>> rose: welcome to the broadcast. tonight we continue our vacation schedule by looking at the peopl who came to this table in 2009 with something to say about their passion an their work and their life. our subjt tonight, hot. thoseeople in the mia lare. they areoe scarborough. at our morning desk we get a l of the top fakers in the country and the world. and it is --. >> rose: who wouldn't be thrilled to dthat. >> ros and is that a more imortant role for you an say being -- well, what, like a senator fr florida. >> there's no doubt. >> re: evan williams, the founder of twitter. >> the desire to connect with other peop socially

is a bi one. and i thinkhat's why social networks ineneral are very powerful that's what pple care about billion almost more an anything else. >> rose: rahm emanue, chief of staff at the wte house. >> the white hou was a place to make that most immediate change. and cannot tnk of a better person to work for and help him see through his anda than psident obama. >> rose: in an houre call hot, those peoplen the media gle, joe arborough, evan willams the founder of twitter and chieof staff t the white house, rahm emuel. when we connue. funding f charlie rose has been ovided by the following:

>> ros additional funding focharlie rose was also provided by these funder a captioning onsored by rose mmunications frm our studios in new york city, this is chlie rose. joecarborough is here. he is the host of morning joe, the msnbc program that is attracting a growing ollowing. "newsweek" magazine compared the broadcast to somhing ke a seriou minded evening show still wearing his bathrobe and slippers. you like that. here is a look at morning joe. >> david gergenwho has been around aew presidents, republican and decrat alike has had posive tngs to say about president obama. but he faults him in the way he's run theadministration thus f. >> yeah. >> in what ways. >> he said really interesting thing. he said obama needs to appoint a really od managefor the stimulus pakage that at money hasn't gotten spent fast

enough. >> n't mr. biden ing i at. >> he sa that under fdr, dr had managers moren charge of the tim lus who didn't have other responsibilitieand got pore done more quily. >> do you reale there are conservatives, repubcans that we, you areur magazine. >> we e very populain the military. we get a lot of sdiers reading us d a lot of mail fr them and hear back from a lot of em. >> okay. just sayinonce in a while, well actually youhad pj o'rourkin the '80s there was a conservave guy had some greatrticles. >> ihink coervatives like to read us to disagree wih us. >> that right. just like wi "the new yk times", i buy two copies, one toead and one to burn in my backyardfter i finish reading it. >> rose: before h broke into television, joe scarborgh was a republican cgressman from florida from 1994 to001. he recently mappeout a comeback strateg not for himselbut for the gop. the book iscalled the lt st hope resting coervatism and america'sha amased to have m

back at this tle. welce. >> sorry you had to bring e. >> i joy hearing the stories out the ball gi la time here. (laughter) >> rose: w are you differt today? >> you kw, i think -- i think i know now in 2009 what i dn't know in 1995. > rose: i hope so. >> and ironically, i'm counselling my liberal democratic friends, sang just relax. you know, ihought 1995 en we conservatives took over coness, we owned the world. that w could pass atever we wanteto pass through the house. the senate would confirm it. it would go tohe white house, be signednd it would be l. and what i found out was james mason was a pret smart guy. we darted further right than amica was ready to go. and you ha moderat republicans and democts in the senate. it sort ofhiseled off the edges of tt agenda. the same thing's happening now. and docrats have goneoo

far left. thespent too much money. they're movi faster th the middlef american political thought is ready to go. and there learning th same lesson. >>ose: are they doing that because it is their ideaologic place or are they doi that because they look this economic crisi nd they are puing all the strings they know. >> listen, what bara obama is doing is what ronald reagan ted to do in 1981. what bill clinton tried to do in 1993. and the first year, they have lood at history. and yohave a honeymon period. you try to get as much done quickly as you can get de because you know after the first year, it's long, hard sl. so that is what he is trying to do but the probm is what america wantsim to do is focus on as mike barnacle says, three thin. jobs, jobs and jobs. but also barac obama is lited by what happened over the past eight years. >> george w. bushnd the republican congress ran the

debt uto about $11 trillion. barack obama's frst budget was vy expensive, it doubled the debt. his projecons, and americans just aret ready to go that f. >> rose: the book "reoring onservatism america's promise" basically i an indictmentf the bush admintration. >> well, yeah. i mean it's --. >> rose: from main stree conserveism. >> it is an indicent of republicanism. itn indictment of people being more intested in keeping the replican party in power than dog what they said they re going to do when theyet to washington i mean we got ected i 1994 by saying we're goi ow restraint. we're going to show restraint in spending. we're going t try to balance theudget. rose: contract in america. >> we argoing it to not engage in litary adventurm, show restraint i entitle -- entitlements and we did that. we psed well fareeform, we balanced the budget. we did try to restrn what

