what do you think a trecan be? can bstronger than steel? can a tree be biodegradae plastic? can it beuel for our cs? or clothg? or medicine that fights cancer? with our tree cell technology, we think it can. weyerhaeer, growing ideas. > if yo like yo doctor, you keep your doctor. if you likeour health care plan, y keep yourealth care plan. >> this week on nside washington," the president's health-cardilemma. the re he talks, the more xious americans appeareto be. >> they cannot get medicarend medicaid rht, but they think they can do this right. >> i spoke to members of the gang ofix, and progress is

being made. >> there is not goingo be a gernment-run insurance companies set up. >> "newsek" declares that the recession is over. >> i imagi you found the noose startling. >>--ewsstartling. >> i don'think that we spend too much time dwelling on the pa. we snd a lot of time discussing the future. captned by the naonal captioning institute --www.ncicap.org >> the most ren "wall street journal"-nbc news poll suggests that despite his best rhetorica efforts, president obam's case fohealth careeform is slipng, especially among those who already have insurance. another pol reveals that his

ability to frame the debate on s own terms is also wanin adveisements like thione do not he his case. >> you could e upovernment buaucrats king away your chces,getting in bween you and ur doctor. >> nobody is talking about some government takeor of health re. [applaus i am tired of hearing tt. if you like your doctor, you ep your doctor. if you like your health care plan, you keeyour health re plan. these folks need to stop scaring everybody. in "the wall street journal" pa, only two of 10 people believe that theuality of thr health care wlimprove und obama's plan. how much trouble is the esident in on this one, colby? >>ot as much as otherpeople thin this time last week, i would have been surpsed to len that hen waxman, the chairman of the energy committee in t house, and a blue dog democrats

would come gether on a plan. the stuff that is happening over there and the fact tha you have the republicans in the senate still at the table suggests that this thing is comi together. what you are getting, slowly by slowly, r buy-i from y elements ihe congress. think it will be in a different in la fallhen they produce the final product. >> chles? >> i tnk the wheels are coming off, and it not from advertisements from repubcans, not fr the blu dogs, not from the insurance companies, isrom the congressional budget office, nonpartisan. they came at three tes with findgs that are just devastating. th sticker. --he sticker pce is$1.60 trillion, then 10 da ago, they saidbama's miracle cure, a committee of exper to make cuts to medicare,s not going to do a damn thingand thirdly, it said in a lter

last sunday thn the out years, the deficit wl produce will be even larr. numbers like that -- youannot have alan that will survive that. >> nin >> we cannot actually survive withousome major restructuring of health care. anybody who is connecto the medical prossion, and i and m marriage, kws that it is headed for a cliff, and if you do not do itow, it wil be worse later. this willdetermine whether we do something significant now, and in august, when everybody goes home an thedvertisements are run, it n be dinitive, and do not know which way it will go. >> mark, on t numbers , how does the nuersdig himself out -- hodoes the president did himself out of this le? >> it is always comparedt. by a two-one margin, people believe that oba is bter on

this issuehanepublicans in congress, they give him high marks on his understanding of is issue. there is resistance. three out ofour people believe the costs will go up ifnothing is done, and three o of four beeve they will go up if everybody isovered. but if you look at wha president ama has advanced -- no pre-existing condition can be excluded by an insurance company, all emplers will prove something, even the smallest employers will havto y, a tax credit for tho who cannot afford it, a it will be funded by an increas tax on the wealthy pple -- back th two-one. it is a polical problem, and it will take polical skill and toughness to deterne whether or not president oba prevails. >> if he does not nail it, h is in deeprouble politicly, isn't he? he will come outt the end of ts year with aealth care rerm bill that he can sign an

the country going to like. look, ted kennedy ote an op-ed piece in "time" magazine this week that ouined the real struggle to get health care reform d the difficulty he has had over thelast 30 years in ying to get something done. were farther along now than we ve ever been. if you had asked me back in january whether we would s them, the cgress coming togetherlowly, but coming together with somethg like this, ould have said no, it is not possible. >> the reason the so-called gang of six in the senate finance committee did no produce something is that the replican leadership intervened ansaid, "don't do this, be it to august to do whatwean do." you can call it mischief making, and obstructed -- constructive criticism, t that is what happened. >> it is no longer theang of six. it is the gang of five or four. and republicans did not stop

