>> "here and now," the program featuring the news and interests of the african american community. here's your host, sandra bookman. >> coming up, a new law that's reforming the speedy-trial provision ensuring that people aren't held in jail longer than necessary. how it could affect rikers island. plus, the man behind the motown sound, berry gordy jr., talks about his rise to fame and the "motown: the musical." later, as the mount vernon public library honors hip-hop legend heavy d, his mother reflects on his life and music career. but first this afternoon, a look at how black police officers handle the dual role thrust upon them as the country grapples with the fallout in the wake of a string of controversial police shootings of unarmed black men and several tragic police killings. our guests today are both former

noel leader, co-founder of 100 blacks in law enforcement who care, and de lacy davis, founder of black cops against police brutality. welcome back to both of you. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> as you've watched what's been going on over the last few months and weeks, just your thoughts on, you know, where the community is and where policing is? >> well, my thoughts are that it's unfortunate, you know, that we have these consistent and persistent unjustified shootings. because now something that the african american community and the african american police officers have known for years is they're being videotaped. and so the whole world is getting the opportunity to see some of these incidents that members of the african american community have been complaining about for so long. it's very difficult when we don't get justice -- when there's not an indictment, a conviction, and then sentencing the police officer, which makes things much more difficult. so, we're pained as well as

professionals, as well as our community, when we see over and over again these unjustified, unnecessary shootings. >> de lacy? >> yeah. i think that we're in difficult times and trying times. and certainly for black police officers, i think that the current black police officer is betwixt and between. >> mm. >> because they're not joining black police organizations as i did and we did, which is how noel and i met some 25 years ago. we were forced to join those black police organizations because we were told that there was a reason for a national black police association because black people weren't being treated well in '72 when they founded the organization. and here we are in 2016, and we're still not being treated well. but what we're not hearing is the voice of those black professionals out there on the front line who know better and can demand better. >> well, how do you, as a police officer -- you both, at one point, walked the beat --

around and knowing that people are upset with you, angry with you. you know, maybe you're concerned, as you pointed out, noel, that nobody's speaking up, and officers that are doing something wrong aren't being punished for it. so you're that caught in between, as you said. >> mm-hmm. >> you know, what is going through your head as an officer? and how do you walk that line? going to meetings with black nia force and ras baraka in the basement of their house on south 10th street, 'cause i lived in newark, new jersey. and they said, "you can come into the meeting, but you can't bring your gun." and they searched me when i got to the meeting, and they kept me at a meeting four to six hours, and i was harassed through the entire meeting, and what i've told black officers, that's an experience that every police officer should have to have. you need to be in your community, forced to strip down without the gun, without help, and humble yourself. so it's that humility.

"tell me a skill set that you're lacking in, and find a young person in the community to teach you how to do it. and let me know when you want me to come and observe your test." for me, it was learning how to rollerblade. no one was rollerblading. i had 10-year-olds teach me how to rollerblade. because you've got to become humble. what happens is that we are taught in the police academy that we don't back down. you advance. you do not retreat. so police officers have a culture in which they believe that you're soft or you're weak if you retreat, if you cry, if you express some >> for me, as an african american youth, i have experienced and observed police brutality. so i was prepared for it. >> mm. >> and i said, "when i become a police officer, i'm going to be that fulcrum -- i'm going to be that middle person that stops that from happening and that objects when i observe it happening." and that's really the responsibility of the black police officer, to make certain that when you become a part of this profession, which we all know has historic racial problems against members of the african american community, that you not only do not participate in that, but that

by commissioners and heads of police organizations -- >> yes. >> and mayors that there's a persistent problem of racism in this law-enforcement community, and it's our responsibility as police officers to be that voice because we see it from inside, and we it from outside as well. >> why do you feel more officers don't do that, don't speak up, even before there's a killing? >> right. because there's a culture of retaliation -- >> yes. >> and that emanates, that speak up. we've seen it in new york city when a police officer exposed the racial quotas that exist, a white police officer, who came public and had recorded his commanding officer demanding that they do racial quotas, which is illegal. and he got attacked by this police commissioner. so, there is a culture within law enforcement that you don't go against the grain, and officers that do go against the grain, even if we're talking about brutality or unjustified police shootings, that if you object to that and you're

