>> rose: wcome to the brdcast. we come toou thisvening from washgton and we begin wh egyptian president hoi mubarak who s on this program last night. day he met th president obamat the white house. >>e wanted to get inhis thoughts to president obam beforebama makes any kind of an announcement of some sort of a peace initiive. and so i don't think tt president mubarakut anythingew as far as i've heard in terms of ideas, but he's really tryg to pre obam i think, to be very forceful in this initiative and in effect t try to impose some kind of a soluti on the gion. >> the who idea of a gesture from the arab world is to mak these t isrlis feel mor comfortae about these very hard decisns that are going to come, whether it ttlement

frze, borders,refugees, the by position of jusalem and so on and so forth. but, again, t arab worl lieves that they have gone as fa as theyould poibly go. just becse they're authoritarn regimes doesn't mean publi opinion doesn't unt in these places. >> rose: we conclude this evening th what some say is the most important bileral relationship ithe world. it is beten china and the united states. for china's perspective, we turn to china'smbassador to the united states. >> china's development ll be peeful, china's development is oprtunity for each, includg the unitedtates. china's developmenthould not be vied as a threat and we don't want to be a reat, we want to live in peace with eryone. rose: mubarak an obama, china and e united states. next.

captioning sponsoredy roseommunications >> re: as many of you know, we had a conversation wh egyptian president hosni mubarak on friday in cairo. today president mubarak wasn washington meeng with presidenobama. itas president mubarak's first visit to washington in fiv years after cooling in u.s. relaons during the bush administration. the trip comes as the obama administration is eply involved inrying to bre a dead locke in middle east ace

talks. it wan israel to halt selement activities d is asking araleaders to mak concessions to move e process forward. thtwo presidents spokefter e meeting thisfternoon. >> ( transted ): we need to move to the nal status level and i have contactedthe israelis a they said perhaps wean talk about the temporary solutionr perhaps a final status, but i told them no, rget about the temporary solution and rget about temporary borders. that's why i came today to talk to president obama and to s mt will give more hop and more confidence to the people about this iue. >> one of the things that you discovern studyg history and being a part of politics is just because sothing kessense doesn'mean it happens. and we are going to have t work very hard and ultimately that's going to hav to be some

urageous leadership not only from the palestinians and the iselis but also from the other arab states supporthis effort. >> rose: joing me now, michele dunn of e cnegie endowme for international pce and stevenook. thank you for coming. leme start with you, chele. tell me what came out of thi, if anything, mubarak, oma, first visit. what d each sideope to get out this? >> well, mubak was really eager to reestablish for al to see the fact tha he's back in the good graces ofin and of the whi house. >> rose: andthat he's hethy and moving. >> that's true. d i think he got that out of hisisit. he also reay played up the fact that before the visit h wantedo get in his thoughts to presidt obama before oba makes any kind of an announcement ofome sort of a peace initiate. and so i n't think that president murak really brought

anything new as far as i've heard in terms of ideas, but he's really trying to press obama, i think, toe very foeful in this initiative d effect to try to impose some kind of a lution on the region. >> are the egyptians successful at all i trying to bri togetheratah and hamas? >> they've been working at this for a coupl of years now they haven't been successful. they're launching new shuttle diplomacy effort now instead o convening the o factions in cairo which they've been doing fomonths and months. but i have to say, frankly, i think this is a very difficult thing to do. d i'm not that optimistic that the eptians are goingo be able to pull it togeth unless there's some b development in thelargericture that would real motivate the palestinians to pull themselves togetr. >> so what's int for washington. >> well, what's in it for washington is essentially tryg to enlist the egyptians in the wider worl in helping to fosr

an environment for peace. >> rose: but aren't they on board? >> well, they are on board but the conversation hashifted in washington fro pressure o the israelis regarding settlemt cotruction to what are the arabs ing to give back r this halng of settlement constructi. >> rose: at let a gesture of some kind. >> at least agesture o some sort to the israi people that ll make the israelis feel re comfortable about a settlement freeze. the arabs priiple state "lk, the egyptians havea peace treaty they engage in security coopetion with the israelis, what more can they possibly dgiven the situation in th k and the gaza strip?" the saudi the other big arab heavyweight respondents say, look, we have tabled the arab initiative, it has beeon the ble since pnce, 2002. th offers israel normal relations once there a deal between the israelis and the palestinns. so the arab rld isn't inclined toive president obama that gesture that he's been seeking

