>> rose: welme to the broaast. we come to y this ening from washinon and we begin wit egyptian president hosnmubarak who waon this program last night. toy he met wi president obama the white house. >> hwanted to get in s thoughts to president obama before oma makes any kind of an announcement of some sort of a peace initiate. and so i don't think tha president mubarakut anything n as far as i've heard in terms of ideas, but he's really tryin to press obama, think, to be very rceful in this initiative and in effect to try to impose some kind of a solutionn the reon. >> the wholedea of a gesture from the arab world is to make ese t israes feel more comfortablabout these very hard decisio that are going to come, whether it's selement free, borders fugees, thes

by position of jeralem and so on and so forth. but, again, the arab world beeves that they have gone as far as they cld possly go. just becau they're authoritariaregimes doesn't mean public opinionoesn't cot in these places. >> rose: we conclude this evening wi whatsome say is the most important bilatal relationship in e world. its betwe china and the unitedstates. for china's perspective,e turn to china's aassador to the ited states. >> china's development wi be peacul, china's development is oppounity for each, includin the united stes. china's development suld not be viewe as a threat and we don't want to be a that, we want to live in peaceith evyone. >> rose: mubarak and obama, china and thunited states. xt.

captioning sponsed by se communications rose: as many of you know, had a conversati with egyptian president hosni mubarak on friday in cairo. toda president mubarakas in washingtoneeting with present obama. it was presiden mubarak's fst visit to washingto inive years after cooli in u.s. lations during the bush administration. the trip comes as the oba administrations deeply involvedn trying toreak a dead locke in middle et peace tas. itants israel to halt

settlement activits and is askingrab leaders toake concessions to me the pross forward. the two presidents ske after the meeting this afternoon. >> ( tnslated ): we needto move to e final stus level and i have contaed the israel and they said perhaps we can talk abouthe temporary soluon or perhaps a final status, but i tol them no, forget about the temporary solution and forget about temporary borders. that's why i came today to talk to president obamand to see that if we me forward on is issue, i will give more hope d more confidence tohe people about this iss. >> one of the things that you discover i studyin history and being a part of politics is just because someing mas nse doesn't an it happens. and we are going to have to work veryard and ultimately that's going to have to be some coageous leadershipot only

from the palestinians andhe israis but also from the other arab states to support this effort >> rose:oining me now miche dunnf the carnegie endment r internation peace and steven cook. thank you for coming let me start with you, michele. tell me what came out ofhis, if anything, mubak, oba, first visit. what do each side he to get out ofhis? >> well mubar was really eager to reestablish for all to see the fact that he's back in the good graces ofin and of the white house. >> rose: and at he's healy and moving. >> that's true. ani think he got that out of his vit. he also reall played up the fact that before the visit he wanted tget in his thoughts to presidenobamaefore obama kes any kind of an announcement of se sort of a peace initiativ and so i dot think that president mubak reallybrought

anythingew as far as i've heard in termsf ideas, but he's really trying to press obama, i think, to b very forcul in this initiative an inffect to try t imse some kind of a solution on the region. >> a the egyptians successful at a in trying toring together fah and hamas? >> they've been working at this for a couple of years now. they haven't been successful. they're launching a w shuttle diplomacy effort now instead of convening the tw factionsin cairo whichhey've been doing for nths and months. but i have toay, frankly, i ink this is a very difficult thing to do. an i'mot that optimistic that the egyians are going t be able to pullit togethernless there's some big development in the rger pture that would reallymotivate the palestinians to pull themselves togethe >> so what's in i r washington. >> well, what'sin it fo washington is essentiallyrying enlist e egyptians in the wider world in helping to foste environment for peace.

>> rose: but aren'tthey on board? >> well, they are on board but the conversation has sfted in washington from pressure on the israelis regarding setement construction to what e the ars going to give back for thisalting of settlemt constrtion. >> rose: aleast a gesture of some kd. >> at leasa gesture of some sort to the raeli people that will make the israelis feel more comfortable about settlement freeze. the ars onrinciple state "look, the egyptians have a peace treaty, they engage in security cperation with the israelis, what more can they possib do given the situaon inh knd the gaza strip?" the sdis, the other bi arab heavyweit respondents say, lo, we have tabledhe arab initiative, it haseen on the table since prince, 2002. that offers israel normal relations once tre's a deal between the israelis and t paleinians. so the ab world isn't inclid to give president obama that gesture that he's been seeng create this environment.

