from los angeles. i'tavis smiley. tonigha remarkae story o redempon. r. dwayne betts wajust 16 when heas sentencedo nine years inrison after committing carjacking and robbery. heas released after priso and is sharingis story in the critically acclaimed book lled "a question of freedom." we're glad you couldoin us. a nversation with r. ayne bes coming up right now. >> there a so many things that wal-mart ilooking forward to doing, like helping people le better but mosy we're looking forward to buildinstronger communies and relationips because with your helpthe best is yet tcome.

>> nationwide insurance prdly supports tav smiley. tavis and nationwidensurance woing to improve financial literacy and the economi empowerment at comes with it ♪ nationwidis on your side ♪ >> andy contributions to your pbs station from viewersike you. thk you. [captioning ma possible by kcetublic television] tavis: at age 16,wayne betts ma a bad decision that wod forer change his life. despite being an honor stude, he and a friend were arrested following a carjacking and robbery forhich he was sentenced to nine yes in prison.

while incarcerated cement most of his time - spent most of h time reading, writg. it is an honor to have you o this progr, dwaynbetts. >>oingreat. tavis: let me go right at it. tell me what happened that fateful day. >> i w with a friend. we drove out tohe mall in virginia ande were walking aroundhe the mall andt got late andhe nexthing i know me and h were walking around in the parking lotnd i had a gun. i didn't have a gun intentionay planted on robbing someone but i had gun because the opportunityell in my lap and told somebody i wou hold it and i found mysf in the mall walking around inhe parking t. next thing i know me and my friend cjacked this guyhat was sleepi in his car. i te people we basically dro

ouelves to prison. we were arrted the nexay and pled guilty immediately and i was sennced to nine years in prison and after 8 1/2 years i wasinally relea. tavis: let's startith the gun. you are an honor sdent. you have a mher who loves you and has ten good care o you. as a honor student, y do you have a g in the first plate? >> it was e only time i had ever had a gun. i thk part of it was just tha it was ailable where lived and part of iwas that i knew people w carried around guns on regular basis and thought they needed a gun. maybe part of th need stuck in myind and it elapsed into something that was difrent with whoy mother knew me to be and who my family knew mto be and i thought for whatev reason i should ve a gun. i was real fortune that it

only lasted one night but was able to recoize my mistake and rencile myself to become who i was before that crime, ihink, it has been a blessing. tavis: i want be liberal in my thoughtrocess for a mome. by liberal, mean as expansi as i can with my mind. u lived in a city where crim ran rampant. carrying a gun is a bae of honor ev for an honor stent. let see if i can process how and why u had a gun on your person. i still got tmake a quant leap nowo how you go to rjacking someone. >> me, too. i tell people more than having to make quantum leap, i had to makthe sort of leapou couldn't imagine. i knew people who had carjked before andho had died during attempted carjacking

i had to ignoreverything i knew about the insanity of the crime for the ment. i don't say that to stify it or to exain it but i say that so show that it was trula moment of pulse when i was absolutely outside of m character andny explanation i give nowan't be anything but an excuse because it really was the unexplainable tavis: to yo ears, h do you he the statement that is not e kid that i know. that is t person that i know. i ask that becau every day on the news we seeome crazy sry that breaks anyou talk to the neighbors and the news media talking eporters and neighbors d family and friends and everybody sayg that is not same pson i know and we, the viewersre tryg to juxtapose what the persons whoee knew these iividuals are sayin with wt this individual did. wh you hear that isot person

i know. how do you hear tha >> i think i hear- i rognize that young peoe get themselves in situations tha they often can't pull themsels out of, having no idea how to get there and thehing that is most sad of alls that adults around th have no idea how they got there and i ink there are telltale sig that the child is not able to navevate what they live around. -- navigat what they live around when they say th is not the child you know,ow can you event that from happening to his cousin orittle bther, if we continueo do the things that we have done we' going to continue to get the same results. i he it with a sense o sadness. the crime wasommitted and the punish identity i goingo be metet outside. the whole things we nee tbe more involved a allowingoung

