face. >> i just cant believe we've been deceived in that way. we were there for him the whole time. >> for keith's family and friends, there are so many questions. but one seems to tower above all the others. >> i want to know why and i want to know how you go from a loving husband and father, grandfather, to driving all the that way, killing your wife and then covering it up and then lying to your family for so long knowing that we had everybody doubting us and we still defended him. disgusting, he's a monster. >> all i can tell you that i had a lot of bad thoughts, wrong thought, mistakes. >> we sat down with keith hoping for answers. but as many times as we asked him why this all happened -- why did you do it? >> i -- i really can't tell you.

i mean, i don't know. i mean, just a bad decision. >> we never did get a satisfying response. so this isn't some kind of delayed mid-life crisis here? >> no. >> where you're trying to be with deanna or someone like her to have a final happy chapter in your life? >> no. julie and i were happy. >> you see how perplexing it is to hear this? it's confounding. >> that's what i told everybody when they hear the story they're not going to believe it. i have a hard time believing that i did what i did. >> and one thing he didn't do -- how about a divorce? >> never crossed my mind. >> keith now says the remorse began the moment he pulled out of his driveway. >> trying to get out of the the subdivision crying before i ever get out regretting what i've done. i probably drove 100 miles an hour all the way back hoping to get caught. >> as for the future, keith says he is prepared to die in prison.

>> i don't have anything to live for except maybe forgiveness. >> from whom? >> from my boys. >> and that's why you're talking today? >> exactly. yes. >> well, it's between you and them but i'll tell you my take on it is you've got some distance to make up. >> i know i do. i've got a lot to make up. >> of the countless things keith stole from his family, resilience was not among them. aaron and zach are closer than they've been in years and now that they know what happened to their mother they say they can finally mourn her passing and focus on keeping her spirit alive for those two little granddaughters who were the center of her yuan force. >> my oldest daughter will remember -- she talked about her everyday. we have pictures of her up in my room. as my youngest gets older we'll tell her the nascar nana story about when she was born and never let her memory die. that's all for now. i'm lester holt. thanks for joining us.

that material should be classified. i do call that retroactively classifying. so therefore it would not be publicly released. but that doesn't change the facts as i've explained many times. >> who advised you that it was perfectly legal for you to have a private server and to have this information on there as secretary of state? who gave that advice? >> i'm not going to go into any more detail than i have in public many times, as you certainly know, out of respect for the process that the department is conducting. so i'm not going to comment any further on the review. but i've been answering

questions now for over a year. i've released more than 55,000 pages of my e-mails for the public to read for themselves. i will continue to, you know, be as forthcoming as i can. and my answer that i first gave more than a year ago, i stand by. >> at the same time there was another story that clinton would love to leave behind, that tarmac meeting at the phoenix airport between bill clinton and attorney general loretta lynch. given hillary clinton's e-mail troubles, the meeting could be seen by opponents as a conspiracy. even supporters criticize the optics. on the msnbc interview yesterday, i asked about her reaction to the meeting. >> i learned about it in the news. it was a short, chance meeting at an airport tarmac, and both of their planes, as i understand it, were landing on the same tarmac at about the same time.

and the attorney general's husband was there. they said hello. they talked about grandkids, which is very much on our minds these days, golf, their mutual friend and former attorney general janet reno. it was purely social. they did not veer off of speaking about those kinds of, you know, very common exchanges. >> do you understand why many in the public, some of them are political opponents of yours, some are supporters, who thought that was a bad decision by your husband, that that was a mistake and he should have known better? >> well, i think hindsight is 20/20. both the attorney general and my husband have said that they wouldn't do it again even though it was from all accounts that i have heard and seen, an exchange of pleasantries. but obviously no one wants to see any untoward, you know, conclusions drawn. and they've said, you know, they

would not do it again. >> those two stories, the e-mails, the tarmac meeting, appearing in rapid succession, a reminder that while donald trump has had a terrible few weeks, hillary clinton has her own issues, and they all revolve around trust. the interview that's been anticipated for months happened behind closed doors at fbi headquarters for three and a half hours, according to clinton aides. it's a sign the e-mail investigation that has dogged clinton's campaign may be drawing to a close. and the tarmac meeting. >> bill clinton goes into an airplane the other day, just happened to be, a coincidence. >> attorney general loretta lynch says the meeting on her private plane in phoenix was a social call. but on friday she said she will accept whatever recommendation prosecutors make. >> i certainly would not do it

