>> charlie: welme to the broadct. we continue ouvacation scheduleby looking at some of the people who come to ts table in t last year to lk about themsees and interesting things. tonight aubject, foie. first, david chang >> ly as good as your last dish. i contin toelieve -- it's not like if i was a sprint sprinter or physicist say a golfer, then you can really measuryourself. here, it's ry subjective. >> charlie: then ferran ai dree i can't >> really all the senses. when you eat. you hear, you taste.

the feeling the mouth. of the csk. charlie: finally t colicchi >> i note that over time i started removing ingredients. i said, 15ears, 20 years from now what might i look like? th's what happened whrab. very straight forward focusi on ingredien. >> charlie: food, foodies and passion for coong coming up.

caioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in neyork city, th is charlie rose. >> charlie: chef davichang is here. his blend f flavor combinatns haveaken the food world by surprise d applause has followed. he's already wontwo james beard awards, oscars of cuisine and both "bon appete" and ""g med him chef of the yea in 2007 w ha three restaurants ines momofuku. and newest ko, i am pleas to ha him here for the first me. let me just talk about the biography it's very interesting. mother and father came from korea. >> yep. post korea warn the early '60s. >> charlie settled in the washington d.c. area. >> northern virginia. >> charlie: in the shington d.c. area. then they got -- your dad first

woed in the kitchen washing dishes. >> in new york then he und his way downouth and -- >> charlie: selling gol surprise? >> then, got out of the restrant business. ned a couple of restaurants. never envisioned that i uld ever be in t restaurant indury got in e golf supply business. i played lot of golf as aid. >> charlie: ou were good. >> wl, i don't like to say i was od but i won few tourments, that's all i did i we to golf camp. i never hungut with friends, i waslways playing golf 365 days a year. >> charlie: we you about thsame age asiger woods at the time? he was two or three years older than me. >> charlie: e was a killer at that time. >> i think time i knew i was -- he was -- someone was a lot better i was trying to qualify for a tournament, t big i in houston, texas. he was already on theover of the pamphlet to get in to the tournament i wasike, he's too good. he was already legend back the >> charlie: so, you finally

decided that about gf? >> i bur out. i just thi it was -- wasn't mentally rea to handle the tournaments. it's such a stresslame. think a lot ofways it defined who i am today. i mean, i was -- t a head case the course, but it's so competitive yowant to beat everybody. it's you against the coue. yodon't have to be the most -- the longest hitter, the best putter, you need to havehe complete game. and the mental aspect. once i sort of realiz what i was doing in sortof maybe accompliing i sortf hadi don't kn a breakdown, i didn't enjoy it as much. >> charlie: how did y go from golf to cooking? well slowly s. it w never in my path. was career path that my dad never really envisioned. anof his children doing, because he -- we always saw him come home or very wearyrom working in rtaurants then the

lf store. i st,after college, didn't really want to sit behind a desk, at's not what i envioned my life to do. that's 199 i was like, well, most of my fends are miserable at their desjobs worng in wall street or lawor wtever. i'm going to pursue sothing that i at lea eoy doin that was cookingcooking. >> charlie: you liked it. >> i liked. >> charlie: wt did you like abt it? >> that you could work with something and ge better at it. and sort of just tte. yore creating someth usin ur hands, someing that was just the dirt par opposite of what i was ing in college or what i was dog groomed to do, ich i had no idea. cooking was something tha i felt i h honor in it. like a rea craft. if i was had more xterity i would have been like, i don't

know, a surgeon or sething like that. >> charlie: and so, you went cooking you got a series of jobs including japan. how influential was that? >>it was life changing. i had small stent teaing english in japan, i promised myself i'd go back to japanto dot right. anto absorb the food culture and stay there almost year, it cnged the way i viewe food. od didn't have to be good just for the ne dining level that was one of the misconceptns that i had about food that you could only eat well like fine dining restaurants in new york, for inance. in japan fromcheap restaurants to vy fancy restaurants, everythi was cooked with so much passion, very in gdient driven. everyone cared about food.