military adventuris you look at the bh ministration, on all three of the counts they take $155 blion surplus, th turnt in to $.5 trillion deficit. the ta an entitlement system, medicare especial that is going banupt,they add a $7 trillioliability to it, the medicare drug benefiplan. and i think most damaging t this countrat home and abro, they take colin powell'sepublican view of how 're supposed to condu ourselves o an international staysyou know, th powell doctrine, the winerger doctrine, we talk about this before, we sho restraint aoad. we don't goto battle unless it's the las possib tion. but when w go can --. >> rose: but then go with full force with the publi behi it. >> as colin powell id when we goo war, we n't want aar fight. tony said he wrote a memo saying d't go into iraq

unless you ar going to have 35000 troops. if you don't go in with full force, we're going to have a mess onur hands. he prected it. >>ose: right. >>nd a lot of the smart generals that have bn in iraq before predicd it. for so reason donald rumsfeld didn't wanto sten to the generals that won the fst iraq war. and instead we decided we're going to win the war onhe heap. charlie, there's nothing conservative about that. there's nothing conservati about spining this cntry in debt. there is nothing conservative about putng us $7 miion in debt in entitlement that n conservative >> rose: is tony and colin powell the more reblican you identify wit than say newt ngrich? >> well -- (laughter) >> let me put it this wa let me put it ts way. no, m going to putthis wa newt gingrich can win statewide electis in georgia. colin powell c win atewide elections in nnecticut. we don have colin powells

or tony zinnis in our party any more. well, we'veot a few, olympia snowee. >> rose: she w very good this morni. >> so goodn the show but for eryone that wants to kick colin powell out the party, i sayow really think --. >> re: that is rush limbaugh, isn't it. >> well, its a lot of people. i went out on myook tour and i watrying to expla to pple, if you want to be a tional party ain, you got to win a st or two n england. and let me ll you mething, people whoook like me and talk like me from thsouth, we're probably not going to do well in northeast harva maine. colin powellith. olympia sowee wi. tony snowwill. >> i just tew that out there. i own northeast. i'm sure iwould be just like e book tour. vote for him >> okay, if yo say so, okay i will ve for him but they kicked colinowell out of the party is insane i learned on the book tour t is fascinatingpeaking in new england. ha lot of people come up to me, a lot of older

gentlema especially come up tme and say i ud to vote for republicans when they wereikeou. i said i'm really conservative. >> yeah. >> rose: . >> i like a libearian i'm so consertive. >> no, no, no, no you're not a ter. and what irealized on this book tour, t things. one good,ne bad. the good thing is that moderate its, en people left of cere will listen to you if you don't come to them and tell them barack obama say mmunist and son sotomayor is a racist. they willisten to you and you n have a debate on philosophy >> rose: who saithat sotomayor was a racist. >> i frget now. i played a lot football, charlie. aot of republicans said she waa racist. >> rosesome of your friends. >> sad on the other side, you call th my friends. dly, on the other side, like hard-core republicans. >> roseright. >> let me st tell you. i ll say it right he. are not as conservatve as me. certainly not on spendg. certainlnot on military adventurism. a lot of these people

woul't listen to me because i didn't clobama a commust. because i didn't call sotomar a racist. i mean style h a lot to do. i an there are some people -- on the har right and hard left that expect to seeing aner and expecyou to play hardll. and if youon't, you you're not a real conservative or progreive. >> rose: on the qution that rolling stone was talking about, leadership. >>eah. >> rose: rack obama, six months, how do youssess t leadership first. >> it is, you ow, it's a split decision for me. foreign policy, couldn't expect more. >> rosesame thing jimmy bakesaid. >> did he on foreignolicye's the rst realist we've had in the white house, least judging by his aks ove the fir sick months sce bush 41. he -- he takes all the information in. he doe't dart wildlyight

or left. su, his rtoric is a bit more proessive. but that's his rhetor. in reality hes, he is the first realist at least over the first six months. domestically i -- i don't think he's shown leadership at a. and i say that because ive been veryisappointed. i have been disappointed --. >> rose:ecause he is givi too much power to congress. >> exacy. he turn thed the stimulus packa over to nncy pell osoy. e biggest bill in the htory of this country, the biggest spding bill, yet rember he set up david axelrod and larry smers. went up to the hl. they sd this is our outlinehich was an ouine th a lot of rublicans said we could live with hat. and congre told him no. nancy plosi no, we're to the going tbe bipartisan. we'rin power now. a larry summers cme out and saidessage received they turned it over nancy pelosi and --. >> rose: part othat also was reaction, perhapsn overreaction twhat clinton

had done onhealth care. >> right. you got to becareful also speaking of jimmyarter and tip o'neill. one ofhe reasons why tip o'neill didn't like jimmy caer is because he didn't believe the new preside, this fre face from plains, georgia,as shing him proper respect. >> rose: smany presidents come twashington, especially if they haveeen gernors, somehow they want to be perceived as an outsider. >> uh-huh. >> rose: and at someoint someone help them understand in order get bills passed, in order to be an effective force, you have to havesome relationshiif not accommation to the way washingn works. >> exactly. dow have to. >> ros you understand at. >> you do ha to accommodate. the president has to deal wh congress, no doubt about it. t you start with the timulus package and i think anothe mistake cap and trade. nancy pelosi pulled barack obamanto the p and trade debate. a debate he shouldn't have been pled in to if health care really was his number one agenda im. he got pulled into that mess. d there's been a lot of noiseeading up to health care. so by the time hgets to health care, he's upside

