comcast business. built for business. this sunday, a jittery nation and a jittery republican this sunday, a jittery nation. on the eve of the republican national convention right here in cleveland, donald trump makes his find, final decision. >> indiana governor mike pence is my first choice. >> the republican party tries to unity between two candidates who don' always agree with each other. i'll be joined by rns chairman reince priebus, and glenn beck. plus our brand new nbc news "wall street journal" poll out this morning. the e-mail story hurt clinton, but did it hurt her poll numbers against trump. also the backdrop to this election. it's a nation on edge. racial tensions at home. terror attacks both here and abroad. and now a coup attempt in turkey.

i'll talk to secretary of state john kerry. ask joining me for insight and analysis this special sunday are, nbc special news correspondent tom brokaw. former political director for president george w. bush, sarah fagan. julian reid, and salem radio network host hugh hewitt. welcome to sunday and "meet the press" the republican national convention. frns from cleveland, ohio, this is a special edition of "meet the press." good day from cleveland, ohio. we're here at the quicken loans arena one day before the republican national convention begins. we're going to get to all the political excitement that's building here in a moment. but first we begin with some troubling breaking news out of baton rouge, louisiana, where at least three law enforcement officers have been killed and three others wounded today in what the mayor there has described as an ambush-style attack. at least one suspect has been killed. but investigators say a manhunt is now on for at least two other

suspects who they believe were involved in the shooting. it all began with an emergency call reporting shots fired less than a mile from police headquarters in baton rouge. police do remain at the scene. right now they're using a robot to check for any possible explosives near the body of the suspect, who was killed. the city of baton rouge, of course, in recent weeks has been at the center of a nationwide outcry over the use of police force against african-americans after officers there were caught on camera fatally shooting a man named alton sterling in the parking lot of a convenience store. the justice department has opened an investigation into whether sterling's civil rights were violated. however -- and this is important -- it's not clear whether that incident is related to today's incident. we will continue to follow all the latest developments in baton rouge as we get them. but now we turn to politics and the republican national convention. we've got brabd new nbc news "wall street journal" poll numbers to share. they show hillary clinton holding a small but steady five

point lead over donald trump, 46-41. it is exactly where the two candidates stood a month ago, and that was before the fbi report on secretary clinton's e-mails. trump hasn't been able to take advantage. his -- that they've somehow chosen a candidate who violates almost every prescription laid out in the party's autopsy after mitt romney's defeat. >> the republican party has gone from sort of staid and staleresl to being the hottest party right now anywhere in the world. >> in the wake of mitt romney's loss, republican leaders acknowledged that their party needed to rebrand and turn around a losing streak in presidential years. >> i think that we had some biologically stupid things that were said in the last election. >> the autopsy's prescription, grow the party. first, avoid alienating women's voters with comments like this. >> i went to a number of women's

grupz and said can you find folks. >> but trump has widened the gender gap. >> frankly, if hillary clinton were a man, i don't think she'd get 5% of the vote. >> second, stop driving away minority voters. >> the answer is self-deportation, which is people decide that they can do better by going home. >> instead of embracing latinos, the fastest-growing demographic, trump has reopened the scars of failed republican attempts at immigration reform. >> i'll use the word anchor baby. excuse me, i'll word the word "anchor baby." >> third, fix the perception that the gop does not care about ordinary people, summed up in the line that many republicans believed lost romney the election. >> there are 47% of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. there are 47% who are with him, who believe that they are victims. >> but while party leaders focused on winning swing voters mitt romney didn't get, they missed the brewing economic

angst and cultural resentments of many members of their own party. bottom line, the rnc didn't autopsy why republican voters didn't like the republican party. >> if we talk about marginal tax rates and earned income tax credits and things that people that don't have any money don't think about. so we need to talk to them and with them instead of past them. that's what the party's autopsy got wrong. >> in a "washington post" poll released this spring, nearly half of trump supporters said whites were losing out to other racial groups, leaving trump an opportunity to exploit the deep anger at republican elites. >> we're getting the hell beat out of us and it's going to stop. and we're going to bring our jobs back to this country. we're going to make product again. we're going to lift our wages. >> and remaking the party in his own image. well, earlier today i spoke with the chairman of the republican party, reince priebus, and began by asking him whether the new