>> charlie: they le food in japan andractice the art of cooking to a hh level. >> it's amazg. peoplehat travel japan need to ta there longer than a week, need to go for three weeksnd soak up tokyo and other cities, it's uque culture, there's a t to learn. but particular aut food. >> charlie: one ofthe things that's clear about you is that you ve passion for chefs, period. you nt to see that che get their due and have an opportunitto spread out if youhave your drdrhers there uld be a lot more reaurants in new york and lot more good cfs working. >> it's too hard now to do it on your own. used to be enougho be a go chef, i lt i was like the last, when i srted cooking, i saw t last of the e ofthe eat chef, where you had to be the eatest technian. now it not like that any more. because once you came the

eatest technician u want have the ability to openp your own restaurant any mor things started tchange. in the '90s they were five or sirestaurants where if you wanted tlearn about cooking, you d to work there. now that's not t case any more. i ha just th utmost respect for the old school, tray tradition, history behin it. and everybody that's de it e right way and iave hard tim justifyi my place with at worl >> charlie: hy is that? >> bause i don't think paid my dues like everne els that'sardor me. i take it wi a grain of salt sometimes. not sometimes, all the time. beuse ieel that thomas keller, even the people that, there's a t of cooks out there i feel that are superior to me or much more talented that don't get the press coverage or the regnition that they deserve. and i just feelthat for

whatevereason just happened to me, ipeak my mind or i do this, i do th. not ke i'm trying to g atteion or anythg li that. trying t rve od food an ying to serve -- trying to eat our peopleike. >> charli not trying to attracattention. >> not just to do wha we believe in. >> chaie: t merv griffin rsue another idea, originality. that's what people say about you. you've takenthese things a you have made it original. u havereated by th things that you choose to do. >> that's anotr thing i he a hard time processin i don't knowf it's original. i think wh wiley dufre is original -- >> charlie: a big f of yours. >> i love what he does. i think that he was a trailblazer, he allowed us to do what we do. i think what redo is really sort of just repackaging stuff. that's the way i look at it. charlie: somebody else get exactly wh i get at your place

because th are already doing it before u stard? >> we -- >> charl: is that what you think? >> feel tte're not doing anything ground baking. 're just trying t again, i tell guys like -- i just feel, let'make something good, do it the righ w. the right way, let's be sptful to the product. let's cook it th technique. let's try to do what we have withhe -- with our limitations let's try our st regardls. even if it's a bad dish, someone doesn'like it, wantthat guesto be lik at least they tried their best. i might not findthe food agreeable, but can see how much love and passion was put in to the foo >> charlie: when you created sombarthere weren't a lot of people dyi to get in. you looked across the streetit was full. you said to yourself, an to yo guys, i don't care.

how many people come here but i want to make better food than they do. >> rht. >> charlie: ight? >> tha happened at both noodle baand ssam bar. and it just took a lot of -- i always say it was progressionof accidents. we sort of just with a lot of greapeople, too. we have a lotof good people that offer eat advice and great opinns and ssam bar was an examplehere i had idea to do sort fastood. it was terrible, terrible idea. >> charlie: why i was a rrible idea? >> decided to take a menu item from lch from noodle bar thatome obsre menu item me a whole restaurant out o i nody had any idea whathe hell we were doing. i don't know -- retrospect i don't know what the hell i w inking. >> charl: not only that, this was a place you chose a locati which was not a pce that people went for lunch. >> no. 13th street and 2nd avenue. >> charlie: iwas for lunch that yr business depded, that wasn't smart at all. not at all.

zero, zo -- >> charlie: you stopped making fast fo stuff. >> then listening tooaquin baka and tim hoe who bame partners in itll, we started -- this not how you do it. this is not how yo plan a restaurant you start fast food then we open upatenight. serve eclecticenu from 130 to 2:30 in the morning. people started coming in more for the late night than for ft food. and i waed to make sure it wa't hubrisr my own stborn -- >> crlie: who camewere efs gettingff work coming down there. they created buzz, because th like had they saw. >> yes. then we switched it up. then theurrito, whic was wt we were serving, sortof, went bye-bye. >> charlie: so what came in after the burrito went bye-bye? >> we start serving anying. wetarted serving country h ples, wstarted doing -- we