>> do you feel like we are at a point, especially just given the last few months, where more people, after what has happened, are willing to say, "look, you know what? i didn't want to admit it. i didn't want to deal with it, but something's going on here, and we have to step up"? >> so, we're seeing what we saw, i think, a police officer, nakia jones, went on the internet, and she went on a rant and a tear. but we're seeing it come from some of the women. definitely not the men. we're not speaking up. it's there. it exists. and people want to deny that it exists. the other piece is that -- what i've -- my experience across the country -- that black officers start making this money, and they leave the community. they take themselves, their wives, and their children as far from the community that launched them as they can, so as to delude themselves into believing that somehow they're going to go along to get along. >> you know, there's been some complaints that the black lives matter movement has contributed or is responsible for the violence against police officers.

preposterous. you know, when you say, "black lives matter," just those three words, that's a positive statement. but some people who have issues with black lives' really mattering see it in a negative, as if you're saying other lives don't matter. and i think that's preposterous. the black lives... police brutality -- this illegal, unnecessary, unlawful police shootings -- have been occurring before the black lives matter... >> that's right. >> ...even came into existence. so that's just an excuse of individuals who have problems with putting those three words together that >> and is... have you seen where black police officers are more difficult -- the same as white police officers, i should say, not more difficult -- but have issues with dealing with black suspects or the black community? they somehow believe also that if it's a black person, a person of color, there's going to be extra trouble? >> i think that some of them suffer from what i call confused negro syndrome -- black people in positions of authority are more concerned

doing the right thing. and that white thing is what they were taught in the police academy -- that the suspect in your community has a black, brown, and a poor face on it. so, when you see yourself, you see yourself as a suspect first. we're taught in the academy that you're not black, you're not latino, you're not white, that you're blue. so you're programmed. certainly, if you live in a community and you have an understanding of the community, you know whether or not you should have a heightened sense of security because of what's going on in the community. i can feel it when i'm in new york. i feel it in new jersey. i feel it in l.a. but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's hey, i'm worried about a white guy with a briefcase in my community stealing a bank! [ laughter ] >> and when you see the comments of this police officer in the recent assault case on that teacher, when he says that 99% of black people have violent tendencies, for somebody to believe that with a badge and a gun and have the authority and the power in our community to make arrests or even utilize deadly physical force -- >> yes. >> that's very dangerous. and we're seeing a whole lot of these incidents where african americans aren't even

that -- the psychiatrist who had his hands up and said, "i'm unarmed." you know, he was still fired on. so, the violence exists in the psychology, in the mind-set, of these white racist police officers or black or latino racist police officers who have these tendencies and believe that 99% of black people are violent. so they see violence when it really is not even existing. it's not in existence. >> is that bias, or is that a mental-health issue? do you think police officers...? seriously, is it something that's learned? carrying a gun? is it just because you're wearing the badge? is it just because you're white? is it just because you're blue? what is it? >> let me say this. if you had to walk through that community unarmed and no backup and no help, you'd change your mind-set. >> mm-hmm. >> you wouldn't have the luxury of privilege. and that's for those that are caucasian. for those that are of color, you wouldn't hate yourself so much if you were forced to face yourself. >> right. and it's everything that you just announced. >> yeah. >> the racial component -- we cannot eliminate it because

unjustified shootings that -- these horrific assaults -- that, you know, you stop somebody for a license plate and they wind up dying, getting killed, or, you know... so the racial component, we cannot eliminate that as being the primary cause of the overwhelming majorities of unfortunate incidents, and the failure of heads of these departments to talk about that and be serious about doing something -- but not just talk about it, but be serious in resolving that as an issue -- is going to perpetuate the problem. it's not going to resolve anything. officers? do they need more training? do they need...? go ahead. >> so, i often say, "how do you untrain a racist?" >> right. >> and how do you train an officer who hates who he or she is, in terms of their skin, to love their skin? so, certainly, we take a psychological exam to come on the force, but i would argue that you begin to crack and snap when you're at high levels of stress over long periods of time without the proper opportunity to debrief and deprogram.

