of europol and talking about how the paris attack represented a new kind of terrorism and how investigating authorities are facing a new kind of challenge. how much is encryption a problem in these investigations? >> in most of them. i mean, across the tens of thousands of investigations that europol is supporting every year on terrorism and serious crime, at least three quarters of them the challenge that law enforcement faces. >> our evidence points to the fact this cancer will kill me. >> dr. john lapook: brittany maynard ended her life with a lethal prescription three weeks after that interview. to oregon where aid in dying is legal. >> within five minutes, britney fell asleep, just like i have seen her do 1,000 times before. within with 30 minutes, her breathing slowed to the point where she passed away. >> lapook: she has become a

husband is carrying out a promise he made to her before she died. >> morely safer: bjarke ingels is the architect of the moment. a starchitect, designing everything from skyscrapers to an n.f.l. stadium. >> so you are getting what is literally a picnic in a park. >> safer: as we will see tonight, young mr. ingels designs can be inventive, can be provocative and are anything but boring. >> the roof itself is something you call a saddle shape. or in geometric terms, you call it a hyperbolic paraboloid. >> i am steve kroft. >> i am lesley stahl. >> i am morley safer. >> i am bill whitaker.

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>> leslie stahl: the argument over encryption between apple

the world is facing a far more tech savvy terror threat. while not that long ago, al- qaeda often handled its communications by going back to the stone age, relying on mules and couriers. the islamic state, or isis, proved it can be done with just a push of a button using everyday tools of 21st century teenagers: the latest smartphones and messaging apps. the encryption debate centers around an iphone found in san bernardino, where 14 men and women were killed in a terror attack last december. but before that, there was the massacre in paris. we went there to meet the city's chief prosecutor who is confronting some of the same issues. >> francois molins ( translated ): the terrorists are able to communicate with total impunity. >> stahl: francois molins is the head prosecutor of paris. he's investigated all the big acts of terrorism here,

kosher supermarket, and now the november 13 attacks where 130 people were killed, more than 350 wounded. do you have phones in terrorist attacks that you have not been able to get into because of encryption? >> molins: oui, oui. with all these encryption software programs, we can't penetrate into certain conversations and we're dealing with this gigantic black hole, a dark zone where there are just so many dangerous things going on. >> stahl: it's not just phones. one of the things he's looking into is a texting app favored by isis called telegram which, like the new apple iphone, offers advanced encryption. how often have you run in, in all your investigations, into telegram? >> molins: yes, very often. telegram, we can't penetrate, we can't get into it.

inventor of telegram. he's a young man without a country. he's russian born but wanders the world now, in exile. he created telegram so he could communicate in complete secrecy. it has taken off, used by over 100 million people. but it's also used by terrorists now. is this a concern for you? >> pavel: oh definitely. and in our 100 million users, probably this illegal activity we're discussing are only a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the potential usage. and still we're trying to, you know, prevent it. >> stahl: telegram has become a go-to site for isis. they use it to widely disseminate propaganda like this video of the paris attackers training in syria. but isis fighters can also use telegram to send private messages to each other to covertly plan and coordinate

is there something on your site on telegram that allows any messages, emails, to just disappear, vanish? >> pavel: yes. so, in private messages we have provides you with a self- destruct timer. >> stahl: self-destruct timer. >> pavel: you could set a specific amount of time, like a few seconds, or a minute or a week, after which the message would disappear. >> stahl: durov's obsession with secrecy and security stems from his own personal history. long before telegram, he was known as "the mark zuckerberg of russia" because he built a popular equivalent of facebook. but in 2011, when anti-putin marchers filled moscow's streets, the kremlin demanded he take down the organizers' sites. >> pavel: and i refused to do that publicly. and the next day, i had armed

