access.wgbh.org >> dickerson: today on "face the nation," european brace themselves for more terror attacks and belgians hoping to march for peace are told to stay home. investigation into the isis terror cell responsible for the belgium attacks, as arrests are made we'll have the latest on the hunt for those responsible. plus, we'll talk with secretary of state john kerry who says americans should not fear traveling abroad but should be on guard. how vulnerable the the united states to similar attacks? we'll ask new york deputy police commissioner john miller.

chairman mike mccaul. and 2016 politics big night for bernie sanders. >> we just won the state of washington. >> dickerson: and republican campaign believe it or not just gets nastier. we'll talk about that with our political panel. all ahead on "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs good morning, happy easter. pope francis in his easter mass this morning in st. peter's offered message of hope of tens of thousands while denouncing terrorism. it was confirmed yesterday that two americans were among the 28 victims who died in last week's belgium bombing along with the three attackers killed. stephanie and justin shults were dropping off family in brussels when the two bombs went off. meanwhile, belgian's charged three men, the investigation spread across europe showing the vast reach of the terrorist cell responsible.

latest. >> track the terror cell connected to the bombings. along the way uncovering evidence of much wider terrorist web. the series of raids as turned up clues including finners prints and d.n.a. that linked the bombers here to those who attacked paris last november. suspects have been charged with involvement in terrorist group and attempted terrorist murder. according to belgian media one is believed to be the mysterious man in the black hat caught on tv at the airport before the suicide bombings there. another suspect was shot in the leg at tram stop in the suburb where also week police uncover had they said was a bomb-making factory in an apartment. the threat is far from over. organizers called off planned march against fear in central brussels after authorities said would stretch already overburdened forces.

the attacks compare the injuries especially burns to what they expect in war zone in afghanistan. in their own twisted way, it seems the terrorist are getting better at what they do in every way. >> dickerson: thanks, allan. we sat down earlier this secretary of state john kerry who is just back from brussels. we asked him how worried he was about another terror attack in europe. >> well, i think everybody is concerned. because for several years now foreign fighters have been returning from syria or from other locations and implanting themselves in the communities. this is the threat this we've all been aware of. we've been looking for additional screening, we've been engaged actually with belgian authorities for some period of time now trying to fill gaps that they are aware exist. i think everybody is now geared up to recognize that the fight is not just in iraq and syria but the fight is wherever. >> officials admit that there

and this is after the attacks in paris what's the sense of urgency? >> great urgency. there's a sense of urgency. >> dickerson: but can they capture that? you're talking about 28 different countries. >> they have to. they really have to. i met with the president of the european commission yesterday. the prime minister of belgium made it very clear they know they need to move on these things. hopefully that will happen. it is essential to the long term fight. what is important for people to understand is that we are making real progress in iraq and sear california i mean real progress. in 2014 they began sweep across iraq that is when president obama ordered the in official bombing that stopped them from moving towards baghdad. since then we have recouped about 40% of the territory in syria which may have captured and we're taking out about one

three days of isil. we're making progress. it doesn't mean they're not a continuing threat, they are. probably more so now threat in some of these other areas where they try to prove they're viability. >> dickerson: you suggested that these latest attacks are in fact a sign that there are 'tomorrow create a call fed are collapsing? >> this is part of their plan. they put people in other places. those 'tax will take place whether or not they are collapsing. or hurting. but i think there are number of people who believe that their need to reinforce their narrative that even though they're under pressure they are still this viable force is way to recruit. only way for them to try to provide some added morale to people that we know are very much having morale problems in syria and iraq. >> dickerson: i'll ask you 'bow russia where you were. let's not leave europe. you suggested that americans

continue with their plans but, quote, exercise vigilance. what does that mean if i'm scheduling a say how do i know to exercise vigilance? >> it's really matter of common sense. but there are guidelines and the state department is ready to help anybody to understand exactly what that means. it means avoid a crowded place where you have no control over who may be there. have a sense of vigilance to watch who is around you, if you see a guy walking into an airport with a black glove in one hand nothing on the other and they are pushing a big suitcase, maybe that tells you something. there are things that you can be alert to. >> dickerson: that doesn't sound like a vacation. >> we live in a world today where unfort in thely we have to be vigilant. look at what happened in san bernadino. there street realities that there are dangers around. i don't want to scare anybody. i don't think you have to be.