down on the deficit deficit. he's upside down on the size of fedal government's growth. 's upside down on the poll numbers on a lot of issues that's making his b a lot ore difficult right now. >> rose: you think public option is bad idea in health-care reform? >> i think so, yeah. >> rose: you like the coop rative ide >> well,ure, i do. the problem is, for the president --. >> rose: tell me, governor. >> well, no, i -- if you wanto know the truth there's nothg in the constitution, chaie --. >> rose: i do wt the truth. >> i'm going to tell you th truth. you wa the truth. you can't handle the tth. we don't have t --. >> rose: thankou, jack. >> we don't have to do everythingn 2009. >> rose: y were a marine pilot. >> i'm a constitional wyer. i know theonstitution forward and bacard and i can ll you as a guy without -- >> rose: frida. >> book to con law cls, i know of what ipeak. the is nothing in the constition that says you have to get everything done in 2009. >> rose: the you go. >> he doesn' have -- to swallow --. >> rose: but you sai political reity is you need to do as much as you n because you have less

effectivess afterwards so you have two competing ideas running head on at each other. >> theroblem is this president has burned tough a remaable amount o litical capital over the first six months. >> rose: has he really. >> yeah, heas brauses his popularity is still high and much popar than his position. >> yh, i'm just lking out any big spending bill, he's going havsome pblems. i think really the best thing can do right now if iere advising him, and of course i' not, i would say gressively go after consumer protectns. taking care of preexisting conditions. allowing kids stay on insurance until they are 25 or 2 >> rose: and dsomething abt foreclosures and l that. >> all of that. focus on consumer protecti. get as much ayou can get now and when t economy turns around i 2011, then go back. >> rose: what's gog on in red state amera? there's anger out the right now. > rose: about? >> the economic condition o the countr andut is it morepopulist. >> you know, it is just a --.

>>ose: a sense thaare you goin out those people on walstreet and to the bailing out us. >> go back to '92 and '3. there's so much tha reminded me of '92, '93. you kw, bill cltonon in 1992 becse, you know, we hit the reset button on the economy. wewent from an industrial age. we were transforming to an inrmation age. take three or four years until we get there and so bill clintonealt with that anger. whene didn't respond the wapeople wanted him to spond in 1993 ande struck them araditional liberal, who rose, ros perot. and ddenly you had these wt was it, up with america, w or up with people, whaver perot' group was called. millions of people got involved in the polital process in '94. the same thing has happened here. we've h the reset buon. we're not going to an econy that is madly driven by consumerism. so people elect the agent cnge, barack obama in 20. what they'veeen in 2009 has been a traditional,

liber, deck cratic appach. and so i think there's some anger out there. t's not, listen, it not overwhelming yet. it's certainlynot like it was with ll cliton in 94. but certaiy the warning signs are there for e oba administration. they need to respond well in th next six mons. >> rose: how have you changed? i me you explain to me how you ink how you see theyo world. buyou, has being in the center othis media thing, is it dierentk than litical attention? i mean is it less, ist mo, is it more mfortable? >> it's a lot more fun not having to wake up at 5: every mornin and saying what your local newsper's writing about yo >> rose: or spending lot of time on t phone raising money. >> that, oh, yea no, this is -- is is -- butou know what, thoh, charlie, m the show,t's like, we talked about thibefore. >> ros right. >> you and i, lt's not tell our bosses, we'rehe luckiest gs in the world. >> rose: i know. wants because at th desk and at our morning desk we get lot of the top in

thcountry and the world. d it is -- who wouldn't be thrilled to do that. >> rose: and is at a more important role for you than saying about a well, like, ike a senator from florida. >> theris no doubt. >> rose: a more important frorl you than bei a senator of florida. so yosay to the people of florida i can be serve you not by running for ected office butby running morning e. >> thank god i don't have to say that tohe people of for dach all i have to do is talk to my wif and see how she. rose: how does shevote on that. >> she wants me tstay out of politics >> rose: that ishe reason you le, was it, mosy. well, no, i had two boys that --. >> rose: that is what i mean family. >> yeah, yeah, family. but you know. >> rose: now you have a larger family. >> ey just keep growing. iot 47 kids now. but you know --. >> rose: arting with willie >> yeah extly. he is o troubled child, starting at 5:30 every moing, you got to wake up and see if he is doing all right. but yoknow, i hadome republicans approach me, asked me ii would be

interest in running for senate this year. >> rose: sure. >> and i called a cole o political iends that i respect. and everybody had the same concsion. you have aot more influence, you have lot more reach and yoare hang a lot more fun dng at you do every mning than you woulbeing the 99th or 9100th senator in the mirity in siority. >> rose: evan williamsere, the ceo an co-founder of twitter. it one of th fastestit growingites on the internet. witter combines social networking with a new trend call microoging. use communicate uing a mamum of40 characters, though less than 3 years old, twitter las an estimated millionsers. on-line communications is something williams kns a lot abou befe twitter he founded blog.com, one of the most. lar bloging plforms. i very pleased to he him on this vit to san