ticket of trump and pence is missing an opportunity by not doing what every other ticket has done in previous elections, campaigning together right away in front of the american people. >> at least what i've been seeing on tv, they're everywhere. i think anything trump does gets a lot of attention. i think he did yesterday. i thought that mike pence did a great job. i think he's a perfect pick, i think, for donald trump. he's a great complement to donald trump, experienced, governor, leadership in the house, all of the things that i know that donald trump wanted to check, he did it. i'm excited about next week. >> does mike pence make it so that monday night at this convention where there could be, you know, a minority report or some never trump stuff, does mike pence help calm that down in your opinion? >> that's a good point. i really think it does. i know that there are some delegates that were slower to come around than others, but what i've heard from a lot of the delegates is a lot of praise about pence. a lot of the conservatives were very happy about it. i know leadership in the house

and the senate very happy with the pence pick. so good for donald trump, it's good for the party, it's good for our country. >> you know, when did you come around on donald trump? and i say it this way because you were, as the referee, you would be tough on him when he said some things that you thought was damaging to the party. but you eventually came around. what did it take? >> well, i mean i think it took, number one, i really got to know donald trump. but number two, it's a binary choice. it's hillary clinton or donald trump. this silliness with never trump, i mean who's your nominee, guys? who's your vp? who's raising money? it's a fantasyland. so for me a vote for anyone other than donald trump is a vote for hillary clinton. but i also got to know donald trump. the donald trump i got to know is a nice, gracious -- i mean quite frankly even in private listens, sometimes pretty quiet. >> how come you don't see that

guy in public? you're not the first person to say this. >> i've told him and the campaign, and i think i'm very much a part of that operation, if the public sees the donald trump that i've gotten to know in private, he will not be stopped. >> but he doesn't ever present that person. >> but what you're seeing with the pence pick, i think the last few weeks have been very good for him. i know what he's thinking about the convention and the future. i think he understands it fully, the pivot to the general. he's never run before for anything. he has been in primary mode for a year and it was a tough, bruising situation. i think it's just taken longer to pivot. i think he's pivoting. >> as you know, the autopsy report from 2013, i know you don't technically call it an autopsy, but it's been known as that, about why mitt romney lost. you guys outlined a bunch of things having to do particularly with outreach to minorities, outreach to young voters.

this platform seems to run counter to the recommendations of the 2013 committee that looked into what's wrong. it's not -- it's not reflecting any of those points, whether it's on immigration, whether it's outreach to latinos, same-sex marriage. what happened? >> well, nothing happened. the principles of the party are the same. we believe in traditional marriage, we don't believe that -- we believe in life that starts at conception, equal protection and the 14th amendment. that's our -- that's our beliefs as a party, but it doesn't mean that you don't shower people with grace and love and respect. that's something that i've always talked about. but the autopsy really is about engaging in black, hispanic, asian communities, being a full-time party, investing in data -- >> has donald trump done that? >> i think he's done much better at it. i think he's come around a lot since a few months ago. i think he understands it. i know where his heart's at, i can tell you. and i think people are going to

start seeing that. >> there's two things in the platform that may -- i'm curious if you're comfortable with it. there's one in a draft that said children raised in a traditional two-parent household tend to be mentally and physically healthier, less likely to engage in crime. every child deserves a married mom and dad. it's implying somehow that children of same-sex couples are more likely to be addicts, to engage in crime. do you mean to have it imply that? >> no. it means the best scenario for kids is a loving mom and dad. however, it doesn't mean at all that single parents, that same-sex parents, that any parents in america can't love a child and can't raise a child and that child can't be successful and loved. i mean so it doesn't mean that. it just means what the facts say. look, like i said before, love, respect, dignity. but traditional values, and

that's what our party is about. >> there are no bushes speaking at this convention, no mitt romney, no john mccain, no living former republican nominee is going to address this convention. the rising stars of the party, it's a who's who of people not coming here, whether it's nikki haley, marco rubio is doing a video address, he's not attending. you're not showcasing the best parts of your party. are you disappointed about that? >> i don't know about that, chuck. tomorrow night you're going to see joni ernst, you're going to see scott walker, you're going to see ben carson, newt gingrich. look, everyone has to make their own decisions. it's not unusual that everyone doesn't speak at a convention. i'd love everybody -- >> it is unusual not to have a bush at the convention. >> well, it didn't happen four years ago, chuck. >> the bush family -- there were members of the bush family here. >> listen, i was chairman then. i actually don't remember that. >> i'm not going to -- >> i know in st. paul there was

