>> rose: welcome to the broadcast. toght as the united natis general assbly meets here in new york, we have a conversation with rahm emanuel, president obama's chief of aff. >> it's a unique mont in time in the region because off strong israi government with a strong prime minister, palestinian authority that's seen by the minute qap people as e best opportunity to see their aspitions. ose who are trying to harm a peace process are n what they we just a year ago or two years ago. that is historic moment of truth. they cane leaders thatave made significant progreson that path and thepresident said in the direct rms of what thei self-interest is. ansince they liveogether side by side, they have a to

response to their people. rose: rahm emanuel for the hour, xt. captning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new rk city, thiss charlie rose. >>ose: we begin this evening with a look at the uted nations genel assembly sessio taking place here in new york. the were three major speeches today. his first address to the

guantanamo everythinworld leaders, psident obama acknowledgeethat unilateralism perhaps was amistake. the president also called for a colltive response to major global probls. >> som of our actions have yielded progss. some have laid t ground work for progress in the future. but make no mistake, thiscannot soly be america's endeavo. those who used to chastise america for aing alonen the world reest k not now stand by and wait f america solve the world's problems alon. we have sought in word and deed a w era of engagent with the world. and now is the time for all of us to takeour share o responsibity for alobal response t global challges. now, if we are honestwith ourselves, we nd to admit that we are not living up that

responsibility. consider the coursehate're on ife fail to confrontthe status quo. extremts sewing tror in ckets of the world, protracted colicts that grind on and on, genocide, mass atrocities, more nations with nuclear wpons, meltincecaps and vaged populations, persistent pover and pandemic disease i say this not to the sew fear but to state a fact. the magnitu of our challens has yeto be met by the measure of our actions. we connue to call on palestinians to end incitement against isrl. and we continue to emphasize that ameri does not accept e legitima of continued israeli settlements. (alause) the time has come to relaunch

negotiions without pre-conditions that aress the peanent status issues: securityor israelis and lestinians, rders, refugee and jerusalem. >> rose: later the was moammar qaddafi wh made his first vis to the united tions. in a 90-minutepeech he both sharply criticized t united tions security council and praised esident obama saying he wanted him to be president for li. ( translated ): we suld resort to the jority of the vos of the general assembly alone and wehould not go. if the geral assembly takes a vote then it should be implented and taken in cisions and no onehould say i am above the general assembly. anyone who saythat i'm higher th or above the geral assembly should leave the united nations and alone. mocracy not for the rich or for the one w terrorizes, t

one whis more powerl for us should have demracy. the uppe worl should see nations as equal footing. now the security councilsy security feudalism r those who ha a pmanent seat procted by them and they are used against them... against us. it should not be called the security council, it suld be called the terror council. weas a matter of fact, we africans are happy, proud that one son of africans governs t united natns of ameri. this is historic event. one day that the blackoesn't go where the whites es a go k t be where the whites are, now the american people, the blackfrican kenyan voted for him and made him president, that is great thing and were prd of that. you are the beginninof a

chan. he did go for a change, but obama is a glimpse in the dark for the four yrs or the next eight years and i'm afraid that we may back to square one. whwill... how can you guarantee after ama? can you guantee after obam how america will be governed? no one can guarantee america. we are content and happy if obama can stay forever as t president of the unitestates of america >> rose: and then there was iranian esident ahmadejad who had th to say >> ( translated ): the time has come to an end for those who defineemocracy and freedom and set standds whi they themselves are the firstho violated fundantal prciples. they can no lonr both in fact the judge a the execur and challge rea democrically established

governmes. so i'd like tt say ain the time has passed for a group of people to believe that they aclo define concepts su as democracy and fedom and hold the criteria for these definitions while simultaneously violating the ver principles to which they pire. governments can continue which are sed on the rule of people. the awakening of nations and the expansion of freedom worldwide will no longer allow others to continue their hypocrisy and cious attitudes. because these reasons, most nations-- including the people of the united states-- are waiting for real arofound changes. >> rose: some of these head of state attendinthe united

nations general sembly will be gog to pittsburgh tomorrow for the g-20 conferen looking at globalconomic issues. in new york today w white house chieof staffahm emanl who serves in one of washington's mos powerl positions. the "new york times" reported of his role in the ainistration "at times it seems as if mr. emanuel as whit hse chief of sta, political director, legislative directo and communications directorall rolled intone. he is emerging as perhaps the most influential white house chief of staff i a generation. he is at the cenr of president obama's respon to a full slate of difficultissues, including the wars in afghanistan and iraq, the middle et conflict, health care, and jobs." i am pleased to have rahm emanuel back onthis program. welcome. rose: thank you,harlie. >> rose: good to see you at this table inew york city. >> nice to be a this tab. feels li old family times. >> rose: (laug) ye indeed. and three raipls have been right here. it's only fiting we're bk.