rancisco to join us at this table fothe first time. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: great to have you here. >> pleasure to be here. >> rose: why do you thin itter has had this extraordinarsort of, not only growth but popularity and visibility andalk. >> it's something tell you th truth, thai can't fully explain. i an i think the product's great i think it's compelling. the level of attention has been a little surising. >> rose: all ous want you on our show,ll magazines want to write about you. all newspapers want profile you. >> i think twitterombines a lot of -- it distills lot of what makethe internet excitinginto a very simple form. d it's about people connecting. and it really provides people with new way to communicate that didn't exist. anas my co-under likes to s, it gives us a way

that we didn't know we need. >> rose: exactly right. >> and it feels very natural. once you have it, it's like well this is a perfect compment to everythg el. >> rose: explain how it wos. >> it's veryimple. although not obvious. what you do is you send an update or a tweet as th've me to be known. >> re: first you have to join the site and firstof ll by joining the site, you ave access to what? >> you ha access to a few millio people'sweets, whoever you nt to tap into and keep up with. >> rose:eah. >> a they're not even all people. they're mpanies. they're sports teams, ey're media organizations. and friends and peop you may just want know about >> ro: so if i want sd out tweets, if i'm joining, i'm aember and want tsend out tets i can choose. >> u choose. so it is dierent tn -- it looka lot like a social network but it'sctually funmentally different in how the relationship

structures work. > rose: explain. >> so a social network like febook being the classic example is about finding - encapsulating re world connections with wre we know each other. we say we're frnds on the soes soal network and then we can communicate a it's o-way. twter is anacin cr us relationship mel. so i can be interest in you and you are sending dates. you don't know who the heck i am. or you jt don't care about my updats. and you ignore me. >> rose: wheas if i was on social netwoing and you wanted to be myriend, i uld have to confirm. >> ye. >> rose: but here i don't know who is getng it. just the people withou want it can get it. >> right. it's much morepen. and it crees a different kind o dynamic. so what yoare doing is you are just kind of putting stuff out there and sort of like you wld put stuff out on the web or on a blog. but it's much faster and more constrained than that.

>> rose: constrainedecause it's only 140 chacters. >> yh, constraed because it is only 140 characters. and no pictes,othingut pure tt. >> rose: okay. but at happened at the time of the crash in the hudson of the flight. that's one of the other phenomenon twitter is you can actually post pictures through third pay. what you do isost a link to anying. so it can be web sitea pictur there is a service called twit pic which is one of ma - they're at least 2000 different programshatan send twitr updates. and ty use -- they're third party velopers who haveompletely on their own built softwa that pls into twister. and they have ne it for posting pictur, twiering from an ihone or black berry o from a windows or mac lenux compur, lmost anything you can imagine now has a twitter interface and all built b

thd party develers. so that is onof the phenomenonthat twitter has tapped io, i think because again it's s simple, tt people just bud all nds of thingsround it. >> rose:hat i love aut it is it's instant. i mean you had a senator tweetg while the president was addssing the congress. >> rig snoo one of his clost friends. >> right. >> rose: claire mccaskill, the senator frmissouri. sitting there -- and whoever wanted to get that, could get it >> exactly. and at really shows the benefit. it's not about per friend -- her iends, it's her constituentor whoever is interested inhat is going on right then. and twitter, the real-time aspt is really one of the in benefits. an that -- part ofhat is becau the content is so short it wit both be written and sent insntly. and weuse sms and other technogies to really take

advaage of that. and that's what makes it intesting. en in the mundane suff when it's no the presiden, 's not a senator. but it's yourrother who lives across the country, you know,aying thei are painting the garage. it's n interesting to hr later that heainted the gar ac. but to hr in the momt that that's happing,. rose: the call of it. >> is wh we are talking about in rms of soci networking, in terms of itter and tweeting, is it at the essence of where sor of the internet revolution s he idea of community. the idea that you can take this remarkable tool and u it to eate a community tha brings you friendship as well as information, as well as sometng else. >> i think it does all of that. >> rose: but how powerfuof a force is it in terms shaping thway the internet is u today. >> i think it's tremendously

powerful. i think what e internet how e interheat has evolved over times to more efficiently tap the mot basic human desires. and they vary a lot buthe desire to cnect with other people sociall is big one. and i think that is why social nworks in general are ve po we -- powerful. that's what peopleare about alst more than anythi else. >> rose: project this forward fiveyears. how will it be diffent? all of it. >> well, it's hard to imaginhow theechnology is going to be vastly different. i'm suret will. think a lot of it that will be- the ways it will be different is culturally. and soeople will be used to th mode of -- remember when blong