no president bush in st. paul. so, look, it's not uncommon. but i would also tell you this is not going to be a traditional scenario. i mean we're not going to have one politician after the next every three minutes giving a four-minute speech. it's just not going to be that way. there will be plenty of them, but not back-to-back. >> reince priebus, i've got to leave it there. congratulations. we all look forward to a peaceful week in cleveland. >> me too. thank you. >> thank you, sir. joining me now is glenn beck, the founder of the conservative website and tv network the blaze. beck has been a vocal critic of donald trump. trump right from the start. while he has no love for hillary clinton, he says he can't bring himself to vote for trump. mr. beck, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you. can't vote for hillary either. i am one of these people that -- i mean honestly, i was listening to that interview and i feel like the world of blade runner makes more sense than this one. i don't even know where to begin, we're living in such a

fantasy world where nothing makes sense anymore. i -- >> what jumped out at you from the chairman there? >> the whole thing did. i don't even -- honestly, i don't even know where to begin with that. it is remarkable to me that both parties are so out of touch with the american people. both democrats, republicans and independents, we all feel the same way. three things. i don't belong to anything anymore and i want to feel like i belong to something. i don't even feel like my country is even the same. i don't belong to anything. nobody is listening to me. and i don't have any levers that control my own life. i can't control my own income, i can't control my own destiny, i can't even control my own farm if i'm a farmer. this is not going to last. and these guys are just playing

a game. they're playing a show. you know that reince priebus knows better than what he just said. you know that he does not -- he is not looking at the autopsy and going, well, i think this is great. we're doing the same thing we did with mitt romney except much, much worse. >> but what should be done? what should be done? the last time you were on -- >> nothing, it's too late. >> you actually poo-pooed the idea of yousing the convention dump trump. what do you do? >> i know what i'm going to do, but i don't -- i'm out of the business of telling anybody else what they should do because i think there are tons of hillary clinton people that, you know, have maybe voted for the clintons in the past or thought they would like hillary clinton that are now to the point of she is so corrupt, she is so much about her and her foundation, which is completely corrupt, she is building an absolute dynasty

of corruption. it's nothing, nothing reflective of the american system. and then you have donald trump who the only advisers that he listens to are his children. what do you have, he's a corrupt businessman, she's corrupt. so both sides are now saying what are you going to do? i think we feel all americans -- i shouldn't say all. reince and a few others at both conventions are going to be fine just pulling the lever, but i think a lot of people are pulling it not holding their nose, wincing in pain as they think about pulling that lever. so what you decide to do is your own business, but i have to tell you, there are -- there are choices. you can vote for the green party. you can vote for the libertarian party. and i know people will say that's a vote for the other guy. but you know what, i can't sell my soul anymore to these

parties. >> let me ask you -- all right, so let me ask the obvious question here or the obvious -- i know the answer, now it seems obvious. mike pence does nothing for you to make donald trump more appealing? >> look, mike pence is a nice guy. you know, he's fine and he's doing a good job. i don't have anything against mike. i know that i talked to mike when i was in indiana during the campaign. he didn't have anything nice to say about donald trump. i will tell you that if ted cruz comes out on, what is it, monday or tuesday night when he gives his speech and he endorses, even a soft endorsement of donald trump, i will officially have no person in washington that i can trust, says what they mean and mean what they say. >> it's funny you say that. mr. beck, i had this exact conversation with a reporter last night about -- he said we're finding out who tells you the truth on the record and off the record and who doesn't.

and you have a lot of republicans who will say one thing about trump off the record and another on the record. do you think that's got to stop? >> oh, my gosh, i think it has to stop. look, the problem is in our society that there's no authenticity. you can't trust anybody because they -- you know they don't believe that. what was so frustrating about reince is i guess he's doing his job. but if doing your job means you're not being transparent, then you've got to go get another job, man, and quit that one. nobody is saying what they mean and meaning what they say. i am literally almost alone. i was standing against trump because of a set of principles. not that i don't like the man. the same principles that make me not be able to vote for hillary clinton. why all of a sudden are these people who were so strongly against clinton or so strongly against trump now suddenly on the clinton train, on the trump

train? did you believe what you said? >> mr. beck, i appreciate you sharing your views. i've got to leave it there. i think we all know where you stand at this point and i will look forward to checking back in before november to see what lever you might be pulling. thanks very much. >> thank you very much. when we come back, donald trump very odd vp rollout. and then consider this, trump and pence will not be campaigning together today, you won't see them together tomorrow, not tuesday. so exactly what kind of political marriage is this? you can fly across welcome town in minutes16, or across the globe in under an hour. whole communities are living on mars and solar satellites provide earth with unlimited clean power. in less than a century, boeing took the world from seaplanes

