rrz welcome to the broadcast. tonight we remember september 11th, 2001. first by t certificate pony that took place tay. then excerpt from preous conversations on this program. and then conversations about the future with new york police commissioneray kell and ahitecture criti paul goldberg. >> we reale that aer september 11th that we had to do more to protect t city from terrorist attack. we had an attac twice, succsfully. and we knew that we had to augment the supplement whathe federal government was ing torotect our city. because new york was then

d still is in t judgement of the inlligence community the number one target in america. >> i think we should have rethought l of the land. and i ink we also should have had housi. because that'shat people really have wanted in lower manhattan, not offices. it's what there's a need for. but there was a fear right thenhat people wouldnot want to live at ground zero. that it would be too raw, too painful. in ft, now with eight years having passed, we rely think of it, it'not just anyew blocks, of course, it's stillvery spial. but i don't think people would hesite to livehere had an apartment buiing been putp at the corner it. >> rose: also this eveni, as weove to the fils of the u.s. op here in new york w talk to donald de about nnisnd about presenting aletes. >>ou learn by listening, t by talking. that's the real secret. and i think the art of negotiation is really a study in human nature. if want to do a very rious negotiation i ner

want to do it on the one or certainly not by e-mail. you want to do it face-to-faceo you can get the feel othe other person. and as i say i that book, the o things that really matter most life, charlie, and you are a peonification of it, are the relatiohips built on trust. that's whatit's all about lz. >> rose: absolutely. i remembrance of 9/11, a ogram note our conversaon with nicholas countrs tov and sheryl udin will be seen next week. tonight remembering 9/11 and looking at the tennis finals this weekend. >>unding for charlie rose s been provided by the following captioning sponsored by rose communicaons

from our sdios in new york city, this is charlie rose >>ose: today marks the 8th anniversary of the sepmber 11th, 2001, attacks on america in new york. the pentagon i virgini and pennlvania. across the count americans pause to mk the day when nearly 3,000 people were killed. president obama, mayor bloomberg and forr secrety of state col powell spoke to e meaning ofhis day. ♪ oh say can you see ♪ by the dawn'sarly light ♪ ♪. >> 8eptembers have come angone. arly 3,000 days have passed almost one for each of those tan froms.

buno turning of the seasons caniminish the pain and the loss of that day. no passage of time. anno dark skies can ever dull the meaning of this moment. so on this solemn day, at thissacred hour, once more we pause. once more we pray. as a nation. and as a people. >> and just as our hearts return to ose that we st, we also remember allthose who sptaneously rushed forward to hp, howeve and whomever they could. thr compassion and selfless acts a etched i our city's history. >> but what terrorists can ver do, what they can

never do to uss to chang who we are and what we are as a nation tt is fearless a nationhat touches every nationecause every nation touches us. >> let us rew o rolve against those o perpetrated this barbaric act d who plot again us still. in defense of our nation, we will neveraiver in pursuit ofl qaeda and extrist alli, we will never falter. ♪ and the ho of the brave ♪ ♪ of thebrave ♪ ♪. rose: over the years at this table we he spoken to many about september 11th. we hav talked rescue workers, polital leaders annew yorkers who were eye tnesss to the attacks. all of them have spoken

eloquently aut the spirit of our city, our couny and the meani of that day. tonight showou moments from those conversations. >> what do you know abo your son's dea? >> he called me that morning at hom he called ery day. he called me five, six, seven times a day anhe on lived a mile away. rose: five or six times a day. >> a d. he called me every time. >>e called me all the time. can't tell you how i miss those calls. >> ros yeah. >> he call that morning anhe said turn on the tv. >> we turned it on. we saw the tower w hit. it w the north tower, the rst tower. i said john, wh is it. said a plane hit it. i said okay. with that you could hea the tones the background gog off, meaning there is an alarm coming in. he sai that's us, dad we're going to t trade center. i said okay, john, be careful. that was the la time i spoke to my son. he went there with his company, squad 288, hazmat

is also in quarters with them. that house had aotal of 19 gu respond. 19 men didn't come back that ght. they were al killed. >> it was tgh. i reallyhought myife was over. anthen when everything stopped, i, you kn, said jeff, are u okay. he's like ye. and asked me the same question. anhing hit you. >> no. i opened up myittle light and looked around. couldn see anything. we could -- he wasas close as bobby is here. app we uldn't see each other. it w complete darkness, dust all over. but i could see that there s a wall to the left, two walls had collapsed to t left of us andere leaning against an i beam. the landin that was above, the landing of the second floor, jeffrey had oned a door going tothe loafer levels. and the lanng actual landed on to of the door that he hadpened, kept it from falling on top of us. and ere is what we call a

stand pipe that lead toward the cent of the building. so when the lding came downt gotwisted. so we had a teepee more or less, the wall was leaning. this landing was here and w had enoughpace for the two of us to stan next to each otr. tohe right of jeffrey f we didn't me over to the lef, close to the wall, e floor had collapsednd all the bris andverything went wn and to the right side of the stairwell. and we thr stuff dn, couldn't here it. it wasottomless. and if we didn't move to the left, jeffrey would have ded up falling down the hole and probably takg me with him, you ow, trying to hold on. >> iwas seven stoes that hole. >> we don't know how -- >> it went down to the bottom of thelevator shaft. >>kay. >> iredible. >> and wn you think about this, -- >> it' a miracle that we're here i believeod and a couple of people that know that have passed on were watching ov us.

