>> hello. i latino, host "ite house chronicle," whi is coming right u but fst, a f

thoughts of my own. many of us are apprehensive about government hlth-care because we did not know h it works in other cntries. we just wonder how wt will workere. part of that comes fro t experiens we have wh we deal directlyone-on-one, with the government, with the so-called facess bureaucrats, wn they have fes,ut sometimes, they are rather sullen faces, not lpful faces, basis that say no. for example, fresh in my md is the agency in washington where went recentl to get some mre cages put in his passport. they just blow itheir additionalages because there are too my stamps. that inotocket science. th does not require any special thing except some pages in the pace pot. i went over, andhey said i had toring my itirary because

they wanted a hurry. i cannot turn my passport away for six weeks,o i went aw and got the inerary, which is alsoather sil because with computer, u could make an itinerary rather eily. they let me in, and i was given a number. have hadn lineand i got numb. they put me together with this mber and told me to go to another window, which i did, where the ma said he will hav to comback tomorrow. her's a receipt for your passport, wch is always a frightening piece of per, and we wl have it ready at 11:30 tomorrow morning. he was quite a humorous person. i was there at 11:30. a very lg line ofeople, desperate ople, some of whom had airplanes to cat that very day, and the passports or not

granted. after anour, i wentver to one ofhe minutpoliceman in this place i do notnow whyhere are so many secury people there. said i wanted to speak to a supervisor. thaid i cld speak to the supervisor, who was at one of 19, but before yo could go there, y had to get in the line to get in number. like yesterday, anothenumber of. is is a terrible way to treat people. these are employs of the state depament at the passport agency. who know what they think they are doing bei so difficult? noonder manyeople are scare of the idea of getting eir medicine from the government. take a number stand in line is what we think, even if that is not going to be the case.

i have a wonderful panel of peopleo discuss the great ents of the day here today, and we will beack right after these messages. "white house chronicle" is produced in collaboration wi wh, ward unirsity telesion. now, the pgram hosts, nationally syndicad columnist llewellyn king, and co-host, linda gasparello >> hello aga and thank you for coming along. i promised you some gre people and here they a. we start with lie mason, of the "wasngton examir," the white house correspondt of that paper. lovely to ha you. brian kelly, the editor of "u.s.

news and world report," e of the new multimedia publications both on the web and th a monthly mazine. lovely to ve you back on the broadcast. for the first time, we have john -- juli mason -- john mulligan of the president's journal. -- the "provence journal." and linda kenyon, te us about salem radio. >> we are and national dio network. we have well over 1000 affiliate's across theountry, and my mn duty is to cover the u.s. senate. i also d 10 to join me somewhat olicsome our hou corresndents from time to time, when i served. >> most of the white hou is not very frolicsome these day.

we a all a little quiet in washinon because of the death -- espially journalists -- because of the death of senator kennedy. many of us ew him. i think john wrote a very beautiful piecabout him. what does it mean that he is gone? >>e shan't see his likegain, as they say in my hometown of boston. think undbtedly, it is the end of an era, which may exist for most of us in memy anywa but we are not going to see new crop of peoe who so skillfully blast away at the republican oppition one minute and then throw their arms around individual conservates to invite thefor a drinand make deal the next minute. >> why is that? why s that ability -- why is that gone from the cngress?

why is gone from the sene? >> i thinkhe culture h chged. i'm not rtain that it is altogether gone. there are six peoe, three of each pay sitting down still in the senate finan committee trying to write some sort of compromise on the health-care overhaul, but i do think the culture has changed. weive in a time of permanent campaigns very little in the way of sen day aeek residents of washington, d.c., who can socialize together or play cards. you said somhing about having a drink with him. that has sort of gone out. you do not see the drinking. at 6:00, everybody had aottle on the table and went teach other's office i remember that. if you were a favorite journalist, you uld get in and ha some of it your self. >>here is no more board of education. the joey club in house of

