>> rose: welcome to the broadct, tonight a look at "julia -- julie and allia" with merylstreep and the

director nora hron. >>h, gosh, how do you define charm and that thing that/people ha where they exude joiee vivr that what she had. she seemed to be happy to be alive ery day that she was. she ved to be 92. >> and juliaone of the ings i was so kcked out by when i started doing the research becse i just hadn'tut itogether, becae she seemedso agels, really, was that e didn't become julia child unti she was 50 yrs old. >> re: and we conclude this evening with the remembnce of a friend, architect crles ga watt me gwatey who died of cancer on monday. >> arctecture as frank lloyd wright said appropriatelis the mother of all a it is holtic it affects all our lives both consciously and you conscious ly. it is about the enronment, thean-made environme.

and th when you tnk abouit, people wh travel, o take long trips, actually go to plas to see ildings, to experience archecture. so ielieve it's impact upon the conscious and the perception -- persept all parameters of one's existence is total. rose: julie and julia the movie and charles gwathmey the life,oming up. >>unding for charlie rose s been provided by the following:

caioning sponsored by rose communications from our stuos in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose:ood is one of li's pleasures and necessities itas been a subject society r nturies. rmeateing literature and art and music, and certainly movies. ♪ food dollaruous food ♪. >> i will be slinging pizza for the rest of my life. >> the bestizza! >> tell me what theat wants to coo. >> it's a peasant dish too hot for you? >> no. >> i read your artic about ice cream and i ha to tell you i disagree withou

about haagen-dazs rum raisn. >> wt can i say. >> so vicious. >> i'm a vicious person. >> blueberry pie and cream, it's the most marvelous blue pey pie i've ever tasted. >> holy ledo,hat's haening to your taste >> cool it dad let me finish. >> violet, y're turning violet, violet. >> inow what i want, -- >> i ate his liver with some fa beans and nice chianti. >> leave the gun. take theanolli. >> well, he came in, you came. in i fured, you know -- >> you know what time it is. >> i'm so happy see him. look, go inside. make yourself comfortable. i'm make you sometng to eat. >> this what t ctomer asked for. maket. make the pasta, make it, make it, make the pasta. come on, let go. >> but i wou like the pie heated and don't want t ice crm on top, iould

li it on the de and i would like strawberrys if yohave it, and if you didn't no ice cream. >> now theirector and writerora etch ronas taken her passio for food and paired it with her passion for writi and directing. her new dis is called "julie and julia" it stars meryl strep and amy adams and others. and speaki of meryl streep as julia chd, e new york time ss in its review, by now this aress has exhausted every superlative that exists and to suggest that sheas outdoneerself is only to s that she has done it ain. her pformanceoesbeyond physical limitation -- imation though she has the unded shoulders and the fluting voice down perfectl and "the washingn post" notes julie andulia might have staed out as a -- to the joys of cooking but it turns out oo be an even more profou appreciation of the mutual comprehension and erotic chge that definea great mriage. and finally "the wall seet journal," nora ephron's

julie and julia give us meryl streep in a grand comic peormance. a fearss actress playing the fearless julia child in po world war ii paris where she is the process of transformg hersel from an embassy wife in a world famous apostle o french cuisine. here is the trailerfor juliand julia. >> i'm jia child. bon app at this time. before she chged the world, julia cld was just an arican living in france. >> shouldn't i fd something to do. >> what it that you real like to do? >> eat. and you are so good at it. look at you. now -- >> i'm growing in front of you. >> what does jul child have to do th me? lowly bicle worr julie powell. >>ow is your job, jie. >> are the persono speak to about your insurance form. >> you canpeak to me. >> do you have anyower? >>o. >> heartbreaking. >> so sad. >> pnful. >> not in bad way. >> do you think i'lost.

is this lost, if you met me would you ink that well is lost. >> i would think that woman is strangely repetive. >> d you hear what haened to this one. >> showtimbought my blog for a miniseries. >> i could wte a book. i have thoughts. >> not a realcook like julia ild. >> julia child wasn't always julia child. >> why don't i gto cooking school. bonjour. julie -- julia project, i ok my way through julia child's cookbook, 35 days, 524 recipes. i' risking me well-being for a deranged assignment. is it crazy? >>es. >> you should ha seen the way those men looked at me >> buthen they discovered i wasearless. >> oh, julia, you make it sounso sple. >> your book is going to chan the world

