karen: remembering dr. king' s legacy through inspirational words that ring true today. good afternoon. i am karen holmes ward. welcome to "cityline." the nation celebrates the life of dr. martin luther king, junior, and we recall some of his sayings that illustrate the social justice movements in history and education. there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe nor politic nor popular,

conscience tells him it is right. that quote from dr. martin luther king, junior, could have been voiced a century earlier by another leader who was at the forefront of the admit to abolish slavery, frederick douglass. in an illustrated biography, most photographed americans, the others examine frederick douglass' use of the van new medium of photography to break down stereotypes of african-americans. harvard professor of african american studies john stoffer joins us in the studios today. welcome. how are you? first of all, funny to think that frederick douglass was the most photographed person of his time am even more than abraham lincoln? >> more than ligon, grant, custard, walt whitman, more than any of his peers, which

19th century america, his influence, but more importantly, his love of photography and his recognition that this new technology could greatly advance his cause. karen: you compare the douglass use of the new technology of photography to a social movement that we see today. dr. stauffer: that is exactly right. he recognized the power of photography and took advantage in the same way we take advantage of the new technology today, like circulating through twitter, increasing the african-americans will not leave home without a camera. they recognize that it has certain tweet values. karen: look at this photograph of a very young frederick douglass.

photograph by a great friend, a bostonian. it was taken in 1841, which coincides with the beginning of douglass' public career, when he became a public persona. douglass recognized the degree to which photography gave an individual, whether a slave are serving girl, a visual voice, the same way twitter gives everyone a visual voice. karen: african-americans did not have access to cameras. how was it that frederick be photographed so frequently? dr. stauffer: because americans had 11 fair of photography -- photography. , there was a photography studio on every street corner.

even the poorest worker could afford to have a portrait. karen: here is another wonderful photo of frederick douglass. dr. stauffer: this is a stunning photo from 1850, douglass' radical revolutionary into the camera lens. he always dressed up. he wanted to present himself as a citizen and as a someone who was as equal and is deserving of equal rights and citizenship as any other individual. the pose of staring defiantly into the camera lens was not traditional at the time. people were supposed to look off in a visionary gays, off to the side. he looked -- a visionary gaze, off to the side to it he wanted to confront america, not only

full status, full humans. directly at you. distributed? dr. stauffer: they were venues. the illustrated press, gleason' s vectorial, precursors to time and life magazine. first time we see the news visually. many of douglas' s' were disseminated in the illustrated press. some were sold when douglass gave speeches. karen: let me interrupt you, this is a fascinating photograph. tell us why. dr. stauffer: this is lincoln' s second inaugural. douglass had a front row seat.

douglass had already met with abraham lincoln twice. they declared themselves friends. douglass went to the reception at the white house afterwards. lincoln saw him come in and raised his hand and said, here comes my good friend frederick douglass. what did you think of my address? douglass said there is no man in these united states whose opinion i value more than yours. karen: frederick douglass was aghast at the lino t their opposition? dr. stauffer: policemen try to prevent him from entering at first. lincoln gave him a personal invitation. and he told me that blacks are welcome to the reception. karen: if a man has not discovered something he will die for, he is not fit to live -- that is a martin luther king quote. you shared with me some other comparisons that you see between

principle, first of all are they you need to be willing to die especially for humanity. they also shared an understanding of the power of photography and of the camera. dr. king at one point was met by a photojournalist, a white photojournalist from the south, which said i have been photographing you as part of my your movement. what can i do? king responded that the most effective thing for our movement just the way you have been. it highlights the degree to which white racist is a form of dehumanization, highlighting us

citizens here that is why king and his followers always dressed up, just as frederick douglass dressed up. the journalists who covered his photos in the news coverage of the king civil rights movement were there internationally and nationally, and southern cities or recognized the power of this photographs on the television coverage and many, if not most of them, did not show it in their local communities. karen: we always recall the images of connor and the german shepherd and, of course, the to montgomery march. seeing those pictures, which turned a nation -- dr. stauffer: converted a nation in the same way that douglass understood that his images and

