"tiempo." >> "here and now," the program featuring the news and interests of the african-american community. here's your host, sandra bookman. coming up, a look at the race for the white house and the rise in chaos and violence at trump rallies. also to come, in celebration of women's history month, a conversation with the leading voice on black culture and here. plus -- the new book "church ladies: the untold stories of harlem women in the powell era." and later, we'll talk to the women starring as the church ladies in the revival of the hit broadway musical "the color purple."

"here and now." >> as the presidential campaign heats up, fists have been flying along with the expected political rhetoric. critics are accusing republican front-runner donald trump of stoking that violence and hate. now, who's really to blame for the escalation of tension on the campaign trail, and how did we get here? joining us today is the executive director of the new york state democratic party and political analyst, basil smikle jr. welcome back to "here and now." >> thank you. >> nice to see you. oh, man. let's get to it. it has just been, really, a reality-television show on the campaign trail.

say that, from the beginning, trump was kind of stoking this animosity and it just finally boiled over. what's your take on that? >> well, you're right to say that it's somewhat of a reality show, right? and you have the carnival barker leading the pack, so to speak. you know, when i look at what's happening on the republican side, to me, there's a pall that has descended over this election season, mostly because of the kind of violence that we're seeing at these rallies. the vitriol coming from donald trump and a lot of his supporters has really stoked... inflamed a lot of people. and when you see protesters being sucker-punched on their way out the door, when he has said, "if you see someone with a sign, just grab it and smack them or throw tomatoes at them," or, you know, "i just wish we went back into a period of time where i could just punch somebody," you know, he has not taken responsibility for that language -- and to the point where even the senate majority leader, mitch mcconnell, has

actually needs to do something. i'm upset that the republicans have taken this long to address it, but if you have even the senate majority leader weighing that. >> but, you know, there are a lot of people that say that the republican party itself is responsible for a donald trump leading the way this election season. >> well, i would argue that certainly the republican consultants have created the atmosphere that we see now when they have spent the better part of eight years delegitimizing this president, when they have said -- donald trump in particular -- that he was not from here, he was not born here, saying that he's a muslim -- nothing wrong with being a muslim, but they were making that point to make people afraid, to incite this kind of fear. and when they have spent all of that time, all of these years doing this, saying that he was a liar when he spoke on the floor of congress for that very first time, when mitch mcconnell -- going back to him himself -- within the first year of the president taking office, says,

president," there is no -- there's a certain level of anger and animosity that i think a lot of the republican consultants and a lot of the leadership just stoked over the last few years that i can't help but wonder, if they had not done that, would we be in this environment right now? but i have to give some of them the blame there. >> one of the questions i have is, what does it say about the country that trump can [sighs] really speak disparagingly of women, minorities, just anyone who he doesn't like, and it's okay? it just seems to earn him more support. country? >> well, it says a lot. there are a lot of people who have said, "well, donald trump has created this," but in fact there were -- for a lot of the anger and the frustration that may have existed in this country

what donald trump has done is give it an angry voice. i was on another interview at some point in time, and somebody said, "is this the age of the angry white man?" and i said, "well, what's interesting about that is there are african-americans who've been angry and upset at government not doing what they feel government should have done to intervene and help our station economically, so we welcome to this fight, to this conversation." but this is not the way to to do it. you can't do it by pointing the fingers at immigrants. you can't do it by misogynistic. you can't do it by almost inciting violence at your rallies. so i think that there is a legitimate concern and anger over the economics in this country, but this is not the way to solve those problems. >> well, it could be argued that both trump -- and in fact it has been argued that both trump and

really capture that level of economic angst in the country. but it's interesting how the two sides have responded differently. >> that's right. and that's a great point, and i do think that bernie sanders, in many respects, has created a movement around... the economics of this country, the economic angst, as you've said, and the fears over the economic future of this country. there's nothing wrong with that. but what we've seen on the republican side is that you cannot speak to the people's fears. when you're running for president, you can't govern to fear. you have to govern to people's aspirations, and we've not seen that on the republican side. but i think, with hillary and with bernie, you're seeing that on the democratic side. >> so, going -- at this point, it really does look like it will be trump and hillary. we don't know what's gonna happen at either of the conventions, but if you look at the numbers, that's what it's looking like. can donald trump, you know, keep this up? is it going to be the same level of support? is he gonna find that same level

if he has to move to a more centrist position when you start talking about governing, if you're an actual candidate for president, not in the primary, but in the real presidential election, does he lose some of his base? and who could he possibly pick as a running mate? if he wants to pick a more moderate, is that going to anger the people that are really his supporters at this point? >> sure, well, a couple of things to note. no republican or democrat can get elected to the presidency by their party votes alone. you definitely need some crossover, and you need some independent votes. you're starting to see donald trump -- and even hillary clinton on the other side -- start to talk a little bit more across the aisle. donald trump has spent a little more time over the last day or so talking about unifying the party. my guess is that someone like a john kasich, who's trailing but won an important state in ohio, is sort of auditioning to be a vice presidential candidate.