>> what if i don'take my deadline. i'll wasted a whole year of my life. i used to be tn and now i'm fat. >> just your face. >> is supposed to be a big venture but then it just turned out to be a lot of ltdowns. >> there all of this sff on the floor >>h, never apolise. >> from writer/rector nora ephr. >> this is good >> that is good, isn't it? >> meryl streep, amy adams. >> i was drowninnd she pull me out of the ocean. >> what'for dinner. >> what'for dinr you have no -- for cooking. and mi pleased to be joined by two friends, nora ephron the writer and director and meryl streep, a grt actress. julie anjulia, would have been as good or bette or half gd if it was jt the story ofjulia child? >> well, i don't know. she had etty great life. >> rose: yeah, exactly.

but i love -- i love -- i immediately loved the idea oflaying the two livesff against one another. one that immiately thght about was theours whicis a movie i loved that meryl was. in and whichseally about one book. and how -- how, yo know --. >> re: one book by phillip roth. >> no, no, thawas by virginiaoolfe. >> and how her book mrs. dlway reached yrs and ars into the future. >> to her people's lives. >> rose: yeah. >> and so i started out really thinkg this -- this a mie about a book. and then of cose i realized it was a movie about 18 oer things. and dending whom i'm talking toi change the thing. if you were a foodwriter i would tell youas about food. anlast night i was at the smithsonian meum where they dedicated a whole wa of julia pots. and i infoed everyone

ere that it was aovie about america. >> rose:y the way, the smith sonia has a lot of her stuff. >> it has her kihen. >> rose: as well a her mento. >> it ha her kitchen minus one wallf pots and yestery they arrived the. so that is why i was there. >> o i didn't know that. >> yeah, so >> great. rose: were you a devotee of julia child. >> i was in hi school, i was in the 8th gra. >> rose: but the boohas been - >> whenher show started. >> rose: but the book isn its 1,000t inting. it doesn't mater what generation are you fro >> no, no, exact. mother was not a devotee it was hurry up and eat it. >> rose: buto you cook. >> we had a l of steaks, chopsand tuna fishnd noodle sserole. >> rose: b you, did you cook. >> me? >> rose: you. >> yes, cook. >> rose: becau she is obsessed by it, ar't you. >> i love food. i loved if and i like cooking a lot, i d i do. >> rose: so this was even more so a lar of love for

you. >> a i lost love there being good food on a movie set. and we not only h good food in the sor of craft servicplace but then had all this juliahild foodhat there was ways a huge amount left overand we got to eat it. >> re: why was she magical? >> oh, gosh, how d you define cha and that thing at certain people have where they exude je de vivr that's wt she had. she seemed to behappy to be ale every day that she wa she lived to be 92. and even --. rose: and she found the love of her life aer reswreing others. >>eah. >> rose: loong for the right -- >> yes i don't know how ch rejecting she did tu down t guy who was gng to be the -- thatowned the "l.a. times", one of those chandlers. >> rose: tned him down. turned him down. >> rose: she wasn't quite ready. >> yeah. and i think you know, she

was 6, 2, her sister was 6, 4. i thk they were used to being sort of outsized -- out -- sized out of the competition f men. >> rose: tall women have hard time. >>ell, eecially then, i ink. people were littler >> rose: she was in th oss whh made her always when you heard lia child, wn you found that little nugget out she somehow came even more interesting. >> yes. but i don't -- i certainly don't think she was a spy in any -- in any rl way. i thinkshe had -- think she worked wi classified materialnd --nd filed it beautifully. but i don't think, i could be wrong, but she- she w a trut telle and she always said she wa a clerk. and i thinshe was telli the trh. there weren't lot of women in -- in high positions in the oss.

>> rose: . >> she wasantastically organized. >> rose: when you tart to -- started to do this you d one phone call to make, didn't y. >> yes. that's tru i did. >> rose: an if she had sai no would you have still made it? i don't think the studio would haveade it. would happily have madeit with someone some lesse human being, you you kw, but you know, mery had done -- us a gigantic favor by having two smash hit movies. so --. >> rose: the studio wanted her badly. >> well, everyone does. >> rose: so the story you want us to undetand and appreciate is these o very interesting people who are bound by o single thing, julia child's life and julia chil's wanna-be. >> onef the themes there e so many overlapping thes. i moan this is ally about ve. it's really aut marriage. it's reallybout a kind of