and that's a good thing. but that is not encouraged. so police officers are not encouraged to come forward. you're not encouraged to cry. and if an officer thinks that he or she needs help and goes to the department for help, they take your gun, and then you're at risk of losing your job. >> the solution is, when these police officers act inappropriate, they have to get indicted, prosecuted, and sentenced. >> mm. >> you know, you're -- then you're sending a message that this behavior is not acceptable. if you're racist, if you don't like black people, i can care less. but when you wear that uniform, you have to act as a professional. dislikes, to yourself. if you act inappropriately, if you act in an illegal fashion, you have to get prosecuted and sentenced. that will send the right message... >> absolutely. >> ...to police officers that this activity is not tolerated. and there's a failure, even on video -- everybody thought video was the catch-all and save-all -- even when these incidents are caught on video, there's no successful conviction and imprisonment of this officer. wrong message. >> and one last question before i let you go.

today that are still on the job, watching these police killings -- the officers that were killed -- baton rouge, dallas -- are they more afraid to do their jobs? >> police officers? no, i don't believe... you know, police officers' getting killed, how unfortunate it is, and these incidents where you have officers assassinated -- there's no fear to do the job. you know, the danger in law enforcement is natural. all of us knew when we take the job that it's a possibility that we might get but what law-enforcement agencies have to recognize is the level of frustration that certain communities have when they feel that they're being attacked and there's no resolve, that there's no protection, that we have no protection whatsoever, you know, in terms of if we are attacked by a police officer or killed or assaulted by police officers. we have to understand the role that that plays. but, you know, policing is a dangerous job, you know. our... you know, we console those families of those lost police officers. but, you know, this is part of

become police officers. it's a very dangerous job. >> it's an occupational hazard. and we knew that we would have this occupational hazard. but i think that when police officers function as occupying armies in communities, then you increase that hazard significantly and exponentially. and therein lies the problem. >> mm. >> noel, de lacy, thank you both for being with us this afternoon. >> thank you. >> this is a continuing conversation. >> unfortunately, but true. >> when we come back, the new law that seeks to reduce the

>> the new york state assembly recently passed a law to reform the speedy-trial provision ensuring that people are not held in jail longer than necessary. now, unofficially, it's called kalief's law. it's named after kalief browder, a young black man accused of stealing a backpack. he spent more than 1,000 days in rikers island, about 700 days in solitary confinement he later committed suicide, depression reported to be a factor, likely because of his ordeal in rikers. here today is the founder of justleadershipusa, glenn martin. he is also the leader behind a push for massive reform at rikers island. welcome. >> i'm glad to be here. >> thank you for joining us today. the good news is that the state assembly has passed this law.

affords people the opportunity to have access to justice in a speedy amount of time so that the loss of liberty is not a factor for people who are simply charged with a crime and not convicted. well, here in new york, we have an island 200 feet just off laguardia airport that houses over 8,000 people. 81% of them are folks who are simply charged with a crime and not convicted. >> mm-hmm. >> and as they're going back and forth to court, what you find is that there are ws system for the prosecutor, but also the defense, to be quite frank, to avoid the speedy-trial provision, and part of it is that when you file a motion, there's ways to delay the clock. there's also the fact that the clock gets delayed by court congestion, and places like the bronx have a heavy amount of court congestion, which is where kalief's case was being held. >> i guess part of the question i have is, well, why doesn't the

state law -- why doesn't it supersede all that already without having to file something else to make the system work the way it should be working? >> yeah. one might think so. access to justice, as we know from all the things we're hearing in the news these days, is an issue across our country. here in new york, where you have millions of people living in a city where you have a court system that is often clogged, although nowhere near as clogged as it was during the giuliani admini 23,000 people on rikers, versus the 8,000 today. but what we have found is that even though the number of cases going through the courts has diminished significantly, the time it takes to process those cases has increased significantly at the same time. so, during the giuliani administration, on average, it would take 100 days to process a felony case. now it's well over 200 days. >> and that's because of the backlog, the congestion, but

that there are so many loopholes in the system that the prosecutor's office takes full advantage of it, but again, the defense bar, similarly, you can take a case and allow it to become "stale," right, a case that becomes old -- you have a better chance of getting a plea deal. and unfortunately, our criminal-justice system, whether a person's innocent or not, tends to move forward because large numbers of people take pleas. as part of our "close rikers" campaign, we had a woman whose son was on rikers for almost six years, and he finally took a six on rikers. >> but how is it legal to have someone in a jail without trial for six years? >> yeah. what new yorkers don't realize is often the punishment is in the process. so, like kalief, who spent three years there, ultimately, they decided not to even move forward with his case. >> but stealing a backpack? how did that ever rise to the level of "oh, he needs to be in jail for the...?" >> i agree, and allegedly stealing a backpack, right?

