himself? the white house called him, he didn't call the white house. >> i want to hear all the stories. >> i don't know how many stories you're going to hear because they done swore them to some kind of secret code. >> did you go to an all-colored school, cecil? >> i didn't go to school, mr. president, i grew up on the cotton farm. >> don't you lose your temp we are that man. it's his world, we just live in it. >> about time you go ahead. >> you looking for some help? >> you done broke our window, you done stole our food and now you're asking for a job. >> i know how to serve. >> they said this new white boy's smooth. >> i'm thrilled to be working with all of you over the next four years. >> dr. king, what did your daddy do? >> he was a butler. the black domestic plays an important role in our history.

>> something special is going on here. mr. president? >> i know your son is a freedom rider. >> turn the bus! >> i never understood what you all really went through. you've changed my heart. >> this there's this whole black power movement going on. i give you the green light to gut those sons of bitches. >> they're going to kill you. >> you need to go. >> what? >> get the hell out of my house. >> sorry, mr. butler, i didn't mean to make fun of your hero. >> everything you are and everything sufficient because of that butler.

>> rose: joining me now is lee daniels who directed the movie, danny strong who wrote the script and two of the film's stars, forest whitaker who plays the butler and oprah winfrey who plays his wife gloria. welcome one and all. >> thank you. >> rose: i'm pleased to have you here. you, sir, are at your creative best. congratulations. >> thank you. >> rose: you, magnificent. >> thank you, sir. >> rose: but you, sir, are just brilliant. this is an extraordinary performance over a span of years to capture this person, these ideas, all that you have done was really an extraordinary achievement. >> thank you. thank you for that compliment, that's very nice. thank you. >> rose: how difficult was it for you? >> it was a challenge. it was one of the most challenging roles i ever played. you know, i think because of the sort of being able to communicate without words, you know? the process of going through all these years and the aging

process. trying to carry these experiences that were painted in the script by danny and lee inside of myself so that you could feel them and know them and they'd be a part of me. and then understanding the history so i could take that tapestry and pull it together. but it's a love story, so i guess trying to navigate the feeling that i had for my wife. >> hello. (laughter) >> and trying to make my life not to make her upset. it challenged us and it challenged me and my son. yeah, but it was about that. >> because it's also for me a love story. a love story through the eyes of this man and one of the reasons i said yes to lee after he was relentless in asking me to do it is because i wanted the tapestry, the depth, the broadness of that communication

between a husband and a wife and particularly a middle-class black family to be seen by the rest of the world. it's something we don't see very often and i think that women have been the backbone. you know, regardless of race during that period for a number of reasons and i wanted to be able to show that in that one character. >> rose: and what did you hope to bring in this script? what story? >> i wanted to tell the history of the civil rights movement. it seems to me that that movement has not been properly told in hollywood. and you have world war ii, you've got the holocaust. these are extremely famous, they're part of our national consciousness and a lot of that have is because of movies and t.v. shows that have been made about them. there haven't been that many movies made about the civil rights movement and it's a shame because it's one of the most important dynamic and dramatic events of the 20th century. it deserves to have many movies made about it. for me i just really wanted to try and push that into the

national consciousness the way that these other events have been dramatized. >> rose: the scope of history is told in intimate personal stories. >> exactly. exactly. that's the joy of doing "the butler." because the butler is in the white house and you can see him in meetings where decisions that are going to affect the entire nation are being made and through his family you see how those decisions are played out in the lives of everyday americans so it seemed like if we could make that work it could be a powerful film. >> rose: who first saw the possibilities of this as a movie? >> lars us skind, amy pass squall from sewn fwhoi told lars iskind and "spider-man" and so she told lars to option it and she since passed and danny was brought aboard and then i was brought aboard and it was between me and steven spielberg, can you believe it, charlie? >> rose: so steven said "i'm

busy"? >> i don't know what happened. >> rose: this is what they do in hollywood. "if steven is busy --" (laughter) >> i wouldn't mind taking second place for that. (laughter) very good. >> rose: steven's busy, so go to lee. so they go to you. what's the challenge? >> the challenge is trying to get the budget to meet this epic story. because the studios will only give african american dramas a specific amount of money and danny's script spans decades and so that's a lot of money. so we were going to do it. the movie was green lit, we were going do it for a budget and i couldn't cram it into the budget that the film deserved. so it was frustrating and oprah -- i said "oprah, we're green lit with the studio. we're doing a movie."