i mean wh yo saw wher we were, what we were in, and we couldn' get out, it took them about four and a lf hourto actually reach us and dig us out, or breh a couple of lls and we were lucky ough that they we able to get to us a lot eaerhan we thought. because when they found us they had not the tls they would have needed if we weren'lucky enough to be next to a evator shaftway that was constructed of double 5/8 sheet rock and metal studs. so they were ae to breach the wall above with a tool and send down a rope and we were able to, you know, climb upnd break the bottom part where we were. >>t has made me much more religiou. much deeper fah. much deeper understandin of theact that god has a plan

for us and that when we n't figure it out b we have to believe, it's made me much more convinced that the single most iortant thing youave to do is developstrong beliefshat are real, that a honest, thatean something to you. because the are the things you are gointo cling to. those e the things tha are going to get y through a crisis. anit has made me much mor convced that the whole concept of american rights and american govement and what we try tdo foreople is the future of the rld. and we have figure out how to convey it to people. >> our role, o mission and our obligation and our dut >> tt's right. because i see what happened at the world trade nter in washington over the skie of pennsylvania. as a conflict betweenhe prehistoric world and the modern world. the world where i was and

the worlwhere it's going. the anger and the hatred for a socie in whh women have equal rights th men, in which there is religious frdom. in which there is prosrity. and which ishe only way to bring ople out of povty. you need psperity to bring peop out of poverty. and the are the things that somehow hav to work for them we probably ve toind a wato accomplish tt. but have become much mo convince that tt is how we are going to get rough this. >> wel it changed a lot, i think. i think it chang a sense of invulnerable that o couny had. i mean it's prett amazing to think that more people di on the morning of ptember 11th in new york ci than died at lexington and concord, the first mitary engagement in the war of 1812. the first military engagement ofhe mexica xican-american war. the first military engament of the civil war,

fort sump ter, th baleship mayne, the sink the lose takenia,pearl harbor and the first military engagement in the korea war and the vietnam war combin. and i think, you kno, people he a sense now that our country is foregood for good or for ill pa of the world no lonr separated by two vas oceans. i think that's on the negati side. i think the positive side i think this rwakened in america a sense of patrioti and a recognitio of how precishe life is that we have here and our rits and our fedoms. and how itntails an obligation that sometimes requires sacrifice in order to pro thekt the d i know a lot of friends of mine, sort of '60 hiies who now when the st-spangled banner is played t eyesist up a little bit and e heart is firmly held to the che and there is a recognition that there is something special about ing an american that is worth fighting r. >> country matters. >> yeah, count matters. patriotism has been reawakened inhis cli. and i don't think it will be

a ssing moment. ani think a sense of responsibility arose ithis couny as well. and i think ironically engh it caused a lot of people say to themselv, is life all about chasing material p-- possessions and getting some more opons and having my vestment portfolio rise d so i thi a lot o people have been, you know, sort o searching for, you know, howcan they be of service. w can they lead a ricr life in a spiritual sse, and a sense o service to otrs than just simply in the pursuit of matial gain for self. >> i think wwenthrough this sges, according to the -- we went thrgh shock, first. then a kind of awe thatthis had happened anthen a kind of stunned anger, saying we mt do something. and then a sense of vulnability. the last emotiois the one that wl last. that will endure. the sense at we are now finallin this continent vulnerable. if we bomb the vietname

they couldn't bomb seale back. if we bombaddam hussein he couldn't bb staten island. we felt invulnerableable for a long time. now we are vulnerable. and i think at is a very useful thing becae particularly toeople who have lived inhis amazing golden penthesis between the end of the world war and september th. that was --that will be looked at later as this period no draft, no -- it is reallyhe '90s. >> it is extraordary. >> yeah. and i think for them it will a masesingly useful and make them moreuman to understand tha this costs volve. that y sometimes have to pay prices, a certain price. but we also kno i kw as a journalist if i look at a prize fighter, know nothing at all aut his quality until gets

knocd down. if hegets up, i know he is a fighter. ife -- and this city was so extraordinary, charlie. erybody who was here. we got knocked down on tuesday. we grouped around fo the mouthpiece on wednday. we were on one knee on thursdaynd on fridaye got up. and the city you coul sense it a over the city on fly everybody was back. the deagain rats were ba. guysere handing out club paradise tle dancing things in front of pen station. but th is real. this inot we all went to the same movie. there are still bodies down there. there are still pple cling at thatconcrete and steel trying to not only find anddentify the bodies bu even -- that ishat i thin we are all par of the press. giving it meanin nojust to list the facts >> right. >> we need the facts. we must have t fas.

