>> this week on bilmoyers journal. sara lawnce-lightfoot who says there is passion and adventure after the e of 50, if you're en to learning and change. >>ll of us at this point, to someegree i think are on a search for mningfulness, for purposulness. we want to find at this next 25 years, this in fa penultimatchapter of our life, isoing to be about. >> moyers: and a phographer rns our mass consumption int a thing of buty and a warning about e fate of the earth. >> this one is called pltic bottles, and it picts two million plasc bottles, the

number wuse in the united states every five minutes. stay tuned. ptioning sponsored by public affairs televion >> moyer welcome to the journal. th is that time of year when public televisn asks you to go to your phone or computeand make a pledge to this ation.

more than er, it can use your helpn these very difficult economic times th week, as we often do during pledge drives, by popular request we're bringingack one of youfavorite broadcasts, this one with a remarkable scholar and story ller who has some important insights out owing older... and old. ere are 76 million of us in what the noted educator ra laence-lightfoot calls "the third chapter," a timeor passion and adnture. for her book on th subject she spent twyears on the road, gathering the stories oflder americanwho have set out on new lives and careers. shadded her insights as an experienced, leading sociogist, and wrote "the third chapter: passion, ri, and adventure in the 2years after 50." i first interviewed sara lawrence-ligfoot a generation ago, when she waa young professor at harvard universy. even then e was talking about li as a contuing course in aduleducation. >> schooling is what happe

inside the wallsf a school; some of it is educational. education ppens everywhere. >> moyers: sara lawrence- lightfoot s now been on the harvard facultfor 37 years. upon her retirement, sheill become the first afran- american wom in the history of that university to have endowed profsorship named in r honor. ong her nine books, this is e of my favorites, "balm in gilead," about herother, dr. margaret lrence, the pioneering cld psychiatrist. sa lawrence-lightfoot, welcome to the journal. >> wonderf to be here. moyers: how time flies. >> y. that'srue. >> mers: i can't believe it's be over 21 years since i did last intview you. you were writing then about ur mother, who is now how old? >> 94 yearold. >> moyers: and here you e, writing now, about aging. what are you trying toell me? >> well, whahappened was several years ago, iegan to hear at almost every cocktl party, dner party, professial conference and

meeting, someone wouldean into me, and sort osay what i began to cl confessional moments. sothing about what they were truly exted about, passionate about, an adventure th they were on that was n for them, and i would lien. their voice held bh extraordinary passn and excitement, but on thether hand, sort oa shyness or reticence. as if what they were talng about, wshouldn't take too seriously. but onhe other hand, it was somethinthat they felt deeply abt. and i gan to wonder what were these momentabout? you kn, that people were talkinabout new learning in their lives, new aentures that they were taking, new ris and that tir commentary about these moments waso much more excid than talking about their work, or eveat that moment, talking about their fami. so, i began to wonder, ain, what is the text, anwhat is the subtext of tse moments

that would... i began to call nfessional moments? anso, i wanted to really vestigate this curiosity of mine. >> moyers:ere you having any confessional momen of your ow >> irobably was, but mostly i s experiencing this as listener, as receiveof these other expeences. but there was alwaysomething, and this ctinued throughout the research for this bookthat resonated with mabout it. that allf us, at this point, to some degree, i think, a on a sear for meaningfulness, for purposefulness. and we want to fd what this next 25 years-- thisin fact, penuimate chapter of our life isoing to be about. and 're ready for something new, f a new experience, for a new venture. and i think all of us, to so degree, experience se burnout. burnout is not about... not about workg too hard. or working too diligentlor

being overcommitted. burnout is about bedom. and so, i think inome ways this is about sort of moving beyond theoredom to compose, to invent and reinvent the ph that we're o >> moyers: and y, you say that while theyould talk excitedly and with passion abo this sion or this confessional moment, there s also a note of ar in their voices. >> right. >> moyers: they we sort of clos down. >> i thi two things are happening there. one is that we aretill a youth obsessed culture. and so, what we all beeve, who have grown up in this culturis that we ould be in retreat at this moment. wehould be, you know, kind of pulling ck and feeling comfortable and aying still. and so, these storiethat they were telling me, that re about moving out, taking an advente, seem to be sorof against the cultural norms thawe have been embeddedn for most of our lives. i think the other thing that

happening is that it's hd to leave thesroles that have gin us status. at have given us sort of responsibility. th have maybe even given us influence and powe those roles ha become comfortable. and to go this journey that takeus away from that feels terrifyi at first. moyers: one of the most intereing revelations in here to me that you, in just a few pages, discuss the wayhe pendulum has swung back d forth in ts country toward aging. mean, there was a time, in t earldays, when americans powderedheir wigs in order to look oldeand then there was a time when aging was consided incurable disease to be treated in old folks homes, we used to call it and now, here you are, sitng before me... >>es. >> moyers: ...descring this agg, this growing old as a time of great excitement a adventure and passn, as you say. >> yes >> moyers: what has haened to bring about the change iour

