was inspired by the story of john henry, but, also, it has -- how do i put it? -- it touches on some contemporary themes dealing with race and with ideas of -- of -- how would i put it? -- of how we look at each other in terms of

>> and that piece itself really is about trying to consider the ways in which we look at particularly race in america. >> and this one is called currents, the one sitting on the table. and tell me, what was the inspiration? it looks like a face. >> yes. yes. >> tell us about it. >> i'm glad. yeah. it is a face. yeah. that piece is from a series that i had called "rare earth," from a show that i did two years ago, and it's one of maybe 30 pieces or so where i was trying to make faces in elements that were inspired by natural forms and by the elements themselves, so i tried to let the metal itself guide me as i made the pieces, tried not to really direct my hand or direct my thought in terms of what i was making, and produced a series of -- some of them are faces. some of them are more abstract and are shapes and forms that are kind of moving through the air. and current is one of those

came out of the metal, and then i...put it there. >> well, we are so proud of you and happy for you. >> thank you so much. >> i know it's important as an artist to see your work -- own work -- displayed publicly and to get public reaction to it. and if folks would like to see a little bit more of some of your works, jordancanfly.com? >> mm-hmm. >> okay. that's your website. and ascension is going to be put up on the west side into what will be the hudson yards neighborhood. is it later this fall? >> yes, later this fall. >> okay. all right. so nice to meet you, jordan baker-caldwell. i suspect that we're gonna hear some more from you. >> thank you. i hope so. >> all right. best of luck to you.

>> the new broadway musical "amazing grace" is the story behind the beloved song written by a slave trader who made a hour. we sat down recently with one of the musical's costars, actress

the inspirational role of nanna. >> amazing grace how sweet the sound >> i landed the part six years ago, when "amazing grace" was just a reading, and the script was about this big. [ laughs ] it was really epic. i mean, it's epic now, but it was about 400 pages of epicness. >> god saved a wretch >> it's the story behind the song. john newton was a slave trader. he wrote the song "amazing grace." he wrote over 300 spirituals. i think the title of the show sells itself. most people know the song "amazing grace," but they don't really know the story behind it. i did not grow up knowing about john newton. and he was a slave trader -- a horrific slave trader -- who gets captured in sierra leone and becomes enslaved. "i once was lost but now am found, was blind, but now i see."

so, it's the story of redemption. >> i once was lost but now am found was blind but now i see >> i play the role of nanna. she's a slave, a house slave, that lives in great britain, from sierra leone. she, um, is based off of my grandmother. she's one of the imagined characters in the show. so, i was able to craft her based on both my grandmothers. my paternal grandmother worked most of her adult life as a maid, and my maternal grandmother lived her life as a missionary. so, i was able to merge the two and create the spine of nanna. and a new day slowly begins

soon the sun is shining bright she has this moment in the show where i get to sing the song "daybreak," and it's about finding the light inside of your mist of darkness, and it's something that -- that -- that shakes me up every time i get to sing it, because i feel like i'm singing it for all the nannas of the world today. let it shi-i-i-i-ne on all the world >> and as the days of my life unwind >> and as the days unwind, distant memories haunt my mind >> distant memories haunt my mind >> i can see... >> mary is the love interest to john newton. she becomes his wife. and i play her house slave. she also becomes an abolitionist so nanna is that person behind her that's mothering her --

for me to play this slave with such dignity and bring a fullness to her life -- it's an honor. i feel like i'm kissing the feet of all my ancestors -- my grandmothers -- and all the women today that are living the li-- being the nannas today. i feel like it's important that we change the way we teach history to young people so that they leave feeling that inner strength and power from it. let it shi-i-i-i-ne on all the world i know that when i look up there and i see all those seats way in the back, in the bleachers, i know that that's where the black servants used to be, waiting on their mistresses, you know? and there are so many old theaters, historical landmarks, in new york city. and i perform that for all of

them. fears that have shaken our faith fade awa-a-a-y it's a piece of history that... is for... my family... and my community, and, um... >> amazing grace >> and i want to s-- i want to see -- i want to see them coming down into the orchestra, and we're working really hard at [laughs] diversifying the audience, but this is the time to come from the darkness, from way up top, and be seen, be in the front row. >> i once was lost but now am found

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>> thanks for spending some time with us on "here and now." if you missed any portion of today's show, you can watch at... and if you'd like to send us a comment or share your story, e-mail us at abc7ny or follow us on facebook or twitter. i'm sandra bookman. have a great day. >> and a new day slowly begins soon the sun is shining bright let it shi-i-i-i-ne on all the world the darkness will give way to day

and it's ti-i-i-me i know it's time fears that have shaken our faith