but it not what the facts arbut what you thin as a consequence of tho facts. >> it s this thing at was just full of sarations betweepeople in terms of how the experience that i was fascinated, i mean the mber of times in o's life where one knowshis is why i live in this city. starting when you first move here andou come over the brid. but th a much, not in that kind of romantic way bu in some youknow, the pre in how brave people were. and how song people were. and how surprised was that my friendsn oerities wereot, you know, re having, you kwhe amnt of they're going to strike the hollywood studios xt. well no, they'r not. . ey're not. the ople i ow who bought

gas masks did not live here. >>ew york has always been an extraornary placement but in theast ten years, in sometime about 1990 somethg absolutely or '93, say, something genuinely unprecedented happened in new york. i havehe chance to see it not livinghere, in fact, being abroad most o those yes. and would you me back to new york and it felt as ough, as i wrote at the time, as though the was a bubblever the city. almost as if awe or superman's hometow there was this big transparent bubble that woulsettle over the city wi a gleaming highlight and no city had er seen so powerful,o gleaming, so prosperous, so unreally rich as new york d in thos years. and one aaysnew, you always knew it couldn't la that tt bubble was going to break. it simply wasn possible for it to persist. bui think all of us thought the bubble will break beuse the dotcoms willrash, because the real este market will crash, the stock maet will crash. d no one could even bin to imaginehat the bubble wouldn't burst as bubble do,

but the bubblwould be pierced. the bubb would be destroyed in thaway. and i think there was an instant recognition tuesday and afterrds that that had happened. that some funmental rift, some fundamental cnge had taken ple inur lives, that we were at that mont we knew that that had passed, that a whole period, not just a administrationnot just a politic period but a wholeeriod period conscisness had changed. it doesn't hpen often in life. >> joining me now, w york city police commissioner ray kele. the new york police department has thwarted several terror plots and al cut crime rates to historic ls. is the only person in city history to ser two separate terms as police commissier and i amery plsed on this day to welcome him ck to this progra lcome and thank you for coming. >> good be with you >> tell me what is day means and willmean sort of in terms of the new york police department. >> obviously it s a significant loss as far as personnel were concerned.

23 police offirs. members of the new york city policeartment lost their life, 3 port authory police offers and of course 343 firefights. what it al signals is a significant change, a turning point r the department i how we do siness. realized thatfter september 11thhat wehad to do more to protecthe city were a terrorist attack. we had an attac twice, succesully. and we knew that we had to augmen or supplement wh the feral government was doing to protect our city. because neyork w then and still is in the juement of the intelligence community the number one target in america. it's thecommunication capital, financial capital i ed, it is the world capital a lot of peoe's minds. so what we d w put in place a counterterrorism bureau. we reford our intelligence

division. we brought in world-class folks to help us do this from washington, fm academia. we honed and developed r own internal language skills. becae we have a very diverse department thahas become. more diverse since 2001. we put all of these skills and the itiatives together to lp us better protect the city. >> when there is an indent in mumbai an incident i london you'veot people on the ground there. >> that's right. >> within 24 hour we want to len quickly any lesson that can help us better protect new yor we can't wait for a report six mths later. we don't knowif it is a precurr to an attack in new york or one that is going be coming in a cole of weeks on thesame mol. so we wan to gathe information as qukly as possible. and we've deployed personnel in 11 foreign cies to do a

variety of things b primarily to askhe new york queion,hat's going on here that can affect new yo and peaps harm us. >> rose: tt's one reason why weave not had successfulttacks in terms of accomplishing the motives of those tha set them motion wanted to aomplish. what else? >> first think it is important to put it in context. because we've h eight plots against the city since septemr 11th of2001. anfor a variety ofeasons, good work on the part of the federal government. we had our own intelligee division here, stop attempt to bomthe herald square subway stati, the british, ocourse, operion overt whi saw three convictns in the uk. but there wereat least eight parts that we know of agnst the city. t the federal government has done a good job, i think, really every lel of

government. >> not only upping the game but the essential quality of communating with each other has racheted way up. >>bsolutely. informatiosharing acrs the board. and you know, the level of cooperation is excelle. there is no her wto phrase it. >> do most of these attacks come from the same ideology d the same source or that diversgroup of people for their own rsons looking at what has happened before wantinto achieve the se thing? >> it is the same ideology beuse it radical islam, that's t reality of it. >> ros in every case that you have thwarted a plot it had a radical islam connection. >> both eight pts that i mentioned to you, yes, tt is the nature, that is the genesis of the plot against the cy. >> rose: is the reas are you able to thwart th now because u have a, information. ishat the pmary difference. >> yes. >> re: because you -- >> yes, is informatn.