given day, a place where we spend $209,000 per bed per year, are there awaiting access to justice. i just visited rikers a couple of weeks ago. i spoke to about 10 men who were there. every single one was there more than three years, some as long as 5 1/2 years. >> we should explain to people, you actually do really know what you're talking about because you did, when you were younger, spend some time on rikers. >> correct. yeah. so i was at rikers when i early 20s, and then ultimately i served a year on rikers and then five more years in state prison. and so what's amazing to me, as someone who's many, many years away from that sort of behavior and the punishment that came along with it, is that if you look at the recent department of justice report about a year and a half ago that talked about rikers island having this culture of violence, this "lord of the flies"-like culture, the sort of stuff that contributed to kalief's depression, i was there 30 years

coming out of this place -- >> and getting worse and worse and worse. >> and getting worse and worse. and it's why our "close rikers" campaign, supported by 75 organizations here in new york, continues to push our progressive mayor towards closing the facility and creating a smaller, more humane and fair criminal-justice system. >> now, about this, kalief's law, we got it passed in the assembly. now it goes before the senate. assembly, it passed, we should say, with only two votes against it. >> the senate, you expect to be a little bit more difficult. and why is that? >> well, the senate is controlled by republicans. we're a nonpartisan organization, so we obviously believe that the republicans need to play a role here in fixing this injustice. and yet, at the same time, one of the arguments that we're hearing from the more conservative upstate senators is that "well, this is a new york problem, the fact that you have these huge court delays. they're real, but that's a new york problem. so, good luck dealing with

not be operating that way. and second of all, the fact of the matter is that, as we do more and more research about upstate court systems, we find that there's evidence of some of the very similar delays happening in upstate courts. obviously, but they're not processing as many people as here in new york. i mean, rikers island, there's 8,000 people there on any given day, but there's over 70,000 admissions each year. >> [ sighs ] how much of the reluctance to do something about this do you think may be rooted in the fact held at rikers are people of color? young men of color? >> yeah, 89% of the people held at rikers on any given day are people of color, and you're absolutely right, and these are the very people that by definition in our city are poor, have lack of access to resources and lack of access to power and privilege. and a big part of our push for our mayor, who rode into office as a criminal-justice reformer, is that it takes someone like him to spend his political

session to try to convince the senate to do this, that we'll receive full support from the mayor, who says that he's interested in reforming our criminal-justice system. >> all right. and we're going to send people to your website, justleadershipusa.org. you can find out more information about the legislation, the push to close rikers, and how we can lend our voices to your efforts. >> absolutely. this is an issue that affects all new yorkers. >> okay. thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you. >> we'lle

when we became teachers, the state made a commitment to us. i knew that i wasn't going to make a fortune. but i would have a secure pension plan when i retired. each and every one of us made that contribution from every paycheck we ever earned. they've been negligent in their responsibility over the years of not funding this pension the way it should have been funded. they have made a promise,

>> ? it ain't that blind that i can't see ? ? somebody out there who's perfect for me ? >> dwight "heavy d" myers will be forever known as "the overweight lover," one of hip-hop's most popular, charismatic, and influential rappers. and now the place he called home, mount vernon, is paying homage to his life and music career. the mount vernon public library is honoring heavy d with the collection. joining us today is his mother, eulahee elliott myers, and the community outreach coordinator for the mount vernon library, catherine webb. thank you both for being with us this afternoon. >> thank you for having us. >> i can already see, ms. myers, where your son got his personality. >> thank you. >> 'cause you are full of personality. >> thank you. >> [ chuckles ] no question. and i can only imagine that you miss him every single day.

of the day. >> does it make it a little bit easier that when people say "heavy d," that i'm sure they generally smile? or they recite lyrics to some song that he wrote because they, you know, they still hear it in their heads? >> it makes it that little bit easier, but sometimes it's very emotional. >> mm-hmm. >> because the hurt and the pain, it's there. you're able to cope from day to day. but it never goes away. >> and it has to at least make you feel better to know that he was so succe-- he was so young when he died, but very successful and doing what he loved, so he really got to live this life that he wanted. >> he sure did. and he died at a young age, but he lived.

