[captioning ma possible by kcepublic television] avis: good evening. tonight, a conversaon with one of the greatest fures in televisi. he has a dvdollection of some of his greatest shows, "all in the family"and "maude" and "good times." and he has a new series of music from arod the world, "playing forhange." normal lear, co-- norman lear, coming upight now >> wal-mart is lkingorward

to building srogner commuties -- stronger communiti. >> nationwi insurance supports tavis smil. workingo aieve financl literacy and the power that comes with it. >> an by contribuons to your pbs station from viers lke you. >> welcome norman lear back to the program. he is asusy as ever if you are a fan of his television work.

this the nmanear collection, with "good times," and t"jeffersons," and he has a new cd, "playing for change." first, a selection. >> moa, youare supposed to be resting, you're weak. >> they only took out my appendix. not my fists. >> what happen? >>he clled me ugly. that cod reduce less beautiful person to tears. >> ho you're not leaving on my account. >> i can't thinkf a beter ason. >> you be nce. >>oodnight, and have a nice evening. >> we have riots. >> because of pove.

>> because of fdr. >> he brought us back from t depression. >> he won the war. >>macarthur won the wa >> and he was fired. >> that was truman. >> this is theworst one i've ever had. this i the big one. i'm dying. u hear that elizeth? i'm coming to join you, honey. >> i'm ughing, so are you. you stihink th is good? >> the performances are undeniable. i will lah just like the first ti.

the performancis undenble but the iting is good. >> have the best collaboration inhe business. i am 36 years old and the reason i looked -- like this is because laughter and tearso your life. tavis: speaking of being in years old, th is a box set, 19 discs. when you signed off on this, when you look back, what do u ke of it? everybody comes on andgrees that everyne of us wan to be judged by our body of work, not a partilar series o interview, by the bodyof work. youre judgedand wh do you think? >> i look at aerica when i look

at this. i have been ked why the topicality a the edginess, however they frameit. this is amecan li living the problems as i have se them. that i all we were doing. when we came togher, writers d producers, to talk abouthe next episode, we were used to eading newspers and payi attenti to th ns and the famils. what our kids and wives were going tough. we wer scrapin the barrel of oru experie-- our

experiees. >>as mode as you are, the time, this was t writin -- risky, and you look back on this, i is ahead of its time. there are mor blac folk on tevision then then there are now. you were risky and you re ahad of your time. >> younow what i thought of, speing of black folks on television. they were the first families. the audiences became black aslo. -- also just as in black crches, and i love to go there on a sunday morning. the reaction is dierent than in a white church. this is a celebration of le

and is very fferent. that is the w that the audience as t cave. you can hear them reacting, audibly not just beuse tey were ughing but beuse they were carrying on, and i believe that the audiens in those, coming to tose pings inuenced the american auence. the audience in the theater and everywhere in the country is very different as a resultf the audience at e taping. tavis: you are born and rsed in connecticut, and i want to nd out how someone becomes as liberal as youare, putting black people on television and undersnding the complexity yourrom connecticut.

>> my father went to prisonhen i was 9 years old. tavis: your andfather? >> my father i ved withmy uncles, and then my grandfather. hewas an iigrant as many grandfathers are, ande loved this country fiercely. we had parades on memorial dy and the four of july. there was abraham lincoln' birthday, and i would and on the street corner, with the old man and he would hold my hand, and it would get tighter as the flag went by and tereould be a tearn h cheek. he wrote the preside, every letter was, my dearest darli mr.president. and he would get a response. >> that w his greeting?

my dearest darling? >> even if he disagreed. dn't i te you last ek -- and that was an audience of one. but i wldun downstairs, in the etiquette - connecticut and 'd see th letter from t white house. i started with that. i don't know how i found on radio. charles couglin, who was a racist and ti-semmite. sohow i found it, i didn't have a friendho did. i could not -- my fatr was a

victim of the depression. they couldn't send to college and there was a contest. i menti that. the topic was the constitution, and eerybody would have to rform about the constitutio as a jewish kid, who was in live -- love with the declaration and t bl ofrights, and had listened to this m. i amdn my -- and my grandfather loved the rights ahd -- and liberties as a kid. that ctinued through my life. tavis: for everydy. twothings you said, you ve me so much rich material.