make the food i can't en describe it. say it's vaguely asian. >> charlie: there is deep wiin you this philosophy whh i buy in to totally. ich is, if you want to be t best, you g to work harder than everydy else at the core. not only yo but everybodyhat works for you,f they don buy in to that idea then ey're at the wronplace. >> right. it's tryinto stay humble. as muchas possiblend i always tell people, a l of new cook that ce in, congratulations, you chose one of the hardest jobs in the wod. try to do right. wee not doing anything special,e're not curing caer. we're feedinpeople. paicular now, food is special with food costs and al this othertuff, we got to d it right. be honest about itand hav

integrity. a loof these things i find at like people talk about the great chefs have alrea spoken out li chef keller talks about. i nd myself sort of repting what he session. he paved the way with trying to do thingthe right way. i don't know wt the right way is. but it's worki hard and it's sting your tail to do it right. >> charlie: how ny nights e you in the kitchen >> less andess these days. >> charlie: what are u doing? >> don't like bng in the open kiten too much. i like being at ssam bar i'm atko right now bause our chef own is sick. i n't know. m helping run theusiness. i don't want to be a lie say that i'm a the kitchen every night. charlie: you make that clear. anybody who says that, who owns more than one reaurant they're at the kitchenevery night is not lling you the truth. >> but for whatever reason, my career has changed, i don't know

how t definmy job any more some nights i'm working, some nightsi'm not. i'll do whever it takes to make the rtaurants work. >> charlie: o you still delight in cooking, though? >> i love it. >> charlie: when you go home you order piz and chinese takeout. >> thas true. i love cooking outside. but it's sort of -- not that much fun cooking at home. escially when you're out at the restaurants. your refrigerator dsn't have the walk-inll the fresh her and beautiful fish andchicken. you don't have a dishwasher -- >> charlie: so pizza will do. >> pizza will . some cooks le cooking at home. i miss cooking the line as much as -- i wish iould cook more. >> charlie: do u, reay? trhfully? >> trutully. but at theame timet's weird because all our kitchens are sort of open, i don't know if - i have sort o different persona

when i'mback there. >> charlie: people want t come in becse your auto celebrit >> i don't want talk to them. not like i don'tant to talk to them -- >> chaie: you hav other things this . >> yeah. i'm trng my best toke a even temr and to have some balance. >> charlie: what's the likelihood we'llind one of your restaants in las vegas? >> oh, man. that's theoaded question. i would say it's pretty good. i wod say. >> charlie do you have -- are you ambivalent aut that? >> i'm not ambalent. what it is is new york rlly hard to do business w york. and what the dining public doesn't quite understand is that we're not aood culture like are france or italy or japan where you casort of run a restaurant like mom and pop operation. i jokethat i own a shoe store we have to sell s.u.v. shoes to pay the bills

after that, then we'r cooking. new york with all the construction perts and everything and, eou haicapped compliant, it'sard because these buildings ar tough and they'remall and someone from las vegas you have an opptunity to do something fresh and new. all of our restaurantsre very tiny. it's certainly another opportunitthat -- >> charlie: you tnk 12 seats is tie know? is that wh you have at, no. yes, it's 12 seats. >> 12 seats. what if mebodyancy wantedo gea reservation? not possible. >> charl: not even for the great frank bni? >> no only person we've ever do it for s been samelman my sous chef's mother. >> t if you don't do thatou don't deserve to be alive. >> she came opening day we rerve add slot for he

i thought -- >> charlie: what about the all the chs that helped y along. all those people who were the for yowhen you needed advice and encourament and to take you ouof a funk and now they want to come eat at you restaurant, you say, no reseations allowed, get in line? >> i w hoping thathey wodn't ask. they can -- they can to go ssam before or noodle bar anyime. >> chaie: but noto. >> we' lucky that somne told me the other day that t web guy, we have 25,000people registered to use no 12 seats. it boggles my mind. >> charlie: what do they get there that makesthis so luable? >> they get the dferent ding experience. we wante to stri away all the nonsense. do we really need a wine expert all e other this th you see hat three star or four star restaurant. our go was noto be thre stars. our goal w, let's again, serve the best food we can. let's try to make the best food

