can do for you. >> the time has come. chris: president obama has worked to keep his ethnicity to keep people from seeing him. to win health care this year, president obama needs to find common ground with key republicans. is he trying his darnest not to make the clinton's mistake? the scooter case, we're learning more why george w. bush turned down dick cheney's employee to save little bitty. hi, i'm chris matthews. michael's w. assistant, michael duffy. and ceci connolly, are -- from

"the washington post." for a president known to manage his political moves with grace, it is a surprising example why this drives the country's conversation. here is the key part of the president's conversation wednesday night. >> the cambridge police acted stupidedly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home. chris: for a look at the political dust-up, listen to rush limbaugh the next morning. now white policemen are under assault from the east room of the white house and the president of the united states after admitting he had no facts . but the cops acted stupidedly. chris: why do you think? was it something personal?

>> it sounds like he spoke to the gut. i knew people inside the white house that were surprised. it's probably not a good idea to use the word "stupid." and what happened immediately after that you saw this conversation shift and ratchet up. people say barack obama doesn't like to talk about race. i don't buy that. too often in the country discussion in this race about opportune --ism. chris: kennedy was a democratic kennedy. do you think the other night he says i'm a black man, i've got to talk from that perspective? >> i think he talks different from a perspective. we have to remember that he

spent a lot of time looking at the issue of racial profiling. so it's quite possible that he cast a spotlight on a difficult situation in 24 country of something that is deserving of attention in his eyes and to perhaps cast -- to make us all think about something. but again, you know, immediately when it comes to race, people -- they go back to their corns and they take this defensive position. and opportunism seems to hang on everything. and is it possible to have a productive conversation. chris: he made himself the focus of empathy. which side are you on? do you think he knew he was doing that when he started all this? >> no because the progress that he made with the sotomayor nomination because she did convince people by her bearing by her knowledge, by her

experience that she was qualified. she was both of her race but beyond it. this is not what his political advisors wanted him to be doing up there. because it turns it into a racial conversation per se at the time when he's trying to be president of all country and feeds right into the narrative of what i call the r.n.c., which is all about fear, accusation and division. barack obama as president has to be about national unity. chris: these people in the far far left are talking about whether he's a citizen this comes up. >> the press secretary calls it a distraction. he didn't have all the facts and he was not in a position to talk about it. he was right to take it up because it's an issue that's important. and he's completely conversant. he knows exactly what to say. but i also think it came at the owned the press conference.

he's a little punchy by the end. he was talking about if it happened to him. he got off track. chris: i think he's a little fatigue. these guys get up at 5:00 in the morning and it was c58. >> if you look at what governor due -- duval patrick said, he said this is every black man's nightmare. this needs more exploring in a calm, rationnd. >> it's just a single to police that he's not completely clueless. >> he went through great lengths as a candidate to say that he could be president of all americans, he understood all the different cultures and wanted to learn about all the different cultures of america. this kind of thing sets him

back with working class whites. chris: let's talk about health care. it got delayed this week obviously. at this point he knows he's got to gain the support of a few republicans. he needs this big push. he's aware that president clinton made a big mistake back in 1993 trying to lay down the law as to what he wanted. >> plan that weapon present today is imbodied in this book as well as the bill. it's very specific. it is very detailed and it is very responsible. chris: president obama is not to make demands. >> i'm confident at the end we're going to have a bill that democrats and some republicans support. chris: the president acted like a cheerleader. go on, guys on the hill.

come on, you guys can do it, you republicans and democrats. does he need to be more of a quarterback? >> i think this is a matter of timing. i think so far the obama administration has been wise to learn that lesson from the clinton experience. clinton he may have started with that booklet but they dropped 1,300 on the lap of congress and they were not happy with that. obama tried to be respectful of the prerogatives. what you're hearing from members of congress including democrats who really do want to make this happen and are on his side is that they now want to hear about him some specific policy proposals. which tax proposal do you prefer? do you support something about an employer mandate? we now want him to weigh in on the specifics. chris: give us the three

elements that will be on the package. >> if you see a big with baurp support it will be that every american carry insurance. it will be a very gentle slowly phased in contribution so that you don't have a complete uprising in the corporate world and that you will also see slowly but surely stuff to make doctors and hospitals start earning their pay depending on how they perform as opposed to just the number of things they do. chris: mike, that's a smart dream. >> she said that's what it looked like if you have some bipartisan support. >> you do need bipartisan support. >> they know they may not get it. they may get a few out of the senate. when they talk as they have all yearlong about doing this in the senate with just 50 votes. it's not because they're not going to get republicans. it's because they're not going to get all the democrats.

you can hear him -- he said a lot more that he was against than he was for. only one or two things that he was for. he refered to the holding as insurance reform not health care reform. health insurance reform which is a signal for people who have insurance we're going to help you too. but it makes it sound much less dramatic. chris: do you think they will get a bill? >> they will get the bill but it's a question of the timing. chris: let's take a look at the matthews meter. we asked the meter to all our regular panelists when the senate vote on the final bill, will at least a handful of republicans go along with the bill? one says no. you're with the 11. you say there's likely to be a signature bill for the president with republican support. >> well, republican support may be one or two republican

members of the senate. the two big sticking points are the whole question whether there's a public plan or not. and there's going to be semantic things about that. what type of taxes and how? i think in the end, they'll be able to craft something that may be able to get a couple of republican senators to get along. chris: "the final days of bush and cheney." the repeated appeals for cheney for bush to pardon scooter little bitty. remember that he was accused of lying and obstructing justice. here's saturday night life's -- saturday night's take.

