microphone check. tavis: od evening. miley. tonight, ilooked at regina and polical life, ted kennedy. i will be joined by two peop who worked with him fomany years, john lewis and veteran washington insider vernon ordan. we will so hearrom historian douglas brinkley. we're glad you joineus. remembering ted kennedy,oming up rig now. >> there areo many things that wal-mart is looking forwarto

doing, like heing people live tter. but mostly, we' helping build stronger communits and relationshs. with your hel the best is yt to come. nationwide insurance proudly suppts "tavis smiley." tavis a nationwide,orking together to improveinancial literacy and the onomic empowerme that comes with it. >> ♪ nationwid isn your side ♪ >> and by contribuons to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [caponing made possible by kcet public televion] tav: couple of quick prograing notes. due to thereaking news of senat kennedy's sng, our conversation witc.e.o. ron

williams wll air tomorrow night. nd he is aritical voice and alth care debate, opposed t the public option. he will explain. that full conveation airs tomorw night on this program. also on the end the program, edrd brooke and african- american republican who served alongside ted kennedy in the u.s. sete. tonight, i am pleed to be join by congressman john lewis, a civirights pioneer and longtime georg ngressman to knew a worked th senator kennedy for many years. congressman lewis, ne to have youon the program, sir. >> am delighted and pase to be with u tonight. tavis: it i suc an hon to have you won i wanted to have you won for a umber of reaso, not the least of which was your numr of years working th senator kennedy and with dr. king.

also wanted to have you want becau youere the recipient of the john f. kennedy prole inourage litime achievement ard presented to you in 2001, by senor kennedy. take meack to thetime that senato kennedy bestow that prestigious award on you, sir. >> i wi never fget the occasion when senator kendy along th his knees, caroline kennedy, preseed me withe kennedy profile in courage lifetime achievemt award. it was a woerful evening. he was very happy and ver pleased presenting made the award. i have known senator kennedy for years. i got to know his two brothers, president kennedy and robert kenny. to spend that time with him and be hored by him and by his

family, it was unbelievab to be there wit him with my family. he waa one-of-a-kind, tavis. he was o shepard, r champion. he spokep and he spoke out for those who have been left out and left behind. he was a champion of civil rits, votingrightsand i feel rylessed that i had opportunity to get to kn h and workith him for my years. wh i got to t hous we extend the ving rights act, improd to civil-rights legislation. we got to do it. we must doit, over and over he would say, and we will do it. it tavistavi you said it he wasr

shepherd and champion. what was it about the relationship between the kennedys and black amecans? what was it aut the relationsh between the nnedys and black folks that ade for ch a special bond? >> there was something about the kennedy family. when president kennedy and ladybird knedy, a it was passed on to senator kennedy. there was this feeling that these men would do thright thing. that ty would be our champions, that they would look out for the cause of civil rights and social justice. in congrs, the first major speech that senar kennedy made wasn the 1964 civil ights act.

he did not just state and bton or washington. heraveled to missisppi, lanta, gorgia. he visited not just thafrican- america community but he went to the southwest ad visited with mrant workers. tavis: whatou mak of the fact there was the specialond between ted kennedy and his others and africaamericans? knowing your hiory, here you ara poor country boy from alabama, and there are aot of othe country black folk back in the y or be funded byhese rich white guys from massachusetts. -- who were defrded by these rich white guys from massachusetts. how was that? -- to work beiended by these rich ite guys from massachusetts how was that? >> it may have appeared be strange, ty could travel to e delta missiippi and georgia you cou see a picre,

especiallyfter the assassinion of dr. king and john knedy, the would bea picture of jn f. kennedy, rert kennedy, martinuther king jr., and picture jesus. vis: i haveome church fans in my personal collection evybody who would go to ts churches would seehose pictures on tho fans. i was thought itwas azing that it wld be in churches all acrs america. >> have some of those al. somehow, in some way,hese men gave peop a sense of hope in a me of hopelessness. tavis: you were there, one of the foot soldiers with dr. king. we kw that you were bean and almost kild on a number of locations. yowere the youngest person to spe atthe march on washingn on that day where king gave the "i have a dream"

speech. your resume is intact and regard your duty and servic on the civil rights front. because you were there, you were there and dr. king was not alwaysappy with john kennedy or bobby kennedy. edward kennedy seemed to te a differenttact. what you make that? >> what do you makef that? >> we were not always hap with the president of -- e position of president kennedy or robert kennedut along came brother teddy knedy, who bitterly as setor thr everythi that he had, his soul, his heart,his gutsnto supporting rong supports legislation and to be a voice. i think he learned from his brothershat we could do better, and he wanted to eat -- one of the strongest piecef civil rights legislationnd the strgest possible flooding