informatioas you said, information sharing but now there is mh more listening for thatnformation. >> rose: and younow what you listenin for. >> yes. you know what you are looking for. prior to 2001 we simply didn't certainly not at local level. we weren't doing any this at a local lel. we werettacked here in 1993. the worltrade center bombing. was the police commissioner then whent happened and it s seen a, sort of an arration. sort of six crazy guys got together a did this. it wasn'seen to be lked to a sortf internional move, obviously that was wrong. >> it actually we back to at leastthe -- asssination in 1990. but it was ju sort of brushed aside. that allchanged with septber1th. from that time on you realize that we were up ainst at least an internatnal -- >>ou have an opinion on whether the people o want

to do harm to the united states in that manner are growing or are they shrinking? >> i think it's difficult to say. wch individus wh become radicalized in different ways. even on the internet or they will have a sanction or somebody in a particular lotion that seems to motivate them. it's difcult to get mber on them. we d't know. we don't kno we -- our operational premise, you mht say, is that it certainly could grow. so we are watching in a lot ofifferent corners. >>et me go back to those you thwart. u thwarted them because you somew are able to get information wheer they messed uand sent a signal that you werable to pick up. or b because you created formants insidehat disclod it. >> is there a common nominator or is each one separate. >> youave to look at eac one so of sarately.

butclearly informants were significant some of these cases. you saw thmost recent one was th riverdale bbings. that waslearly a case of an informant coming forward working wi the fbi. eration overt, we see some of that inrmation coming outfrom the british that was a well conducted, billion run vestigation on the pt ofhe british. the case that we hadere in new york with the two individuals at wantedo pullff the hald square subway station we actuall haan undercover poce officer inlved, receive some information and then based on what that offic receed were able to introduca condential nv ant. so it is like no one model. but clearly information is the ke gettg information early. andeing able to act on it

>> rose: bause it had such a devasting effect on our city andn washington, and in nnsylvania and across e country, is th the response to this a how y have been able to change the police dartment and because of what 9/11 means in the heart and psyche of americans th the proudest complishment for you? >>h, i don't think we can declare it as an accomplishment, yoknow. we take evy day a --. >> re: a risk. >> as a risk and we are not going to declare viory. we have to be concerned about torrow. we blt -- >> you do know you thwarted attacks. that is an accomplishment. >> yes. t it is cerinly a team effort. and you know,t is e inlligence community it is the law enforcement community. ternationally working, working gether. >> and people like that don't stoprying. and it is not le beball, ni innings and it over. >> that's ght. >> it mean they may t nine or ten or1.

>>recisely. >> whado you worry about the most. a question that i know you have hea a thousand times. >> a nuclear radioologic event, a dirty bomb, or actual nuclear debt tion, of course. u know, it's something that we ve to thk about. now we've put certain thin in place that ll help us protect this cit and thanks to the departme of homeland security we have an initiative going forward called securing cities wre wehave the rings of state of thert radiion detectors an the ty. we're positioning them. we hav mile detectors. we're working with 22 agencies in the area connecticut and new jersey and upstate nework to help us monor this program but that the, obviously the biggest concern. of course we're concerd about, you know,

vehicle-borne improvised explosives >> do you have a the resources you ed. >> we always like more. more resources. >> more meaning what. it's not accs to technology. it's not access. it's just the numr of? >> the mber of,ore personnel, as ll. we've down fro where we were in 21. we're down because of the budget crisis. the environment we fd oursels in inhe city. we would likeo see the federal government if possible help out in that regard. beuse were protecting america's sets in this city. this is veryuch aational ci where wehave wall to walleye connick targets her that we would like to see the federal gernment help more. >> rose: what kind of mas do you give homeland security? >> good, good. aferted and they are getting beer. we have worked with theew secretary. >> janet napolano. >>he visited ground zero this mning.

so we work closely wh them we obviously looko them for resources. we like to ge money from homeland surity. and you know, we are communicatin 're talking, as i s, the secung the city's initiative is fund by homeland security. what's the alicationf smart power or soft power in terms of the battlegainst rrorism coming to our shores again? >> we do so many things in that area. i selfvisit mosquesn a relar basis. and answer questions. >> rose: y say we or yr friends. >> we answer questions this they have some concern rose: about discmination. >> theare concerned about discrination. they areoncerned about monitoring. i try to aay some of their concerns. we jt had a cricket league for young mostly muslim young men. cricket is unheard of in this country but we had a cricket league. it was a major success and it got rf reviews in bh pakist and india.