again. i think it has cast a shadow. >> the key is there cannot be any unforced error. that meeting on the tarmac was an unforced error. >> the trust issue continues to be a drag on clinton's campaign. >> a lot of people tell pollsters they don't trust me. i don't like hearing that. you hear 25 years of wild accusations, anyone would start to wonder. >> in the latest poll, clinton leads trump overall by 5 points but she trails by 16 points when voters are asked which candidate is more honest and state forward. and 69% of voters say the fact that clinton is dishonest is serious enough to be a concern. >> the problem goes all the way back to her being a first lady. from white water forward all the way to the investigation now on the e-mails, there's always something in the press, while none of them have been prosecuted in any way, voters just see too much smoke. >> and this week, in the drip-drip-drip of the ongoing

e-mail scandal, more e-mails. although clinton claims she turned over all work-related e-mails to the state department, at least 160 new ones have come to light thanks to a public records lawsuit. clinton is trying to deal with all of her problems, explaining her secrecy. >> the reason i sometimes sound careful with my words is not that i'm hiding something. it's just that i'm careful with my words. >> borrowing campaign energy from otherwise. >> i'm with her. yes, her. >> and trying to turn the trust issue back on trump. >> he's in it for himself. and he's temperamentally unfit to be president. >> but her reputation may be baked in. >> she can't do it do a speech, suddenly address it, and it's gone. it's always going to be part of the equation. and that's what makes it difficult for her. >> all right. let's bring in our panel of nbc news political correspondents here this weekend, kelly o'donnell, kasie hunt, andrea mitchell, and katy tur. welcome to all of you.

donald trump has his own reaction to the fbi interview. and he's already come to a conclusion. "it was just announced by sources that no charges will be brought against crooked hillary clinton. like i said, the system is totally rigged." andrea mitchell, even if she's exonerated, donald trump already has his talking points thanks to the tarmac meeting. >> he's called her crooked hillary clinton for white a while, so that's a been branding her in advance. the tarmac meeting was an unforced error, inexplicable. something should have told this former constitutional law professor from arkansas not to do it. something should have told loretta lynch to say, mr. president, let's go down on the tarmac, they could have walked into the terminal, any place in public. to be on that plane for 30 minutes, now no matter what happens, if she is exonerated, she will still be -- there will

still be suspicions, not only among the donald trump people, but among a lot of other people, there will be suspicions that it was politically influenced. this was absolutely a disastrous decision on their part. and it plays directly into the narrative the donald trump campaign is trying to put forth, that hillary clinton is not to be trusted, that there are one set of rules for her, for the clintons and politicians in general, and another set of rules for anybody else. the tarmac meeting fits into that. the trump campaign is seeing this as an opportunity, no matter what happened, to use it against her, saying that she's just not trustworthy. >> it's something of a pattern, right, with the clinton. you heard hillary clinton certifies talking about that there, i do something, the right things it's a grand conspiracy. the reality is they've done many things in public life that looking back they say they shouldn't have done, but they look strange.

the e-mail use in and of itself, she says i did it for convenience, i would have done it differently if i had had another chance. agents long line of things that fits into pattern that -- >> kelly, i want to play you a clip. i had loretta lynch on a few weeks ago and i asked her about the question of recusal. actually now in hindsight it looks like she was perhaps setting up what she ended up announcing. here it is. so this is not up to you, this decision? >> we don't talk about how we'll deal with the internal workings of the justice department. but this will be handled like any other matter. >> it's not necessary in your mind that you have to recuse yourself from this? >> i say let the career prosecutors and agents do their job and continue in this manner. >> she was also careful in the aspen interview. >> she left a little room. >> she said, no, i'm going to be briefed on this. she's not doing a full recusal. republicans are picking up on this. >> and they want a special

prosecutor. >> that they're not going to get. >> no. >> it's something that might still be out there. >> i think it is still within the possibility. i also think that james comey has a lot of credibility with people in both parties because he has been someone who on principle has pulled himself out of the game before. i think if he were to say that there is evidence here that should be considered, if the career prosecutors, and i think many people watching this from the outside may not have a sense of the type of long careers, regardless of who is president, of people who are involved in this. she's trying to shine a light on that credibility. politically, this is very difficult. >> so if you can't fix trust, then what do you fix if you're hillary clinton? here is peter hart, one of our pollsters with the nbc/"wall street journal" poll. he wants to zero in on another issue of hillary clinton's. >> she's never going to be able