front-runners, i think, start to talk to voters on the other side of the aisle and definitely speak more to the independents that are there because they're gonna make this -- they're gonna turn the tide in this campaign. >> you know, what's interesting is that you are executive director of the democratic party -- we have -- how donald trump has sucked up all of the air in the room. we've spent all this time with you talking about donald trump and the republicans. we certainly have to have you back to talk a little bit about the democrat race and what that election will look like as we go through the months ahead, and we hope you'll come back to help us figure that out. >> happy to. >> thank you, basil smikle. always nice to see you. still ahead on "here and now," "bad" sonia sanchez, the award-winning activist and poet, shares her take on a new documentary that looks back on

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take a look. >> when malcolm was assassinated, jones/baraka sent letters to all of the artists that he knew, saying, "come -- we are going to do a black arts repertory theater, bart, in harlem, and we're gonna continue malcolm's work." and so we referred to ourselves as "the children of malcolm." [ funk music plays ] >> "young black artists," that was a call that really turned them on, you know? i was surprised at how, you know, intense the response was. we opened a brownstone, and sonia came to the brownstone, and she became part of that whole crowd of us who got identified as the black arts. when we said "black art," we said that precisely because to be black was something off the wall. you know, "negro this, negro that." we said, "we don't need negroes.

if you white, i'm black." >> it is our pleasure to welcome back to "here and now" one of the leading voices on black culture and literature in this country and a lifelong advocate for women's rights, peace, and racial justice, ms. sonia sanchez. >> how are you, my dear sister? >> i'm terrific. and how are you? >> i'm okay. >> thank you for sitting down with us again. >> mm-hmm. >> this documentary -- you were on before with some of the women that worked on the documentary and working on some other films, and i asked you then and i'll ask you now -- how easy or difficult is it to watch yourself on film? >> ohh, my dear sister, it is not easy to watch yourself on film. the first time they showed it, i kind of slouched down and closed my eyes and wouldn't watch it. >> why? >> well, because we come from a generation of activists that you were not about praising yourself -- you were about doing the work.

you, you would say, "well, yes, well, it's all my other sisters and brothers and comrades who are doing the work, also, too. there are people much more important than i." so it is from that point of view that, when they said they wanted to do this film, i said, "well, why? why? who wants to see something about me?" but it was my children, mungu and morani, you know, who said to me, "mom, people really need to see how your generation survived, what you did, how you lived, how you taught, how you walked, you know, what it was, and how you took on the country sometimes and corporations at the same time, to say some things that needed to be said." and they said, "people need to see that." and they were right, you know? >> when you take a look at this work on your life -- and obviously, one documentary cannot encompass everything that you did, but it did a good job of giving us a real look at

the evolution of sonia sanchez. >> exactly, exactly. >> are there things that surprised you or that you saw or you heard yourself say that reminded you of things that maybe even you'd even forgotten? >> that is very true, my dear sister. you don't realize, for one thing, just how hard you work and then how -- and one of the things -- i was asked to come and do something. i had done something four straight days, and i said to my this." and it was recorded. it was on tape. [ both laugh ] but, you know, you get up on that stage, you see an audience, you see young people who are trying to understand, "what is really going on in the country, in the world?" and you get the energy to begin that discussion, that conversation. and you draw on the strength of your ancestors, you know, also, too. you say, "well, how can you say you're so tired?