rights act in 1965. --the strongest possible voing rights act in 1965. tavis: do you thi he became strger on these issu becaus he knew the flings and shortcomings of h brothers? >> ihink he became stronger because he knew in h soul, in his heart that we can be stronger,e can be better. he used to use the term, the phrase, "is the right thg to , and we must do with." it was part of his fth, part of his upbringing to do e right thing, and care for the least among us. he felt that america could never be what americahouldbe until we completed the civirights revolution in the 1960's. tavis a wanted play a clip from

senatorennedy onthis program -- i want to play a clip from nator kenned talking about brown vs. the board of education. >> when you think of that ce, you thinkf the maa cardoza for blk americans -- the magna carta for black americans and all americans. it opened up the civil-right movementf 1964, the public accommations, the nondiscrimination in emploent, the 1965 voting rhts act. i thnk the brown vs. bod of education was the dcision that rely set the stage it was dr. king it was th iritual -- it was dr. king who was the spiritual leer of the movement, but browvs. board of education opened that way. tavis: education is one of those ways that we appreciateenator kennedy for bng stalwt on, yes?

>> senator kennedy h a passion for equal education for all of our children i remeer so well when that decision came down in 1964, -- one that in 1954, iwas 14 yes old. i thought i would get to ride on a better hool bus. innever happened for me. i continuedo attend overcrowded, poorly suprted, segregatedchools. but kennedy, was our champion with education for all children. lt that every child should reive the best possible ecation. tavis: i mentioned that we wi speak with edward burke, former senatofrom massachuset who served aloside senator kennedy. my question is whethe or not you are concerned that the abnce of a on liksenator

kennedy ans there is going to be a deficit i the senate? are you coerned about ho will raise these issu in the u.s. sena? i am deeply concern with what ha the likeness of ted kennedy in the senate -- i am deeply concerned that we wl not have the likeness of ted kennedy in the senate. we may not have another person like senator kennedy in o lifetime. hope i am wrong. but i dinot think there is anyone who can fill the shoes o senator kenne. he wasne of a knd. taviongressman john lewis, i amlways hored to have you on the program and share your inshts. thank you again for yo love and service to our community and think for seri sharing your thoughts about your friend ted kennedy. thank you very much. tavis: earlier today, spoke

with vern jordan out the passing of senar kennedy. i appreciate th opportunityo talk to you toy. >> i am happy to tk to you, though it is a sad moment i america. tis: let me ask you abut yourong-term friendship and relationship with senator kennedy. all know thatfor a number of years tt you were head of the national urbaneague. i also imagine you knew him long before then. >> i aually met senator nnedy in 168, wh his brother robert who was pursuing the democraticomination for presidency askede to have a coversation with kennedy about direct involvement on m part in the robertennedy campaign. i had a long session -- with te

kennedybout that. made the dision to continue stewardship at the voter education project. tavis:ou turned down bobby kennedy? >> yes, i did, 1968. tavis: for all the stories we have heard over th years ad the last hour since he passed away, we heard aout what they did great negotiator he was. how did it ted kennedy take that ou were telling him that you are going to pass? >> gotver it. and we remained eat friends. you remember in 1980, when i was hot in fortwayne, one of the first visors to the intensive

care unit to see me when life was 1 foot in the grave an another on a bana peel teddy kennedy came to fortayne to see abt his friendvernon jordan in july of 1980, when i was still in the new york hospital recovering fro that, d nnedy was campaigning in th bronx. i heard it on e radio and saw it on tevision. before the afterno was over, unexpectedl hewas in room 1719 at new york hospital to visit and give comfort to his friend, vernon joan. he was incredibly compassion at -- compsionate when it came to his friends. he was one who was not only

sympathetic, but he wou stand by you and prompt you what -- and promptou up when you were leaving. i will never forget those hospital visits tavis: you referenced 1980. tha was the ar tha he decid to ru against jimmy carter. was tryingto wrest the demratic nomination from then- president jimmy carter. let me ask you specifically at kennedy didn that race. >> i think it created a kind of ambivalence. we had elected carter in976. the black vote me a huge difference in putng him in te white house, and i think there were some feelings about which

way to go, whher to stay with e incumbentr stay with kennedy. i forget at the breakdown was, bui was very much aware there was a sit. tavi w have heard t since his passingabout his strong and unequivocal record on cil ghts. let me ask you to properly contextualize where he stands, how the rates, juxtaposed against his brother? my read of it is john f. kennedy h the record, robert kenne got better over time before he di duri the civil rights er but edward kennedy was the best othe three. >> there is no questi about that. he had something to bld on. an he had with his brother the presidt did and his brother the attorney general and nator did, and built on it and he had launded work on ithan they did. -- and had longer toork on

it thanhey did. the president was in office not that long, and robert keedy was attorney general not vy ng and not very ng as senator, but teddy served almost 47 yars inhe united states senate, and could always count on him. he was there when we needed hi tavis: i wonder, verno jordan, now that we live in the most multi-ethnic ericans ever, now that we have an african-arican president, wonder wheer there will beanother senator like m in terms of fighting for the lea among us, the were disenfranchised. will we see another senator lik him? will history demand that wehave other senators like him, given that some believe now we doot need tedennedy and we ve in a post racial america? >> i think we havto he that we will not jt get one ted