terrorist are far less than the odds of an injury in the course of daily life, whether it's an accident in an automobile or home or elsewhere. people do not have to live in fear. but it doesn't mean should you be oblivious to your surroundings. plenty of ways to have good vacation. i would not tell any member of my family don't travel to europe or elsewhere, but i would say, do so with an awareness of what you're choosing to do, what activity you undertake and where you are. >> dickerson: you've been working with the russians on a cessation of violence in syria, how long until assad is out of power which is u.s. goal? >> i can't tell you that, if assad is not going to move to the side and go to the transition that iran and russia and all the other nations in the international security group have called for and supported. if he doesn't do that, there will not be peace in sear

california it is not discretionary choice that we're making where we say, assad must go because we simply want him to go. it's because you can't end the war while assad is there. >> dickerson: where are the russians on the question of post-'sass regime? >> they believe that the syrian people must decide in the context of this political process. >> dickerson: ask you about criticism with respect to russia. the argument is that putin has won in syria. that he has been able to get a foothold in the middle east because of u.s. policy. >> well, frankly, i find that ridiculous. russia has had a foothold. russia built the air defense system of syria. years ago. well, so, have at it. we have base access in turkey, we have bases all through middle

i see no threat whatsoever to the fact that russia has some additional foundation in syria where we don't want a base where. we are not looking for some kind of long-term presence. if russia can help stabilize and provide for a peace process that actually ends this war which is -- no, which is putting pressure on europe as well as pressure on jordan, on lebanon and creating an environment that threatens israel. talk about threats to israel, that turmoil is a threat to israel. so if russia can help us, and it is right now, russia has helped bring about the iran nuclear agreement. russia helped get the chemical weapons out of syria. russia now helping with the cessation of hostilities. and if russia can help us to

transition, that is all to the strategic interest of the united states of america. >> dickerson: finally on politics. the president was criticized for going to a baseball game in cuba after the brussels attack and the tango in argentina. what is your response to the credit things say, sticking with his schedule of discordant. >> my response is that to quote, you president of the united states' schedule not set by terrorist. the president of the united states has major diplomatic responsibilities,'s to engage with other countries. that was an important part of trying to build a relationship and achieve some of our goals. with respect to human rights, with respect to transformation in syria. and elsewhere. i think the president -- life doesn't stop because one terrible incident takes place in one place.

he talked to the prime minister of belgium from cuba. he talked to the foreign minister from cuba. and an fbi team went to belgium, is working with them now, we've been in direct contact every minute. so i don't think the president lost one tick, on the contrary he continued to what he had to do to engage in diplomacy that had been predecided on. >> dickerson: in response to the brussels bombing from the republicans we've gotten series of things. more talk about banning muslim immigrants, surveying mull muslim immigrants and waterboarding. you deal with people overseas does that seem circus of campaigning or any way which that rhetoric has any affect overseas? >> everywhere i go, every leader i meet, they ask about what is happening in america.