perceptionf the elderly? >> well, we're ling longer. that's o big piece. that the arcf our lives have changed enormously. so, we're not dying 50. we are, if we' lucky, living to 80, 85, 90. so that this perd that i'm talking abou between 50 and 75, as iaid before, is a penultimate period. so it fers us the opportunity d the challenge of doing something meaningful in . i also think that ere's a way in which my meage anticipates what i hope ll come. that's when i say, and i rlly mean it,hat this is the most, perhaps,ransformative time of our lives. most excitin in terms of new learning limitless in its opportuties. a lot of people don'experience that, becausthe cultural shifts and the institional shifts haven't yetappened, in order to support that in mosof us. >> moyers: whado you mean? >> well, it... what i me is that mt people really do see this time as time of reenchment, right?

as a te... they don't enjoy the beauty, the wisdom, the experience that mes with aging. and we contie to look at younger people, those people who have the energand the drive and e new ideas, right? now, i must say thatric erikn, my favorite developmental psyclogist from way back, said in the eay 1950 talked about the stages of life across time. and talked about this me, the third chapter, as the nultimate of eight stages. >>oyers: the next to the last. >> the next to t last. and he said, even ba then, that each one of these stageis characterized a crisis, a crisis of whher we're going to move forward, progress, or whher we're going to move back, reess. so, it is this tensi always, at each of our developmeal ages, between progression an regression. and this third stage is a isis between what he cas

enerativity" and stagnation. sounds vy dramatic. generativityhaving to do with using your energies to ser, to teach, to ntor, to express through art, to invate, to give something to ciety, right? to leave a legacy. and stagnation, meanin "i'm going stay right here, and ke my mark, continue to make my mark, in anndividual pursuit." >> moyers: wel there's something of a cultural and potical factor there, because it was, what? in 1935, in e new deal, that the social surity act was paed, and people were told they hava "right to retire". >>nd a lot of people experienced stopping woras a kindf death. >> moyers: my father d. >> yes. yeah. moyers: i mean, when he retired at 65,omething in him died. i know that's a cliché. bui could see it. >> and a lot of pele continue to experience that and one of thehings that happens this book is tracing these 40 people, manof them

deciding tretire, but continuing to do work that's aningful. continuing to gure out a way toe productive. to be purposeful. toe creative. to be innovative moyers: you acknowledge in here that these 40 people u have intervied across the untry do not represent the majority of people ithis country. you just put a face on somof these figures by mennd women by talking to th. and it's ao obvious that the bookeals with people of an affluent css. people who have the meanto make choices and to go thiway instead of that way. whereas there are,ou know, x, seven, eight million peop in this country, over 55who are living in poverty, and ty dot have choices. >> well, we think ey don't have choices. one the things i talk about is perceived abundance. how do we perience our life? we see whether we have a grt deal of material resources or not, do we see chois in front of us? and so, a factory rker, who's

been laid off fromis job in madison, wisconsin, tells that he was laid off that he and hiwife went to the flea market ery single saturday wh their stuff, trying to trade it or sell i so that they cou put food on their tables, and continue t feed their fily. and the flea market one saturday, he saw tse strange and interestg sculptures and eces of art made by artists who re bringing their art to the flea market. and he said, "you knowhat? that's interesting. i could do that. and i'm good with meta i'm a welder. i'good with metal." d he went home, and began playg with the metal that he haaround his house. and he began st of saying, "what do i like? what do i care abo?" he loves dinaurs. he's aays loved dinosaurs sie he saw "jurassic park". and he begs to create these animals, these scutures. he takes them ck to the flea market. people become intested.

he sells them foalmost nothing. it catches on. and by the time he's tking to me, he's telling me that he' gotten his first gig with anrt gallery. so, his so of innovation, his resocefulness, and ultimately his pride in his o creativity, comes through. this is a factory worker. >> moyers: onef the interesting sights in here to me is thatou say there's a difference between ts new learning we ha to do when we enter the third apter, and the d narrow cognitive learning the classrm. wh's the difference? >> wel almost everyone that i lk to in this book, even if they were very successful studentsn school, had very successful caree by all of the sortf traditional standards, talked about the ft that the lening that goes on in the thd chapter is often contrary, a contradiction tohe ways in which they we taught, and excelled in scho.

