tavis:ood evening fro los angeles. i've tavis smiley. tonight a conveation with the legendary founder of mowone berry gordy h borrowe800 from his famil and staed a small record label in detroit. that little record label would become one o scessful pieces in mown. the labelas just released a 10-disc set that highlhts motown's rare glad you'vejoined us for a

about e u.s. uto industry and ede falco, coming up right now. >> there are so may things wal-mart is loking forward to helpig us r dogi, lie hlping you li better. with youhelp the best is y to com. >>ationwide insurance proud supports tavis smile tavis andnationwide insurance, working to mprove fnancial lite to improve financial literacy andy contributionsy your pbs station from vwers like you. thank yo [captioningade possible by kcet public television] tavi i'm beyond pleased tonight. m on in order and hbled and

whatever else i cane to welcome berry gdy to this program. 50 years ago this month he stard a sma rord labeln detrt that would become one of the most prolic records in history. he commemorate motown's history. you can pick up a 10-disc set. motown, the complete number e. here's just a samol of t geus of motown. ♪ ain't no mountain high enou ain't no valley lownough ♪ ♪r. postman oh, yeah ♪ ♪ i heardt through the grevine ♪ ♪ before you ask some girl keep your freedom for a long as you can

my momma td me you better shop around ¤ >>r. chairman, an honor to have y on the program. it's my pleasure. tavis: you doing allight? >> i'm doing all right. >> -- tavis: loo good and clean. >> so you a. tavis: how much i a a sucke for packaging i lo this job. you see thi -- thiox set is in the design of the hits of your house. can y rd that sflt my ays tavets, enjoy berordy. you can't get mine, but you can get your o. but i love the packaing. it's a schl idea. >> well, it's the museum now, but it was the hitilleouse. and it'shere we started. it's where everything happened. tavis:ell me abouthe houe?

how did you find the house? how did you e up in that house? for those who never went in detrt, it is a museum. tell mebout the house. >> it wa a house found by my wife at the tme, rae. and it was just a studio. and i loved theouse because it had a garage th i felt the beat. and it had a great bigindow in the front. d it was jt a beautiful layo for me. tavis: yeah. >> and thas i we went in and you know, we made the garage, the recding studio and upsirs, we had a bedroom. i lived there. everything became rooms for people to -- piano and rms,

and we just created that as went along. and it was evolutionary rather than somethinge had planned. it was just plan. i named it hitsville because at that time "ville" was te word. and i named itslle becse it was where hits were gng to be made. tavis: d it become hitsville later on? >> n itarted on with a garage, with a big picture window, which i thought was great. and i jus tried t figure out what to name it. tavi when did you put hitsville on it? w long was it there before you called it hitille. >> i don't know exactly. it was srtly after. we were in there recording and doing all kind of stuff. i bought little studio -- a litt -- i bght a two-track

machine from a disc jock in detroit. biss to o'bri. thatachine was where we started. tavi i asked that hitsville because i've known blackan be a vsionary. he called it hitsville that's a t of -- of course it turned out to hitsville. it's a great name. i've been tre so many times. i love going there every time i'm i droit. i want to ask you a few questis about stuffhat people may not kw about you and thenwe'll come to the motown thing. i said how much i personally enjoy th "vanity fr" piece. was a wonderful spread. many, many pages. annie leibowitz did the photos. i thought it was a wonrful

iece, in part because it s e story of motown told from theeople who made mown. you and all the people around you. as many times as we've talke er theear, i've alws ha a sense, and i got that through the magazine tt will's a story about motown that rubs you raw. there's something abo the telling of the sto of motown that you were unhappy with and yowere always intent on lling the story the way you think the story was tbe tol at is that thing about the tellg of the story thatou don't like whic makes it so important ich -- for you to te the story? well, you know, motown s alwayseen like aathery tail. we didhings differently at motown. it started out -- it's ahole big story. what happeneds -- you're going to need lot mre te. but -- [laughter] >> because every story that tell it'sike a branch. it goes out lika brah and it spreads out.

andhere's another story d there's a sto of diana. there's a storyf the temp taons. there's a story of the fun brothers. when y simplifyt,t was just a -- a magical tng tha happened. and i- i feel that it had a lot to d with justify ls fis, stu that i had lrned as a kid. u know, it's so my different stories. but the truth w never tol and so after 50 years, i decided, well, w wld just kind ofet peopleell their own truth. when the magazine came to me. in fact, youpoke of the "vanity fair" magazine, the article, that was the greest article that's ever been done on mown. the reasont was gre, is becaus one, it was the truth. you know, and the true -- truth