we had a socce league for --. >> rose:e meaning you created it. >>es, we created it here. the police departmendid. and we got, yo know, as i say, a lot of kudos for it, for doing it. we have made our departmen much more divse. we have muslim officers assoation. we just had a few weeks ago a preramadan conference where 5 people came to o ditorium and we spoke abt what we are going to do provide additional security, durg ramadan. we are actively recrting in t musli community. so i meet with muslim leaders l the time. we don always agree. no queion about it. we p out repor on radicalization that was contversy, no question about it. it was the first attempt by agency, new york city police department, t try t get ourarms around the

process of radicalization. d we taujed aut -- we lookedt 11 cases specifically. and we made some statements there that not everybody agreed wh. but we met. we talked about . we made some adjustmen in threport. so there is an awful lot of dialogue, awful l of communication going on. anour language skills which we talked about, we haveover 700 speakers of what we call lguages, obously arac, hindi, venghali. we have tho speakers our ranks, these are police officers. so weare ableto counicate in the diverse communities of this city and i believe it builds incrsing level of tru. >> rose: and information. >> and information >> rose: thank y for coming. >> thank you, thanks f having me. >> rose: cmissioner ray kelly. back in moment. stay with us.

>> rose: we coinue now with paul go ber, the archecture critic for the new yorkanager over the yearhe has chronicled the procesof rebuiing ground ze. in his 2005 book up from xer owe he wrote theollowing ere is anyone no instruction maal to tell us wha to do when e taest buildings are suddenly gone and the a id in its heart. i'm plsed toave him back at this table and take note of a new boohe has written called, approprtely, why architecture matte. welcome. >> thank you,harlie. >>ose: what whei read me of the things that people have said a beuse it is halled grou, peoplere yearning for memorial. >>es. >> rose: whys there not memoal. >> well the is one coming. it's justaking a very, very long time. everything abo this process has gone eitr wron or astrain some way

or been delayed. it's been something of a nightmare, actual. nobody dreamed it would take as long as it has. >> rose: what e we talking about and why did itappen? >> well, ihink we made a seriesf wrong decisions in thvery beginning. governor pati had the ilsion, i think, on the rning of september 12t that t quickest wayo build would be to leave all the playe in place. larry silverstein, the private developer whleased the twin ters, the port thority. >> rose: before it wen down. >> he only leased th from the port authorityarlier in '01that's right. and th portauthority, the state governnt, althe plays. in fact, it was the wrong thinto do. we would have done better probably if we simply started fr scratch becau they were all squabbling among themselves. they did not he a good relationship. you had multiple player -- yers of government. the state of new york. the state of new jersey which is involved in the port authority. the city of ne york. all their various departmes and divisions and so forth.

and then the other part of that mistakeas that they le the program of the original wld trade cenr in pce. in other words, the idea was not todo somethin different th that land. the idea was till hav 10 million square feet of offices and a lot of stores and althat stuff just to redistribute it so you wouldn't he 21 story towers and then tuck in some kind of memoria t the memorial was never the driving force, you might say. i think it suld have been. i think it ally should have been. i think we should have rethought all the land ani think we also should have had housing. cause that's what people really have waed in lower manhattan. not ofces. it's wt there is aeed fo but ere was a fear righ then thapeople would n want tlive at grod zero that it would be t raw, too painful. in fact now with eight years having passed, we ally think of it, it not just any few blocks, of cose, it's still very special.

but i don't think people would hesitate to live there had an artment buildin been put up at the corner of it. >> rose: larry silvetein still has the lse. >> yeah. >> ros when will that commercial part of it take place? >> well the first part of it, the building. thtall building that governor paki. >> rose: freedom ter. >> wanted toall freedom tower, thankfully that name i i found always a little you thicious is gone. they are just calng i one world trade center now. that building is not very goodsadly, becau it was degned as much by the security consultants and t polices by therchitects. that's going up. nobody really wantso be in it. it's been an awkwar problem. and it's supposedo be folled by a series of other towers that are probably going tbe better. designed by a different architect, very good architect normage foster, d richard rogers, three of the grtest arctects in the world, in fact, ve been involved i tse. but those are all on

definite hold now because of the ste of the economy and larry silverstein and the po authority are fighti over who is going to pay for them and who is going put up the money and althat stuff. >> rose: and thedownsized the transportati center. >> t transportation center by santiago whi was probably the only thing a ground zerohatverybody wa enthusiastic about, the degn for it, that's been downsized because it turned out to cost or $2billion which is not so great. and en frank gary s doing a performing arts nter. that isnowhere now because there is no mon for that. there is another office building by colin parson fox at isn hold because th site is the old deutsche bank building and it' taken forever to take that down as well. so nothing is kind of gone smoothly and right. >> rose: why would this -- why would thi is, the commcial buildings have such an impact on the memorial? why couldn't the memorial have gotten a consensus?