>> rose: now what gesture would say to thebama administration they're trying? well, i think that if president murak d agreed to go back to arab leaders as a leader in the arab arena and try to push this process forward and if president mubarakimself has reed to do something. as iaid, nobody the region is inclined to do the kinds of ings. there's en ideas that have been floated allowing the iselis civilian airliners access to saudi airspace, returning arab trade representatives to tel aviv and so on and so fth. but the arab world believes they've be there and theve donehat. they did that in the 1990s and we're in a worse situation than we werback in the 1990s. so they're not going to give sothing for essenally what they see as nothing. >> ros nothing inerms of right to returand some modificationf that so that it's more ceptable to the israelis? >> precise. this... the whole ia of a geste from the arab world is to make the israelis fl more

comftable about these very hard decions that are ing to come, whether it's settlement freeze, borrs, refugees, the diosition of jerusalem and so on and so forth but, again, the arab wld sees... believes that the have ne as far as they could possibly go. just because they're authoritarian regis doesn't meanublic opinion doesn't cot in these places and they don't believe that they hav... thr political systems ha the caring carrying cacity to do much me than they've alrdy done. >> rose:hey're trying hard, are they not, with general suliman meeting withhe israelis incding.ks there talkim d hamas and... >> yes, ere's been active diplomatic effort at general suliman, the direcr of inteigence, in egypt has bee in charge of. the have been many rounds of talks inairo. the egyptians eventried imposi deadlines an they found it just didn't work. the two paleinian parties-- hamas d fatah-- are prey far apart,on't right now have a

lot of motivation come back together. >> ros the central criticism of egypthe nature of the government and theature of mubarak'regime, oris it something se? >> wel if you meanhe central criticism insi egypt itself ong egyptians, yes, would be the... that would be the ft that.... >> rose: it's an autocratic regi? >> an autratic regime, there's many hun rights abusesnd generally sortf a poor quality of gernance. things d't run well. educatnal services, health rvices, etc., are poor. and egyptians lookat their couny and other countries like them and they see that other countriehave progressed much further in terms of economic development,olitical development, man rights and so forth. an shere definitely is a see in egyptthat the country has stagnated. >> but i there som change in terms of entrepreurial activity and tt kind of thi? because there has been some influx of new an younger people

in the n.d.p. undermubarak. there has been a serious ogram of economic reform. >> rose: right. >> over about the last four years. rose: not polical, economic. this is structuraleconomic reform and it' very good in its own way. i an, the bankg sector, they've done a lot of things to attract investment and they've been successful in tt. the problem with thiss this kindf economic reform tes years in order for the benefits to truck downnd actually bring abouan improved stanrd of living f the population and they're far from that at this point. >>nd, in fact, there are strikes today in t industrial ceer. people whore protesting thrwageg conditio, lack of representation on state-sponsored unions. so essentially the macroonomic picture of egyptooks good over the course o the lt couple years,ut esntially they've impovredhe country to g there. >> rose:hat brings me to succession. when i was in egypt last week, that'sll they talk abo.

>> succession the megaissue now. >> every cafe, eve friend, everody. >> rose: the is this vy prolonged transition going on. >> rose: what do youhink is the reality of succeion? >> i think the reali right now is that psident mubar is reluctant to leave office himself. he's giving inditions that he may well run again eve two years from now when he's 83 a has been i power for 30 years. >> rose: his answer to m was repeatly "i have two yea to decide." >> yes, yes. but there have been few other indicatis that perhaps if his healthermits that he would even b thinking of running again at this poin i think the succsion is they don't el it's fully arrged. but early his son has been positioned in every way through the constition, through the ruling pty, tough new laws that he been passed and so forth to be the logical candidate fothe ruling party put up in presidential elections afterpresident