kendy but that we will get0, 15, 20 ted kennedys to serven the houser the senate. is notioabout post racial, i am not sure that it is post racial. i am very pleased, obously, about the election o bara obama as present of the united states, but as -- t that does no mn the issue of race is nished,hat we he crossed the fish line. we need what teddy kennedy has gen us. we nd what he has left us. i hope that we will get many more like him. tavis: filly, for those who will take annterest in the nobility ofublic service, what is the abing lesson thate ought to take from the life and legacy of ted keedy? >> he showed us the wa

he was an exame, 4 glorious years in the united stes sene, and he served well,e served long we are the beneficiaries of tha service. tavi a great lder inis own right, vernon jordan, with his thoughts about edward kenndy o massachusetts. mr. jordan, thank you for the opportunity. >> any time, my friend. tavis: also, i spoke with douglabrinkley. your tughts on the life and legacy of ted knedy? >> this past year, he did an oral history prect in virgia which will be healthy -- which will be a help desk doars. ere will be a lot of new informationhere. this is a legislativeiant. people talk aot about john kennedy and bobby kenned ted kennedy fought for the -- fought

for the disenfranchised anthe poor and elderly. he has been pushing for universal health care since almost day one and the sene in 1962. he had the wind at his back pushingor voting rights,ivil rights. is unambiguous, a libal icon, american icon, international icon wh even went to south africa and snt tim with bish tutu in the hted days of apartheid and came back and announced the apartheid regime the. everything ted kennedy theread it the stp of caring about eople, and he is one of our greatolitical figures. tavis: as an historian, we have thse have been followed nversations about liralism, but it sms to me, the bance of his career, he never shied away from the "l" word,where others have. >> exactly right. bill clinton s trying to s

he was a new democrat a people started playing aund with the word progressi. he was a proud liberal. he thought it was part of th tradition otheodore roovelt 's new nationalism and fdr'new deal and lynn johnson and a great society. he was a proud liral, and no the liberalbacking both barac obama, they havelearned a lot from ted kennedy. president obama, wh we were hildren dung the cuban misle crisis, three-year-old, ted kennedy was ou there fighting my whole teenage years intoy 20's and 30's and 's. the great act of heroism wen he endorsed barack oba made such big difference, basically taking that and ndingt to bara obama, doi it inh caroline nnedy. i know that presiden obama is

sorelgoing to miss ted kennedy, but because he was health ca out warrior, -- health-care warrior, t because he alws gave president obama unvarnished advice. since chappaquiick, he was not trying to run for president,e was ting to help american peopleor perhaps is ethal lapsein his life. and he workedriple hard to ma for that, a the net effect of his life is really stunning. bill after bill, lawafter lw, ted kennedy stamp is on it. tavis: muffled convertion with inkley will air -- my full conversation with briley will air iday night. by last conversation with ted kennedy came last year. -- my last conversation with ted kennedy came la year. >> whave beenlessed as a family to lieven public

servicand also believe it and a political party i belve shared the ea that woodw wilson had, that a politil party has to snd for something. i believe at a politil party can be a inrument to make change, a that is why i a emocrat. but my parents and m brothers and sisters have ought their children ought to be involve to be engaged, to be part of e proce. to share whaoliver wendell holmes sd. tavis: their hr few pople -- there are few pople who have ffered the public sorrowhat senator keedy did, but he never bame bitterr jaded and became and remained beacon of hope incding the least among us. in a year when partisanship ruled the day, he wou reach across pay lines to ent some of theost important a lasting lgislation in all of u.s. hisry. ted kennedy will be buried at

arlington naonal cemery algside his brothers, john and obert. until nex time, good night from l.a.. -- until nt timegood night from l.a. as always, keep the fah. >> ahe said many times, from those he sal and those who touched him, some men seehings as the art and it sawhy? i dream things that ver were and say, why not? -- some men see things as they a and say why? i dream things that ver were in say, why t? -- and say, why not >> fomore information on today's ow, visit tavis smiley on pbs.org. tavis: hello, i am tavis sley. join me nex time for our conversatn with a that c.e.o. ron williams andhis take on t currentealth care date --

join me next time for our conversation with aetna c.e.o. ron williams and hitake on the current health care debate. >> there a so many things that wal-mart is looking forrd to doing, like helping pele live hild om', e're helping build stronger communities and relationships. because with your helpthe best is yet tcome. >> nationwe insurance proudly supports "tavis smiley." tavis and natnwide, workg togetr to improve financi literacand theconomic emperment that comes with it. >> ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ >> and by contribuons to your pbs station fromiewers like you thanyou. [ptioning made possible by kcet public telision] aptioned by the tional captioning institute --www.ncicap.org--