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tv   Charlie Rose  PBS  August 13, 2009 1:00am-2:00am EDT

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>> rose:elcome to the brdcast. tonight, t college presidents, on botstein of bard college in new york, and sari nusseibeh of alkud university in jerusale >> the risks are, number one, can two very differentin iss work together takin as you said the best of the both? does n look like a trsplant ort looks like, you know, co-cola but in education, in other words, a fixed product which is sold abroad two,can you actually compromise between the very things in such a y that you both feel--
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students willet two degrees. wh they graduate. they'll get a degree from al kud and a dege from bard. it has to meet our expts and al kud expectations. >> i hopeo eveually revolutionize the y teaching is done in t pal community. in the sense that is will inoduce new methods. i ho it will be a model, and successful it will be reicated in other areas, other universities and initutions in the west bank and gaza, and perhaps more widely inhe region. >> rose: we connue with a look the middle east with a man who runs al jazeera network wadah khanfar >> there iaindow of oppounity it start something new,nd they analyze it in order to sense what kindof change that wille refcted on their life, and i must argue here that what hpensin
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washington aects directly the lives of the people there it is not an opinio people iiraq or afghanistan or in pakistan or any other capital the arab world a affected directly by american foreign policy. >> rose: we conclude with peter balkian and a family memoirnd look athe armeania genocide >> the trauma of the armenian genocide of 1915 was bued in my family, and people would celeate him as a bishop in t chch. they never spoke about this extraordiny memoir he wrote, 71 chaer memoir that he wrote. >> rose: a collaboration on edation in the middle east, al zeera and the polits of the middle east, and the aenian genocidehen we continue.
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captning sponsored by rose communications from our sdios in new york city, this is charlie rose >> rose: theres a long history ofamerican-style educaon in thmiddle ea. a new kind parership is adding to that tradition. this fall, bard college in upstate newark nework and al quds uversitywill launch a degree between palestinnian and american institution. the goal is to combin the best of the two-- u.s. and pastinnian education stem. joining me is bar colle
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president leon bstein. he is the directorf the american symphony chestra. and sari nusseibeh. he is the president of quds university, a ofessor of islamic philosoph i should mtion a book now no paperback which got lots of attention en the hd cover came o called, "once upon a country. a palestinnian life. of it's eat to meet you. >> thank you. >> rose: i've known him for a while. bra whatbrought thisogether? whose idea? what was the eectation? >> well, i think among other things, have beenor six seass the music director of the radio orchestra of israel in z-- gere lem, and i find-- through mutual friends i learned that al qudswas interested in deloping partnerships. this mutual friend, david harm an putsarah andyself together, and someho it exploded into a tee-part
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program which w this joint degree program for undergraduates. a teacher tining program wch will ope this fall for palestinnian higschool teachers, d a mel high school which we will build together with quds. >> ros what will it do? >> wl, i hope it ll evtually to revolutionize the way teaching is done i the palestinni community in the sense that it will introduce new methods. i hope it will be a model, and if successful, it will be replicated in her areas, other universies, oer institutions in the u.s., we bank, and gaza and perhs more wely in the region now, the consistration-- our focus at the momentis on the nor college. >>ose: right. and that's the liberal arts program. and 's totally different from the kind of approach adopt in the arab world where the focus is more on prossionalism. someone earlietold me today
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th in the wor ofn ex-preside it is what is called grim professionalism. >> rose: bart jiamarti. >> probly. >> wt you have here is to awax again the interest in education and culture aay of riching the souls,nriching society. >> rose: when you think lae, what do u hope accomplishes? >>to transform society, transform the way people live, and hopefully t create peace in e region. >> ros and to suggest that the is common ground and there's more tbe worked for an worked agast. >> absolutely. not onlyith the united states and with the western world t also in the region. and it's ver important in fac to create torance pluralism, the ability to lten to the other, and this can be done through this kind education. so i thin it will go aong way. >>ose: is this a friendsp? >>h, yes.