to cate this environment. rose: now what gesture would say to the oba administration they're trying? >> well, i think that if president barakhad agreed to go back to arab leaders as a leader in the arab arena and try to push this process forward and if preside mubarak himself has agreed to do something. as said, nobodyin the region is inclined to do ese kinds of things. there'been ideas that have been floated allowing the raelis civilian airliners access to saudi airspace, returning arab trade representatives to tel aviv and so on and soorth. but the arab world believes they've en there and ty've do that. they did that in the 1990s and we're in a worse situation than we we back in th 1990s. so they're not gng to give somethg for essential what they sees nothing. >> rose: thing in ter of right to return an some modification of at so that it's more acceable to the israelis? >> precisely. this... the whole ideaf a gesture om the arab wld i to make the israelis feel more

comfortae about these very hard decisio that are goin to come, whether it's settlement freeze, borders, rugees, the disposion of jerusalem and so on and so forth. t, again, the arab world se... believes that they have gones far as they could possibly go. just because they're authoritarian regimes esn't mean pubc opinion dsn't count these places andhey don't believe that they have... theirolitical systems have the caring carrying capacy to do much more an they've already ne. >> rose: there trying hard, arthey not, wh general suliman meeting with the israelis includi.ks theretalkinh and mas d... >> yes, thers been an active diplomatic effort thateneral suliman, the director of intelligce, in egypt has been in charge of. there ve been many rounds of talks in cai. the eptians even trd imposing deadlines and they found it just didn't work. thtwo palestinn parties-- hamas and fatah-- e pretty far

apart, don right now have a lot of motivation to come bk together. >> rose: e ctral criticism ofgypt the nature of the government and the nate of mubarak's reme, or is it something else >> well, i you mean the ctral criticism inside egypt ielf amon egyptians, yes, would be the... that would be theact that.... >> rose: it's an autocrati reme? >> an aocratic regime, there's many man rights abuses and generally so of a poor quali ofovernance. thingson't run well. educional services, health services, etc., are poor. and egyptians look at their cotry and other countries like them and they s that other countrs have progressed much further in terms of econom development, political development,human right and so forth. do the dinitely is a sense egypt th theountry has stagnated. >> but is there some change in tes of entrepreneurl activity and that nd of thing? because there has been some influx of new d younger people

in the n.d.p. under mubarak. >> there has been a serious program of economic reform. >> rose: right. >> over about the last four years. >> rose: not potical, economic. >> this is structural economic reform and is very good in its own wa mean, the baing sector, they've done a l of things to attract investment and they've been successful inhat. the problem with thi is thi ki of economic reformakes years in order for the benefits to tru down and actually brin abt an improved stdard of livingor the population an they're far from that at this point. and, in fact, there are strikes today inhe industria nter. people w are protesting theirw g conditions, ck of reesentation on ate-sponsored unions. sossentially t macroeconic picture of egypt loo good over the course ofhe last uple years, but essentlly they've impovred theountry to get there. >> ros that brings me to succession. when i was in egypt last week,

that all they talk aut. >> succession is the megaissue now. every cafe, every friend, everybod >> rose: there ithis very prolonged transition goingn. >> rose: what do you thi is the realityof successio >> i think the reality right now is that presint mubarak is reluctant to leave office himself. he's giving indicatis that he y well run again even two years from nowwhen he's 83 and has been in power for 30 years. >> rose: his answer toe was repeatedlyi have two years to decide." yes,es. but there have been a few other indications at perhaps if his health perts that he would even be inking of running again at this point. i think the successi is they don't feel it's fully arrange but cleay hisson has been positioned in every way through the constituti, through the ruling party, throu new laws that have en passed and so forth to be the logical candidate for th ruling party to p up in presidential

