slammed into a group of trick or treaters and killing a 10- year-old girl and her grandfather. the new information on the victims. >> and >> from washington, "the mclaughlin group," the american original. for over three decades, the sharpest minds, best sources, hardest talk. john: issue one -- debate or derision? cruz: you look at the questions, donald trump, are you a comic book villain? ben carson, can you do math? john kasich, will you insult two people over here? marco rubio, why dont you resign? jeb bush, why have your numbers fallen? john: senator ted cruz, one of 14 g.o.p. presidential candidates, satirizing the questions in wednesdays cnbc 2016 republican presidential debate, held at the university of colorado, in boulder. but get this -- the debate lasted two hours -- apparently

ultimatum! ben. we called ben, he was with me 100%. we called in, we said were not doing it. they lost a lot of money, everybody said it couldnt be done, everybody said it was going to be three hours/three and half including them, and in about two minutes, i renegotiated it down to two hours so we can get the hell out of here. not bad. [laughter] john: question, what do cruz and trump have in common? pat: there are both unapologetic individuals. they talk back to political correctness. they like to fight, they're outspoken. they take strong stands. they have great appeal to the so-called middle american radicals, a major movement in america over the years and i think the two of them -- both were winners in that debate, partly or almost entirely because of the stuff tough stance they took.

cruz and cruz has been courting trump really from the beginning. they're like two people in a trump is in the lead and cruz is right behind him ready to take over in case trump should fade, which everyone expects at some point some of his voters will be available to move to another camp. cruz is the natural recipients. he also has a lot of money, big donors. he has a structure he's put in place. the presidency. until this debate. he even showed a sense of humor, which softens that hardline dracula image that he's perfected on capitol hill. so he's the one to watch, especially if trump does begin to fade, although there's always the possibility trump doesn't fade. pat: i agree with everything eleanor said. i think he's right in the slip

john: let's talk about facts related to this. obama missed 63.3% of votes during his 2008 bid. pat: you're talking about the rubio-jeb bush shot. john: while kerry missed 98 .% while run for president in 2004. graham was absent for 37% of votes during his short-lived campaign. pat: you're talking about rubio's shot at jeb bush, which was enormously successful. clarence: although i don't know of anyone whose vote has turned on the record in the senate. eleanor: senator rubio was on the senate floor recently saying people who work for the v.a., if they don't do their job should be fired or maybe they should quit. it's a little hypocritical. tom: that's a fact that jeb bush is very, very concerned with

marco rubio. marco. the initiative, if you will, is with marco rubio and that jeb bush did not have a good debate. he seemed lackluster and his challenge to rubio didn't work. and rubio is playing off that. the bush campaign is in crisis mode right now, no question. pat: i think jeb bush has got to take down rubio soon. my guess is you'll see attack ads from super pacs and things like that. you're right. those two are in the same lane and only one is going to make it to the finals. eleanor: but bush shouldn't be doing that personally. first of all, it's not in his nature. he looks extremely awkward doing it. the media is going to start going after florida. his record in florida, and absence of doing anything in the senate, aside from not showing up for votes. pat: my prediction, the establishment is going to move to rubio because he's the one closest to them with the best shot of winning it in the long

some people to accept but i suspect he's saturated out. he's trying to move into an area that rubeo and bush have occupied and i don't think he can puncture his way in eleanor: a high-performing ohio. no republican has won the presidency without ohio. he's got a path to the number one or number two spot on the ticket. clarence: he's going to lose the idea of running for pennsylvania have the, which is what people think of him right now. which is too bad. i was watching kasich and he reminded me of jimmy stewart in "mr. smith goes to washington." john: who played the role? jimmy stewart. did you finish the point you were making? eleanor: yeah, i think kasich basically kicked the door open for criticizing of the field then he kind of backed away and other candidates walked through it. i thought rubio and cruz did better. pat: kasich's problem is, very smart, capable. he'd be an excellent budget

director, excellent cabinet officer. the persona is too angry and too hot for television. it is not cool. that's one of his problems. he came off with too angry with these folks. sense of humor? is showing. john: if my memory is correct and, of course it is, i recall that on two of the post-debate collections of journalists having a drink and talking to each other in gatherings after the debate. large gatherings, the number that came up as number one was john kasich. do you remember that? tom: he's popular because he is a moderate so people would like him to respect more of the party brand but i don't see how he gets past rubio. eleanor: there are several more

debates. there's still time here. it's too early to pronounce any of these candidates as dead and gone. john: you mentioned rubio. therefore, we can go to medicare and social security with rubio. and here's marco rubio on entitlement reform. rubio: we're talking about reforms for future generation. my mother is on medicare and social security. i'm against anything that's bad for my mother. john: any thoughts on that? pat: what marco rubio is doing, as oopposed to chris christie, who is very, if you, will responsible. he said we're going to have to cut entitlement growth. marco rubio was saying all you folks getting social security and medicare, i am no threat to you. they'll maintain at what it is and we'll look at reforms down the road, which politically is the right position to be in. whether it's the most responsible, clarence, i'm not sure.