has never been told. there's been plays, plue vies out mown. it's from people fro the outside peoplehat were not there. they said we want to do this grt article. we want to honor you. lisa robinson was the person whom i met with with "nity fair." i said i don't want sound bites. i don't wt to do anything -- and i had not done any articles because i did not want to do th because i don't want anythi but the truth of wt it was. so knowing that theyere very go we they're research,ood or bad. because you said, what can we tellou? what can we talk about? what don't y want to talk about? >> i said i will talk about anything you wt to talk about. the toughest questions you wan to talk about as long as yo will promise me that you will resear it. you're kwn for tt. but is easy to research

something or it's easy to come out wit things that are exportative. the mafia, thisnd that. because no one would believe a black kid from droit could create motown. tavis: now you're getng to what i want t get to. at is it thatept angerin berry gordy the way the story was told? one thing they connected you wi the mafia. >>verything was wrong. they never h motown --he fact is thathen we came out with our records, th wer so strong, they were deali, they went to theop of theharts. they were so incredible. and it s done with all my ney. i borrowe $800 from my fily. tavis: by the w, did you ever

pay them back? >> oh, yes. you suld see -- in my book -- i signed my life away. tavis: to be loved. >> i wentohis for $1,000 because we had a family club life where well put in so much money a monthor the ds. my sisterester w always trying to educate us. family was a very close fily. we would put $10 a month in this -- the whole fily. and no one had ever browed any money fro this, it's called burrberry. named after my ther murthat and berry. i would make it motown. i found out that everything cos up from upringing,our childhood, things that you learn as a kid and i you sti

with that --nd i tell all the young people today when i do a commencement speec you know, it'sll about principles, it's all about integrity, it's all about loyalty and'm out here today because of t 50th anniversary, d this is for those great loyal people tha supported me throughout -- this i not for me. this is for thootown artists that we goinghr t the southn the view and been shot at by peoe in the south. they wer -- they wer -- they were awesome. i tried toull them f the road. and ey said, no, this is important. smokey and theest of them said,o, we're going to go. we're going to sg. 're going to show people. i'm responsible you kidre out there. getting shot- come on back here. you know? they said, w love what we're dog. tavis: beyond the fact tt they obviously loved what they're doi, they were born to be artists thanks tohese hits. talko me about those loyalty

issues. y were you so loy to them and why were they so loyal to you? >> it's al about love. it's all about love. it's all about tth. we had something that in motown that i tried, and ihought, well, it's whole long story about thing i've done. t i've fought for this legacy for 30 years because i wanted get this truth out. e truth willnly win if you can afford to fight for i if you were willing to fight for it. an i was. it was the legac of motown. i tell kids you can never bld a place like motown if you were with the mafia you can talk about me because i don' care, my legacy is going to be whatevert's going t be. yore going to love me whether i'm herer not. just like iove you. my legacy's going to be what it is. but the legacy of motn cannot

be messed wh. it i a legac for all peoe. i mean, especially bck people. but t legacy of motown was a magical legacy. and i could not let abody, you know, anybody just rewte history becse there's ople around the world that -- that grew up with our music. and i didt ever want them to think this is all over the world -- tha motown w run by d people. tavis: there's a great line in that "vanity fair" magazine. and you sd it toe in private. i was so glad toee it in the article. at motown is the sound tck of our les. it is the soundtrack of our lives. an that's why you tak it so seriously. that's w lives h been built -- >> and i don't want tm to invalidate the own lives

buthat the guy who built this was a gangster. tavis: i'm only talkingbout itecause it's aressed in "vanity fai" i'mot saying anying that s not been addressed publicly. the proder of "the dream girl film took out a four page ado make it clear that "the dreamirls" mie was not based on berry gordy and motow did younsist tha that get done? >> i was happy that it got ne. i did meet wh david geffen. he ithe man there. and he's a good frid ofine. we've been friendsor 40 years. the competors, all the record compies we were out the fighting eac other for records, but we alloved each other. dadnd i we would tal abo problems and that.

i mean, and all ofhe peoe out there, you know, we all were trying to advance the r artist, black people give em something to do. we did it different ways. stac and i people thought we werehe biggest enemiesf the world. and we wouldust laugh about it. they said, they're wng. motown isoo -- too this or too that. tavis: one was wrong and one was refined. >> yeah. one wrong. the problem w that i sat down with david. i told him david this is like i'm a ganter. this ithe worst character that i've ever seen. he said,ell, you know, it' a movie. i said, it's a movie, but -- tavis: it's my life.

