>> this is "eyewitness news upclose with diana williams." >> the attacks in paris and now enormous consequences. threats from isis, some of them regurgitated to new york city and washington. russian and french planes joining the u.s. and hitting isis targets in syria, and a move in congress to try to block syrian refugees from coming to the united states. so where in the world do we go from here? so much frightening news, so many complicated scenarios about what to do next. one person with strong opinions, new york congressman peter king. he joins us this morning. >> people of new york city will not be intimidated. >> and the nypd trying to reassure new yorkers that we have one of the best prepared cities to deal with potential

terror threats. >> we plan for the ability to handle two dozen sites simultaneously. >> so what can we expect going forward? take, for example, this week's thanksgiving day parade. we ask our security consultant, former nypd detective and counterterrorism expert nick casale. and good morning, everyone. i'm bill ritter in diana williams. the humanitarian crisis affecting millions of syrians has, like so much of our political discourse these days, turned into something about vitriolic discussion. this morning we search for calm and rational thinking. we start off with republican congressman peter king, a member of the homeland security committee and chairman of the subcommittee on counterterrorism. mr. king is in his office in massapequa park on long island. congressman, good morning. thank you for joining us. >> bill, thank you very much. >> i should say we're taping this on friday, so there might be some new developments, but we hope that it will be generic enough but specific enough so that it doesn't outweigh the news of the day. let me just start with this last weekend, the attacks on paris

and the sort of regurgitated scare, security scare, by isis, using in a video pictures of new york. anything that you know in your perch as an intelligence expert and on the committee that we should be aware of about isis and possible attacks on new york city? >> bill, as far as new york city is concerned, as far as i know, and i've been talking to people at all levels of the intelligence community, there are no credible threats against new york city right now. i believe commissioner bratton has continually said the same thing, as has the director of the fbi, james comey. there are no credible threats against new york city. we do know that isis and al-qaeda always have new york in their sights, but the nypd is the best in the world. they work closely with the fbi. they were involved with the joint terrorism task force. they have their own agents overseas. so they get firsthand intelligence, and they're as ready as anyone can be. we have to be on our guard. as far as the videos that are being put out, i think they're being done for two reasons.

people, keep this climate of fear that's there, but also they are appealing to the lone wolves, the people on the fringes of society, and they're attack. these would not be the large attacks, but they could be deadly. last year we saw the person who was inspired by isis attacking two police officers with a hatchet in jamaica, queens. that's the type of attack we have to be looking for, the person who is putting a bomb together in his basement or in his attic. so, not the large-scale attacks, coordinated attacks like we saw in paris, but the lone-wolf attacks which can be damaging obviously to anyone who's affected by it, but not the large-scale attack like paris. >> it seems at least some of this, congressman, is designed to, you know, insert fear and alter our behavior somehow, whether it's -- one friend of mine isn't gonna take her family to the thanksgiving day parade this coming week because she's scared. a school district in your district in nassau county isn't gonna have any more field trips

in manhattan in november and december because they're worried, they don't want to put their children and the school kids at risk. are we yielding to the terrorists when that happens, or are we altering our behavior in a way that's based on fear and not evidence? >> yeah, i think right now we should continue here in new york to go on with our lives. we have the best police department. i can't emphasize enough how much bill bratton and the men and women of the nypd -- they work 24/7. they have more police officers assigned to combating terrorism, and not just reacting to it, but anticipating it, anticipating what might happen, what could possibly happen. they're there, and this is as safe as any city can be, and we can't allow the terrorists to make us hide and cower. we have to be out there. and again, i'm not calling for people to put themselves at risk. i'm just saying that new york is as safe as it can be, and we live in the world, but again, unless you want to spend the rest of your life in your basement, you should go out, enjoy the city, do what the

the fbi asks you to do, and life will be good. >> there is some talk among some politicians and especially some conservatives that we should be monitoring, again, the nypd should step up its monitoring of mosques in our area, including long island, new jersey, and new york city. the nypd used to do a lot more of that. they do less of it now. what's your position on that? >> i believe we should monitor wherever we have to. and i don't think mosques should be off limits. we do know that, in the past, a number of terrorist threats have originated in mosques, and we have to follow the threats. and if they're coming from a mosque, then we have to use surveillance. to me, one of the ways you anticipate an attack and be ready for it is to have people in the community, people who are willing to inform, if you will, people who are willing to say what's happening in that community, and that has worked in the past, and i think it's essential. i see nothing wrong with it. i've always used the example -- when the fbi was going after organized crime and the mafia,