elections after prident mubaralis. that not the only possility for successi. there's still the ssibility of someone from the military intelligencetepping in, but there has definitely be a large so of framerk set up for guamel marak to sceed. >> rose: and no one will succeed without the approval of the military? >> that's correct. >> i think it's an informal requirement for egyptian presiden. all military officers. >> rose: all the continug of an idea. >> exactly. exactly. and there have been indications over the course of the last couple years that gel mubarak, who does not have a military bacd, has been seeking to qop relations an culvate militaryfficers so tt he ensure athat crucial moment of a transition he willave the support of the officer corps. we, of crse, d't know whether he's been successfult that. but ihink as michelleointed out, the table has essentially been set. if the was a nomination process, g, amubarak would

be t only one whohe natnal democratic pty could ninate for the potion or logically nominateor theposition. >> rose: iant both ofou to sum the signicance, the importance in tes of t future of the middle et of egypt. >> egypt isheargest arab country. one out ofevery four arabs is egyptian. andso what happens i egypt cots tremendously for the rest of the arab world and the rest of the arab world, althoh egypt is not the onlyountry with educati the way i used to be, it's still tremenusly important. and so, you know, whether or not there will be some sort of reform, me sort of move towa a more open politicalystem and so forthn egy is hugely important for the restf the region. >> i would agree 100%. egypt is a bellwether of the region. ifhere's some sort of democratic break thrgh in egypt, it will afft the rest of the regi. but the reverse is also the case. a narrower dictatohip will affect t rest of the region. we shouldt lose sight of the fact with all ofthe phasis

ond is, pakian, iraq,egypt is the intellectual center of transnional jihadism. it springs fm there. ye osama bin laden is saudi, ayman al-zawahiri is egyptian and al qaeda is essentially an egyptian organizatio so this is a ver important country has tremendous opportunity but also cane very scary. >>ose: deep roots in erything arab. >> yes. absolutely. they really do. i mean, even the oppositi groups and so forth we'veeep spring up in egypt inspire copycats where in the arab world used t be the egyptian government uer nasser that led. now it's not much the egyptian governmenbut still th egyptian people and the ings that they do, e new egyptian med and so forth inspir imitation elsewhe in the arab world. >> rose: >> the wayn which the uned ates hascultural hodge gemini in the world, egypt has it in

the region. if you're i morocco an you're speaki egyptian arabic, they say so you're speaking must bey arabic. that's why 's important. i was in kuwait on iraq's first elections in fe the, kuwaitis said "this great for iraq but if it haened in egypt, it would shake th region." >> rose: fee venn cook, thank you. >> tha you. >> rose: i'm in washington, d.c. with zhou wenzhong. he has served a cna's ambassador to the uned states since 2005. he is a key figure in whichwhat some call the most imptant bilaterarelationship in the world. he works on a range of issues important to both countries, including trad taiw, north korea,limatehange, and the economy. as the economic cris has spread, he has said that china and the united state now share a greateresponsibility for global stability d peace. i am pleased to have the

ambassador on this program for the rst time. welcome. >> thank you. rose: you have said... you have said this ithe most impoant bilateral lationship in theworld. what makest so? >> i'm notthe only one who is ying this, charlie. there ar other people w have said the same thi. i think it's true tt the relationship that china and the united states have assumed great global significance. cha is the largest devoping country,he u.s. being t largest deloped count. if we could wor together and we can solve many global issues. and the global issu need global solutions. so if we can work togeer, it will be easier for these solutions to b work out. >> ros let's walk through those isss. >> yeah. rose: climate change is one big issue. >> right. >> rose: our secretary o state spoke to that when sh was in china. what pgress are we makg and what are the difficuies that

face the twoountries because they are at different stages in their development. >> the will be a cenhagen conference and china takes a very positive attitude to t conference a we hope the conference will be a success a i think the keyto that is for all the mbers of the unid nations that work together and also to carry out negotiations according to...n accordance with the mante of the bali road map. and basically there are several things. one iseveloped countries should te the lead in reducing the emissions of carbon dioxide and alsoeveloped countries i hope will do me in providing chnology and funding to developing countries. in other words, to help them to

achieve the reducon. and, of course, developing countries shoulddo thr part as well. within t framework of sustainable development. >> rose: is it possible for china to meet ceain emissions standards without resaining its economic development >> i think we are doing what we should do. e of the thingwe have enacted a number of ls such as engy saving act and renewable engy resources act and also natial programs forg th climate chang and we haveet a goal voluntary. that is that the chge in 2010 ll reduce the energy intensit by 0%. that is the consumption of energy by 20