, school taught us to move quickly with speed. to be singular in our ambions. to be compitive. to not waste time. to not show ilure or weakness. d in the third chapter, they talkbout the learni as needing to be creave, needing to be collabative. at we need to fail, in order to discor the best way that we n learn. in other words, at t best diagnostic for learng. >> moys: to make a fool out of ourselves, you say in re. >> absolutely. >> moyers: to be willing to ke a fool. >> to be willing to il and make a fool out ourselves, at least the short run. and, of course, the ingrient that's so important, whi is humor. being able to laugh rselves. lighten up. you know? not woy about our facade and our persona. but real just get into the process. >> mers: one of these people actually says to you thashe's learnethat patience is a major gift of li.

and that it'so important to do thingslowly, which she had rgotten over the course of h li. >> that'right. this is someone who s actually a filmmaker. and she talked about the fac that it was always rush, rus rush. and her parents actually had talked about t fact that, "quick, quickly, quickly." you know? alys being the best by shooting your ha up first, by making it to the fnt of the class. >> moyers: tell me aut it. all of that. and what she realid in this third chapter was how glorio was to slow down. how glorio it was to be able to be reflecve. to be sort of ditative. and my favorite thing out this period is restraint. how wonderful it is, iean, this imy own revelation. how wonderful its to know a little bit more about whenot to talk. when not to ve forward. when is best to listen and sit back. when it's besto just witness and observe. and th kind of slowness of

pa offers us the opportunity to see things newly. to discover things that we hadn't seen before. see the small, incremental steps, ratr than expect the lae leap forward. >> mers: you say in here that you looked into the eyes of these people, and saw yourwn reflection are you facing hing to unlearn me things that have made you e success you are? >>ell, i think that i'm in one of those rare-- and i think u are, too-- rare profsions. >> moyers: no, no, i'm graduatingrom your third chter. >> inow, but no... >> mers: i'm like your mother. i'm moving on into thepilogue age. >> exactly, but as say, these boundaries are arbrary. i think my being a schol and a writer and a resrcher, each e of these books that i writ is really a est, a new quest for me. i'm able to engage in ne learning. and that's a huge, huge luxu. without many constraints i'm

able to do tt. i think there are ose profesons, i do, and those reers, and the kind of work, ally. there... where it sustns your curiosity thughout. where you're able, we'reery privileged to grow in it. bui also think that there are ways in which behave within thcontext of my institution. i can feel it at a fulty meeting. >> moyers: what do you mean? >> well, for o thing, for example, i used to reject th ideahat i needed to mentor other people. it seemed toort of make me feel old, to establish mysf as a mentor a guide. and now, i embracehis job of mine. it iimportant that i let myself be mentor to my younger colleagues. that i work wi and support them. that i guide them. that iive... i tell them stories about mywn life and my own career. that's one piece. anothe in terms of the restraint ece, is that if i'm

in a senior falty meeting now, i speak once. i listen. >> moyers: h uncharacteristic. >> well, i've learnetiming is important. when i speak is importt. all of that. but this way of so of engaging a conversati that's much more listing. and th also offers sort of a historal perspective, is important. and i'm likely to sawhat i think. you ow? rely be very honest, very clear. i'm muchess cautious about that. and those two things cing tother, a kind of a courage to speak your mind and speayour art. and to say where your ids come from, even if they d't come from cognition, in a scholar session. and the idea, as well, of waitinand waiting and choosing your ment. >> moyers: is it true, as i ve hed, that you went canvassing,

knocking on doors, dr by door, last fall, in e presidential caaign with a 24-year-old? >> yes. >> moyers: tell about that. >> i did. well, one of the tngs i talk about in this bo, that's so importan that we need to do, in terms oprojects for the future, in our society ireally engage in much me cross-nerational encounters, scourse, conversation, and movements. >> moyers:ut that's so hard to do, because we are sarated into our... >> it is. >> moyers: ...into our dferent realities,ight? >> i think that's absolutely ue. but i ink that one example that found so exciting, of working with young people,nd young people worng with old people in common project, was this obama campaign. so, in new hampshire, the or four timesi went out with a young kid, from rtmouth. anthis was a really interesting, i kept on wishi

that i was a fly on the ll, or ethnographer, watching us navigate our relatiohip. >> moyers: howo? >> and these encounts. because this was a kid whoad, you know, volumius knowledge abouthe sort of politics and the names, w was incredibly engetic, who had great ideas. who was completely urgent an impatient d a terrible listener, right? and also somne who stereotyped all of n hampshire. thought they were all kind bawoods, rural, country people. republans, right? and at they hadn't really thoughdeeply about these matters. and that all he need to do was feed tm the inrmation. right? and not expect them tohange. my approac of course, was one of beginning by listening them not assuming that knew who they were,ust because i knew whe they lived. right? not beginning with a sreotype, but with trying to... wi expeing that they had the

capacity to thk deeply, as we. and so the negottion of our relationip was one of my heing him wait. helping hilisten. and for me, it was really rt of experiencing and tching his energy, his dre, his impatience, anhis optimism. >> moyers:learly, he had more energy than you, right? >>e had more energy. but his impaence often depleted his eney, right? you knowbecause he was so impatient to get the message ross. >> moyers: you quote toughout this book, someone who was o this shorecently. nikki giovanni, the et. and she has a poem in whicshe says, here are sounds which shter the staleness of lives, transporting the sdows into the dreams most people i kn, 24 years old or 74 years old,ant to shatter e staleness. what have you learned out how to do th? >> well, one of e things that i expericed here in talking to people was this dynamiof loss and liberation