in new yk city. regardless of anythingelse. regardless of ou environment. i sort of le that die dichotomof sort of a envinment that issort o maybjust like a divear, for instan. why can't thatlace sve some of the most decious food in the world. yotalk to peop about fd meries, they will y, i had this great fh taco. or i love roast chicken. or i love this. they're mple things, they're sort of devoid of those sort of nciness that food is associated to love food in america you ve the stigma ofeing elitist in way. that shodn't be the case. i think amecans should apprecia foodore, th way maybe we'd eat less bad food or know where our food icoming from. charlie: what you descrid is what you don get. wh's not necessary. what do you get? what the meal? >> you tenner a very small rm, you're going to getvariety of can payse and then -- canape

then raw fish dish. certain things that weant to sell. like we wantawt wanang eg want an egg dish. we want a pasta coue. wt fish cou we want a meat crse. those a the parameters we try to switch upithin that. atever is st in that day, 've had -- we've been messing arou with the menu, we have a short rib dish. the hard thing is, for the cooks is the menus n stayed the same t we want to change. we are constantly trying push, not the envelope, but 're sort of add weant to change the men it's hard -- >>ttention deficit disorder? >> when stomers come in they read aboutome of the food items we he short rib dish or a fluke dish, one of the first courses with butter milk we don't ve that sunday. they get upset. >> charlie: you ma point when you find yrself less and less coong more and more

entrepreneur,ou have lost something that was impoant to you. when you were cooking, you knew what you were about and you knew how to measure our yourself. >> right. charlie: some entrepneurs will say it's not about the money but th's the way we keep score. are you seriouslaying, how do i measure how good im, just puttinmore people in the restaurant is not nessarily, becae a lot of people have done tha and don't mak great food. >> i'm figuring that out as i go. to measure yourself in ts restrant industry is pretty tough. there are some people that i would love -- i don't think i'd ever be - it's weird tbe mentioned in the se breath as these people. but'm not. >> charlie: s, you are. you are mentied in the same breath. you are. >> these guys -- >> charlie: it's not becse you mention theyhink of you i the same breath. all these people -- ruth doesn't take fools seriously, does she? >> i hope not.

>> charl: here iser magazine. >> this is hermagazine. >>harlie: let's see wha she sa here. hungry, david chang always fel like a misfitooking in fine dining estlishment, how iroc that is two new york city restaurants serve me of the finest foodsround. i think if you believe that though, yore in a lot of trouble. charlie: yes, that tru that's parof it. if you believe it u are in trouble. >> only add gd asour last dish. i just ruse to believe -- it's not like if was a sprinter physicist or say a golfer, the you can really measure yourself. here, it very subjective. all of this will be not obviously everhing will be gone, but- >> chare: chang soulful cooking challenged thenotion that innovation can only come with the hef price tag. price, tell me about pring? >> wel e of the thin, it's funny now after like fr years

we sort of have a philosophy, t's make delicio food of value. a value to the customer. like, it's hapned to m you to go a fancy restaant or place that you hea that you want to havereat meal you leave youpend several hundred dolls you feel like you re ripped o a little bit. we want toake sure that wasn't ing to happen. regardle of the price. that's proven toe more and more difficu these days with rising food cost t that was theoal. let's make great food, let's try to undersell and overdeliver >> charlie: howo your lifestyle differentow that you're big and fous. ri and famous,hatever. >> n no. i don't kn. i'm ting to figure that a out. i'm ying to figure out what my lifestyle shld be. trying to have some life lance. is it all work? >> charlie: i tell youhat's most important about youn

tes of my oervation and i know nothing. you ask quesons. you are asking questis. where am i whats this about? how do i sy good? how do i d all that? yes, no? >> very mu so. i think i evaluate myself may o much to a fault. >> charlie: david chang is maof credentials. that's true,rench culinary scho. what did you g there? whato they teach you? >> they taughtme how to ar up vegetables. taught me a lot of different getables. >> chaie: good place to go. you learned what? >> frenchechnique. like leaing mathatics. at least in the western cooking. people fort that there's whole other -- >> charlie: french chnique isathematics of cooking is the -- >>rithmetic. >>harlie: i understand. >> lays down thec foundion. f fohow to d stuff. >> charlie: cooked in new york restaurants, wonwards le the worldhere all tho