"i don't know. i don't know about this." and solarz iskind passed away. >> i didn't get you would 6--- believe you would get money for this because i had done "the great debaters." what he is saying is really true. it's very difficult to get a black drama green lit in hollywood because the theory is black dramas don't work. >> lara passed away. she had cancer. and on her deathbed, literally, she was raising money for film. literally on her deathbed. and she hadn't raised money before because she was a studio girl. she went from studio to studio. she said "lee, how do you raise money?" i said "come with me, sister." >> rose: been there; done that. >> so we went from one investor to the next and i think that after her death a lot of the

investors that we went to felt guilty and rose to the occasion and -- >> and if not guilt a sense of respect for her >> exactly. >> i would say respect. >> and love. >> oy, this is republic's show. >> rose: "what charlie meant to say." >> she left enough money in her film to keep her company open so this could get made? isn't that amazing? >> it's so interesting, guys, we had a screening in new york last night-- recently, and what was interesting to me, when you were talking about her i really do believe this so don't call me cuckoo, i do believe that all of us are energy and even when you pass on you're energy. something that you were talking about her last night, i thought lara is all up in this and she is going to be ushering this film in a way that we really

can't imagine. so i think the spirit of her has been throughout this film and we're going to fill it -- fill the spirit of her, really feel the spirit of her once this is released. i think she's all in it. >> rose: so you got the money. you got the script. >> yes. >> rose: you've got to get actors. >> yes. >> rose: so forest whitaker came to you instantly? >> with forest, you know -- with forest this is -- so beautiful. and it's a testament to who he is as a person and how he -- >> and an oscar winner. >> rose: i was going to say. thank you. >> he came in to audition. and i was humiliated asking him to audition. i said "dude, you know, you are who you are but i have to see how the --". >> rose: you're idi amin. >> yes, let's see if idi amin and oprah have chemistry. >> rose: >> the two of them came in and it was magic and i grabbed oprah

and i said "this is it." he must have thought "what the hell is going on?" and i grabbed him and said -- >> yeah, we were in a little suite at the chateaux and after we had done a few lines together and i think we did -- we rehearsed the birthday scene. and lee pulled me into the kitchen and he goes "i think he's the one." yes! (laughter) i go "i so want to work with forest!" i had wanted to work with forest before. did you know this, charlie, that when he was nominated for -- i think you would already been nominated when i called you, right? >> yes. >> rose: >> for "last king of scotland." i just called him up in that way that, gee, i would love to meet that person. i'd seen "last king of scotland." and i called him up and said "i just admire you so and i would love to meet you and your family and could you all please -- would you like me to have a party and would you come to my house and bring your trends so that we could celebrate you

whether you win the oscar or not? i also met lee this that way. i saw "precious" and i called lee -- (laughter) i called lee -- i got lee's cell phone number and i called lee and i said "hi, lee, this is oprah winfrey." and he goes "i'm at the sun dance film festival, we just won the best award." i said "why is your damn cell phone on?" so i love calling up people. >> rose: i want to meet you. >> i want to celebrate you. i call him just to say i want to celebrate you. >> charlie, the reason why i answered, because it said "unknown." and we talked about this the first time you interviewed me. "unknown meant that's money. so i thought that's possible money for my next movie. hello? as i'm walking up the stage to get my award. crazy. >> rose: if it said "oprah" you would have answered it, too. >> i don't know. i don't know if i would have believed it. i would have thought it was a prank or something. >> rose: did you have any sense

of the power of the script and the story or did you clearly understand that if we got this right we could have something here that transcends movies and transcends -- >> i think i felt that way when i read the scrip. you know, i -- the motion of the movie, the historical moments that were so reflected in our emotions because they're so connected to what's going on. i thought if we could accomplish that, if he could accomplish that then we could do something special so i started just like bearing down on it as an artist to try to understand how to convey that. >> rose: even though this is a script, did you go in search of eugene allen? >> i did. i talked to charles allen. i talked to people who worked with him. i had some confidential conversations with some butlers. i talked to a number of individuals all the way through and i started working with butler coaches to understand just the mentality and the philosophy behind it. i spoke to to some civil rights leaders that i wanted to just pick their mind a bit about what they were thinking and then started thinking about my own past and my grandparents and my