that mospeople that i talk to in the thirdhapter had to begin with childho stories, in order to begin to plain the ways in which they we able to move forrd into new learning inhe third chapter. because much of what happe in that early te is often a feeling of not bng supported, not being nourished, maybe en being neected and abused. >> moyers: when they're youn >>hen they're young, and to returno that place of hurt. to try to understand it. not to blame anyone. but to try to understandt. ether that's a metaphoric return, or whetherhat's literally goinback to ohio and walking up theteps of your father house and knocking on the door, and talking to h honestly about whayou're experience was as small child. whever it is. it's often getting or those early negative experienc, if you had them it's very...t least i experienced with these 40

people as a very cmon theme. d people sometimes discovere those early hurts inhe process of thenterviewing. that some story that they ha toldany, many, many times bere, which was a positive, affirmative, optimisc story. they discover thunderbelly of, as we talk. and the discery of that underbelly iuminates their reasons for moving forwardow. >> moyers: so,hen they identify tse wounds, and they begin to open them, at happed? what do theyell you happened in enabling them to goorward? >>ell, let me just give you an example. there's a puic health doctor, 67 years old, from middle class africaamerican family. and hes someone who's always worked very, very hardmost of the time in west africa,o work on malar, eliminate malaria. takes his work vy seriously. and he has beg to take voice lessons, which hloves. so, i say, "whvoice lessons?"

so, begins to tell the story of sitng in his mother's arms, age six, every sunday, listening to the mropolitan opera, right? and loves this moment, because he's sitng in his mother's arms, and becse there's noing more glorious or radiant than these resant voes of these opera singers. and he says to hisother one day atix, "mom, that's what i wa to be. i want to be an opera sier." and e doesn't respond with any wos. but what he remembers, in nversation with me, is this so of dismissive look that she gives hi and he says wi tears in his eyes, now lking to me, it's as if she thoughthat opera siers were sissies, right? so, heetreats, immediately. he neveraises that up again. and he becomes wonderful public health ctor, right? ving to the world, you know? and at age 65,e begins to take voice lessonand he realizes that this is resont from this

early denial. d he experiences, as he says "a liberation i' never felt. a freedom i've never felt." and the real kickein this story ishahe discovers, in conversation with me, thathis learning to ushis diaphragm, learning to ma the sound come up through his entire chnel, bodyhannel, not only feels liberating in that sen. but alsohat somehow learning, discoverinhis voice, his new voice at 67,as helped him to become a better doctor moyers: and in contrast to that, there's a woman in yr bo named pamela, a psychologist andn activist, who talks very poiantly about wanting, ithis stage of her fe, to do the quote "radical thing." to make a difference. and she's disillusiod or disappointed aleast, to find that theolutions seem out of reach. that it's harder for h to rally people to a collecve see of responsibility than she

d thought it would be, at th ste. and that's neither governmt noprivate institutions are designed to prare... to help her make a diffence. >> well, this is someo who is ogressive. who has been an activistll of her life. and who sought to make a difference beyond thsort of domain of psychology oclinical psychology and what she discovers, at , and she is worried about death. many of thpeople in her family have died early. she sees the finitenesof her life. and she wants to take something big, rig? she was government and hospitals and the ole medical, psychologicaestablishment to respond to theeterans coming ck from iraq and afghanistan to recognize that they're no crazy. at they've been through a

trauma of huge, profound, significance. and yet,he can't get this message acro. she feels as if the institutions, e government, thhospitals, the medical establishment arnot recognizing eir trauma. and so, she els enormously ustrated. >> moyers: s is she going to spend the ird chapter sullen d resigned? >>o. she's keeping on pusng, but ouconversations gave her an portunity to really weep at the fact that she belies, "i'm at my most powerful now. i have theost to give. i'm the sest. my voice is strong. mynfluence should be great, and i feel it dinished, at this pnt." >> moyers: ds it strike you that there are n enough people in o society who listen? >> oh, absolutely. absolutely. if i could think of...here's sort of o things that came out this book. one, the most important new learnings curiosity.