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...hepatitis b, are prone to infections, ...or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. if you're still just managing your symptoms, ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. welcome back. we've got a lot to digest after those two interviews. anyway, yesterday's rollout of governor mike pence as donald trump's running mate was like many things about donald trump's campaign this year, different from what we've seen in the past. other than when they applauded, as pence came out, the audience sat in their seats and listened politely in new york, a nonswing city, in a nonswing state, that had nothing to do with mike pence. he didn't grow up there or anything. after the event pence was on his way back to indiana alone. now compare this to 2012.

mitt romney introduced paul ryan to the world on the battleship wisconsin in the swing state of virginia, waving flags, a backdrop of people. there's that air force one music. and then the two hit the road together, doing four more events just that day alone. let's go back in time to 2008, john mccain brought sarah palin into our lives in dayton, ohio, another swing state. rally with family in tow. by the way, i'm all for using air force one music all the time. later that day, the two took their spouses to get ice cream and made other stops as they spent the next two days together in pennsylvania and missouri. that's not what happened yesterday. the panel is here with me in cleveland. we've got our nbc news special correspondent tom brokaw, former political director for george w. bush, sarah fagan. joy ann reid and salem radio network host hugh hewitt. welcome to all of you. sarah fagan, i want to start

with you because you've done rollouts for vps before. yesterday was different. i want to put up something else that we put together, a word cloud. this is a word cloud of donald trump's speech introducing mike pence. i had to circle the words mike and pence in there since they are not the most prominent words he spoke. now here's mitt romney's word cloud for the speech introducing paul ryan. i circled it but i didn't need to there. >> right, you didn't need to. i think yesterday was a huge missed opportunity. at every level, from the rollout of the logo to the candidate's wife not standing on the stage after to him leaving, to the way he approached it. they basically got nothing for that. and, you know, not to mention news in turkey where the story was pushed in many papers to the bottom. so this huge moment in the campaign looked like a lieutenant governor rollout to me. >> tom, you've seen a lot of these rollouts, we all have.

look, they're usually huge moments, they're usually big deals. the arms are raised. >> but i can't remember in which we've had such a contrast in the two candidates. here you have donald trump three times married, a democrat for a while and then a republican. mike pence is a conservative christian who says he won't go to a party where they're serving drinks if he doesn't have his wife with him because he doesn't want to get in trouble. i don't think that's in donald trump's playbook, by the way, as picking a vice president. we know that he was kind of dragged into picking mike pence. speaking of optics, if you look at that original announcement, he looks down to make sure he's got the name right before he looks up again. he doesn't come out and robustly say mike pence is my guy. it's like he's introducing a new schoolteacher at the beginning of the term. >> this is when you get a window into how the campaign is being run and it is not a pretty picture. and so these big moments in a campaign, you don't get do-overs. and there's a lot to be proud of for republicans in mike pence. he is a conservative, he is a christian, he has the ability to have a lot of people in the

party like glenn beck give a second look. but they missed that opportunity. >> i'm glad you brought up glenn beck. hugh and joy, you both -- my mouth was sort of aghast. there were times i felt speechless. >> well, donald trump is a black swan event for the republican party. it's unprecedented, it is causing chaos, it is very turbulent. i like the governor pence selection because it is a governing selection. it telegraphs reliability. if he becomes president, if he beats secretary clinton, you can count on people like pence to be the secretary of defense, the secretary of state and so i think it telegraphs an uber message. i believe he could have named oprah or rush and we still would have had the same. it's a trump centric campaign, completely different from anything i've ever seen and i don't think it matters what that event was like because it's all about trump. >> i think it actually does better. the thing that struck me about glenn beck is he point blank said reince priebus didn't

believe anything that he was saying when he was in the interview with you. it was shocking and jaw dropping to say that because you felt reince priebus' sort of pain and suffering doing that interview, he has to say what he's saying. everything about the rollout also felt like somebody who didn't believe what they were saying. that was i think the big problem. the rollout of pence felt like donald trump doing something he didn't want to do, about him eating his vegetables. he read from a paper when he talked about mike pence but he was excited and happy when he talked about himself and how he won. the rollout of that logo, which became the subject of ridicule had clearly not a lot of thought put into it. >> you brought it up. i have to bring up this tweet. it's a little trollish by david plouffe, the former campaign manager for barack obama, but this was his tweet yesterday. clear that the slekelection of p is distasteful for a narcissist like trump. pence is like a leg bracelet probation officers forced him into. sarah fagan -- >> here's what i'd say about all of that. we're playing by the old rules when we make all these