they went into the italian communities, the italian social clubs. when they were going after the westies, an irish gang, they were in all the irish bars in the west side of manhattan. they were in irish clubs, irish organizations to find out what the westies might be doing and who they were. so no, i think this is legitimate police work and we should not be giving in to political correctness. >> well, still the nypd does not think so. they don't do it anymore, at least not in new york city, but there are some other police officers and police departments across the country that do do a little bit of that, and you're calling for more of that. let's talk about some of the controversy that certainly this last week showed up in the house in a big vote, something of a defeat for president obama. you voted in the bill that would crack down on bringing refugees from muslim countries, specifically the syrian refugee crisis. what was your rationale behind your vote for passing that? >> well, this applied to syria and iraq, and my real concern is with syria because we have no way of adequately vetting who's coming into the country. there are no databases, there are no personnel records, there

have no intelligence on the ground to know who is who in syria. there's no way of knowing when a person is being questioned who they are, where they're from, what their motives are, what their connections are. this is different from other countries, and we do know that isis does want to smuggle terrorists into the countries as part of the refugee movement. so, to me, what this bill, which i thought was a very moderate bill, and 47 democrats i believe supported it, including two from long island, they supported it because what it does is says pause until we get a better system in place. the fbi director has said that they can't assure us that it's effective, that we're actually able to spot terrorists. the homeland security secretary has said the same. >> the white insists the vetting process, you know, while it always can improve, is adequate and will protect this country against terrorists trying to get in. >> i strongly disagree with the president. i strongly disagree with the white house. i've been getting briefings now for the last three months with people involved in them.

that the vetting's not adequate because there was nothing they could base it against. there are absolutely no -- there's no database, there are no records, there are no personnel files, there's nothing to know who these people are. >> and yet we've taken in less than 2,000. germany has almost 100,000 in the last three years of syrian refugees. there's clearly a humanitarian crisis going on. you know, you come from immigrants, from ireland, on both sides of your family. that's got to touch you to some degree when you see these refugees in need of aid from around the world. >> it is. it's a terrible humanitarian crisis. but my main obligation is to protect the people of the united states, and i wouldn't want to have it turn out one of those refugees that come in from syria is involved in setting off a bomb in the new york city subway station or the long island railroad. and we've already seen like in france, at least one of the eight attackers appears to have been somebody who took advantage of the refugee movement. >> one of them was, apparently came from syria posing as a refugee. quick question.

suggesting that the majority of americans want more air strikes against isis in syria and even more ground troops. 60% say they favor more ground troops. how do you view that, and what's your position on it? >> i believe, first of all, it shows that it's the belief that the current policy is not working. i do believe more bombing is necessary, more effective bombing. we have to have more spotters on the ground, more intelligence on the ground. we have to coordinate more with the french and, you know, the british, also, but especially the french 'cause they're now in syria. as far as ground troops, yes, we do need ground troops, not in large numbers like in the iraq war or the afghanistan war, but i can see up to 10,000 troops being used to gather intelligence, to coordinate with the iraqis and the kurds and also to be able to infiltrate. and also for special operations, have commando units, you know, for quick operations that are needed. also that would give confidence to the other arab nations there that we are taking it seriously and they then i believe will be much more willing to put their ground troops. that's what it really has to be

in the end -- sunni ground troops fighting sunni isis. >> okay, republican congressman pete king from long island. thanks so much, congressman. >> bill, thank you. >> all right, thank you, congressman. we go from the political angles to the law enforcement considerations. joining us now, our security consultant, nick casale, former detective with the nypd and counterterrorism expert. and he used to work in counterterrorism with the mta. nick, thanks for joining us. >> good to be here, bill. >> when you hear us talk about, you know, invading yet another muslim country, without getting into foreign policy questions with you, what, as a security expert, here does that make you feel? >> well, any time that we engage in military action we know that are enemies, and the problem is that our enemies are gonna be vast. it's gonna be more than isis. it's gonna be al-qaeda, it could be hamas, it could be hezbollah. we have to understand, they all hate us. to what degree, it doesn't really matter. we have to be prepared here to engage and to get our

total apparatus down correctly. >> nypd commissioner bratton insists -- you saw him in that really unusual news conference the other night at 11:00 at night. he insists they're prepared for all that. do you think the nypd is prepared? >> absolutely. i mean, in listening to the congressman, you brought up a good question about some people showing concerns about coming to the thanksgiving day parade. let me assure them myself. come to the parade. this should be our largest parade ever. everybody should come down. the only reason anybody wouldn't come down would be the weather. it is absolutely safe. ride the subways, come to the stores, shop, go to madison square garden, see a show. new york is safe. >> and yet you know that there are some people who are worried, understandable, perhaps, for some people, but that sort of gives in to the terrorists. >> well, you know, the terrorists want three things. they want to inflict terror on people so that the people raise up against the government and have the government change its foreign policy. also they want to keep their

