presidential candidate hillary clinton joins us to talk about campaign 2016. four years since hillary clinton came on a sunday show she's here with us today we'll ask her how she thinks her campaign is going. day. and who she would like to run against in the general election if she wins the nomination. we'll also hear from republican candidate and kentucky senator rand paul. we'll have analysis from the latest from the campaign trail. finally we'll take a look at the politics of the pope. what washington can learn from him while he's in town this week. all coming up on "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs good morning welcome to "face the nation" i'm john dickerson we're joined by democratic presidential candidate and former secretary of state, hillary clinton, welcome secretary clinton we're glad to

have you. let's start in the news, syrian refugees. president obama said he will increase the number allowed into 10,000 that enough? >> we're facing the worst refugee crisis since the end of world war ii. i think united states has to do more and i would like to see us move from what is a good start with 10,000 to 65,000 and begin immediately to put into place the mechanisms for vetting the people that we would take in, looking to really emphasize some of those who are most vulnerable, lot of the persecuted, religious minorities including christians and some who have been brutalizeed by o but also want the united states to lead the world and i recommended that at the upcoming u.n. general assembly there be an international meeting called by the secretary general and get people to commit, putting money in, helping the front line states like jordan and turkey

and lebanon who work with the eu and european countries but getting everybody to make a contribution. >> dickerson: let me ask you about the underlying condition, you advocated, ultimately put in place, we now hear that that is not going well at all out of 12,000 syrians have been trained there are only handful that can actually fight. is this a bad idea or was this -- this was a good idea but poorly executed. >> did i recommend that at the beginning of this conflict we do more to help train those who were in the forefront meeting the opposition against assad looking to bring the moderates together, a lot of these rebels originally, they were business people, they were professional people, they were students, they had no training in going up against the syrian army which was going to use to the ultimate effect. that was not the decision taken at that time.

there are now big ungoverned territories within syria that are dominated by terrorist groups, isis being the best known. but not the only one. you have iran and russia increasingly moving in to support assad and his constant bombardment against his own people. then you have these millions of refugees, where we are today is not where we were. and where we are today is that we have a failed program. you heard the testimony. five people trained for half 500 million dollars. but i think we still have to keep working with the turks, with the jordanians, with others of our partners, also have to do more to support the cords, advocated. >> dickerson: let me ask you about rush a. u.s. policy now we're not going to turn to the russians for help the same russians who have -- were busy in ukraine doing things we don't like them to d. israelis think they're involved in hezbollah. >> i hope we're not turning to

the russians. let me just quickly say that i wouldn't give up on training, but i sure would push the pentagon to take hard look what has been done has been such a failure. and what more we can do to support like kurdish fighters who are on the front lines. one of the difficulties we had, is that we basically were trying to train people to only take on isis. and terrorist networks, we're not training and equipping them to take on assad or his military or his proxies which include hezbollah. i hope we are not turning to the russians in that way. i hope what we're doing, is this is what i support, i heard secretary kerry say this is what we will be doing. i think secretary carter has begun these conversations, first of all, you have to figure out what they are doing. russia has long interest in seary they have had a face in -- naval base in syria for a long time. they have a connection because lot of syrians were educated in

syria. they have not only deep links to syria and syrians, but they intend to support assad for their own reasons. and we need to really unpeel what it is they're trying to accomplish and work with others to try to contain them. i want to end by saying, if they are providing any equipment to hezbollah, if they are supporting hezbollah which is the main fighting force on behalf of the iranians to support assad but also deadly threat to israel then we have got to take action, whether there are tougher sanctions or other kinds of actions to >> dickerson: something that came up in the republican debate, jeb bush said, one thing is true about his brother, he kept america safe. do you agree with that? >> i think it's a complicated question, because of course 9/11 happened. i was a senator from new york and i was basically consumed by

my responsibility to help the people directly affected, my state and in the city. it did happen, then i do give president bush credit for bringing the country together face. mistake. afghanistan. he sorted all out, it's a mixed >> dickerson: let me take you back to the 2008 campaign where iraq was a conversation, you ran an ad 3:00 a.m. $which became quite famous let's play that. >> i haven't seen that in a long time. >> dickerson: throw walk sunday here. >> 3:00 a.m., who do you want answering the phone? >> i'm hillary clinton, i approve this message. >> dickerson: the question, now you've been secretary of state. benghazi is that your 3:00 a.m.