to resolve the credibility issue. voters need to find a comfort in terms of her values and in terms of what she would do. >> he and other democrats believe her campaign is not doing enough on her own likability issue. >> the campaign ads now showing what she's done with children, which is authentic, her entire life, her entire career. they're playing in north carolina and other big states. that is showing hillary clinton as not just experienced, they've checked that box, but showing her warm, engaging, the grandmother. but there's one other thing that this whole mess has created. i was told that there was a plan, a possible plan for her to fly in on tuesday with the first obama meeting to north carolina on air force one. >> hillary clinton would have been on air force one. >> the door of the plane opens, there are the two of them arm in arm. >> not now. >> maybe they'll still do it, but it makes it hard for the

president, while this is pending, for his justice department. >> guys, i want to pivot here with more politics, but pivot to the other big issue that is hitting this campaign, the spate of terror attacks around the world, and whether this is really becoming the new normal for all of us. consider what we've seen in the past few months, all tied to islamic extremism. paris. san bernardino. orlando. the airport in istanbul. and just this weekend, the restaurant siege in bangladesh. events like these can alter the trajectory of a campaign. while hillary clinton limited her response to a written statement, donald trump again is trying to position himself as the tough on terror candidate. >> hillary is a weak person. she is a weak person. they will not understand hillary. they want her to get in so badly. the last person they want to see become president of the united

states, believe me, is donald trump. i can tell you that. >> and there are warning signs for clinton on this issue. our recent nbc news i "wall street journal" poll found trump leading clinton on the issue of terrorism and homeland security. trump has an 8-point edge on who would do a better job of standing up for america. republican senator tom cotton has been among the sharpest critics of president obama's foreign policy. joining me now is the republican senator from arkansas, tom cotton, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good to be on with you, chuck, happy independence day to all your viewers. >> absolutely. let me start with this war against isis, terrorism, et cetera. you're very critical of this administration, that we know. but let me put you in charge now. be the person in charge. starting now, what do you do? let's start with syria. what do you do in syria now?

>> well, chuck, i think the first thing we have to do is talk less and act more. the president often presents our problems with the islamic state, a pr problem or communications problem. when a politician says that, it's almost always a reality problem. we need to do more and we need to do it faster. i'll give you examples from the past. it seems like every time the islamic state commits a terrorist atrocity, the president or his senior officials announce a new policy change. we weren't striking at oil trucks, then we were. we didn't have special operations forces in syria, now we do. we didn't have troops below the brigade level, now we have them at the battalion level. meanwhile, we should pursue all potential policies right now and not wait for a terrorist attack. >> i want to play you a speech you gave in 2013. >> are we fighting too many wars? i would say no, we're fighting one war. it's a war against radical

islamic jihad. our interests is in the smallest valleys of afghanistan where radical islamic jihadists are plotting, a small cabal, a few hundred thousand dollars. >> something that mean when isis strikes in bangladesh, it is in america's isis to deal with the isis threat there, the isis threat in afghanistan, the isis threat in iraq? you see my point here. where does it stop, where does it end? >> we have to defeat the islamic state, chuck. we can't simply contain it within a small part of syria. they will continue to launch terror attacks around the world, not just in places like bangladesh and turkey, but western europe and the united states as well. they will inspire those kind of attacks. if the islamic state is losing, if they're defeated in iraq, syria, or libya, which is maybe their most well-developed, dangerous cell today, they'll inspire attacks. we're not responsible for the

domestic security of every one of our allies. but ultimately we need to deny them the safe haven they need and eliminate their leadership from the battle, like we did to al qaeda in much of the last decade. >> in many ways what you outline as foreign policy is the exact opposite of donald trump and seems closer to hillary clinton, or hillary clinton seems closer to you. how do you explain this? >> well, i can assure you i'm not very close to hillary clinton. i think she's disqualified herself as commander in chief by her cavalier attitude toward the nation's secrecy laws. she's been responsible for many of the worst decisions at the obama administration. she was literally present when we pressed the reset button with russia, when russia invaded georgia. in 2007 when every iraqi leader wanted an agreement to keep troops there, she couldn't