are respectable also helped to transform a nation. douglass himself acknowledged that photography helped to elect linocln coln, the first anti-slavery president in american history, because his portrait made him familiar and accessible in the same way that douglass' portrait in the portrait of countless african-americans made them accessible, familiar , and forced whites to recognize them. karen: what is this less photograph? dr. stauffer: this is his second marriage, the honeymoon photograph, taken with a fake background. they were at niagara falls, but that is a fake background. his is one of the very few personal photographs. photography was douglass'

disseminating his visual voice to the public. it was part of his political and public persona. there are very few photographs of douglass with his family. the one with helen pitts is one of only two known photographs with his second wife. his first wife, there are no known photographs of them here there is only one known photograph with douglass and his children, his youngest daughter. karen: thank you for bringing these photographs for us today good the book is called "picturing frederick douglass: the o' s started to talk -- the illustrated photography," available now. john' s curated images at the museum of african american history starting in june. each ring frederick douglass will be the first of its kind, featuring more than 100 images,

between 1841 and 1895. next, a school' s vision and visions the legacy of dr. king.

education is to teach one to think intensively and critically.

that dr. king quote could for boston' s city schools. served as a vibrant center for youth leadership development. in the dorchester corner neighborhood, this nonprofit encourages students to become champions for social justice. their executive director, marion ortiz, joins as on the program. tell us more about the city school. ms. ortiz: it is an organization with the mission to bring young people together, and we are intentional about making sure it is a diverse group of young people from different neighborhoods, class, gender, and we want them to get exposed to a curriculum of learning had to be social justice leaders. karen: how do you do that?

we make sure they received training and education on the different issues that are not only impacting them and their communities, and we make them be protagonists in making sure that the change needed in their communities takes place. through your programs to the young leaders. ms. ortiz: that is right, yes. we use many different approaches to it we have learned that young so we' re very intentional about making sure that our program is peer-t o-peer education. a lot of our young people follow our ladder of leadership we created for them. over the years him if they start with us at age 14, by the time now leading groups of younger people.

doing for others? tell us some of the things that others through the city school. ms. ortiz: sure. many of our young people have been advocating for years now in the city of boston, for example, to increase the number of jobs many young people from our neighborhoods are a vital part of the economic system of their households. so they have to rely on getting jobs to help their families. unfortunately, we do not have enough jobs in the city for the number of young people that are neighborhoods. so that is one of the campaigns that young people have been very active in helping achieve.

projects, from school reform to we partner with different organizations to make sure y thato -- make sure that young people are aware of issues impacting our communities, but also leading that change. karen: so much of what is going on in the world now is impacting people and encouraging them to speak out, especially on social how do you encourage the city school students to voice their opinions responsibly the social media? ms. ortiz: we have many different activities and events that get filmed and recorded by young people. we bring experts, you know, people to come teach them how to use social media in a way that is going to help them send their message out more effectively. karen: what would be wanted you offer them?

message is. we have many different distractions, so our young people know that attention span is very short when you are talking about social media. on our website, for example, there are different clips of campaigns that they have led, marches, or demonstrations, and they have been used that footage to send a message for people to join in the future. karen: as we celebrate dr. king this weekend and throughout the year, what have the students learned about his legacy that resonates? ms. ortiz: dr. king is one of the figures we definitely look up to. when we think of dr. king in the many wonderful things that he did, we know that beyond a civil rights leader, he was also a human rights leader.

king was here, many things that he did beyond the civil rights are not necessarily covered, but he was quite a radical leader in regards to human rights. and we applaud that legacy. we want our young people to see that he was face-to-face with what was going on in the world. karen: speaking out against the vietnam war, speaking out against poverty. ms. ortiz: not just focused on south. exactly. and how the government of the united states and foreign policy across the world. we believe in those principles, and we currently use non-only that legacy of his, but of other leaders of his time, as well, who are still with us.

killed because he spoke up. so we want our young people to understand that you have to be willing to live or die for your principles. social justice is the core of, i believe, we have political prisoners in this country who are social justice leaders from the same decade that dr. king was fighting for human rights , and we embrace those leaders, as well, and teach our young people about herman bell or oscar lopez and others. those are folks that we still to this day believe are also carrying on the legacy of dr. king. we make sure our young people know about all of them. karen: doing great work at the city school. thanks for being here today.