phone call and how well did you handle that crisis. >> of course it was a crisis. we lost four brave americans including the person that i asked the president to send as ambassador. but we live in a dangerous world. and even our diplomats are at threat and that goes all the way back to, goodness sakes, taking over our embassy in tehran or bombings of our embassy when president reagan was in charge. this is a dangerous world. and i think what we had to do during that period of time in trying to protect our people consulate. giving them -- getting them evacuated not only working on what was going on in libya, we had embassies that were under attack or threatened to attack by terrorist groups across north africa indeed across much larger swath of the world. i think it was terribly tragic what happened. i immediately asked for

former secretary of state did. and i made that public. the only other person who did that was secretarial bright after our beam sees were bombed in africa. my view on this, we have to learn things. we are always learning. we learned after beirut. we have learned after benghazi but we're not going to be able to represent the united states working out of hermetically sealed tanks. we'll have to be out in the world. >> dickerson: one more question on benghazi. the charges in this campaign that after it happened, there was report inside state department and inside the government that this was a terrorist attack. but what we heard from the government at the time and from you was emphasis on this video that that had created the attack. the charges that there was a political pressure to make the case more about the video than to talk about terrorism. >> well, i just don't think that's fair i'm going to testify about this at the end of october before the committee looking into this. i think it's eighth investigation that congress has conducted.

there were two things going on simultaneously. i and others said that we were attacked, no doubt about that. that video which was still spinning through the world was being mentioned on social media, we had people climbing the walls at our embassy in cairo even before the attack and benghazi we had a lot of other attacks. i had to call the president, one of our neighboring countries to try to get them to help protect our embassy. i was worried about everything that was going on. and how people were responding to that, from north africa, to pakistan, all the way to indonesia. >> dickerson: political pressure to keep the story kind of a little more favorable in the administration. >> all i can tell you i never felt any political pressure or feel political reason to do anything other than what we tried to do which was immediately deal with the problems that were coming at us. >> dickerson: some questions about benghazi led to discovery

of your personal server if we use this episode as a way to think about the way would you run your presidency. let's say a clinton headquarters, the e-mail situation from the day you decided yes, to have the server. what went well, what didn't go so well? >> look, i've said that i didn't make the best choice. i should have used two separate e-mail accounts, one personal, one work related, what i did was allowed, it was above board. people in the government certainly knew that i was using a personal e-mail. but i tried to be transparent. and that includes releasing 55,000 pages, which sun precedented, nobody else that i'm aware of has ever done that, plus turning over the server, plus testifying at the end of october. i think people have questions, i want to try to answer them. >> dickerson: failure in judgment on your smart. >> it was permitted, it was allowed, i did it. i think that people can make their own judgments about that. but i've tried to be as transparent as i can. >> dickerson: you talked a lot

about transparency, when you think about trust, been a lot of talk about that in your campaign questions. maybe related to this, trust and transparency are related, you've been transparent, released these e-mails but what about before, there was a period where you held on to the whole kit and could caboodle before any investigators were asking for it long after you were out of the state department it. >> wasn't that long, what i did was to send e-mails to people at their government accounts which i have ever reason to believe would be captured on the government systems. when we were asked to help the state department make sure they had everything from other secretaries of state, not just me, i said, okay, great, i'll go through them again. we provided all of them and more than 90% were already in the system in fact i gave so many that were not work related just to be as comprehensive as possible, they are already sending back about 1200 of them. did i what was as i said