murak lis. at's not the only psibility for succsion. there's still e possibility of someone from the military or intelligce stepping in, b there has definitelbeen a largsort of fmework set up for guamel mubarak to succeed. >> rose: and no one will succeed without the approval of the military? >>hat's correct. >> i think it's an informal requirement for egyptian presidents all military officers. >> rose: all the continuinof an idea. >> exactly. exactly. d there have been indications over the course of the last uple years that gam mubarak, o does not have a military bacd, has been seeking to p relations and cultite military oicers so tha he ensure at at crucial moment of a transition he will he the support of the officer corps. we, of coue, don know whether he's been successful a that. but i tnk as michelle pnted t, the table has essentially been set. if thereas a nomination ocess, g, amel marak would

be thenly one who t natiol democratic party could nomate for the posion orogically nominate f the sition. >> rose: i wt both of y to sum uphe signifance, the importance in terms of the future of the middle eas of egypt. >> egypt is t lgest arab country. one out of ery four arabs is egyptian. and what happens in egypt coun tremendously for the rest of the arab world and the rest the arab world, althoug egypt is not the only cntry with education the way it used to be, it's still tremendoly important. d so, you know, whether or not there will be some sort of reform, so sort of move toward a more open political stem and so forth i egypt is hugely important for the rest o the region. >> i would agree 100%. egypt is a bellwether of the region. if tre's some sort of democratic break throu in egypt, it will affec the rest of the region t the reverse is also the case. anarrower dictatorsp will affect theest of the region. we shouldn' lose sight of the fact with all of e emasis

ond is, pakist, iraq, ypt is the intellectual center of transnatnal jihadism. it springs fro there. yes,sama bin laden is saudi, ayman al-zawahiri is egyptian and al qaeda is essentially an egyptian organization. so this is a very important country has tremendous opportunity but also can bvery scary. >> re: deep roots in everything ara >> yes. absolutely they really do. i mean, even e oppotion groups and so forth we've seep spring up in egypt inspire copycats where in the arab worl. used t the egyptian governme under nasser that led. w it's t so much the egyptian goverent but still the egyptn people and the things that they do, the new egyptianedia and so fort inire imitation elwhere in the arab world. >> rose: >> the way in which thunited states has cultural hodge gemini in the world, egypt has it in

the region. if you're in moroccoand you're spking egyptian arabic, they say so you're speaking must bey arabic. that's why it's importt. i was i kuwait on iraq's first electionsn wife the, kuwais said "th is great for iraq but if ithappened in egypt, it would shakthe region." >> rose: fee venn ck, thank you. >>hank you. >> rose: i'm in washington, d.c. with zhou wenzhong. he has served as china's ambassador to thunited states since 200 he is a ke figure in which what some call the mtmportant bilaral relationship in the world. he works on a rangeof issues important to both countries, including ade, iwan, north korea, climate change,nd the economy. as the economiccrisis has spread, he has said that chi and the united stes now share a grear responsibility for global stabili and peace. i am pleased to have t

ambassador on th program for e first time. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: you he said. you have said this is e most importt bilateral retionship the rld. what makes i s >> i'm not the only o who is saying this, charl. therare other people who have said the mehing. i think it's true that the relationship that china and the united states have assed great global significance. china is the largeeveloping couny, the u.s. being the largest developed cntry. if we couldork togeth ande can soe my global issues. and the glal sues need glal solutions. so if we can work gether, it will beeasier for these solutions to be worked out. >> rose:et's walk through those issue >> yeah. >>ose: climatehange is one big issue. >> right. >> rose: our secretary ofstate oke to that when sheasn china. what proess are we makinand what are the difficults that

face the two cntries because they are at different stages in their development. >>here will be a copenhagen conference and china takes ry positive attitude to the conferen and w hopehe conference will be a success and i think the key to thatis for all th members of thenited nations at work together and also to carry out negotiations according to... in accordance with theandate of the bali road m. d basically there ar several things. one is developed countries shou take the lead in reducing the emissns of carbon dioxide and also developed countries i hope wil do more in proving technology and funding to developing countries in other wor, to help them to achieve the ruction.