worked from the time the sun came up until the time the sun went down on those plantations. and, hey, they survived. you're gonna survive, also." >> and in fact, a lot of people in the documentary said -- they gave you credit for, one, they said there would have been no hip-hop without the sonia sanchezes and without sonia sanchez specifically. they credit you with being a voice that has, in a way, given them their voice. you know, how do you respond to that? >> because it's the continuity. you know, we have to understand that, quite often, people come on the scene and they don't say, "i'm here because of the people who came before." i mean, we learned that we were indeed writers because there before, sister margaret walker, brother sterling brown, brother dudley randall, you know, brother langston hughes. you know, we were there because there was a harlem renaissance at some particular point, and

so when you understand that, you understand you're just part of a continuum, and when, finally, when i stop saying to my children, "oh, you keep playing that hip-hop, that rap. it's so loud. it's so fast." and one of my children turned around and said, "but, mom, you speak so fast that sometimes we had trouble understanding you." and i went, "oops. okay." and i leaned back, and we had a session on music one sunday morning, where i played all the people that i loved, from max roach and coltrane, you know, even going back as far as my father's with duke ellington -- you know, all these people who have played. and i also had some bach and some beethoven in there because my children would come down the stairs on a sunday morning and they didn't know what i was gonna have on there. and then they played theirs, and they also started out with, you know, coltrane, and they went on and on and on, and then, all of

said out loud, "you see what i'm saying, how fast they go?" and one of them said, "well, just listen." and i leaned back and listened and said, "oh, my goodness. listen to them." i mean, they are telling us some facts that we need to know, and they're doing it musically, and they're doing it with poetry, and i just loved to listen to them. so, you know, i began to listen to rakim, who talked about the body bags. >> yes. >> and the moment he talked about body bags coming home and they had pictures of the body bags, america saw that, and they stopped showing body bags, you know, with people coming home dead, because it inspired the people to get up and be organized also, too. but, you know, questlove, you know, talib... mos def -- he changed his name. i'm sorry. i'm sorry, def. >> [ laughs ] >> but all of those young people

about the world, you know, and all of them who said the things coming out of the bronx, you know, the brother coming from long island also, too, i brought on temple's campus. all these people got up and talked about what was going on in the world, and you felt good 'cause you realized -- i did a long essay from... the harlem renaissance to bam to hip-hop. [ exhales sharply ] it was that long line of continuity there. >> and that's really, i guess, what it's all about in your line of work. do you ever -- you know, what motivates you now to write? what do you write about now? >> oh, it's this country, you know? this country is a great motivator with all the madness that is going on, so you have to respond to that madness in some kind of way. >> let me add to that, though, do you find that you're writing

were writing 30, 40 years ago, and is that disturbing? >> no, but what i realize is that, when i read some of the earlier work, that people jump up, and they respond. i went, "whoa, can you imagine, things that i thought i wouldn't read anymore that now i go and i read?" but i was someplace, and someone looked at me so oddly about my hair, and this morning, i wrote a line, "my hair is a wilderness." i'm gonna finish it, you know, and talk about what that wilderness is all about, with all the beautiful wilderness that is going on. because you have to respond, but also, to the madness that's going on in this country, you've got to explain with beauty, with insight, with passion so our young people can look up and say, "hey, i can do that, also." can i just give you an example? i was going to temple early one morning. i had a grad student coming in, but i had to go to the store to

who comes in to clean my house, right? so i ran there, got in there, and i passed by the meat counter. you know how, in many of our neighborhoods, where they have shot the meat full of red dye and it looks so red that keeps it -- meat ain't that red. i know i teach english, but meat ain't that red. >> well, it's emphasis. i understood it. >> and then i looked at the fruit and vegetables, and they looked like they had had a nervous breakdown. so i got a cart and put the meat in there and the fruit and vegetables and pushed the button. this guy came out, and i said, "you know, i live in this neighborhood on purpose. it's a mixed neighborhood of working-class people, white, blacks, green, browns, whatever s-- and children and the elderly." i said, "but how dare you give us this kind of stuff to eat?" he said, "lady, i'm gonna call the police on you." i said, "good, because this is a criminal act right here in this

and so i said, "i'm coming back tomorrow, and i'm gonna see if you change," whatever. so i got the goods. i'm on line. someone tapped me on the shoulder. i turned around, and it was this young woman, she had three children, and she said, "miss, how do you do that?" i said -- i'm in a hurry -- i mean, my grad student, right? i said, "excuse me?" and she said, "how do you do that?" i said, "oh, oh, you mean --" she said, "yes," she said, "how do you go and confront people and do that kind of thing, right? i want to do that because i want my children to do that, also." that's why, my dear sister, you do this because we want our children to learn how to do it also, too, so no one takes advantage of them in a food store, in the supermarket, you know, in a shoe store, when, once upon a time -- i told my students that -- we couldn't try on shoes. we had to buy shoes without trying them on or buy a hat without trying the hat on, and