allowed, i said it wasn't the best choice. turned out to be a mistake in retrospect at the time, given the fact that most of them were in the government systems, people are going to get a chance to see all kinds of behind the scenes conversations, most of which i'm embarrassed to say are kind of boring. >> dickerson: to button this up here, you said you were sorry. >> yeah. dickerson: what exactly are you sorry for and to whom? >> well, you know, i'm sorry that i made a choice that has raised all of these questions. because i don't like reading the people have questions about what i did and how i did it i'm proud of the work we did at the state department. professionals i worked with, i'm proud of the people who came in with me and we got sanctions on iran put together that international coalition, got a new arms treaty with russia we did lot of important work. i want that to be the foal us of what people know about my tenure at the state department. >> dickerson: some people know

you have worked with you say what this e-mail situation suggests is that there's nobody around you who can say, secretary clinton, it's a bad idea, don't do this, do you have such a person? >> i have too many, actually. dickerson: before the fact not after. after serve giving you advice. >> ha is done by higher government officials including -- >> dickerson: not solely server just for you. >> it was done by others. let me just say that, yes, when i did it it was allowed, it was above board. now i'm being transparent as possible more than anybody else ever has been. >> dickerson: all right. secretary clinton, we'll pause right there. we'll be back in one more minute with more from secretary clinton. stay with us. i'm watson. and today hundreds of companies are putting me to work. i'm teaching watson to help your vet speak dog. you're a dog, right?

i'm teaching watson to help design a vacation around your personality. don't judge. i'm teaching watson to answer endless questions. how big is infinity? where do babies come from? why can't i have chocolate for breakfast? i'm watson and i'm ready to work with you. >> dickerson: we're back now with secretary clinton.

secretary clinton, donald trump had a supporter suggest the president was muslim not an american. donald trump continues to say nothing about that. are politicians on the hook for every crazy thing one of their supporters stands up and says? >> of course not, we all have supporters who may say things that we don't agree with. but when you are add an event and someone stands up and says something like that in front of you, then i do think you have a responsibility to respond. john mccain did back in the '08 campaign when somebody, one of his events said something similarly, untrue, and insulting about the president. mccain stopped that person. that's what donald trump should have done. i said the other day, he is fueling a level of paranoia and prejudice against all kinds of people. and when you light those fires, you better recognize that they

and he should start dampening them down and putting them out. he wants to talk about what he would do as president, that's obviously fair game. but to play in to some of the worst impulse, that people have these days that are really being lit up by the internet and other conspiracy-minded theories is just irresponsible. >> dickerson: which republican would you like to run against? >> john, notify -- i have no vote in that i'll run against whoever they put up against me. >> dickerson: are you doing anything to prepare for -- is your campaign doing anything? >> no, we're not. because this is such a personal decision. and the vice president has to sort this out. he's been so open in talking about how difficult this time is for him and his family and he's obviously considering what he wants to do, including whether he wants to run. and i just have the greatest respect and affection for him.

i think everybody just ought to give him the space to decide what is best for him and his family. >> dickerson: bernie sanders has made quite a point of not attacking you. he says he's not going to run any negative ads, would you pledge to do the same thing with him, not attack him, also tell your supporters, say love? >> i want this to be about ideas. i know bernie, i respect his enthusiastic and intense advocacy of his ideas. that's what i want this campaign to be about. i hope people who support me respect that. election. obviously running because i think it's better for the country if a democrat who has the kind of approaches and sam use that my husband had and barack obama has follows this presidency. >> dickerson: you can mark that down as yes? >> i have no y interest in doing >> dickerson: you're going to talk about obamacare this week. >> yes, i am. dickerson: what is the big

proposals you're going to offer? >> first let me say it's time that we say that the debate over -- the supreme court has twice upheld it yet congress has voted more than 50 times to repeal it. let's get beyond that, enough is enough. and we need to strengthen it not scrap it. it is the core of how we're going to provide health care to americans going forward, the 16 million. but there are other benefits to it that people who are not on the exchanges are being able to take advantage of. 158 million american women are no longer charged more for health care because of our gender. young people can stay on their parents' policies until they're 26 if you have preexisting can't shut you out. we have a lot of positive. but there are issues that need to be addressed. i'm going to address them this week starting with how we're going to try to control the costs of skyrocketing prescription drugs. it's something that i hear about wherever i go. as part of the plan i'll be