achieve that even though she was secretary of state. so i'm far from a supporter of hillary clinton, nor do our world views match up very well. >> okay. but you just gave -- fine. you gave the case against clinton. what's the case for trump? you just did a whole speech earlier this weekend, you didn't even mention his name. you laid out a strong case against her, but you did not make a case for him. make the case for him. >> well, chuck, the case against hillary clinton's judgment in foreign policy is very strong. to say nothing of her support for obamacare, immigration, the fact that -- >> but what's the case for donald trump? i understand the case against hillary clinton. what's the case for donald trump? >> well, donald trump can ultimately make the case for himself. but donald trump, like most americans, like most republicans, believes in protecting america's core national interests. he believes, as do i and most americans, that we aren't yet doing enough to take the fight to the islamic state, that the

intervention in libya was ill-considered and slap dash at the time and we're living with the consequences of it now, that we have to get tougher when it comes to intelligence and law enforcement practices to stop islamic terrorism. on those matters our party is largely united. i say we have the vast majority of americans with us. >> you don't come across as an enthusiastic trump supporter; is that fair? >> maybe i don't just demonstrate enthusiasm much, chuck, especially in such dangerous timings es as these. >> i understand that. this is somebody who is not running on a foreign policy that is anywhere close to what you would like to see. how do you square that in your support for him? >> well, chuck, i'm a senator. as a senator i play an important role in crafting foreign policy. it's important to remember that whatever the presidential candidates say, they will have to intact with the united states congress, particularly the senate, when it comes to crafting policy. there's been talk about our troop presence in japan and

south korea. that's not unprecedented. jimmy carter when he was president proposed withdrawing troops from there. he was stopped by the united states congress. i'm going to play that role regardless of who is president. >> hillary clinton was subject to an an interview by the fbi for three and a half hours today. given what happened with the tarmac incident with former president clinton, the attorney general, her deciding she'll accept whatever recommendation the prosecutors and fbi make, do you have confidence now in the outcome, whatever it is, regarding this investigation? >> chuck, i have always had confidence in our front line fbi personnel, as well as the fbi leadership. i think the events of the last week do call into question attorney general lynch's judgment in taking a private meeting with bill clinton, who is not only the spouse of a target of an fbi investigation, but made himself be at the target of an fbi investigation into the activities of the

clinton foundation. i think it was very unwise of her to take the meeting, very unwise of him to seek the meeting. and since she has not fully recused herself from the decision, i think it raises questions about political interference in this investigation. >> senator cotton, thanks for coming on. >> thanks, chuck. when we come back, the shifting battleground map for 2016, guess which very big and famous swing state has moved into the democratic column. as we go to break on this independence day weekend, we'll show you some of what we heard when we asked people the simple question, what does independence mean to you? >> i may not have everything that i need, but just knowing that i can think and that i can use my own power to make a difference in my family and my community and my daughter's thank you is what we say. but we mean so much more. we mean how can we help?

we mean what can we do? we mean it's our turn. to do our part. to serve you, for all you've done to serve us. ♪ if you have moderate and you're talking to your doctor about your medication... this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira helping me go further. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. doctors have been prescribing humira for over 13 years. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb.

tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. ready for a new chapter? talk to your rheumatologist. this is humira at work. welcome back. we unveil a brand-new nbc news map of this week and important changes. we'll start with the democratic leaning states. what changed? the good news for hillary clinton, florida and 29 electoral votes has gone from tossup to lean democrat. two of the last polls out have shown clinton with a double digit lead in florida, florida,

florida. also, new jersey we have moved from a lean to a likely. the guide news, pennsylvania, nevada when we had a lean democrat, tossup. more on that in a minute. this map, by the way, put hillary clinton at 255 electoral votes. 15 short of the 270 she would need. what does trump's map look like? we moved mississippi and montana republican in the column but maybe the most important thing is utah. we have moved it from likely to lean. it's perhaps the most important republican state and reliable republican state in the country but mormons have a big problem with trump and it's not guarantee he'll win there. with this map, trump would have 190 electoral votes and would need 80. what does that mean for the s o to -- tossups. maine and nebraska award them by congressional district.