>> well, the memorial did have a pretty good consensus they waid awhile before they got started on the memorial. and then in '03, there was a competition held. it was actually in a way e cleanest, most honorable part of a whole awful necessyed up ground zo planning process. >> wch gotnly state conflicts between stat port authority but the architects. >> absolely it was a political nighare. but the memorial competition, they reallyid honorab and well, it was a truly open competion. 00 entrys om all or the world some, by great architects, many by unknowns and it was a truly imptial jury that picked a relatively unkno winner, a young archite named michael arod o did a very beaiful design whi caed fo t footprint of the two twinowers, those two acre sized squares to be

turned into vds. and in effect, sor of sunkin plazas. and the memorial to be underneath them. but the vo of that squa would mind us of t absence of the towers it was a very simple and powerful idea. unfounately, it also didn't really jive ver well with the mter plan by daniel, so that the, being honorable a saying we're going to just simp pick the best memoriano matter what, they also dercut their own master plan so that has made everytng complicated trying to get these things to sehow aln a little bit better. it turned out of course to be very expensive. the her thing that has made it very diffult is that there is a huge, huge amount of work that hado be done underneh this site. and that had to be in effect pretty much finished before anything cld move forward. memorial,office building, anything. >>nd there was some question about remai that may still bethere and that kind of thing. >> that asell. >> understanday sensitive. yes, of course, of course

>> so give me e timetab now. >> wel i tnk they are nohoping that the memial an themuseum connectedo it and the museum by the way is wt, there was once going to b a more elaborate visual arts mplex there as well. that has now kin of morphed in just the 9/11 museum designed b a very good swedis-- rather norwegian and american firm. it's a kin of ieresting geometric glass structure that will be there. that they were hoping to have ready for the tenth anniversary ofhe terrorist attacks ich woul be september 2011. >> two years. >> two more years. >> right, two years from day. >> whose's the mt imrtant political figure in pushing this forward? >> well, right now is sort of hard to know if there even is one. >> new york goverr has weakened >> the governor s weakened. i would say during the pas

tacki administration th governor of w york was solutely the most powerful person. many of the problems can lay at hisfeet i'm sorry to sa but nonetless he washe one with the mt cards. now power is ev more diffused making even more give, really. the port authority has a fair am of power. lay silverstein stl lds a lot of the cards in his hand the governors of both new york and new jersey. but as you said there is not a huge amount -- >> the -- theigure whos probably the strongest just a general way is mayor bloomberg. but structurally theayor actually does not have very much authority over this. even thgh that is the office that is hel by the guy who actually sort of has it together best of anydy, yomight say. >> do we know what s sires are. >> yes we do, actually. in fact, the mayoasbeen, i ink, consiently right

on this subjecfrom the beginning. the mayor really di no wa to see the site rebuil with just ofce buildings anmemorial. he had hoped thathere woulbe housing. in fa when i did a piece in "the new yorker" a coue years ago saying why don't we just start all over again and change the program, th only time the mayohas ever acally picked up the pho and called me and said toe, that was gre, why didn't you write that two years ago. >> rose: yeah, rig, why didn'tou write that two yearago. >> i should ve, you are absolutely right. i thght i said it but i guess i didn't say it strong enough. >> ros thank you for come on this day. >> thank you wrzhe book soon to be in book stores why architectu matters. he is a man wh loves and is passionatebout architectu. and passiona about this city. >>ack in a moment. we'll talk about tenni stay withs. >> donald dell is here.

he is a tennis entrepreur, a pione in the business of sports managent, a lawr, and a fmer tennis player for five decades he has represted some of srts's most recognizabl figures including arth josh, jimmy nners and michael rdan, at the beginning oopen air tennis he was instrumental in et krooing th modern professional game. he writes about thatnd othe experiences in ver make the first offer, september whenou should. i'm pleased to have donald dell, a friend of long-standing at this tae for the firsttime. welcome. >>hank you, charlie. grt to be here. rose: before i go to this let's talk a bit of ten i -- teis which has en your life in part along with a loof other causes. the u.s. open, we a taping this onfriday. and tomorrow is men's semi-finals, we hope what does it look li? >> well, if they don play the nadal match tonight that was unfinished last night, they can't finish the tournament until mony. because they arenly in the quarterfinals of the men in that one particur match.