rolling out in the next few days. >> dickerson: let me ask you videos. have you watched them? >> i've seen excerpts from them. i certainly read about them. what i am troubled by are the misleading, inaccurate allegations about them we heard debate. this is really an attack on planned parent hood which provides a lot of health services from cancer screenings to contraceptive services to so many other of the needs women have. to shut down the government which some republicans are advocating over funding for planned parenthood which takes care of millions of health needs. >> dickerson: policy debate this turned into. what was your action when you watched them? >> as planned parenthood has said these were misleadingly edited they were intention physically intentionally taken out of context. the fact is if we want to have

debate in this country about whether we should continue using -- doing fetal research it's not only planned parenthood that should be involved in that debate. all of the experts, all of the scientists, all of the research institutions, everybody who is looking to cure parkinson's, for we continue this. so far as i am aware, what they did despite the way it was portrayed is within the laws that were set up nor. >> dickerson: this week senate will vote to impose federal ban on late term abortions do you support federal limit on owe portion at any stage of pregnancy? >> this is one of those really painful questions that people raise and obviously it's really emotional. i think that the kind of late term abortion, is that take place are because of medical necessity. and therefore, i would hate to see the government interfering

i think that again this gets back to whether you respect a woman's right to choose or not. and i think that is what this about. >> dickerson: in politics this year, it looks like everything wants an outsider. now that's what you -- can i put you -- >> i cannot imagine anyone being more of an outsider than the first woman president. really, let's think about that. >> dickerson: i agree. >> all these mothers and fathers bring me the place mats with all the presidents and they bring their daughters they say, my daughter has a question for you. the daughter says, how come there are no girls on this place mat? >> dickerson: i agree that is -- that's a pretty big >> dickerson: you know what i'm asking. >> i know you're asking do we want people who have never been elected to anything who have no political experience, who never made any hard choices in the public arena, voters will have to decide that. >> dickerson: but they worry that people who are inside are too inside.

that that's why the economic situation is tilted against the middle class. it's why they always feel like everybody can wiggle around the rules, that's something you have to deal with, right? >> course it is. that's why i have an economic policy that is on raising information. i think what we inherited from the bush administration, what president obama had to deal with had potential of becoming a great depression not just a great recession. we have now recovered 1 million jobs after losing 800,000 a month when he came into office. why would we go back to the same policies, call them insider, call them tilted toward the rich, giving corporations a free pass to do whatever they want. i'm against that. i've always been against that. i want to go back to economic policies where we create millions of new jobs and where people's incomes rise not just at the top but in the middle and at the bottom like they did under my husband. i'm not running for the third term, it would be really foolish not to say, you know, that worked better than what the republicans offer. >> dickerson: what role should

wall street pli in the economy? >> we need financial markets but they need to be put on notice that any of their behaviors that impact main street, that disrupt the kind of orderly processing of financial transactions because high frequency trading is now going to be making decisions in nanoseconds. or fooling around as they did in the '80s in packaging mortgage securities in way that really bombed us in to the great resection. i don't think any financial institution, not just banks, because i think it's important to recognize, there are a lot of financial institutions. ai g.i. was a problem. lehman brothers went bankrupt. they were not banks in the traditional sense. we need reign in the risks posed. >> dickerson: final question. your friend late diane blair wrote in her diary, quote, on her death bed. not going to do phony makeovers. knowing you don't want tone

us three words that is the real hillary clinton. just three. >> i can't possibly do that. i mean, look, i am a real person. with all the pluses and mine enthuses go along with being that. and i've been in the public eye for so long that i think, it's like the feature that you see in some magazines sometimes, real people actually go shopping. >> dickerson: all right. i'll have to interrupt you. hillary clinton. democrat presidential hillary clinton we hope to talk to you