and that's often dampeneor muted in school. when somehow cldren stop aski what i think is a primal question o, where did he go? so, then what happened? , why do you feel that way?" mean, just, these are primal qutions. you know? ansomehow if there's an aner, and only one answer to ese questions, people stop aski the questions. and think the other thing that's important is the listening. when i talk about this, th importance of cross-generatial projects and dialogues. it is about young people listening to old pple. old people listening to yog people. having a real discourse with respecand with empathy. >> moyers: that year old you politicked with la fall in new hampshe. what does he want to do th his fe and what did he learn fro you about wh he could do? >>ell, one of the things that i think he learned fm me was that he will have manyhances to remake himself. meaning that tre will be many

chapters and many chlenges. i think e other thing that we talked a lot about in our lks from house to use was this sortf failure. that is, what i have lrned, and what most people at ou age have learned, as wlook ba on our lives, the value of those moments when we have failed, and we neeto pick ourselves upnd move on. and so, sort of talked about welcoming those moments. but most of e time, he was talking. and heas talking about politics, right? >> mers: the people in here n't talk much about death. >> no. >> moyers: why is that wathat deliberate on your pa? >> no. it wasn't. i think pamela, who you st taed about, is one of the few people in the book that talk about death. they're too busy livin >> moys: but surely they have to think in thback of their mind... >> well... >> moyer they can see the grains of sand gng down the

hourass. i think there is an expressionf urgency in their workin their new work, and in their new learning. this notion of limitedime is very much there. so, you see this incredibl paradox ofhe emerging patience ofhis period, and this sense of uency, of time moving on. >> moyers: so, i'll me back to you. are you feelg that sense of urgenc yore only 64. to m that's just adolescence. in the third chapt. >> well, i certaly am feeling the curiosit i'm feeling the urgency. i'm feeling the tience. i'm feeling the coure to ask questions that may notave been ked before. say what it is i need to sa it isn't that think i'm invincib at all, but i have these qualities at have been, i think, deepened duringhis peod of time.

that i think wl hold me and will help me movforward in th third chapter. >> moyers: peoplin here talk openly about the own fears. what are you afraid of, at ts stage? >> sometimes i'm afraiof loliness. even thougi'm surrounded by glorious family d friends and have lots of love. >> moyers: what do you mean? >> well, i think there is. wh i experience when i look at people in their fourth chapts is the psibility of isolation. is the probability, nojust the probability, but the ctainty that as yogrow older, your friends will dappear, they will die. and i look at mother, who's 94, who has deep curiosity. who's using this stage and chapter of her le to give forward. o's mind is vital and alive. and whs a fabulous listener. >> moyers: wt do you mean she's givi forward?

>> giving forward, i talk abt in this book, a way of serving society. and as a wayf serving society that's contempary, that's meingful. giving bk seems to be asking for sort of anachronism. it like looking backwards. this is looking forwardsnd ying to figure out a way of giving and servinghat fits the ntemporary cultural context. >> mers: so what is she doing? i mean, i know aut your mother, we talked about r 20 some o years ago. i read yr book about her. what is she doinnow at 94? >> she very much in the world and engaged in theorld. but in the meaime at 94, most of her frien have died. and i think th i see that as a profound loneliness, rig? and sohat's one of the things th i worry about. >> moyers: you finish is manuscript, had to finish th manuscript, ortly before the great economic colpse. >> yes.

>> moyers: how do you think e new reality would change t answers th gave you to their questions cause these people largely could afford to make this change, make is turn. >> right >>oyers: how do you think the eat collapse would change eir answers? >> well, i don't knothat it would chge it very much and one of the this that i get back, that i've be hearing, is the fact that the capaci to innova in a time of reduced sources, in a time when you need to sacrific in a time when there is less stuff. the capacity to innovates very much what these people are talking abt. innovation, creativity, that comes out of an expeence that we have now less. you know, that ts notion of "we have less. we are forced therefore do moreith less. to figure out waysf combining our resources, of collaboring, of, as i say, innovating

i rememb times... a time in my life when i was lowest andy mother saying,sweetheart, out of thisuffering will come crtivity." and she was ght. and i don't mean to idealizing this at all. t i think there are ways, i mean, even at place like harvard, right? that's lost 30% its endowment. there's a way in whichhis reduction our resources forces uto think more dynacally, more creatively, about how wean do more with less. in fact, how we can shapa new legacy in this time sacrifice? >> moyers: you make think particully of the baby boomers, about who you wte in here without categoring them. i mean, because l these people

are not baby bmers, but some are. the ba boomers in particular grew up in a piod of prperity of relative abdance, and they saw themselves apowerful actors who wanted to shapthe culture and paradigm of their a. and they bught, as you know, considerable resources a alth to the challenge. w the rug has been pulled ou from under them. and i wonder how they are reacti to the new reality. >> well it true. i think that part of what weid as baby omers in our younger years, we were bodacious, we we audacious. weere entitled, we felt we were empowed. and we ft that we stopped the vietnam war, right? we felt that we gr the women's movement. we were gaged in civil rights actities, we made a fference. we were the actors on th horizon. and even as seems to me, with as you say t rug pulled out, we stillave this feeling about ourselves.