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it was relatively immediate. you know, at our age, is not clear yocan make newriends. i'm aittle skeptil about it. we carry the old ones with us. but in this se, it was a spontaneous desire-- sari put it ve eloquently-- is is troubled aa. no one nee reminding of it. but the people, whe you get away from the governments, you see when youe there frequently on the israeli sid, as well as e palestiian side, people really want a noal life. ey want to live in tolerance. they want to change the inability to underand the other person's point of view d we as americans need to help in that. d, therefore, i'm veryleased by t shift in the american admistration. which now actually is trying pl a real role to seethat something happens. but if you can't-- rose: and how are they dng th? you mean in terms of the speech in cai?
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in terms of rching outacross the spectrum of israeli and arab and islami tradition ewroo ally putting real pressure o all thparties to tr to come some resolution. the fact is-- and we are educats or artists or intellectuals-- however you nt to call it-- and if we can't build a mmon ground in a younger generati, then there's hope. so this program comes at a rrific time. a very important part of it i the teaching teaer traing piece as well ashe honor scholars so you eventually create an educatial system. you know jefferson and adams believed that the educational system of the unit states would be the bedrock of amerin democracy. so when we talk about creatin a world we'dike to see, the edational system has a lot to do with it. >> rose: in what way? >> i think, first, theres the whole qution of the inllectual tradition which has a huge debt to the arac and islamic hitage.
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so you're talkin about a lo, ltigenerational history of argument, edence, where you can candidly dcover that yr positi isrong or flawed. you can hear the other person's positi and the profsionalism what sari cls grim professionalism,utside the ropean system of higher educion, is highly specialized. peop come out of secondary school and the go into a field of study. often leads to a profession. even in the profession they don't len to talk across lines the economist doesn't tal to biologis, and the sociologt don't talk to the person in literature. so you don't create-- en thgh you have a univeity educion, it's very narrowly-- rt of a narr building. and the leralarts tdition, its best expression allows people it talk across. woe as citizens, for example, can make intelligent decisions about reign policy orcience
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search. but if y don't have an education, you don't know what st cell is, you can'tind dascus on the map, you can't find iran on theap,ost ericans are probabl confused about difference betwe iran and iq. >> rose: i is also noteworthy of suggesting at all kinds o efforts for american instituti to take root-- there is also this it's notion that aot of the most radical islamic fundamentalism found bir for thyoung people in certain edation-- certain educational initutions. d certain education thoughts ye >> absutely. i mean, education is t nessary means through which a person grows. you have to develop your eas as you grow, and velop your personity or identityor positions, your principles your
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values, and mostly this is done through educatio educion is a necessary kind of bridge you have to pass. d bridges can be built differently. onfrom the other, a in some instances, they can built so at you are made to develop into a robot, into a vy closed in person, a person at nnot see outside of themselve i mean, to go backo something that-- >> rose: i you could change, that you cod change-- >> you cou change theorld. >> rose:ou could change the world. >> you cld change theworld. and i think thiss the exact moment in time when infact this kind of thingeeds to beone with tew administrion in the united states. >> rose: ishis a win-win or is there some risk here? >> there's a lot o risk. you mentned the emrat i'm a little cynical. the emirates dre a lotf american institutionto put affiliates of theiown there and there was a lot of money. i make the analogy, imagine america after the second world
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war defining marshal plan by investg in monco. >> rose: it's no only about education but museums a other institutions. yes. this is a real coeration. so you have10,000-strong university on the west bk, a major palestinnian instution. and its president has e courage to d a collaration, which is a partnship, and so thrisks are, number one, can two very different system work together to create taking, a you sa, the best of both? so it doesn't lo like a ansplant or it looks ke, you know, coca-cola b in educatio in other words, a fixed product which is sold abroa. two, can you actually compromise between the very things i such a way that you both feel-- the students wilget two drees. when they graduate, they'llet a degree from alquds and a
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degreerom bard. so it has to mee our expectatns and al quds' expectations. we have to workt out. the teachers tt are trained ll be trained by us and by their faculty in a collaborative way so they enter a palestinnian high school. they won't tea in the united states. so this nd of work is very-- is ris because you really don't know how it's going to emerge. d-- but itas real roots. it's not simply an outpt. it's not a hotel chain where you built another hotel in a pce, but en you go inside it lobbies just le every hotel you have been of the se name. >> and the purposes not financial ga and i thinkhat one of the mai differences, peaps, between this particular inittive we'reoing together, and the instanc that you mention. where one assumes the in rpose is to make ney from the studentsrought into tse
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universities. and also, again, it's not a profesonal degree we're trying provide. it's not medicine or engineer or what have you. it a liberal arducation. it has to with the minds, with theperson and hopefully to do witthe edution system-- >> to build citizenship. >> and mocracy. if language is-- presumly democracy is an instment of decracy,ithout education the use of language beces an emptshell. >> rose: ts reminds me-- a tell me where e analogy fails-- between sitting at this table, danie bernbalm, like you a conductor,nd edward said, like you, an intellectua and cultural historian and yet, their friendship transcend eir differences over politics. do you have differences about the politics of theregion?