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>> dickerson: joining me is republican presidential candidate and kentucky censor rand paul. you heard secretary clinton, what did you think? >> you know i thought one of the most interesting parts was refugee crisis. and i think frankly that hillary clinton bears some of the responsibility for the crisis. thomas freedman wrote an op ed saying that basically iran and saudi arabia had been arsonists throwing gasoline on flames there. but in way so has hillary clinton's policy of putting arms into that situation. they say give them to the good people. it wasn't possible to find the good people many of the good people were al qaeda and some of these people became isis. it was a bad idea, continues to be bad idea to arm the allies of isis to arm thal ice of al qaeda. >> dickerson: what would you do in this situation? >> bad people on both sides.

assad is a person who gassed his own people, on the other side you have really the remnants of the people who attacked us or people with similar ideology to al qaeda. arming either sides was a mistake. but there are people caught in the middle. two million christians in syria they're bought in the middle if you ask them who they rather have assas or isis all tell you assad. even though ba as he is, christians are a little safer under assad than under isis, we shouldn't do anything to push back assad or to bomb assad or defeat assad because really what that does is it opens the space for isis. >> dickerson: what did you think about secretary's idea of 65,000 syrian refugees coming to the united states? >> my first thought is some of the arsonists should accept them. saudi arabia doesn't seem to be willing to take any. shiite muslims and saudi arabia won't take them, why would not iran want to accept them. these are the people who have been stoking the films over there.

pouring arms, all the rich sheik-doms aren't they? >> the argument that the united states when it does this kind of thing, plays leading role in the world. that that is way in which the united states gets out of situation finds in than more war-like. >> one of the great deal of sympathy of the people that are displaced you can't see the pictures of the young boy that drowned over there not have great deal of sympathy. there are private groups trying to bring people. there is project trying to bring christians to our country. i think we do have to be a little bit weary we brought 65,000 from iraq after the iraq war, part of me says, we won the war, why wouldn't people who wanted them to stay in iraq help rebuild the country. why take out 65,000 of the best people. in this situation there's not really a choice. those 65,000 people are the hundreds of thousands of people are stranded. but at the same time, i think we have to go to first causes as to

what caused it in the first place. and try not to -- at least learn from the experience and not throw gasoline on these wars. what do do in the immediate aftermath some of the 65,000 came from iraq after were trying to buy missiles in my hometown of kentucky. be weary of the threat of mass migration. >> dickerson: that's what the gentleman talks about the president being muslim and that he -- that's what he was talking about is the danger from that. should donald trump have said mig? >> i don't think we shouldn't question the president's faith that is kind of crazy someone does, we should rebuke. that getting back to sort of this mass migration, there was an article about some of the people coming in listed 19-year-old boy from afghanistan his only paperwork was hungarian political asylum no. other paperwork, no passport. we'd be foolish to say there's no danger. from mass migration. so we need to be very weary of that.

people who visit our country on student visas, auto i am for ending it but for really understanding who is coming to visit our country before they come. >> dickerson: this issue led to ben carson said that he would not feel comfortable if a muslim was president. what do you make that have? >> well, i think, it's not so much what religion you are it's what you stand for. i don't think that we're really anywhere near that happening because small minority in our population. but i think the hard part is, while we are very pureistic society. more free than any other country the people have been attacking us, it's hard to separate. that i understand people saying, my goodness, you know -- >> dickerson: would you have problem with the muslim president though? >> i try to see that as a separate thing, someone's religion. i just think that it's hard for us, we were attacked by people who were all muslim, it's

incumbent, this is what i've been saying all along, civilized islam needs to step up say this doesn't represent us. i know they d. but i don't hear enough of it. i need to hear more of it. frankly think that saudi arabia often stoked the films of radical islam instead of trying to be helpful. >> dickerson: wouldn't have problem with that. let me ask you about debate over planned parenthood and, the president of the nationality right to life has said that while nobody wants to be in front of planned parenthood that is threatening a government shut down actually hurts the cause. what do you think that have argument? >> i think we're missing sort of the bigger picture on everything. not just planned parenthood. we borrowed million dollars a maybe if you do continuing resolution you're acknowledging that the government vote and you'll vote to continue spending money at rate that is unsustainable. not just planned parenthood it's everything. tables. everybody saying, we have to have 60 votes to defund planned parenthood we should be saying