and, of course, developing countries should dotheir part as well. with the framework of sustainable developmen >> rose: is it impossibleor china mtcertain emissions standards withoutestraining its econic developnt? >> i think we are doi what we should do. one of the tngs we have enacted a numbe of laws suc as energy savict and renewable energy resoues act an also tional programs forg with climate cnge. and we have set a goal voluarily. that i that thechange in 201 will reduce the eney inteity by 0%. that is the consumption of energy b20%. and so between 2005 and008 i

think we have consumed about 300 million tons of cl... no, less and so if you transform tt to carbon dioxid, that is have redud emissions of about one billion tons of rbon diide and i think we'll continue to do that. so accordinto the speal envoyfor climatehange, china ll annoyance nouns a time for the peek. >>ose: hashina made a commitmento be the wor's leader in dealing with clima ange, with environmental questions in developing technology, in makin national moves that willhow the world what'spossible and put china in an enviab position in the fure? >> chinaan't do the job by itselfjust by itself. i think we need work together.

everyone. doing its par includinchina. then i think the job c be done >> rose:ut the poi is t deeper one in a sense. friend tom freedman has ised this questio whoever tuz the most i terms of developing the technology for dealing with these envonmental qutions, the rest of the world ll have to beat. >> but.... >> rose: a path to their dostep. >> right. becauschina is a country with the laest popation. but in per capita, china is not really the largest emitter. >> rose: right. d historically,s been develong and grong very fast, just over the last 30 years. i think we st have historical sense and also the per capita factorlements shoulde.... >> rose: chinahould be judged by differe staards than the developed wod?

>> not dferent standds. let me put it this way. the. according to the kyoto accord and alsohe u.n. framewor agreement, the principle has been let out that is common but differentiated responsibility. and the developed countries... now, bear in mind the levelf the developmt and the amount of energ consumed in the past should te the leadin reducing the emission of carbon dioxide another greenuse gas. that's what has been said. >> rose: along that line, ucation. yes. >> rose: what is the ina commitment to higheducation? you dia survey of great universities and you want china be on that survey. >> china, of course, needs to...

it needs to hav more pple proper educated. and right w whawe have i citi is nine year education. in the count side it's on six years compulsory education. so we have a longay to go. and i think oy about, you know ybe more than 0% of the high school graates can me on 20%. and...but of course among l... among the high schl graduates, a lotf them have come this wa >> ros come to the united states >> come to the uted states. :rt me if i'm wrong. the larges exchae students between the uned states wit china ishe united ates. we have 20,0 n studying i china. >> we have about 90,000. >> re: you have 90,000 in america? >> studying in the united states on different campuses, yes. >> rose: is the a... tl me how you're emphasizing

education. >> educaon, we have a licy that's actlly a national strategy. that is to devop counies throug education with sence and technology. this is t idea of fundment policy of cha. so that's why the government has t so much emphasis on education. the government ha increased its put in... that is to say h increasedhe governmen expensesor education it's taking a larger share in terms of the budget of the country. and al vis-a-vishe g.d.p. >> rose: when you look the united states, what isit about the unit states and its gwth and development to its potion in the world today that you say we want to emulate that. we want to copy that. we want to be as good as they arat that. >> yea i think what the reform

and opening up is demanding is that wneed to learn from others, atever that is good for china. so i think that's what were... we havbeen trying to since the beginning o the reform program in 1978. so that is what wve been doing. >> ros so everywhere you look around the world, if somebody's doing something that wou be a benefit to cna, you say bri it to chin >> right, right. including the ited states. >> rose: what is i about the united states,hen? >> i thi you have very developesciencend technology and the manement skill and the very enterprising ntality, very creative in the... in work. >> rose: it's an ieresting id. it used to be said-- and less so now-- that one difference i america over the last 15 20 years or longer was that there

was a creativity he, an innovation herthat wasn't necessarily at that time orn history esent in chi. is that true? do you think? >> you mean.... >> rose somehowhere were factors th led to a societ beinmore creative here. >> part of the... part of the. education has somethg to do with... it h something todo wi education. has something to do with tradition. it has something too with the composition of the populatio. united states is a country of immigrants and peoe very... art people from all cners of the world thatome to the united states and they're living this cntry and so i think they have taken thebest traditis

from all... everywhere tohe united stes. >> rose: what should we learn from you? >> china...onfusion philoshy being a part of traditn i china... cfucius philosophy, beg a part of tradition in china, we put more empsis on the role of the llect i rather than veg. we tend to emphasizore for the role o the collective rather than the le of th individual. so hab that's the difference. each has its merit. so maybe we shod learn from each oer on that. >> rose: well, somegue in t economic sphe you've been enormously successful becaus in part, you had an economy that could be influenced by a smaller groupf people that a democracy did not have the advantage of doing.