marriage that actually exists, thank godt does or people would have accus me of making thi up. buthere are guys who really do take enormous pleasuren their wives grow. and ange andll ofthose things. so that was -- that was one of the things i loved tha it wasbout. loved realizing tt halfway through th i was writg a mov about marrge. and how rare it is at you get t d is kindof marriage. because movies reqre plot but a maiage, a goo marriage reques the sence ofplot. the st thing you want is for something to happen. you know, you do not want the thing that makes pele walk outhe or or -- or, you ow, that's the norma movie about a marriage alys has somebody walking out the do at the end of the seco act of th movie. well they dn't really he

that kind of marriage. these people we really tother. and at w fun. that was f to do. >> rose:hey had it all there was sex and tre was food. >> there was food. and you know, he -- julie powell was turning 30, ha gone to amhurst was really smarand very talented. an was working in the manhtan redevelopment corporation, wtever it's called, dealing with all the victims of 9/11. this was not, and i think she took that j thinking it wou be very rewarding and instead it was- it was unbelievably difficult. and it s very hard at the end of the day to think she'd done anythg. and these -- thi thing, this little id of hers meant at every single day she actually accomplished somethin she cooked mething out of this cookbook. and then thnext morning at 5:30 she gotp and wrote about it it is a remarkabl daunting

ing she did. >> rose: rimen and discipline. and so washat julia did, you kn. and they both changed their live and julia, one of the things i was so kcked out by when i started doing the research because just hadn' put it together, beuse she seemed so ageless, really, was that she didn't become julia child until she w 50 years old. this personho was famous all my life woun'-- >> didn't gng famous until she s 50 >> she didn't become julia child. >> rose: okay, she didn't beco julia child buthe became this sort of person when sheound -- when she was in france. i an france opene up everythi to her before she went otelevision to bome famous. >> yeah, but i think she had always been a very you know, i think sh loved france and she came to life inrance and she found her calling. t then ihink she spent eight yrs with, you know saying and i'm writin a

cookbook and everyone goi oh, of course you are,dear. >> like sayinging i'm writing a cldren's book which many people do and then it just goes on andn even though it i 35 pages. yeah, i think that -- it's very interesng to me that they fel in love, that he fell so hard for her before she knew what she wanted to be. and for many years before is she kn if that was ever going to wor out. >> rose: and why d he -- why. >> how could youot. i me in a wa in a way he was an unusual man but they t -- in china and -- >> he led food and wine and books and -- >> yes, i think he was in his late s when they met. >> rose: 10 years fference in a. >>eah, he had had a lov fo a long me who died. he- he was, you know, he had be throughtuff and heanted only mething real, it smed to me readingbout the and he und someone real. and heust lovedthat about

her. that's t thing that just went rht through the indesion of herarly years and then e certainty of her later years. just r authenticity as a person, her character. >> rose: if you have someone who iso pronnced in size, in psonality, in voice, distinct and different, easier to do or harder to ? >> hmmmm, um well,it pends if they're there rooking atou. when i made heartburn, there she was on the set. and i couldn't rllyo her. but it was kind of certain elents were irresistable. and so you know, i felt like -- weing a straight jackets. >> rose: like ich ones. >> just the way of wrangli a phse and sort of polishing itith the fro of your mouth, y know that whole thing. >> re: what makes her

unfriging believable. but i think if they areout the observing you, thatis my oy thing. >>ose: when you played her what you were tryi to capture when you played her. >> jia. >> rose: no. yes. >> rose: nora. >> oh, no, no, no, no. >> yeah, you know it was -- it was a very familiar, the outlines were very familiar to people inew that. and me too. andut in a way day akroyd's version was even re vivid in our mind. so it wa aeady kindf ricatureed in your head. and didn't want to -- i wanted to lo at her in the idealized way thatulie did. i wanted, becau this is julie's imaned juli, in her head she imagis this

gal in paris with her -- with her husband. and i think becauset's in this rosyed hue i just wanted to ma it as real as itould possibly be b i didn't feel that really had to adhere ery piece of reseah i'd done on julia. i just wanted to me a human beg that lived >> re: did you watch a lot of tap and all that? >> yeah, yeah. so of them werencredibly unhelpful because younow, the show became kind of more performed later in her life. but the very earliest ones when she first put herself in front of a camera, in those da hard to remember, peopleidn't know what ey looked like ontape. people weren bei otographed from the fetal stage, you know, andhrown up on the tv screen so s was sort ofeally