the opposite. to 60 votes to fund planned parenthood and everything in government we'd need to start from scratch which means, yes, hold the line and i'm for saying, let's put hundreds if not thousands of restrictions on all the spending. that's how congress should assert themselves. we have a path to congress that is basically advocating their that's a problem. i would hold the line. if i were in charge of congress i'd put forward spending i would say, this is what it is. and democrats don't vote for it then democrats would be shutting down government. >> dickerson: whose fault is it that congress doesn't act in the way you'd like, particularly republicans. >> congress has been advocating its sole as hundreds of years, probably back to the time of woodrow wilson. it's gotten worse, it's twofold. one president obama is frustrated because he can't get anything passed. he grabs more and more power. if congress let's him do it, it's because we don't pass any of the appropriation bills. and it's been 40 years since we

bills. that's our job. one reason i won't vote for any continuing resolution, period, i won't vote for any of them not the way we should do business, nothing gets fixed if you vote for continuing resolution, voted for the status quo. >> dickerson: what you i do the government shuts down? >> i hope that it doesn't continue on without reform. that's different way of putting it. but i would put forward spending bills, i would say to the democrats, need to vote for them or you shut down government or you come and negotiate with us. right now there's no negotiation because we just acknowledge, we don't have 60 votes to stop any funding but it's our job in the american people, particularly republicans, you wonder why outsiders are doing on the polls it's because the republicans in washington are doing nothing to reign in spending. on anything. >> dickerson: final question. as i talked about with secretary clinton there's a big appetite for outsiders. that's what he said about you -- >> they still do. dickerson: but polls at the

to like other kinds of outsiders, what do you think accounts for that? is senator a dirty word? >> i ran for office because i was unhappy about washington, i still am. the more i see washington, the more unhappy i am of how thing are disfunctional and don't work. limits. i would throw everybody out, myself included, i'm serious. we need to start afresh. 12 years is more than enough time in the senate, more than enough time in the house would get nor turnover. the status quo remains because the same people remain, decade after decade. i think sometimes they harken back back to electorate that elected them in 1908 or 1976 that is not today's electorate they have not kept up with the times. the people, the public about a decade ahead of government but you need more turnover in government and right now people are upset and unhappy and rightly so. i'm one of them. >> dickerson: senator rand paul, thanks so much for being with

stay with us. push your enterprise and you can move the world. but to get from the old way to the new, you'll need the right it infrastructure. from a partner who knows how to make your enterprise more agile, borderless and secure. hp helps business move on all the possibilities of today. and stay ready for everything that is still to come. >> dickerson: we're back with our panel, peg knee noonan, jamelle bouie the political correspondent, ron brownstein ed turnoverial direct or at the national journal and michael gerson for the "washington post." peggy, what did you think of secretary clinton's interview?

i thought it was quite composed. direct, quite collected. it isn't that she changed, i think, many of the things she's been saying for awhile but she seemed mostly comfortable. my own view was that she made mistakes on the issue of planned parenthood and late-term abortion when she didn't give an inch. she essentially said, planned parenthood, just fine. late-term abortion, very complicated but, no, she won't be opposing it. these are issues that i think people are ready to be very thoughtful on, compromising on and not extreme on. i think we'll be hearing something about that. >> i was struck by how conversational she was. often gets on a news interview her shoulders kind of metaphorically clench, she had her daytime demeanor, she was very approachable. maybe a little overly dismisstive i think of the

but i was struck by how much she was trying to let people in, this idea that i'm a real person. her real challenge the e-mail is not going away, is that the only thing. can she fill the other side of the ledger. people for whom this will disqualify her. the questions she convince most americans that there's more to her than what she is now admitting was a mistake. >> dickerson: this comes at a time in strategy for clinton campaign where they're trying to put her more out in front. assess where that strategy stands, where her campaign stands? >> i think it was on friday or thursday she did a town hall, but some kind of event in new hampshire on substance abuse. it was her and people that spoke to the people very conversational, very sort of casual. if those are the kind of events and strategy it's focused on i think it's going pretty well. she came across very well during that event. i think reaching millions of