you could crea astimulus program of $572illion andake it work tomorrow. that theature of... >> yea that's the merit of the kind of system whave. but, of course, weave also put emphasis on the.. the decion-making process. that has s has to be, you kw, democratic. in otherords, you need to list to all sidesot just... fwoub dangerous it' one m listening.. >> rose: listeto all sides befo you make the decision. >> right, rht. ye >>ose: what impactas the opening of china certainl to reign business but a more open society done to china? how has it changed china? >> open society. think reform an opening up programs has helped china to

chart a new road. that have iso build china, build sociali accordingo chinese aracteristics. that is to say we... we can't just develop china with on model in mind. i think no... one modelthat could fit for china. inther words, while develing the economy, while developing the democcy we should bear in mind the conditis in china. we should try to find a solution which is best for chinese conditions so th's what we're trying to do and we' already found that role. >> rose: has t influx of commerce and other pgrams led to a more liberal openhina?

>>py will compa china tod to that 30,0 years ago. i think it's much moreopen. china used to be a very closed society and, of crse, one thing we have discovereds that chin cannot shut its doors on others iyou want toevelop china into a modern country. so i think that's very importanthing we have lrned. >> rose: now, you he witnessed all ofhat with deng xioping when he me to the united states. >> i was here. i w at the office but i tended some of the tivities. >> rose: now, what was i about him thatnabled him to sort of signal the fure for cna? >> hs a very broad-minded and far-sighted leader. and he lod china and the only

thing he wants to do is to make his dream come true. that is china is t become a strongountry one day in the world. and he is st of unconventional. he has courage to do away with theraditions. some of th are not good for china. and it is no easy for him to be that couraous considering the conditions at that tim that exisd in china. so he's a very courageous person with a good command of the... of changes which are ting place in the world. so i think he has very gd gras of theituation, the developments arounthe worl

he knows china at that time if we do n change china will lag behind. and the only way out for china to rega its vitalityis to introduce reform. >> rose: s what's the reform movement i china today how would you define i >> reform, ihink... of course we will continue to carry out the reform program. thgoal, of course, is clear, that is t devel china to a modernized country. d economic reforme're still the process of that. >> rose: wre is it going. >> ecomic reform, i think... what whave is a system ereby there a the different ownerships exist, co-exist, and

we... the chinese... the kind of ecomy we have in china is different om what you have here, it's also very different from what china had before 1978. so it's...some people said before that itas not possibl r weo have a role of tha pe but we have succeeded so far. so tt is to say it's a combation, it's combition. and then, of course, political reform. it's the kindof political system which would be st suited for chinese conditions. and en there will be oer reforms. >> rose: and what is best suited for cnese conditions mean? >> i think first of allo guarantee that people will be able to participate in the political process as mh as they can. but e question is h could

that bbrought about? china is a big country with 1.3 billion people andhe level of education is still not high and even there are peoe who are stil illiterate. so under these circutances, how to make sure that people will be ableo pticipate in the political process. we are experimentin with th..tf ete villag level d we are... we have the kind of political system we have international people's congress system and we als have a chinese pple's political consultive conference. so t chine people's politica consultive the nference has made it possible for pele from all walks of life to be partf the political process. to particite in the discussion of the major decisions. so these a the nd of reform

are rrying out in china. >> rose: wha do you fear the st? when i say "you," i mean the highest leve of chines govement. what conces you the most concerns. of course i think the leaders have a lot to be concerd about because china such a big country with such a big population in the world and the population is aging very fast before chi has become very prospero and we don't haveet a nationwide social secury syem, although we ar trying to putogether a social security system. we don't yete a natnal health care system thats good and to make sureevery people when he sick heill be taken good care of. so ihink there are so many things out there crying out to