authencly w she was. and she was 50 and formed and done, you know. >> rose: do you believe success is better when it comes laten life? >> oh, scess is okay whenever it comes, you know. >>ecause it ebbs and then it gs away and then it comeback again sometime. >> rose: how would y know? all righ, hers a clip from the film. julie andulia with merylyoureng an omele she changed everything, bere her it was frozen food and c oners and marshmallows. >> don't knock marshmallows. when you fli anything u just got to have t courage of youronvictions, especially if it aloose sort of mass like -- oh, that didn't -- go very well. >> no, that didn't go very well. see when i flipped it, i didn't -- didn't have th courage to do it the way i should have. but you can always pick it up if you are alo in the

kitchen who is gng to see. >> if e you alone in t kitchen, who is to see. >> pearl always wearing pearls in the kitchen you've just got to practice, like the ano. i'm jua child, bon app he at this me. >> bon app hat this time. and bonappetite. this jua child. >> she is so relieveit's overnd that she doesn have to hold her ce in. >> ros what was she like off camera. she was everything we saw here with meryl off camera. >> well, my frnds who knew her, i mean one of my friends b gotlieb who was the editor and chief in knopff when they published the cookbook said that she was a christmas tree, just a

twinklinhuman bei, big, twinkleing hearnerson. she was irresiable and everyone fell in ve with her. en she moved to france, i mean s lived in a couple ofountries where she was even talle than tall. she was in celon andhina and then france. and within a week everyone there knew herecause she was so -- she stood out literally and she relaxed everyone about the fact that she --. >> ros was bigger than they were a larger-th-life character even. >> she was the real deal. >> uh-huh. >> and i'm sad i ner met her. >> me too. >> re: are you. >> yeah. >> because i think she wld have been one those -- one of t few that st made y not remotely disappointed in them a a person. >>ose: she was -- i member, i d two interviews with her. it was unbievable. yowill see a little bit. she was in her 80s. she diedour days before she was . anothetape just to g a sense of whathis movie is

like. this isuliachild and r husband played bytanley -- roll tape, here is. >> what should i dodo you think? >> about what? >> wel, i don really wa to go back into government work. shouldn't i find something to do. wives don't do anything here. that's not me. that's not me. >> i know. >> i saw a notice on the bullin board at the bassy. hamaking lesns. >>ou like hats. >> io. io. i do >> what is it that you really like to do. >> eat s this's what i like to do.

>> inow. i know, i know. and you are so gooat it, ok at you. >> i a good at i i'm growing in front of you. >> thanot a good marriage i'veever seen a good rriage. to talk like that, yes? >> tt's true. at's true. wellhey -- they really lped each other at all times. helped each other up. helped each othe whenhey wereou know, it was-. >> rose: and how dide take her success? >> oh, are youidding? he was 60 years old. he basically --. >> rose: his career was over. his career was over and had not really been the career tt he dreamt of and suddenl they were famous. she s famous. he became -- he went everywre, he was her manager. itas unbelievable. they were at the centre of the universe at the ag of 60 and 50. it was fantasticfor both of them. >> and -- and she, t star

just went bghter and brighter and brighr and bright. was there any fws here? >>n the marriage? no, iher. >> well, we don't know. but in --ou know, there's no question that the julia we show theovie was julie powells idea, you know. and i certaly in reading about her thoht oh, i'm not li that. i'm st notike that. she's a mucbetter human being than i will ever be. and i thk you sharehat feeling. >>eah. i mean no, i just, i felt that you know, you never know, really the ins and outs of a person, a personality. i mean it's hardenough to know. >>now where -- >> understand the people in ur own family. d your ow parents. t to imagine that you know the inner life and conflts

and anxieties of a plic person,t's very, very diffict. but it's elessly interesting, what mak me want to be an acto i mean it's myreat fun. but i thought you know, i have -- i never met her but i did have an encounter with her. >> rose: what s the counter. >> during the time that i was working, for about t years. i was woing with a group calledothers and others, which was tryi to get orgac produce in the local supermarkets, a thing tt was just imposble and unheard of. and nobody, you know, couldn get it. and i thought it would be a grt idea to enlist her help. but she really brued off in a very sort o dismissive rough way in

lett. and that kind of -- it made myorld cmble becau she seed like someone who was so sunny. and yet i -- and yet in learning more about her learned that she was ver resistt to t idea that anything to do with raising yo cholesterol might he something to do with butter anall these well marbled meats and things. >> rose: i tught she might have lovedhe idea because most great chs love organic food, don't the >> but this is very early. >> ts was earlyance and she change her mind. >> and she did change her mind. and well,alice waters can talk more, autr at that meively about this. but she did. and she came around. but bere she came ound, she was -- she had aitanic kind of potential to have a snit, seemso me. it was there. >> tk about stanley performance. because we saw everyoment you casit here lik this