stard, it seemedvery strange to people, that just anyoncould write something onhe web. how dare they have the nerve to thinkhat someone would wa to read it. and now at least, i le in the san francisco bubble but it seems likeeople generallaccept sure, at's a thing that normal people do. carly, fcebook anyspace are a thi that norm peoe do. but theris still sort of a, well, why would u put yourself out tre like th. so i tnk people in general are learning that living a bit more publly, a bit more transparently can have actually really powerful positive effects. you --ou met people, you are provided with new opportunities. you have ju the abilityo express yourself ofhat is going on. it can b narcissistic and

it cane completely ego-driven. but it can also be just a authentic,pen way to live your li. >> rose: itweeting an internatnal phenomenon? it is. only aut half our users are in the u.s. rightnow. >> rose: rely? >> hf. japan is really bigor us. the japese is the one language we've translated the site to. b it was actually, we translated because it g biin japan first it. the u.k.s actual explodecently. u.k. is the second biggest. and ithink canada and germany and brazil is creeping . rose: some have suggesd for wile there, maybe still, you had a probm with crashing because there s so much usage. >> we did we had aterrible first year and a half, actuay where the site wentown a lot and was ow a lot and itook us a long time to getut of that. it almost killed us, i think >> rose: let's talk abt the company as business.

it is reported know i'm unlikely to get anywhere on this. facebook wanted tbuy you r anywhere between $300 and $500 million, a, s there an offer from facebook. >> we talked to facebo, yeah. >> rose: and is this valuation in the balark? >> i can'tomment onhe valuation. >> rose: why did you me theecisionnot to sell? >> well we thought about it carefully. and i n't say, you know, offers are in various forms of seriousnessnd who know appromates if, you know, ey would have done it. but our analysis was carefully coidered. we're forepfit company. we have outside investors that have toook at these deals. but i never ft like it s the best thing fo twter. it really, it just sms way too early. we have alot of momenm. there's - thers tons of

resi we don't make money. lots of things could go wrong. but the potential is so great tt to stop now even at a big win fnancially, would just fl like aoss. >> rose: monetizing the question that evybody asks. how do you monetize th? >> we don't knowor sure. but we have some ideas. it's going to, think like the product itself, it's going to have to evolve over ti. we're going to try thingits and seehat works. but we'r encouraged by a couple of thin. one is that i uld say three things. one is ion't think the is a question of can it make enough mey to survive bause i thinkhere's a lot of -- people talk about how ll twitter ever make money. sort of thisentality still that internet bubble 1 boy ere things disappeared becae they got hyped too much d then didn't make mone now there isly an economy built into the web.

tt is much more real and there'a scale that makes it. so isomething's popularit probably w't go -- it probably won't disapear because it can'make a ney. that doesn't really hpen any me. o the question is there a killer business modhrill? or just a survivalable busine model there. and what we're encouraged b ishe fact thats mention, there is a lot of commercial usage already. so and we could charge users at some poin or charge for extra features whi a lot of companies d weould obviously implement some sortf advertising which we do none of right now. if do that intelligently, could be a winfor usrs d -- and make money for companies that pay for it justike google figured out how to do. >rose: on the other hand google haslso figured out, i think, and have suggested at least in some ples that i have read that th social networki is not the advertising vehicle they thought it mht be. >> right. >>ose: it's not a place. ople who enaged --ho e using social network are

not sort of likely to look at the ads. >> i think at is right. and you kn, twitteray be more like at. ut there'shis informational mponent to twitter thamakes it a little bitess like a pure social cmunication tool. i thi social communications are reay hard to monetize. formation-seeking activities are much ezer -- easier to monetiz google being th ultimate example. twit certifica somewhere in beten because of the fact that get my dad's tweets but i also get -- i also willosearches and find out wt people are ying about theatest iphone. >> rose: ght. >> se: i'm in washington withahm emanuel jst days after e november ection. president-ele barack obama namehim to be hichief of aff. it is one of the most powerfu positions in the american government. he is no stranger to washington.

he serve as a seor aisor to psident bil clinn before being elected to congressin 2002. he quicklyose in adership and was credite for leading hou democrats as they retook ntrol of congress in 2006. despite chance to eventually become perhaps speaker of the house, rahm emanuel regned his seat a president-elect obama's request. e two men share a close relationship, forged together in chica where they both bega their political career when aouncing the appotment, the president-elecsaid, quote, no one i know is bett at getting things done tha rahmmanuel. rahm emanuel also co-authored a book cled "the plan, b ideas for americ you can nowead it. it is out in paperbac i amleased to have him ck on this program, what has to be an extraordinarily busy timfor him. thankou. >> thank you charlie. >> rose: great to s you. >> nice toee you. >> rose:ell me why the presidenelect wanted y in this job. because he had to tell you

in order to cvince you to leave somethinghat you loved. that is -- we, first of all t something i lov. i loved coness. and it was great job serving the constuents of the noh side of the city of chicago. was not so much what he said to , althoh de make a persuasive casabout working f him. but i think as we talked a little earlier before the show srted, he diday out and we talked manyimes through theampaign, periodically, that this is a moment of peril fr america, and also a moment of possibilityor america. nd that we're -- where you could affect chae the most. and when you weigh that, although clear congress has its appeal to me personally, andou can make change from congress and you