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we hav't discussed that. >> we haven't real discussed it? not a lot. >> not in depth. >> not in depth, no. >> rose: i'm surprisedy that because yo, who i know better, are by definitn in life, as a university presint, as a musici, curious to what you ca learn and how to tesyour idea and pecially when you have someone who comes from a dramically different experience. >> but let me-- >> rose: correc something. >> no, no. firsof all, daniel barrenbalm is israeli, i am not. i work for israeli, so i am a foreigner. >> re: that is a differen. >> number one. numb two, the inttion i respect atever politic differces might exist i dot have to have a frndship because we agree. the strange thing id, you who knew-- rose: you wouldn't have a friendship because you agree but you can have friendship if you
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disagreeecause friendships should transcend-- this is somedy who writes books that get wily read and revwed, "once upon a country-- a palestinni life." >> let's tes it right here. i would s-- i'm guessing i don't kn-- i belie in a two-state solution. i'm a believer thahe palestinnian people need a able state of their own >> rose: right. >> and i'm not in far of a one-state solution whi is many ople argue. so that's-- i believe tha democry in the jewh state can be reconciled. i would be called a left wing zionist. but i think the israeli government has me a big mistake in not actually create aghelping to create and furthering the creatn of a viab, vibrant-- >> rose: i'llmake it ea. also believehat the israelis ould stopnhancing settlements. >> absolutely. >> rose: and you believe the israelis should recognize hamas
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>> i'm in the a tactician. i don't give advice where i don't know anythin but i certainly think whatever required tocreate peace between thestwo neighbors who are more alike than different, by the way is a good thg. we've ver diussed this. >> i know more or les what he stands for. rose: but he ha't heard-- >> no, n, hee what my views are, and m views are very strahtforward, very simple. am for the two-state solution. >> rose: tell me what you think-- this is at the obama speech was about. >> this is what th obama spee was about. we are hopingery much he will-- >> rose: two question fit of all, whats it that you thk has to happen to see the reality o a palestinnian state, which i- a two-stat sotion? >> well, what's the. -- simp fut-- put, i think
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obama, with the lp of the people that are woing with him at have been working on some for some years, sevel years now, should put together a two-ate solution or two-state plan. lchb he should come to the middle east with this plan in hand, call for a meeting with the israeli and pestinnian leaders, and place thisplan before them on the table. and then he suld not a them discuss this plan or to negotiatover it, and he should not ask them whether th agree with it or not. he should ask them a sime question or ask of them a sime seice which is for eachof them to take this pl,o to their respectt communities, to the people,and test it democratally. now, this a kind of request that cannot be turned down because supposly the two leaders...his is a means by which to overcome any possible
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bureaucratic hiccups in the beginning, and ts can b p to theest inommunities. now, on the raeli side i think a referendum woul be good, good enough. on the palesnnian side i believe an electoral pross would be good, to happen in a few months, perio, on th ndition that the results on both sides should come out the same day. and on condition secondly, in my opinion, that the question should be put in the following wa would you accept such and such, two-sta solution, if the other side were to accept it it shouldn't be, "do you wt a tw-state sotion?" but "would you accept it ifhe other side suggest it. i believe personally if this were to happen or something lik it and the people were tobecome involved in the procesike this, and if the international