great grandfather because i knew my great grandfather and my father, they lived to very old ages in their 90s both of them. so i was just remembering some of the incidents that i lived in in my life, too, and started to combine these things together to make something true. >> rose: how about gloria for you? capturing -- >> well, i was a little nervous about this because i hadn't picked up that instrument in 15 years. and i had just -- >> rose: an acting instrument? >> the acting instrument. i put hit in the corner and said "well, those days are gone, and wasn't that nice?" and -- >> really. >> yes! >> rose: it's amazing to think of. >> yes, i had. >> that's incomprehensible! >> well, i had. because ied that day job that sort of took over my life. and it was always difficult to get someone to say yes, i can do the movie but can you do it between july 12 and august 14 because i have to be back for the september -- start of a new season. ". so i just threat go and also my

disappointment over "beloved" and when i started talking to lee about this he said "you need to come back, you need to act." he sent me several scripts. (laughter) which i shall not mention. some -- >> rose: why not? (laughter) >> i sent her a script about a serial killer? >> i was going to play the serial killer. not only am i not going to -- i said "i'm going to burn this script and do not send me anything like this again and if you do that your karma is going to change." >> rose: hay, dude, what are you doing? >> what are you doing. >> but who would have been she would have -- >> he said "i want people to lose the oprah thing." well, i don't have to go all the way to being a serial killer to lose the oprah thing. hello. there's some character in between! can you believe it? so i was a little nervous. i called -- he suggested that i call susan batson, the acting coach. >> rose: right. >> she came and had a session with me because i was saying -- >> rose: this is before you decided? >> this is before i decided and

she came and i had a session with her and she -- in 20 minutes i was exposing all of my stuff and she said "you still have it. you have to vulnerability, you have to spaces where you can go inside, you can reach and you can find gloria. you have to do the work to do it." because i started out saying to her "it's just a small role." it's a small role! and there's no such thing as a small role! yeah, no such thing as a small role. and she to me represents -- she's a composite of that era. you know the night we screened -- we had a screening and none of us said -- charles allen, the son of eugene allen, had not seen the film before. and he stands up at the screening at the end and -- because gayle is hosting this screening and she says "mr. charles allen is here, tell us what you thought?" and he stands up and the first thing he says "well, you threw my mother under the bus."

and then we all go, oh, lord, what's he going to say? he actually liked the film. he loves it. and i said "well, i certainly took some liberties with your mother." his mother is smoked a couple packs of pal mall everyday and i don't think -- she wasn't a drinker, not to that extent and certainly wasn't tiptoing out with the next door neighbor because the next door neighbor wasn't terence howard. so we took some liberties because what she loved to do was watch "the price is right" and watched the soap operas. so -- >> rose: you got that. >> you got that. >> rose: so you finally said yes because something -- >> because -- >> rose: because this was a busy time in your life. own -- >> i was trying to build a network and i said to lee no, no no. and finally said yes because, you know, my entire life i've been a student of the history. when i was a young girl i knew all of langston hugh's poems. i knew all of -- and that's a

lot of poems. all the major poems i knew and i knew the entire "god's trombones" and i knew sojournny truth speeches and fanny lou hamer speeches so i was an orator and the idea of knowing who you are for me had been the reason i can sit in board rooms and be the only woman and be the only black because it reminds me of that line from a maya angelou poem where she says "i come as one but i stand as 10,000." i stand as 10,000 because i know where i come from. i know the path that was paved for me. i know crown that i know wear holds the jewels that all of those people before me prepared for me. and i know that there's an entire generation that doesn't understand that. they don't have the context for who they are and how they got to be who they are. as, you know, african americans, young african americans. and also i just wanted to offer that story to people in a way this they could see the greater picture -- >> rose: you saw something you had to do in the end?