credentials mattered. i wanted to us what i learned in, he opened momofuku ssam b and noodle b, tiny joints tt reimaged ramen noodles d other asian delicacies for the 21st centu and: everything els >> keep it simpl >>harlie: that's it? when you dre big dreams at do you dam? >> you know, just the goal isto make it happen for other people. it happened for me, but to dream big, everyone asks like, h do do you this, how do you do that? i was certaly lucky you just got to go for it. yogot to realize that you he very fine time on this pnet and you got to go f broke. yohave to go all in sometimes.

>> charli ferrandria has been called many things the world's greatest chef. the salvador dali ever the kihen. a culinary revolutiona. he ishe own and headchef of e restaurant el bulli located o hours of ba bcelona. if you energy get a table you' be served a 30-crse meal. the me changes from one year to the next. e restaurant opened only hal the year. the st is spent rigorously researchingngredients and developing t menu. aspi and renownedhefs from ound the worldcom toork there r free. among them jose ands who was the face o spanish food. he worked the between 1987 to 1989 he now cls adria his master. he now owns eight celebrate restrants in beverly hills and

washington. i am very pleased to have ferran adriand jo andres forhe first time and hopefully many times in theuture. welcome. >> tha you very much. >> charlie: what does itmean to youo see this all the time? best chef in the world, ferra adria? sometimecalled anartist like picao. what does it mn? >> it's horror. something terrible because i don't feel like the best chef in e world. but wh others keep saying that you are, somhing, iuess, you have to live wh. >> yesterday i wa at the culinary instute of ameca and i gave a conferenceor 2,40people, students. realize that am like an icon

for many young people. me the real pressure is really to make sure that iill always bthere forhem and i will be a good example. you cannot let down to a young student 15 yes old andhat he sees you as honesty, theotal thing in your nd of line of wo. and that's a b pressure. >> charlie let me talk about your relionship. you first knew about him when? >> i was 15, 16 years old. i wo in barcela and i kin of tryo go to a school, i was always working, i ner went to school. i spent a summer workn a little restaurant in bssels, the town where elbull six located.

cooking paella r the tourists. charlie: you want to transform food. transforfood. but you also want to satisf fo levels of pleasure. hunger, sens,motions, and intellec >> intellect is the mt intent experience it is in the rld. >> charl: one of them? >> most intense because you can measure the intensity in many ys. is not other creative moment thate'll use the five sens. none music is beautiful, but it's only the ear. >> charlie: the ear the heart. >> butfirst let's talk about e senses, the physicalevel.

painting is ly the esight. eating is really al the sense when you eat, you smell,ou listen, you hear, yotaste, the feeling in the mouth,bviously the heart,bviously the conversation. food, eating i somethg really colex. but because we e every day, we don'want to see it as sothing very complex. a lite bit of ience fiction. for a second tha food will not

be a physiological need. what would be the relationship with food then. because weeallyeed to thin at eating and breathing is the onlywo things that we go from the moment we ar bornntil the moment we die. so, it is really very complex relationip. >> charlie: ou can tell the rld about the complexy behi eating. but, yeah, the people at are watchg us right now, you kn, can be telling them about the bk stage what' happening behind. but i am only interesd in happiness. >> charlie: rig. >> when you see a painting is e emotion.

why become something emotional? andhy you wl really feel very emotion when you are in front of a gastronomica experience. this zonal likone time itself. 's people when they are in frt of picas painting ty cry. these otr people they walk by and without evenooking at it. it's the same painting. >> charlie: and that'the way you have to approh food, that individually it has to touch yoas an individual. >> and we a in aind where everyone, the guest, is the ones that they' going toe in charge of what is ing to be happenin

beuse people are the ones tt they're going to beeciding what is really emional. especially when we're talki about of a vguard cooking. beuse avante guarde cookingis noeference. something ry emotional. within youat a good meal, traditiol meal you have previous reference with somethinelse you made before. simar to the thing tt i had in par e thing i ate in barcelona, you have a reference. but when you have in front of you a dis of avant garde cooking, you have no rerence. en you go to jan you are think you arin another planet.