it's quiet again. the other two aren here. rahm enuel. raip tell me what the president wants to styhe u.n. an to the g- about his leadership a what he eectsfrom the rest of e world. >> well, you kn, iust left his speecht the unite nations. obviouy the major economiesf the g-20 will gathering in pittsburgh and tt the challenges that we have today can only be met by moving together tosolve them, whher that's from climate change, working onnonproliferation, nuclear disarmame, those are chlenges that have to b collecvely met. the uned states commitso working with oer countries in pursuit of those goals because they're common threats. we wheret comes to our self-defen, obviously, we act when it's appropriate and accordingly, but t challges

in saking to a world body-- be they on economic or nional security matte-- are challenges of e nature that requiraction and collective action and america wil lead, but that does not take away from the responsilities others have to lead andhat they say in private should no longer just in b in privatehen they have a responsility to speak up in public and be rt of solving these problems. >> rose: you are... >> h just delivered tt message very forcefully i ought at thenited nations today. >> rose: global cooperation is essential. >>ut also with the rigs at people sk come reonsibilities. anthat means the responsibility of counies in that body take up e allenges that they collectively have and in specic areas, but that in thmiddle east peace process, et, to be a partner in solving these solutions rather tha standing bk and only allow the unit states or individual countries to act when they require collective aion and being partner to that, that means they have sponsibilities not just claiming what rights they have. >> rose: okay.

it also ans that th president can't just l out a agenda d give expression to ideas. there has toe actn. and some are saying... a in a recentnew york times" piece over the weekend, a big piece said... you're smiling becse you read the same stories. >> no, i'm just... well.... >> rose: sayinghat there' a lot of...rom chai trow a wle rae of other places, the unitedations, e president is brilliant in laygut goals but they can'tseem to ge an acon agenda and results and trtion. whethert's afghantan, climate change,or other bi issues. >> well, first of all, i disagree with e prese of the analysis. >> rose: premise an the analysis >> i do. let's just take a couple places. everybody just... when the president got into... was elected... i mean, you've got to go... maybeome people ve short te memory.

mine still seems to be working quite well. we were ced with the worse ecomic situation since the great depression. americwas bogged down in two wars, committed to twowars, one of thewas literallyalled the forgotten war, the other one was place america had been involved in longer an world war ii. and yohad a resurgent ira a situation where tre was no cooperatn or strategy on north rea as well as you can take other places pakistan, which was a coury of concern as related to its nuclear arms and where it was. we had a set of polies and confrontations a conditions, rather, they were quite challenging. we went to theg-20 an we mobilized the rest of the countries to act as you saw toy in the paper, fact, because ofhetimulus action of thenited states tk in calling t other cntries to do it, theconomies ofhe world individually and llectively have pulled back from the worst challenge of the greadepression. now, wre not outof the woods

yet by any stretch othe imagination. but it was arica'seadership, being challeng by others who said that wasn't the right sttegy, laid down the strategy got otr countries to follow that strategy and hav pulled thselves back not just throu threcovery act that we enaed re but through the type of thingshat we did on our financial system witthe stress test andhe clarity that have brought us bk from the worst ecomic condions here at home arou the world, and people credit the united states for leading that eort. that's a. you kn, i remember whe we met in chica during the transition i asked secretary gates what he thought waprobably one of the top two or three most serious strategic cllenges we had and he says pakistan. nuclr... a country with nuclearweapons, a taliban that was on theove and a government that didn't seem rea meet that challenge. today in pakistan the armed forces are out of their barracks and on the battlield challenging the taliban. and it's in a different positn

th it was. we're not ouof the woods there yet. but fromhat we inherited eight months ago, tally different. now i n go down that list. north korea, there's a collective sense of aion bo russia and china with the united states and japan and south korea aboutwhat we have to do and the type of sanctns we've imsed andow north korea has seen that collective action i unison is talking and acting in a diffent way. so you can goin different aces and see changes on the economic front, the national security front, an the cooperation we're geing on both sides from our allies around the world. so theotion that u ven't saidhat these lofty speeches with lofty goals, he has set the goals, he h also got collective aion and in place tolace you'r seeing improvemenfrom where you were eight months ago. w not everyday... not to ovuse a metaphor, not everyda is eleion day. yocan taken asssment of where yoare. but on northorea we're in a different place than what w inherid and impved. in pakistan, improved.

in iran as it related to... the way it was acting in the region, it's now back onits heel rather than bng the kind of power that everybody was.... >> re: that has nothing to do th what we did, did it. that's what e iranian peoe had to d >> well, happen to disagree. >> ros well, telle w. >> tre was a reactn in the rejohn that speech in cairo >> re: clearly there was. >>nd there was ao then an reaction by the anianings.... >>ose: there's a drektlink beeen the cairo speecand the protes that followed the election? >> in lebanon and w the irians viewed the lebanese election. and what you hadas a country that now is in a... is in my view in th regn-- and not just my ew, the assessment of a lot ofthers-- it is t the 800-pound gorilla that it w thate inherited if you look at where it wasight months ago mainly becau of the divisions between theowerenters and the government and its people. it is vwed differeny because ofhe results ofhe election and wh happened. and it is not just a cause/effect but it is... that