observations. donald trump has reinvented politics. this may be a historic week. he may be reinventing the republican party. i've watched it go from the party of captains of industry and old money and kind of mainstream bankers to richard nixon took it to the south, ronald reagan took it to the west. it opened it up in an entirely different way. he's come along and he's changed the party entirely. people are rejecting the old standard of what the republican party is. it's no longer the gop, it's now the donald trump.com party at this moment. whether that will last, we don't know. >> sarah, to pick up on tom's point, free trade, they're on opposite sides. a nafta attacker in trump, a nafta promoter in mike pence. on the muslim ban, on the iraq war. the two ticket mates present the divide in the republican party on the same ticket. >> which is why in many respects it was a very good pick. i mean donald trump -- to me i looked at the pick and thought donald trump thinks he can win and he recognizes he has a

problem with a big percentage of the republican base. and this selection reflected it. but you're right. it's a very different era. donald trump reflects the times we live. the times don't reflect donald trump. >> i think also it shows that donald trump doesn't want a vice president that's going to compete with him on the national stage. there was a sort of sad spectacle of pence being sort of shunted off to have dinner at chili's all by himself. there was no bromance. >> but the chili's moment would have been more effective had the trumps been with them. where were the trumps? having ice cream with the pences. >> honestly i don't think the future of the republicans depends on whether or not -- >> i hear you. >> sarah just said he believes he can win. he needs pennsylvania, ohio and michigan. we are in the land and he believes he can win in northeastern ohio by using out of work steel workers and people who have left the car industry.

he believes he can win in pennsylvania and michigan. pence underscores -- rob portman, kelly ayotte, here's a traditional conservative that will campaign with them. >> but democrats -- i felt like the clinton campaign had more information out on mike pence, their version of information in the last 48 hours than the trump campaign. >> absolutely. they already rolled out their opposition research on mike pence, which all had to do with zeroing in on women and his position on things like abortion and lgbt issues. but i think what hugh said actually is a valid point. i just spent a lot of time in lorain, ohio, talking with out of work steel workers. we did a focus group of seven guys, all over 40, all white males all who voted for barack obama in '08, six of seven voted for barack obama in 2012. they're undecided. a couple of them were considering trump and it's because of that issue. they feel despair, they feel manufacturing the bottom has dropped out and they're taking a look at trump and some of them

don't trust hillary clinton. >> you're going to see a lot of that. this race is close. hillary clinton clearly has an edge. and to me, you know, you had your poll you mentioned earlier, the most interesting number in that poll to me was gary johnson's 11%. because he's 4% away from getting on the debate stage, which actually could give donald trump the best chance of winning this election with 43% of the vote. >> she also didn't bring up the fact 6% jill stein the green party. we have one in five voters telling us they will vote third party, including glenn beck. >> i think, by the way, one other point about glenn beck if i can briefly, when he said people are -- they don't know where to turn to. in fact what they're doing is turning to local politics. cities are working in america, states are working in america. it's the rejection of what's going on at the federal level that we're witnessing right now. and politics as usual in these two parties. but i do think there will be a lot of going across the ballot to somewhere else and i think there will be a lot of dropouts. i think people will go vote for

the local election but leave the presidential -- >> funny you say that. senate campaigns may see more votes than the presidential election anyway. let me pause it here. when we come back, foreign policy tends to force its way into a campaign one way or another. the most recent example, the failed coup in turkey. a critical u.s. ally in the most dangerous part of the world. my interview with secretary of state john kerry coming up right after this. and can you explain to me why you recommend synthetic over cedar? "super food"? is that a real thing? it's a great school, but is it the right the one for her? is this really any better than the one you got last year? if we consolidate suppliers what's the savings there? so should we go with the 467 horsepower? or is a 423 enough? good question. you ask a lot of good questions... i think we should move you into our new fund. ok. sure. but are you asking enough about how your wealth is managed? wealth management, at charles schwab. our customer is a our 21-year-old female. heavily into basketball.