the people and in the media. and there's another component is that by keeping their message out there, we've seen this in the past, whether you call them a lone wolf or an emotionally disturbed person, whatever tag you want to put on them, they're action. but they're going to continue in europe against softer targets before here. >> and i want to bring this up, because you were on our set when we were broadcasting the news and covering the breaking news of what's happening in paris. we saw it at that concert hall. we saw it in mali on friday. the u.n. security expert there said those terrorists there -- al-qaeda, whatever they were -- came not to negotiate but to kill hostages. we saw it in paris. they did not come there to negotiate in that concert hall. they took the hostages to kill them. and it's not something we want to think about, but if -- i think about it -- if all of a sudden someone comes in and you're a victim of that, does that change how you react as a hostage? >> well, you know, that's a

question that's not only a good question -- it's a question that everybody seems to be coming up to me and asking. "what if?" well, "what if" is very simple. first, if you can flee, run. before you hide, run. the further you can get away from danger, the better. second, if you can't get away from danger, you know, try to hide. and, you know, take some sort of not camouflage, but cover, in a security area. but remember this -- if faced with no to those two questions, it's an individual decision. >> it is. >> right? if you're, you know, if something's gonna happen to you, you know, it's you who has to make that decision. >> we saw that on the united flight in pennsylvania. they took over that plane because they knew they were gonna do something terrible, maybe take it to washington. so, if you can, if it comes -- you know, we don't make that decision till it happens -- but why not be brave and try to save some lives? >> you know, it's ironic because when you look at the greatest heroes in wartime, who receive

honor, you think that they would be military trained, they would be high office and stuff like that. no, the person who rallies at that call is generally a farmer from texas like audie murphy or alvin york. it's the average person who's the hero. >> nick, question no one likes to think about, but thanks for answering it. appreciate it. thanks for being with us. >> good to be on, bill. >> okay. when we come back, we're gonna switch topics. the reverend calvin butts from the abyssinian baptist church joins us. we talk to him about the police, about bill de blasio, about the closing of east harlem's first big supermarket, and a host of other important issues designed

>> welcome back to "upclose." the last time new york city was attacked -- september 11th -- one of the men who helped pull us out of that emotional whirlwind is our next guest. reverend calvin butts of abyssinian baptist church in harlem telling us at that incredible memorial service at yankee stadium two weeks after the attacks, "we'll get through this together." calvin butts joins us this morning. i looked at that tape in preparation for this interview, and you were so eloquent. and everyone in that stadium put their hands together and looked at each other and said, "we'll get through it." you could see them mouthing it. was that planned? did you write that? was it an impromptu? do you remember? >> it was impromptu. it was a culmination of what i believe and it was, at the moment, how i was feeling, and i had the opportunity to call on a lot of great words of others

i was an american, a proud one. i'm a new yorker, a proud one. and i was not about to let any terrorist or any terrorist attack sway me from my beliefs or my commitment to my country or my city. >> "we'll get through this together." i think your words echoed so profoundly, and we did get through that horrible time together. i wonder how together you think we are now. >> well, we are not as together. you know, i have said that across the years since 9/11 that oftentimes when families get together, it's at funerals and everybody's sad and everybody's remembering. but then as you go away, you know, you drift further and further apart with not only what's happening in our city and what has happened in recent months and weeks and years, but also what's happening in our world. you see people going to their various camps, separating, and it's going to take something once again dramatic and powerful

it could be the killings in france here recently. but we are not as together as we should be. >> you were here listening to congressman king. you heard nick casale talk about all the security and the fear and everything else. how much do you think is real? what do you tell your congregation on sundays about how to react to this news? >> well, i tell them to look at the 27th psalm, you know, "the terror by night, the arrow that flieth by day, trust in god and deep belief in your own strength. don't let people who are ugly and terrible sway you." i remember dr. king -- he faced terrible terror -- his home bombed, you know, his life threatened, but yet strength and faith and hope push us forward, and, you know, we shall overcome. >> let's -- well, we hope we all do. that's a good thing. that's a good phrase and thought to end this part of the

conversation. i want to move on to city politics, 'cause you're, as always, deeply embroiled in that. the last time you were on this show, you wanted to meet with mayor de blasio and said you hadn't yet. have you met with him yet since he's become mayor? >> since i was here, yes, once in gracie mansion. and we put before him then our concerns. they were two. one, we wanted officer daniel pantaleo fired because of the killing of eric garner. and two, we wanted to make sure more contracts were let with minority women business enterprises. since that meeting, or at that meeting, he said he was not going to take an employment action against pantaleo, and he said he was still committed to mwbes. there's a big rally tonight in -- well, friday night in brooklyn about mbwes. nothing -- very small percentage going to minorities and women. and daniel pantaleo is still on