working against this image who's this kid who might threaten by social security. hey, i have a mom, i wouldn't hurt you, blah, blah. tom: that's the only way to do it. eleanor: even chris christie is not going to go after current recipients or anything like that. you know, this was supposed to be an economic detective. i didn't hear much. they all trotted out these fantasies about a flat tax. pat: you're right. where is the transpacific partnership, trade deficits, q.e. 3? except for auditting the federal reserve, nothing. john: they talked about the tax code and i have it here. pat: but the panel was defirst quarter. john: marco rubio and bush and chris christie. previously proposed cutting current tax rates to 8% to 35% depending on the bracket with various reforms to marriage and child credits and capital gains, corporate and estate taxes.

carson and rand paul said they support replacing the current tax system with a simpler form of a flat tax. pat: they are but nothing like that is ever going to get through but they all have their tax plan. the major issue coming up is the transpacific partnership trade deal. bernie is against it, trump is against it. a real conflict there and a great issue. they didn't even bring it up. eleanor: even their tax plans they all highly reward top earners when the big challenge facing the country is income disparity. i don't think anybody out there is screaming they want more trickle-down economics. clarence: at one point their plans don't work. ben carson was told your flat tax or your tithing tax is not going to pay the bill. he said oh, yes, they will. they're wrong. tom: yes, kasich was right to

point that out. but at the same time, look, with hillary clinton's plans, with the expanding state, with more spending. with this idea that the taxes can go to the top. which europe has proved doesn't work. at some point you to have tax at lower levels. if interest rates go up because of that pressure, who loses out? let's have a mass debate and that's why i think paul ryan is good. pat: they have a flat tax and they're talking flat tax because politically that has enormous appeal to the republican base and the entire republican party. supply siders, and pop -- populists. get all those tax rates down. taxes. john: mike huckabee, he called these plans, the tax arrangements that were mentioned here and you've tried to discuss. these plans are "putting lipstick on a pig." and told cnbc he would promote replacing income tax and the end of the i.r.s. with a higher

sales tax. what do you think of that? tom: honestly, i'm happy for huckabee because this is a guy -- i think he's someone with very little credibility. and i would prefer that we had a system where the tax code is massively simplified and more efficient. you can have lower rates and a bit for revenue. at the same time you cannot just have a sales tax. that would kill poor people in america. pat: you could put a 20% tariff on all imports, you get $600 billion and eliminate the corporate tax. why didn't somebody ask trump, you seem to be a protectionist. would you put on a tariff and if yes, how high? ask the others what they think. eleanor: i don't like to criticize my colleagues and journalists. pat: go ahead. john: feel free. eleanor: you don't want to just

their stump speech. that's what they'd like to do, through. again, this was supposed to be they should have drilled down on economic issues. if they did a round of everybody what they thought of the federal reserve, we might have heard solid information. there were ways to elicit information where you found out something more about these candidates. pat: fantasy football. should it be regulated? clarence: that's a regulation issue. they didn't answer the question anyway. tom: we actually should have had eleanor and clarence there because those moderators there were asking -- it showed me -- there was an arrogance, right, that they wanted to make it a -- and they didn't care. clarence: the worst moment of the evening i thought was when the one woman questioned trump and he denied that he had said what he said and she said where did i read that? asking trump where she read

jim: the audience for the cnbc debate was how many million? pat: 14 million. john: why so far below the first two republican debates? how many in the first? pat: 25 million, fox. john: what was the second one? 22. you have to get with it. 23. pat: you're reading from your card now. [laughter] the presidential debates that had to compete with a world series baseball game. pat: also on a much smaller network. john: rank has its privileges. pat: look, john, one of the reasons it's smaller. we all tune in at one time or another to ms, fox, cnn. we all don't tune into the cnbc business channel. eleanor: it was a big all of a sudden for them. john: huge.

