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washingto the life d legacy of edward moore knedy. >> an extraordinary life on this earth hasome to an end. the extraornary good that he did lives on. to his family he was a guardian, for amica, he was the dender of a dre. >>ted kennedy followed his brother's jack and bby into politics and after their assassinations he became the family patriar and eventuall the politicaicon. after nearly five decades ithe senate,e was the leading voice of h party's liberal wing in is 1980 convention speec it a ted kennedy classic >> for all of those whose cares ve been our concern, the wo goes on, becae indoors, the hope still lives and the dam shall ver die. ♪

>> leim and or hate him -- and ere are still some ted kennedy haters out there -- it is fair to say that washingto will not be e same without him. he died at his me this week in massachusetts at the age of summit-77. he was diagnosed with a brain tumor in may of 2008. we knew anhe knew that the was no cure, only delayg action. >> the toh will be passed into a new generation of americans. the ho rises agn andhe dream lis on. >> dpite his akened ndition, kendy made an appearance at bara obam's convenon and denver its -- in denv a year ago and the inaugation in january. spent his fin days in cape cod surrounded by hi family. çbut clearl washington and the issues of the dawere never far from his min particurly health care, one of s signature issues being debated

inhe capital. >> you never could have a better advocate than d knedy. if he was i yourorner, he was it forever. >> we became very good friends even though we fght each other st of the time. he would get up there and ailing his arms and his face would gered and he would make all of theseiberal comments and just eerienced our side and then come up and say, was that all right? things like that, you could not help but likeim. >> senators chris dodd and orrin hatch. ted keedy's final restin place will be at arlingto national cemetery next to hi brother's jack and bobby curan >> how will he be remembered? >> ted kennedy from those ofs to cover demanded new him slightly will remeer him as the remaable feat -- ho covere him and knew ms. saile rememred --ho covered him and knew him slightly ll be membered in h as a likable

peon. altm become a people like ted kennedy because who he was and he genuily liked them. it was incredie asset and strength as a political leader curator >> charles? >> he was the most important sectors since lyndon johns. sury, the most important in u.s. history thatever became majority lear. also, you are the leader of american liberalism- you have the leader of american liberalism. he tk it from the century of his brother, john kennedy, to the left liberalism of obama. he stand that era and helped to prepare that cnge. >> all ofhis is true and more. he could be rembered as a truly shespearean figure, tragic,flawed, whochieved reteion through greg both in hisrofessional and personal lives.

-- who achieved greatness both in his professional d personal life. >> thoseof us who rember the kennedys wl rembert john kennedy and bertennedy as t promise. but ted kennedywas the fuillment of that promise. >> if you ok at his record, people tend to say that heah care was h signate issue, but think i was civil rights cause from hisarliest days in the u.s. senate, that was his issue all the wayhrough the americanswith disabilities act. and you could even argue that heth care, in hisind anyy, is a civil rights issue. >> absoluly right. people forget one of itsirst legislate achievements in 1955 w -- in 1965 was to rewrite the immigration laws which at the time per r europeans and about asians a africans to emrate on the same

level. >> where did that come from? he s a child of privilege, the son of one of the wealthas men in america at th time, where did this concern for othercome from? >> to whom much i given, much is expected. he joined e senat and s brother d just promised a civil rights bl. he didot see it through. he was there. ted kennedyame along at the time thathe civil rights movement was at its heht. he was tre to see this cil- rights legislation moved throug in my opinion, into law. he was a ghter for civil rights than d he remained all the way through. one thing people do not member, it was the behind-the- scenes keedy who was really interested in the people. forxample, during the vietnam r when they were talking abo bringing hom -- getti out of

vietm at the end. there was a closed-door briefing and theeneral was taing about how ty were going do thispeaking in rms of uts that wod be moved between t pipeline to t them outf there. kennedy saidwait a minut general, we are not talki about units or pipelines. we're talking about people that was the kennedy gnature. he really saw the people behind th numbers. >> in 1968 he was somewhat ambivale of the war. after 1968 h was very much against it. his political slls were the nate willot be the same without him, wilit? >> yeah, and one of the great rength that he had was highlighted in most of th memorial's paid to him. he ha sick -- a great self-

deprecating humor in juary of 1971, robert byrd upset him in t democratic caucu. he became 31-24 for the senate -- r the democratic whip. kennedy handled it well. it was damaging tany national ambitions. he said, but what i want t thank the 29 senats who edged to support me and i want thank in parcular e 24 senato who did ve for me. >> [laughter] he had, for a senator anyway relatively ltle ego he was always interested in getting something done. and not taking e cred, that was the way he hieved it. he cameack year after year to get little more, a little more. wn he did run for presidt in 1980, the wor tt we heard overnd over again with chappaquiddick. d that cost him the