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community, led by obama, shld al make arguments to the effect they can be more invold in case pee comes about, less involved if peace does not co abou my view on both sides there will be a majority favoring such solution. >> re: everybody knows what the solution should be. >> thereou go. >> re: the geneva koorld, in part, dated between palestinniansnd there is the arab initiative which reflects-- there is, sblly-- the question is, you know, the best way to achieve that would to make re-- then-- >>he israelis have done so much negotiation i think there's nothing between them that has not bee discussed. the tiniest details haveeen looked at, considere, and i think-- >> rose: they've gone orch evy inch of th contested territory. >> they have gone orch every
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ch of consted territori. ere are sll some disagreements left, and is is where i tnk obama's flirbtive coulsolvehis. >> rose:o you believe, and leon as well, thatbama, because hes the president of the united states, becse he reflected inhat speech in cao reaching out across t boundaes of all kinds of ssibilities. has the rl possibility o making this happen? i believe. mean, i believe even before that. i mean, he's that kind of person. the kind of pson who wouldor could make this kindf thing lap,ho would think outside of the box which youeed to think in terms of if you want to get sothing done. you know, we've been negotiating the last 3, 40 yes. if we have me negotiations,
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moref the same, nothing isin if to hpen. so something h to be done tside the ordinary. >> rose: on that i say good-bye. >> rose: wadah khanfar ishe director general of the aljaez including jazeera english, as wells sports and documentary channels it was establish in 199 and was consider the first dependent new station in the middleast. after the atcks of september , al jaera's broadcast of osambin laden's statemts broughtit controversy. during the iraqiorld the u. iticized its coverage too violent. here ia look at wt they do. >>his is al jazea.
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welcome to t al jazra wshour. i'm darren jord from our new cents here ndon and washington, d.c. these e the top stori. >> the topstory from the americ, the search for survivors. pes fade for any more sind of life after the sinking of ran overloaded miant boat. we'll have the latest from the caribbean. >> in london, the main ne from yurng including massive bomb blasts in spain. 46 pple are injured.
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rose: i pleased have wadah khanfar he at this table for e first timeo talk about al jazeera. but fit about h. first of all, welcome. tell me how you got to the place aryou and what you're trying to do in this visit to washington and new york. >> a corresponde in africa, south afca, iraq,afghanistan, i vered the war in iraq. ibecame the execive director ofhe al jazeera arab. my visit he actually to new rk is to reach out to the media communit, speaking to. to diver a speech on couil foreign relaons, and my others as well. i' reaching out to-
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>> rose: trying to that? >> i think al jazeera-- we were acsed of accusations regding our coverage-- a i think it's very impornt to interact with people, wheby all questions regarding jazeera could be nsidered and we could extend e han of coopetion with many. >> rose: why did t government of the-- the emir ofutter want to see this done? and wh was the purpose? >> in 19 nirks the arab wld did not have-- it was propagda. the early journalists who found al jazeera ce from bbc, a the state goverent cutterffered them space to operate from with derstanding
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regarding the relaonship. so al jazeera is not speaking on behalf o cutter, but they are operatinfrom cutter with the full supportf the government of cutter. that was t initial court. why did cutter do it? they did i because al jazee, looking ba, has given them a atus, a good name. they would not try t use al zeera as a platform or as a pool. >> rose: does it have influence on al jaera. >> our newsroo is run inpendently boyan editoal board that'sonsists of senr jonalists who found al jazeera and still guard theditorial. >> rose: y criticize the governnt if you think the government is committing error. >>ike any other government in theegion. >> ros nothing is differt from the wra you treat cutter and the other governments.