>> he understood. you really feel tt w? you can talk abou me, whatever i do is fine. bu the legacy. people died f this. marvinaye is dead. ese people have died to fit. they followe me. you know, so -- and i said this 50th coming up is for them. it's not f me me. --or these unsung heroes. because motown people that came throug the time that ce through caot, not love each other. will nothing that anybody can do about it- there's nothing that anybody c do abo i even the white people, they ca to work on 12thtreet in detroit, in theidst of the riots. d i said you guys betr stay home. [lauter] >> you guys better be cool. get out of he. no, we come to work. we wer there. and they were like brothers to us. younow?

and they h aifferent kind barney who ran the whole thing was a genius operati man. but he was italian. and tre was people wh were jewish. and then there was a cew that was mid easte. and then there w phil jones. d i think one other person was all the. and they were like brothers to . and they fought. it was something. so my wle thing is this is the0th. i wanthese people tonow that nothingas changed. you know, we're still here after all theseears. i still love them the same. wherever they are. i cal them up. they cl me. >> i was watching a moment ago. and you used two words, and i wa wching your emotion. and you sai "they fought" an your handsere kind of like is. "they fought" and your nds

were like this. d i was thinking about your boxing career. a t of folks don't know that berry gordy was a boxer. so much so that you were in the keafrl hall of fame. you left that and you went into the music busess. what did you take fro that boxing career into if music business? did that help you in any way? >> yes. boxing was good for me. wh i saw j les. and he made my -- it was nazi germany vs. america, the ld of the fe. and amica had won when he knocke out maxmeli. i was 8 years old. and i saw the joy in myother and father'saces. it was like the world -- america,unning through the streets. it was all that. and i looked at that. as a k of 8, i go wt could i er do iny life that wld make people happy all around but also my parent,

mainly. it gave me inspiration. and my insration from there was to make people happy like thatike joe lewis did. and like obama just did. [laughter] tavis: who lot of peoe. >> and that s that whole thing but it was that sam kind of feeling bu i was 8 years o. soy started boxing and ianted to be champion. and i fought har on that. joe lewis was my hero -- idol -- hero. but later on ray robinson came mydol. he feelsmooth. he was sharp. and he had more girls. [laughter] >> yeah and so -- and that was good. oh, man i went --in-win situation here. tavis: so one of the ways to get girlss to know how to write a goo song. you've g this bing

talent which is phemenal. you're such a camilian. u've got this boxing talent, t then you also write songs prty well. how did you get into the song thing? >> i srted songshen i was very young. i tk one year of mus lessons with my uncle who w a classical pianists. iove classical music at that time so much, a i started -- he was vy strict. d he was givg me scales and i was plang them and all that. and then i woulde playing themnd notlay a cord. and i would hear nice melody in my head. and i just got really interest in writing out what i fel and whatt would make me feel. then i reaze even at an early age, that music controls you. itakes you feel what it wants you to feel. and so i noticed that as a kid. so i start playing boogie

woogie. i led her. an i started writing songs. my firstong w called "berry's boogie woogie." tas: berry's boogie woogie >> anyway, so that's howt started. turally, i started writi about girls. listening to music. the mls brother. i'm going to buy a paper doll that i can call m own tha fellas cannot steal. i said how clever. was 8 o9 10. w clever. that applies to me because -- [laughte >> you know, i was losing girls before i even got them. aughter] >> you know, so -- and i would list to the songs a s that'sonderful. i fl this way. i would hear their songs

i heard nating coal. -- cole. >> he was like romtic and up to date. i realized that boxg and music, they reallyidn't- they were bth things that could get me girls, but -but nat king col had ce along and he was romantic, a he di't get beat up. [laughter] >>nd then, you kno so then eventually, i rlized that i'd haveo, you know, move ou of the boxing ring after i had quite a few fight i was reall fightg to be a champion vis: so you start writing music. we are at the owned this show. and i'm going to ask mr. gordy to do a small favor for me. i've only de this oncen six years that i've donehis show. which is to say thate ask our

guesto come back. and the convertion i so rich i hav to askim totay aew more minuteso so we can coinue tomorrow night. would you agree to tt? >> absolutely. tavis: i'm going to pick up with loney tear dps. you know who wrote that? >> this guy. tavis: so wre going to talk about lonely tear dops and the rest othe motown number os. we may have the same clothes on tomoow night. but he's so clean, that'sk. morrow night we will continue our conversations we celebrate early t 50th anniversary of motown. accessr radio pot cast at -- podcast at pbs.org. good night from l.a. keep watching and kee the faith.

♪ nowhereo run to baby nowhere to hide got nowhereo runo baby nowhere to hide ♪ i know you'retuckn me that you'llecome a partf me ♪ kno for more informationn today's show visit tavismiley on pbs.org tavis:oin me next te for our part two cversation with civil rits attorney and political advir vernon jordan. that's nt time. we'll see you then. >> thereare so many thin th wal-mart islooking foard to doing, look helping peop live better but mostly we're oking forward to

communities and lationships. becae of your help the best is yet to coe. >> nationwidinsurance proudly supports "tavismiley" the tavis and nationwide insurce. workingto improve finacial >> and by ctributions to your pbsation from viewers like you. --tation from viewe like u. thank you.