>> stahl: wonder why. >> pavel: and tried to break into my apartment. >> stahl: there was continual pressure on him to hand over users' personal data, culminating in 2014 when, under kremlin duress, durov was ousted from his own company. >> stahl: how long did you stay in russia after that? >> pavel: not a single day. >> stahl: oh, then you fled. >> pavel: i certainly feel that i am not welcome at that country anymore. >> stahl: that's when he created telegram and encrypted it, he says, so activists could be assured that no government could ever access their personal data. he managed to leave russia with a reported $300 million, which he uses to singled-handedly fund telegram, costing him, he says, over $1 million a month. this was something that you created to allow democracy to flourish, to allow dissidents in russia and in other countries to

and then all of a sudden you find out that-- this terrorist group uses your site for completely different reasons. >> pavel: yeah, we were horrified. >> stahl: there's an irony there. >> pavel: there is. but you know there's little you can do because if you allow this tool to be used for good, there will always be some people who would misuse it. >> stahl: just hours after the terrorists hit paris on the night of november 13, isis used telegram to take credit for the attacks. it was a wake-up call for european authorities. >> rob wainwright: it's the first time ever in europe that we had terrorists rampaging through our streets, first time we had terrorists wearing suicide belts in heavily populated, public areas. >> stahl: as head of europol, rob wainwright gathers and

600 law enforcement agencies. he has set up a new counter terrorism center to better coordinate all the intelligence. how much is encryption a problem generally in these investigations? >> wainright: in most of them. i mean, across the tens of thousands of investigations that europol is supporting every year on terrorism and serious crime, at least three quarters of them have encryption at the heart of the challenge that law enforcement face. >> stahl: now, what about the november 13th attack, specifically? >> wainright: from what we see, encryption also played a role in that part- and that's something that we we're digging into much deeper at the moment. >> stahl: why is it still a mystery? >> wainright: it's not-- not so much of a mystery. it's not that i can share all the details about a very sensitive investigation in public. >> stahl: we know that the ringleader of the attack, 28- year-old abdelhamid abaaoud, was a wanted fugitive who goaded

online isis magazine how easily he eluded them shuttling between europe and syria. he liked taking selfies of his exploits, often posting them online. in this gruesome video, he and his friends tie bodies to the back of a truck, abaaoud in the driver's seat: >> abdelhamid abaaoud ( translated ): we used to tow jet skis, now we tow the infidels fighting us. >> stahl: what is astonishing is that you knew who he was. he was on everybody's radar screen. >> molins ( translated ): you're right. abaaoud-- he has been one of the major targets for france and belgium counter-terrorism for many months. >> stahl: before paris, abaaoud was suspected of guiding european jihadis in attacks in france and belgium, but the attempts were all foiled. in one of them, an iphone belonging to one of the jihadis was confiscated - but it was not useful in finding abaaoud,

we've been told, and i want to confirm it, that the encrypted phone may have prevented you from getting information about the paris attacks. >> molins: that's a theory that really needs to be looked into. but to do so, we really need to be able to get into that phone. you know, i say, all these smart phones make justice blind because they deprive us of a lot of information that could contribute to our investigations. >> stahl: abaaoud was on site in paris on the night of november 13, coordinating three different teams over his phone: one group, at a soccer stadium, exploded their suicide vests outside. abaaoud and two others went on a killing spree at bars and cafes, while a third team stormed a rock-concert at the bataclan theatre and started shooting.

"the thing that we'd been fearing was coming for months, was now happening." >> stahl: the prosecutor rushed to the scene, first to the cafes sprayed the sites with an assault rifle. >> molins: we know that he participated in the commando attacks at the cafes; afterwards we see him in a video in the paris subway. and we do believe that he went maybe just in front of the bataclan. >> stahl: the prosecutor also went from the cafes to the bataclan. what he didn't know was that abaaoud was outside the theatre at the same time, amid throngs of police, standing there in his orange sneakers, apparently talking on the phone to the shooters inside. while police didn't spot him there, he was tracked down to an apartment in a paris suburb five days later, and killed in a hail

( explosion ) in a stroke of luck, police found a samsung phone one of the attackers had tossed into a garbage can in front of the bataclan, and it posed no encryption problems. >> molins ( translated ): : we were able to get information from phone communications s at enabled us to retrace the terrorists movements: where they were, where they stayed, their itineraries. >> stahl: standard text messages were found on the phone, including a final one saying "here we go. we're starting!" also found: the app, telegram. it had been downloaded the day of the attack. but you personally don't know if the attackers actually communicated via telegram to plot these coordinated attacks, or even if they used it during >> pavel: no, we have no information to prove that. >> stahl: is there anything in your mind that says, "gee, we have to have to allow law

what's going on is just unacceptable." >> pavel: you know the interesting thing about encryption is that it cannot be secure just for some people. >> stahl: isis and other terrorist groups, they just push a button on an application like yours, specifically yours, an application and it's gone around the world, like that. >> pavel: well again, this is the world of technology and it's impossible to stop them at this point. isis could come up with their own messaging solution within a month or so, if they wanted to because the- >> stahl: you mean create their own telegram? >> pavel: exactly. >> stahl: since paris, durov has been purging isis propaganda from telegram but says, if asked to unlock any private messages, he would tell the authorities that the encryption code makes it mathematically impossible, using a similar argument as apple. so you're basically saying that even if you wanted to, your hands are tied.

