charlie: welcome to the broadcast tonight. the president of egypt hosni mubarak on the eve of his trip to washington t first since 2004. tomorr he meets with president obamat the whitehouse. >> the feeling was there was great and extreme bi again the regious admintration and th created grea concerns among the muslims, particularly the leaders o muslim countries. t with the obamapeech it became clearthat he's not, that america is not against this. if you complain ofhe

intervtions of the forces in iran, i would say to you, don interfere with the hom affrs of other arab countes. like lebanon, like hamas and others. nce you complainof this external or foign interfence, so don't do it wi other countries. we are very keen. there should sbility and no stability unless weave the -- and with asst also. meeting with theuthority, with e israeli government. >> charlie: the president o egt hosni mubarak and all about the mdle east coming up.

captioning sponsor by rose comnications >> charlie: ware in cairo, ingypt for a conversation with the president of ept, hosni mubarak. is my ninth interview with him. he is on the eve of a visit to washington to et with president obama and vice president biden to talk abo the middle east and other issues. it is his first tri to washinon since 2004. i am pleased to haveim back on thisrogram for aonversation about the rion, about the

issues he sees,bout his rul here in egypt for8 years. mr. president, thank you >> thank you. >> charlie: i come to cairo and all of the talk i about you. ey say is he okay, is he healthy, doe he fe good. they say he experienced tragedy. theyay is he gog to run again. would thise the last term for president barak. yo say? >> i'm not looking for, if i'm gointo renew another term or something likthis. i'm busy. still i have two yes. i have the problems that came

withlections. now i'm trying to run again or not run agn. my effort is toomplete the program for the pple and i made the program you kw in the campaign. and l the ims that e presidt wants. is is my main concern. not to renew or not to renew. i'm not thinkingbout that now. >> charlie: whenill you decide? >> i would like ask a question. when can you decide when the prident is now? you n? you can. we have to see. charlie: but they have books now called egypt after

mubarak. books. it is a largeountrynd we have sbility here. enjoy stability. we have a perment constution. it has been amended for a numbe of times. i recall that once you asked me inne o your interews, is that the president being elected only by th parliament mns me sort of incomplet democracy. at the sammoment,hat momen i was ready topropose amendments to the constitutn an wamended 3 article tt was unprecented. this is in the interest o ability, inhe interest of

insuring peoplabout future. it i not small couny on which we take decisions juslike that. it is a stable coury and it will rema a stable one after mubarak and afr the man who comes after mubarak. >> charlie: speing of that, there are thoseho believe that uould like forour son gamal tcome after you. >> this was never rais between my son and myself. hestarted hisareer in banking th bank o america in london and th he tned to egypt. and he was against joining the partyand it was ly after a longffort that he jned the rty. it is not on my mind t have my

son inherit me. and as well, choice election of e president is ope to the population in s entirety. it is the decision the population to elect who would represent people. it is not for me to decide that. it is the decision of the people elect the person who they trust. who would that pson be? well we have a long time we he still two years to come. charlie: doyou think he's ready to be president? >> iill ask him or youan ask him. don'tsk me. >> charlie: youill not dissolve parliament. you will not dissve parliament

any time soon. >> tre are many rumors. charlie: yes, that's why i ask. >> andhere is freedom o speech. people say that the pairment this -- parliamt, this or that except once a decision by the supreme constitution of the court and the more good opposition you have, the better, the moretrong, the stronger our members would be. but rumors are there. somebody may say befo, sobody may say maysay after.

i hear these rumors ke any other person. >> charlie: but then wh n't you simply say i will not dissve parliament? >> i can't say that i wl not dissolve the parlment. ther might be som circumstances. i don't have any athe moment but there might be some circumstance that call forhe dissolutioof the parliament. but at the moment there is no single point that merits the dissolion of e parliament. the dissolion of the parliament becomes imperative only when there i addressing demand. >> charlie: . president, thiseekend you go to washington. you will bthere mondaynd tuesy, you will meetith the president and the vi president. character-wise, ere the relationship is with the united stes, today der president

oba. >>fter the eleions and after winning the elections ntacted me and that took place twice. when he went to the whitehous he contacted me. and en he came to diver h speech from cairo her it was an excellen speech that enshould, assured the arab and muslim countries a people and it was alear and loud message to all arab and muslim countries. beforehat, there wasomeort of unease and conce out the leader'sdministration. but ilso met himn rome

dung the g-15 meeting. it was no a long time to talk bu when he visited cairo, we coved all the issues and how to handle e same. and i did find him and understandg man who wants to lien and to take informed cisions. and he's opened tw opinions. i advised him to listen to everybody anafter that u will make a fulpicture about which u can take informed decisions. and i'm ver optimistic on the steps to be taken by president obama. he well balanced in all his speeches and addresse partularly within the context

of violenc particularly in arab and iraqthe concerns in the ab and muslim countes. once again, i think the oba cairopeech wasn excellent piece of work >> charlie: it cated new opportunies? >> do u mean new opportunitie at peace, yes. >> chaie: what did it accomplish, the spch? >> you know of course the sech and you listened to, it assured the slim world because before that the feeling was that tre was a great and extreme bias against the muslim peopley the leader's admistration. an that created great ccerns among the muslims, rticularly the leaders ofthe countri.