after all this, i've got to do this? >> yes, and, you know, my whole work is about opening the heart space for people and i said, wow i think here's an opportunity that you can show people something in a way that they can see the best of themselves. yeah. >> rose: what was the hardest part for this? you've got your cast now. you've got everything in place. >> really making sure that everything is from the shoes to the makeup to the -- their accent to their head movements, everything is honest. that everything is really, really honest and keeping it honest and that's a hard -- that's the hard -- >> he's a truth seeker. may i say this about him? he is the kind of director -- i mean, that's why every actor that ever works with him loves him. because he will not let you get away with a split second of anything less than the truth. he literally -- >> rose: has to be authentic and true? >> not only truth. not only truth. he will call you over to the

monitor -- this happened to me. call you over to the monitor and say "look at that. see where she's leaning in right there? that's good. that's good. see where she took a breath." i'd say "yeah." he'd say "drop the breath. too much drama." >> rose: this is also about family. a lot about family. tell me a little bit about that. >> i think it's exemplifyed in the father/son relationship. our relationship is more about the absence and my not being there for us and it causes a lot of problems for her and for the family. but with my son, i'm trying so desperately to keep my family together and to let my family have all the things they need and desire. and it's my quest for my son to live a better life than what i did. and he -- he makes a decision to do a pursuit of trying to pursue a great life, too. but in his mind doing that he has to confront what he considers the demons of the country or the demons of social injustice, you know? so i -- my motivations are all

about caring, in a way. i care so much for my son. i don't want them to go to fiske i want him to stay out of the south. i know what's happened in the south. i want him to stay right here in washington, d.c. at howard university so i can protect him. i say in the movie "i can't protect him there." he goes there to this place and then he starts this movement of what i taught him, because of the way my character was a trailblazer. he left this sharecropper's town and went across to washington, d.c. and then the white house. my dad -- i used to think about that, too. he left texas and went to los angeles, you know? and my family, that was unheard of, in my family you stayed right there on the farm. you can put a trailer on the land but you don't go. in that case my grandfather's not coming to visit you, you know what i mean? you've got to make a big step. i've made this step, now i'm here, and he goes and starts to confront these things and i'm thinking, hey, stop, you can be okay. you can have education and family. you can have a life, you can have a home.

he's like "no, dad, everybody deserves a life, everybody deserves a home. i can't be happy inside myself unless i know these rights are there." so we explore this civil rights movement in this personal way. that's what's brilliant about what you did, lee. i'm always arguing and dealing with him over the real moments of history that, like, give us an emotional understanding of the civil rights movement of what's happening, what's occurring. and that's kind of a movement of our family. and ultimately the reconciliation of our family. the kind of coming back together because of the deep love, the foundation of who we are. >> rose: and coming to truth. >> coming to truth. and appreciation. >> rose: and you see that -- there's a moment in which one of the sons goes off to vietnam. you can't protect him in vietnam. >> yes. >> rose: and the agony that brings to you. >> yes. >> it destroyed our family in some ways. for just a moment we lost our heart. because we'd already lost one son because he left. i had to draw a line in the sand to force him to do what i

considered the safe and right thing. now we lose our son and she starts drinking more and more. >> i love that line that's in the voiceover where you said "you lost them to vietnam and you didn't even know what that war was for. you didn't even know what that was all about." >> rose: this is a scene reflecting some of this. this is when cecil gains, played by forest and his son louis, take a look. >> what's the name of that movie honey? >> "in the heat of the night." >> "in the heat of the night" with sid any port yay. >> that's a white man's fantasy of what he wants us to be. sflp >> what are you talking about? he's breaking down barriers for all of us. >> by being white. by acting white. sidney poitier is nothing but a rich uncle tom. >> look at you, all puffed up with your hat on your head covering -- coming in here

saying what you want. you need to go. >> what? >> get the hell out of my house! get on out! >> i'm sorry, mr. butler, i didn't mean to make fun of your hero! >> everything you are and everything you have is because of that butler! >> rose: that's danny's brilliant line. >> you wrote that line, thank you! >> you delivered it. >> rose: we often ask men how they can write through a woman's voice and we ask women how they write through a man's voice and we ask you in terms of capturing the black experience. part of that has to do with, i assume, something is within you but also something you went in search of to make sure you had right. >> yeah, absolutely. it's the job of the writer to write characters that aren't themselves, from men writing women, women writing men. in the case of this project, i had a few powerful weapons at my disposal. one was memoirs of people that worked at the white house that i read that really helped get me