and so between 2005 and 200 i think we have consumed about 3 miion tons of coal. no, ls anso if you transform that into carbon dioxide, that is we have reduced emissions ofbout on billion tons of carb dioxidand i think we'll continue to do that. so according to the special envoy folimate chae, china will annoyance nouns aime for the peek. >> ros has chi made a commitment to the world's leader in dealing with climate chan, with environmental questions in developing technology, in makg nationa moves that will show t world what's possible and put china in an envile position i the ture? >> china can't do the job itse, just by itsel i think we needto work

together. everyone. doing its pt. includg china. then i thi the joban be do. >> rose: but the pnt ishe deeper one in sense. my friend tom freedman h raised this questn. whoever tuz the mostn terms o developing the technolog f dealing with these environntal questis, the rest of the world will have to beat. >> but.... >> rose: a path to their orstep. >> right becae china is a country with the rgest pulation. but in per capita, china not really t largest emitter >> rose: right> d historically,s been deveping and gwing very fast, just over the last 30 years. i think wmust have historical sense and al the per capita factor elements should be.... >> rose: chi should be judged by diffent sndards than the

developed rld? >> notifferent staards. let me put it this way. th.. according to the kyoto accord and also the u.n. framewk agreement, the principle has been let out that is common b differentiated responsibility. and the developed countries... now, bear in min the lev of the develoent and the amount of eney consumed i the past shouldake the lead in reducing the emission of carbon dioxide d other grehouse gas. that's what has be said. >> rose: along that lin, education. >> yes. >> rose: what is the chin commitment to higher edation? you did a survey of great iversitiesnd you want china to bon that survey. >> china, of course, needs to...

it needs to have more peopl properly educated. and right now what we he in cities is nine yr education. in the country side it's only sixears compulsoryducation. so we have a long way to go. and i think only about,ou know maybmore than 0% of the gh school graduat can move on, 20%. and... buof course among all. among the high school graduates, lot of them have come this way. >> rose: ce to the united states. >> come to the unitestates. >>:rt me if i wrg. the largest exchange students between the united states with china is the unitestates. we have 2000 now studying in china. >> we havebout 90,000. >> rose:ou have 90,0 in america? >> studying inhe united states on different campuses, yes. >> rose: is tre a...ell me

how you're emphasizing education. >> education, we have a poli that's actuall a national strategy. that is to develop countrie through ecation with scien and technology. so ts is the idea of fundmental picy of china. so that's why the government has put much emphasis on education. the government hasincreased its inpu in... that is t say has increased the government expenses for education. it's taking a larger share in terms of the budget ofhe country. and also vis-a-vis the.d.p. >> rose: when you look at t united states, what is it about the united states andts growt d development to its positi in the world today that yousay we want tomulate that. we want to copy that. weant to beas good as they are at that.

>> yeah, i think wt the form and opening up iemanding is that we ne to learn om others, whater that is good for china. so i thinkhat's what we are. we have be trying to do since the beginning of theeform program in 1978. so that is wt we've been doing. >> rose: s everywhere you look around the world, if somebody's doing something that would ba benefit to china you say bring it to china. >> right, right. including the unit states. >> rose: what is it about the united states, the >> i think y have very developed scnce andechnology and the managemt skill and the very enterprising mentity, very creative in t... in work. >> rose: it'san interting idea. it used toe said-- and less so now-- thatne difference in america over the last 15, 20 years or longer was that there

was a creativity here, an innovation here th wasn't necessarily at that timer in history prest in china. is that true? do you think? >> you mean.... rose: somehow the were factors that l to a society being mo creative here. >> part of the... partf the... education has something do with... it hassomething to do with education. it h something to do with tradition. has something to do with the composition of the population. uned states is a country of migrants and people very... smarpeople from all corne of thworld that com to the uned states and they're ling this count and so i think they haveaken the best traditions

from all...verywhere to the united state >> rose: what should w learn from y? >> china... confusion philophy being a part of tradionn china...onfucius philosophy ing a part of tradition in china, w put more ehasis on the role of thecollect i rather than veg so we tend to emphase more for the rolef the collectiv rather than throle of e individual. so hab that's the difference. each has its meri so maybe we suld learn from eachther on that. >> rose: well, someg inhe economic spre you've been enormously successful becae, in part, you had an economy that could be influenced by a smaller group of people that a democracy did not hav the advantage of doing.