people to see that t world is more tn the balance around th. i knew the balce around me. it w the point of that life that that balance was mor real. now th balances s far removed fromy world. i know it exist i work in a community that is really balanced but that is removed from my world my dreams and my ambitions are ally in that balance even though i'm still steeped in the balanc tavis: want to come back to yourork these days. helping yogeople t avoid it and steer car of it. let's keep moving her i'm trying to process you having the gun. you explaid the moment of insaty with the carjacking. tell me more abouthe carjacking and the victim. >> t victim was aeep in his car. it was probably a middle aged whit guy. really somebody i never knew and never had se befor i don't know whamade me choose to pick him as a victim except

that he was sleeping in his car. vis: did the car attractou? >> no, it was dk. it was night and the wasn't th many cars in the parki lot. the thing that i remember about e victim and i say this in the book, aftethe carjacking and after weled guilty, when t judge talked and the prosecutor talked and the victim was in the audice. the truth is oncehe victim spks after i pled guilty, there is nothing else can say. it is hard to reconcile the fact that i mad body is a victim. think that's why even now, when i think of the victim,ow do i approacthe fact that i made by is a victim. some by a victim. there is really thing that i could do for him to make that right. tavis: have you had occasn

over the yea to comnicate with the victim? did heant to be communicated with or avoid you? >> it is not that he avoided me. when i was first arrested i had a lot oanger. i thought it was someone else's fault that i was locked . i had to let go of thi relationsh with the victim. aftetwo years went by, i couldn't en remember his name and that probably was more rtful than the fact that i de him a victim. now is a nameless pace in the back o my hd that -- face in e back of my head that started this whole prison. if he reacd out to me, of course, i would lk to him and apologiz to him but i don't think i necessaly have a right search himut because again, i did something that is unexplainable and egrious. i don't think i necessary have right to say loo i graduated from college. becae i work in the commuty

you could forgive . i don't think thats necessary the case. i would like the comnity to forgivme and i would like to make amendto the people in the community whom i hav't caused that much pain. he wasn't physicay hurt at all. th is one of the reasons why in a sense i can still sleep at night. i n say yes, we tookis car but i know we dn't physically hurt him. emotionally, psychologically, yes, but we didn' physically hurt him. it is easier for knowleep at night knowi i didn't ht him. tavis: you concede it probably changed his life as we. >> very likely. i know victims. in some ways i havbeen a victim to own insanity and more important i know family members whhave been crushed by balance. tavis: tl me about how -- this is a very simple question that covers a very long period, nine years to b exact. tell me out yourears in

pris, how you survived tse nine years behd barss a kid? >> really t.ust theact tha i committed a cme and i was at the ttom of the to m pole. i decided that i wanted to be a poet and a teacher and i decid th i wand to be hanonor to my mothernd i just read lot of books and spent every minute of every day thinking about how ykt i could make my life different when i was released. i worked harand i was forbling nat to meet a lotf -- rtunate to meet a lotf others to guide me int manhood. took vy long of m opportunity i d and created opportunities where none existed. tavis: how does a kid survi being thrown in with adults.

that another show for another ti butbut you were tried as an adult angot thrown in with these adults. hodid you survive that? >> i think theruth is i survived it because i was a reader befe, and i think reading anreally understanding whatiterature did made me mare beyond my years, but also i had skills when i me into the syst. since i wanted to be a write i had skills from reading lot of bos and understanding what was going in books. i wajust fortunate and i was fortunate to avoid a l of mistakes that bu other people. it was tough. i saw a lot of juvenes who didn't make it. some didn't ma it because they were naive and some didn'take it because thewere not strong ough. honestly some didn't me it cause they were put in the ong cell at the wrong time. when y say how did i make it, i think the was a whole lot of maybe insignificant detas stacd up that created an portunity for me to excel. not only for me to survivethe truth is i had an opportity to

excel in prison wherothers didn't even have the opptunity to survive you say how did i do it 16? i can point nothing else but luck and honestlthe grace of god. i haveroved myself unable to manage my own life by committing a crime. it was really men thatere around me d the grace of god that helped me get through it. vis: you sit today a college graduate, husband, fathe you sm to be ratr well adjusted yet we are told that r prison system does a horrible job of rehabilitating me and women. >> the prison stem doesn't do a job of rehabilitating. definite that. opportunity with virnia department of corrections that created the man before you.