what he did. so that -- >> did you always know that... was music always his thing? >> well, we are from jamaica, and we are a music household. >> [ chuckles ] okay. >> so, you know, you always have music on somewhere in the house. and ever since he was little, he was always singing, dancing, doing something with music, but i never thought he would have reached the heights that he did. even though i've had several run-ins withim rapping because back then, it was so stigmatized. >> mm-hmm. >> and i wanted him to get an education because i'm very adamant about education. >> and i guess you weren't sure if this rap thing was going to turn into anything. >> exactly. so he made me a promise, and he kept it. >> mm-hmm. >> when he made "mr. big stuff," he said that if he didn't make it within a year, he would go back to

fight with him anymore. >> yeah, he did very, very well. >> took off, and that was it. >> so, tell me about this -- i'm going to ask you, catherine -- tell me about this collection. why did the library decide this was the perfect thing for mount vernon? >> well, i am a mount vernonite, born and raised, and heavy d became a native son, and everyone in our community so we felt it best to -- if we were going to have a hip-hop collection, who better to honor it than heavy d? >> yeah. >> so we reached out to the myers family, and mrs. myers gave us the go-ahead, and we started building this great collection of books and music cds and dvds. so, everything that heavy's ever done musically, we have.

and then we also added a bunch of hip-hop books. so some of them focus -- scholarly writings, like by nelson george. but we also have some fun things. like, we have a children's book with the history of kool herc. so, we're going to provide our community with books on hip-hop culture and how hip-hop has changed the global pop aspect of the world. so we're very proud of that. we're even more so proud to have it named after heavy d. that, that your son is -- his -- and his life and his career is the impetus behind this collection, continuing his legacy and also teaching people about what it is that he loved? >> it has really made us proud because of the fact that, even though he has passed on, that so many people loved him.

africa and all over the place that how much they loved him, and every time i turn the radio on and i hear his music playing, it makes us so proud of him. >> makes you feel good. >> and, you know, it gives you such a good feeling inside. the negativity that's out there, it's not always there. it's not everyone that's, you know, negative. so, we loved him. and god took him -- i don't know and living to his memory. and i found a foundation in memory of him, which we had the opening last month. because a lot of people are not educated on thrombosis. >> and that's what killed him. >> that's what killed him. he went to do the tribute to michael jackson, and he drew a clot coming back, and he died within two days of coming back. and i want to make people be

deep vein thrombosis is. i researched it, and nowhere could i find anyone who knows anything about it or any organization. so that's when my family, we decided that we would start it. so i discussed it with floyd, my other son, and he said, "mom, go ahead. do it, because if you can help someone, educate them on this" because it's such a dangerous >> yeah, and not knowing about it. >> not knowing about it. so at least you can be prepared. >> for it. >> and he was an artist, so i decided i would also make it so the schools in mount vernon -- i wanted -- adopted a school, longfellow, many years ago. >> mm-hmm. >> and they just brought the arts program to the schools, and i want to be able to donate instruments and stuff to some of the schools in mount vernon.

my belief is that music will make you whole. that's what i believe. >> and a lot of people agree with you. >> a lot of people. yes. >> catherine, before i ask you -- let you guys go -- what are you hoping folks will get when they come to the library and take a look at this collection? >> well, the ultimate goal is for them to see this collection, and what i am inspired by is the young people that are coming in, and they're literally asking, now, heavy d may not have created the moniker of money-earning mount vernon, but he certainly used it and catapulted mount vernon to that success and that notoriety, so we're blessed to be able to explain to young people not just what hip-hop culture is today but the actual birth of hip-hop. for the older generation, we consider hip-hop a culture that we embrace. it's not solely rap music, but

about all the aspects -- the dance, the business, the finance -- so that maybe they may become moguls like heavy d. he wasn't just a rapper. >> yeah. >> he was an actor. he was an artist. he was an executive. he was a record executive. he ran uptown records. so we're trying to encourage our young people to go for their dreams. heavy d would always list on his twitter page "to be inspired." and we're hoping this collection inspires our community. mount vernon is the central li so we invite everyone from all over to come in, to see the collection, to talk to the staff. we're here, and we're looking forward to it. >> all right. thank you both for being with us this afternoon. it's the dwight errington myers hip hop collection at the mount vernon public library. best of luck to both of you. >> thank you, sandra. thank you for having us. >> still to come, the founder of motown, mr. berry gordy jr. stay with us. >> it never gets old,