and about fd, too. its nothing like eating in the westn world. not the food, the spirit behind the food. it's a new world. you are in jap you get a dish in front of you it's only the relationip between you and thdish. are you ee mock phical about what you see or not. because if it's fir time you've been japan y have no referenc the tea ceremonyn japan is cry. but you need to be willing to get in tothat special wld. beuse if not, you may think that that tea ceremony is

something very superiopuffer laws -- superfluous and avant rde cooking is that. >> >> charlie: the word "molecular" mes up, you don't like it? >> don't like it. because when i heard the term molelar it's a very cold image. about cookg. i don't like the nam because it's really the ctrary tohat i want really tell the world. >>harlie: happy, warm, touchi, all the senses. wh word would you use to descbe the cuisine that you want to create? el bulli. finally h sees us clear. this is an importantoment because it took me 25 years to

come with a name for my cooking. >> the cooking i do it'scalled el blli -- el bulli, no other names. >> charlie: that wo describes wh you do 123. yes. because this is theasy version because t difficult versn is way too difficult and complex to explain. >> charlie: you've also developesomething called "fast good." >> yes >> charlie: whais that? >> this was socialtudy the did in spain.

>> people red to pay a little bit more for quality. between a norm burger and a very good burger, but certainly a difference ofthree or four dollars. people readyo pay more for ality? >> charlie yes? >> no. the global level, no. i belie this is educaon problem. now let's change the term. this is not gastronome y more. are talking about eating and alth.

i am the president of a foundation with the chief cardiologist on mount sin here in new york. that our work is to make sure thathis course, cldren will study about fd and our heth. if we don't begin educating our youngsrs that's wi cialw or social studies youant to do, noing is going to be good. government people are snding millions and mlions in programs that setimes they are worth nothing.

noovernment inthe wor yet s committed to make sure that we will have one hourwake in the schools. anthat's incredible. the crisis we a facing today en we talk about economicss going to be nothing compared to the problem we're going be facing when we tal about the health in a few years fro now. and the gornment they're not going to beble to really pay the costsof healtare. but if weon't teach children nothing we do is going to be woh it. >> charlie why is el bul ly open six mont aear, ju six months?

>> why y d't do the program 24 hours a y? cause you have to get ready to -- because i do creative cookin avant gae cooking. need time to crte. i need time to create the scripts. >> charlie: here are lotsof pictures in this book of you studying, studying mus, recipe >> work work, wor >> charlie what are you looking fo >> i am looking for the culary limits

t there are no secrets,t's hard work, hard rk, hard work. >> charlie: about everythg? >> it's a very frivolo image about creativity. people may think it happens by chance, you need to work hard. >> charlie: someone said it's % perspiration, 1% inspiratio but there' also here title called "creati meths" meaning there is method. >> whenou do cativity you can do two things. one, youill not look in to the past or secd, you look in to the past to makeure that you will not copy.

in our case we' been analyzing ourselves ntinuously. we dokind of yrly creativ ideas. and aft i've beenoing a year audit, it's sometng not good because when you ask yourself sharks we keep goi forward next yea t the only way rlly to keep creatingvery year coming u with new things iseally analyzing yourselves contuously. >> charlie: you only want one restaurant? >> yes, because i canno

reproduce el bulli. i will not be honest, i will not be honest with myself. >>harlie: tell me about a perfect meal for you. >> i don't like thingsin an absolute way the st day, the best meal. today e best thing i can be doing is dng this ierview with y. and i'm reall trying to hav a very good me in this intervw. thbest moment isvery moment of your life. >> charlie: ch tom colicchio is here. the foder of two legendary