into the mind-set of what that world was like. my other big secret weapon was lee daniels. lee was an amazing collaborator on the scripts and had a great deal of influence and it was -- we just had a wonderful experience. >> rose: what do those memoirs tell you? >> oh, god, everything. that's the movie is what's in those memoirs. what life was like working in the white house. seeing these halls of power, not being able to comment on what was happening. trying to be invisible while at the same time there are events happening that you know are going to affect your life. and it's extremely dramatic and very powerful and something that i felt if we could haarness into a movie it could just really be special. >> rose: that line "everything you are and everything you have is because of that butler" is the essence of why i said yes to this film. because i believe that for my generation and certainly for my life everything that i am and everything i have that is because of that generation. i see that very clearly, have felt it in my entire life.

i'm the daughter of a maid. my grandmother was a maid. her mother was a maid and her mother was a slave. so i understand that the perseverance and just the courage, the courage that it took to get up everyday and to walk into an environment where people saw you as not even being fully human. you know, you and i -- when i did cbs "this morning" you and i have the favorite scene in this movie, that scene where cecil gaines goes into the administration -- >> rose: the butlers. >> and asks for a raise. and i think about the courage it would take to walk into that room, how many times he would have to practice what he was going to say and how he was going to say it and know that he was going to be turned down and still have the courage to stand in there and do it anyway. that was his way of being a war your. of standing up. what it took to get up every morning and still maintain your values, take care of your family

and be a man and know that the rest of the world didn't see you that way. that's real courage. >> rose: he basically says in this scene -- you tell me, forest. what does he say to the guy when the guy says "well, i guess you can leave." >> the black butlers aren't paid as much as the white staff and i think that we do the same job. >> and he says "well, if you feel that way you can leave." >> rose: and you said "i knew you'd say that so i asked the president." and you'd left -- not left the room, but -- not left the job. and you've seen him say it before so when you go in and he says that you say "i knew you'd say that. i told the president and he said perhaps you two should talk about it." (laughter)

>> it turns everything around. >> it does, doesn't it? >> i was blown away when i was interviewing -- >> this is our favorite scene. >> i was just blown away when i was interviewing people that worked in the white house because i interviewed butlers, ushers, engineers when i found that out that the african american staff was paid 40% less than the white staff for years and years and years and it was so difficult to get promotes from houseman to engineers office. really blown away that that existed not just outside but in the halls of power as well. >> rose: the interesting story here is the son. amazing performance. and he leaves. he's cast out because of his demeanor, because he doesn't seem to have the respect and because you worry he's going to leave and you finally say "just go." and that's part of his journey. what happens to him? because in the end, without

giving the details of this, there comes an appreciation of father and son. >> yes. >> rose: and that's the journey of this film. >> that was the reason why i did the movie. i didn't do it because it was an important civil rights movie. i did it because it was a father-and-son's love story. and, you know, i have a 17-year-old son, he was 13 when we -- when i got the script and he was fighting with me. i'd say black, he'd say white. i'd say day, he'd say night. i'd say go to bed, he'd say no. when does it stop? when does it stop? you know? and so this -- it wasn't until we were doing the bus scene that i realized that this was -- that these soldiers were fighting for freedom and that this was a movie that was not just a father-and-son sorry but a bigger story. and, yeah, it was -- it was as oprah says, that ah-ha moment when you realize it's not what you thought it was, it's

something. >> tell him what happened on the bus. that realization. >> on the bus we were -- it was hot. it was a real bus, we had -- danny niece that scene. he's flirting with denzel washington's daughter in the scene. and so we're on the bus and i yell "action" and from nowhere comes the klan members and the nazis and the spitings and the -- >> terrifying. >> you were in there, too. the bus is shaking, the bus is shaking and we hear these deafening noises and the sweat and the sheets and the crosses and i yell "cut!" a little too soon, because i was afraid, got nervous. we were nervous on the bus. and i said "cut!" and it wouldn't stop. so i'm at the window saying "cut! cut!" and they wouldn't stop. and i look at danny and i look at ya ya and dave and i know at that moment that this is what