>> determined to control and produce his own music, berry gordy jr. borrowed $800 from family members and founded the most successful black-owned music company in the world. you know it -- motown, the home of legendary groups like smokey robinson & the miracles, the supremes, the temptations, the jackson 5, and so many others. here in the studio this afternoon, the man behind the motown sound,

>> thank you. it's a pleasure being here. >> does it ever get old hearing, you know, getting all those accolades, hearing about what you created really from nothing? >> no, it never gets old. and i appreciate it every time that i hear it. >> so, tell me the truth. sometimes when you hear the stories about what you've -- you know, all the people whose careers you got started, all that wonderful music, some of it hear that and you think about all those people and see them, does it ever surprise you just how much you have managed to stuff into one lifetime? >> yes, i -- you know, i owe so much credit to so many people, and i think being grateful just kind of makes you... and appreciative, you know, it's something.

the people that i've had. and while i may have given them the key, they, you know, opened a door many times, and i think that my biggest contribution was -- outside of the music world or the entertainment world -- was to work with the individual people and try to give them values and -- so they could become some of these people. >> mm-hmm. okay. >> and one time, i was the known -- i was the best writer, the best producer, best everything. and they surpassed me. >> but that's what a parent wants, is it not, in a way? >> and they still went on to do great things that -- that i'm still getting credit for, you know, like stevie, you know, going to washington, fighting for civil rights, and the

signed to motown. >> really? no, i didn't know that. >> and so we had three albums that we put out by dr. king, but i was so impressed. and so i'm so humbled. and so these things happened because of so many reasons, and dr. king came to me, and i was just thrilled and overjoyed. he said, "well, your music is doing emotionally for people what we're trying to do intellectually." >> okay. >> "it's bringing people together. it's doing things. it's helping me with my job. and i just wanted to meet you." and of course, i wanted to melt through the floor. >> uh-huh. >> and so it's things like that. so, i never think too... >> much. >> ...much of myself or i'm just... >> a conduit for a lot of...?

you know, i'm still a kid. i love joy and i love building things, and if it happens to be people, fine. if it's a song, fine. if it's a broadway show, fine. if it's a movie, fine. >> could you do today what you managed to do with motown all those years ago, do you think? to build from scratch? >> well, today would be very different because the stakes are higher world is so big. we have so... you know, we're around the world. we can tweet something today, and billions of people can see it, so the times are so different. >> mm-hmm. >> unless you understand that and really kind of study the... you know, i mean, we can communicate with billions of people, but we have less personal communication. >> yeah. and a lot of people don't even

>> yeah. so, it's a lot... so, it's a different time. the stakes are higher. the world is different. it's much more dangerous. but we had those same kind of... the same kind of ideas that they need now to look at the whole thing, like our question was -- in our play is "what's going on?" what's going on in the world? and it became -- >> that was a song, wasn't it? [ laughs ] >> yes, it was. it was a major song! but that was the question. the answer is... hand." so it was pulling people together. and that's what's needed always, but especially now, when the stakes are so high, to get back to that level of understanding -- >> sort of level of discourse and open-mindedness. >> open-minded -- with listening. listening and realizing that people are beautiful, and they want to be beautiful. they want to get together. if you look at back when we did what we did, you know, it was

the street because we didn't have the technology and stuff. but now, if you look at any television show, you know, i mean, you may not be black, but you look black. >> mm-hmm. >> so... [ laughter ] anyway... no, the point is that you can't turn on, you know, a commercial, news, without seeing some black people. so the pro made, you know, and i'm so happy that we're opening back here in new york -- >> and motown, i think, was, for a lot of people, that was a big part of that. we're going to take a break, and when we come back, we are going to talk to you about what it feels like to watch your life play out onstage. okay? so we're going to take a break for that. >> okay. [ laughter ] >> when we come back, we, in fact, are going to meet the

"motown: the musical." let's feed him to the sharks! squuuuack, let's feed him to the sharks! yay! and take all of his gold! and take all of his gold! ya! and hide it from the crew! ya...? squuuuack, they're all morons anyway! i never said that. they all smell bad too. no! you all smell wonderful! i smell bad! if you're a parrot, you repeat things. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do.