manhtanestaurants, gramercy tavern and crab. he's won thr jes beard awdsnd chef of the honor fr many magazines, in 2006 he left grarcy taverno focus on craft chaithat empire now includes cra los angeles, craft atlanta, cra steak and craft ba guess what, there is witchcraft. 's also th head judgen bravo's hiteality show "top chef" i'm pleed to have him he for the first time. welcome. ni to have you here. >> good to be here. >> charlie: how did it stt for you? how does one develop this passion at enables you too wh you've done? >> when i was about 13 or so, i just found that i enjoyed cooking, injoyed food. really enjed just kd of woing with food. i most likely wld have been diagnod with a.d.d. i -- >> charlie: your attentn was limited? >> well, th problem had is, i

look back on it now, i would linger through reces try to get through them. and so what would do just try to read get the essence oft then go off and try to come with wt i thought thedish was suppos to be. t, no, just came fro absolute love. en i was lucky when i was 15 my dad actually sugsted that i beco a chef. >> charlie what did he know? he knew that he led it? >> you know, heust tried to t all of his sons to follow in their passion, do something they really love. ers a crections officer i county jail, ion't think he had any y out that have b. that w really importthat his children found something they loved to do a success was secondary. >> charlie: assumedf he had passion you'd beore likely to success. >> yes. >> charlie: whose proval? >> oer chefs. one of the things did ior the "rocky mountain pos we did dinner together out ere i was asked that same question. would i wanted from e industry. i just want aroval from my

peer, that i was doing something worthwhile. it's usually peoe who i've worked wit like thomaskeller and alfred a people like that who i get excited when they're in my restaura. >> charlie: t ideas of food beingushed forward conantly? >> it's consttly being pushed forward. on the other hand there are times it takes a step back. i think craft was when i did craft, mbe jumping ahead,ut to me th was in thontext of gramercy tavern whe i was doing plated food, always pushing it. craft was actually a step -- >> charlie: what is pted food? >> we plated food. craft is done family soil. craft was taking a step ck. both takg a step backnd looking forward. at i did was, all cfs we have repertoir of dishesthat we carry aroundike security blankets and every - >> charlie: like musicians. >> when string comes along you have the riff, is that you ow. u dust of your spring recipes. i ticed over time i started

removing ingredits. so i said, well 1ears, 20 yearsrom what my food look like? that's whahappened withraft. became very stripped down, very simple straight fwardfocusing on ingredients d i noticed that the older i got the simpler the cooking -- i gvitated towas more simple style becae you get older you have a confidence, you don't need the bells and whistl any more. >>harlie: what does that mean? >> really just about cooking rely well and preseing food at was very simple, whe you ca actually -- it's difference between piecef shaker furnituror beidermeier. >> charlie is there riskor you y, and others like you, to become more entrepreur and less -- >> sure? it's interesting questio becae as -- i hate toay empire or cin, as we wer opening other restauran, it comes wno, you have portunities to open restaurants whether it's i

different citiesyou get approached byeveloper, you put a grt deal together. i have a lot of you chefs who are lookg forhat next sort of potion. the difference between bng a sous chef and is he is about double their salary. you are looking for opportunities,ecause if you dot provide an opportunity for thesguys and gals that are coming up, the will go work for somebody ee. that's o motivating factor. the other is, years ago chefs didn'tave these kind of opportunities to open a restaurant in vegas or do books andv. i never - 30 years ago when i started coing i didn'tet in tohis business to do books a tv the idea of everything a tv show was just so foreign 30 yes ago. >> charlie but you do it becausyou enjoy it? because it's a means to communice the things that you have experienced and done and had fun allhat? >> thas part of it. othepart is another challenge. part is i thi the idea of what a chef is is expanding and

changing. i think that i jok around my wife always ges me hard tim when i say. th i got tired ofitting next toobby flay at a book signing. >> charlie: he waon tv you weren't. >> exactly. going back to the origin question as faas push can it, i ink that my answer to that was, when felt tha the business side wa starting to take up too much of myrain, i decided to sp back do meg called tom's tuesday dinner whi happens in o private ding room at craft where 's turned in to a restaurant, we dobout 32 cove, a tenourse tasting menu i'm cooking pretty much everything except dessert. charl: like $0? >> no, $15 for a ten-course meal. th -- $150 for a ten coue meal. i'thinking about the busines and marketing like i shod. anthe other half i'm always looking at food again thinking about combinations ofood and