ection was iacted by the pocies of the united states... most important thing as he said today, the president in his speech in the uted nations, having removedhe united states as the organizing pnciple for people just to cplain about nodoing somethg. showing our leadership, setting our goals and theeans toet those gos has changed the dynamics. son places around the wld. charlie, you have to... you anale this not just by where we are atust this moment-- although that' one assessmt-- you alyze it b wt you inherited and where we a on that penl. and i think that's.... >> rose: tell me ere we are. >> the economy is dferent. again, notout of the woods but we were literally starg over the abyss. the wod was divided abouthat was thright coursef action. the united states tough two steps-- one onhe fincial de, the other throh economic stimulus to the enomy-- moved the united states, got oth countries to follow that same kind of model and the world economy-- let alonehe united

states pulled from the brink. we have a lot of work to d for steady growth. that just one example. >> rose: letme take them one by one. first of all you mentioned iran. president ahmadinejad isalso speaking to the unedations general sembly today. is is esident obama's message to him about t wishes of the united states to engage with t government of iran that's in power today. >> here's a... let's just take one look at that because your question is obviously tryg to go at what i said earlier. as the presiden of iran comes up and speaks, the world will view him different bause of what happened in iran,nd it's not st a coincidence. it's not just becau president obama got electednd he gave a speech, but a series o things that happed that has openedp fissures inside iran. and he will be vwed different by the other bodies, bythe other countries ofhat body. thpresident's point, as you

know, october 1, the p 5 plus one will be meeting. his int is as the president laid out, there's a pce for gagement, r... iran has choice t make whether ty want tbe responble members of the international community and whatre the enticements to be part ofhat or one that's more of a pariah. >> rose: well, es that chce have to be madend how wil it be expressed before ther is seous engagement between the united states d snern >> you work on both levs simultaneously. they know there are opportunities toeing a member of t intnational community and there's consequences to acting as a ste that doesn't take the responsibilities a member of the international community. >> rose: what is our message to the israis if they decide they want to take military action at some point? >> tt i wouldn't d even though i would le that do it. >> rose: what uld you like to sa (laughs) >>hat is somethi i'm not going to comnt on here. >> rose: ay. but the message to iran, if in fact, you show-- which is a

condition-- if, in fac, you show that you wa toe part of the communitof nations, we're prepar to engage you on all bilateralelationships that exist, wther it has to do with you stopping enriching nuclear fuel. >> a nuclearized an is a threat to the th region. >> rose: everybody knows that. everybody knows that. but as theresident was quite clear in both bilatera meetings as well as he'seen in his communation to the iranian government, they have a choice to make. ey know the opportunitys those choices and the consequencesf those cices. and they will... but at will not happen is, as the president said, merel talking forhe sake of talking. they know, as yogi berra once said, when you get to a fork in the road, take it. they're coming uponhat place where they have to choose at type o country there going to be. >> rose:ow do they make that chce? i just wt to stay with it. >> charlie, maybe you need to get them hereto talk.

that's noty responsibility to represent the anian people. >>ose: but you ve to tell me what the government s to make in order to engaged by the united states. >> it's not engement for the sake of engagemt. >> rose: right. >> they understas it reles to a nuclear iranhat are the consequences of at choice. now, they know whathey have to do. they know what the p-5 pl one.... >> rose: is it becausee told them it's communicated tothem? >> they are awa of the issues. but it' not just a issue, ere's a seriesf issues that relate to what the opportunity of what engagement means and the oppounity of being a couny that is no engaged. >> rose: and it also has to do withsraeli/palestinian issues? >> a whole host of iues. and there's a whole hostf issues... ey understand them. they, as y know, community kated willingness with th united stateto discuss the range of issue, both in the region andheir role in that. >> rose: do you think they cld will helpful on snafz t iranians? >> yes, th can, they c be

helpful. as younow, secrety holbrooke participat in aninternational coerence in which they attended and they have interests there as ll in a stable afghanistan. >> rose: they're very interesd in that. and theye not a fend of the taliban,re they? >> you knothe historys well i do. >> rose: with respect t the middleast, theresident clearly disappointed thatit hadn't started. he tri to add a see of gency for the process to start. day's paper have stories of considering question of settlement where is the president on an issue of concn to both parties on settlements? >> well, he was.... >> rose: has he chged? >>o. i an, he was very clear to both parties about the importance of geing the peace process stted. second, hepoke.... >> ros and disappointed that it had not happened by this time. >>isappointed for them. >> rose:ight. >> they ved side by side.