i think it is fair to say that they're shocked, they don't know where it's taking the united states of america. it upsets people's sense of equilibrium about our steadyings and reliability. to some degree i must say to you some of the questions the way they are posed to me clear to me what's happening is an embarrassment to our country. >> dickerson: secretary of state john kerry, thank you. we're joined now by new york deputy commissioner, john miller. i want to start with you, when there's an attack like this what is the immediate response of the nypd? >> the immediate response is to very quickly leverage our foreign posts we have a dozen detectives posted overseas, get to the people either where the attack is or in the region. they contact their partners, what we want to know is, what did the bad guys do. what was their machine, how did

then immediately start to apply protection against the light target sets or other vulnerable locations in new york. the idea is, john, in the first hours of these things, you never know whether this is a europe-based attack or mumbai attacks in india or the paris attacks, whether this is part of a global set of actions or whether it's isolated there. so, we usually go into an immediate response leveraging the 1500 people in counter terrorism and any other assets of the nypd. >> dickerson: first thing milwaukee sure there's not connection something might be ongoing in new york. then is there a period where you're learning, getting sense of what the new techniques and tactics are of these terrorists? >> well, it's a three-part process. first the immediate response. that happens automatically. it's mussel memory at this point we launched this last one at 4:00 in the morning and by rush hour we had entire city covered.

that new york connection s. there a u.s. nexus, is there a new york person involved. is there a person involved in europe who has new york connection drill down to make sure that we don't have the thread that needs to be chased here. the third piece is, actually going thereafter the attack. we've been to the museum in tunisia after the attack, with our great partners in the australian federal police in new south wales. i led a team to paris after the charlie ebb dough attacks. we study with the attack and response to see what we can bring back home to sharpen and hone our response. whether it's intelligence collection or the actual response of the incident. >> dickerson: one of the thing i keep reading about is how adaptable isis is. is that something that you noticed in these investigations that you've done, have they changed their techniques once law enforcement catches up to them?

organization, it is a learning organization. to counter them you have to at least be learning organization. so what we've seen over the arc of time, john, is that isil operated on idea that it would inspire attacks through very clever use leveraging of social media. then we saw a second stage where they enabled attacks. meaning not just putting out films meant to inspire attackers, but actually making direct contact with individuals here on u.s. soil over social media. and telling them what to attack and when and giving them advice. that is inspired then enabled. so you see inspired probably in san bernadino, you saw enabled in the cases we had here in new york in june through good intelligence we interdicted with arrest. what you are seeing in brussels and paris the thing that we have to very watchful, which is directed. that is teams under the command

syria to western europe. >> dickerson: let me ask you commissioner bratton responded to something that ted cruz said when he suggested that we needed to patrol and secure muslim communities before they become radicalized. the commissioner's response very strong against that. why so strong? >> i talked to the commissioner about this quite a bit. i think patrol and secure was the subtext for occupy and intimidate. i think if you listen to what he said how he said it, we're the proudest country on the planet. and that's because we have beened leader in freedom and human rights and everything else. in our history there are moments of shame be japanese internment, the red scare and mccarthyism, torture after 9/11. these are things on reflection, people have rejected. each one of those is driven by fear.

campaigning through fear and using that as leverage then giving advice to the police to be that fear, that is not the direction american policing should be taking in democracy. that is what the commissioner was saying in today as op ed in the "new york daily news." >> dickerson: does this present -- does this affect the relationship with the police and muslim community at all? these kinds of comments or just what happens in presidential campaign? >> well, i think you have a very interesting conversation going on here. and in the great law of unintended consequences i think what ted cruz has done has caused police in america, particularly in new york, to have a voice, reassure the community as to what their role really is. >> dickerson: john miller, thanks so much for being with us we'll be back in a minute.your path to retirement... may not always be clear. but at t. rowe price,

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>> dickerson: we're back with homeland security chairman mike mccaul who joins us from austin, texas. mr. chairman, you've traveled to europe, you've talked to security officials there, how that are do they have to go to get up to speed to counter these kinds of attacks? >> well, john, i think in many ways, europe is in pre9/11 posture, they have many intelligence and security gaps. i traveled over there prior to the paris attacks. the counter terrorism officials in france, went to turkey, phenomena here is foreign fighter threat, revolving door from europe to the region in iraq and syria and back through turkey, back into europe. that's what happened in the paris attackers now we know nexus between the cells that became operational in paris and now the ones attacked in bros i will all part of the same network, same bomb maker all tied to the foreign fighter