kind of herstory and history. >> and do you ever get tired of having to do it? was there a point that you envisioned that you wouldn't have to do this so many years later after you first started confronting people? >> i'm not so sure. at some point, i looked, and i understood how powerful this country is and how it can, in a sense, take control of culture. you know, culture is the consciousness of a people, and we were very much in control of the culture that was getting out amongst the city. that was whites, blacks, browns -- whatever -- yellow. i'm serious. but, you know, it's such a rich country that you can take control of it at some point. so you realize that sometimes you will have to repeat yourself, you will have to say it over again for a new generation, and that's okay. >> but it sounds to me like you feel satisfied that, that new generation, they're listening.

generation, what they do, from getting out in the streets with black lives matter, you know, to the poets like ursula rucker, the sister poet from detroit... and i can't believe i'm blanking on her name right now. but they are out there writing and responding to what is going on in the world, and i'm so proud of them, you know, all the way from baraka's son ras, who writes poetry, also, and is the mayor of newark, right -- so all these young people who are writing and they're getting out in the streets, also, doing the work that needs to be done. mm-hmm. >> sonia sanchez -- we're gonna tell everyone where they can get a chance to take a look at just a portion of the remarkable work that you've done over your lifetime. the national broadcast premiere of "baddddd sonia sanchez" is march 8th, tuesday, on international women's day, appropriately.

world channel's "america reframed" series. and you can go to americareframed.com -- i think it is -- and take a look at that schedule. >> right. >> thank you so much for coming on with us again. >> it's an honor to be here. >> honestly, you speak in poetry. >> thank you, my dear sister. >> thank you. >> thank you. keep up the good work, okay? >> i will try. >> okay. >> still ahead -- the untold stories of extraordinary women at the abyssinian baptist church

>> march is national women's history month, a time to pay tribute to generations of women committed to excellence. the book "church ladies: untold stories of harlem women in the powell era" does just that. history of the abyssinian baptist church during the heyday of the fight for civil rights -- it does so through the eyes of the women in that struggle. here today is dr. martia goodson, who is the author of this new book, and longtime abyssinian church member grace l. jones. thank you both for being with us this afternoon.

>> so, martia, i'm gonna ask you, what made you decide that this was a story that needed to be told in print? >> ah, that's a great question. i'm an oral historian. i interviewed a great number of women, and their stories were very compelling to me. but as i got deeper into the process of figuring out what to do with their interviews, it became apparent to me that these were not famous people. their deeds were unrecorded. their voices were silenced. and also, they offered a perspective on adam clayton powell jr., women who knew him from the time that they were children, and that perspective, i think, was unique in the annals of historiography about adam clayton powell jr. they had great stories to tell, and i felt they needed to be told. >> they really did. and, grace, when i started

recollection of first seeing him and he became your boyfriend... [ both laugh ] and you were eight or nine, right? >> i was, yes. >> i loved that honesty. it's sort of -- because it reminded me of when i was a kid in church, baptist church in texas, and some young minister came, and, you know, he was my boyfriend for five minutes with my sisters, you know? because i don't know that we was cute to us. how he looks. >> i sure do. i really do, yeah. and i thought it was such a wonderful introduction to you, and it really said a lot about, you know, your experiences with the church and how you grew through the church from that little girl through the woman, and how that church, abyssinian, was such an integral part of your life. >> wrapped its arms around me. >> was it difficult to share those stories and remembrances, or were you happy to have somebody listen to them? >> i was happy to have someone to listen to the story.

easy to chat with her and just let it all out, you know? >> and why do you think it's important that you and the other women got to talk about the church -- and not only the church, but also about your lives, what it said, what sharing those remembrances and that information about yourself said about abyssinian as a family place, and being part of, god, such an important time in african-american history? >> well, first of all, may i say i wanted to keep powell alive. >> mm-hmm. >> that, to me, is the most important thing because i feel so often people have forgotten, here was a man that did a great deal for us -- and just us but... >> us as a people. >> the country, right. and really the world because people -- i remember i went to london, and they were talking about a powell -- i think it was not boulevard or whatever, but

happy to know that he was respected beyond the united states. >> and you knew the man, and he was a friend. you know, i think a lot of people... [ sighs ] obviously, as an african-american, i know who adam clayton powell was and his significance to our history and this country, but you have this intimate history with him and the family and the church and the harlem community that he was such a part of. what about the man can you tell us that you think a lot of people don't know or have forgotten at this point in time? >> i'll tell you... from my childhood, he was so gracious. he would just greet us. and that doesn't happen very often. sometimes, they get rather stiff, and they just ignore the children, but powell, no. he knew each and every one of us, and right to my teens, he knew us very well. and, i mean, he knew the families.