you could crte a stimulus program of $572 billion and make it work tomorrow. th's the nature of... >> yh. that's the merit of the kind of systeme have. but, of course, we have also put emphas on the. the desion-making process. that h s has to be, younow, democratic. in other words, you need t lien to all sides not just... fwoub dangerousif is onen listenin... >> rose: lisn to all side bere you make the decision. >> right,ight. s. rose: what impact has the opening of china certaiy to foreign business b a more open society done to china? how has it changed china? >> open society. i think reform d opening up programs has helped china to

chart a new road. that have is to build china, build sociasm according to chinesecharacteristics. that is to say we... w can't just develop china with e model in md. i thinkno... one model th uld fit forhina. in oth words, while developin the economy, while developing the democracye should bear in mind the conditions in china. we should tryto find a lution which is best for chinese conditions so that's whate're trying to do and we've already found tt role. >>rose: has the influx of commerce and other progrs led to a mor liberal, open china?

>>py will comre china tay to that 30, 40 years ago. i think it's much more open. china used to be a very closed society and, ofourse, one thing we have discovered is tha cha cannot shut i doors on othersf you want to develop china into a modern country. so i think that's a very important thg we have learn. >>ose: now, you have witnessed all of tha wh deng xiopi when hcame to the united states. >> i was her ias at the office but i attended some of theactivities. >> rose: now, what wast about him that enabled him to sort of signal theuture forhina? >>e's a very broad-minded and far-sighted leader. and he ved china and the only

thing he wants t do is to make his dream come true. that is china iso become a stro country one day in the world. and isort of unconventional. he has courage to do away with the traditions. some of em are not good for china. and it is t easy for him to be that cougeous considering the conditions at that te that exted in china. so he's a ver courageous person with a good command of the... of changes which areaking place in the world. so i think he has verood grp of the situation, the developments arod the wod.

he knows china at that time if we doot change china will lag behind. and the only w out for china to rein its vitali is to introduce reform. >> rose:o what's the reform movementn china tod? how would you define it? reform, thi... of course we will continue to carry out the reform program. the go, of course, is clear, that is to develop china into a modernized country. and economic reform, we' still the process of that. >> rose: wheres it going. >> economi reform, i think... what we ha is a system whery there are the different ownerships exist,o-exist, and

we... the chinese... the kind of onomy we have in china is differenfrom what you have here it's also very different from what china had before 1978. so it's... some people said before that was not possie for we to have a role of tt type but we have succeeded so far. sohat to say it's a coination, it's a comnation. and then, of cours politic reform. it's the kind of political system which would bbest suited for chinese condition. anthen there will bether reforms. >> rose: and what is best suited forhinese conditions mean? >> i think first of all to guarantee that people wi be able t participate i the political process asuch as they can. buthe question isow could

thate brought about? china is a big country with 1.3 billion people a the level of education is still not high and even there are pple who are stl illiterate. so under these cirmstances, how to make sure that people will be able toarticipate in the politica process. so we are experimentg with e...tf ete ville leveland we are... we have the kin of politica system have international people's congress system and we ao have chineseeople's political consultive conference. sohe chese people politil consultive the conference has made it possible for ople from all walks of life to be part of the political process. to partipate in the discussion of the major decisions. so thesere thekind of reform

we arecarrying out i china. >> rose: wt do you fea the most? when i say "you," i mean the highest lels of chine gornment. what conrns you the mo? >> concerns. of cours i think the leaders have a lot to be concned about because chinis such a b country with such a big population in the world and the population is aging very fast before cna has become very prospeus and we don't have yet a nationwide social secity stem, although we e trying to put together a social securi system. we don't yete a nional health care system that is good and to make sure every people when 's sick will be taken good care of. so i think there are so many things out there crying out to

be done. so i tnk the biggest conce that theyant to make se every citizen in chinaill be properly taken care of. i know they ll haveequal rights to education, to jobs to a decent lev life stdards. >> rose: a probably-- and you correct me if'm wro-- it would not be attainable if you hadn't made the shift thatou have made in your economic attitudeowards the market. >>eah, that's te. that's tru yeah. i think that's very clear. if we do not carry out reform, there wi be no way out. heaid that at the beginnin of e reform program. >> ros who said that? deng xiaoping he saidthere would no way out. >> rose: here is "th ecomist" magazine "asia's astonhing rebou."