thi the repuicans have had a feeble effort. it is the cb the president said we will expand coverage and t costs. a 9-year-old will ll you that that is a contradiction. th cboas shown it is a ntradiction in numbers, and th is killing it. >> the democrats in coress wt to risk bringing down as president -- if they do, inot onlyrings down his luster d mission and number but it also brings down in them. if they think they cago into 20 with a failed heal care and a president who is limping and wounded, and still prevail, they are kidding themselves. >> you went to a focus gro last night. what did you learn abouthat, abou how americanseel about th president? >> debbie will hours of 12 independent voters inowson, mayor -- two hours ofalled indepeent voters in towson,

maryland read a piecof convenonal wisdom washington was totally exploded. that theresident is or exposed. people love e fact that the presidentis out there, that he is explaing, and they love to see him and hr from him. that includes mccain voterss well. but there is a nse of time out, that things are happeni so fast, that e argument at republicanmake that you want to dothis slowl whether it is since or not, doe ronate with people. the fact is that voters are still rooting for barack obama. his job ring numbers are down buhey are rooting for him and they identify with him. >> obama's numberare good and stillstronger, but in the last three months, approval of health care reform has decread by 14%. it ia fact. the more people learn about it, the less thelike it. >> it is less that and me that it has been a steady pounding by the ctics of this health care reform, and it is bound to

ve an impact. >> the biggest is the cbo. > one of th thingyou see is th obama is down but publicans are not bouncg back, and u see that problem in the sotomayor vote that is cong up this week. she will be lucky to get 1 republican ves, becae the republan leadership is whipping that vot so hard, and that will hurt them in the long run. >> what is your solution to that? >> one, it isoing to be part of the government's soluon to handlet. it should our problem with insurance, n the government taking over. >> a little back-and-forth in raleigh, north carolina, as the president travels sought tsell his heal care plan. senate democratic lder harry reidays that the gang osix is makg progress. now the ganof five, according tocharles. th ranki member of the finance coittee says there will be n government-run insurance program, mandate.

in the house, some liberalsre steang over t compromise that speer pelosi a henry waxmaneportedly mad with t dog democrs. -- blue dog docrats. >> withou the blue dogs, the democrats arin the minority. >> tail waggg the dog. >> well, they have a certain lerage in the democrati caucus. they picked up 11 seats that republicans hel in 2006, and they picked up anotherix seats that republicansave held in 008, the blue dogs. they are really fhting to holdn to the democratic majority. you have got t listen to them. it still comes down to, i think, the mocrats coming to e realizatn that nina toued on in the last segment that they will have tut the demrats together to pass it, a maybe get so republicans. i think that is where most of

the work h to be done. >> the nancy pelosi, the saker of that,ays that the insuran companies, the lobbying they are doing is almost immor, that they have been immoral all along,hey are the villains in this, they have done everything their power to stop e public option from happening, they have had a good tng going for a long time the expense of the american people. acrding to "politico,this is fr somebody who go ove $200,000 from inrance compans. >> one thing that noby mentions i that the insurance companies have an anti-tru exemption you cannot tk to doctor osmall business insurer who is not present with the rates the are going t pay. whether it ishe doctor in liability or the smallbusiness inure who wants to buy for their employees. the insunce cpanies have, unless there is a very agessive relator, they have -- i was about to use an expression that e should not

use on television. >> let's try to staon the air. >> i will make a prediction -- there ll be a health bl. it will ther be a larger health bill that as of strucre and everything, or a moreinimal health bill, but in e end, there will be a t of changes in th way medical care is in short in th country. >> charles says i is health surance reform, iyour column. >>es, i don't ink it wille thearger reform. nobody uerstands what ama says whe he ans health care reform. it has 1elements of strucral reform. a lot them will not hapn. ut mark is rht - democrats understand that if the president is defeated on this,e is done. the democra are not going to sl their ownavior in the first yea there wille a health-care bill. in the end, it will be a mimal one. it will be held insurance