>> we've been talking to the legendary berry gordy, the founder of motown. and now the story behind the hits is back on broadway, motown: the musical." joining us at this point is chester gregory, who stars as berry gordy jr. onstage. thank you so much for being here

>> now, i'm going to defer to the real berry gordy first. what does it feel like to watch your younger self running across the stage every night? [ laughter ] >> it's delightful. it brings back such memories to me. when i'm in the audience, you know, people are bringing back their own memories and so forth, and they don't realize that i'm just as excited every time i see it. >> and of course, you know, this is another one of your many creations, the musical. >> >> was it difficult to get that, you know, to decide what would go into the story of your life, the story of motown? >> well, we put everything in there at first, but it... it was a couple days long, you know. [ laughter ] >> okay. >> we had to make the story -- the purpose of the story,

artists to be themselves, which was really great, because i thought i was extremely smart when i started it, but i realized that everyone is smart, you know, and when they got the freedom to be themselves, and just like my other self over here... [ laughter ] we've talked for a while, and he's been so phenomenal in the part, and looking at him, i sometimes have been that suave, baby." [ laughter ] >> so, chester, what is it like to know that at any given night, he may be sitting right there, looking up at you being him? >> right, right, it's an incredible amount of pressure. but yet at the same time, i was pleasantly surprised that when i got a chance to meet him -- i met him for the first time at the la opening, and it was because of my friend allison semmes, who plays diana ross, and my friend jarron muse, who plays marvin gaye. and so we were in la, and they

i was like, "i can't get in." they said, "okay, wait, we got you." so i got a chance to meet him. and after i got a chance to meet him and see how warm and down to earth he is, that helped calm my spirits. so by the time i got a chance to audition for him and got a chance to portray him every night, i just -- for me, i just pretend he's out there every night, and so i just do my best. and, you know -- and there it is. >> so you're always on the top of your game. >> i'm doing the best i can every single day. you know, every day is different according to how you feel, but i doiv show. >> is it more difficult, you think, to play a living legend than just some character that's made up? >> absolutely, but he gives us freedom to emulate him, as opposed to imitation. and, you know, that's not what we do as actors. we're not imitationists. i want to emulate his existence, and then live in the truth of that moment and apply my own experience and what that means, and then just give it and see what happens. so, you know, of course i have his book, "to be loved," right

videos of him and footage and everything. and then you have to trust that the research is done, and then you allow yourself to live in that truth. and he allows that. he's like, "yeah, just be honest." >> yeah, he said some nights he was like, "ooh, i wish i could have been that smooth." >> [ laughs ] >> you talked about, you know, what you had to cut out to make this a one-night experience and not a week-long experience. and of course you included the which i think a lot of people over the years have been wanting to hear that. was it difficult to let all that personal stuff out on stage? >> oh, yes, in a way, but not too much for me. because, you know, my father taught me a long time ago, "just be a great person, and god is inside you, and whatever you do will be right."

kind of the way i felt, you know? and sitting there watching my life portrayed, and i feel that, you know, there are so many people like me, and it goes back to the fact that i wanted all music -- all people to hear my music. white, black, jew, gentiles, rich, poor, cops, and the robbers. >> [ laughs ] everybody. radio stations to get them to play it, 'cause they said, "it's race music, it's black music." and i said, "no, it's music with black stars. it's music, you know? it's really music, you know?" and so one disc jockey, a guy named tom clay, who was in detroit, played it for the first time. i talked him into it, 'cause i was a nuisance. >> but sometimes that's what it takes. >> and i believed. and i believed in the fact that white people are the same as

and no one could ever prove me differently, and they still have not. >> yeah, well, no, you were right about a whole lot of things, weren't you? [ laughs ] >> well, yeah, and lucky about a whole lot of things, too. 'cause people that followed me and believed in me, and coming up, i was a failure at everything till i was 29, you know. and people said, "you're just wrong. you're just outside the box. you're always trying to do done for a reason? 'cause it doesn't work." >> you just hadn't found the right thing, apparently. >> well, no, it was always -- the people were all the same. and if the reason you asked me about the embarrassment in the show and the love scene, i said, "well, look, i'm a normal person. and if i have this problem at this time, a whole lot of other people in the world have that same problem." so i was never too embarrassed, you know, except when diana came