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>> if we do, our audienc will pick up on that. >> rose: how was the osama bin laden liny? >> aft early septeer, we had e only buru operatingn afanistan frokabul. and, therefore, the fifth inteiew was done by an al jazeera rrespondent in afghanistan. >> rose: how long afr 9/11? >> it was just a few weeks before 911. we did wh anyther network in the world would d from fegzally will be. when we found the interview w t as proficient as we would like it to b, we d not put it air because we thought for-- that osamain laden and his aides dictat certain questions in our tonight,nd they do in
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the allow him freely to discuss other tters. now, later on, oma bin laden will sen some tapes tol jaerz and to maybe prg netwks in the regionnd they took the newsworthy you knows from i what any othe wit nit would do. it rises from the fact tt they want us not to protest. we thought putting casting sig ments. we will put it in perspecti. will put it in y context ther than prop gaith the message. this is the professiol thing do, and, therefe, we refuse to stopbroadcasting message of course i'talking here about a few tapes. i'm notalking about the daily
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message. in years maybe you will have12 or 13essages ofhe last year. >> rose: and howdo youreceive them jothey dede how to send themo us. stipz we may recee a tape through mailbox,and sometime we might see it in islamabad where someone drove it inside a. woe don't communicate with them in oer to receive. >> re: so al jazeera today, the impression of the uted states goverent, and certainly i think the mitaryeadership, the american military leadership and others is that there is-- w do you put this in a way that's most informative-- that you sh thingshat incite violen, in contrast not prohibitinany otheride.
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>> yeah. >> rose: there no positive rtrayal of american experienc in iraq at all is the arment. >> this is ufrlg, what has en sa will be. >> rose: i' hed other miliry officials say it. formerecretary-- >> ...e most professional network in dealing wit the iraqi war and afghanista war. we have shown all angles of the story. i myself was a correspondent o of coed thwar in iraq. and i was with a tm. with the nthern territories, the kurdish territories. and i hadolleagues embedded with the americans,colleagues embed with the. woe cover it fr all angs. wehat we have been asked to do at that moment in time is to rally behind themerican
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adnistration on this rticular war which we-- w thoughtt is fair that the american view would be presented through ieferings, analysis, and every major briefing. everythi was carried live on jazeera, tnslated to arab. but also, at the same time, we have other voices in the arab world, as you know, the streets of the araborld was not very happy with this war. >>ose: the argument your collection of sties is conceived d structured to present the americans in the le-favorable light, and portraying all ofhe most negative things. that's the idea. >> the problemf some milary and some politicia as well, that we-- not that we did not
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prent them in a good way. they wante us to continue to present them ia good way. when we are coverg the war there is very ugly face for the war. the are civilians who have been killed. when we showed the images of the civilians, we were criticed avily by those in washington because workplac inciting violence in the region b that was a story happening in front of us, in front ofour camera. could we hide these images so woe can- >> rose: which image are you talkg about? >> i'm speaking of the civilians o were killed. thatas denied by the militar spokesperson. while we are showing images from the hospital in falluh, he saidre you forming these images. >> rose: you cod make the argument in fact coveragef civilian casualties in afghanistan today, a thing that'seen very conceing to the military'sleadershipin
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afghanisn, if you didn't portray that then u would not besebingourournalistic responsibity because civilia casualties infghanistan are a huge pt of the dialogue now, souch so that geral mcchrystal has sd we will tak fferent action to eliminate and reduce the mber of civilian casuals. but you believthis is an issue for al-jazeera anot in rms of the reity buthe misperceion and you are here in order tohange that perception in part. >> after president obama's speech in cairo-- >> rose: which a jazeera covered in full when he made the spee live. >> ocourse. we had discussion, little tal shows--. >> rose: what was the impactf that both the speech and the convsationing if thepeech? >> i think, first of all, t environment creat after the eech was great. the feeling that the speech it
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s was structed very positive way. before therab world was asked to take side-- either with us or against us w we have someone with open diussion and debate that was very pitive. course people would say give the man in some time because the issues are very kplibhed. we will give hi some te in orr to show wt extentthis etoric that we heawill be implemented on the ground. >> re: but it does seem-- according what my frids in the region say to me-- is that it showed on the part this administraon an understanding of arab politic, arab culture slim polics, that they h not heard before. and that that gavpeople-- and
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that he became a popular fure. >> he sindeed. obama say very pular leader >> rose: and what opportunitie does that give him, your judgment, a former journalist? >> it gives him an opportunity of taking away the negative percepon that was generated during the last eig years. it ges him afresh start. it gives himn opportunityo start without prejice from the arab mind. i think there is a window of portunity to start something new. and this i why pple are receiving evy signal from waington and alyze it in order to fin and sense wt kind o change will b reflecte on the life. d i must argue here, whoopz in washington reflects directlon the lives of the people there. it it is not justan opinion. peoplen iraq or afghanistan or in lestine or in a other pital in the arab world, are affected directl by american foreign pocy.