wetill believe that we can ma a difference. we still bieve that we can come up with good ids that might lp to solve what's happeng now. d we must learn however that we are not the owners this intellectual capit or this cultal capital. d that's why i say this sort of energy of bringing pele together, crs generations to soe these problems. >> moyers: the book is "the third chapter: passion, sk, and venture in the 25 years after 50." sa lawrence-lightfoot, thank you for being withe on the jonal. >> you're welcome. it was a great joy >> moyers:e'll return in a few moments with visit to a photographer who hasound art in our hits of mass consumption. it's both eye tching and thought ovoking. but first is is the time that we ask you to dig wn and contribute to this stion.

blic t.v. continues to bring you thought provoking news a public affrs programming unlikenywhere else on television, t we can't do it without yourelp. thank u. i'm rafael pioman, and we'll return to bill mers journal in just few minutes. but fir, we want to remind youf the important role youlay in everything we o here. you know,the goal of bill moye journal has always been o expand our intellecal horizons. now, we believe this is a goal worth supporting, nd so do you! for examp, one viewer wrote, thks for "the mostucid and engaging expnation of our economic cris," while another view told us bill moyers journal "needs to be seen by evy citizen in this country." well, if you agree, ten this is the mont to let us know with yo personal contribution. oe again, we welcome any mount you wish to give, but when you ma a contribution of75, we'll thankyou with the paperback edion of "mers on democracy." now this colection of bill's spehes challenges us

wh his ideas and presents us with important stories that need to be told. join us at e $125 level, and wll send you this special 2 dvd set, "insi the banking crisis this exclusive 4 ur anthology of reprts and intviews from bill moye journal covers every aspt of our current econic predicament from thsubprime mortage medown to the governmentailouts, to the prescriptions for recovery. finally, join us wita contribution of $5 and we' thank you with both the book and the 2 dvd se and now, here's bill moye himself with more. billoyers: let's face it there's really only one ace where you can find e kind of serious teevision news warranted by serious times like the. one place at gives you in-depth newand public affairs pgrams created free ocommercial constraints. o place offering the infmation and analysis you need to derstand what's hapning to us and our world. here at t journal, our goal is jt that kind of journalism andrew bacich: we're going throh the motions of

a demoatic political system, but the fabric of democracy i thi really has worn vey thin. melissa harris-lacell: i didn't even know ianted a black prident. and yet i was moved abt how this made me el coected to my country in a way that i'd never fly felt connected before. it was an asnishing feeling. ll moyers: what we know ere at public television s that journalism is abo things that matter. richard cizik: the ocean came in and began to sweep parts oit away. that's real, that is not hypoetical. bill moye: journalism requis analysis. it's not just mply showg us what can be shown. it's trying to hp us understand the mning and the forces behind events johnniburton: did we have scheduled interview? maria hinosa: but it's just e question, can you just tell uwhy didn't you sign tt order? bill moyers: you've tol us the most reliable source of news a information habeen right here. it's on the nehour, now, washingt week, worldfocus, frontline. and so manyther pbs news and puic affairs programs.

charlie rose: 're live this eveni from new york and washgton. bill yers: it's only here opbs that viewers et the complex view of reality that all of us must unrstand as citizens in oer to cope ith the responsibility that democracy demands of us we want to continuto provide such impornt programs to you, but we need your he to keep this statioon the air. these hard mes mean we need ea other more than ever. so pase, go to your phone ocomputer and pledge whatever you can. thank you rafael pi roman: thanks bil if you tch bill moyers joual for stories that matter then this is the perfet moment to become a partnern everything we here. aft all, it's viewers ke you that make it possibl f us to continue to bng you programs like bi moyers journal. we ofourse welcome any amounyou wish to give, but when you make contribution of $75 wel thank you with the papeack edition of "moyers on democrac" contribut$125 and we'll sed you, the 2 dvd set "bill moyers ournal: inside the bnking crisis." finally, for a generous contribution of $175

we'll se you both the paperck edition of "moyers on democracy" and the 2 dvd set. if you've come toepend on bill moyers jonal and this station, thenhis is moment to makeour voice heard. so please call the number on your screen or log on to our website a make your personal contrution right now. we ank you for your suppor >> thearnings on this one are all written in chinese characters. doot recharge, put in fire, disassemble,ut in backwards or mix with useor other battery types. may explode or leak. our consumptiolooks like something from a dtance, and en, when y get up close, it oks like something very

dierent. from a dtance it looks like all these nice, shiny thgs thate get to own. and these grealifestyles that we get to live. wh you zoom in close, and you learn about the toxic mels, and the world-de pollution, the details look differenthan it looked when you sto back at a distance. myame is chris jordan, and i us to be a photographer and now i'm some kind of digital photographic artist. this is called "plasc bags 2007." this is ,000 plastic bags, which is five secos worth of plastic bag usage inhe united states that's five seconds worth plastic bags all of my work is ant to evoke a whe bunch of different layers odiscord between the attraction and repulsion tt we feel toward our consumer hits