butith the obama speech, it became clear thate is not ainst islam, that america is not against islam. this is quite important. so mh so that -- wted to confer t doctorate to obama but the time was so shorthat he coun't do that in time. >> charlie: ere is always time do y sense that he is about to launch his initiave for the middle east? >> preside obama is colcting inrmation and he sent georg mitchell number oftimes an conferd with us during each time we explained our position and each time he ces to cairo.

hevisited syria, he vited saudi abia, other countries. and this is to grasp the issues whichis a good thing. it's mu beer than takin a decisionwithout listing t the country'soncern. itight damage these couries, itight as wel damage the retation of and image the ited stas. andhis is what happened. the was the decision to goo iraq. and that spite the fact there was no mass destruction apons. d goingo afghanistan as well. russia stayed eight years in afghanistan. however, russia did not achieve ything and the russians

admitted that fact. there was a ntleman from the russian position came me and id they stayed with all kinds weapons f eight years in afghanistan without achieving a thin so, so, and wait until we see what e americanschieve. and i often repeated that t the u.s. administration was adamant on something decided apriory. >> crlie: do you think that they should get out of afghanistan. >> if i canay t following. iraq, there is a grai of stabily but that will take time. the situation in iraq is not an

easyne and told everybody. when mr. bush sd that i would invite democracy into iraq, i said i wish you could do. every population has its own nature culture, cuoms and histy. you can not comend make som carbon cop of each populati as that of the american ople. even the country and thepeoples in this region are differt. >> charlie: mimpression was you re never comfortable with thbush administratio >> that's why iid not visit the united states nce the year 2004. i didn't visit the united states since 04. the are cerin rumors that i amot visiting america or i was

no visiting ameri because of ises related to political. >> charlie: do you think e bush admistration was right to promote mocracy in the regn in the way that it did. >> n look, we do n acct pressures in politics or in theory, domestic politicsrom any administration wit respect to allovernments. we d not aept pssures -- form haso be me grown. an it is what the people demand. this is one issue. but to accept pressure from an administration or another, this pressure mig be againsthe inrest of the peoe. responded to the demands o

the people. >> charlie: do yobelieve esident obama has a different attitu and idea publicly about democracy a refor than president bush. has he said so to you? >> i can't sayxactly that. but i think that president obama understands well what was done by the previous administtion. democracy is tre inegypt. we havefreedoms at were not there bore. we have an election of the prident, we have freedom of the press,eave about 600 dailies and weeklies that was taken. andthe pow of the parliament

toeven do away wit the government. we are doing refor based on the demands of the people and i think presidt obama does understand this ry well. >> charl: it is said that he will not pubcly discuss man rights. he ds not want it to be an issue but th he will bring it up in private. >> look, please. human rights is iediately a political one. human rights are not only political,ou have social ghts, you have the right to alth, you he t right to job, the are manother rights. and we are doing well on these fronts. but wt we are notbsolutely

perfect d nobody'serfect. we hav human rigs commission, we have supervision of that. and he she that wod not abide by law is brought to the book before a court of law. we hava strong supervision on the administrave side, administrative servision and therhave been many sentences against pele who have breached human rights. it is not immedialy a concept, it is social and it is as one. >> charlie: much is written about the fact that in the election, the mt -- the last election inhich there was more candidates, thatince then you have moved away and that you have crack down on thmuslim

brotherhoo >> let somebod read the egyptian constitution to you a the amendmentswe have introduc therein. ese people who i'm talking about cannotorm that pitical rty. cause our constitution maintains and spulates tt a political body sha never be sed on a religious basis. they cannot form that and ts is partandarcel of the constitution as amended byhe people. but theuslim brotherhood a there individuals, mp's, we have about 80 of them. >> charlie: d you fear the

muslim brotherhood? do you worry that they are close to hamas, theyare ose to her islamic ... i know that they have som contts with them. they have contts with hamas. they have contac with hezbollah. these are well-kwn andhey have contacts with many organizations. they have contac with international group based in geneva but we can't conin this. >> charlie you're not worried. we do not fear such things >> charlie: the main subject between you and present obama wi be peace in the middle east. israel andalestine.