go to him. he didn't say, "come and see me later." he took care of it right on the spot. >> mm-hmm. and as a historian, martia, i have to ask you -- dr. goodson. i'm sorry to so familiar. is it important for us to know these inside stories and to, you know, get a sense of that human being beyond the sort of the big picture and the "big name" when it comes to history? >> yes, on two fronts. these are untold stories not because the women were unwilling to tell them. no one asked them. and so you have this whole cache of rich history that's untapped. >> mm-hmm. >> so for that reason, here's a source that we haven't tapped before that we can get information from. but also, i think that the legacy of adam clayton powell has been smeared. >> mm.

remembered about him is very selective. what's remembered about him doesn't reflect his genius engineering legislation in washington. it doesn't reflect his genius in marshalling the people of harlem to become a voting bloc to make sure that they were recognized. i think that -- one of my hopes is that not only will the women's stories be told and their perspectives revealed, but that we can reexamine adam clayton powell -- >> and his legacy. >> and his legacy. >> and give it its due so that it's not just surface. >> and it's not just the name of a street uptown. >> right. one of the things that the book does do that reminds us all, that we kind of know but we don't hear about, is how active these "church ladies" were. they were protesting. i mean, we kind of feel this as women, but just the reminder

they were working hard in the movement and just what they did. >> one of these ladies was named grace jones, and she talked about her time, from the time that she was a preteen, marching on 125th street for jobs, behind the banner of, "don't shop where you can't work." >> right. >> she knew people that participated, and she was there. later on, when she graduated from high school, she encountered a situation, a job-discrimination situation that she described. i don't want the viewers to find out what it is. i want them to buy the book. but grace was trained, like many women were, to be proactive, and she says, "we didn't wait for something to happen. we went out and made it happen." and i think that's been true for a long time in her life. that's what needs to be remembered. >> are you proud of the stories you tell in the book and the other women and... >> i'm proud of the people i

susie craig, laura b. thomas, amy terry. oh, my god. i could just go on because they were my idols as a young person, to watch them in their activity. >> and now you're the idol of many of the people, the young women, at abyssinian. >> now i'm in that category. >> you know, before we go -- we're running out of time. the book also says a lot about why abyssinian is a great church, the reminder -- not just because it's a "great church." because of the people that made it great. >> yeah. >> yeah, and i think that the testimony of the women is especially poignant because i like to say, "no black women -- no black church." so often, the history of the church is told through the eyes of men. this is a diverse group of women who can testify because they were there. >> and it's really a wonderful, interesting read -- "church ladies: untold stories of harlem women in the powell era." thank you both for sharing just a little bit with us today.

>> and it is definitely worth reading. >> great. >> thank you very much. >> next on "here and now," the "church lady trio" from the hit broadway musical "the color purple." look at this sweet face. so sweet. ok, we're going to need a napkin

i would kill for something sweet. wanna split that? no...soooo much fat... don't fight your instincts. with 150 calories each, try our new rich & creamy cheesecakes. fiber one. [ "push da button" plays ] >> push da button >> push da button >> push da button >> push da button >> you gotta push it if you wanna come in >> yeah! >> push da button >> push da button >> give me somethin' to let you, baby, know it ain't no sin well, if you wanna feel the train a-come >> whoo-whoo! >> what do you gotta do? >> push da button >> like a blade of corn

like a honeybee >> like a waterfall all a part of me like the color purple where do it come from? >> where do it come from? >> now my eyes are open >> my eyes are open look what god has done amen >> critics have described the revival of the hit broadway musical "the color purple" as a fresh, new, powerful show. based on alice walker's pulitzer prize-winning novel and the motion picture, "the color purple" is an unforgettable story about love and life. joining us this afternoon -- three of the reasons behind the production's success.