these are trained militants that have gone to the region have come back it's one of the greatest threats that europe has because they're not prepared for it from a security standpoint. >> dickerson: when you look at an attack like this what are you looking for in terms of your job in thinking about homeland security for america? >> well, what i'm concerned about for things. one that john miller talked about that's radicalization over the internet that isis is very adept at doing. the other one is a foreign fighter threat. so, we have 40,000 foreign fighters that have converged in to iraq and syria from 120 different countries. 6,000 western passports. thousands have come back to europe but hundreds have left the united states and gone region, many have returned. those are the suspects that we're most concerned about in the united states. finally the idea that there are isis followers in the united

being influenced by them, the thing that is the biggest challenge to federal law enforcement is the fact that they are communicating in darkness, what is called encryption. we can't see what they're saying. if you can't see what they're saying in advance it's very hard to stop it. >> dickerson: what is your sense of those hundreds of foreign fighters in america how much of a handle does law enforcement have on who they are, where they are in manage right now? >> we have relatively good assurance, we don't know without good until generals on the ground in syria, it's hard to know how many have left and returned. the numbers around 250. the ones who have returned are being monitored. i know that after the brussels attacks that we are obviously ramping up coverage on these individuals. those are the ones most concerned about. but again, john, also the communications coming out of

states to attack. attack where you are, in dark space we can't see it. that's a real threat. >> dickerson: the area that were attacked in brussels, soft targets, airports, subways, why should americans not be worried about the airports and subways in america? what is the distinction between america and europe? >> the threat is higher in europe because of the number of foreign fighters, this also don't share databases as well as we do. or intelligence. they have lot of restrictions with their laws if they need to change. we are, however, i talked to the tsa administrator landed at brussels when bombing occurred. we are ramping up security at train stations, at airports, at subway systems using canines and other things. but visible and envision be. things happening behind the scenes. don't want to give -- that we

other thing that concerns me, john, is isis came out with a recent video calling for attacks like the paris style or brussels attack, in the united states. it's the type of individual inspired by this propaganda that concerns us as well. >> dickerson: i'd like to ask you about senator ted cruz's comments about securing and patrolling muslim neighborhoods. what do you think of that? >> well, in europe you have very different situation than united states. in europe it's very segregated. you have the areas in belgium that i saw being radicalized culture. same situation in the united states. and i know that nypd as john miller talked about really had a great outreach program to the muslim community. i think the affect, i pass this bill to combat violent extremism in united states as effective

so you can pull the religious leaders really on to our team, if you will, to protect radicalization from within those communities. i think to send inflammatory messages could have unin continueded consequence. >> dickerson: that's the 30 seconds we have less want to follow up on that do you think that this kind of surveillance would push, create the sense of radicalization that we see in europe here in america? >> i think we can get good intelligence from the muslim communities in our outreach efforts are working with the religious leaders in the communities in the united states. as federal prosecutor there were times when there was -- under the constitution. >> dickerson: we'll have to end it there that's all the time we have. we'll be right back.ll business expert? sure am. my staff could use your help staying in touch with customers. at&t can help you stay connected. am i seeing double? no ma'am. our at&t 'buy one get one free' makes it easier for your

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stay with us. >> dickerson: welcome back to "face the nation." for some analysis on the attacks in bros eland fight against tar rim we joined by cbs security am list and former number two at the cia michael morell. farah pandith former special represent tough to muslim communities at state department and atlantic jeffrey goldberg who has written on nation national security. mike, let me start with you, where are we after this attack? >> john, i think two points. one is we have unprecedented terrorist network in europe. there's been 1 isis attacks in europe the last two years,

the last six months. very large problem 2000 foreign fighters coming back from syria and very sophisticated capability of those guys because they got the training in iraq and syria and real capacity and part of european services. this is not only a problem for europe, it is a clear and present danger for u.s. homeland because of the easeful travel from western europe to united states. that is issue number one. issue number two is, europe as a harbinger for what we might see in the rest of the world. isis is under pressure in iraq and syria. the consequence that have, that's important and necessary to do more of that. the consequence of that some of those 40,000 people who went there to fight are going to start going home. so gives isis the opportunity to create europe-style networks in the rest of the world. >> dickerson: it's going to get worse before it's going to get better.