the taxpayer's payroll. >> do you think that the mayor's in a slightly tough situation trying to assuage and make a detente with the nypd and maybe he might even sympathize with your position and agree with it, but he finds himself somewhat in the middle? >> bill, the new york city police department is a paramilitary force, and the mayor has to determine whether or not he's going to be "the commander-in-chief." and if he is the commander-in-chief, he can take bold action, and he would be surprised, i think, to know the number of new yorkers who are behind him. we all support the police. we can't live in this city without them. most of them are fine men and women. there are one or two here and there who are deterrent to our safety, who are absolutely not with what it takes to be a police officer in this great city, and they should be removed. >> has there been any kind of detente in the last year since

the garner case, since all the protests around the country, really, and here in new york? do you think there's been a detente with the community and the police? >> no. individually -- in individual communities, yes. but overall, in terms of what we expect, from our mayor particularly and our police commissioner, that we're saying we just -- it's just one officer. show some good faith. you ran on stop and frisk, and now you seem to have forgotten all about us. >> do you think that some of the problems, bureaucratic problems, your organization has had is because of some of the disputes you've had with the mayor? i know you've had some financial issues with the city in terms of getting paperwork in on time, withholding money. that seems to be resolved. but any political overtones to that? >> i would not like to think so, but the vast majority of people in our communities tell me that that's what it is. because prior to that, we were the premier agency in harlem.

we were doing and have commendations from the city, homelessness, childcare, workforce development, department of education, we work with the public schools. and then all of a sudden, even after the city said, "look, in. you got to get your audits in," we said "fine." we were working on that and appeared before them. but then when we appeared before them the second time with all of our stuff in order, ready to move forward, they said no. >> funding for your going forward, do you think? >> funding for the organizations are going forward as we transition those programs to other groups in the community. >> i want to ask you about pathmark, because you were in the news this last week. will you stick around for another segment? >> absolutely. >> okay, thanks. we'll continue our conversation with reverend calvin butts when

continues right after this. >> welcome back to "upclose." we're continuing our conversation with reverend calvin butts of the abyssinian baptist church in harlem. you were in the news, reverend butts, this last week about the closing this weekend of pathmark in east harlem, the first supermarket in that community. your development company sold the land last year, i guess, and is closing that. i'm sure you didn't want to close it. why did it get to this situation? >> first of all, we didn't close it. we sold the land only because we had to pay the lenders. we built the pathmark. we wanted it there. and so when we sold the land, it was only because the lenders were demanding their money, and it was not turning over the kind of money that would allow us to pay the lenders. >> you could sell ice to eskimos. you couldn't negotiate with them?

>> we couldn't negotiate. we refinanced twice based on the lenders wanting their money, for no other reason. not because i wanted the money, not because we needed the money. >> they wouldn't let you refinance? >> we couldn't refinance. when we finally refinanced once or twice, we got a little high interest rates and things like that. it's the way the banks operate. that's why i say when people make accusations, they have to understand that real estate in new york city, especially in a booming neighborhood because of us like harlem, is a very complicated matter. so we didn't want to sell it, but we had to in order to pay our lenders. that's number one. >> how did you feel about it? >> i hated it. didn't want to do it. number two, the city owned 49% of it, so part of the sale, the city is still holding $10 million of that sale. east harlem triangle, who was our partner, has half of the money, and we got the other half. and so when pathmark -- it had nothing to do with the sale.

>> the food emporiums have closed around the city and everything else. another food supermarket could go there. doesn't have to be at a big high rise. >> it doesn't have to be at a big high rise. it can go there. melissa mark-viverito said that east harlem group, east harlem triangle, they can pool their $10 million to $12 million together and build a supermarket. >> we have less than a minute to go. unfair to ask you this question with less than a minute. i need a quick answer. we have seen racial tensions at universities across the country. university of missouri big time, kean university, this week at columbia someone defaced a sign of the black journalists association there. you're president of old westbury. i don't know if they have any problems there. what do you make of this? and you got about 30 seconds to answer it. >> well, we're not as together as we think we are, and our college and university presidents are to do more to encourage diversity in faculty and in student bodies. and we have to bring -- we just brought bill moyers and john lewis to our campus at old westbury. you have to bring men like that,

women like that to your campus, because then students begin to hear the whole history of what we're going through. it changes minds and hearts. >> have universities become too interested in getting students jobs and not about opening dialogue? >> oh, that's a long question, but the answer is yes. >> okay. calvin butts, as always, a pleasure. >> good to see you. >> nice to see you. and on that note, that'll do it for this edition of "eyewitness news upclose." if you happened to have missed any of today's programs, you can check it again on our website, abc7ny. thank you all for watching. it's been a fun-packed show, lot of facts, lot of information. i'm bill ritter in for diana williams. and on behalf of all of us here at channel 7, enjoy the rest of