reresentatives. onhursday afternoons, senats and members ofongress are on their airplaneslying back to th district to make the rounds ofhe bar mitzvahs and the funeralsand whenhey cannot help b, the health-care extravaganza's. >> you did a little pilgrimage to places whe kennedy w? >> it was a vy strange atmosphere in the citol yestery. everyone had lg expecd that senator kennedwould be passing at some point. we knew heas gravely ill, and yet, somehow when we hrd the news that he had passed, it was inexplicably unexpecd, and it does not matter how ng people ha prepared theelves for it. it's still seem very strange walking into the buiing with all of thflags at half staff. already, you had st of a feing that washington is not

america had chaed, andalking inside, it was almost as if the aihad been sucked from the building. it seemedhat everything ha just -- a chapt had just completelyhanged. >> do yo think there will be any sense of how we shou try to get bk to what it used to be? do you think that this will have a long-term effect, or is it gng to be very partisan? >> things have changed quite a bi ihink it was former senar trent lott who recently t things inashington are not what theused to be. they have bece so lean, and the interaction, the partisanship between parties had ju gotte so much at loggerheads. its hard to see how there would be a way to break that. nator kennedy himself was very well known for managg to reach out across pty lines and make

deals i notice toee the big picturto get aiece of legislatn passed. many people said that h he been welenough to work on the netiations of heth care reform, rhaps there would have been an agreement right now because he had that gift of being able to work wi republicans and docrats to reach consensus. >> there is another who, and that was the ibility of the administration t get tom daschle's concern. they thought he an knedy would be ablto move tis thing through,nd of crse, these two genels were missing. >> the interesng irony -he is a complicated character, d did you look back, that which nnedy drove and in many ways really changed the tone of litics in wasngton, a personalttack -- it has become a cliche with politics of personal destruction, but much of that has its ros in canada

gog after board on what really was arguably a completely false basis, atcking him personally for positns that he d not ld and a number of other things. thathanged the senate, and i think that changed capitol hill. i remember being at those hearings. it struck me as totally not consistent withennedy, but he d that streak ihim. forll the accomplishments y see, he was a very divisive figure. when he put h flag and said it you did not suppor th, you are again the poo it anti-american, a lot of people's careers were me in opposition to ted kennedy. >> there is ather b gorilla in the rm now, and that is the deficit. suddly, we hav new numbe we cannot comprehend, trillions and trillions of dollarsn de. is this going to changehe litical debate? it is terrible forbama. we have the polls now shong that people acally do care

abt deficits. theyre very concerned about how it affts them. this is going toake it much hard for obama to get his enda through because the deficits are terribl >> i was speaking to a leral journalist -there are ch thin -- and he sd he has a ild and wonders about how fa down the line th debt will go. >> right, let me let the journalis are worried about a, you have aroblem. -- when the lefty journalists are worried about . >> does this mean the agea is inrouble? >> haso be. it is on target water. you are seeing so mucpush back on heah care, we have not gone to the serieparts of the ener bill yet. we havnot gotten to immigration refo. the things thaobama has as his signature, every sine one of them is about money. >> the deficit is ibig trouble, that is for sure, but on the other side of the ledger,

oba has put himself over a barrel he is very far out on a limb telling us about the things at he is going to do in health care d education and the energ front. if we go back toresident clinton opposes a first term and try to think about whatanks he got the deficit fighting, you ve to look pret far. the gratitude voters, giving things. >> and nowooks like a house in the irobable moment at the end othe clintonresidency when tre was a surplus for a brief time. >>f you remember a little before i1998 when it passed e balced budget andment, that was this bizarre comedy i washington. it was serious and ernest and good. chstmas of 1998, th had

pass the balanced budg. even gingrich and cnton were talkingo each oth. a few weeksater, monica melesky. so you have that brief moment where fiscal sanitdid make sensand it did show that there was a lot of plic support for thedministration, and it all fell apart. but it would be nice to sethat money does matter occasionally >> i wonder it wouldave laed. >> i believe it would. i think thatas a remarkable ment. the fiscal houas in order. lots ofthings were possible. i remember the clinton books lking about medicare refor and social security refm in the spring. that was theirig agenda. and th thought thate have the resoues to do it, and republics alike, "may be so." >> i justound it to be really intereing, and we are now at the por opposite. >> be balanced budget act of 1998 was more than anying in public health bill. they did not fix it up completely, but theyegan some