>> stahl: you can't do it. >> pavel: we cannot. >> stahl: so this is one of the great debates of our time. which is more important? is it more important to shut down this kind of terrorism or >> pavel: i'm personally for the privacy side. but one thing that should be clear is that you cannot make just one exception for law enforcement without endangering private communications of hundreds of millions of people because encryption is either secure or not. >> stahl: the founder of telegram has told us he thinks privacy is more important than security issues, and he wouldn't open it up even if you did ask him. >> molins( translated ): fine, that's his personal choice. but i consider that there are limits in all societies. there are limits to freedom and privacy. freedom doesn't mean you can just do anything and everything you want. and there's a duty of institutions, police and

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maynard was dying of brain cancer when she decided to drink a lethal prescription to end her life. she was just 29 years old. her decision made her a symbol in the debate about how much we should be able to control the time and manner of our own death. this is not euthanasia, when a doctor gives a patient a lethal injection. that's illegal in all 50 states. aid-in-dying, or what opponents call "assisted suicide" and supporters call "death with dignity," relies on people taking the medication themselves. oregon became the first state to legalize it 18 years ago, but because a nurse or doctor is rarely present, it's remained mostly a private affair, practiced behind closed doors. we wanted to hear from patients and family members who've experienced it and are fighting to make it legal nationwide. brittany maynard had been married less than a year when

mass. it turned out to be brain cancer so aggressive, doctors gave her only six months to live. >> brittany maynard: all evidence points to the fact that this cancer will kill me. >> lapook: three weeks before she died, brittany, bloated by medication used to control brain swelling, explained in an interview with cbs news why she was grateful to find a legal way to end her life. >> maynard: being able to take a medication that allows me to slip into a sleep in five minutes and pass away most likely within the half hour sounds a lot better to me just as a human being, as a daughter, as a wife. and i think it sounded better to my family than reading about the alternative. >> lapook: the alternative, husband dan diaz says, was for brittany to endure weeks of agonizing decline. >> dan diaz: brittany said,

death. but i am afraid of being tortured to death." >> lapook: what did she mean by being tortured, specifically? what was she afraid of? >> diaz: so those symptoms that she knew was coming for her, the torture for her would've been losing her eyesight and not knowing now who's in the room. i mean, the seizures were bad enough as it was. >> lapook: how about pain? >> diaz: pain was just constant. >> lapook: but aid-in-dying medication wasn't legal in their home state of california. so in the spring of 2014, brittany told dan it was time to pack up and head to oregon, the closest of four states where it was legal. once she became an oregon resident, brittany had to make two verbal requests, 15 days apart, to a doctor, fill out this written form, and have two physicians confirm she was mentally competent and expected to have less than six months to live. the medication often prescribed is secobarbital. a barbiturate that in small doses causes sleep, in large doses, death.

in with a prescription and gets a bottle of 100 of these capsules. each one haso be opened up individually and one by one the powder poured into a glass and the contents dissolved in water. >> maynard: this is the prescription for death with dignity. >> lapook: since 1997, more than 1,500 prescriptions have been written in oregon. over a third who requested it, never took the medication. >> diaz: i think people think, "oh well, you apply for that medication. and then, you get that. and then, you're kind of done." no, no, no. you apply for that medication. you secure it. you put it the cupboard. and you keep fighting. and we sent her packet of medical information to duke and mayo clinic and u.c.l.a. and everywhere that we possibly could to see what's out there. so you have cancer, you fight. >> lapook: brittany's tumor kept growing. invading her brain, and causing seizures so violent they left her unable to speak for hours. she feared a stroke might soon