presidency? >> for sure, i mean, he was the heir to the royal famy. there s no way that he had- would have been died the esidency had that not happened. he was lucky he was a kennedy and beuse of the proximity of the death of his brothers, chappaquiddick did not end his care. his behavior was inexcusableas he himselfas said. he said he would live withhe memory every day ofis fe, and ye he transcended polically. 1980as not a good year. what is ironic in tt speech, as yo all remember at we saw, "theream shall never die." he was not writing -- running against the nservative. he wasrunning against the ntrist at the time, a decrat, for president. h was alwa in struggle with that centralism jury t. hat centralism was inany ways

personified by jn knedy. if he would have everun against jon, in theo, he would have beenn the left and john would have been in the cter. >> there are obviouslyifferent timeand a host of different issues and e coldwar was over. but he changed the language o t 1980 speech, "the dream will never die" and in 28, " the dream lis on." he said in 1968 d i do not -- he said in 1980, i do not mind being presint, i just mind that somebody else is. >> -- i do not mind not been president, i just mind that somebody else is. >> his ideas and ideals are stamped on scores of laws and reected in millions of lives. senior to no new date in thi,

families who no new opportity, children who know educati's promise and all who can pursue their dreams in an america that is more equal and more jus including self. president oba speaking from martha's vinerd where he has been on vacation. your member and a nture in washgton in which carole and ted kennedy passed the torch to obama. why did he go with obama instead of hillary clion? >> i think hstated inhat verytirring speh at american university. he recognized the count was readto gin a newirection and change was the watchwo. he sght in obama and what obama could bng to the presidency, to the cotry. it was a good peal for the clintons, but ey represented thepast and kennedy sathe need to ve forward. >> with out -- wiout ted

kennedy would barack obama be present? >> i thi he still wld have been president. i do. in fact, tedennedy could not even cry massachusetts in the primaries for back obama. >> true. >> i tnk it was psycholically an important moment, but that is all it w was an iortant moment. >> gd barackobama -- cld barackbama have bece presidenwithout e 18-year- ì(lc@&c ted kennedy had enormous appeal among young voters, 221. -- 2 t 1. i think it was two this. ted nnedy's sport for obama. and he also said the most important vote that he cast as a senator was his vote against iraq. he agreed with obama on that a disagrd with eri clinton bl

clinton had, in fact, been quite disparaging and disssive in conversations with ted kennedy of barack obama. andted kennedy w offend by it. >> there was also a political, ideological component cnton's presented centralism in a way and keedy was more on the le. i ink that was rt of the reon. iq is one example of that. also, clion is thone who abolished welfar which kennedy opposed. i'm not sure thathe endsement of obama release wait a lot of -- rlly swayed a lot of votes. but he used the words open with e torch hadeen passed" which john kennedy had used when he watalking about t eisenhower

generation paing the torch to his. and i think this was a change. and i thinkbama was regarded as a nnedy-esque figure. >> let's lk about hlth care. you did some reporter ght -- reporting on how the debateis shapin up despite the abnce ofed kennedy. tell us about h that is shapg up. >> a very prominent and respectable reblican pollste put it very well this week. he said, senator -- president obama, excuse me, people want him to succeed, people like him. republicansnd better unrstand that. he problem is that he has his own dete to ke and the oba plan and the numbers d support ha gone down. they had better come up in every

with a recantingaepackaging, w and improvedchanged plan if it is going to be suessful. quite honestly, if people say ted kennedy is miss, he is missed in the sen that ted kennedy uld have told very early on what the proems were and what toobout the his ability t forge coalition is just so impssive. >> also he cld sell. it is gng to be a compromise. he coul have sold it to the liberals. >> the expression that y have heard at the table before [unintelligible] but at's not close the book on this health care debate.

sure, there's still opposition, buty one count their 45 hard senate votes for the public an. 45 hard senate votes for the public pl. at is hardly somethi to throw away. at this pnt, barack obama has to find the votes,whether itis up to 50 or a ltle re, but it is not imssible. i think kennedy is. help hi over the top. -- i think the kennedy legacy is the way thelp him push tt over theop. >> ted kennedy wrote a lettero the vernors sayg, i would li this seat filled and i will have the person omise that he or she will not run agai what is the situation? >> the situation is that the democrats are caughtn a hocritical acted in 2004, mitt romneyitting in the

gernorship believing that joh kerry was going tbe elected president, e massachusetts legislature wanted to vo for republicans. they overwhelmingly vod to deny theovernor the appointment and have a specl election. now they' only 59 democratic nators with senatorç kennedy's debt and they want feel that so that the magic numbe is 60. why all of a sudden ishe legislature wanted to change it so the governor n make thi in an appointment? >> i am shocd. >> they are rectant at first to do this. >> there is great tension between the govnor and legiature. leslators do not like the governor, the governor ds not like the leglators. the qstion i will there be enough of a demand to force the legislature to do somethi

other than change the rple? >> there really is a wa to finesse the issue and to keep from having tochange the law with the change the governorship. i think what they ought to do i massachusettis simply pass a law thatays, the governor will appoint a successor if the nator dies in office if the vernor is a demoat. otheise, if he is a repuican, there will be a special election than they do not haveo change the law again. >> [laughter] >> i do not tnk that will be a problem. >> i think the people of massachusetts wod think is a great idea tousinberre like that. -- to do something like that. >> i do not thi that they wa to be without a senor for five nths. it justaw what happened in minnesota. >> why did they changit? >> they changed it for political reasons. they will change it back for purely politicaleasons.