progress is being made. but mike morell says clear and present danger those are not words suggesting progress. progress one place leads to real danger in others. the more pressure you put on isis in its territory the more it feels a need. first of all the people will be leaving. will be spreading out. smashed in once place and spreads. the second problem they need to prove their viability to their audience. they need to prove that they are still capable organization that's why the tempo of these attacks could increase. >> dickerson: let me ask you about that, sect kerry this is part of the pitch this is important for the public relations aspect what is your take on that? >> first of all, the complexity of what is happening with isis in syria and iraq does have reflections in europe. we have to understand that european muss almost have always matter they continue to matter. it's important thing for us, if you look back at what you're seeing with 44 million, thinking

upon each other about us and them narrative that they feel. and the identity crisis that they feel, isis is just accelerating, something that has already existed. for the last 15 years we're now just looking at this in terms of charlie hebdo, in terms much bus wheels might come afterwards we need to look back to where we came from. understand what is happening to the generation that's grown up and to understand very importantly that the things that are happening across western europe going to matter as mike said to our bottom line because the ideas and feelings of the identity crisis that they're having ricochet in our country as well. >> one quick point on that. something that we have to consider is that, isis' goal to convince muslims in the west that there is no space for them in the west. and so what they're trying to do create situation which muslims are forced to choose between western assimilation and

that's why the politics not only in europe but here matter so much. >> i was going to say, the question is practically what can we do about this problem, right? and it's one thing to be hopeful that the europeans can get their act together, quite another thing to leave them into the right place. i think we need some sort of u.s. joint effort, think about u.s.-pakistan after 9/11 where we sat down worked with them where we put our income on the table, they put their information on the table. we fused that in a way that allowed us to go on the offense against the terrorist. and allowed us to be on the defense here at home because we have the right information. >> dickerson: get back to this point about the neighborhood -- >> just going to say, the coalition one is intel coalition but there's no coalition for soft power. >> dickerson: explain to meme what soft power. >> on the ideological component i was in brussels two days before the attack, very senior

talked about the fact that their cities are dealing with something that is most serious since world war ii. what he meant by that was that this idea that the ideology has spread, this narrative of the identity crisis of us and them, is turbo charged by everything that's happened. whether it's the current climate of conversation here in the united states all of these things build on each other. what i mean by a soft power coalition is governments across the world and in europe specifically, alongside with civil society, turbo charging and scaling up all of the kind of pushback that we need to see that pushes against the us and them narrative. we haven't seen that kind of thing. >> excellent point the problem is we're not going to get the french to change their culture. we're not going to get the

to accept u.s. counter terrorism. society. >> i don't think we can nor should we. things. everything that we have talked about is an us and them paradigm to matter what we are. >> dickerson: do you include that american politicians talk about surveillancing neighborhoods is that the kind of thing -- >> i'm not sure what that means in terms of surveillance of neighborhoods that are -- because islam has been in this country since the very beginning of our nation. but to your larger point, what happens in our country, the conversation, is that happen absolutely reflect on what general climate is. our first line of defense is muslims themselves, they are the ones that actually see things for the first time and they're ones that can push back against foreign ideology as they come in. we cannot isolate them. >> dickerson: we got the cultural clash in european cities, mike, back to you on the tack tactical questions you have 28 different countries, you talk about u.s. helping with counter terrorism but one of the things