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welcome back. this week in cleveland will produce pictures of hats, buttons and balloons. but on the edges of what is affectionately known as the q, we might find that the unrest around the world is also seeping in. turkey and france are just a few of the places that are hard to ignore, even if a political party is going on right here in cleveland. secretary of state john kerry is in luxembourg after meeting with his russian counterpart in moscow where the two countries seemed to get a little closer to making a cease-fire work in syria. well, to get more on this and all of these events around the world, i'm joined now by the secretary of state. mr. secretary, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you very much. glad to be with you. >> well, it's been a tumultuous week, to say the least, between what happened in nice, the coup in turkey. we've had some both domestic and international events that have come into our shores it feels

like the last five weeks. a lot of americans may feel as if the world is coming apart. what do you say to that? >> i say that actually we're making progress, but i know when you have these spectacular events, it's very difficult to measure. but here's the real measure. in iraq we are taking back territory very rapidly from daesh, isil. isil's space is seriously contracting. similarly in syria we're making significant progress. i was just in russia where we're talking with the russians about how we can put a cessation more effectively into place which will enable us to go after isil, kill isil more effectively and get to the political process of a transition of dealing with assad. i believe we made progress there. we made significant progress on the ground. but there are fighters, chuck, who have left syria a year ago,

two years ago, three years ago and there's a process of radicalization that takes place so that one person in one place, as we saw in orlando or as we just saw in nice, france, has the ability to jump in a truck or go into a nightclub and unfortunately do terrible damage. that is extremely hard for law enforcement to deal with ahead of time unless there is intelligence regarding it. so i believe those events actually are efforts by isil to try to prove relevance and to try to frighten people more, but i do think with respect to the fight against the leadership, we've taken 130 of their major leaders off the battlefield. we are making progress. and this week in washington we'll have 45 nations, defense ministers and foreign ministers gathering in washington to lay down even more plans for how we

go forward. >> let me start with turkey. it appears as if the coup has been squashed by president erdogan. i know, i've heard your statements, the united states, other allies support the democratically elected leader there. but let me ask you this, are you confident president erdogan is not going to use this coup to essentially grab more power and erode more the democracy? >> we think it's very important that he doesn't do that, obviously. that would be a great challenge to his relationship to europe, to nato and to all of us. we have urged them not to reach out so far that they're creating doubts about their commitment to the democratic process. i hope it won't result in that. >> do you believe that some of -- there are some folks who believe that a man by the name

of fethullah gulen who is in a self-imposed exile in pennsylvania, some are trying to point the finger at him for this coup and even talking about asking for extradition. you had said the united states would be open to that if they can prove it. do you believe mr. gulen was involved in this at all? >> i have no knowledge, i have no evidence whatsoever at this point in time, but i talked with my foreign minister counterpart three times in the last day, and i urged him to compile the evidence that they have as rapidly as possible, provide it directly to us through the channels, and i pledged to him that according to our extradition treaty, according to our legal process and standards, we will immediately evaluate whether or not that evidence is sufficient to merit an extradition. but they also have to make a formal request for extradition through the judicial process. they haven't done that yet. that has to be accompanied by

evidence and by, you know, by demonstrated facts which would lead a court to approve the extradition itself. but we're open. we're not blocking it. we've never had a formal request. >> our time is short here. you brought up the deal that you struck in russia. we don't know any details of this deal, you haven't provided it. what should that tell us, the fact that there are no details to this deal, and why are you confident that you can work with the russians? we're going to coordinate air strikes with the russians, a country that you unloaded on not that long ago when they were essentially going into the ukraine and taking crimea. why do you trust the russians on this topic. >> we're still working on the issue of ukraine and still haven't resolved the issue of ukraine. frankly we spent a great deal of

time laying down the steps that we need to take to deal with ukraine also, so we're working on a number of different issues. but with respect to syria, nothing in what we talked about is based on trust. i'm not sitting here naively trusting what the russians may or may not do. what we have done is laid out a series of steps, concretely. each step south dakois the prel somebody else happening. if it doesn't happen, there won't be that progress. the reason we're not laying it all out is simply there have been disappointments. the cessation of hostilities is not working properly. assad has not abided by it. russia itself has presented some challenges. so i don't want to raise expectations. i'm trying to lay this out in a way that is between us on a basis of steps taken. and there's no question of any reliance on trust or relationship. this has to be proven step by

step. if it's proven, it has the potential of changing the dynamics on the ground. if it isn't, then we have to talk about other options and alternatives. >> secretary kerry, i have to leave it there. i look forward to having more time with you very soon. >> thank you. >> thank you, sir. you got it. >> have fun in cleveland. have fun in cleveland. coming up, the election and the growing racial divide in the country, some startling new poll results.