and you look at itore closely and you see just a takethat must gladden a direct's heart. >> wel no, i mes that's ke your dream if you wre a scene li that. and to be perfectlyhonest withou, thend of that sce is animprove that stanley and merylid. d you know, the scene i wrote ended with the word, i like to eat. and he said an you're so good at th time. and she sa i am, i'm growinin ont -- i am, good. i amrowing right in front of you. >> that your dream of what is going t happen when o actors are cpletely happy working together. >> oh, we could have gone on and on and on. >> a well they did in seral takes. >> rose: that is whai was going to ask. >> is your dream f them to that. >> my eam is to have the dictor let you do it even though, ev if he or sh is going to cut it out in the d. it mak you feel is creative and y feel like ll, everything we do is right. >> rose: and also.

>> that's a greafeeling. and en you get some happy surprises out of it. >> re: and a greatscript ll tee it up so you can go really -- >> shutly, has to bthere. >> rose: take off. let's look at one re clip here this is entertaining guests at valentine's y. here it is. >> weryou spie? >> no. yes. no. (laughter) >> you were in the office of strategiservices and you were not spies? >> i wasonly a file clerk. bupaul, paul designed all of the secret war roomsor general. >> well, just maps and exhibits and thing >> he did. he sine-handedly won the war. >> wel i had to. someone diditnesses it's true. >> it was dragginon, wa't it. yway, so there we were in china, just frids havg dinner and anit turned out to be julia.

it turned out to be julia all along. >> oh. julia, you are the butter to my bread and the breath my le. i love you, darling girl. ppy valtine's day. >> happy valentine's day. >> wl, if youhink that was the script, you know, it wasn't. d i think -- >> w were walking by noter dain one of the scenes and i thought i am noter dam and he's my flying buttress. (laughte >> i have that ige. he'll never forgive me for that. but he's just --. >> ros can you just say that one more time. >> no. he's so adul 's so generous and soulful and eortlessly tre's a certain urbanity and

cosmopolan things that's very heteroseal in the way that -- it's almost like another time and it was another time. i mean how staey achieves that sort of effortlessly and without a lot ofwords, aming. >> uh-huh. >> rose: but i get the impression that a t of this kind of thingas happing throughout this movie. yogave them a frawork. >> tt what you hope is going to happewhen you make a movie, you kno th's a tng i learned really early on as a writer, because i started out thinki oh, don't let them touch a word of my dialogue. and then you start worng witheople who e good writs and are funny. and they make it better. they changit and they ma it betr. and you got to be open to that. because you can always not use it in th cutting room if it doe't work. t sometimes it's so much better than wt you started

out with. or it's st a natural growth from the scene. >> ros you said everything you haddone in food all your life had prepared you to make th movie. well, i -- i you know t was so personal for me even thou it's the storiesof two other wom. i lovefood as you know. i'm obssed with food. i think abou itconstantly. and i had grown-up, i had become a grown-up in new york cooking from julia's cookbook. i had written a litt bit about her oe and gotten a letter from her. and and so that part the story waso personal, so i just loved workith it. lod trying to figure o how you put those two pieces together. >> rose: and how my of the thgs in thatook, the

recipes do you still prepare. >> tee. >> rose: theare. >> they are lamb stew. th are boe borgeonon e of the stars of this movie and they are icken breast with cream and mushrooms and port. >> ros and why those three, do y know. >> those are the one -- >> rose: you like the od you like. >> this is the thinwith okbooks is that itsually two or three things it, a cookbook you love, the cookbook that you say i ok from it all the time, it means you have fou two or three things you lovin it. >> it's so true. that's so true, yeah. and so --. >> rose: you havsaid this before, thatora gave you kind of direion when she ld you she needed you to embody, u said this earlier, jul powell's idea of julia child. >>eah. that wasn't me. that was meryl's idea that was one of the ys meryl--. >> rose: to geon to it. >> yeah, that's one of the yeahs it that i coulclimb on and noteel too ilty abt it. >> rose: and did you that