when they y thathey're talking about china a large deee. wh has happed since the global economic crisis in cna and how essential is that to your own amtion? >> chi was hit very hard. foreign trade dropped by som 0%. and. 20%. d the g.d.p. droppe to 6.1% inhe first quarternd it sor of managed to do better in the second quart. so on the who for the first half of the yearit's 7.1%. it's much lower than the average growth rate r the last years. so china was hit pticularly r some of the region along the coast. for instance, shanghai,he first quarter, the g.d.p. grow isnly 3%. around the river it's very bad, many factories collapsed and

ma people lost js, about 20 million migrant wkers went back to theihome. so... but the goverent took action immediately and came up with a stimulus pkage and so since en we see ver gradual provement in theerformance of our economy. >> rose: are you developing a consumer dend? >> that's what we hope, yeah. d because.... >> rose: so you won have to dend on exrts. >> right, righ obviously we nd to cnge the growth model. itsed to be expt oriented and now, you know, after the financial crisis, the consumptn side will not b the. the amountf consumption will not be the. >> re: so you have to have a

new model, economic model that does not depd on a global demand f china products. >> in the longun. >> rose: in the ng run. >> yes. >> rose: and therefore you have to createhat deman within your own society. >> but it will take some time. rose: what's "time"? what's the timerame? 20 years 25 years. >> don't know. i n't know whether we have that kind of time frame. but it wl take time you know,he effort toevelop a nationwe social security progra the effort toevelop a nationwide health care system is part of th effor to develop moredomesticonsumption. >> rose: and it's going... yo can see it's beginning toake root. >> y, yes. i think so. yes. unss people are of sort of that... when the ar sic they will be taken car of. when they are unemployed there can be... they will be tak ca of. people will have to say.

they want to save more. >> rose: saving ha not been a problem. >> saving is not a proem. aughs) but, you know.... >> rose: speing has been the oblem. >> you wanpeople to spend more. so you want people to sort of.... >> rose: spendingasur problem. (laugh saving was our problem, spding was our... >> now savingere sin creasing. >> rose: exactly. so there's all kinds of speculation. everybody talks about this relationship bween the united statesand china where you export, we import. you save, wespend. we just...verything works out fine. when you are a nder and we are borrower. that's been theclassic relationship thahas made your economy grow and enabled us to have andake care of a current accots deficit. that the reity. will that change? >> i think it will change cause obviouslyhe growth mol here will change.

the amountf consumption will not be out there. people will save more. if it's ppening and itill ntinue, i think. but the fundamental questio here, i think, is t development issu so we need to pay more attention to the development issue. development for all the developing cntries. so if the..the issue of developmt has been given more attention fchltd if more help is proving to the devoping country and then the consumpti will. there will be the consumption. th consumptionor all the veloping countries put togeer will increase. >> re: what they worrybout that you're gng to stop buying our treasuries. u're goingop buying our debt. >> i think the qution has been put to both the vice premr and also the counsor. >> rose: i was here, yes. >> right.

i thk they have answered t qution. >> rose: s repeat it f the audien. >> ihink china wilhave to invest sewhere. >>ose: (laughs) that's true. >> if t conditions are good-- and ihink china will inst. so of course we're concerned about the sety. >> rose: are you concerned aut thamerican economy? when you look athe american economy, a you saying "wait a minute." >> i thinke wish you success. we hopyou will do better. >> rose: i hear you. i hear you wishing, hear yo hoping. ll me whatou expect. >> i think it's improving. >> rose: t u.s. economy? i think so, yes. th's what i kept hearing from many specialists. >> rose: at e security and econic dialogue and elsewre. >> elsewhere yes. >> rose: whatou're hearing is th america's economy, while china... cna's rebounding. >> many peopleelieve that in thfourth quart torre session will sort of gradually.... >> rose: inmerica or arod the world? >>n america.