be done. so i thi the biggest concern is that they wt to make sur every citizen in china wl be properly taken care of. i know they wi have ual rights to education,to jobs, to a decent level of life stanrds. >> rose: and probably-- and you correct me if i wrong it would not be attainable ifou hadn't made the shift at you have made in your economic attide towards the market >> yeah, that's true. that'srue. yeah. i think thas very cle. ife do not carry ou reform therwill be no way o. he said that at the begiing of th reform program. >> rose:ho said that? >>eng xiaoping he said ere would beoy out. >> rose: here is "theonec ist" magazine. "asia'sstonishing rebound when they sa that ty're

talking about china to a large degr. whatas happene since the global economic crisis in chi and howessential is that to ur own ambion? >> chinaas hit very hard. foreign trade dropped by some 0%. and...0%. anthe g.d.p. dropped to 6.1% in t first quarter a it sort of managed to do bettern the second quarter so on the whole for theirst lf of the year 's 7.1%. it's much lowerhan the average growth rate fo thelast 30 years. so chinaas hit parcularly fosome of the region along the coast. for instance, shanghai, t first quarter, the g.d.p. growth is oy 3%. around the river it's very bad, many factories collapsed and

manyeople lost job, about 20 million migrant worrs went back to their me. so... but the governmt took action immediately and came up with stimulus pacge and so since th we see veryradual imovement in the pformance of oureconomy. >> rose: are you developing a consumer dema? >> that's what we hope, yeah. an because.... rose: so you won'tave to depe on expos. >> right, right. obviously we nee to chae the growth model. it ud to be exporriented and now, you know, after the financial crisis, the consumptio sideill not be ther the amount oconsumption will not be there >> ros so you have toave a new model, economic model that

does not depen on a global demand for china products. >> in the long r. rose: in the lo run. >> yes. >> rose: and therefore you have to create tt demand within your own society. >> but it willake some time. >>ose: what's "time"? what's the time fme? 20 years? years. >> ion't know. i dot know whether we have that kind of time frame. but it wil take time. you know, t effort to delop nationwid social security program,he effort to delop a nationwide health care system is part of that efforto develop more mestic csumption. >> rose: and it's going... you can see it's beginning to te root. >> yesyes. i think so. yes. unle people aree of sort of that... when they are sick they will be taken care of. when they are unemployed there n be... they willbe taken care of. people will have to say.

they want to save mo. >> rose: savinhas not been a probm. >> saving is n aroblem. (laughs) but, you know.... >> rose:pending has been the problem. >> youant people to spend more. so you wt peopleto sort of.... rose: spending w o problem. (laughs) saving was our problem,spending was our... >> now savg here sin creasing. >> rose: exactly. so there's all kinds of speculation. everybody talks about thi relationsh between the united states and china where you export, we import. you save we spend. we jus.. everything works out fine. when you are a lender and we are a borrower. that's been the classic relationshiphat has made your economy gw and enabled us to have a take care of a current counts deficit. at's thereality. will that change? >> i think it wl change because obviously the growth model here will change.

the amnt of consumption will nobe out there. people will save more. if is happening and it will continue, i think. but the fundamental queion here, i think, is the development sue. so we need to pay more attention to the developme issue. development forll the developing countries. so if t... the iue of devepment has been given more attention fchltd i more help is oviding to theeveloping country and en the consution ll... there will be the consumption. the consumpon for all the developing countries put gether will increase. rose: what they worry about is that you're going to stop buying our treasuries. you're goingop buying our debt >> i think thequestion has been put to both the vice emier and also the cnselor. >> rose: i w here, yes. >> right.

think they have answered the question. >> ros so repeat it for the auence. >> i think chinaill have to inve somewhere. >> rose: (laughs) that's true. >> if the conditions are good-- and i think china will inve. so of coursee're concerned about the safy. rose: are you concern about the american economy? when you look at the amerin econom are you saying "wait a minute." >> i think we wishou succe. we hope u will do better. >> rose: i hearou. i hear you wishing, i hear you hoping. tell me what y expect. >> i think it's improving. >> rose: the u.s. economy? >> think so, yes. that what i kept hearing from many specialists. >> rose: at th security and econom dialogue and elsewhe. >> elsewhere, yes. >> rose: what y're hearing is that america's economy, while china... chi's rebounding. many people bieve that in the urth quart torre session will sort of gradually.... >> rose: in arica or aroun the world? >> i america. >> rose: the recession wl...