people, but consistently, steadily, over the course of couple of months it reaches a lot of people. it does show people a different side of clinton that you see in an actual interview or speech. >> i do think that the campaign often has flaw of saying, we need to be more transparent and human. like, actually, you need to be more transparent. i think she did some of that today. she was casual, maybe somewhat forced casual but she responded really well. but i think democrats are urgency. her approval numbers are the lows they have ever been. lower than any time in 2008 lost ground on women. this is a serious problem here. and vice president biden gets into the race it would be very serious race. >> the question is, what is the remedy to the problem. clinton was re-elected on the day he was re-elected majority

trustworthy. that by itself is not a disqualifying variable. the he survive he cared for people like them, was focused on their problems was trying to make things better. i think it is more likely the issue -- if she recovers from a very low point she's going to recover more by improving on that front than radically honesty. i think you can make that -- never going to be ideal for her, the core question for her americans that she understands their problems after being in powerful positions for 20 years as you pointed out, that she has solutions relevant to those problems. go. no question whether she can get there. >> ron pointed out, when i said, looking for change, there have been -- the first woman. that's quite true. that would be historic. but we know that that is not what the -- what is your reaction to that? >> is she -- mrs. clinton has

been part of the american establishment operating as part of american national political life for a quarter century now. of course she is not -- you couldn't be more an insider, interestingly, if joe biden does decide to come up against her will be another insider not an outsider going up against her. i think part of what she's doing now is simply thinking, i can't dodge the press on all of these issues that are besetting me, i look defensive. she's come out here, i think she'll be coming out probably a great deal more as we see what happens with mr. biden and -- >> and low poll numbers. >> all politician. >> i'm not actually sure democratic electorate is -- if you look at the people who have

the highest poll totals they are secretary clinton and joe biden. >> dickerson: let's switch to republican side. there was debate last week, donald trump. where does he stand coming out of that debate, he's been leader at the top of the polls, give us your assessment. >> it was really mixed. because the trump issues to some extent did dominate. jeb bush announced the tax plan since the last debate. walker announced health care plan, none of that was discussed. 14th amendment was discussed. throw in 11 million people out of the country was discussed. that is still i think, dominated republican discourse. trump himself was tired, repetitive. i think not very impressive. >> dickerson: you are not suggesting low energy? >> that's the worst thing that donald trump can be is warring. that is how he will eventually

no longer an entertainment. >> dickerson: ron, you often found creative ways to understand the coalition in these parties. what is the shape of the republican coalition, given that we have 16 candidates? >> it's real interesting. one of the things this election showing, coalition is different than any think. the fact is over the past generation, since the 1960s, much of the working class is realigned from the democratic party, from the fdr coalition to the republican party. this is changing the nature of the republican voting electorate. half of the republican voters in both 2012 and 2008 in the primaries, were voters without a college education. and that is a clear fish urine right before the debate was 40% in 16 person field there was 40% among republicans without a college education only 20% among those with a college education. if you look at the blue collar republicans probably the most alienated element of american society. in fact they support an awful lot of what donald trump was

majority of noncollege republicans would deport all 11 million people. 60% of those say it bothers when they hear people speaking a foreign language. he has an audience there. the questions what he does feed that audience, raises the barriers with the rest of the party as polling some resistance in that white collar -- the question here is not whether that group will win. i think that sun likely the question is whether the republican coalition that includes that group can win national elections, increasingly diverse country. >> not just diversity there is pressure on both sides. you have obviously alienates american, asian americans and other americans. they may not vote for democrats but may not just come out. >> but you know what, trump sort of reminds you when you see him, even when he somehow reminds you just by his being of how much

you hate the current american political system and those who populate it. i think the challenge for him now is to try to hold ton what he's got and try to move forward by reminding people how much they hate what there is now. >> dickerson: michael, what about carly fiorina. she has done well how does she capitalize. >> i think she won her debate. her first debate. she won the second debate. if you want to win the president sees by debate we'd -- she is very strong candidate. she is the outsider who knows a lot. actually converse sieve with issues. understands foreign policy. intervenes effectively. this is outsider with clear campaign skills. she did in california lose pretty badly. she lost it on her business record, which looks too wobbley. so there's -- has not had the