form, the phrase that the president used five times in his press confence. an interesting turn of phrase, health insurance reform, a new formulation. i think it wi be heavy regulation ofnsurance companies, so that what you havepeople who have it now and like it wl have it, and it will be secure, portable, and permanent. i think pele will accept that. >>ut you have to have a market. >> the left will be angry, bu the presidenwill hold his left yway and it will pass. >> the democrats are not going to pass a health care bill because they want to help barack obama. theare goingo do it because the is pressure to get a health care ll passed. the will be trible blowback if they fl to do something. think we will see in some way more of the uninsure covered. not 45 million who areuninsured now, but we wl see more of them covered. we will see regation, in that will put more competition into the system for t health

insunce co., which will cause them to have to ratchet down what they are collecting. that is a given. whether it ia public pay your or co-opmeasure, some competition will be introduced into the pictu and people will be covered witpre-existing conditions. >> one point on an nan pelosi to aepting $200,000 from insunce compies-- if you cannot taktheir moneydrink theirrews, sleep with the lobbyists come and ve against them, you ought noto be in the biness. nancpelosi meets that test. >> exceptor sleeping with them. republican congressman the virginia foxx of north carolina said on the house for that the repuican plan wouldot but seors in the posion of bng put to dth by eir governme. i just want to say, as somebody their age group, i support that. [laughter] >> e misiormation about what is in this bill is astonishin

some of it by error, a great deal of it by deliberation -- is real astonishing. >>f you go to a single-par, as the british have, you'll nd, as the brish have, that er a certain age and wh certain disabilities, you will not get a kidney or liver and you will digression ocrs in e kind of system. --ou will die. rationing ours in the kind of system. that is y you need a matchmaker in new jersey who will get you a kidy for $1,000. aughter] >> there will be a vote on judge sotomayor. tell us more about this. ere is it going? >> when i said that the republicans ar whipping this hard, mitch mcconnell, e republicanenate leader, ked to the nra if they would score this vote. >> they alrey said they were going to do that.

>> is why they e going to do it, because he asked them. they said, ok, we will do i now yo see state wit big hispanic populations, peoplwho were going toote for her who are nowot going tvote for her. i interviewed a guy this week who had been one of the leaders of t hispanic outreach for george bush a other republican ndidates. he said, "wean onl pray that people forge abo the sotomayovote, but when you combine this with the immigration staff, the republican party is headed f a minority status if it does not do something," it es not do sothing to get bk a signifant portion ofhis fastesgrowing groupf vots in the coury. >> are yshaking your head, charles? >> thosewful publicans, scing a vote on sotayor.

baracobama as senator ted agait johnoberts, perhaps thmostexcellent candidate fo the gh court in 50 years. the reason was ideology he believes that ideogy is how you ought to but read it is perfectly reasonable as a conservative tt you vote against her on ideology. personally, i would vote for h the way ndsey graham is because i want to establish the old standd of approving the candidatef the opposition even tugh ideologicay you and they are difrent. but it is the democrats who, starting with bertork, brought ts principle of the ideology is differenfrom yours, y do not vote. it isestructive and we ght not to do it. >> patrick leahy did -- >> half the democrats >> i n't think half the republicans areoing to vote for sotomayor. charles grassley and orrin hatch, twoespected republica senators whoave never voted

agnst a nominee, annoued they were going to vote against her, after the naonal rifle associationas announcing that if you do not te against her -- >> i wonder if in the time jefferson watrying write the declaration of indendence you had 24-hour news coverage. it would be talking about the likelihood of failure, the colpse, the whole thing is collapsed. look, we ha to take thlong view on sotomayor. how she will be revealed is not based on the heings, but after she has been othe bench for awhile and has had chance to particate in some of the decisions. >> do you agr with charl that john roberts is the most excellent jusce we have had in 50 years? >> no, i don' but i really do not care t debate this, since obviously is anon-issue.

he is not the best we have had . you know what, i know it, a the americ people know it. >> i want answer his question -- what would happen if we d cable the time ojefferson? weould be singing "god sa the queen"very day. >> covering health care debate. the way we are coverinthe economy, the stimulus package, everytng else. everhing is measured in terms of what happened yesterday, because we are big reporters who have to get stories at, instt reporting at has nothing to do -- >> aunprovoked attack on fox another cable news channels by doctor krauthammer. >> od save the queen" is grt tune. [laughte >> is thereat recession reay over?