to take the lethal medication. so on november 1, 2014, she posted this photo on facebook, said goodbye, and drank the five ounces that would end her life. do you mind sharing the last few moments you spent with her? >> diaz: um, we were um, in the room, in our bedroom. and i was right next to her. there's no, like, dark cloud looming. it-- it-- the feeling is simply of love and support. within five minutes, brittany fell asleep just like i've seen her do a thousand times before, very peacefully. within 30 minutes, her breathing slowed to the point where she passed away. >> lapook: dan diaz has kept in touch with dr. eric walsh, the oregon physician who prescribed the medication. dr. walsh couldn't talk about the specifics of brittany's case

the first time has agreed to discuss why he prescribed the medication to her, as well as to 19 others. >> dr. eric walsh: when somebody's facing the end of their life, shouldn't they be in control? shouldn't i be able to help them when they're suffering, and the burden of living becomes intolerable to them? >> lapook: we hear a lot about statistics about the oregon experience. but it's a lot of sort of statistical detail, and not a lot of emotion. >> walsh: you're right, the statistics are very dry. someone said that statistics are human stories with the tears washed off. >> lapook: tell me about your tears, perhaps once you're involved in this. >> walsh: you know, we categorize tears into a single adjective. tears of joy, tears of sorrow, tears of regret. but actually in the physician aid-in-dying, these are tears that contain all-- all of those adjectives. >> lapook: elizabeth wallner looks healthy, but has advanced

surgeries, radiation and months of chemotherapy are barely keeping at bay. she sued the state of california for the right to end her life with medication. why do you feel so strongly about legislation? >> elizabeth wallner: mostly, for my son. i remember-- you know, he was 15 when i was diagnosed. and i just remember this one time i was in the bathroom and he was taking care of me while i was getting sick and i looked over at him and his face was just absolutely devastated. and i just realized in that moment that i can only take so much and my family can only take so much. this child is my knight in shining armor. >> lapook: nathaniel wallner, now 20, says he savors the time he has left with his mom, but is realistic about what lies ahead. >> nathaniel wallner: four-and- a-half years of fighting cancer,

and suffering. >> elizabeth wallner: yeah. >> lapook: i guess there's saying that, and there's feeling it for sure. and i can see it in your eyes. and then there's when the moment comes. is there a little bit of a question mark in your head about how you'll feel then? >> nathaniel wallner: i don't think so. >> lapook: you've thought about this a lot. >> nathaniel wallner: yeah. there isn't a day where i won't wish that there would be more time. but there will very easily be a day where i wish there was less suffering. >> lapook: elizabeth, who was raised catholic, disagrees with those who say aid-in-dying goes against god's will. >> elizabeth wallner: i don't believe in a god that would want me to suffer and struggle to death. i don't believe in an in- compassionate god. the only argument that i've heard that actually makes any sense is that there is some beauty in struggle. and i agree with that, there is beauty in struggle. but four-and-a-half years, end of a struggle, i'm good, you know?

william toffler, who's taken care of terminally ill patients for 40 years, worries doctors prescribing medication may not know people well enough and might miss signs of depression. he believes one reason oregon's legislation is flawed is that the state isn't required to track what happens to people after they fill their prescription. >> dr. william toffler: 90% of the time here in oregon, there's no doctor present. so there's really a shroud of secrecy under this whole thing. the only cases that come to light really aren't very reassuring. >> lapook: dr. toffler is referring to the fact that out of the nearly 1,000 people who've taken the medication, about 30 cases of complications have been reported to the oregon health authority. mostly vomiting, and six patients regained consciousness at least once before dying. >> toffler: it's basically corrupting the practice of medicine where we are no longer providers for the health and well-being of patients until they, they die naturally. but we're now actually hastening death by giving people massive overdoses.

interest for doctors. >> lapook: dr. toffler says he faced these issues with his own wife, marlene, when she was dying of cancer two years ago. >> toffler: even with breathing difficulties, like my wife had with her terminal illness. and she had that fear. i had to help her to understand, "marlene, we can get through this together. we've got medicines to help relieve the air hunger. it's not gonna be that bad." and it wasn't. >> robert williams: hi dr. walsh, how are you? >> lapook: we joined dr. walsh as he visited one of his hospice patients, robert williams, at home. dr. walsh says the majority of his patients who are terminally ill receive hospice care. >> nurse: big breath. >> lapook: ...compassionate , professional end-of-life treatment that can include anti- anxiety drugs and powerful narcotics like morphine. though usually extremely effective at keeping people comfortable, in rare instances, standard hospice care doesn't work well enough. in those cases, dr. walsh says,