>> rose: one quarterfina to dermine the last semi-fal. >> exactly. >> ros so what is the weather report. what is happening, does it look like it is gog to go. >> they're not sure. >> rose: bthe time we broadcast we will ow. >> it a great argumentow for roof over tt stadium which we have been talng about for about five years. >> rose: wimbledon has a roof. >> they had ts year, first time. >> rose:ow do you see it, let's assume for the sha that it is nadal. you've got nadal in one, federer in the oer. >> right. >> rose: telme how you see these games and the matchups. >> welellpotral is an awfullgood player playing dal. >> rose: hlost the first set. >> yeah. >> ros no, he is already in the semi. >> in the quarters nadal ha won the first set a it got rained o. >> and then the other de you got ferer. he's playing josephitch. u have to favor feder. but i tell you the rain a the ather situation, thin disfavours federer. and you migh say why. well, because he's got a

pattern. and he'sell respected, thoughof to be t best player. but ddenly everything gets screwed up i the scheduling. u might not start at 11:00. you mighttart at 6:30. >> rose: meaninge is taken f his rhythm. >> yh, exactly. i'not saying that will use him to lose. >> rose: why doesn't it affect others the sa way. >> just becaushe is the best player on form if everything is normal, federer is theest player. but the minute you art changing the wholeine-up, the weather,oday it very wiy, tremendous wi out there. it stops rning and it is cloudy and cold but windy t ju changes a little bit the elemen. and i think that hur the strong favorite, melf. >> rose: what you think of h opponent. >> well. >>ose: in the semis. >> in the semihe is a awfully good plar. ihink dlpotro will meet nadabecause i think nadal has be hurt. he pled a muscleor something thother night, retched it. delpotra played really well i ink he is awfully stro. >> rose: couldou argue the delay could helping nadal

because of the stoch problem. >> sure, a little more tim will help hi no question about that that will help nadal. >> rose: but he is notet up to the vel of play that he was at wimedon when he won wimbledon. >> the differencis he hadn played sinceay when he got hurt the freh. pull a muscle afterrds. and it is match toughness. ke erything, this is mano ammano. if y are notatched tough wheas the other three guys arplaying all summer. federer di take a long rest after mbledon, three or four weeks. en he comes band and wins cincinnati so you kn he is confident. and i think roger has proven he is the most consistt player, since he is the grtest player ever. thk about this, 17 out of 18 semi-fils or finals in 17 outf 18 grand slams. i meanobody has done that the history of the sport >>ose: if he is not the greatest player in e world, here is a guy who is. this guy. >> rney george labor. >> the reason, charlie, he is so good is s have to really understand the

background of tenni in 196 he wonhe grand slam. and then he turnepro with ja cramer, played on the cramer tour. couldn play any grand slams. >> rose: tell me about nick boliterri. >> i le nick. nick has a real, he has a spirit about that academy. there is an enthusim in the air that he personally has created year in, yr out. when you go there, are u kindf fired up even when are you siing there watching these you players play. i get excited because the is an atmospheref compition, of improvent, of seriousness that hs created ov the years. and you got to give it him. >> he is 80 something. >> i think he elebrating s 80th birthday soon. >> he looks abt 60. >> and his enthusiasm for those -- and they beat hi everybody had go to florida. >> oh, way. >> for a period the. agassi has got a new memoir, you have heard abo this. >> well, inow, i have been to his school out there in

lavegas. what he has done with at cause for helpg children in the city of las vegas is, i mean you lerally almost turn to trs when you see these kids all walking in, they all have unifms. you walk up a ask them something. they s yes,ir, no, sir. and then they recit >> rose: any link between that and the fac that andre in his eyes i think and in many pple's eyes, he never had a childhood bause he was turn mood tens machinearly on. >> he was player at 1 down at theacademy playing. i think he jus did so well. >> rose: wasn't happ because he kept ming back home. >> de so well, soong. i ink he really wanted help others around him. he had -- he has still day great desire to lp others tennis. >> rose: speak of your friend and people you have known, wch this take. >> how did arthuashe win? >> very sily. two nights before, ter the semi-final, group us sadown at the pyboy club london, figure out

what my best chances wld be of beang jimmy conner two days later. >> rose: who were the people there at the tab. >> marty reeseon,harlie, donald dl, maybe a cple ofthers. >> rose: a couple of friends and aisors. >> yes. and what came up with was a game plan that we were re would give coers difficul on grass. buthen the next question isou could do it. >> ros here is the plan, you can executet. >> rht, can you execute it. anit was called as you recall, a rad call change of strate if being on a grass cot. >> rose: i game you had t played befe. >> had never tried it on a grass cour rose: what was the strategy? >> well, to take the sed off the ball, ve him a lot of jk as we call it. cause he, conners is a very good unterpunch. the harder u hit it, the better he likes it. >> rose: right. >> keep the ball dow the middleo that he can'tpen the court with wide angle. and get my first serve in. and pullim to the t, lob

over h two-handed backhand. an it worked. >> rose: the is a man you love. >> charlie, we lost aot whene lost thur. he was special. i rember that conversatio th night at the ayboy cl. because e next morning i used to always from me to time, i uld travel with arthur. i wasn't married a lot of the time when he first started in 68. and i wrote him note. and i never dreamed. i put on a little envelope and i wrote four pois about how to play coners that we d discussed t night before at the playboy club. anlow and behold arthur goes out o the mch and the secondhangeover, he is sitting there, you know, i thght he was mediting. anhe is reading this stupid little envelope with four lite points on it. >> rose: one of them washit softly to his foreha. the other was lob over the ckhand side. hit ur first sve into the backhand. i mean basichings, you know. but never had played quite that way ande beat him, it was 16-1 odds again when he played him because he hadn't beaten him. >> ros i saw that game, was europe and saw that.