and r consumer lives. 's like there's this tremendo power in our culture that has a dk side to it that has surfaced lately. and that'sind of what i'm working with. yep, that's exactly how m going to shootm. i find myselwalking these lines. like i mighte an artist, but i also might ban activist. and i'm trng to be both in way that hors both and doesn't stratoo far into either. for ny years, all i was intereed in about photography s aesthetic beauty. anso, i would go out loong r that. and what i would do is go t driving aroundhe port of seattle i'd go down to tacoma d drive around the port ther wh i was interested in at the time was juscolor, places

whe color appears inadvertently places where thers this color that appears in a very compleand beautiful way, but nody intended it. a lot of the phographs i took backhen, i had to trespass. i had sneak in or climb over gates or over fences osundays to te these photographs. i worked with this camera th was about, i don't know, tee and half or four feet wide. it was an 8x10 view camera. and a tripod thawent up 11 feet. anone day, i found a pile of garbage th was really betiful, i thought, and so i photographed it. and i made a b print and hung it on my wl. and pele would come over and look at it and they would stt talking about nsumerism. and they'd walk upnd say, "oh, look, the's an altoid's can." orhere's a, whatever

particularly consumer oduct that they regnized in the photograph. and then thewould start talking abougarbage and waste and they wld tell me, "chris, is is a different kind of age that you haven't made before." d they would sort of urge me to follow the thread. and i told them, "i'm t interested in all that. like, dot talk to me about modern art. and don'tell me to come up to date. just check out my cool cosc color theory." and it really took while for me to assimilatehat this was a new kind of path could follow. and as i look backit's something that truly cannot take credifor is finding my way to consumerism as a bject, because it founde. my own idea of it stard to change. and went from these brightly colored ings, and it slowly started to get little darker. there's this contrast betwee the auty in the images and the underlying gtesqueness of the

subjects. and it's something that i pu there intentionall because i was using beautys a seduction, tdraw the viewer in to sit through t piece long engh that the underlying message might ep in. it was frustrating becau i would show mwork to people and they would tell me howeautiful it was. bu they wouldn't get that it's about conserism. then i wouldhink, okay, i can gourther. want to make an image that i affirmatively ugly a viscal pile of twisted wires supped to look like monster guts, or something like th. i uldn't really show the scale of american ma consumption. i could only ht at it. i would alwaysave to say, "and this photograph on represents a tiny drop in the bucke

compared tthe actual quantity things that we use or we scard." and as it came time r me to thk about doing a new series it ourred to me, what if i could show thectual quantities of the things that we consum e of the dilemmas i faced wa that there's nowhere where tre are massive pis of the actual detritus of our entireountry's consumption. and so the oy way i could possly depict those things was to cate digital images that putogether lots and lots of little photogrhs. th one is called "toothpicks". we he 100 million trees in the uned states that are cut every year for maiorder catalogues. ch toothpick in this image i one tr cut just to make mail order catalogues in one moh. eight llion toothpicks.

our minds are just not wir to be able to really comprend and ke meaning of and feel numbe that are that huge. and if the only way we're getting all of this formation about thesprofoundly important phenomen that are going on in our society is throu statistics, en we aren't going toeel what we need to feel in order to make the dical changes weeed to make. th one is called "plastic boles" and it depicts two million plastic ttles, the number that we use in the uned stes every five minutes. this is the equivale of eight tire football fields and that's five mites worth of plastic bottles. so i just curious what lots and lots of the are going to look like. i think of other artists w get

to creatfor long periods of time like painters who might ke them a month oactual... the creativerocess of puttin paint on t canvass. and, wh my work, the way it happens, is i ha a flash of an id that'll just be this inantaneous, "i got it." and it might be wes and weeks of just the most incredibly obsessive wo in photoshop. but that's the oy way that i can realize the id that i had. and so i really don't...t doesn't fe like there's a lot of creativity in my rk. it's mostly ju pure, obsessive tedium in photoshop. as i released thfirst few images in my running nber series, i gosome really negave feedback. onperson said this, "this is computerhenanigans that my 12 ar old daughter could do." but i'm just willing tbe with that, becae what i care about is the message. this one icalled "prison iforms, 2007" and it depicts

2.3 million folded prin uniforms, equal the number of americans incaerated in 2005. we he the largest prison popution of any country on rth. there's also no other untry that has that percenge of its population ijail. and that iludes all of the dictatships that we think of as the enemies of freedo i want people to realize tt ey matter. because, to me, th's the key. when you stand back om the print you e the collective. you walk up close, you can see that the collecte is only made up ofots and lots of individuals. there is no bad consumerver there somewhere who eds to be educat. there is no publ out there who needs to chae. and that's kind of t underlying message that m tro ngeyyinvco. it's each e of us. moyers: that's it for this weekbut the jonal continues

on ourebsite. log on to pbs.org, cck on "bill mors journal" and you can e more from chris jordan and hear more from sarah lawrence-lightfoot i'm bill moyers ani'll see you next time. captning sponsored by publ affairs televisiono mess acupa rowg gnvio aby media acss group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> tell us ur third chapter stors and view a web exclusive:hris jordan's "in katra's wake." log on at pbs.g. i'm rafa pi roman,

here to remind you ofhe important role youlay ithe future of this statin.