c just see it just tis ast week, thathe typef ings that we wanted to do, both o/9 us, but it's his presidey, is the pce you can most impact people lives, leave your thmb print, ere they can improvtheir lives and he that most immediate impt is from th white house. and altugh i gave something up psonally for my career and ao personally, i think --. >> re: in chicago. >> yes, that the whteouse washe place to make that mt immediate change. and i cannot thi of a better person to work fo andelp him seehrough his agenda than president oma. >> rose: you seem to be different. >> nass's becse i'm fully mecated. (laughte >> rose: on what? >> sleep, sleep drivation. >> rose: sleep drivation. 's co. you em to be hot. >>h-huh. >> rose: he is from the left. you seem to be from the

center. you're a different religions. you have different educational backgrous. you hav wanted different things in your life. >> wel first of all, let me go atheremise, a little. first of all, we do share a lot in common. >> rose: chigo, politics. >> chicago, the passion that politics is about place of possibility. but we're also both children of immigrants. and that the nion that thiss a special country that has given us speal opportunity. and although you've noted differencein style, i don'think in the core whye chose a lifeof puic service. again, thiss his presidencynot mine, et cetera. but our frndship and our see of, as forme colleagues, i aa member of congress, him as a senat, but our frienhip is in that same sense what

polits can do for people. and yeah, we ha different style. >>ose: how would you aracter eye the difference? >> well, but to the substance, i actually don't -- one thing thai would slightly disaee. you say i'm of the center, and he's o the left. i wld say both of us are about the future. >> rose: and it has no label. >> not ly doesn't it have any labebut it doesn't matterhich road you take to gethere. as long as it's about buildi a future tt is stronger and bett for the people that you serve. you asked a question about --. rose: how would you fine the differees in terms of persolity and tempment. because hi campaign had t famous slogn, no drama obam >> uh-huh. >> rose: you are infamous in this town for drama >> well, le me say this. i thin what we do share, stylisticically, is a sense of mbe i'm mor expressive oit.

a sense of impatience to get things done to help peoe. i am -- amyy wife always sqloks if we had a foth child she woul like to name it patience t would be btle, regular reminder and ybe it would seep in. but you know what, i give you an example, you know this, charlie. i care deeply aut the children health bill. elped negotiate itor presidenclinton. on the floor, 10 miion children whoseparents work full-time and don't hav health care. i'm not sure when a you fighting against insurance companies patience is a virtue. i think for those kds whose parents work full-time, they deserve sobody without can get the and work, who is a little impatientto rock the system to get it done. a the truth is, president-elect obam knew at he was doing whene s hiring me. i mean h knew what he was gettin >> rose: h clely knew that one of ththings he said was i need somebody to ver my back and you're that. >> absolutely. this is about lolty.

we have done a l together as colleagues. we've dona lot together as friends. and my b is to se through his agenda. and make sure not on it pass congress, thatart the agenda. at's one piece of pennsylvania, you know, the two sides of pennsylvania avenue. but it's also there is another road at leadsnto e oval office and that is from the oval office out a that's to main reet. and make surehe people on main stre know they have a personho gets up every day, rollup their sleeve and try to make sure that their voicesre heard in that office. so my job is to make sure that -- d there are parts of the job that are different. ere not just one piece of it. you are an advisoryou are a counselo you are a pers who implements an agenda. you are a personho makes the staff rse to make sure the presidt's agenda gets through. and also that he has all the options availab to make ose choices. so there's differe -- and sometimes you are an ambassador for him. so there are dferent parts of that. and it requires different skill sets, each of those thin. and certainays you wi be

good at. certain ds you won't be. the miion, to make sure what preside-elect obama sees for this country d wants to s for this country is executed both from his white hous staf through congres, and also the american people ow what that vision is so they c follow through andee how he can help the, a, improve their live and change america's standing in the world was was it important to him that y were apowerful figure in congress andhat you knew the congress and knew that what he was going to need, especially with democrats, is somebod who knew them and could speak their language ia way that th could understand? >> a little way through is interview m wondering whetheyou should have him answer these questions rather thame. ook, we had talked -- i mean knows what i had one in congress to help us win both the congress, as well as help us inhe only win the cgress but help us move an agenda through. he kno that what i had done working ithe white house before. and he also knew that i had prite sector experience.

and tt i saw throh --. >> rose: in the nking busess. >> in the fincial sector, yes. y know, i'm remined, let me just divertor one secretary. joshbollton, prident bush's chief ostaff, had inarlier december a breaast forll the chiefs of staff to come together. i don't think they ha done that. there were 13 people ther, includingormer secretary of defens rumsfeld, vice president cheney was there, howar baker was the. ken duberstein, leon panetta, sam skier. i'm leaving others off i don't want to do that. an card was there. secretary rumsfeld sai you know, your advaage is that none of us had were th you wer here before. and that you had workedin congress iaid yes, all thosassets are als my liabilities. all the memrs of congre kw you as a first-me basis. i can't be the head of the