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directly, each and every one o usill be affected boy it. so it is verymportant and ucial for them analyze it, to understand. but the atmosphere is posive. it is not negative. we are not skeptical about what is happening. i think the general public very hopul. we never had that opportunity before. before pple used to have negative onion or perceion before even they see the action because fay formed so perception about t discourse that the previous administration used to deliver. >> rose:ell me youopinion of the taban. >> you know, talibanmerges- the result of ma ftors. has closed and very stro association th... i would y that the talan. -- t major mistake of t taliban wiin the government of afghanista they staed interfering in the individl right of the human being.
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you know, th wanted toictate certain inions on the people and dictate certain types of behavior. i have covered afghanistan immediately after the collap of the taliban regime, and i have seen people who are saying we don't want anyone toell us to pray. if i wouldike to, i will pray on my. ow the ro of government andhe separationetween individual relaonship with hisguard or with his religion-- >> rose: howanyard-hitting piec has al jazeera done out the taliban, including how ey treat women anthe-- and all thexamples of their attitude about women and the choic they have made in terms of. their gernance. >>ou know,e have do all of that. and actually, our relationip with the taliban existed inside was not theest relationship. we had a l of trouble
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>> rose: were you sensored. >> of cose. taliban was no very friendly to e images, e tv in general. they will noteal with our correspondt or our payroll friendly so setimes appr in mean interviews. however, thessue of women, for example, we have dealt withit from different angles becse, also, there s another argument there that this is a rlection on the. culture itself. it is not the taliban tha insisted on itnly. it cares this kind of value and tradition and chae it... fo socialchange rather than just, you know, issue a claration of sendingheir daughters to school. >> rose: here is tomriedman, july 26. thsame day present obama spoke to the muslim world from cairo university, osa bin lan released a long statent on his islamic web site and on al jazeera as the yptian
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middle eaern expt noted, ama beat osaa hands down. ask the content of oma's speechand they will tl you, d what osamma sd and many wi say, "did he give a eech?" >> prior to obama's speech, one night orwo night before the speech, and his argumentwas that whatever obama is going to sa will deceive you becau look at what has been happeng-- len and what happing in afghanistan? really there wilbe a change we will see how that willbe reflected on theillingf civilians. that was his message. however, obama's spch, which in my opinion concentrated on ve go facrs, the scheduling of withdrawalfrom iraq, where he-- was something
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solid that we have sn naepg front of o lives. his general attitude-- andas you said,ssues related to arab cuure-- >> rose: h didn't use the word "terrorism," either. >> he did not use the word "terrorism". he reached ou everyone. >> rose: how did you cover the iranian ections? >> maybe bigger than any network. we had five crews covering in from vario cities, e major cities, live on here. that continued until t electis came out and the iranns decided not to allow correspondents, so we were asked to leave lik many oers, and weleft. only our crew tha is in the
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office, we have a permant bureau, of course, ande have iranians working there. of course the restrtions on al jazeera upon similar to restrictions on oers. >> rose: te me wh you think the that is taking place i iran is? >> with envy we watch the ft thatranian people could march in the street and eress their opinion because 19 otherrab governments weay not have that luxury when we feel the elecon have been rigd. that has been ppening right now. i think iranians will be able to control the situatn. they will beble to deal with it. that the elot wl start getti gether. if at that happens migh
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reduce the tension on t street >> rose: tell mehere you sta request al jazra in engli. al jazeera english s launched 10 years o, it has its own prioty. we sre rources. we have 6 bureaus all over the world so wshare stors metimes but theriorities are dened, and determined by the -- alazeera english now is reacng out to areas thataybe others did not in africa, asian we are the best in covering these-- and we thought the southas. rose: thank you for coming. a pleasure.