tell me wherehats. tell me what egypt's role is. your own gener has mewith hamas,ith kata, he's me with israel. have y mad major progress. >> we share boundaries with palestians, we share boundaries withordan, shares boundaries with the west bank. the stabity of this part of the world needs the stability of the ab region. but failing toolve this issue with the ability of the globe. we are ting to solve the problem between hamas and the authorities in e west bank because this is ite important. we should fil the gap here. we should bdge the gap because

unless we reconcile their difference ere will not be stability there, there will not be stability whe the violence ocrred. we are doi our best to bring about stabilityithout wch dithout solving this issue. the facts on the ground will be very very challeing. >> charlie: are you making any progress? sure, we have made progress. but it will take ti. you know, since we are dealing with hamas and the palestian authority does take time. and the process is some sort of ternal intervention. for instance, we were st about

facilitate delive of the prison chalet. charlie: with hamas -- >> we were about to sece his release and solve this problem but external interventions outside interventis interfed inthatbut were working on that end in cooperation with the geans. >> charlie: t is said that the israelis, you have sgested this, thathe israes made extra demands and prevented you and egypt from gainingontrol of the prisoner that you uld return him in exchange fo lestinians. thathe problem was that you had deal and israel ma additional demands. is that true? >> you have good deal of pof

in what you said wead agreed on at let a number of the prisoners. but at o point in time, iael ded certain terms and conditions that imded progress. that is in addition to external interventions. were doing an effort and e germans are willing to join has and we do welcome them in ordeto secure that. the deal was to take care of chalet a release a number of prisoners and when thisis done will hand ov chalet over. we are still following this intelligence organizatn's working on tt and we still have hope to concle this on a

good note. >> chaie: do you think it's likely to happen soon? >> i c't say that cerinly. because deing with others takes time. for instancehen we are doing some reconciliatio at the 11t ho, you'll find a new dierence, you'll findew terms d conditio. an we received hamas deletions, we receivedhe -- and thprocess is on and we still have great hope we will conclu this successfully successfull >> charlie: it also said you wanted to bng together hamas and oers and that syria prevented you from havina conference. i don't mention anycountry in particular by name.

but i ow that there are certain inteentions by other countries. i cannot say, i cannot say that syria is the one that impeded things, you know tt. i know, you know and i know that. it is clear the contacts with iran are clear and tre are constant contactsetween them, hamas a gaza. you might have heard abo the demonstrations tt were stag in tehran a couple days back ago. they say no gaza, no lebanon. we are we canpin our blood

r the sake of tehran. no ga, no gaza. anno lebano referng t hezbollah. but we uld sacrifice their lives for the se of death. but they don'tcare about gaza, they don't care about lebanon. this would give you the bottom line of wt's going on. >>harlie: do you believe iran plays a destabilizing role? >> i would like to tel you somethin abo iran. iran and the internal probms

we have o the country, there is some interrence of other countries, from feign countries, not from ira that pushed the iranians to hold these demonstrations a the stris and all these things. i suppe there i some part interfering with iran. in the meantime, however, until iran, i say to iran, i you complain of the interventions against the forces of iran i will say to you, don't interfe with the home affairs of other arab countries. like lanon,ike hamas and hers. since you complain of this external or foign interferenceso don't do i wi other countries. >> charlie: there is this idea in ts region, the middle ea and the gul that egypt and

iran are competi to be the dominantegional force. egypt, iran. >> first, i would not compare ourselves toran. iran is not an arab country to start with. >> chlie: in the regn. >> so in the arab countries, they are trng, they are attempting. but our eort is known. they are tryg to dominate certain arabs but th will n succeed in this. we are capable, we are not competing th them and our role is well-known in the region. hover we will no compete with

the region. seems to be that people are thinking, have some wishful thinking saying is. >> charlie: o you think israel will allow iran to have a nuclear weapon? >> only before -- and the defense -- israel. alof them are ainst weapons in iran. ouunderstanding is the whol reon shouldbe free of all forms or types -- whether it'sran or israel. this doesn't mean iran will come up with something and oths also. this will be a problem.