i don't know whether youave seen the latestover of "news we do" magazine at the grocy store, -- "newswe" magazine at e grocery store, but the cover says the recession is ov. i imagine that u may have found the news a little startling. [lauter] i know i did. here is wh is true. we have stopped the free ll. we may be seeing the beginning of the e of the recession. but that is ltleomfort if yoare one of the folks who has lost their job. >> all word of caution on t president on celebrating the end of the recession. actually, therticle says that when economists s that the ression isver, it is a technicality. we are not me yet, chaes. >> but t news is good. on frid, we got a report that whereas in the first quarter, gross national product h decreased byver 6%, 6.5, in

the second quart, it only went wn by 1%, which implies that we are hitting the ttom, and bernanke has predicted, and i think he is probly corct, that by thend of the year, we will have a growth of a percent, percent-d-a-half. it is anemic, but it beats ctraction. thproblem i that joblessness is a lagng inditor, and we will have high unemployment long into our recovery, probably to ection year 2010. >> howmuch credit as the in ministration get? >> i give a lot of credit to the obama administration -- >> surprise. >> and t bush administration. >> shoed. >> both administrations did unpopular, costly, awful things, and we will see the sty repercsions of that -- the bonuses that went to these

peop we give money to. there is a piece in "the new york times" about theeople at th biggest financi institions getting bonuses over $1 milon or something like that. >> they earned eve penny. >> it is eugh to make you -- but the is a very good chance that we woulde really in a deep, deep depressn if they had not done it. >> becse we are sitting - we are seeg from the shrinkage of the economy thainventories are down iusinesses, and so they will have to start aciring and pickup in manufacturing but chles is right that you will see a lag in impmented there ll be a structur change, like the auto industry. >> we psedreform and relation of the financial institutions. >> ongain, wall street is ahead of t curve. >> here we go. >> 9 at the nancial firms got

$175 bilon in tarp fds, paying more than $1 million, a nina poied out, to the 5000, as theyre taking from the public treasur people who are suering and trying to get through. it is not unemploent - these are people we talking about means an millions of erican families that are really in pain, and it is find that the numbers a going up and the overall percentage and everythi else, but ithe finalanalysis, th human face on is employment,t is reaand it is goi to be an enormous political problem in 2010. >> how does he getaround that, the president? >> they better genuiny hope that by the early summer of 2010, unemploymentis going down and people are going back to ork and hiring is going on. >> we are probably going to see e stimulus package, which

people discredit, work itsay into t enomy. >> if market been arou f the frenchevolution, he would have been guillotine operar. >> certainly, he has the credentialso enlighten me a little bit. >> the story of thambridge poli officer w busted the distinguied harvardrofessor ase was trying to get inthis own home is now two weekold. the sameconversation has been going on all over america at th week. charle you spend someime at harvd. how much othis is town v gown? a lot of it is. hathe classic elents -- white working-class, the professor of an elite university. but it is the president whon fused racism into this situaon where i do no think it isted, and i ink he is the one at fault. i thi the best comment t of

all of ts ishenry gates, who said oicer crowley, whene is not arresting you, a really ni guy. >> the bondin over beer that happen on thursday is probably a good thing. i do think, though, that there was a teachable ment that obama, the conitutional awyer, allowed to pass. there was an oprtunity to talk about the first amendment, police powers and the right of citizens. perhaps that was not t time to do it, but the is a time to do , and that time is now. >> i like tohe comment ofhe woman o actually reported a loed like it might be a break- in. thats all she said. she w completely exonerated by the 911 tapes. she never mentioned ce. her lawyer said, "three gs actedbadly in thi and they

ar having a beer at the wte house. the one pern w did not act dly, who did her duty, is doing her job in cambridge today." >> joe biden-- i am glad he was there, becse he had a non- alcoholic be. he bught sobriety and temperance to the even secondly, it turned out at one thing ey did bond over, the officer and a professor, with the boston red sox and t boston celti. >> last word. thanks. see you nexteek. foa transcript of this broadcast, log on to