"church ladies" -- talented actresses carrie compere, rema webb, and bre jackson. thank you all for being with us this afternoon, and i have to tell the audience you guys have already been threatening to make me laugh throughout this... [ laughter ] ...entire interview. >> of course. >> that's okay. i'm tougher than i look, all right? so bring it on. [ laughter ] i'm gonna throw this question out for all three of you. you know, what does it mean -- 'cause you're no strangers to big productions, but what does it mean to be part of this show, such a successful and beloved production? >> i guess, for me, "the color purple" is so iconic. you're talking -- you're going back to whoopi goldberg and oprah winfrey and director steven spielberg and alice walker, who is a beautiful woman, who wrote this gorgeous piece. for me to be able to be a part of this legacy is phenomenal.

watching the movie, and to be able to be a part of a production now is wonderful -- and the fact that i get to do it with these girls, you know, it's been amazing, absolutely amazing. >> i'm gonna ask you two the same thing. it's a special... a chance of a lifetime, i guess. >> it is. i would say the other part of it is that it's a story that is timeless, and we're also changing people. that's probably my best -- my favorite part, besides these three. >> [ laughs ] >> it's probably my favorite part because we're actually changing people's lives every time they come in and see this show, and that's powerful because that's the power of art and that's the power of this story. and it's beautiful to be able to change people, to know that you can put forth your gifts and change someone. >> it's one of these rare instances where the revival of a beloved production is getting

than the first production. and a lot of what has been said is because it's been trimmed down a little bit to the essentials. >> it's been stripped down to the bare bones so there's nothing to distract you from the story and the music. it's just all about the story and the music. it almost reads like a play with music. >> mm-hmm. >> and even for us onstage, there's no set coming in, there's no king's curtain, there's no big production to worry about -- "oh, my god, i hope i get all these steps right." there's not even a follow spot. our director, john doyle, wanted anything that was musical "theater-ish" to be taken out. so even for us, you have to stay present in the story at all times. and you can see, when you see the play, a lot of times, we are on the stage like we are audience members. >> mm-hmm. >> there's also no fourth wall at any time, so the audience is invited into the story at all times, 100%. >> now, does that make your work harder as an actress?

do this kind of show, i know, at the end of the evening, you are just -- you know, you're exhausted -- maybe exhilarated, but exhausted. does this kind of show, where you have to be so present at every moment and so much of the production hinges on your being present, does that make it harder to do? does it just add to the excitement? >> mm. >> i feel it adds to the excitement. i really do. we really do feed off of each other and the audience, as well. and the fact that john has sort of lowered the fourth wall and allowed us to encounter them in a way and approach the audience in a way where we don't have to be too careful -- we can kind of just be out there -- it gives me energy. every time -- i don't care how i come in there, i can be sick, tired, just ready to go back to sleep -- i get onstage, and because i know the audience is ready and we're ready, it takes it to another level for me in a

in some of the other productions that i've been in. >> so, talk to me about the church ladies. you're such an important part of the show. you guys have unbelievable voices, just powerhouse voices. >> thank you. >> but you're also really funny. you're comic relief a lot of times. i think, also, you're that kind of "i told you so" kind of -- >> oh, absolutely. absolutely. >> so talk to me about that dynamic and what it means in terms of not only the show, but other. >> it started in rehearsals. >> it did. >> day two. day two, we gravitated towards each other, and we've been tripping off of each other since then, even in the dressing room. >> oh, absolutely. >> i'll start there, and you [ laughter ] >> well, we're sort of the unofficial greek chorus of the show because we come in, we say our little bit, and we toddle on off and keep moving. >> like church ladies.

and it's interesting because we weren't funny initially when we started the rehearsals. he didn't want us being funny. he wanted us to be grounded in the truth and understand that we are actually saying some very horrible, mean things. >> yeah. >> and somehow, it's funny. and so, when he added us to being comedic, we were just like, "oh, okay. this is -- wait a minute. you're laughing at this, but this is really awful." >> that foundation is there -- >> that foundation, and so we can never get too heightened and become too caricature because it's grounded in the fact that we are people that we've seen in our past. >> that's the thing. i think the audience is recognizing you in a lot of ways. >> oh, absolutely. >> oh, my character's definitely the women that i grew up with in morning star baptist church in clairton, pennsylvania. >> you got to name the church. >> they are definitely -- >> shout out! [ laughter ] >> well, a lot of them are in their 90s, but they're definitely women -- you know, when they get up, they're like >> mm-hmm. >> they shouldn't be wearing