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order your kit now at ancestrydna.com welcome back. just because we're in cleveland doesn't mean we don't have some data to download. this week's data download is a topic that's been on the minds of many americans, it's the state of race relations in this country. you won't be surprised to find out that americans are feeling the impact of recent events in baton rouge, st. paul, dallas. president obama tried to be a unifying voice this week at the memorial service in dallas. >> i'm here to insist that we are not as divided as we seem. and i know that because i know america. i know how far we've come against impossible odds. >> but the country feels less hopeful and it's reflected in our latest nbc news/"wall street journal" poll. right now race relations are at

the lowest point in the history of our poll, more than 25 years. the previous low was october of 1995. that was the month of the o.j. simpson verdict in that criminal trial. back then 61% said race relations were bad while 34% said they thought race relations were good. in our new poll a whopping 74% of all americans say race relations are bad and only 24% say they are good. 50 points underwater on that question. african-americans particularly are feeling increasingly negative about the country. a standard question that we ask, is the country headed in the right direction or going on the wrong track. in january african-americans were a net positive on this question, 18 points ahead on the positive side saying the country was headed in the right direction. now african-americans are in a negative standpoint, minus 22 points, saying the country is headed in the wrong track. a 40-point swing in just six months. it's obvious that all of this has had an impact. finally, we asked which candidate would be better on race relations? well, neither candidate got a

majority. 41% said only hillary clinton, 19% said only donald trump. guess what, one in three said neither. the next president will have to face these issues in some form or another. the question is whether either one of them are ready to do it. when we come back, can either donald trump or hillary clinton claim calm -- calm people's fears about terror and end up fears about terror and end up winning votes in the process? i found her wandering miles from home. when the phone rang at 5am, i knew it was about mom. i see how hard it's been on her at work and i want to help. for the 5 million americans living with alzheimer's, and millions more who feel its effects. let's walk together to make an even bigger impact and end alzheimer's for good. find your walk near you at alz.org/walk.

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the panel is back. before we jump right into the convention politics, tom, i want to go to the question that i

asked john kerry. which is this sense of the last five weeks and what it's going to do to the american psyche. we watched what happened in nice. we've had a terrorist attack at the istanbul airport and of course the coup in turkey, what happened in st. paul and baton rouge and dallas. all of it collectively is going to have an impact on americans in ways that i think the candidates haven't appreciated yet. >> i couldn't agree with you more. i think there is a sense of real terror out there. i have a friend in rural iowa who's arming himself at this point and taking gun instruction. i say to him they aren't going to come find you in that small town in iowa, but that's representative, it seems to me, of the rising tide of fear. by the way, there's a mix here. what happened in dallas was a black man who went wild against the dallas police department. what happened obviously in orlando was a whole different motivation altogether. none of which we have any way of getting our hands around. who are these people, what motivates them, and how do we

respond to these lone wolves, which is effectively what they are. we're not looking at a big mosaic of an organization of some kind. it's somebody who goes completely off the rails and decides to take out whatever hatred he has in his heart against police, against a gay nightclub or whatever it is. that's a good reason to be unmoored. i do think that the country has to find a way of collectively coming together and dealing with this and it's got to transcend party lines and everything else. i group eat the end of the civil rights movement. we have elected an african-american president, there is a lot of progress. but the hostility out there is really unsettling to me and it's based on pigmentation. people are making judgments on the color of the skin and that's wrong. >> you're right that the country has to come together but how this impacts our politics will also be fascinating. there are countless examples around the globe when people are afraid, really afraid about

their economics, about their safety, they look for the strong man. and that is to me when you look at attributes in presidential races, which often define who wins and loses, strong leader will be the most important thing we should be looking at. assuming these events continue through the fall, as to how these candidates play on election day. >> but i think they're different reactions because i think what tom said is true. you're starting to see, unfortunately, all of these different violent acts almost sort of blending together. not only do you have some pockets of the country that are out in rural parts of the country arming themselves against what they think is isis coming to get them, but you also have fears of just mass shootings, period, that are completely domestic in origin. we have this interracial tension and negativity that's also cropping up at the same time, but you have people in the african-american community saying, hey, our big fear is police. so you have all of these different fears coming together. i don't think we can look at the entire body politic as just one

because each of the different groups have different fears. >> and that's what i think, i think the politicians are trying to respond individually to each one. and they try to respond with what they think they're most comfortable talking about. maybe republicans want to talk about getting terrorists and democrats want to talk about what are we going to do about guns. but i think the american voter is digesting this much differently. >> i think the campaign has become disconnected from the country and the globe. i think you're exactly right. they're trying to put squares into round holes. here's what's happened. all presidents being human are deeply flawed, but the office usually reveals the flaws. this is the first presidential campaign where the flaws of both candidates are dominating the campaign. hillary clinton's untrustworthiness, donald trump's inexperience and bluster. they're not driving the black-whitish you, not driving the latino-white issue, they're disconnected. it's a personality campaign on