it will wor out of recession in thfourth quarter. t the question is, you know, in theears that will follow, the growth will be slow. >> re: let me ggest what think you're saying. we will only invest in america as long as we think there's no tter investnt. if at any time there's a better place fochina to put its money, that's whe we're going. >> but i think for a lg time to come will be difficul to find that place. what do you ink? >> rose: i'm asking you! (laughs) >> because it' a global financial crisis it's not just a financial crisis here. (laughs) >> rose: so you look around toda you can't see anywhere tter to put your money than america. >> that's why i don't have... ose to $800 billion. >> rose: iyou would sta dumping your investment in america, i would wreak havoc on oueconomic system. >> n we're not.... >> rose: but that's not in your interest. it would not be in our interest, it would not be in

your interes it would not be in the intest of the world. >> rose: up soor the me being china's ambition is create some demandocally... domestic demand to relieve some of the pressure oits exrts, hope thatmerica's economy continus to grow sot's a good investment for it to invest its money. >> and more tention will be given to developingissue for deloping countries. >> rose: meaninghat you are looking to africa to invest in natural resources >> no, tt's for everyone who are able to be o help. >> rose: okay. ll me what you mea, then. >> i think w can work tether. that has been advocated by present of theorld bank and the duty secretary. >> rose: rert zoellk. that china bece a stakeholder was his famous refrain. and we'll rk together in africa. i think that's what we can do.

we can at least try to identify projects, pgrams where we could workogether. >> rose: as you know, u know neil ferguso is a harvard profesr. he coined e term "chimerica which was the tion of the two giants and how much impac th had on the world economy. he think it's inevitle that china and the ited states will collide. that cna as its gets more powerful andigger andoes better economically and expands it military will end up in a collision withamerica. >> i don't think so: rst of all, thers a lgay for us to...e we become.. >> rose: that powerful. become aodernized untry. a country with moderzation. if you go to the terior pro vipss, you'll fd that the level of development is very low.

so that's cna. that's the current status of china. >> ros so you've got yr work cut out for you. >> yes. so it will take generations, yes to cnge that. so i think weave aong way to go. >> rose: before you even thk about anything y want to get your house in order, take care of your people. >> right. alsoe have that china's development will be peaceful and china's developmen is opportity for everyone, including the united states. china's development should not be viewed as a threat. we don't wanto be a that. we want to live in peace wit everyone. >> rose: the word you use often is "harmony." >> yeah, that's right. harmony ishe center of chinese philosophy, i think, yeah. >> rose: what does it mean >> harmony meaning at home, inside family sor of harmony with membe, membe of the

family d in the society harmony, t set of les and also between different set of social groups and in the world rmony meang peace a working tother. >> rose: that's the goal? >> yea that's the goal. >> rose: let's talk about me places around the rld. darfur. >> yeah. rose: betteroday? china and e united states are working ... ihink weave kept very close convertions with one other about darfur. >>ose: what do y differ about on darfur? >> i think we are the same goal i think the al is the se. >> rose: but you ha different econom stakesn sudan? >> not really. i thi actually... some the otr countries are buying much moreil than chi. but cha is singled out for one reason or another.

i think we think there arewo tracks, one issort of peacekeeping a its political settlement and we thin we need tomake even prress on the two tracs inarfur. and with regard to political settlement, i think we hop the ited states and some ofthe other countries, developed countrie will urge se of the rebel groups to participate in the political settlement. >> ro: how about nor korea? >> north korea. i think now the position of t six parties... i mn the five countries in tsix party talks very clear you hope north korea would agree to come back to the six party talks sn. and weope they will reaif you remeer their commitmento e denuclearizaon of the

peninsa. >> rose: and if ty don't? >> i he they will. >> rose: (laughs) yes, i know. >> i hope they will. and so i think, y know, we are reassessing the situion. >> rose: reassesng? >> reassessi the situation, right? >> rose: right. >> becausehere have been some changes. some few develments. >>ose: meaning,hat? e president... former present clinton's trip? or not something else? >> they indicatedhey want to talk to you. they wanted to talk to the unit states. >>ose: what was the indication of that? >> thk that means they reed to come bkto talks, but not theix party talks. the lks rather than talks with you. >> rose: would china welcome that? >> think we welcome the bilateral contacts betwe the united states annorth korea. but we also think the sixarty