going over their heels. >> just turning out and just trying to hold on. >> and the, "i got something to put in your ear later." >> right, right. >> all right, did you go to my church? [ laughter ] but that's the best part. >> the other thing i could say about the role of the church ladies is that we are sort of an emotional reprieve, i believe, for the audience because there is such heavy material that we deal with. so when we come up, we not only have the responsibility of relaying the truth, but telling people, "it's okay." like, "you just experienced this really heavy scene right here, but it's all right. we're gonna help to sort of temper you emotions right now," because there is a lot carried through the entirety of the show so... >> before i let you go, i have to ask you -- there's some really powerful performances in the show besides your own. jennifer hudson is of course in the show, and we all know what she could do, but the young woman that plays the part of celie -- >> yes, cynthia erivo. >> such...

>> absolutely. >> absolutely. she's -- when i first saw her, i was just like -- i think we were all like, "what planet..." >> "...did you come from?" >> "...did you come from?" i think that was like the question of rehearsals, is just like, "where did you come from?" her work ethic is amazing, and she's just -- she's humble, and she's lovely, and i love working with her. i'm privileged -- >> she doesn't waste an ounce of -- she doesn't waste one note, one breath, one movement, at any moment, on what's happening to the story. and that's a -- it's such a pleasure to watch her work. coming from such a humble -- a place of humility as a person, that's really -- it's crazy watching her. she's a beast. >> i could say the same thing about the three of you. >> and then the three women together, danielle and jennifer with cynthia, it's just -- and joaquina. >> mm-hmm.

absolutely a force to be reckoned with. >> they cast this right. >> yeah, they really did. >> i must say myself -- >> patrice covington. >> yes, yes. >> amazing team. >> thank you guys for coming, continued success, and as my mother would say, the church lady would say, "continue to show out on stage." >> amen! [ laughter ] >> all right. coming up next -- a new play uptown. it's about the "king of harlem," sugar ray robinson. stay with us. >> and if you think i'm trying to throw some dirt on my man... all across america families are coming back to time warner cable for a whole new experience. that's because we've been working hard to give you better service, and it shows. we came back for internet speeds so fast even the kids are impressed. oh she's impressed.

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morning gary. we are get schooled... ...dot com. you want a college education, don't you? you know you do. that's why we're here. we're free, and here to guide you through every step of the way. starting with... attendance. [air horn] gary, financial aid forms... picking a college, man! you and us. we go together like tacos and tuesday. and i loooove tacos. narrator: go to getschooled.com >> he was known as the "king of harlem," sugar ray robinson, considered one of the greatest boxers of all time, with an astonishing 200 victories. well, a new play about his boxing legacy is being performed at the original site of his bar

>> he goes in for a crotch. i shoot a couple of jabs at him. he comes in close for the grab. he lifts his head, and, again, he head-butts me -- same eye, same results. got blood streaming from my eyes. i can hardly see, but i can see the ref looking at me close. he can stop the fight. in a panic, i throw a feint. he falls for it. i hook him, uppercut him, and crush him with a right! he goes down, but he gets up quick enough. i can hear the crowd going hush then. i think he's okay, but when i move in close, i see he's got no legs. he can't move. and i mash him. [ grunting ] >> with us today is the founder and producing director of the new federal theatre, woodie king jr., and actor reginald wilson, who stars as sugar ray robinson. thank you both for being here. now, how did this production

robinson's old restaurant? >> well, it came about because, you know, we were sitting there, reginald, bernardo rubie, and i, was talking about, you know, another play that "reggie" wanted to do. and i looked at the wall, and i saw all these pictures of sugar ray, and i said, "i got a friend. back in the '70s or '80s, we were trying to do a movie based on sugar ray robinson, and we was going to all these places, motown, everybody giving us a lot of front money." play. i think he made that into a play," and he had made it into a play. and i brought it and gave it to reggie. he says, "whoa, i want to do it." bernardo said, "let's do it." and that's how it came about. >> now, as you guys said here, woodie looked at you and goes, "you know he looks just like sugar ray robinson," so i know you've heard that before. is that why you wanted to do it, or was it just his life and his story really spoke to you? >> well, it was a combination of both. i hear a lot, because we do have the big picture of sugar ray on