new additions to this tossup map besides maine's one vote is pennsylvania and nevada. right now, trump is showing strength in reno, that's why we have moved nevada from lean to tossup. the polls are much closer there than many thought they would be. in total, this is 93 electoral votes up for grabs in the tossup category but as we told you, all hillary clinton needs is 15 electoral votes. one north carolina would do it. one pennsylvania would do it. one ohio would do it. that's a little bit scary if you're donald trump right now because if she's only one state away, and you're essentially needing to run the table on everything on this map. we'll see. when we come back, as the potential v.p. fields come i'm billy, and i quit smoking with chantix. i decided to take chantix to shut everybody else up about me quitting smoking. i was going to give it a try, but i didn't really think it was going to really happen. after one week of chantix, i knew i could quit. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven

to help people quit smoking. chantix definitely helped reduce my urge to smoke. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. some had seizures while taking chantix. if you have any of these, stop chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of mental health problems, which could get worse or of seizures. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it. if you have these, stop chantix and call your doctor right away as some can be life-threatening. tell your doctor if you have heart or blood vessel problems, or develop new or worse symptoms. get medical help right away if you have symptoms of a heart attack or stroke. decrease alcohol use while taking chantix. use caution when driving or operating machinery. most common side-affect is nausea. being a non-smoker feels great. ask your doctor if chantix is right for you.

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just to know this is what i'm made of, this is where my ancestors came from. and i absolutely want to know more about my native american heritage. it's opened up a whole new world for me. discover the story only your dna can tell. order your kit now at ancestrydna.com. >> welcome back, my next guest chance of being hillary clinton's running mate, we wouldn't hold it against you if you haven't heard of him. he's secretary of labor and grew up in buffalo, new york and before being tapped to serve in president obama cabinet in 2013. on the campaign trail for

secretary clinton, he's aggressively pushed back against donald trump even as he's been coy about whether he's being vetted or not. but we're told that secretary clinton has really taking a liking to him on the campaign trail. he joined me on friday in his personal capacity as a supporter where he's been working to convince skeptical progressives on issues like trade. let me start with trade and specifically tpp. donald trump earlier this week railing against it and then added this, we have to withdraw, okay, we have to and we should seek a guarantee from hillary clinton that she won't sign it. by the way, he's got the same position on tpp as bernie sanders who wants it in the platform, opposition to tpp. should secretary clinton oppose this and guarantee she will oppose it throughout her four years? >> secretary clinton has been very clear she opposes tpp and secretary clinton has been very

clear she has a real plan to bring jobs back to america and a plan on trade that starts with making sure we're tough on trade so if china is dumping steel or aluminum, she's called for a trade prosecutor and she also has a plan to bring manufacturing jobs and expand them here in america by investing in workers. donald trump is a fraud. he is an -- he's the outsourcer in chief justice and listening to him talk about how he's going to put america first again, he spent his entire career putting profits first. >> he's not the only one -- mr. secretary -- >> i understand that. >> bernie sanders is just as against this and his people are fighting to get opposition in the democratic platform. what do you see to sanders? >> well, again, this election is between hillary clinton and donald trump and donald trump is telling the american people that he's going to put america first on trade. donald trump has said that wages are too high in america. donald trump has said that a low

minimum wage is a good thing for america. donald trump makes his suits in mexico when i've been to a plant in ohio that uses union labor to make their suits. donald trump has said repeatedly that oh, i'm going to make america first but when you look at the reality of what he has done, he has fought collective bargaining in las vegas. the people on the trip who organize the trump hotel did it over his dead body. this notion that he's somehow going to be a champion for workers flies in the face of his record because he hasn't put america first. he's put his own profits first. it's all about him. >> let me ask you though, specifically about tpp. labor secretary perez said this about tpp as your capacity as labor secretary, you championed it and one op ed that we found in the "boulder daily" critical

to the 221st century competitiveness over a year ago. do you still believe in that version of the tpp? >> sure. this is what the president tasked me with doing, chuck, and i was proud to do it, which is we want to go to school on the mistakes and lessons of past trade agreements and build a trade regime that again the north star is the american worker, protecting the american worker and so we want to make sure when we negotiate with mexico and vietnam and others that we have the strongest protections for workers that we've ever had and that's what we set out to do and that's what i believe we have done. the president and secretary clinton have a disagreement on whether tpp has gone that far. you know, this is not the first time in the history of the democratic party there are differences of opinion where they are totally in lock step is their belief that we have to put the american worker first and we have to go to school on the lessons of history and that's exactly what we're doing in the