countries to share is just seems like a mess. >> that's why we have to lead. that's why we have to go in there and say, this is how you get this done. and it's not only the heads of our intelligence communities that need to do that, if the president of the united states, secretary of state, the secretary of defense, need to make the case that this has to happen. because not only are you in danger but we're at danger as well. >> it is not entirely clear to me that president obama would be the sort of president who says, we are going to lead the european anti-terror charge. there's line in his policies that says, that other countries also need to lead, especially on questions that directly have bearing on their security. but it might come to the point where he realizes that the europeans are soda bill tate what they can do that there is no. >> but the muslims did lead. we were listening across the ground that's the first effort that we actually push forward began to listen to what is

in europe was going to. we heard what the muslims themselves were saying. we need to do more of that. that is what has been missing for the last 15 years. >> dickerson: more that have in europe? >> more in europe. because when you're talking american -- the american lead here, america was the one that put our efforts on the ground to listen to what kinds of things were happening organically. it wasn't european government doing it it was the american government doing it. we have demonstrated both in the hard power side and in the soft power side. that we can end fact lead i think that this idea of coalition, integrated coalition hard and soft power will make the difference that we're facing right now. >> dickerson: finally jeffrey, your point on president obama. his reaction this week to this, you lot of time about his foreign 8 see, his reaction in keeping with his world view or was different from -- >> reaction kept very much with

am not -- i the president am not going dictated by terrorism i'm going to keep to my schedule i'm not going to sit around the white house waiting for something bad. i'm going about the business of the united states. the problem comes in the criticism that he spent 41 seconds in cuba talking about belgium so, he has not yet found, i think, sort of the right middle path of talking about it, in way that comforts americans without playing to fear mongers, but also not being captured by this one problem. >> dickerson: thanks all of you. we'll be right back. i think we should've taken a left at the river. tarzan know where tarzan go! tarzan does not know where tarzan go. hey, excuse me, do you know where the waterfall is? waterfall? no, me tarzan, king of jungle. why don't you want to just ask somebody? if you're a couple, you fight over directions. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. oh ohhhhh it's what you do.

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>> dickerson: now we turn to the 2016 presidential race. senator bernie sanders swept the washington, hawaii and alaska caucuses yesterday by huge margins. 7% to 27% in washington state. 28% to 18% in alaska. and 17% to 29% in hawaii. joining us to talk about that and very dramatic week in republican campaign is "usa today's" washington bureau chief susan page. jeffrey goldberg, writes for the atlantic. cbs news political analyst jamelle buoy and ben domenech is is the publisher of "the federalist." big night for brands, his best night. big deal, small deal? >> modest deal. it's very important that bernie sanders is doing extraordinarily well with liberals and

doing very well with young people. adds to the argument that sanders represents the future of the democratic party is going. but the fact remains that hillary clinton came in to saturday with 300-plus delegate lead that bernie sanders huge wins doesn't meaningly diminish that. when the new york primary, california primaries come, those primaries alone have as many delegates that are even as possible for bernie sanders to win on saturday. so, the structure of the race still is in hillary clinton's favor. but not to say that bernie sanders wins aren't very important for the kind of long-term movement he seems to be building. >> dickerson: california and new york are -- >> also situation that to your punt it does reveal something about the future. and where the real excitement and packs lies. goes to portland literally puts a lid on it. then is going to go on to wisconsin to lot of other states

win in these wider northeastern states, do very well. i think that speaks to some of the dissatisfaction among younger voters with hillary clinton and is going to be a problem for her when she gets to the general to inspire again. particularly if they have the feeling that this was taken away from them because of the super dale gat system. >> dickerson: what is the challenge for managing the moment for hillary clinton? >> he still doesn't have mass on his favor. but it is in a way preview i think of the challenges she may face in general election against donald trump if that's what happens, because donald trump has enthusiasm as bernie sanders does, he's really spontaneous figure. even more so than bernie sanders is. this is not the persona that hillary clinton projects. she's very careful and cautious, she's always well briefed, speaks in full sentences. i think that it's a preview --