legiative affairs. i have to be chief o staff. theknow me as colleague i know their distric that is an advantage. having worked in the white house beforn your mi's e, your dna is wired for guy you us to work for. i'm wking for a new person so you got toework,ew rewire. >rose: tell me about that. at's fascinating. >> why is that fascinating. >> re: because you have to rewire. you rked for bill clion. now you work r barack obam so you haveo rewire. he wol definition of rewiring means i goto chan because this is a different guy. >> well, i think -- well, it's h presidency. and younow, making that change, but you have to -- you know, let mery to illustrate this with the clearest example. this is to t going to come f well. you could brief president clinton before a press confence. weave, you know,t his desk, doing cross ward puzzle ncaa march madness is over here, you know sothing else, the one lls are coming in . president, let's get

this down to the one, two, three. and n have all that imuli coming in and he, you know, a you would have to kd of knock on the doo rip it apa, get it done. at one point early on we were trying to prep before a press conferce and i with president o et's get this down to one, two, tee. he says i got it. so you got to kind of -- i was kind, the old dna was comi through. nd you realize he's got a very -- u know, predent clinton would ha a lot of stimuli going on all around, a there, crossword puzzle, you are trying to prep for a presconference. somebody is saying so-and-so isn the phone. he is, and he has very cool sens about what it is he wan to counicate, how he wants to communicatit. and he knows whe he is on that stuff. so you got to rebuyer to the persontheir style, their substan and their vision. and i think, you know,e've worked very closely over the last six weeks, we're getng there. >> rose: what surprises him about you. let me say this about the

last election which i thought was fascinating. and i don't ever remeer it ever happening in amerin history, or at lea recent american history, let's leave it that way. and i have said is i think to y charlie, before, is presidt clinton s a baby boomer, preside bush was a baby boomer am our nomins before al gorend john kerry, both baby boomers. they --his not an insul. i'm not -- with john mcin, they went back a neration. and with president-elect obama, our party went ahead generation. no t parties a the that time, in a moment of time in an election went thisay, split. but you could see w part of the future. the cntry was changg. it refcted the type of change that he was. >> rose: you know what its as to me ishat boy, this economic crisis is even worse than you iagined it was. and that you, every day you lo at things th are alarming and you know it's goto be the,ou know, the riveting focus of what you do. and th you have got to be repared take some

dramatic steps that u never imagined you would have to . but you have seen t danger. you have seen how deep unemployment could go. you have seen how diffilt it is to gethe cret mark moving. >> charlie, one thing, my op rative tory is you never allow serious cries toys go twaste. it is an portunity to d big things b it an opportuni where you think u couldn't do something because ople know this is a moment of peril. bualso a moment of possibility. i tnk we are inhiting, we as a country, not just e administration ad the coness, a country in the worst economic condition sincthe great depression. the greatest commitment of ameran troops overseas since 8 and the ight of vietnam. thats the moment in ti in americ historyow. i think that you will see that his vision is toegin to turn the economy around working agaifor the middle

class of this country because u can't have a strong econy if you don't have a strong middle class. and puing in place a policy at not on produces jobs tday but competitivenesfor the future athen as you had ted earlierthat not just deal with iraq and afghanian, but most importtly, the hger that is aroundhe world for america's leadersp to once again restore not just ou position, they a hungering for us lead by example. and i think that at ts time t country, the wld is watching d as much as erica is hopingfor president-elect obama's success, the worlis hoping for it. because they crave america's leaderip at this time. ono manyronts and have been waitinfor it. >> rose: because they also think the proble are so large that theyannot solve them bo aerica's cooperation an help. and they wan leadershi >> ameca is that indispensable nation for freedom. and w have a person at a uniq time in history w represents much going in this country. and so much of the possibility of whawe can do aund the world.

>>ose: what will he want to say inhe inaugural adess? what wilbe the tone. >> that everybody sould watch charlie re. >> rose: yes, hope so >> i think yur ratings ar fine a t of it we talked about. i think, mean --. >> se: but what is important. you've got to have some opportunity. at we have to dos nnect on this level. >> well, i thin that first of all it to t different th what he talked about in the campaign i this sense. >> rose: or in other speeches. >> you know, lk, so much of the business a financialeadership this country t the country wn. that athing, the culture of anything goes dominated washington, dominated e rporate sweets, and parents of the leaderip of this country. and that if you are ingo ask america to take responsibility for thei couny, the leaders have to lead by emple. and they too he to be responsibl and that feeliof

responsibility can't juste a lec fewer to the american people where they were o theconomic or social stra. bu it must also be lead by example by leaders of this country both in the public and private spres, that they too have to n adopt a ilosophy and a culturef responsility. rose: participation, responsibility and sacrife. >> and so whene talks about, younow, everybody is going to have to give something for the grter hole is once again kind of touching th nerve or that sense in america not only respsibility that this is a greatestountry, we're all luckto be american citizens. but to havehat greatness you have to gve something to your country. d that is at i think you'll see in this. >> rose: an he will also talk abo hehas also said with george sephanopoulos that he understands, you know, at there may be time for a grand barin. and the gand bargain ha to do with tax cuts. it has to dwith the stimulus program. it has to do with entiements. it has to do with a nge of