numbe one, you mentioned your fathe went to jail. tell me a ni year ol w that effected you, and what was it le when he came out? >> i am learni, at my ae, how ch it effectede. i don't livewith rgret, i don't have any regret. i think about if this is te. this is the moment. everythin is now. but thextent i may have been a ight kid, i had a point of view, i h toclamp down who i was toxist in other people's hes. i remember a summer with a

cousn, and i was attheir ho and h fatrused to come home in t evening in the summer ad w'd be out and we'd hr a whistle. we would rush to his fther, whistlg for his son. i ached to have my father whistling for me. but when we re inur 20' we were together and i told him about this. he said, "really?" "i felt like a dog. i hated it." >> when yr father gotut, what was that reunion like? >> i'll neer forget it. rtford railroad.road

he comes in and he's at the edge ofthe trai my mother and my sister and our gs, we're geing on t train. we wer going to new york to live until he fnd a job with another family and a place to live. he was standing there with a suit i remember tat he wor wn he went away. this was now too big. we getn the train.he was wit -- he was with my mom. said, that i'll take you to time's squa. at miight you will be able to

rea a newspaper. an you willbe bar mitbar mitza'n a year. of cour we' going i a year. it took me a time to learn he had a dre he never reached. he wou always have a million dollars to take me on a trip around the world. i didn' expect to si here and gothrough this. >> this is fascating. you me th point you aretill learning about yrself ifou are open to that. as youlook bac on your life and theecisions, the way that

you hve gone about making your decisions, the processyou have encountered. keeping yur word. i want to get a sense on how your fath had these eams and how this impacts h you ve your life. >> i think iam sure tt i grew up tinking, i n't want to do that. i loveeh expressi --he expreion, ancount on me. some m and women a my gr eat friends and i know can unt on tm. he wasn' somebody i could cou on. >> that' where it came from. >> absolutely.

as for t restf it, gogin -- coglin and fellow from jersey, i pied up a lot of that in my relatiohip to the bill of rights and the declaration of independence the african americans, the ack families, i love doing tha >> another greatart of your story, i have seenhis in perso you are a kid who grows up lovi the constitution, the bill of rights, and you are an owner of -- >> teclaration of independence. tavis: that i a greattory.

you are mov by t docunts, you look up, h do you end up owning this? i read tat a copy of the declaration was auctioned off o television. daughter, i have 14 yearld twin daughters. one was going to school with a girl who had a dad who ran sotheby' i read about this and i cl him. he says, it is in my showroom. my sociate is withme, and we walk down to the sotheby's and we walk in and it'son an eas. i was about to cr i saw a tear in her eye.

thi was, there may have been 200printed on july, 1776. only 25 are left. the copiessent hseback, read aloud. they were thennouncement of revolion. the birth ctificate of the country was tt night. itay have been the o that everyone remembers, a fellow buying picture frame because he liked the fame.@ @didn't know th behind the picture. tavis: i rember. >> washis doment. it has been traving since we

bougt . tavis: why is it important to avel it a how do y describe what it eans to own tis copy? >> this coud sound [unielligible] i bought thiso travel and get to people. this is the birth certificat of he country. i don't collect the this and woldn't ng it on a wall so 11 people could see it. it belos to all of us i thought,f i get , i fill f-- will find the money and avel it. fr or fiveonths after this, was the summer olympics. the was david rockwe, with

this huge eibit and i had gone to -- exibit and i d gone with major people who read t claration of independence in indendence hall conrad hall. we ha blls and whistles tere and it has been traveli ever since. i have seen people liningp just to get to t cument for a moment. they have gone atable where they could write what they felt. >tavi wow. in the fiveinutes have left,

respond how y want to respond. it wuld be traic without hrowing the namesof the shows at you. i will go in orde "all in the family." >> the antecedent was a british show. i thought, how did i nothink of this. my fater cald me t laziest white kid he everet. >i said, "you' putting down a race?" he said, "you're the dbest white kid." tavis: "od times." >> ester was on "maude," and her moment adds time to m life.

we knew that s should be on her own show, and brought in john amos. hadplayers in the bush agues, the werein the bush leagues and earned a right to the majors. tavis "the jefferss." >> the black pss for "good times" want to know why all of these peopl why does heave to have three jobs. why is there no showthat's upwardly mobile. that' where we got the show. 're movg on up. >tav: if you can't sing the

theme song, you don't get your blackcard. mary hartman? >> i want to do a show with the effct of media on a simple person, a midcountry housewife. she was in fernwood,hio, with a blue collar huand. and th media,n the last episode, she was on the david suskind show with three ersonalities. a in the best 20 minutes i have ever seen, she went crazy at the hands of the media. tavis: "sanford and son" and my time is almost up. >> we fell in love with red fox

vegas,nd thereas a show, steptoend son. that has to be red fox. tavis: you had to clean him up, ut he worked. we missea athur, "maude." >> nobodyver made me lau the way she did, shegot to paces i didn' know i had. tavis: i haveeen tryingo think beyond icon, this does not deribe lear' contribution. well get a chance t celebrate this with his new collectn, a 19 disc set. pbs watchers have seen "playing for change," thank you for th

as wll. nic to have you. your life is so full. >> i wl come back next week. tavis: make room for him. catch meon the weekendsnd you can listeon the radio on pbs.org. thank you for wahing. a as always, keep the faith. [captioning made poible by kcet pubic television] ctioned by the naonal captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- >> for more information, vis fa "nurse jackie. see you then. >>wal mart is tryi to help

people live better and build stronger communities d relationships. >> nationwide insurance supports tavis smiley. working to improve financial literacy >> and by contributions to yr pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.