talks remainhe useful mechanism for settling e north korea nuclear issu >> rose: do yohave iluence with iran? >> influen. i think you also have influenc other countries inhe west hav eir influence. each has its own influence, i think. and we all l do our part being, you know, member ofhe p 5 plus one newspaper do you think that ira can be convinced? >> i think they are rea to talk to the west about the nuearssue. i think this i a new devepment. >> rose: a how shouldthe west respon >> w need to find out what they mean by that becau before the there is sort of a propol from p5 plus 1,ight? >> rose: right. >> and does that mean they are reonding to that propol or

they... so i thi we need to find out wha they meanby that. >> rose: where ee can china and the unitedtates work together for a result that wi benefit the wor. >> i think we need to d something about that with you also. >> rose: what about w.t.o.. with >>w.t.o.... i thinkree trade is good a u.s. has benefitdd great de from free trade. china has benefit add grt deal from tde. and, of course, i understand some people want e rules to be enforced me vigorously here in this country. but i hopthey would realize trade protectionism is not good for everyone it's not good for you, not good for ur partns. so i hopehey would take a very clear posion against trade protectionism. >> rose: you want this admistration not to slide into otectionism?

>> i think they've said tt they are ainst the tde protectionism. we hope we' see action. >> rose: are y in the end still good abo the possibilitie you know... >> what possibilitys rose: that the united stas and china can a differee and that the process under way der a new administration in waington? >> working togetr with others. because there e other parties. ina, the united states, ife work togher then mbe more... hers will be more sor of prepared to join. >> rose: everybody alws talks about this, as you well kno, and you've awered this question a lot and isk it again in the context of this dialogue. question of human rights and how do you satisfy a world that

there is progress? >> human rights... cna has made a lotf progress as far as human rits are concerned and in the.. our conibution for the first time we have included provions, a new pvision that we're respectuman rights and protect human rights and we ve participated...succeeded many intertional agreements concerning humanights. and we are developing the socialistemocracy in china so to guaraeehat peopl willeople wl to participatein this decision-making procs and w are trying very hd toake re that are the decisionaking process will be more transparent, will be unr

survision, and i think the vernment at all levels y attention to the welfare of the people regarding the befits... e interests of the pple, the startingoint for thei work. so i think we are... we ve ma a lot of progress. if you go to chinand if you have been to cna years ago you will think... you would come to the conclusion at things are improving. it's a much re open society. >> rose: censorship. >> censorship. censorip. >> rose: the fear of sort of worldwid dialogu and internet anopinions that might not... th might you believe incite... >> i think it's kindf nagement. the regation... it's regulated d it is true everywhere.

re it'sanaged. there are laws whic sort of stipulate that a certain content is not fit. rose: but this is more than pornography. we're not talking about pornography. that's car. we'rtalking about political opinions. >>political opinions. actually, ere are more sucribers in china. and ma people have their own blogs in china. if more than0 million people have blo. 300 million people. so if youog on you will find that theare very open. they are saying everying. >> rose: a right. so in the end you're optimistic? >> yeah, i think.. i think if yogo to china and ask pple the street, you'll find there the great ma are very timistic about their fure. >> rose: a they're optistic about e future of china's role the word? >> yeah, think so. >> ros and they're opmistic out... >> aut their own ture.

rose:... thr ownuture. their ecomic well-being. their economic secuty? their peonal security? >> right. cause life is security r the majority of team t people i terms of income, in terms of living condions, in tes of eir access to t outside world. it has improved a great deal. >> rose:ell, clearly. moreeople have come out of povertyin chinan the last. >> 30 ars. snoup... 30 yes, than any tim in t history of t world. >> that's true, yes. >> rose: thank you very coming. >> thank you, thank yo very much. >> rose: pleasure to ha you. >> my pleure. captioning sponsoredy rose commucations captiod by media acss group at wgbh access.wgbh.org