u can't want this mor than they want it ey have a responsibility to their peoplef they want to make peace and have i a two-state solutionhat's based on the principles of past israeli govements and past americ presidents regaress party have endorsed. as have past palestinn leaders. they have responsibilit don't have... we can't want this me than they wantit. >> rose: and do yo believe they nt it? >> i do... i believe.... >> rose:on both sides? >> yesi do. >> rose: and they're willing t grable with issu like settlements that divide them. >> well.... >> rose: and we have influence with the israeli government on settlementquestion and they're throng what we say. >> we have a veryeep relationip with the government of. not just this gornment israel but the country of isra as it relates to its security.... >> rose: as the netanyahu governmentisappointed you about... >> t president was clear about the issuef the settlements. let's step back. as he has said repeatedly, no president s gone in front of the arab world and talked about the right of iael to est as

he did in th caispeech and that america'sriendship with israels deep andunbending and cat be broken. he has also. and is willing to be, as he haslways said, when it comes to iendship to bei honest. he belves settlemen that can be provocative to a peace process in theegative sense. now,he israeli govnment has made a step that oer israeli governments ven't made to date but it's not evething the palestinians want. on the otherand, the paleinians today are in a stroer position than they've ev been to engage in a peace process to finally aieve the goals for e palestinian people. >> rose: because of things that they he done, the palestinians themselves have done. and the president's messag, i think, to bot parties was i think veryroper. some pointou have to show a little impatien. th have got to want this and if they nt to get started on the road to building that peace, th have got not only to wan it now put aside the talks and the negotiationsbout the negotiations a begin the negotiations. and you can't start as if there

hasn't beea process. on the other hand you have to also acknowledge that you have a new governme that wantso bring certain issues to the table. i willay this. the former ime minister of israel always had... well, ambassador to e united nations had aa saying which was the palestinians never miss an opportity to miss an opportunity. that should not beme a paradi for either the isrli government or for the palestian parties. and that seize this opportunity. it's a unique moment in time in th regn because o strong iseli government with a song prime minister, a palestinian thoort is seeny the pastinian people as the bt opportity to seek their aspirations. those o are trying to harm a peacerocess are not what they re just a year ago or two years o. this is ahistoric moment of truth, thecan be lders that have made significantrogress

on that path and the predent said in the dirt terms of what their sf-interest is in... sincthey live together side by side, they have that reonsibility toheir people. as the president said just now at the united natio, no ild should g tosleep feing another roet and no child in the gaza shou not have the right access to running water. and they a leaders hav a responsibility to the ople they represent to ha a better... to work tirelessly fo a betteruture. and then he... as theresident said i thinkimpatiently and since my wife often describes me a very patient personhat >> rose: n just your wife. >> right stl overvalued qualityn my view. but the fact is negotiations about negotiations need to come to an en and theard work of maki... negotiating peace must begin. >> rose: okay, tell me wha risk you think arabhave to take and the pestinians have to take and the surrounding countrs and what risk the raelis have to ke. wh is thalt th haveto do

and what risk in terms of leverage is the united states prepared to do? this is what an action agenda is out. not justsaying we're urgent, we're got to do this because there's huge consequences. sayingf you don't do th, is is going to happen ifou do this, this will happen. and were... >> well.... rose: and we have political... we have a lot o political capital rit now becae a new president with a strong message to the muslim rld... >> you suld know. correc anas the president said to both parties, first of all, have lot of other challenge. i n't have an inexhauible 5789 otime but'm willing to spend whater time it tas to help but not more than y're willg to take. ly spend politil capital, as he has in the heart of the ab worlin cairo. talk aut the right of the state of iael to exist in tha region as a secureountry and america willlways have that friendship and it runs dee and he has also said he's willing to challee the isrli government and friends when

thinks they're wrong, as he has shown on the settlingment, in a public w as well as in private. so they ve his trust to be an honest broker. don't miss that opportunity >> rose: all rig, he believes net jew a practical person? >> well, i'm not goingto give you...f course the president believes he's a practical person. he's a democratically elect leader who whos representing the people tha elected him and wh they elected him on... to do. and he has shown in the past that he'll take risks. the risk for peace in the president's view are less tn the risks ofot making peace. and en you... and, remember, you ar always in a judgment of what are the... you kno the tradeos. are the risks to making peace? sure. how do they compare to risks of not making peace? anthe risk to making peacere much more valuable... the risks to making peace a much more enriching and promiseing than the risks of not making peac because the atus quo is unacceptab because what you do in the status sqo you give the

opponents ofeace a veto. >>ose: let me move to afghanistan. >> i want t.. this is a very important point tohe peace process. if you n't make progress and engage in the process of making peace you h.i.v. hamas and hezbollah and iran dwhosre enemies of the peace pcess and vocal opponentsf it-- a veto. and e worst thing to d by not ving is to give the opnents a veto what's your hands and ur responsibility to not let them have. because you can do something at this moment in time. thatas the challenge to both prident abbas and.... >> rose: and t united states is prepared to ban honest broker. >> yea and the reason. some people saidesterday that was a photo-op. no, he challenged him publicly which means they now have to go home a face thepeople they represent about the oppounitys of pce versus t riskof not taking action. >> rose: wt's been the impact of thepublication inhe "washingn post" of the mcchryst report for the