top of a world of turmoil. >> that's a great way of putting it. this campaign doesn't feel reflective of what's happening. >> part of the reason of that is there are a lot of people out there who are qualified to be president and don't want to jump into the arena. it's been too tough for them to make that leap, quite honestly, to get involved at politics at whatever level because they find themselves on the front page. everything that they have ever done, everything that they own is disclosed out there. i'm not going to pay that price. we're not getting the kind of people who should be coming forward. i know they exist. they exist at universities and corporations and small towns and large cities. we've got a lot of really capable people. but the fact is when you jump into the political arena on a national level now, we lay them bare right here on this desk and pick them apart. they say it's not worth it to me. >> it's a huge problem. we'll be back in 45 seconds with end game. and we have a look ahead. there's going to be big news from the democrats by the end of the week. who will hillary clinton pick as her running mate? coming up, "meet the press"

ends game brought to you by boeing. building the future one century at a time. - embracing diversity is more crucial than ever. by the year 2043, there will be no racial or ethnic majority in the u.s. what color will america be? red, white, and blue. the more you know. "meet the press" end game is brought to you by boeing,

building the future one century at a time. back now with end game. speaking of it, we're going to get to the end game here on the democratic vice presidential process. what's interesting here, one of the finalists is actually speaking out about the job. tom vilsack, the current secretary of agriculture, former governor of iowa, is on the very shortest of lists here, joy. here's what he said to our cameras yesterday, sort of testing out his anti-trump rhetoric. here it is. >> donald trump is sort of to politics what bernie madoff was to investment. he is selling something that people don't fully understand and appreciate what it actually means. and i think, you know, governor pence will obviously, you know, be a loyal running mate. but i think he's going to have a difficult time with some of those positions. certainly the issues involving muslims were of a concern to governor pence before. i can't help but think they're

still a concern to him. >> i think nobody might have been happier about the mike pence pick than tom vilsack because midwestern governor, midwestern governor. >> two words, chuck. shirley sherrod. it would be such a short-sighted decision to pick the guy that fired shirley sherrod on the ticket of the woman embracing the first black president. >> african-american, usda -- >> she made a speech at the naacp, breitbart.com misinterpreted her speech, editted portions of it and tried to characterize her as a reverse racist. she was fired on her way to work. t tom vilsack took responsibility for it. that is all you will hear about in african-american communities. shirley sherrod. >> ended tom vilsack's chances. >> i'm rooting for anyone but the admiral. his reputation is so extraordinary, his experience so

broad, his diplomatic skills so honed that i think we would be in a deep, deep hole if she did go outside of the box and went to the admiral. >> you know, tom, tim kaine is the front-runner. nothing about the pence pick puts -- i don't think the pence pick puts pressure on hillary clinton to suddenly feel like she's got to change strategies here, right? >> no. i think it did give her a chance to lay back and say, all right, how do we counterbalance that. based on what i'm hearing inside kaine, the senator from virginia has a big, big lead -- not lead so much but he's got momentum. >> whatever that means in hillary's head. >> at this stage in the process, what she's also doing is taking care of constituencies. vilsack in the midwest, elizabeth warren were her followers. they're all going to be the great mentioners in the next couple of days. what she'll do is pick someone who can help her. kaine, board are state, spanish speaking. we'll see. >> i think she'll pick someone who can govern the country. she doesn't need to respond to

any of these skpit aenconstitue way it's being reported. she doesn't need a liberal, she doesn't need a woman. in defense of tom vilsack, he's had a very good and respectable career other a long period of time. one decision i don't think is fair to criticize him. >> it will be interesting. it will pop up. >> it will be a discussion. >> we shouldn't rule out a very qualified person over one decision. >> before i go, a quick programming note. i'll be hosting a special preview tonight at 5:00 p.m. the good old mtp daily and of course nbc news will provide live coverage of the republican national convention every day next week. i'll be joined by lester holt and savannah guthrie all four nights. it begins tomorrow at 10:00 eastern. i'll see you there. that's all for today.

welcome to the honda "nbc sportsdesk." >> hi, there, everybody. i'm dave briggs. live beach volleyball from manhattan beach in just a few minutes. but first, an all-time great final round at the open. mielson, part nicholas watson, part ali-fraser exchanging blows. mickelson combined to go 8 under on the front. hend rik was up one at the turn. mickelson finding new ways to save par. great putt there. still tied on the 14th. stinson, found his stroke with the putter this weekend. he birdies