palliative sedation. >> walsh: when the physician decides that suffering is intolerable, the physician prescribes a medication which puts the patient in a coma. >> lapook: which is what? >> walsh: well, usually it's a barbiturate. the nurse administers it. it's given until the person is asleep. the person sleeps for three days, five days. i've had someone live ten days, still excreting, still breathing, with the family at the bedside wondering, "when is this going to end?" >> lapook: that was the kind of death californian jennifer glass was adamant she did not want. last year, battling lung cancer, she shared her fears in online videos. >> jennifer glass: the idea that it will end by me drowning in my own lung fluid while my family watches me suffer; that is terrifying. >> lapook: but last august, when standard hospice care was no

was put in palliative sedation, which lasted five-and-a-half days. though for most people it leads to a peaceful death, jennifer's husband, harlan seymour, says it did not work for her. >> harlan seymour: there were times when she was gurgling, where she was foaming through the mo-- the mouth and nose. and i feel that she was suffering on the inside. that it was really a terror on the inside. >> lapook: and what was it like for you to watch this? >> seymour: to be there and see my beautiful wife suffer and-- and wither away and have difficulty breathing. it was heartbreaking. >> lapook: dan diaz says he's grateful his last memories of his wife, brittany maynard, are of walking these woods in oregon. >> diaz: the last time i was here, brittany was at my side. the last time i did anything here, it was her and me and with the dogs. >> lapook: before brittany died, dan promised her he'd work to make aid-in-dying legal in their

so he quit his job and teamed up with the organization compassion & choices. last september, a bill was passed permitting aid-in-dying. it will go into effect this june. elizabeth wallner says she will now be able to control not only her suffering -- but where, with whom and when she dies. something she's grateful for since speaking with dan diaz and harlan seymour about their wives' final days. >> elizabeth wallner: those deaths were really, really different. and jennifer died in pain, and in fear, and panicking, and thinking she was drowning. >> lapook: whereas brittany? >> elizabeth wallner: brittany crawled into bed with her husband. he had her arms around her, and she was asleep in five minutes. and both women are gone. and yet, the difference of what they left behind is so profound. >> lapook: and it sounds like from what you're saying your decision to perhaps take the medication will be a final act-- >> elizabeth wallner: absolutely. >> lapook: --of protecting your son. >> elizabeth wallner: absolutely. i just want him to remember me

him a hard time, and telling him to brush his teeth, and knowing that i would-- i would, you know, walk across the sun for him. >> announcer: dr. john lapook examines the fine line between practicing medicine and reporting on it. go to 60minutesovertime.comlose all that negativity. just let it go. it's just bad energy. oh, and lose those terrible black balloons they give you on your 50th. what's up with that? hey we hear you. that's why our members love aarp the magazine. it celebrates you. with fun and provocative content, from lifestyle and entertainment to in-depth reporting. and it's just one of the great benefits of membership. if you don't think "this is right for me" when you think aarp, then you don't know "aarp".

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and not just the powerful few. >> bill whitaker: it was the pioneer of modern architecture le corbusier, who said houses were machines for living in. and at the ripe old age of 41, bjarke ingels is turning out a

he is the architect of the moment, a starchitect, designing everything from skyscrapers to an n.f.l. stadium. but, as morley safer discovered, young mister ingles' designs, can be inventive, can be provocative and are anything but boring. >> morley safer: bjarke ingels is having his moment. >> bjarke ingels: when you see it from the memorial... >> safer: he's not only designing the final tower at the world trade center- >> ingels: basically we are at the middle of the ski slope, so there. >> safer: he is trotting the globe, with some 60 projects in the works. >> ingels: it's still very much a work in progress. >> safer: there's the googleplex, google's futuristic complex of domes planned for its campus in silicon valley. >> ingels: we were quite worried about that distance. >> safer: and the new lego headquarters in his native denmark. in new york city alone, he has five major projects underway, including a $3 billion highrise

that is a great view of new york so we decided to take to the hudson river to have a look. starting with this: a massive, almost finished apartment complex for all those young and restless new yorkers striving to make their first millions. tell me why you call it "the court scraper?" >> ingels: it is the unlikely child of a new york skyscraper, and if you like a copenhagen courtyard building. >> safer: but it's also a pyramid, it also could be a sail. >> ingels: exactly. eventually, we just realized we had to make it much more extreme. so it became a single tower-- to the east that then drops towards the water. the roof itself is something you call a saddle shape, or in geometric terms you call it a hyperbolic paraboloid. ( laughs ) it's almost like-- >> safer: say that three times quickly. >> ingels: yeah, exactly. >> safer: are you surprised how good it is, or how bad it is or how unique it is? >> ingels: it's paradoxical for an architect.