present? >> well, here's wh's... i think all us at t white house findnteresting. the president asked for this report becausee wants an honest assessment sincwe have huge amount of resours committed. yo have ,000 arican tops there, a tremdous amount notonly of hun resrces-- our best tizens who have committed a life to the armed forces-- to sess where we e post the election. this iwhat he asked general mcchryal. "i've been there four months, give me an assessmt." evybody wants to rush to one thing: i need re troops. >> rose: well, wait, erybody wans to do thator is th what general mcchstal said. that's the question. not whethereverybody wants to do tha what d the report say? if w don't more rources withinhe next year, it may be too late to defeat. t taliban. >> but, charlie as you know, that'sne question in a

comprehensive review of the licy. now, one of the this we've seenefore, if you commit troops bore you thinkthrough sttegy.... >> rose:kay, the president has be very clear aut that >>o quote... i've seen thi movie before. when a you do.... >>ose: (laughs) at was the name of thamovie in >> it's not pretty. when all you do is talkbout troops and get to a conclusion, this is wh the troops are wiout knowing the strategy.... >> rose: okay... sgu >> but but two other things. it's very portant for the american pple to know that the ttle against al qaeda i going all across the world. yo saw it in solia, the indian ocean, you e it here at home with state and local w enforcemt and you see what we're doing inarts of pakistan. ok? and wh is being operated i the afte pack area, what's operated in the indian ocean, what operating als with state and local law enforcement. that battle isoing on. the troops that are there desee a constant review of the poli of whether we are doing

and aieving the president's goals and what's best. >> rose: here's what troubles me about that. here's t question that comes out that. from day one wherichard holbrooke was appointed a a ecial representative to afghanistan a pakistan there s under way a revie is now six monthslater and wee still review. >> no, no.... >> rose: you brout... because i interewed him. the president of pastan and the president of afghanistan washgton. i interviedthem. tother. you've had a whole series of people coming in ere. now all of a sudden we thought the strategy had bee set. and that what general mhrystal was doinwas simply giving his assessment on the grnd. now it seems like the president is sayi, "wait a minute. e election didn't go e way... there's some real questions abt that election." e president is sayg things the ground have gotten worse anthe president is saying i need to reconsider because maybe we do not have the right rategy. >> no, wait, crlie.

off... there's a series of questions on a counterinsurgency. not just how my troops you put in. what's your partner rey to do. >> rose: that's nato. >> not just nato. >> rose: the afgnistan people. >> right. we had an eleion that let's just say is inconclusive atne vel. but if you rd the report and you read any review of any counterinsurgency,t's dependent on the government and its legitimacy to its people. now, the united state- and, again,'d like to remd people 've been at a war for eight yes. it was once called the forgotten war. it was also once... it w for a long te, as ihinkcchrystal report knows... said, he didn't realize, as hsays in the report, howad it was. that i it wasithout a strategynd was not resourced. not foa year,ot for two years,ot for three years, for eight yes in the region where al eda had launched the attacks. so the pple that are fighting today have a strategy general mcchrystal is... incredibl

leadership is leading that effort with 68,000 troops the president ordered the additional 21,000, again, it's 68,000. the nal parts of that are just arriving. ior to election, the president said "i wantyour assessmt." and he's askedothers for the assessmentf how best to hieve the goals. it is only natural a president... and he wants hear from l parties. >> rose: is going to be hard to turn downheecommendation ofhe general that he put in command there and he said to him "i'll give you... in terms of talent, in terms of talent, the best generals we have t be there with you." >>ou know, this is... you kno charlie, this is one of the biggest decision it president's going to mak >> rose: okay, tell me wha the decision is. what is the decision and what are the option >> the decision what are the best means means to hieving our goal to root... to make sure that there's not a safe placefor al qaeda andl qaeda allies to do harm to

america here at me and our interests around theworld. that is the goal. now, the queion issome people think there ardifferent means to dng that. thereare different ways. and thpresident wants to hear from all of them. he asked r... you know, it's one thing if there was a report produceed that the command in chief didn't ask for. he asked for this becse he was an honest assessment. yodon't just say "here's my strategy, i have 68,000 troops, don't talk to me again about this." a commandern chief has a responsibity when you have th much treasure both han and financial committ by the united stes-- to constantly sess how best are we hieving that. the reurces question o additionalroops on top of the 21,0 that was ordered by the president, is that the best way or there anher strategy? let me tell youhis. n't think for a momen that the armed fors aren't aays

constaly assessinginternally whether they're on the right course. that is what the armed forces ardoing, that is what your cilian leadership is doing and that is what the commander in chief anthe president of the united states isoing. itould b totally irsponsible to make a decision and then say "i'm notoing to review i" charlie, i know this, and this is not of the same weight, you constant think about this sho and thcourse you're on. of cose you do. i as the chief of stafto the esident, i'm alwaysaking a step bacand saying "are we doing this the rit way? is there anoth way to do this?" the armed fces today and even prior to the mccystal rert consntly took a.... rose: i assume this is whit house, too, a the state departmenttoo. withespect t something a important as afghanistan andhe battle against t taliban and al qaeda and remembering the taliban gave a safe hav to al qaeda and refuse to turn them out en the united states cam d said "we want those gs." >> tt's a complated history and it'sot just that simple