so that's one y to sort of get the other hat back on. >> charlie: do you thatnce every two wes? you put th other hat on? >> well, i put the other hat on. now 's the creative sides constaly working getting rea for that every othe tuesday. >> charlie: do you have bad nightss a cook, as a che in the samway that gfer can have a bad day? >> sure. >> charlie: film maker can make a bad movie >> yeah, i thinko. i think the film maker i think, my wife is ailm maker, i think it's a bad it it- edit. there's always a good film somewhere in thereou have to ke it come out. we have -- charlie: even if she's responsible for e editing. >> usually you have some kind er -- restaurants hoover bad nights. as whole a chef may have bad ght, chef what they d most people that don know in the kitchen, chefs aren't cking. >> charlie: cf just sily

maging and expediting, ming sure. if you tasting, tting? >> youre. usually with aist tang spoon. tasting litt portions of things, loong, walkinground the stations to each cook d making sure thingsre salted enough and makin sure that they're cuto precise. you e constantly schecking up on this. >> charl: how about reviews? >> reviews are aays important pecially "new york tim," morning magazine" here in new york. anthere are lot o three-star restaurants that don't me it. a t of one-star resurants at havehriving business. so, they are important. >> charlie: one star restaurant they have tiving business sething about the ambiance, you'll see frien there, lika club, something else is happening or not? >> well, it's interesting. if you poll people, they have done ts, they polled -- reaso why u go back to a restaurant, usually neighborho is sort of third thing that's ntioned.

usually it's bei rognized. >> crlie: being recognized. >> seice. >> chaie: you walk in they make you feelike you're at home. >> there's always that moment. it happens to me you walk to a restaurant you think, ey're not going to have the reservion. there's ways this -- i'm nervous, try to get your hark else up. i think that'-- riews are importanfor egos, it' our scorecard. >> charlie: does it make you better? >> i think the desire t get a grt review always makesyou better. >> charlie: but doou learn from it? in other words, u see review, he's got a point ther >> is one thing besides many thgs i learned from danny, i remember getng twotar review that ihought deseed one star at gramercy tern when we first oped up. you nd of getting angry, you sethe two-c youork. grercy thereas --

expections were so high. new yo magazine ran pce, is in theext four-star restaurant? so, as he put it there's gd in those revie. at fst they stink. you read them. you got to look at them, okay, maybthis is hapning. i rember getting a so-so review one of thfew really one-star stareview at cft steak. i agreed wh some of it. thought we served tw i ow we didn'teserve three. i remeer reading it, was any, i was mad. bui called up the reviewer, just sai all right, let'salk about this. charlie: you did? >> i always - >> charlie: aid what, okay? >> no: "new yorkagazine" every review i got i would say thanks or atever. you n't know them, they come anonymously. we have an idea what they look like. but they ce in anon looly. way night check in. there's one coent that frank brudi made that i didn't agree

with. i wanted to let him know that i didn't agree. also let him know that this reaurant will get better. d hopefully one of these days you can come back in and revisit. about a year later did he. and gave us two star review. that i thought was fair. >> charlie: if y wanted to sort ofxpand your knledge of fo and cooking. i'm going give yo four or five candidates. tom keller would bone. >> he an i wkedogether, i was his sous chef when he w at raquel here. >> charlie: which was not success? no. it wasn'tecausehe food it was fabulous food. a schizophrec restaurant. a r on oneide and serious restaurant on the othe it didn't knowhat it wanted to be. charlie: also, a perfect leon of the fact that somehow something doesn't ite work out but e people who are tre are brillit. tom went on to -- >> doing ainner together in a

few weeks we hav cooked togethere're looking forrd together i he not eaten at el bulli. last time i was there, i was aving the day thishey could get me in i was leaving spain i coul't get. e day they canet me in. i was lucky to get in. itas day i was leaving i couldn't make it. no, haven't. >> charl: he has this passn that is -- you can feel it. rt is, he has curiosity about food that - you know, everything thate's developed, all these techniques that he's researched, they're all,t ast from what i underand we answer to a problem. i have a problem, want to create an affect, h do i do it? dollars th he goes finds a way to do it. >> charlie: exactly.

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