come in and they ask the question, "how did y'all get that picture to look so old?" because they thought it was me on the picture, and i let them know, "no, that's sugar ray." and once we had that meeting about the other play that we were gonna do and woodie came up with the idea of doing "sugar ray robinson," a play, i got excited. it was something that i didn't know about. i mean, i knew about sugar ray robinson, but i didn't know of his legacy. >> mm-hmm. >> so it gave me the opportunity to jump right into the research. you know, i'm an educator first, so it gave me an opportunity to jump into the research and just start looking at videos and just reading up on sugar ray robinson and learning how he was the original pound-for-pound greatest boxer. 'cause, you know, in my generation, we think it's -- >> muhammad ali. >> or mayweather, you know? >> well, i guess that is your generation. my generation -- [ laughs ] >> but not after doing all of

play by laurence holder and having woodie as the director and him giving me so much insight on everything that happened during the times. i mean, it's a dream role. >> and honestly, i knew of, just like you, but didn't really know all that he'd done, didn't realize, you know, he had a dancing career, that he was such a big real-estate holder in harlem. i didn't really know all of that. and do you expect that people -- you anticipate that they are gonna be as fascinated with his story and learning the history of the man as you both are? >> i think so. i think, when people come there and see it, they come back with all these photographs and booklets and pictures they've taken with sugar ray. "my cousin in cleveland sent me the boxing gloves that he gave to her after he killed a guy in the ring." and her mother -- she sent pictures of her mother and sugar ray. i said, "oh, my god." and i'm thinking, you know, back

sugar ray was, like, the champion, in jet every week -- he in that domain all the time. and we'd go to the movies because that's where our -- we didn't have television. we had to go to the movies and see newsreels of his film. and one day, i was looking at it, and whoever was that was narrating -- walter winchell or someone -- says, "sugar ray just won a fight. he's gonna go to his restaurant now." and they show him going in the restaurant, and he's walking among the customers, serving drinks and food. and when reggie and i start working on it, reggie says, "i can pour them drinks. i can walk among them." and it's like that newsreel came alive, and i saw it 55 years ago. >> and it's just -- it's sort of an interactive experience, which we are really big on now. so we should tell the viewers that it is in fact done as dinner theater now at the harlem besame restaurant.

>> how is that, being -- you're in character, you're performing, but, also, people are eating, they're drinking, they're talking, and now i'm hearing you're walking amongst them at times. >> well, the first i time i walked into the ring, i wanted to run on out of there! [ laughter ] but i didn't. >> why was that? what surprised you or shocked you about it? >> it was the excitement, the fear, seeing all of the theater greats, seeing all of the people that i looked up to, and just to see them all in the restaurant. and they were excited for the story, and they were excited for me to come out, and when i walked out, you know, there was an ovation. >> [ laughs ] >> and, you know... >> and it was really close. it's not like being up on a stage. you're right in there. >> it's very close, to the point that i pour drinks through the show, you know? if i see a glass empty, you know, i pour you something to drink. or if i see someone sitting, i

help them to their seats -- the same thing that sugar ray would do. so the direction that woodie gave me, he really, really moved me around the audience so that it can be an interactive experience. >> and it honestly -- and i haven't seen it yet. i hate to admit this, but i do plan to see it. harlembesame.com. >> yes. >> and the show is running through... >> march 28th. >> yeah. and maybe beyond, huh? >> yes, maybe beyond. >> okay. >> but they got to remember -- sunday, two shows, 2:00 and 7:00; monday, 7:00; tuesday, 7:00. so it's only sunday, monday, and tuesday. >> and if you go to that website, harlembesame.com -- ticket information and show times. >> yes. >> thank you both for being with us this afternoon. you're always welcome. woodie, we know you're gonna be back. >> [ laughs ] yeah. >> and we would love to see you again, too. >> thank you for having me. >> you're going to see him. you're gonna say, "that's the guy who was on 'here and now,'"

[ laughter ] >> hey, we're gonna keep our fingers crossed. >> we are. >> yeah, thank you. [ laughs ]

>> thanks for joining us on "here and now." if you missed any portion of today's show, you can watch at

and if you'd like to comment or share your story, e-mail us at abc7ny or follow us on facebook and twitter. i'm sandra bookman.

[ theme music plays ] welcome to a special edition of "our world with black enterprise." we're at the 2016 north american international auto show in detroit. i'm your host paul carrick benson. it's the year of mobility, innovation and performance. >> we talked to the woman making history as the first female ceo and chairman of general motors, mary barra has plans to take car culture to the next level. >> i really have to give a lot of people at general motors credit for giving me great assignments, stretching me, challenging me.