but corrt in the end. ere's been some repor, in fact, the talan was willing to ve a discussn, the united states didn' so it's a.... >> re: fair enough. it's left to history. >> left the historians about that complexity. the fact is, there's not a change in thebjectives, there's a discussion. and i want you understand, the sources of troops is one piece. there's also whole.... >> rose: and what's t most important ece other than the resoce of oops? an evaluation of what t afghans areprepared to do themselves? >> if you look at the hisry... that's exactly right ifyou look at thhistory of counterinsurgency, you have a reliable partner to achieve the goal throughout the country. now, l me ask y a question: what's the g.d.p.f afghanistan? >> rose: i have nodea. >> les just.. it's abo a billion dollars. >> rose: okay. >> what is the goals for armed forc that are necessaryfor afanistan to achieve..to be a relile partner that where afghan is in thelead in fding thtaliban. >> rose: what ist?

>>north of 200,000 afghan tros in a country wi a g.d.p of billion dollars. >> rose: so it's more a meurement of the g.d.p. than is the nature of the geography and e tribal influence and allthat? but you have difrent tribes.. >> rose: and a bder with a country thatffers a safe haven? >> right. you have different tribes, you ve different ethnicities. what you havs in the northeas is difrenthan what's in the southwest. now, wait a second. you have whether a country econically can afford to do who being asked of it, to be a partner. there is a complexity. if you try to say the entire effort on afghanista comes down toust what commit. e united states will make on troop size and troop commient, you're missi the complexity of the situatn. >> rose: a that... >> and that ha happened in history and it is the wrong way to go abou thinking throu america's tional.... >>ose: and that's the centra message of the obama administration tay on afghanistan. this is not just aboutroops. we will reach the dision about troops, we listen to our commander in t field but there are other factors we have t lien to, includinghefghans and our state department and

everybody. >> a our allies. >> rose:nd our ales. >> and the otherhingly tell you is ere isn't a general who hasn't ce and spoken t the presidt who hasn't saidhat this is re complicated than just the troop d when i said earlier is to reduce t argument to one shlt as if that is it, that is the... what is an essential ingredient, but the that is it, th decision can be made. e fact is, this is mor complicated and it deals with the region arica's interest, what are do you achieve e goal and there's a civilian and internationacomponent that you weigh all thos equities constantly. >> rose: all right, leme move to trade quickly becse i have a cole mestic questions and you ha to catch a plane and i nt to make sure i get allhis . trade, the tariff on tires om china. are we looki at a prectionistrend thatill influence tre around the sfwhorld the chine are n happy about th, as you know. and a lot of american companies

are not happy abo china's trade policies andtheir products havg access toheir marks and the united states and this president clearly has some... cole... three things, arlie, real quick. >>rose:... relatnship with the unions tt supported hi well, you can see on education 's willing to challenge ales when it ces to america's interts. he's taking on quote/unquote the teachers' union in his pursuit of charter schools, teacher testg, student tesng and accountability. >> rose: and he's prepared to do the me thing with respecto ade, yes? >> three things real quickly. he a firm believer in e both ee trade. two, this was a case... a clear se as it relatesto the violations. and, third, if youook over the next 20 years, 15 years, americs economic growth is going to ce from more exports around the world. so while the action here is appropriatto this specific case, the psident's cmitment to freetrade as a principle for econom growth of the united states is unwaivering

>> rose: willwe see more, though? mo tariffs cong down? >> that's not... i wouldn't look at this and saythere's more to come. that was particular ca in this situation. if there's aclear violation, we'll do it. you know,art of havg fe ade is that wh the rulesare being violated, you've got to call it. >> rose: all rht. is there... saking of the economic rovery which you lked about. you know, in t health care reform effort, what has percolat to the top also is this question of how much a health ce debate doyou think is about oth things oth than heal care and what are they? and hodo youee this battle? >> how do i e that bate? >> rose: yeah. >> well... how muchmore time w got? >> rose: 12 minutes. >> i'm joking. thers a.... >> rose: you know how much time wee got? long as you want. (laughs) i almost got in trouble on foreign policy.... >> rose: your title is not

"staff member," it "chief of staff." >> well, my wif like to rind me it's "sff." >> ros are (laughs) >> that's at home. >> thas too rich to just ave on the table. >> rose: (laughs) i know. i keyed it up for you, didn't i. >> well, first of all, at the core the issue of health scare about the factthat just ten years ago erican famili were paying $5,0 a year f health care day on average they're paying $13,000. it more than double. kaer permanente just did a study a week ago showing it's going to double inhe next ten years. now, the avere american fily nnot continue to see thr incomes grow if health ce costs are doubling every ten ars. it is sapng the economic opportity of... that's basically. that ubling of the health ce expees in the last ten yea explainshy median houhold income in the last tenyears shrunkin

america. >> rose: and that's the reason so many people have tried to do sothing about health care reform and this administrion at this time, according to the o.m.b. cef, may very wel hav it passed by congress by november. >> rose: right. well, here's the goal. you've got to solve this for america's economic competitiveness and the peacof mind for amerin families that they can always have health re they can afford. the president made a fdamental decision, the right decision, we're going to build on the system we have, employerased alth care. it has bn tried, as you noted, by hry s. truman, lyndo johnson, richard nixon, jimmy carter, president cnton. ere have been different successes at health care. medicare, medicaid vetera heal care, children' health care for children of pents who work whout it. we hav succeeded in society i those kind of incremental... not incrementa medicare is not... it is an incremental step but it was for seniors individually.