with people especially young people, we've talked about that before her big deficit among voters under 30 is a problem that has, it goes to her need to keep bernie sanders on her side. she'd like to turn to general election, democratic voter aren't ready, neater is bernie sanders. she needs bernie sanders speaking up for her once she finally has the nomination. >> there is a strange quality that the argument is, bernie sanders will never get to the white house if he keeps winning primaries and caucuses. it is an odd thing but mass is mass, it is true. >> i'm not sure that hillary clinton will have such a huge enthusiasm problem. so much of politics in the modern period driven by negative partisanship. not democrats are voting for democrats and republicans voting for veeply dance, democrats say i don't want those guys in the white house. if there's anyone who is going to drive negative partisanship is donald trump. it's under played in a lot of the criticism of the media handling of trump is the fact

unpopular among almost every single 07 population. >> dickerson: we'll get to that, because that's very good point. this week we saw hillary clinton susan was saying pivoting to the general elect, this terror attack while republicans were talking about waterboarding and surveying neighborhoods she was saying, this is the adult approach is that a winning -- was it smart to grab that moment? >> i think to a certain extent that's fine. but on the other hand when you look at what conversations were happening on the republican side, i think that there's a real -- there is to the points that were made on the earlier panel attitude of fear. a real feeling that the elite lead are ship class about what's been going on in europe over the past several years have been dismissed as being effective regarding the threats in nature. i think because of that people, particularly on the republican side are open to the kind of

what's interesting in this moment decision, is that trump made this week which seem to be completely at odds with my expectations. this is the moment for him to be unifying his party, bringing people together, convincing people that he can be trusted as a national security leader. you saw that i think the in didn't of his interviews with the "washington post" and "new york times." at the same time, engaging in attacks on ted cruz's wife and on his campaign, very personal and very derogatory. distracted from that. he's ignoring the delegate selection process where ted cruz was able to take over effectively louisiana process with all the people, all of those things worked to increase the likelihood that trump would be unable to win on second balance lieutenant should the republican convention get to that point. >> dickerson: let's separate those things. susan we had back and forth this week, we're not going to show the pictures but super pac going after donald trump ran picture of his model wife in the utah contest. donald trump responded by

unflattering picture of his wife. this went right into the gutter where we saw the race was existing. does this matter, this back and forth, does it hurt donald trump in a way, what do you make of this at the end of the week? >> talk short testimony and long term. short term people who support donald trump this is just more donald trump. i don't think it's a big -- gets off message, not a reason to vote for ted cruz it's great news for hillary clinton. because who are the most critical voters in general elections, women, suburban women. lot of women will look at these exchanges and debate over whose wife is prettier, or who has better marriage and think, this is not someone who i want to vote for. >> dickerson: let me pick up on that point. if you look at -- we'll do some numbers here, jeffrey, i want to you respond. donald trump's favorability ratings among our latest poll is negative 3. in a general election context that's already than any recent

but among women, even lower, negative 44. and just to put that in to historical perspective, four years ago in march 2012, mitt romney net favorability among women was only negative 13. donald trump, jeffreys 30 points more negative than sort of generic republican nominee would be with women. isn't that glowingly toxic for him? >> it's glowingly toxic for him and it goes to a broader point. jamelle made this point april piece, that the more people who are not already accolades of donald trump, the less popular he becomes that's true on matters of international affairs, international security. certainly true in the context of his problem, very obvious problem with women voters. it's very hard to imagine how he recovers from that. he cannot have full personality transplant even if he did have a full personality transplant on these issues it's very hard to sell that.