all the battles you lost, all the compromises that had to be made, or the-- the ( bleep )-ups that couldn't be fixed. ( laughs ) you're going to have to bleep that out. >> danish guard: attention. >> safer: the rise and rise of young mr. ingels started here in copenhagen, where he grew up. his father an engineer, his mother a dentist. >> ingels: i wanted to be a cartoonist, but there was no cartoon academy. so i enrolled in the royal danish art academy school of architecture. but then i really got smitten by architecture. we don't want any verticals. >> safer: from the beginning, ingels says he set out to disrupt modern architecture's tyrany of what he calls "the formulaic, boring box." >> ingels: when i started studying architecture, people would say, you know, "can you tell me why are all modern buildings so boring?" because, like, people had this idea that in the good old days-- architecture had, like, ornament and little towers and spires and gargoyles. and today, it just becomes very practical. >> safer: after graduation, ingels lasted just two years working for famed architect rem

his own. in 2005, he formed big --for the bjarke ingels group-- from his tiny apartment in copenhagen. >> ingels: denmark is one of the smallest countries on the planet. and there was something funny about calling a company "big." i think if i would have started probably never have called it "big." there was nothing but, a little bit of local small country humor in-- in the idea. some plaza. >> safer: almost immediately, he began to win design competitions, making a name for himself with inventive, whimsical designs for what can be often deadly boring: suburban apartment buildings. >> ingels: five years ago, we had built a few projects in copenhagen that were in a way ordinary. projects, like, housing and parking and shops and offices, but we had put them together in a way that created the-- maybe remarkable results. and suddenly, we got an

and-- and look at the site on 57th street. and-- and in a way, i had nothing better to do, so i thought, "why don't i move to new york and see how it goes?" >> safer: it went pretty well. he now oversees 300 employees between offices in new york and copenhagen. >> ingels: the more it looks like a megalomaniacal. >> safer: ingels believes his success comes from his ability to combine the practical with the fantastical. like this harbor bath in copenhagen, where swimmers can swim in the city's harbor. or how about this? the design for the just unveiled new redskins stadium, complete with a moat for all those kayaking tailgaters. >> ingels: tailgating literally >> safer: the culture at "big" is intense. ( cheers ) >> safer: but in off hours, blowing off steam dressed as their favorite comic book hero isn't uncommon. that's the boss armed with a gun full otequila.

maybe unlike certain architects that have a very particular style, where it is the auteur. it has to be the-- the design principal who-- who makes the strokes of genius. i don't have to come up with the best idea. it is my job to make sure that it-- it is always the best idea that wins. >> michael kimmelman: i think bjarke is-- is really a wonderful spokesman. for himself and for, i would say also for the possibility that architecture can really make life better for people. >> safer: michael kimmelman is the architecture critic for "the new york times." he says ingels has combined natural talent with a mastery of marketing, a so called "star- chitect." >> kimmelman: it's rare that you get architects who are really in their 30s and 40s who get to build big projects. and bjarke has figured that out partly by selling a certain youthful notion of-- of the oldest starchitect model which is a glamour and spectacle.

think is very important nowadays, which is to combine a notion of his own work with some larger social purpose. >> safer: but the thing that strikes me is a lot of people are willing to lay down billions of dollars-- >> kimmelman: billions. yeah, with a "b", yeah. >> safer: --on this kid. >> kimmelman: ( laughs ) yeah. it's true it is a gamble. he's got a lot of work coming down the pike. how is he going to make sure that work is not recycled, is original, that it's finished well? >> safer: there must be criticism by other architects. >> ingels: the more you are up to something interesting, the more it's going to inspire praise and criticism. >> safer: and in your case? >> ingels: we have a fair amount of-- of sunshine and the opposite. and i think if you were t-- if you were to take all of that to heart, you wouldn't be able to-- to-- you know, draw a line or-- or lay a brick. >> safer: ingels has become a celebrity at home in denmark, where he's designing the new