i thght this is wonderful. becae you did not believe he could do it. d he just wa beyond anybody you kn in sports. was su a great man. >> hdid an awful lot for this countrynd would have done an aul lot more if he d lived. i think heould have run for the united states senate the congress, certainly in nework. rose: did he go to west point. >> he was a second lieutenant. he went to ucla with charlie. th were roommates. heraduated from ucla. went in e army a was effectivelyssigned to west point. went twest point fortwo years. >> here is another picture, dold dell and arthur ashe, i don't know where this is. >> this his home in florida. this book isalled never make the first offer, except when you should. sdom from a master deal mar. tell us someisdom. >>ell, it has just been a fun experience writingt. and talking about the different things you try to learn. first of all, t asonthe title, never me the first offer, you are seeking informion.

you are trng to learn by not saying whayou want. you wanto listen to wha the other guy, as i say in there. >> bause they say something in which theare thinking about giving u a lot morehan you are even going to ask for, the negotiation is or. >> may they are not. but at least you learn. you learn by listening,not byalking. that is the rea secret. and i thin the art negotiation is reay a studyn humanature. if i want to a ry seris negotiation, i never wa to do it on the phone. or certainly not by e-mail. u want to do it face-to-face so you can get the feel of the other person. anas i say in that book, the two thin that really matter most life, charlie, in your psonification of it, areelationships built on trust. at's what it isllabout. >> rose: absolutely. we said that earlier today that is exactly what is about. >> and remember, the sportsceer industry like potics is a very, very small indury. are you gng to g backnd negoation with a lot of those me people, time and time again. so the precedent on how you set yourself a whether you keep yourword and whetr

you make the deal and honor , all that gets arod. word of moutis everything in the sports worldses tell me about yo assessment o sports agency today. and this a whole show but give me e short version. >> wel i tnk sadly there are some gat onesnd some very bad ones. i mean it's 50/5 they are like gd doctors and goodawyers. and there are baones. and unfortunately, many the horror stori you read, 50% of tmre probably true. one the things that's really to meeen scouraging, and it hasn't happed yet in golf and tennis because they are individual sports. but in the team spor of football a basketll, quite honestly, everybody along the way is trng to get paid. i mean the entourages, the au coaches, the high school coach, iean the reet guys. i me they are in it for money. they are not in it because ey are trying to help hnny. >> right. and so the agents are at the end of that food chain. and we get blame for a lot things that actually we may not be sflofd at l.

but it's vy hard today i both football and bastball. you really have to be very caful with your honor and your intrity. because you are going to lose it very eily if you play the game by theirules ishat i'm trying to say. >> rose: buthat are their rules? their rules are you say to an aauoach says yeah, i will sendhim to university and when he turns pro i expect to paid something. >> rose: what is it about dean smith and his ability and roy williams n but dean especially to maintain this sort of extraordiry relationsh between the program and the player. >> dean smith spends a certaiamount of his time en he was the head coach every day talking to former players, whether it's in l.a. or whether its jordan. or all- i mean he had a whole 20 playe playin tommy lagde way back, you know. and ithink roy williamsi know has continued the thing. the whole trend is sy ose to your players after they graduate. >> finally the u.s. op and

the women's final. at do you see there? >> well, i think frutfull, sere is the best player like roger. ani think what the willi sisters have done for tennis is quite phenomel. one of tm has wonseven out of theast eight grand slam titles. seven ouof eight, two sisters growing up togethe i don't think in arican tennishey reallyave gotern their d. i meanhey are a phenomenon and a force tt is unheard of. >> rose: so telle what it is about the trainin they had that madethem as good as they are. >> first of all riard, theifather wasotally the boss when they were little. i went down when they wer 13 and 15 t see them practice. he would have themut on the court, each one w a hitting partner. and he wou walk around and tell them different thgs that he nted them to . like i want you hit 20 minutes of forehands. or i want youo practice your serve. d de something --. rose: this is not a guy who knew a loabout tennis. >> no, h learned it. read it out ofbooks and watched film. he educated himself.

>> rose: theook is called ver make the first offer expt when you shld, wisdom froa massive deal maker. donald dl, founder of proserv. thank you. >> charlie, ank you. >> rose: pleasure to hav you here. >> thank you for joing us. see you nextime. captioning sponsored by rose communicaons captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.or