this is the mt recent attempt at universal car and we a farther along th any of the st five efforts i just mentione >>ose: you're in sight. >> yeah, withisight. and i believe ce the sene fince cmitteewith chairm baucus gavs down his bill having been vote out of the committee we'll be so much more clos and then it's matter of literallbringing those bills together and getting itthere. what is it.... >> rose: so it wl be deced in conference? >> well, there's no doubt will be decided on the sete floor, the house floor, and in conference >> rose: and whathe senate will pass will be eential play chairman baucus. with some amendments? >> well, you kw you also have... there's amendments in the committee you have to merging with setor dodd what heroduced in his ll, which is very strong. bualso, the avere family y will n know that youannote discriminad against based on pre-existing conditionfrom insurae companies. you'll be able to always have acce to health care even if you lose your job and keep the health care you have. there will be otr types of insurance reforms that basically

for those whhave healthcare have bn denied that type of access. and r those who d't, you'll have affordable,ccessible health care. now, the larger question . 's a collage to the politica system tha we saw both when president clinton tried universal health car and esident bush tried social security reform. the challenge is can the polical system our government todays president bush has sd inhe past, can it still do big things to meet the challenges to make it more mpetitive and a better society. that is also the chaenge of health care. is the system up to theask for big chalnges? >> rose: a what's your answer? wel see? that i believe we're goi to pass it because it's essential to do. the members of congress know it's esstial. rose: there are people w say this president cannot afford not to passealth care because ofll that's been invested. itannot happen. he does not get health care reform passed, some vaation, he can't g.. the outlook for

congress in theext election will not be good. >> at's a political analysis and not wrong. i willsay this: he has done a children's health careill. he has pasd the cobra refms in t recovery act. he has made a... abt a $40 billion instment in upgradin our heth carei.t. so the records ar electronic. t this is the final stone ve somethinto the syste that i doesn't have and insure. the report came out just the other day that youan both reduce the deficitand insure 30 million more peoplend it shows that the key to fiscal disciplinein putting the american budget and its fial house in ordertarts and ends with alth care reform. >> rose: what does the president say to thoseit whix y the necessity of deali with the ecomic crisis and heah care and rescuing the auto companies and all ofthat has p this countron a dangerous roadf too much vernment intervention with no exit strategy. >> well,'m... first of all,

on the financial side, you'r alrey seeing that we're... the pieces arealready are starting to be putn place that iyou want to ca them the nd of edifice to supporthe system when the system w is able to nction on its own, we're going to sta removing those... the scaffolding that was suppoing the systemn the midd of the crisis not precipitously. on the other han, it's clear that the need to give it financia assistance thanks now are ying back money wit a profit. the type of assistanceor banks to issue debt wre the government had to guaraee it, they can now doithout it. so tho pieces are coming back as they should and receding, thoswaters are receding cause the financial system is a more stablesystem than it was before. how that relates tohat you just said.... >> rose: and has stainability. and has sustainability and unemployment wl go down. >> right. the goal is this. absolutely e number one job for us on the economy is bs. the other piece that you asked, and what's caught up in the

health care debate is what is the role of govement today? and that is a very fair and point to be discussed and it's an important pnt to have. and the question i the president didn't come her, as he says, t run an auto company it wasn't on his to-do list it wasn't somethi he chose to do. thmoment in time in crisis fored us tdo something, forced us to also rce the auto coanies to do something they hadn't done for 20 years. theyadn't done what s finally forced on them, which i a restructurinof theiralance eet. theyinally aeed to aile standards as i relates .... >> rose:o you're sing in t end th country thor president wants nothing do aft the economic crisis d the recovery is under way wants notng do with running... with the u. vernment running financial sector businesss or any other nufacturing businesses in th countries. he wants to get out of that as fast as he can and is family viab. >> zero interest i runninghem and, b, when we do emerge, at

we put in place th.. what he calls the new fountion both in health ce, energy, financial regulationnd education s the economy is on a sustainable path without government assistan and the way that we have an? this cris. >> se: i know you will just hit this out the park but thiss a quote from a yale.. >> i hate when you set the bar that way. >> rose: (laug) yale profit david... >>re we playingn little league park for full national league pk? >> rose: think ofenway park, okay? "the cautiousns of oba's six months of predent shows a pattern of aommodations that land him on the far side of actual prudence. his instinct is have all e establishmentsn his side-- read inrance companies,or example-- t tried bipartisanship every time a you willasteour life. and when did the publicsay it wanted bartisanship?" what doe the chief of staff say about bipartisanip so far? and into t future? >>well, the president has been