reading -- >> about failing. >> rose: flure something yoknow? >> well, y just always, it is th thing whe you say, you spoke of earli the reonsibility to someone who really exied and who people loved. not e pulation. i didn't care some of about that. but her family. >>ose: tell me about that. you wanted her family t-- >> iidn't want to disappoint, ah. >>ose: you wanted them to y you nailed it. >> no, i --. >> rose: or you were true to her. >> icaptured her. >> rose: spirit. >> yes. because really, reallyor me it was more li i mean nestly, it was more a homage to mywn mother who had so many of the outsized ements of julia's character and her joy in living and her see of fun and mischief and being up for anything a game and not interested in whining

whatsoever. you ow. all those thing and i thoht oh, hers mary. ani get to do it. >> rose: here is mar your mother. >> yeah. >> rose: now are y your mother's daughter? >> i have a little bitf bothi think. >>ose: which is -- >> well, my mother and my father. and my dad is, was much more of a romantic. and a musician and a ltle melanchoe and a lite dreamyand sol taree. and i have all of ose thingstoo. >> rose: did ty both live to see all the goothings that hpened to you. >> yes yes. l the grandchiren and -- yeah. but myom died there 2001 when thisakes pce. this film. and it's opening today on r birthday. so i fe like there's some wonderful serendipity rk. >> rose: was tt in your

mind clearly. >> it's neve farrom mind,yeah. >> rose: allight, here is julia child in a shothat she did with me in 1995, roll te. here it is. >> you sti eat out a lot or do you ok at hom >> i cook at home mo than i eat out. and this is goi to be a ry good meal. i would rather e at home. i mean i don't gout just to -- just to ed. igo to dine. >> rose:ou have said befo that yourareer had lot to do with timing and luck and bng at the rig place at the rightime. >> oh,ery much so. when we hadstarted with french cooking five years before. would have laid age g. >> rose: really? >> yeah. >> rose: why? >> becauseeople weren't that interested. >> rose: people ren't interestedn french cooking. >> ihink it caught on because suddly people were able to get a -- because you could flrather than go boat so awhole the lot o people ben eating this wonderfu food, mostly in france at first i think.

and en you had the kennedys in e white house. >> ros and mrs. nnedy loved -- >> she did. >> rose: french cooking. did you know her. >>o, never met her. i knew her chef, in san francisco, wonderful chef. >> rose: there isomething to be said about the sort of timing of all this, when she, beuse of the kennedys. because younow cosmopolitan life became admired because of t kennedys, yes she coincided wh thtime or gaveovement to time. >> i hadn't really connected thatt all b i rember when think the present of fnce came to the whe house when the kennedys, and they had thesteak dinner. ani was working in the white housat tha momt in my brief wing as the only intern the psident didn't make a pass at. and they hading, they serd chken morengo how this detai sticks in my

head. and i wasery proud because we had had it he. >> oh, wow. >> my motherad gone into the moren. >> rose: meryl wants tha people who knew lia and loved julia to feel thatshe captured the srit. wh do you want? >> from this mov? rose: yes. >> o you want people to go out to dinner. >> rose: of course youo. >> do. i do. want people to go out and have --. >> rose:ou want them to fall in love with the ia. >> or cook something. >>o with the person that they love. cook something nice. >> i have vy modest hopes had. i justant people to feed themselves aittle bit better wn they're done seeing it. >> rose: to appreciate food. you want them all become foodies. >> no, no you don'have to do tha but the truthis, that people hav forgotten h easy it is to ck and how much fun it is to cook. and what the whole point of cooking is to mwhich is that it makes a place a home. doesn't matterf you are relatedo the peoe in the ho or not it is what

brings pple together. theyll want to be in the kitchen anyw. >> that's true. >> are you on a roll as they say. is she not? >> no kiing. >> rose: no kidding. >> lots of rolls. >> rose: isn't it a eat time to meryltreep? >> yeah. i mean but --. >> rose: i mean everytng, the family tng. e kids are -- >> i'm getting set up her. >> rose: no, you're not. i'just fishing. >> no, i mean just b fate. we don't want to look at our good fortune, really in the eye. but i am very hap and lucky. and tired at the moment, ready to take a break. >> rose: how long is a break. >>ell, i made seven movies two and a half years. rose: why? >> ion't know. beuse they asked me to. and -- i guess my children were older and said go, go, do, you ow. >> rose: do you continue learn? >> yeah, sure. >> rose: do yoreally? >> yh.