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or bleeding problems. you know xarelto is the #1 prescribed blood thinner in its class. that's a big win. it is for me. with xarelto there is no regular blood monitoring and no known dietary strictions. treatment with xarelto . ...was the right move for us. ask your doctor about xarelto . john: issue two -- a new speaker, a new deal. ryan: about the process i can say this -- i think this process stinks. boehner: the honorable paul d. ryan of the state of wisconsin, having received a majority of the votes cast, is duly elected as speaker of the house. [applause]

house is broken. were not solving problems, were adding to them. only a fully functioning house can truly represent the people, and if there were ever a time for us to step up, this would be that time. john: paul ryan, new speaker of the u.s. house of representatives, took office on thursday, pledging to make politics work better. but on wednesday, before mr. ryan took the speakers gavel, the house of representatives passed a major bipartisan budget deal. here are its eight key elements -- first, government spending. it will increase by a total of $50 billion in 2016, and $30 billion in 2017. the increases will be split equally between defense and domestic programs, but an additional $31 billion will also

spending over two years. second, $168 billion in long-term savings will be made by reforming the social security disability fund. third, a 2% cut in medicare payments to some healthcare providers will stay. fourth, companies will no longer have to automatically enroll employees with health insurance. fifth, $8 billion will be allocated to prevent medicare premium hikes that some beneficiaries were expecting next year. six, generic drug companies will have to pay higher rebates to state medicare funds if and when drug prices rise above inflation. seven, to generate revenue, oil will be sold from the strategic petroleum reserve.

eight, the u.s. debt borrowing limit will be lifted until 2017. the deal is expected to be passed by the senate this weekend and signed into law by president obama shortly thereafter. is this budget a good deal or a bad deal? eleanor: it's a good deal and it couldn't have happened if john boehner hadn't resigned. he basically gave up the speakership because he knew he would have been forced out if he'd tried to put through this budget. the house republicans have come to terms with an interim honeymoon that allows boehner to leave cleaning out the barn, as he puts it. this budget will take the administration to the end of obama's term, give the new president a year without having to worry about the debt ceiling. in a dysfunctional government it's amazing they got this done. it's a small-bore deal in the great scheme of things but it's

positive. both parties win. tom: it's a reflection of the fact that republicans are in a position that they would moving election. there's a positive in my generation, beginning of reforms to entitlements, we have to see that happen. but i do have a concern. number one, i think it's an president obama's responsibility to say no defense spending without my domestic increases. but also, if you look at the spending we have at the moment, the percentage of g.d.p., it is a problem. the curve says it's going to increase again. that puts interest rates, my generation gets screwed. pat: ryan says the process stinks. republicans got 247, 248 house seats and he says the house is broken? this was an orderly republican retreat to a new line of defense maybe in 2017 or something like that. they caved in.

they've broken the spending caps here and nancy pelosi has a victory and republicans, all they got is -- they didn't want a fight so they didn't fight. they lost. clarence: they couldn't have done it if boehner hadn't resigned, that's the thing. he had to throw his body down on the sword to get this through. they weren't able to cut down on medicare spending without breaking out in hives. this is a real issue. the house is so fractious right now and the senate to a certain degree it's remarkable they got anything through and were able to head off any more threats of debt ceiling cree seize over the next two years. and that's saying something 6. eleanor: it's huge. tom: but clearly it is a victory for the democrats. they have got more of what they wanted. clarence: it's a victory for america. we have a budget, we don't have

everybody wins. john: a very prominent republican said this about the ryan plan to me. he said it's a good deal because a political stalemate over the debt ceiling now would have rattled economic confidence at a time when third quarter growth has dropped to 1.5% and the markets are nervous, they're jittery. you agree with that? clarence: absolutely. the one thing markets care about is stability in washington, as long as we're not on the brink of something. we've been facing brinkmanship now for years. pat: the dow has been going up but there is a truth in this. if republicans had done the right thing they wouldn't have shut down the government but they would have been blamed for it. no debt ceiling, they would have been blamed for the whole thing. not the senate or the president but the republicans until they said we give up. eleanor: paul ryan is a quality human being and a quality

politician. it's a new generation so maybe there's some hope lies ahead for further breakthroughs. tom: 100% agree on that. and one final thing, the markets also want long-term confidence that we're going to resolve our debt issues. john: good point. woib with predictions. blinds to go's 60th anniversary sale is back... plus 1! woo-hoo! right now buy one get one at half price throughout the entire store. blinds. shades. sunscreens. the entire store!

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pat: angela merkel is on the way out. eleanor: mitt romney's idea of capping deductions for higher earners will make a comeback. tom: the leader of isis will be dead by the end of the year. which is great news. clarence: republicans are meeting with the networks and going to have a debate next time that will be much more to their liking. john: buenos aires mayor mauricio macri, the son of italian immigrants, will win the nov. 22 presidential runoff election. his center-right coalition, cambiemos, will bring peronist rule in argentina to an end after a 12-year happy stretch.