>> we also put aside time to share them with each other. so tonight, we thought during this some what acromonious political season, why not share our valentine's with everyone? spread the joyce of work. for instance here's a former member of my staff scooter little bitty. roses are red, violets are blue, if i go to jail, you're going to go too. happy valentines, scooter little bitty. do we even know anyone known scooter libby. chris: what really went on between cheney and little bitty and why president bush turned cheney down. tell me something i don't know. we'll be right back.

chris: welcome back. "time" magazine's cover story brings back the final day of the bush-cheney era. as you recall libby was dick cheney's right hand. and the investigation about who first revealed that valerie plame was a c.i.a. undercover agent. a c.i.a. found that libby on tructed justice and lied under oath. president bush repeatedly dodged a question about his pardon. >> i felt the punishment was severe. so i made a decision that would

commute his punishment. a serious fine and probation. as to the future, i rule nothing in and nothing out. chris: so why did bush refuse to go further and issue a pardon? time magazine had a advisor, i'm sure president bush felt there was a coverup. >> bush felt scooter libby bunt remorseful. that was important to bush. bush did an own investigating. he did an own investigating. decided that he lied to the grand jury. he felt that was completely unacceptable. and they laid that on there on purpose. and finally as this source suggested, i think there was some concern that perhaps whatever they question they

would probe, they really weren't sure if they were protecting each other. chris: they were both part of the coverup. >> this is maybe the most important partnership. this is the only time we've been able to get inside of it and listen to them fight. and they fought really right down to the end -- chris: and this is almost a physical confrontation. you reported that there was almost a point where cheney was about to crossed the line. literally the relationship was supposed to fall apart. >> when he told him i'm not going to give him a pardon. they were astonished with how stunned -- stricken i guess un-- cheney made it very clear he wasn't going to accept that decision. it pops back up on the agenda. bush makes a de addition --

chris: the only motivation of the eminence of scooter libby would have lied to anybody was to protect his boss. there was no real motive except to protect cheney. he could have taken the fifth if it was about him. >> that's exactly right. i think this story shows is that there was another white house. chris: a cheney white house. >> yes, there was a cheney white house and the bush white house. the cheney white house was substantially in control and only after his presidency is george w. bush trying to get his presidency back. and kudos to "time" for being there and helping examine that process because george w. bush is trying to show that he had independence from a guy that we all know really was running things. chris: wow. you guys -- we're coming this from washington. dick cheney is a presence in

this city now. george bush has left. he's gone back to texas to write his memoires. dick cheney has unusually for a vice president stuck around. he's playing rear guard. >> i think in a sense both bush and cheney are thinking about their legacies and the history writing that east taking place right now. and they're aiming for somewhat different histories to be written. and that's what's going to be the fascinating thing to study and to have a better understanding of that period in our history. chris: this the ladder days, the president dodged the question of scooter libby. he never got into the issue of purmry or obstruction of justice. >> what he showed is restraint. and that's probably is prudent. one of the things i wondered in the way that it outlines how the president conducted his own investigation asked the right questions and asked a lot of

questions. i coldn't help be wonder if he would have shown the same juris prudence in the lead-up to the iraq war. chris: do you think cheney would keep quiet from now on? >> i think the relationship is quiet. the relationship is much more bigger than the fate of little bitie. chris: libby's disbarred. he has lost his professional status. and he's standing up. >> it's a partnership born forged in loyalty. chris: you have to respect loyalty at some point. but then at some point, you have to within der about disloyalty the other direction.m as a luxury item,@ you're not alone.

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chris: welcome. michele, tell me something i don't know. >> the white house has been pushing for insurance reform as they're now calling it is using the mt. rush more argument and really appealing the thoughts of legacy where some of the veteran lawmakers are involved. think about your name to this landmark legislation. that's what's sort of being whispered in their ears. >> tim geithner who's the treasury secretary, he survived the backlash of all the bailouts that he helped orchestrate. but now he's got to rerg late wall street as a wall streeter. and whether he is a good treasury secretary will depend

in the next six, seven months. chris: ceci. >> he hasn't been able to play golf that much. i wonder is he preparing for a tournament? wants to meet tiger woods. what they tell me is he feels quite enclosed in the bubble and the simple thing to get out and walk is tough to do. even walks around the grounds can cause a security stir. part about what he likes hitting the links is that he gets to get out and walk. chris: does anybody play him? >> marvin. he caddied for the masters. chris: great. >> here are a couple of namentse you haven't heard but you should. one is miguel diaz and sam kaplan, these are two minnesotans who are going to be ambassador. miguel diaz is a theologian,

cuban-born. he's going to be the ambassador to the vatican. chris: he's pro-life. >> well, he's [speaking foreign language] . and sam kaplan is a very important donor but more important he was an original support of keith ellisson. and they're sending kaplan and his wife to morocco. he is very shrewdly working in america and global culture and trying to bridge them. chris: great reporting. next big question -- does barack obama watch his cloud on capitol hill? be right back. it's july 15th, and i'm erika,

with a recap of the past 24 hours on royal caribbean's liberty of the seas. debbie from rhode island laced up the gloves in the fitness center. brooke molloy floated with friends through jamaica. late night explorers climbed mountains under the stars. and finally, jose rodriguez rocked the house in the karaoke club. that's the news. i'm erika, cruising with royal caribbean. why aren't you?

chris: welcome back. this week barack obama began the second half of his first year in office somewhat rock ily. our big question has the president lost his clout with congress? >> probably not. it might be difficult to work with him, but they're going to need him. >> no, he hasn't. not with democrats. >> c.c.? >> not yes. he had a rough patch.

but there's plenty of time. >> the democrats need them. he needs them. chris: grand slam. thanks fire fighter a great round table. that's the show. thanks for watching. see you here, next week.

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