>> rose: in other word hang had this experience you are better. >> i don't know. i n't know. this w so fun and sort of effortle that itidn't, i think you learn more from the challenng things, the things that are tougher to do in the past >> rose: whawas the tougst? >> -- >> nno, no. there have been tough thin that i care, i probably won't go into. but just becausejust cause they, my molecules change in , aording t how happy i an my creativity gets -- you know, what i learn every time out how to wrangle all the elements tt make me love what do and make it sort

of happen efforessly. and whe that doesn't come easily i don't really have a bag of trickso go to or a method, you know. i don't. so come unmoored. and part of that is a very goodhing. beuse you have to reassemb. nobody kno what i'm talkinabout. >> >> no, w do. >> actorsdo. >> but so no, n no. >> and so it's very good to have to start blank and figure out how toegin agn. how to begin again. it's very good. >> rose: how are acrs diffent than the restf ? >> well, they live a zen life. it's -- it very uncertain. and all lives are uncertain. but actors know it. and actor its because you're unemoyed so often. and you live so intensely in the moment that you are working.

that when you come back to earth and loo around, u knowthat ballo has gone. and there's no other one on the horizeon. so you live where youre. i think actorslive exacy where theyre. the really good ones. and that's why they sm kind of crazy. >> we alshould be there. isn't that where w should all want to be. >> yes, i think so. ihink it is where we liv ye. >> w, what am i talking out? >> two things. on isit -- -- ts will profound demonstrate how stupid i am. julia child invited me to boston t have dinner wit her at her houseafter that show. >> and you didn't go. >> rose: i didn't go. >> you know, s once invited me to lunch. i never met her bu she wrote a letter and iite immediate to lch. >> re: because. >> ias never in boston.

>> ros same thing with me. i just never go around to it and then, you know -- and i just think about h stupid now, escially now having all this come forth. so there you go. congratulations. >> thank you. rose: really con greaations. >> thankou. >> rose: ando you. >> thank you. thanks lot. >> thanks. wz architect chaes gwatey died of cancer o monday here in new york. he was 71. chles gwathmey was best known for his mornist design and hi passion for geometry. his work includesuseums, commercial spaces, and homes fosteven spiberg david geffenjerry seinfeld a his parents. architecture critic paul goberger notes he was at his best at small sle which made him the opposite of almost ery other major architect of our times. arles gwathmey was just 28 and a few yearsutof yale

school of architect when he designed a house and studio r his parns on long island. he once described the gwathmey houseas a solid block thatsas been carved back to its essence. would become one of the more iluential houses of the modern era. he formed thfirm of gwathm see gull and sociates with robber see gull in 1968. his ler wksnclude the 1992 editi to new york's guggenheim museum and the restoratioand expax of the arand ahitecture buding at yale, hisalma ter. over the years he a -- appearedn this program a number of times. here is a look at somehose nversations. >> where do you put architecture opinions how do you define what an architect does. >> i think architecture as frank lloyd wright said apprriately is the mother art. it's holtic. it affects all our lives both subconsciously a cociously. it is abouthe environment, the man-made environment. d that when you think about it, people who travel

who take lods trips actually gto places t see buildings, experience architecture. so i believets impact upon the conscis and the perseptll parametersf one's existenceis total. so when we talk about why we nt to be an arctect, i think are affecng not only whatoesn today in art,ut what willo on in the future. >> we're goingo see me, a whole series of things that you have ne, some slides. but after pnsylvania hool of architect an univerty of pennsylvania and then yale, in the early '60s,as partf your exa youorked on thi house for your parents who had suequent moved to the northeast on long island. give me a sense of what you re doing there, why that s important to you and the creativeorce that was at work.

>> well, the very lucky t have parents who trusted eir son, t young chitect. and -- >> out of architecture school no more than two or three ars. >> out of architectur school two years. and they wanted to build a use in long island. and it was actually the cond house hi done. hi done a house in fire island before, a very small one. and the opportunity was unique in that to dign it and then try to build it was i very critical point in my fe. i was workg for another architect. i could have gotten involved in t architecture group a the time. and no contrtor would build the use. and easthampton. no one eversaw curve forms raw cedar woo and i td my parents thai would like touild it.