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>>ose: peter balkian re. his great uncle wasne of the leading armenian intellectua of his geration. in april of 1915 he was arrested along with50 otr leaders of konstantin open's community. he wrote a memoir offering his eyewitness account of the genoci. peter balkianirst learned of the memoir in 1991. now after a 10-year translation project, the book s been publishein english for t first time. i am pleased t have peter balkian ba at this tab. welcome. >> thankou, charlie. od to be here. >> rose: ni to see you. >> great to be here. >> rose: the finding of the memoir. how did that happ in 1991? >> strange set of circumstances. i receiv a magazine article from a frids cut t of mazine in france where a commemorate ceremony hadust taken place in honor of my great-uncle, a my frid wrote
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in the mgin, "yelation?" and ofourse i kne who it was. boht he was an honored gst in o family. people tked about him with reverence-- >> rose: bu they didn't talk about wh he had seen in the family. >> thais the complexit the traum aft armenian genocide of 1915as buriedn my family, and people would celebrate h as a bishop in t church. theyever spoke about this extraordinary moir that he wrorkt 71-apter memoir that he wre. >> rose: it to you 10 yea- how long idit take, from ' to 2001. >> first hito get a book in armenian. the was a copy in the middle east >> rose: frombeirut? yes, it cam from beirut. and then i had to find a collorative translator to work with, and i s working on other books. itas a complicated process, and all all, 10 years wk
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hd memoir, but reall almost 20 from th discovery of this lost book, this great lost memoir. >> rose: it isany stories. it is the story of h he did it. just the journey of ts man. it's also a documentatio of an event in histo. and it's als the political story of the denial. >> aolutely. ... very mucthis book brings together these layers. i think there's no doubtin the minds of scholars of ts history at this is the most comprehensive and complex memoir of th armenian genocide. firsit hassome panorama. it gips in berlin on the eve of the world wa i. d he's observinghe outeak of the war with very fine eye as an ouider, and he's
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contextuizing the armenian genocide through setting up the war. then we movecross europe to constantinople and follow him on the night of his aest of april 24, 1915, along with the oer 25 armanan culturaleaders, and en you're going too on this journey nor and westo this prison, 200 milesway, and then y're going to facility him south into theenter of turkey. into t mountains. and you'rewitnessing all the way atrocities and the destruction of the civilizion. you know, the destction of the buildings, the schools, which rafael lambkin noted as the destruction peoe's culture. you're licensing all of ts, and at the same timee is a rrific listener. so you're not only gettinghis voice but you're getting all the people he' listening to.
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and these are armenian survivors of course, from lite children who findthemselvesalive in a midst a poi of corpses, a walk away an find some priest wandering in tse, you know, horrif land scapes you're getting those voic but you're also getting theoices of turks, of turkish perpetrators, li one ptain of the turkh police and a certn crucial part of e deportation oppose up photo-- >> rose: he thinks he's going on his way tow his death? >> absolutely. there's no way he could be as cand as he was in that intervw without feeli this man will be dead ando one will know what i'm saying to him. and you geterman engineers o are working on therailway, and you're hearing their bystand witness.