very directbout the fact he wants to always reac out and will aays reach outnd welcome ideas. and you sawit when he just gave his joint session speechhe other day on health care. there are going to be bipartisan ideas and policies in thi alth care bill. be it an idea that senator mccain advocated during presidential primary. it will in the bi. so theinal product wi be bipartisan. if republican or individuals decide to vote for it, that's thr choice. >> ros the policy will be bipartisan. whetr you get votes... >> l's step back. >> rose: not whether you get republican votes or not. >> the republicans have decided in the worst economic crisis-- outse of three of them in the senate-- not voteor the recove act that waso essential to getting u out o the... basically out of what was e jaws of adepression. two, a number of them, though, more than three, jned us in passing the children's health

ca bill. seven if my number is exactly right. the coumer credit ca forms that we had, 70 plus in the hoe vot. numerous in the sete. we've had ceain successes overall haven't. now, you should ao understand that may no behat we have tried to do, that may be a statement of what'sappening on the republican side. but the president has been very clear. we will ner, ever stop trying. whether they gb his hd.... >> rose:o you're aays asking them for new ideas if they have any. >> always. >> rose: all right, fine. >>onstantly. rose: health care will be passed by novber 3 and it will esntially be what comes out of the financ committee. correct orot? >> health care will be passed before the members g home for thanksgivi and, b, itill not just be on the sena finance coittee because the legislative procs a place where both bodies get to contribute. >> rose: and it will not have a publicption feature. i'm not going to say (laughs) that has to be what the conference has to notiate but i do think.... >> rose: can pass with a

public option feature? >> i think senate's been clear abouthe prospect tre is. that doesn't mean in the house they'rnot going to come t the table and demd it. >> rose: i've got to get you out of here. listen to this, this is the from the "new york times," august5. "the character of mr. emanuels a profanity spewing operative has given a way to a nuanced view. a profanity ewing erative wi a keen understding of how to employ power on behalf of..." this was just a month ago. "a new bt with retively little exrience in washington. although rentlesessly differential to t president, . emanuel is more chief than staf" (laughs) while some predecessors husbded their authority, lest it beeluded,riends say he beeved the more someone used power,he more power that person had. do you agree that? is that a philosophy you agree? the more y use power... >> the profanity piece or the power? >> rose: the power. we all know the profanitpiece. >> those are easy words

>> rose: that your ew of power? u better use it, the more you use, t more you get. >> power is... in pitics power isot static. it's not... and itdoesn't mean you just use it willy-nilly. you use it stragically and surgically but as you use it and accumula it, it's to used... it's not to be used. you can't huand it. it's n like a thing you sit over herand put underneath blankeor underneath your pillow. it dsn't mean you use it randomly. itoesn't mean y're careless about it. you' sttegic and surgical about it as youse it, if you're successful, it accumutes to achie other goals, t just as sothing you kind of husba er here. >> ros here's one criticism here. that you gs in the white house... >> one? >> rose: wl, beyond power, that you guys in the house loing at the president, loing at the viceresident, looking at the chief o staff and otrs are too congress-centric. you're too... you're listening too much to the congress rather

than... >> let me tell you right now, loong's congress's view. rose: (laughs) ll tell you who we lten to, the american peopl >> rose: how d you dohat? >> you could see the other d in the psident's jointession speech. he hrd their concerns about certain things about whawas he trying to accompli in health care and he addresse a lot of that in whatere they going to get out of it, what ty didn't have to fe, what werehe changes that he was seeking that would crue to their benefit anso, you know, in a democratic system there rely one bs. and that's the american people. and do we... you asked me, you know, are we too.... rose: too congressional-centric. >> you have two senators who are thpresident and vice president former senators and the chief of staff who's a former member of congress but i wi tell you, don't think congress thinks wee

toocentric. the challenge to you politically will be if you eve lose touch in what the american people are seeking, overread what they're asking for. on the other hand, don't underestimate eir desires for what they would like and tir asrations for you to accomplish. so i think president'siew is there's real one boss here d where we have to be confidentlentric and what i think somemes happens in this debate in washington i you lose sit of what's happeningin people's lives aund the kitchen table, ding room table, in their family room. whats reall on their mind. up into and ha that occasionally happenein the last six months? >>t's almost impossible wn you're doing what you're doing not to he that... not to kind of ge off key. but you have a psident and vice president who are really ounded in what their goals are and the... what they... what their sense of the american ople. i alwa say, younow, get out

of the bubble, the's something going on, there's huge disparities beeen how the american people viewsomething versus how washington vie someing. and remeer we have an audience and a public tt is our main... that is above everything else. >> rose: i have to let you go cause you have a plane catc i thank you for coming a very sy time at the united nation iope we can do thisgain. >> we will thks, charlie. captioning sponsed by rose cmunications captioned by media access group at wg access.wgbh.g