of toymakers: lego. at the topping off ceremony in october, townspeople waited in line in the rain to catch a glimpse of the new building and its architect. >> ingels: that steel is the tieback. >> safer: that fame has also and add more spectacle to his creations. this is a chimney that belches steam rings. it will go atop a green garbage incinerating power plant in copenhagen. the roof doubles as a ski slope. i mean, the building says, "come and look at me." >> ingels: yeah, since this power plant is really saving a lot of co2 emissions, it's almost a complete reversal of the symbolism of a chimney. >> safer: the idea for the outrageous structure originally started as a joke. >> ingels: normally, you would want to be as far away from a power plant as possible because it's polluting, it's noisy, it's smelly. but this-- this is so clean that you essentially have clean mountain air on the roof of it.

make sense to-- to make it a ski slope." and so, "yeah, great idea, like, let's get serious." but then, when you stop laughing, it-- it felt like, "wait a minute, maybe this is not so stupid, maybe it's actually a good idea." >> safer: never mind the starchitect appellation. you're a activist. >> ingels: if you're just reaffirming the status quo, then you are missing the point that the city is never complete. so every project we do somehow has to count. >> safer: particularly this one. the design for two world trade center, the final tower set to rise on the site. >> ingels: two world trade is roughly gonna be as tall as one world trade, but without the spire. and if you see it from here it-- it would appear as a series of seven city blocks of-- of different proportions stepping up towards the sky. >> safer: it must have been a

given that so much part of new york is hallowed ground. >> ingels: oh, yes. also because the site is so complex. there's, like, 11 subway lines. there's, like, multiple highways, service roads, power plants. like, the entire underground is like an anthill of complexity. so, i was, like, really scared that now we were getting, like, the opportunity of a lifetime, and we would be so restricted that it would be almost impossible to come up with something. >> larry silverstein: his designs can be counted on to be different. >> safer: developer larry silverstein bought the original twin towers just weeks before the attacks on 9/11, and has spent the last 14 years on the site's redevelopment. did you have any qualms about-- this very, very young architect? i mean, most architects don't come into their own until their 60s or even 80s. ( laughs ) >> silverstein: and here he is, 40 looking like 20.

for you to realize, right, we're in-- we're in another era." right. the fact that i'm almost 85 years of age, maybe it's time for me to-- to begin to-- begin- - be a little more flexible ( laughs ) when it comes to these things. >> safer: the seasoned developer who has seen it all and the young starchitect have become an architectural odd couple. >> silverstein: i find this very tough for women to walk on for anybody in heels. if you talk to our people, our maintenance people, they will tell you this has become an unmitigated disaster. >> safer: the rebuilding effort at the world trade center has been long and tortured, full of false starts and unrealized plans. tower two is no different. in 2005, the job designing it had gone to preeminent architect norman foster, a british lord no less, but the proposed tower was never built. when rupert murdoch and his son james decided to move fox's headquarters to the site, they brought in ingels.

scrapped. >> kimmelman: there was a palace coup and-- and foster was out. but foster was designing, really a different project for another client. >> safer: you were chosen over one of the world's leading architectural firms-norman foster. how did you pull that off? >> ingels: the design that had already been designed for the site was m-- was very much designed in the thinking of-- of the old financial district. and as the whole neighborhood has changed, what was needed was-- was a different kind of building. and sometimes the set up needs to change. >> safer: which it did yet again when rupert murdoch went from daddy warbucks to scrooge and pulled out of the deal to move to two world trade, leaving silverstein on the hook to find a new tenant and get the building built. >> ingels: the second we have designed them and built them, they belong to everybody. >> safer: as for ingels, he is

responsibility with the tower's design, knowing that 9/11 is forever etched in all of our minds. >> ingels: i got a letter from a brother of a firefighter that gave his life at the 9/11. and he just wrote me to say that, i see it as a giant staircase to heaven evoking the heroic stair climb of the first responders at 9/11. and to him, he thought the skyline of manhattan itself would commemorate the heroism, and sacrifice of 9/11. i couldn't claim that we had that we have thought of it like that. but now, i can't think of the building without also seeing-- seeing that interpretation. >> safer: it must be a gr-- a great honor to have gotten that commission. >> ingels: it's probably the most watched skyline in the world.d. so it's definitely a place

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