i can point to dr. cornell west. i can point the every book that oprah ever recommended and the poets robert hayde i can chant a list of names. i can chant a listf nes and pele's whose work molded m into theerson i am today. that literature helped me to define myself while i was at the place to help define me solely byhose 30 minutes. i don'think it was the system in any way whatsoever. was really because i believed that literature could do something for myife. fome that belief helped me believe that i could be more and help me to become mo. tas: were you in the same place the tire time orid you mo around? >> i was a tour of the prison system tas: how many prins?

>> five over nine years. from a medium security prison the maximum security pson. it was 23 hours lock down. it was supposed to be for t st violent, vicious offenrs. found myself there at age 17, 18 tavis: tds one thing to be in prison and another thing tbe in solitary confinement as a kid. how do y survive that? those sa books? >> this ishe thing. i had worry about my own survival and make my mom not worry about me being safe. tavis: tell me about your mom. >>he was lovingnd got up at 4: a.m. ery morning to go to work. she wa theirst voice that i heard anthe last voice before i wento bed. nobo expected this. i was a good sdenthe whole time. the cre crued my mom completely and after the crime she put herself in my survival

and stad her life on how i would ok. she wrote me letters. at the time i was locd up she codn't drive so she got other family members to drive her to see me. she sa are you in a cell by yourself? i id yeah. she was like ok, cool. tavis: i c understand that, thou. from a safety perspective she knew haby was going to be all right. >>or me, i was7 when i was first p in solitary confinement. i dealt with it bause i had a opportunity to rea and n worry about the dra that was around me. tavis: tyour mothe i think now any number of black men who i have come to neend to interview over t years who ve expressed toe in their own w, the crushing defea they felt internally resulting

from having let their mama down. i think ofichael vick now. i'm glado say he is back and getting chance to do his thing again. i'll take your mail. bring it on. i'm glad michael vick is getti s chance again. that said, recall when he first h a pss conference. when he got arrested,he first thing he said w i want to ologize to my mother. almost the first thing he sd. he knew that his mother was crushed by his behavr and i thought of how his mother had to endure this. tell about your feelin of guilt or shame or your wor about what you did t your mama. >> this the thi. my mom has always been my number one supporter. no matter what has gone on in my life frofirst gra to second grade to trd gde. my mom is thene who expected me to eel. before i got locke up i didn't unrstand what that meant until i had a child. but to come home and to think

ck on it, i know that i crhed my mom, right? but more than that, i sortf understandthat i made my mom ha to get up ever day and think about how sh went wrong and the uth is she didn't go wron i'm the one that jumped out of the window but a mother c't cape the sense of responbility that she has far child. it is unrtunateoo. becauseociety says how are we going to talk abt the single black mothers? but the truth is that our children makdecisions and the are never ju raised by their parents and i ink the only rson who really recognizes how hard it isn a woman i think is the child because i saw how the whole world wanted to blame my mother and wantedo find what she did that was wrong whe it was me that picked up the gun. tavis:t wn't just your mother but there wer blaming your father in absent th.