>> charlie: it is also said th you are urging president obama to urge israel not to use, not to engage in strike against iran. >> would like to say something. this issue of the capability of iran, if it goes onward and it haened that military force of this is against the whole reon. against use military pow. th's why iay this should be so amible and i commend ir. i ll at they have suffient flexibility to negotiate with reprentatives of america to resolve is issue in order that no military actions would b

ought about. want to stop all litary acvity. >> charlie there is some debate in america as to whether the obama admistration is correcin reenging, reengang wh iran. should ty? >> so i think negotiations tween iran and usa is much better a solution if they can achieve some cclusions without choong the military foe. >> charlie: et me come back to arab, pestinian and israeli palestinian. the arab initiative is considered to be a bargaining position. >> the arab itiative is very clear. if iael has some of the

probms between them andhe palestinian and two states are established, israel with a palestine, two states, i tnk arabs can have normal relations with israe >> charlie: settlements have to stop. >> i have another pnt of view. and instead stopping me settlements and weeard this ma times. wh i can say that weave to consider the ole issue holistically. on the final resolution i want to hav some temporary or final solutions. i said forget aut tporary beuse the peoples will think thathis is the nal step.

my pnt of view is that, i say e final sution. so we hav an agreedfor final resolution. if we can do this with lestinians, i think this wod be a very good tim >> charlie: a what's necessary to do it? what has to happen t make the agreement? to cree a pastinian state that isrl feels secity, so that they will t be hamas someone else on the west bank able toob missiles intohe israeli international airpor >> how to ce to this agreement, we are working on this resotion between hamas

d palestinians. if we can ce a conclusi, especially if interferes, we caconvince the authorit to sit with israeli prime ministers. that's the optimum solution. >> chaie: what progress have you made to get $5 bilon reconstruction going to za? >> no one has received any money so far. we had a confence and we agreed on $5 billion butuntil now, who isgoing t receive is amount of money so one should take it and spend

it so we need a committee to agree on a committee using these funds. it'sot toe given toamas or to be given to the authority as well. >> charl: you believe at until hamand fatah can agree, there can be no peace. >> this is correct. and we are working on this. and we observed laborious efforts we tri to overco with hamas. if we reach ts point i believe after thatill go mh easier.

>> crlie: benjamin netanyahu is talking about what. >> about gting together d soing these problems. finalborder lines or temporary ones a there is some sort of agreementbetween netanyahu and barack also reed that we come to the final solutn and implementation on stag. it should be of coue a ver tough negotiation but this is better. >> crlie: i have asked you this before. do you believe benjan netanyahu, the prime minier of israel is prepedo see a state of palestine is he ready? >> you ask me, i wt you to undetand, i and the israeli press saythe fatherof netaahu say i will not allow a

stat i think you should have a palestian state but this might be sometnghat these insurgence without the establishmt of pastinians, no stability woulde achieved and woulde continued with this olence. and the regionwill never be calm, i think. now it is the right me that we should achieve a resolutn. netanyu, when he formed his government and hadapproval, then he had the minister of trade. he told me this vernment will be a government for peace. >> charlie: is h prepared to take a ris for peace? >> i think he shod take a risk. >> charlie: and wt risk are

you prepareto take? >> yes? >> charlie: what are you preparedo give to create, contributeto pce between the palestians and the israelis? >> we are working onhis. we are very kn there shode stability and no stability unless we have the palestinians, the inner problems and association with them. and assistlso as regarding the meeting between th authority, with the israeli goverent. or didanyou mee' something else. charlie: no, i djtd. i meant exactly that. there are some who sgests that ere ought to b a syrn track. go to damascus, that's wre you start because the he

influence wi hamas. >> i don want ttalk about syri by the fact some problems wi them but it isan arab state. t we cannot stop. they can imped maybe tough terference by iran because they had political offers in damascus. but th people, looking for peace, en people in gaza, they want peace. and if the ople wanted to have peace, nothing can stop when therare military attacks on gaza. many people were killed and many buildings re destructed and were smuch impacted with the boer lines with us.

and people want live a i lled the minter of defense and called for stopping this. we iited the pre minister of france, and they were with us. anthis was stopped, ts has to stop because peoe want to live in peace. >> charlie: what role is cutter playing? cutter, the emir, where al jazeera ces from. >> d't get me into trouble. >> charlie: tell me wt you think. cutter. cutter can py agood role. charlie: are they playing a good role. arehey playing. >> if theywant. >> arlie: but they're not now? >> iannot say for se because the was nothing clear before me to decide. >> charlie: they want to play

a role. >> okay, ty play a role. they can play a good role for the sake of peace. we want peace, youid, i did, anyone which isnot thepoint, but peaces what matters. >> charlie: when your fend presidt obama came to cairo and made the famous speech he talked about democrat z peace, women he tald about economic development and h talked about extremm. where ishe battle today between the source of eremism and the forcesf moderation? >> i think thisuestion you could have asked it to the previous administratn.