was so happy that i put myself -- 'cause she remembers that night. >> uh-huh. >> whoo. [ laughter ] >> okay, so now we're getting down to it, huh? >> yeah, she remembers that night. and she said, "black" -- she still calls me black -- she said, "i thoroughly enjoyed it, mainly because i got a chance to" -- >> that night or the play? >> no, the night -- the night of the play. the night of the opening. [ laughter ] that night, we didn't say too much that night. >> okay. all right. know? >> all right. >> wasn't nothing left to say, huh? [ laughter ] >> wasn't nothing to say but just cover my head. cover my head. but no, i turned out to be just a glorious thing because so many people have come up to me and said, "oh, my goodness. thank goodness. i thought i was the only one," you know? >> you know what, my director has -- she had a great question for you. she asked me to ask you, are

>> well, i.... when you're a dreamer, you dream everything, and you believe everything is possible, and you dream that. yes, there were many songs that, when you heard them, i said, "this has got to be a hit. it's a hit idea." >> every time you said it, they were? >> no, no, not every time i said it. because with the supremes, you know, it was five years before they got a hit. >> i know, yeah. >> and i was in love with diana, as you know, because she was such a person that believed in her down. so it took five years, and we kept telling them, "no, they're stars." >> they were stars. >> but we just haven't got the right thing. it's our fault. and a lot of this is in the play. i just say, "if they don't get a hit, it's our fault, not theirs. 'cause they do everything we say." >> and the play started on the 14th and runs -- it's a short run. is it 18 weeks? >> yeah, 18 weeks. >> 18 weeks. "motown the musical."

[ laughter ] no, chester, i'm sorry. >> no, no, it's fine. >> you have to go and see the show, folks. it is fabulous. thank you for being with us this afternoon. it is our pleasure and honor.

>> one of the most popular summer events in queens is back. the jamaica arts and music festival is celebrating its 20th anniversary. this friday, the two-day outdoor celebration, perhaps better known as jams, kicks off with live entertainment. and it also features local artists and a whole lot of fun activities for the kids, the entire family. here to tell us more is tyra emerson, the executive director of the

thank you both for being here this afternoon. now, tyra, you're the founder of jams. >> yes. >> 20 years. my understanding is that you guys can have as many as 200,000 people at the festival. >> that's correct throughout the day. the festival is from 11:00 to 7:00, and then they actually start lining up before 11:00. >> why has it become such a popular event in queens? >> i think because it's a it has a lot of information about what's happening in queens and other places. and the music talent has been fantastic, as well. >> so it showcases the best of the borough. >> yes, it does. >> and i know, mr. crawford, that you are a talented musician in your own right, so you're the perfect person to put in charge of the music lineup. what can we expect at this

we can expect an awesome time. i mean from friday night to saturday, there will be nonstop music. there will be audience interaction and participation. it's just festival. i mean, it's really the definition of probably the largest block party in north america. >> and all kinds of music, right? >> absolutely. >> the jazz -- and are these local groups, national groups, what are we talking about? >> we have a lot of local groups. we we get all kinds of artists coming through. last year, we had, like, freddie jackson, and previous years, we've had a lot of headliners come through. and it's just an awesome time. the crowd is so appreciative of what tyra's been doing for 20 years, and it's just been something to look forward to every year. >> now, is this all free? >> yes and no. >> the entertainment.

we also have specialty blocks. we have a kids' pavilion in which everything on that kids' block is free. that's something that the festival-planning committee really wanted to make sure that that happened all the time. and then we have a health and wellness block. we have a senior citizens' pavilion, as well. >> you got some classic cars. >> and we have classic cars, which i put that together for the guys, but the girls seem to like that as well. >> well, of course we do. >> yeah, seem very educated in cars, as well. the rundown of the festival and everything, it's jamaicajams.nyc is the website. >> yes. >> and it starts friday evening, right? >> it starts friday evening at 6:00. oh, i'm sorry, at 5:00, 'cause there's a pre-show. we have a pre-show, 'cause people started coming earlier than the 6:00, so we did a pre-show for them. and then we will actually start at 6:00. >> all right. thank you both for being here. >> it's such a pleasure.

>> yes. >> thank you.

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?? welcome to the special edition of "our world with black enterprise." we are at the pga national in palm beach for the 22nd annual black enterprise golf and tennis >> good afternoon. >> here we go. >> boom. good shot. ?? ?? it's awesome to be able to