>> rose: the recessionill... it will wk out of recession e fourth quarter. but the question is, you know, in t years that will follo the growth will slow >>ose: let mesuggest what i ink you're saying. weill only iest in america asong as we think there's no bett investment if at any time there's a better place for cha to put its money, that's where we're going. >> but i think f a long time to come it wl be difficult to find that place. what do you thin >>ose: i'msking you! (laughs) >> because it's a global financial cris. it's not just a financial crisis here. (laughs) >> rose: so you look around toy, you can't see anywhere better to put your money than americ >> that's why i don't have... clos to800 billion. >> rose: if yo would start duing your investment in america, itould wreak havoc on our ecomic syste >>o, we're not.. >> rose: but that's not in your interest. >> it would not be in our

interest, it would n be in your intert, it would not be in the ierest of the world. >> rose: up so for thetime being china's ambition is create some demand locally... domestic demand to relieve some of the pressuren its ports, hop that america's economy conties to grow it's a good investment for i to invest its money. >> and moreattention will be given to developing issue for veloping countries. >> rose: meanin that you are looking to africa to invest in natural resourc. >> no,hat's for everyone who are able to bef help. >> rose: okay. tell me what you mnt, then. >> i thinke can workogether. that has been advocat b prident of the world bank and theeputy secretary. >> rose:obert zoeick. that china bome a stakeholder was his famo refrain. >> and we'llwork together in africa. i think that's what we can do.

we can at least try to identify projectsrograms where we could wo together. >> rose: as you know,you know neil fergun is a harvard profsor. he coinethe term "chimerica which was thenotion of the two giants and how much impt ey had on the world economy. he think it's inevable that china and thunited states will collide. thathina as its gets mo powerful a bigger and does better economically an expands s militar will end in a collision with america. >> i don't think so:first of all, the's aong way for us to...e we become.. >> rose: tha powerfu >> become a modernizedcountry. a country with modnization. if you go to theinterior pro vipss, you'llind that the level of development is very

low. so that'shina. that's the current status of china. >> re: so you've gotour work cut out for you. >> yes. so it will take generatio, yes to chang that. so i think we hav a lon way to go. >>ose: before youeven think about anything you wt to get your house in order, takeare your people. >> right. also weave that china's delopment will bepeaceful and china's developments opportunitfor everyone, cluding the united stes. cha's development should not be viewed as a threat. we don't want to be a threat we want to live in peace with everyone >> rose: theord youse often isharmony." >> yeah, that's right. harmony the center of chinese philosophy, i think, yeah. >> rose: what does it mean? >> harmonyeaning at home, inside a family sort of harmony with members, members o the

family and in t society harmony, the set of rule and also between a different setof social groups and the world harmy meaning peace and working togeth. >> rose: that's the goal? >> yeah, that's the goal. >> rose: let's tk about some places around the worl darfur. yeah. >> re: better tod? china d the ited states are working on.. >> i thi we hav keptery close conversatis with one anotr about darfur. >> ros what do you differ about on darfur? >> think we shar the same goal. i think the goals the same. rose: but you have different economic skesudan? >> not really. think actually... some of the other untries areuying much more oil than china. but china singled out for one reason or another.

think wehink there are two tracks, one is so of peacekeeping and its political settlement and we think we need to ma even progre on the two tracks in darr. anwith regard to litical settlement, i think we hope the unit states and some of th other countries, developed countries will urge someof t rebel groups to participate i the political settlement. >> rose: w about north korea? >> north korea. i think now the position of the siarties... i mean the five countries in the siparty talks is vy clear. you hope north rea would agree to come back to the six party talks soon. and we hopthey will reaif you rememberheir commitment to the

denuclearizationf the peninsula. >> rose: and if they don't? >> i hope ey will. >> rose: (laughs) yes, i know. >> i hope they will. and so i tnk, younow, we are reassessing the situatio >> rose: reassessing reassessinghe situation, right? >> rose: right. >> because the have been some chges. so few developmes. >> ros meaning, wha the president... fmer presidenclinton's trip? or not? something else? >> they indicated thewant to talk to you. they wanted totalk tohe united states. >> ros what was the indication of that? >> i think that means they agre to come back to talks, but not theix party talks. thtalks rather than talks wit you. >> rose: wou china welcome that? i think we welcome the bilateral contacts beten the united states d north korea.