of the cbacks and doctors and hospital care is was part of psident clinton's program to the cremental reform. remember who was so bion that. >>his is to remind our steners of sirius xm radio that they are listeng to "white house chricle" wit julie mason myself llewlyn king of this program, brian kelly, of u.s news an world report, john mulligan of t providence joual, and linda keon of salem radio network. this program can be heard ery saturdayt 9:30 a.m. eastern time sirius-xm radio, cnnels 110 and 130. thcia -- here is another bomhell, depending on hoyou feel. the interrogation procures

seed to some of u to be brutal, ". how'd you read tha >> when i went through the fine print and release of dick cheney, i scratch my hdnd wonderhere the news was. we have heard quite ait about these selame teciques, whether th are torture or not, so i start to look at it in a polical. who is this ing to help? i just cannot imaginehat the presidenwants to be woying about torture eating up his new cycle wle he is riving to pass a healtcare plan. >> do yo feel about this? >> i was actually surprised that theortureemosnd the cia involvement innterrogations' did not really domina the news

cycle, perps because a lot of it was something we have already hear about or hadot previous semis. i think that hawe not have healthare dominating the headnes with theomewhat ockets town hall meetings tt have beegoing on, we wod have phaps seen an aulot more on e cia and theorture memos. >> also,ith congress on the ti, that brings the temperature way down on stuff like that. >>his is one of th tngs that is not a screaming headline, but it will with for a long time. thiss an inside washington viewed that " a bubble for nths. >>f you are a american citizen ting abroad for alleged spying or in a hoile action and military aion, you cannot expect ve many protections bause your

caors will feel tt they e entitled to do just about anything. >> there werblowing smoken people's facesarlier. one of the tkeaways from tha report is th it seemed to be --e alrea know most of it or all of it, and the outce of it is very -- a w select casesf maybe some things have crossed the line. why di eric holder go back to an issue that has already been instigated, aeady been passed out by juice, both commites on the hl? obama said he uld rather look forward and ok back, so he does not want to havanything to dwith it. >> h do you feel eric holder is doing? he seemsuite controversi as attorney general quite ear in his term. >> think his decion to appoint an investigator to look intohe cia and the torture memos and whater may come out them has perha been an issue th did not really

pleased thpresident. he wanted to distanceimself from it. >> but there is an element of hanging out out this. >> he has gone bke a little bit. >>here ia conce that this does set a precedent, th there will be presidential ministrations investiting previous administrations, an where does it en, a before you know,verybody is not so much worried abo the new jobs ashey are about being investigatednce they are no longer in their jobs. >> by unemploymt, despite the bad businessecisions, despite the economy bumping around at theottom of the tank, we ha a new national entertainmt town hall meetg. suddenly, television crews are stretched getting frotown hall meeting to towhall meeting because that is where you are gog to see theireworks. why is this, and what is goi

on? en in a tranquil rhode island where it is hard find a republican, tre have been a minori ofvoices saying to much too fast, my head is spinning. there is not a lot ofcreaming and shoung, but i think our representaves are bit sobered about the seriousness >> whatbout the pernicious half tths, as sebody has descrid them? >>ight, and they have reall taken hold. i thin it is a cris of leadership. why hn't the ainistration beenore affectedn a cabin on these rumors? i e it all over e place -- this is not te or fact checking. >> it is also inase the adnistration is dependent and in ottawa. theres no administration bill. >>here are fiveeparate

bis. nobody has actually see i finish product yet, so everybody is going to the town haeetings, and they are discussing a bill. so nothi has rlly been codified. >> the half uths are out there the non-truths. ve you been to one othese meetgs? has anybody been to one? >> we are not really in touch with those regular peopl i tched them on tv, though. aughter] it is great show. usually in aust, we are complaininabout the national ne shortage, and we a usually in crisis lookseeper something to cover. it has been great for that >> my theo is that rublicans and conservative who are not peop who grew up onhe rricades in picket lines, shout itut for freom -- they