that i tught it was essential. so i quit my job. i got a job tching at pratt instite. and i commuted from new rk to long island literally built thatouse. >> you were the contracto >> i was the general contractor. >>nd you found, at that time sedar wasn't usevery muchor these kind o housesn the outside. >> cedar was the unkwn wood. there was cedar sngles. but there was no cedar boards that were flush and that actually from the distance would loo like form work fo concrete. >> what was the imct of the house? >> mean was it immediately recognized as it was say wi philip johnn's house, that here isomething. >> i don flow if it that impact. >> not only comparbut the notions people saw this and said we forgot mething here. yes, i think it was inantly recognized as a turning int in residential architecture. at this was a n experience. don't think it had much

to do with place, even. even tugh there has always been that discuson, the fact that it was in easthampton whh was an old town that had vernular archecture, i think the impact was universal, in that this was really reductiv abstraction a cubeistic kind of language which restated house. >> without do youhink had influenced most in terms of where your thinking was a a, what, young arctect three years out ofrchitectural school. i mean who had aped your own mind as to what you wanted todo that resulted inhis house? >> i think lou ka as a teher at pennsylvania was extraordinary in that he made you believe that chitecture was the mos spiritual endeavornd experience that u could have. >> why spiritual? >> bause he talke about

fo and he talked about materials as if they were sacred. and is the oy archect -- architect without i have ever en consistently make buildings which ha a sense of quiet. there's a silee about his buildings at when you're ere, it's an absolutely incredible condion that the chitecture makes place. d is unirsal. and the y is the ceiling. and you're in an isolation condition where it spes to you. and he w compellg. >> i tnk -- when i we to school at yale in the '60s, was- he was the eat, he was the great architect. i think since then there is no questnthat piece and lou co a teacher o mine, james erling, the great english architect theris a

sort oflegacy of extensions from -- that have been very influentl for me. anit's not th y, ur deritive or you replicate it. but you definitely understandhe pncipless and understand the ethicnd th's important. >> who influenced you in ur love affair with modernism? >> i think areou aictim of your times. >>eally? >> yeah, i think when i went to school, there w no queson that moder aritecture was- was the ethic. studied -- w studied history but it was always to sort of confi and clarify modernism as an ideal. i think it's gone since then unr sort of very good and very severe criticism and it's come out better for it.

>>etter today. >> much better. >> think that -- >> post modernism wagood or bad. >> post modernism was a tria >> a trial. >> have you ever thought in your life aut abandoning it for some dramati new approach to architecte? haanything ever tempted you? >> no i think it's rely an extension. i thk youeep evaluating and refining. and you eliminate but you grow. i don't think you cagrow without being self-editg and being self-critical. >> tell me howou have grn in terms of that. in terms of how you seehis evolution and we'lsee some pictures in a nute. >> well, it may contradict me >> i know but i want to t you onhe record here. >> i know. >>o, i think you grow whe you are willing risk what you haven't done before. and i tnk each time at leas i try with ese portunities to explorend

toearn something knew. and to very conscious not repeat. that sound simpler than it is, byhe way. i me you do repeat because you have a ctain -- you have a ctain backup tt in aay is irrefutureable. but what you do, i hope s that you, you what is of essence and u keep that. and then you resort of reinvent eh me too discover somethingew. >> looking a this career, beuse you got promince very ely. fi architects with what, 1970 something. >> yes. >> five architects. >> five architectsou. >> richard mr, peter icerman, michael grays and john- all tse feave inant notoriety to all of you, did it.

no, it was great but i think it als eablished for the first te erican a dialoe among architts about architecture and abo ideas. iteally started a new wave of theory and interaction that wast here befor >> what do you think that your either -- what do you thinyou contributed to th dialogue over the years since that time t today in terms of sort of gwathmey, you know principals and sell i knoll ideas. in your owsense what would u like to be your contribution. >> i would like to thi that fromhat book which featured my parent's hou. right that the commitment and the ethic and the loyalty t discovering wha is esstial aut space and

form through architecture s continued and that these buildings that we've built that some day likehe dell house may be a meum. ll be great. and i think, you know, you look atiladio. and heuilt farmhouses. and ey are so perful as images and as forl ructures that there undeable. and i think thinking of use as a building and dealg with all the things one does is there as vble and as crical to the history of arctecture as any other buding. >>o what do they all have. i mean youould more or less. >> me or less they all ha a sense of plac they have a phenomenal density of purpose. and th have a srit actu -- spirituality which is unforgable. in other wds, if you went any of the buildings you rememberhem for your

life. if you never saw them again and you would rememb the experience a you would remember -- remember that time as an aolutely isated transformation. charles gwathmey was a great friend of mine and of this pgram. and r deepsympathy tonight for hi wife tty ann and his family. arles gwathmey, dea at age 71. captioning sponsored by rose communicaons captioneby media acce group at wgbh access.wgbh.org