>> about to get pounded. dickerson: vulnerability, no question about that. >> the polls are moving so much after each of these debate is self invalidating the fact that they can move that much with one debate is a sign that they probably don't need all that much to begin with. but i -- >> what did we do with -- >> there really are two races going on in the republican party two. distinct brackets. you have this populous, more blue collar that has trump, carson, that has huckabee, santorum, jindal, walker, ted cruz right at the top. then you have bush, kasich, rubio, first group more focused on iowa the second on new hampshire. history says that each of those brackets will produce unall likelihood one of the finalists. >> dickerson: who do you think in that other group who did poorly in this debate.

did anybody slip really? >> i think walker did very poorly. i joked while watching it that he spoke at the second hour of da debate, walker is alive, he's here. the post debate polls were indicative that he just disappeared. rubio and kasich did extremely well. i think they both came across very knowledgeable, very smart, i think rubio although some of his lines felt a bit rehearsed, delivered extremely well kind of showing an ability to connect policy to biography to political message that not really anyone else in that field has. >> he sedan interesting thing, where he doesn't put himself forward but he waits for the game to come to him and when it does, he gets a hit. funny thing to say. >> the way they connected -- fact is, is that i think -- in all likelihood you will have an outsider populous who will emerge and in the -- gets down to march and beyond

have someone more from the center right. establishment bracket, rubio i think his big question which bracket is he ultimately playing in s. he iowa outsider guy or new hampshire insider guy? >> right. mr. gerson, the last word. >> the question here is whether the establishment is going to work. both bush and clinton are taking the establishment back, you build your organization, your structure, you have money, you do all these things. it's usually been a good bet. except in 1964 and 1972. the question was, is this year different. will the establishment bet work? >> dickerson: all right. michael gerson gets the last word.

we'll be right back. this is a story about doers, the artificial heart, electric guitars and rockets to the moon. it's the story of america- land of the doers. doin' it. did it. done. doers built this country. the dams and the railroads. john henry was a steel drivin' man hmm, catchy. they built the golden gates and the empire states. and all this doin' takes energy -no matter who's doin'. there's all kinds of doin' up in here. or what they're doin'. what the heck's he doin? energy got us here. and it's our job to make sure there's enough to keep doers doin' the stuff doers do...

>> dickerson: the hope is come to town and washington is going to come to a halt. the streets will close and crowds will greet i am everywhere he goes. he is going to interrupt the daily flow of thing, at least logistically. politics is not likely to be" ripped, though. the pope will address a joint session of congress on thursday. one member is boycotting because he disagrees with the position

those wishing to defund planned parenthood will take comfort from the pope's message which has no room for abortion. the excesses of capitalism will ruffle a lot of those same people. same sex marriage supporters have already been protesting the church's position in advance of his visit. the pomp and ceremony will be enormous in washington then later in philadelphia and new york. the pope will travel in his special car and receive the beaming faces of the most powerful people in america. donald trump might very well be jealous. but as leader of the fractured institution that is mending his lesson for the leaders of broken political institution doesn't come from the ceremony, it comes from the smaller visits he makes to prisons where he washes the feet of inmates. and into the crowds at mass where he kissed the disfigured face of a man and prayed with him. it's a message of humility and service to the poor. a hope that after the streets reopen and everyone is seen will

all take attention to the people we pass on the street every day and never see. just stay calm and move as quietly as possible. no sudden movements.

tt2watx#`o4 p bt@q>v8 tt2watx#`o4 p "a@q.z\ tt2watx#`o4 p bm@q%qp tt4watx#`o4 r dztq yah tt4watx#`o4 r entq )e( tt4watx#`o4 r gzt& 0bp >> dickerson: that's it for us today. thanks for watching.