but we also think the six party talks remain the useful mechanism for settlingthe north korea nuclear ise. >> rose: do u havenfluence with iran? >> influce. i think you also ha influee. other countries in the west he their influence. each has its ow influence, i thin and we all l do our parteing, you know, a member of the 5 plus one. nepaper do you think that in can be convinced? >> i think they are rdy to talk to the west about the clear issue. i think thiss a new delopment. >> rose:nd how should the west respd. >>e need to find out what they mean by that becse before tm there is sort of a prosal from p5 plus, right? >> rose: right. >> and does that mean they are sponding to that prosal or

they... so i tnk we need to find out wt they mean by that. >> rose: wherelse can china and the unit states work together f a result that ll benefit the wld. >> i think w need too something about tha with you also. >> rose: what about w.t.o with >> w.t.o.... i think free trade is goodnd u.s. has benefit add great al from free trade china has benefit add eat deal fromrade. and, of course, i understand some people wantthe rules to be enforcedore vigorously here this country. but i he they would realize trade protectionism is not good for everyo. it's not good for y, not good foyour parers. so i ho they would take a very clear potion against trade protectionism. >> rose: you want this adnistration not to slide into protectionism?

>> i think they've saidhat they aregainst therade protectionism. so we hope wll see action. >> rose: areou in the end still good aut the possibilits? you know.. >> what possibilit? >> rose: that the united stes and china can a diffence and that the processis under way under a new administration in shington? >> working togher with others. because therare other parties. china, the united states, if we work tether thenaybe more... others will be more st of prepar to join. >> rose: everybody aays talks about this, as you well kw, and you'venswered this question a lot and i ask it again in the context of this dialogue. question of human rights and how do you satis a world that

there is progress? >> human rights...hina has made a lot of progress as far a human ghts are concerned and the. our ctribution for the first time we have included prisions, a newrovision that we'rto respect human rights and protect human rights and we have participated... succeeded to many intnational agreements concerning human rights and we are developin the socialist democracy china so to guantee that peoe willeople e to participate in this decision-making press ande are trying veryard to make sure that are the decisi-making process will be mo transpare, will be der

pervision, and i think the government at all levelspay attention to the welfare the people regarding the nefits... the interests of theeople, the starti point for thr work. so i think we are... wehave de a lot of progress. if you g to china and if you have been tohina years ago you will think... yo would come to the conclusiothat things are improving. it's a muchmore open society. >> rose: censorship. >> censorship. censship. >> rose: t fear of sort worldwe dialoe and internet d opinions that might not... at might you believe incite... >> i thi it's a kind of management. the rulation... it's regulated and it is true everywhe.

here it's managed. there are laws whh sort of stipulate tha a certain content is not fit. >> rose: but this is more than pornography. we're not talking about pornography. that'slear. wee talking about political opinions. >> political opinions. actuallythere are more bscribers in china. and ny people have their own blogs in china. if mor tha0 million people have bgs. 300 million people. so if you log on you will find that ty are very open. they are saying evething. >> rose:ll right. so in the end you're optimistic? >> yeah, i think. i think if u go to china and askeople in the street, you'll find the the great ny are very optimistic about their futur >> rose: and they're optimist about theuture of china's role in t word? >> yeahi think so. >> re: and they're timistic about...

>>bout their ownfuture. >> rose:... their own fute. their econom well-being. their economic security their person security? >> right. becae life is security for the jority of team t people in rms of income, terms of living condition in terms theiaccess to the oside world. it has improved a great deal. >> rose: well, clearly. mo people have come ou of poverty in china in the la... >> 3years. snoup... 30 ars, than any te inhe history ofhe world. >> that's true, yes. >> rose: thank y very coming. >> thank you, thank u very much. >> ros pleasure to ve you. >> my pasure. captioning sponsor by rose comnications captned by media cess group at wgbh access.wgbh.org il