the previs administration, the polics thate have which is coating terrorism which was appliedens of times. and the forces incread. so what happened in iraq, iraq was distracted, afghanisn. it was difficult to ctrol ghanistan. i'm saying toou frankly, afghanistan is very mountaino area. we used to dl with them before how handle them. you see the clans d the tribes. you see the ads of tribes. you trto talk t the pple, do some development for them. u can seour expse to attack. the russians hasaidhat.

they wer eight years bombing afghanistan and they have no acce. i think the timal solution is to have development in afghanistan and discussi matters with the hds o tbes and clans, ts might save you a lot of bloshed that's happened. >> charlie: is the role of women in the metal -- middl east going to change, is it channg in egypt? the role of women. >> don't you kn that the role of woman has anged? we amended the constitution for the sake women is one ofhe main pointsfor women in the parliant. we have, i think the exact number of parliamt women. ha women alexandra th first time, the president a

woman. we have fale ministers and ofessors and deans of different lleges. now womeis workg the political field. we have a lot of em. so the role of woman has changed radilly especially our countr in egypt. and the constitution gives the right for wen to certain cab nuts for running for election the parliament. >> charlie: let me ma -- there are a nuer of points i want to make he. e, you've had ergency rule since 1981. emergency rule. you should be confident ough, confident ough in your leadership not to have to. youill not grasp fully the emergency rule. has been there sin the da of the btish occupation and it usedo be lled marshall law.

we confide our recourse to the emergency law to terrorist crimes. herwise it is the rule of law under t courts ofaw. but do not believe what you say. we have demonstrations. if you go to e letter of the emerncy law, nobody would go to the adnistration. anthis emeency law was agreed upon by t majority. >> charlie: but is it still necessary. >>t was presented in the parliament might b the muslim brotrhood. we have two choices.

either to issue a role to combat imperialism which will be a peanent law, i was refused because nobody nted a permanent law. and the second choic is emgency ruleshat wil be used clusively for terrorists crimes. for instance to close down a newspaper or to contain or limit freedom ofovement. y other aument is missing. >> charlie: do you believe the muslim brotherhood is good for egypt? >> gooor bad. as long as they do not commit any terrorist cmes, i don't care. charl: you don'tare.

>> history ithere toread. >> charlie: the history egypt r the last 28 years is the htory of one man, hos mubarak. th's the htory of egypt. wh is your legacy. what are you proud of. what will they y aut you when you leave >> is that i haveeen working in public service for 60 years. i took part, i saw tion. i ruilt the cntry after milita action. revamped the entire infrastructure of egypt. we aremproving education, we e expanding educaon. we are buiing and doing many other things. >> charlie: wou egypt b

fe if you lef >> very safe. egypt is a large cotry. egypt has a constitution and the constituti sets clear the role each and everybody and nodyu can viole the constution. but if egypt wereone manas you say or as it i said, iouldn't have done anything. i workith the head of institutions, withhe help of th parliament much -- the parliament. it is strong now. it c bring down vernment losing the vote o confidence. it can change the budgethe way they decide, the way t paiament decides. we havamended 34 aicles in the constitution. this is unprecedented. >> charlie: mr. president

with respect many people say thathere will not be a leader of egypt who is not acceptable to the ay. as youave been. as anwar satwas, as naser was. all of the same tradition, the free offices traditi. that has not changed in egypt. you know that, i knowhat. >> it might change afterrds, this might cnge afterwards. nobody knows w will sceed. we he elections. when the time comes for election, the peoe will vot naser was an oicer. i stayed in the armed forces until reach the highest

rank. and i saw aion. and i was decorated at the hightevel. it is not mine is going to become president i served as vi president doing lots offforts for six yrs as viceresident. thenthen i tookver a esident. >> charl: that's my point ishat there is no one going to become president oegypt who is notcceptable to the military >> no, no. i don't agree to thistatement. >> chaie: many people their right, the economist mazine that there is a new ture for the arab world. egypt is t leaders of therab world alonwith saudi arabia and other untries. te me how you s that. the future for the ar wod. because some say, you know, that

egypt and others ar more mode, more en uged, more entrepreneurial an mor free. that'she future. >>ore ee. >> charlie more fre >> this is right, there is a valid statement. yes, there is a big awakeni in the arab rion. there are new generions and there is new blood in the pubc rvice and there i quite a change under going in the ar world. >>harlie: thank you. >> thank you. >> charlie: from the presidential palace in cairo, the president of egy, hosni murak. the thank you for joining us. we will e you torrow night as the president engages

tomorrow morning with t prident of the united states. see you morrow night.

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