ifyou value bill moyers jrnal and the programs y find here everyday, then all you have to do call t number on your scrn or log on to our website with your personal ctribution. now we know how much yo appreciate bill moyes work because you'veold us so. for example, one viewer wrote this: "your blending of story with current affair on ... friday's proam made for that ... ra moment when televis lived up to its educional potential. thank you for a thought-provoking hour... well, you share these sentents, please remember that it's your membehip dollars that make bill moyerjournal part of ourews and current affairs linep every week. now, we welcome any amount you wish to give, buwhen you make aontribution of $75, we'l thank you with a paperback edition o "moyers on democrac" a collectioof bill's speeches at has been called "richly insigful and alive with an ading love for our country." joius at our $125 level d we'll send you the special 2vd set, "inside thbanking crisis." this exclusive 4 hou anthology of report and interviewsrom bill moyers journ covers every aspect of our rrent economic predicament

from the subprime rtage meltdown to the vernment bailouts, to therescriptions for recory. finally, for contribution of $1 you'll receive th the book and th2 dvd set. and now, here's bill moye. bill moyers: was present at the eation, so to speak, woing at the white house asresident johnson's assistant for legislation, when the first meetings we held at the office of edution that eventuay would lead to the public brdcasting act of 1967. lyndon johnson: it wilbe free, and it will be iependent and it will belong to all of our people. television is still a young invention. but w have learned alrea that it has immense, even revolutinary power to change, to change r lives. ill moyers: the public broadcasting service, including this station, has made a singular contributi to the life of theind, to ournderstanding of our rld, and to the use of our isure time. through these years i've sn our local stationstruggle, always scrambling to ma ends meet

while fhting to remain comtted to giving you a caliber of entertainme and information unlike anythi else on american tv. jim lehrer: good eveng, i'm jim lehrer. billoyers: the programs u see here ster the cversation essential democracy barack obama: it's n that my positions re different, buthe language and toneas one of, let unify the country. bill moyers: they eamine the imperfect humanondition. mike poulos: seven out of every ten inmates that leave thisrison comes back. we need to stop that revolving door. bill mors: they enchant us th music and drama. pete seeger: ♪oh, you t to walk, you got to wk, tt lonesome valley, thalonesome valley...♪ bill moyers:nd they ceebrate diversity and cativity. the root of th word "television" isvision from afar," nd that is what public roadcasting aims to do, brg to us visions of ideas and dreams of imagination that put us in tou with a larger worl a grter reality. tre have been many times i the past when publ television

has teetered on the edge of the abyss, but never hav i seen public broaasting in th fix we face now. the economy is hurng all of us and the ople who in e past have so willgly pulled out their wallets and checkbos just don't have t wherewithal to do sright now, as much they might want to. like ery other institution and every other non-profit we are going tough drastic cutbac and layoffs. but consider this, plse, as you ponder ging us as little or much as you think u are able. research consistent has shown that the jority of you believe public televisionrovides more in-depth, trustwrthy, fair and baland news aninformation than the mmercial networks. andn the midst of this crent calamity, you've tld us that the most reliable source of news aninformation on america'economic crisis has been rigt here. mark landler: forc had been unleaed that we couldn't control. john hilsenth: the entire investmentanking model was blown up in a week. billoyers: you've told ushat it's on the newsho, now, wasngton week, worldfocus,

the journal, frontline. and so many other pbs ns and public affai programs. what we know heret public television is tt journalism about things that maer. journalism reqres analysis. it requires interpretion. t's not just simply owing us what can be shown. it'trying to help us unrstand the meaning and the forces behind it. "beware the terrible simplifiers," is a phrase i think of ofn in our business. it's only here on pbthat viewers get thcomplex view of reality that all of us must understand as citizens in order toope with the accotability and resnsibility that democcy demands. please help us contie to help you maksense of it all. call yo local station an contribute what you can. thank you. rafael pi romanthanks bill. now, pase take this moment toall the number on your reen or log on to ur website wityour personal contribution. once again, when yomake a contributi of $75, e'll thank you with aaperback copy of "moye on democracy," a ollection of some of bill's mosinsightful speeches.

contribute $125 and well send you the 2 dvset, "bill moyers journal: inside the banking cris." finly, for a contributn of $175 we'll send you bothhe paperback edition, "moyers on democracy" and the 2 dvd set. and if 've heard from you ring the last few minutes we ank you very much forour support.