wereoing it rather more quietly. suddenly, in middle-aged,they areinding all the eitement of bng at the barricades and being yelled, and it is revenating for them. >>here is fun to be d on the opsition side. the's a lot of things on the table nowand the predent may have los control,ut maybe n because most things n still get pulled together in the legislative proces he now hasultiple options. may say that we're gng to take from is bill, from this bill when it finally g to making sausa, whether he has that much corol or whether th thing has spun out control becausetad so much time to let the opposition still, that is what we are going to see in the ne few weeks. >> the proce of making laws is very much like the process of maki sausage. it is very ugly, andenator christher dodd has been on the house committee well senator kennedy was very ill. has said that sometimes y will come to an agreement in the

coerence committe, and sometimes u did not reach an agreement until yo are on the floo >> i get t fling that congress on this one is more like a jy, sitting there aring the evidence and then making up their nds. based on what they feelhese powerfullyeld positions are but what the represeed, we do not kn. >> it i not congss in a sense, b it is the sixr seven key legislators who actuallyet the work don which going backo kennedy, that iwhy he was good. kennedy's bestork was done sitting in a roomike this with s colleagues saying we're not going to take the provision. we areoing to give you thi and that is really where the business gs conducted. the boy that h has left is who steps in andoes that kind of work? its hard work. >> is one o the president's problems that he is not your on the hill? >> that is true, and i d not think he understas the bl

very wel -- he is not fead onhe hill. there is comparison bween him and lbj but he ds not ve that skill set at all. he doesot have that infence. he does not seeto understand how the players work togher or how to me things happen. >> he does not seeto have anything they want,o he cannot trade. they he and what he wants. this is not a good bgaining position >> they're just watching poll numbers go down and down in the chaos ensued and the lac of clear arculate leadehip. we have midterms cing up fast upon us. it changeshe dynamic. >>t the point where all forms a part in the next few weeks and months, which i'm ways fascinated b when do you think that is? when does heeally truly lose control? >> when they leave for christmas. >> or when something happens that puts him bk in charge. do you think there's a problem

that he is light but not cured -- peered f --eared? >> i think there's truth in both of those assertions, but ihink it is a ltle too early to write o the barack oba adnistration. i think in partecause now he s got to get health care, and so does the decratic party. there is going to be health re bill. it may n be as graiose as me have wished, but they will sele for bitand pieces, i think, and it might even be piecemeal. you might see parts of theill that senor keedy posy frien chris dodshepherded through the committee -- senator kennedy'friend chris dodd shepherded through the committee. limits the republicans but then, possibly,hey will wait unl later on to do some of the diffilt moneychanger trks and medicare trimming tricks in the finance committee,

which is where this ll is at least a ninal team of republicans and mocrats working together. it is time for our high points and low points mine is high point. just this past couple o days since kennedy'passing, we ha seen these medical retrospectes of old photogphs from the earlier era of democratic politics, and it has beeneally cynicis neutralizing to see these beautil images of the past, especially these bla and white ones. budweisers now brandi deal wi college logos. as it we needed another reason colle students to be drinking at football games. that is a low poin -- >> tha is low point? do you he a college-age child >> by chance > i do, a we're ping it does not make it to the point. >> i stted college when was 16and it did not have to be branded. weound it. >> t jt a college children

but all the children are going back to hool, and i call that a high point. right aroundhe same time, members of congress will lea the town halls andeturn to the capitol domeand that is all to the good. >> i would say it is sortf it what side -- a combination of a hi and low pointeing that it is e end of an era with the passing of the kennedynd the start of aew era. both sides of the same issue. >> but it really is the end of "those boys", joseph sons. i hao great love of t kennedy dynasty, but i'm sad to see it end in a way because it has alys been there, and one kennedy has always been inhe senate in my time america, which goes back a very long way now. that isur program for today. we hope you have an enjable

summer, whats left of it, and you can see us on the web at whchronicle.com. this program is now seen a nely 400 stations. we hope you see on onof them, and we will be back at the same timeext week. until then, cheers. captioned by the nation captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- >> "white house chronicle" is produced in collaboration th whut, howard university television. from washington, d.c.,his has been "whe house chronic" --

weekly analysis of the news wit insight and sense of humor, feating llewellyn king, linda gasparello, and guests. this program may bseen on pbs statio and cable access channels. view the program onlin channels. view the program onlin visit us at