work that we've been doing on trade. >> look, i know you've been very hesitant about answering any v.p. questions and the vetting questions but let me ask this since it's clear your name is somewhere in the mix. tell me how you would describe the foreign policy philosophy. >> well, i haven't run a miss universe pageant and i don't own golf courses in scotland, chuck, so i don't have what donald trump has and i'm very sorry about that, but it's all about judgment and donald trump is such a volatile individual and what i have seen working with secretary clinton is that shis a steady hand, we're in the midst of a very challenging set of circumstances around the world and i need someone with a steady hand and secretary clinton with her experience with her steady hand and with her sound judgment, judgment is what it's

all about and i think she is exercised sound judgment throughout. >> let me ask you this, what do you believe is the biggest threat that faces the next administration international? >> well, again, we're continuing to confront the threat of foreign terrorism, isil and others, we continue to see nations that are having, you know, dramatic challenges and a lot of the same questions are being asked around the world whether it's in europe where you have so many people in the far right who are gaining traction, whether it's, you know, france or others elsewhere, austria most recently, as well. and so i think it's a critically important moment for american leadership and when i think about donald trump, the trump train wreck is not simply a train wreck on trade or on the

minimum wage or on immigration, it's a train wreck for american values and one of the many reasons, chuck, that i am so excited to support secretary clinton is because she understands that when you attack muslims, when you attack immigrants, you're attacking the core of american values and i think around the world, the rest of the world is looking to america for leadership, looking for us to summon the values of opportunity and optimism. i don't understand why donald trump is saying america is in decline. when ronald reagan was president he was taking out full page ads saying america is a laughing stock. i look around the world and when i travel internationally, everybody is looking to america for guidance and saying we admire you as the face of the earth in terms of the values

that we should be upholding. i think america is a remarkable leader and with secretary clinton moving forward, the challenges of terrorism, the challenges of global inequality, we got to make sure that our economy at home and our economy around the world works for everybody and not just for a few. >> there is a fuller interview that i did with tom perez you can find on meet the press n nbc.com. is it time to bring back the smoke-filled room? we'll get into that. first, here is more of what independence means to some of us. >> to be able to exercise your right of being able to vote, to be able to speak, to be able to be able to speak, to be able to exercise if you have a rel ok team, what if 30,000 people be able to speak, to be able to exercise if you have a rel download the new app? we're good. okay... what if a million people download the new app? we're good.

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welcome back. we want to take a minute to remember a life president obama called the conscience of the world. elie wiesel died at the age of 87. wiesel was a teenager when he and his family was sent a usc

hwitz in 1984 and would spent the next seven decades ensuring the words never again would be more than a slogan. he spoke out against hate and injustice wherever he saw it. 1986 wiesel accepted a peace prize to never stay silent. >> we must take sides for neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. silence of tore mentor, never silence of tore mentor, never the tormented. safety doesn't come in a box. it's not a banner that goes on a wall. it's not something you do now and then. or when it's convenient.

at bp, it's training and retraining in state-of-the-art simulators so we're better prepared for any situation. it's giving offshore teams support from onshore experts, so we have extra sets of eyes on our wells. and it's empowering anyone to stop a job if something doesn't seem right. so everyone comes home safely. we're working every day at bp, to improve our training, our technology, our culture. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better.

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and may increase side effects. the most common side effects are headache, diarrhea, and dizziness. all my life, he's protected me. ask their doctor about once-daily namenda xr and learn about a free trial offer at namenedaxr.com. welcome back. the past four decades have seen remarkable changes in our politics, strong political parties, spending, party

insiders and smoke-filled rooms have largely been replaced by direct primaries, restrictions, the death of the seniority system in maverick candidates accountable to no one. the changes all sound good but my next guest says the effort to create a transparent democracy created chaos and given us the politics we've seen today. jonathan is the author of the cover story in this month's "the atlantic." good to see you, sir. >> great to be here, chuck, thank you. >> probably the best summation of trying to explain how did we get here? the number one question all of us get which is how did we end up with trump and clinton and politics? i want to start with one excerpt. you wrote trump, sanders and ted cruz have in common that they are political psychopaths meaning they are not crazy but don't care what politics think