swings in favorability happen within these narrow margin you can improve by five points if you're good and lucky. but 30 point swing, 40 point swing that donald trump would need to break even with the public just seems ridiculous. i'm having hard time -- telling the people of hillary clinton headquarters who are studying this exactly how to exploit that to make that problem for trump even worse. >> dickerson: let's take a pause

panel stay with us. >> dickerson: we're back with sa today susan page. jeffrey goldberg of the at lap particular and ben tomorrow niche of the federal list. explain to people why it matters what's going on. >> even after all the votes are count within these vair just states like south carolina or louisiana. saw delegate selection process for the actual people who will go to the republican convention. this matters a lot more should

1237 number of delegates needed in order to clinch the nomination. if it goes to a second ballot where delegates are free to vote, the simple fact is that the ted cruz operation has been very focused on making sure that the delegates are cruz supporters. even if they are pledge to trump in the original vote that they would shift to him on a second ballot they have been very successful in lot of these early states. particularly because trump's campaign not even really engaged in the selection process. >> dickerson: we have two front more here we have public contest that we're hearing about then there's this under competition how likely are they going to be. >> trump needs to be on the first ballot or not at all. i think he'll win on the first ballot. i think he's on a roll to be at the 1237 or close enough that it i will impossible. if you think about the fractures in the republican party think about the fractures if donald trump who won most contests, got the most votes, got the most

nomination by republican elites can you picture. >> there are some key figures in the republican party who are willing to put up with that anger because they feel that that same anger would be up against them if he loses in the fall which they expect almost to do. >> a better alternative? don't think cruz is going to win in the fall either. >> i think they rather lose with him. >> dickerson: what is john kasich's role in life now? he's still in there, he's fighting. but there are lot of people continuing to say, stop it, because they want it to be contest just between ted cruz and drum. >> in kasich's favor, the case that if he were not there, cruz looks. if you -- some find that trump ends up winning sort of in a straight fight. it's hard to say how it goes. i do think that kasich makes it more difficult for cruz to even get to a point where he can

one. and sort of with the republican elites that wouldn't to get him out. i don't know what kasich thinks he's doing. he's not in position if it gets to second ballot at the convention for anyone to back him whatsoever. >> dickerson: jeffrey, switch now to you, donald trump gave two interviews this week, one the "washington post" editorial board then two sets of interviews with the "new york times." particularly on foreign policy. on the "new york times" conversation, what did you glean from his foreign policy world view? >> i gleaned that he has no understanding of the post war international order that was created by united states. that he has no understanding of why we maintain alliances with such treaty partners as south korea, nato, importance of maintaining those stable relationships of democracies. shows that he has no ideaing of nuclear doctrine. other than that, it was cool. it was really remarkable to

so little interest in understanding why the world is organized the way it is organized is this close to the presidency of the world's only super power. >> you look at the four candidates might possibly be nominated like clinton and sanders or trump and cruz, there's only one who is in the mainstream of either republican or democratic foreign policy that's clinton. the others are what generally be considered flinch positions. interesting that george sha hulls was -- 'continueded the hillary clinton speech. i wondered what kind of message that was intended to send. >> dickerson: secretary of state, he liked. >> it's interesting to see, i agree with that frame, does not that spook to the country's general rejection of the foreign establishment. i think it really does. i think it's basically saying, doesn't have an answer, or alternative answer but just says

we don't trust you, don't think that you are doing -- >> spend ten seconds explain why we have alliance with south korea and japan they will understand that? >> dickerson: i have to cut you off. it's a meaty moment. thanks to all of you. we'll be back in a moment. the future belongs to the fast. and to help you accelerate, we've created a new company. one totally focused on what's next for your business. a true partnership where people, technology and ideas

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>> dickerson: that's it for us today. thanks for watching and happy easter. we'll be back again next week with more news and of course politics. for face the i'm john dickerson. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh

>> from washington law firm law firm the american original, for over three decades the sharpest minds, best source, hardest talk. john: issue one, libya trigger. >> that's a lesson i apply every time i ask should we intervene militarily. do we have an answer the day after? john: president obama says he learned hard lessons from his use of u.s. military force in libya. that action four years ago this