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i wod say they're rather detached vieof the massacres and the atrocities. and their voices are very valuable. u're also hearing rigeous turks, turk. >> governors and mid-lel administtors andureaucrats are appalled at the orders they're receivg from the governnt head, and actuay, are trying to warn the armenns in any way they can. all of the voices in mmind created memoir of what cal a pophonic kind of acouic. >> rose:some people who read this fnd themselves, how can i read another pag of ts? how i can read. >> killing in the armenian genocideas done so much by hand, so much by gruese implements-- tannery tools, farm tools, hoes, rakes knives, axes. there a lot ofgore in this
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story, and yet the story is so remarkable in s olution that i'm finding peop are saying, "i can't stop reading," eve thou i would think the atrocity would deter plea in some w, i want to keep finding out how hesurvives and i want tonderstand more deeply h the structure of t armenian genode happed. >> rose: some speculat hitle kn about the armenian genocide and, therefore, was one of the thingshat influced what he did. >> i think one of theost important links betwn the armenian genocide and the nazi genocide of the yew jews of-- can be found in hitr's statement >> re: eight daysefore he invaded pola. >> of the annihilation of t armenians. >> rose: see we can do whatever we want to. >> we can do whater he want to
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and history gets rgotten. who toda remembers? ermenian gecide was the most covered inrnational human rights disasteof the second deca of the 20th searchr by the late 1930shitler saw it disappeared do the memory hall. >> rose: tell meis storynd what hapned and how he was able to survive? well, he wa arrested, of course, with his notab band of 250-- intellectual and cultural leaders. and this night of april 24, the ght that armenians commemorate now, the american genoci worldwide. there no question this was anned by the centerville government >> absoluty none, no. you can see that there are systematic arrests hapning throughouturkey from the ddle of aprilf 1915 on throughout the smer of 1915.
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village by villa, city by city town by town. you have there you keen of the crown cryer orderinghe aens to a ceral square. you have the deportation margins being set up with therovincial lice, and theyou have the ordeng of killing squads and th is coming from the central committee, a th killg squads were administered by something called th specia orgazation. they let out some 3000 prisonersrom jails, and organized them into killing bands. and it was pretty innovative idea. again, i think tha in som ways this can eve foreshado it's nazies had the killing squads in the riod before theamps became t focus of mass
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killg. >> rose: were one million people killed in a year? >> i think a million people were kied between1915 and the spring of 1916, and another 200,000 ma kered in the syan deserts of 16 i we know b the end the summerf 191, we have at least 1.2 millioneople murdered, and it's two-thirds of the armenian population of turkey living on thr historic homelands. >> rose: what role it it play in turkish politic >> well, the armenian sen is it side todayas become an almt obsessive issue fo the turkish government i mean, they are spending millions of llars a year engiering campaigns of propaganda to deny, to undermine to sitize,o try recruit
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mystery. and it has become a lightning rod inside of turkey because pele who want to speak truthfully about the sfpbts events of 1915 often find themselves a greatisk. he mentioned th word "over a million", the phrase, "er a million." this was seen razz a crime against the turkish stat >> r osei'm stug stuck o th spot, it beces in some ways, part of thpolitical dimensn as hurky reaches out to play an increing role in the coined of new world ord.
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wants to be a bridge betwe the western world anthe muslim rld. >> i thinkhat the aenian nocide remains a linchp for turkey's modernization becau 's an event that the turkish governmentrefuses to acknowledge honestly, and i think of whapresident obama id in the turkish parliament in april, very sandedly and i thinkery riskly, vy edgy to the turker leadership which he says a unresolved hisry will become a burden t complicated to wear. you must dole withour past and honest lie. and he was referring to the events of1915 and the experiment stationf the armenians. ani think he said it per accept thely, an-- it will
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hinter turk's efforts become that lear, becomehatridge between east a west join the eu becse human rights remains one of tha country's immedia problems. i see the very much. this is about dealing with minority populatio and dealing with eality and democracy, and until you can acknowled your past properly, it's hardo go forward. >> ros thank you for comin. >> tnks for having m. good to be ba with you. " trsplanted by peter balkian. thank you for joining us. seyou next time.
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