about their behavior and don't tear. >> politics is inherently a team sport. you need leaders to get followers to follow and coordinate thousands of interest groups and activists and other politicians and that takes people who can built personal networks who are can have private conversations, who can have strong party structures. that requires seniority systems on capitol hill so that loyalists are paid off. it requires money. you've got to be able to say, you know, chuck, you've been a loyal supporter. i'm going to route money to the campaign by stripping away those tools from leaders we've created a crisis of follower ship. >> it's interesting in your piece you write our most pressing political problem today is the country abandoned the establishment. not the other way around. you know, obviously we've been hearing that word whatever it meant, the establishment, i'm running against the establishment and you're contending no, the problem is the establishment is not working. >> yeah, it's been effectively

shattered. obviously, there are still people who look like more main stream than other people but the tools that an establishment needs to use to be able to organize politics include things like being able for example suppose i need you to vote with me on a debt limit bill to keep the vote up. that's tough. i need to give you protection in your primary race. if you can't do that, that won't help me. that's a leader without followers. that's john boehner and the mess we're in. >> hasn't it meant that you have the potential of vice presidential candidates not vetted in the same way. in a smoke-filled room people would have known what's going on and would have communicated that. it seems there have been choices going all the way back you can argue to dan quail where people weren't hurried up and sarah palin and put on a ticket and an important point now where candidates are going to be chosen for vice president by

these front runners and you have to know a lot more about them. >> andrea, we have without meaning to, best of intentions we've moved down a road where we now reward renegade political behavior and punish loyalests that play by the rules and that's a dangerous place to be. >> you talked some in this story about the kind of machines of old tammany hall and they ended up representing the little guy. do you think the establishment has made any mistakes, the republican party for example? did they forget about the masses of people who they actually need to send them here? >> you know, it's of course the establishment made huge mistakes. everyone made huge mistakes, but a lot of what happened is that the establishment lost the party, specifically. lost a lot of the power they used to have to be able to aggravate this. they bring them together and say who will talk to the working

class? who is on that? who is dealing with that? find candidates that mobile wise the votes. when you turn it over to a primary process, you're turning it over to special interests and active eestivists that have typ organize and taking it away from the unspoken for. >> how did the establish the lose the game and don't feel like they are represented by them. how do they get that message taken away and the line and the power and trying to benefit themselves. was it something they created and lost control of? >>ist it's a bunch of things. part of it is the so-called establishment. i prefer to think about insiders and because a lot of what happened there is we spent 40 or 50 years passing laws and policies that have systematically stripped away all of the tools and devices that

those people used in order to do their jobs and then we look up and discover they can't do their jobs. all they are talking heads. everyone says why didn't they intervene to stop trump? there is nothing they could do. they used to believe able to channel money and work quietly behind closed doors to get things done. in congress, and especially in the primary process. we've taken a way a lot of what they needed. >> 535 elected pundits. >> and demonized, earmarks and so forth and when i talk to voters, they i think the element of how you build coalitions and loyalty over time, they don't trust that. they don't accept that those swords of inner workings they might have in their workplace apply to government. how do you change their minds. >> you can try to start by writing an article but -- [ laughter ] >> that's right. >> check. >> it is such an uphill battle. the article talks about the mechanical things to do to begin

fixing this problem and not that difficult. a lot of them are simple changes in law or congressional rules like earmarks. the hard part is persuading the public we have gone too far down the road of demonizing the parties and m nes and professionals and until we start rebuilding them, we're just going to have more and more chaos. >> and rewarding compromise. >> rewarding compromise and team play. >> i hope every elected official reads this. many americans need to read it but it was -- it's an important piece and may be seminole. c congratulatio congratulations. >> thank you. >> when we come back in 45 seconds, end game time and could we learn this week the name of we learn this week the name of donald trump's - even parents need a time out sometimes, especially from communications technology. so why not spend one hour totally unplugged? read, talk, make art, or whatever. no batteries required.