>> they say e reason he did it is bause he didn't have a father. they would blamen absent father is a slick way of saying beuse the mother isn't enough. i push back on that because i knew ias guilty. i basically knew i w going to ison but i cld not snd in the courtro, at the last moment, the only time i felt i had an oppornity to speako the jue and i cldn't not say thetruth the truth is i didn't commithe truth because i didn't hav father. i commit it because i'm wrong. tavis: a bunch of witnesses thght they were helping you by sang you didn't have a father. you stood before the jge and said that ain't gotothing to do with it. >> i had to rognize my crime was mine. was not my fatrs or my moths. my mother had bronchitis at the time. i know that i crushed my mom and

left her so brokenheaed that she uldn't speak on m behalf. everybody was sayi i didn't have a father. they meant well t the truth was it wasn' because iidn't have a fher and it was never ever bause my mher wasn't good enoh. tavis: nine years behind bars. you evenally get out. i'fast forwarding here. you get out. you end up with a job, really your fst job, so to speak. your first job is in a bookstore. te me about tt. >> so brother yauwned ts book stoor. i had intention of ing to this gospel concert. it iok but i step ou of the concert beuse it was loud in there and i had just been working hours makingaint and i'm sitting outside talking to brotherau who was the owner of tookstore.

we were lking about literature and he asked me what collegeo i go to? i don go to college. where did you graduate? i dn't graduat i felt like tling people don't ask me about myast. i told him i just got out of prison. he says are you a writer? i'm inking to myself, that is not the follow-up question i expected just out o pson. i tell him y. one thing leads to the next. i sent him some of my work and the manar of one of the stores ys do you want to app for thassistant manager j, not only do get this opportunity but i ha someone asking me do i want to work knowing that i have three fonies so i get the job there and eventually the manager wants to me on and do something else andot promot as manager and i started a book club there called young boys read.

i me m we in the bkstore. it led to me being on the front page of the "washington post"." i began to understand how important bos are in the lives of others. i knew how important it was in mywn life but i didn't recognize how imrtant a book iso someone else, some random person comes in d says this is a great book. read this. they come back tme and say you were right. what else? i'm really foreverrateful to this m because aga, a lot of doors have been closedn my faceut he opened up the first or and that h paved the way for everything else. tavis: you gethe job in the bookstore and make theost and go t college and gradue with honors and give t comncement when you graduate. >> thawas -- i sred the stage with the director of the c.a. tavis: how funny is that?

>> the irony of all ironies i'm sitting here at maryld univsity and get t opportuny to address 16,000 people on the impoance of education. it was nearly 12 years to th date of me beingentenced by the judge it was nearly 12 yea to the date of me addressing the judg anit was a tremendous honor because the judge they told m thought sending m to prison woulhelp me. i waable to tell tm that. even no -- though no one exped me to make it to that points. -- that that point. iold on to tt moment. if you buy the c.d.nd listen to it, it sa introducing the class of 2009 led by reginald ayne betts. tavis: you're i grad school. that lady you met in the

bookstoryou married and you have a baby. li is good. >> life is good. i'm fortate enough with the campaign for youth justice tgo acro the country a speak t these young kids who made trouble theirives to talk about the importance edation. this is a movement th youeed to join to educate yoursf about what hapns to our kids when we don' pay attention about h we can change their relatiship with the jtice system. really, i never would have thought that iould have the opportities to do so much with myife. it is a bleing. tavi it is a bssing. i have just basically scratched the sface of your story. believe every race of people oughto be judgedy the best that ty have produce not the worst. his new bk is called "a question of freedo"

by. dwayne betts. congratulations. glad to have you on the program. >>t is an absolute pleasure. tavis: that is our show tonht. catch me on e wkends on p.r.i. you can access us pbs.org. goodight. thanks for watching and as ways, keep the faith. >> for more infortion on day's show, visit tav smiley at p.org. >> hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with matthew weiner and jennelfman. that's next time. wel see you then. >> there are so ma things wal-marts looking toward to heing pple live better. because of youhelp, the best

iset to come. >> nionwide insurance proudly supports tavis smile tavis and natiwide insurance, working to improve financial teracy and the economic empowerment that com with it. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ >> and by contributions fr -- to your pbs station from viers like you. thank you. >> we are pbs.