hypocrisyeads to schear icketcrookedness >> in 19 between 196and this pas week, there has been e senate vacancy in massachusetts, in 1984 when john kerry was elted. politians milk -- mdle age and beyond have beenlanning theisenate campaigns. i think people need to take a long and surging personal ok at this race because its a no lose. you do t have to give up your current officeo run, so why not? >> can youive me some names? >> massachetts never elect a woman to the senate, as governor despite its liberal

aditions. a democrat member congress fr somervill steve lyncha democric member of coerce -- congress succeeded joe moaey. kennedy was leaving the pos in theast poll i saw appeared -- was leading in the polls in the lastoll isaw. e congressman who married to the chancellor at the university of lowl who has $1.4 million in his kicker, not a bad start to campan. >> what about the peoplof massachusetts? what do they think? >> aqsa the. >> general -- attorneyeneral holder is dealing with the cia interrogation techniques again with that the lease of a heily redacted report from

2004. it included a mock executions intidation with aandgun and a wer drill. where is this ing? >> i thi it is unlikely that there will actually be indictnts, in part because theseuys hadn investigati before and under the juice department regs, you have to think tha you have a pretty good chae of coiction. the more y -- themore people will say, they told us to do ything we could to get inrmation, the more up the chain of cmand to go, the more there is authorition and the president has sd and the attorney general has said th will ly psecute unauthorized conduct. >> some of th stuff did not seem to be that bad to me. >> that what they do not nt you to see the pictures. e pictures will show you what kind o condition people were

in. >> they got the guy in the next room screang as if he is being torted to try to get the fellow theare interrogatingo talk. >> i think we need to distinguish between firing un in the next rm or threatening to hurt somebody'familyç or people actually been kied and people actually beg killed. >> that is true. >> wt happened to cause th death of individuals who were in the custody of the u.s. government? >> we have not seen half of this report. hf of iis blacked out. >> doeit disturb anyone that we are debating is in the open where america's enemiecan see this >>t disturbs me that we did it. >> the report itself makes it pretty clear thate got extraordinarily -- extraoinary informion out of this.

if you look at the time line o this, it is t a coincidence that pileggi monnat this report is said to have sd -- khal shaikh mohammad is said to rep sa nothing of importance unt after the waterarding and afterwards became a rolodex on operati's and plots to crashe airanes, blow u airplanes, attack our embassy our consute in karach the same is true othe interrogation of another detainee who was apparently uncooperative in the beginni. >it really does n say that. >> it says exactly that, over and overgain. >> i is not clear in e report ho much me from the fbi and how much ca from the ci. >> the complication of t geneva convention and e un conventi on torture, which was endorsed and embraced by ronald reagan and the s. ultimately did n ratify, totally

outlawtorture and cruel an degrading trtment. that ishe obligation. the divisiothat erges polically is betweenhose who rved in the military and thos who did no when you get people lik tony vinny and john saashvilind johnmccain saying it is not who ey are and what they do,ut who we a. we talk out prisoners of war like pete terson coming out againsit, and i think we hav to listen to them. >> final thougs on ted kennedy's dth. >> ted kennedy waan indidual with tusands of best friends. he talked to people and they will relate to you especially ship that they d as individus. we know what he did for the country, what has done for the world. but ofteimes, those acts of charity that he did with the time that he had hereon ear

were never notic. there wasnot a tv came. the was not a still phographer. there wanot a reporter. >> thousan of unreported acts of kindness. >> there are increble stories. one staffer, a youn staff, his father w dying obrain cancer kennedy got on a plane, went to se the fatheto tell him what a great job his son w doing and then sat with the sun for a couple of hours. angot on alane and went back to washington. there e probably thousands of stories li that. >> my good friend and longtime colleague, robert novak, who died last week of e same illness, was diagnosed with brain canr shrubby after ted kennedyas. bob novak in his bottle -- autobiography,y his own acknledgment, did not hav a complimentary wordor ted kenned when he got diagnosed he got

call recommending procedures, advising on surgeons. he was overwhelmed by the time is. >> i saw him sittingcross the table when there was an editorial at e of the washgton post -- all of the record -- his passion was as great in pvate as it was in public. that is what he will be remeered r. >> i've feel as if i am -- i feel as if i crushing an ish wake. heas a great nator. hiory will judge whether his brand of liberalism w suited to le 20th-century americand the veict is not really i yet. >> thank y, charles see you xt week. > anscript of this broadcast, go to.