brought to you by boeing. two weeks from the convention, well learn donald trump's presidential running

mate. we think the front runners are chris christie, newt gingrich and mike pentz. where do we stand? >> to pick that running mate they have to complete the vetting process. the questionnaires going out in a rolling fashion in both parties frankly, there are those on the list that have not completed that work yet and until it's in, they can't do it. why is that so important for donald trump? because the person he chose to do his vetting is a well-known d.c. lawyer who also vetted sarah palin. and the question is he wants to be certain that there is a thorough vetting and so the questionnaires which are more than 100 questions all kinds of things about -- >> very invasive. >> medical, everything you've done, social media habits, all of that asking potential picks to go through that, that's not done yet. the pick needs more time. >> katy, what are you hearing? >> we say, pentz, christie and

gingrich could be runners but i have sources that say be careful for a head fake. i mean, these are three people who think on their own, they have their own opinions and would be a real partner as a number two and my sources say donald trump wants his own ed mcman and someone that will yes donald trump him as opposed to somebody like newt who will go out and potentially criticize him -- >> christie? >> no, christie has been the yes man, nobody believes he'll be able to stay that way. they believe he's playing a role and they keep pointing and they keep saying this and we don't believe it, scott brown. >> pro-choice -- >> looking at personality-wise. >> i want to go to the democrats. tom perez has been working his way up the list. and he have enough foreign policy experience? does clinton care about that? >> clinton doesn't need to care about the experience but she needs to follow through on

commitments so that would be a big test. came, checked the boxes and will have to explain the gift practices he followed perfectly legal and even was excessive in the way he computed the values of things but given the bob mcdonald saying is this true, 8-0 invalidation of the prosecution, but given all of the other issues somebody that will come out -- >> tom, we've added him to the list as somebody vetted before. john carry vetted him in '04. roll america which is something she can't be -- >> in '08 he and his wife were major for hillary clinton -- >> their connection is with her, not bill. it is a hillary clinton long -- >> i think that that really matters a lot and i do think one thing the clinton campaign and

elizabeth warren. i don't think she needs to be the vice presidential pick and clinton and warren are working more towards a personal relationship but my sense is the idea hillary clinton would have somebody in the neighboring office so interested in taking the oval office job might be uncomfortable. >> with hillary clinton she's looking past the election to governing and one thing you really have to calculate is she was a senator. she is married to a president. she understands the relationship of congress to a president and i am told by so many senate democrats that she has options other than those that would remove a democratic senator. >> that matters. >> it matters. she wants a democratic senate. >> brown, warren, booker. >> take brown out of it, frankly, because she's getting a lot of pressure. she needs a democratic senate. >> i think brown would be the pick. >> she needs compatibility. she is seen the rivalry in the white house several times and does not want to have that. >> all right. i'm going to pause it there. we'll have a little -- we have something a little bit

interesting we're allowing folks to do. if this election has you feeling that you need to get something off your chest, we've got a way to do it. we're trying to provide you a way to do it and secret recalled election confessions.com. people have been submitting notes like this one after months of being vocal for bernie, i forgot to vote in my primary. well, we at nbc news gathered video confessions in los angeles at an event called politocon. >> my confession is i lie to my family about who i vote for. i lie to my husband. i lie to my kids. >> my confession is i've only ever voted for myself. i write in my name on every single line of a ballot. i feel like if everyone promises to be real, we don't really need a president. >> i'm ashamed of myself for living here for 24 years and never voted once because i'm too lazy to get my citizen ship.

>> sometimes i get the appeal of donald trump. please, god, help me. [ laughter ] >> you, too, can do this. find out how to confess. election confollowing the accident. >> that's how we should go and cover the rallies. >> we can do it after november. >> that's right. you can see the full video on "meet the press" facebook and confessions booth will be up and running at the convention. i never told my daughter anything about what i think about politics because she'll tell everybody at school. that's all for today. we want to wish you a very happy 4th of july. be safe and as we go, here is the united states marine band performing john phillips stars and stripes forever on the steps of the capitol. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

turn in philadelphia. a 16-year-old is shot and killed at a family cookout. we're live at the scene gathering new information. ♪ ♪ my country >> today is the grand finale of the wawa welcome america festival. there will be five hours of live music, rain or shine. we'll preview all of today's events. speaking of wet weather, here's a live look at the first alert radar. you see that yellow and green over ohio right now, and a little to our west? yeah, that's coming our way. a live picture of the wawa