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sermons at marsh chapel, where held the title. he guided him towards his resolve for nonviolent protests. as the world struggles with ideas about social justice and stand today? is associate provost and dean of welcome. theology? >> it is a look at how people organized themselves around god and how the perception to god might be, be it from a personal standpoint or some other way. it is that way we come together, the systems of how we organize the universe. karen: what do we think dr. the student, jury from the course of study at boston university?

want every student to draw is a mentor to, and he had plenty of them, both in the classroom and certainly outside of the classroom, whether it be howard thurman himself as someone who can mentor him and talk with them, cut up with him a little bit, or whether it be one of the professors who really pushed for the concept of personalism in thinking about religion, and dr. king really found some spark to all of that. those are the kind of things you want to see, and mentor. and whatever the subject matter might be, you want them to go that way. he certainly went on to think about people' s ideas of how to come together around the universe and around the universe of ideas of love and justice. he has great examples and people like thurman, too,

visited with gandhi, went to india. i think dr. king cannot have helped but to connect to the kind of thinking, that kind of person who also thought about universality, who thought about and the environment he was in. karen: dr. king not only thought of his church of worship, but he thought globally about religion and faith. >> that is right. he was one of those global thinkers. we think about the world today. i think one of the things you would have to say is that dr. king would be global. he would think a little bit about any struggle happening in the world. we found some telegrams he exchanged with cesar chavez over a couple of years in terms of thinking about struggle. religion was certainly something he thought about. i hope

dr. thurman says, well, yes, we have to be centered and be ourselves, but we also have to connect to a larger world. there are a lot of different ways people perceive us and come a universe. turn pup dr. king -- karen: dr. king and howard thurman to my how do you think they would think of the current controversy with religion and politics? >> i think they would be sorely disappointed. it is hard to speak for anyone, by the way. i cannot understand deal or of them, but i tried to be like them both. i would think there would be some disappointment. this notion that we would lock some people out of their ability to be in a democratic society and to practice and to come together to think about what is right, what is universal, what is just , just based upon their religion. i think that would be incredibly disappointing. i think they would also say the

smaller, and we have to think about religion in its broadest ways. the way that we pray and connect with each other, we need to do that across our religions. during pup another what -- karen: another quote -- darkness cannot drive out darkness. hate cannot drive out hate spirit only love can do that. >> we forget that dr. king was incredibly educated, someone who pulled in other wisdom from the ages in his speeches. that was important. dr. thurman was an educated man, as well. i think we are talking about light but the conception of love. dr. king and dr. thurman always had a really wonderful conception for themselves, personal conception about love and what left should be and what it can be. karen: what is happening at

>> some great things. we will start with our own sermon and preaching at the march plaza on sunday, january 17. christopher edwards, an old friend of mine, will be given the major does giving the major remarks be on monday, the national holiday, we will start at 1:00 at march plaza with a peace rally, a way for us to come together in peace the way dr. thurman and a by dr. king were, people of peace. hope. we have had to have had tough here and we hope to then go to a program. people are saying, look, it is outside in january. i remind people that dr. king did not care if it was cold, hot, raining, or snowing, so marge yourself on. at 2:00, we will have a program that features a poet laureate.

karen: thank you for being here today. >> all are welcome. karen: you can celebrate the legacy of dr. king tomorrow for the martin luther king, jr., open house. public. step by the museum of african american history on big and hill s program by logging on . thanks for watching, everyone. have a great rest of your day.