things. well, i think the basic structure and conceptualization of that is that while we make these bold investmts in our health care odernization, our school modernization, the reforms that we need, they he to be coupled with fundamenta reforms of the way we do business you can't afford any more $300 billions of cost overruns at the dfense departmentn an annual basis. that just notacceptable when other people are being asked to tighten their bes. but youan't continue to afford a health-care syste where we subsidize pas of corporate america abovthe price thayou can get for a better price. for $200 billion that just can't go on. and s while ask andake these bold invtments and ake on the responsibility of not only creating thesein jobbut modernizing america's fundamental infrastructu, that we also got to chae the way waington does its business and you can't aept well, that's how it used to happen. it's just acceptable. and so there is fuamental forms that have to haen

in the delivery, being more effective of tt. savgs that have to be made. yes, we'll take on tho entlements but you can't come to the tale with what you won't acpt. with the oppounity of what do we haveo do to make the change that it necessary. >> rose: it is clear that when you lk at all the range of issues, that he reechls out to hear people who ar opposed to hi he wants to have dinner with geoe will and charles cladhammer a bill crystal ani'm not sure who was here. beuse he wanted what? to knowhat people who in print had beenpposed to him, though of what he was doing or to see wha ideas they had about, or have their view of e world was different from h or -- >> you heard him in the prs conference the other day. he said, i welcome ideas, there isot only one way to soe this problem. now what's n negotiables 3.6 million jo. you have aood idea? f it's -- that is exact his words. who h sat down with as y

sa conservative columnist hat are their ideas. we had a -- there was a dinn the other night her the wilson center organized byee hamilton. >> rose: right. a group of foreign polic people outside o his national secury apparatus. he wanted to engage i gave new example. we had this decision made on the financial legislati. i don't want to keep comg back to it but it wasne her person's idea, the spker, to get it out of the way, deal with it now, and itade him rethink so he likes to be challeed splelly. likes to get out and challenge the assumptions conventional tnking. is easy in the white house to get a group think going. he wants that, he wants the best of his avisors toive him knowing that it isnot going to just be a mind melt. but he's willi to reac out an be challenged on a s of assumptions.

he mayecide to then say here's where we are, not m but he is not intimidated by an intellectual challenge from those who have a different view. and i think that's welcomeed. >> rose: i also he you saying and what happened in the senate an example of thatxh that he wants to be ld not only because he thinks theime is demande but because it's the nature of the peon. >> there's no doubt. ihink views -- this is a moment of peril but that peril also a nugget of possibility. and you can't getto that possibilitwithout a boldne of action. and you have se it to date. you've seen in his llingness on the policy lel, offerifferent ideas to get there. and welcome a slew of different ideas. i think one of, i'm projecti but i've had ough conversations, i think, with membef the

otheparty, that i tnk theyelcome the openness o eir approach. knowing fullell you may not always agree. but that at least we're gog toistennd take scerely a set of ideas. >> rose: and he is prepared to go over their hds if necessary as ronald reagan did because he knows he has a rhetorical gift that servedim in the campaign, probably wouldot have been elected without . either the primary nomination or -- democratic nomination or the general election. and therefore he has a tol. >> it's not like youo what i want -- 's not saying to the senate you do what i want or i willo over our hd. >> he is sayinto them and to arica, you know i'm going to use my conction wi the american people and whatever understding i have of technologand my own skills build -- >> you're sitting, let me say 's dealing with the two sides of pennsylvania avenue. i think the president's basiapproach say to-way

street. that's number one. and i ink people on the other side of pennsyania appreciate tha a presiden has aifferent role th a member of congress or senat. not on are they responble for keeping the flow of the t sides of pennsylvania avee moving. ey also have a job to speak tohe country. and so that the loll beeen e oval officeand main street is also an open two-way seet. and so you are in a tow of politicia. i'mure they all have taken notes that he is doing quite well with themerican people. and that they ar hoping he succeeds and so you know, you know, charlie, i le politics. i think it is a good tng. >> rose: so i. >> okay, y are in a town ofpoliticians. they hav taken note of the where the erican people are as i relates president obama. >> the pollshow it and his esidents show it. >> that is a goothing. the challenge ist we are going it g over your head. he has a jobo commicate tohe american people that is part of his job. they ve a job to counicate to their nstituents.

he h a job to do it to all 50 states and let them know what his decision is. ande's very clear he wants to continue to do that. would be essential tohe job of the presidency in today's time. >> rose: you have been genero with your time. and i thank you very mu. thank you. >>he watt certificate really good. >> rose: ank you. i thank you, i've enjoyed it rses this is an exciting time for everybody. whatever side they are on. and however they are uniteed by thesense of conce and care for the country. >> i do think havinspent a t of time in thhill in the last week, will say this regardless of how anybodvoted on a particar issue, there is a sense of common purpose the legiativeranch that this is a unique time. and i think pele can walk away sensing that their elted officials know that this is an extraordinary time time that requires extraordinarynswers.

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