>> charlie: welcome tohe broadct tonight. the prime minister of israe benjam netanyahu. >> orwhelming the people show rerkable courage. ey're tested. th stood up for freedom truly inspirational courage. ifou have pressur, significant economic pressures on this regime, particularl the imication of gasoline, this could make the regime, might force the regime to choose or to

withstand ability. it's noteen put to that test ani think there a saying bit, o of the grt sages of jewish history, ifnot now when. so i y echoing m, if not now when areyouoing to apply those cryptic sanctions the time to do tha is now i asked the palestinians a ver sile question. suppose we solve these problems, borders, territories. will you then everyne of them, i want know a simpl question, willou recognize the state of israel, jews have been divided when the conducted a war against us for 50 years. will you recognize th state of israel as theationtate of the jewish people. you ask me an my people to recognize the palestiniantate as the palestinian state of the

people, would u recognize israel as the nation state of the jewish people and the answer out to be very mple. yes. >> charlie: the prime minister of israel for the hour, ne. captioning sponsored b rose communitions from ourtudios in new york ci, this is charlie rose. >> charlie: we begin is evening with t prime minister israel, benjamin netanyahu, he is in new york atteing the

unit nations generalssembly meeting. i spoke him yesterday at his hotel about his perspective on the midd east. today, he addressed the unite nationgeneral assembliment here is some o what he said. >> i sat here today as the prime minister of israel, the jewish state. and i speak to you on behalf of my country and my peoe. e united nationsas founded after thcarnage of world war ii, after the horrors of the holocaus it was crged with preventin threoccurrence of such n the horrendous events. sterday the president of ira stood at this ver dium,

spewing his latt anti-semec nts. just a few days earlier he again claimed that t holocaust i a lie. i'm proud that my cntry isra is at the foreont of many of these advances, science and technologynd medicine and biolog an agriculture and water and ergy and t vironment. these innotions and my country and many of your countries offer humaty mutual of unimagined promise. but if the most fanaticis can acquir t most deadly weapons, the marc of hisry could be

rersed for a time. and like the belated victory over the nazis will prevail after blood and fortune s been acted from mankind. this is y the greatest threat facing the world today is the marriage between relious fundamentalism and the weapons of mass destrtion. the most urgent challenge facing this body day is to prevent the tyran of tehran from acquiring nuclear weapons. are the members of unid nations to that challenge. will the internatnal community confront despotism tt rrorists its own pple as they bravely stand up for freedom. will it tak action against the dictators o stole an election in bro daylht and then

gunn downranian protesters who died in the sidalks on the street choking in tir own blood with the intercommunity towa the world's more peritiate sponsor and practical cisier of terrorism. above all will the inteational communit stop t terrorists regime o iran fro developing atomic weans. theby endangering the peace of e entire wor. the people iran are courageously standing up to this reme as dothousandses of people who have been protesting and demonstring outside this hall all o ts week. ll the united nations stand by their side.

well ladies a gentlemen, the jury's stillut on the united nations. >> charl: and here's a nversation that i had with the pre minister yesterday at his hotel here i nework. first of al thank you, mr. prime minister for seeg us >> it's been a lg time. i don't want to say how long. >> charlie: you'vebeen out of power. do you see israeli issues, israeli palestinian issues, israeli arab sues different, ving spent ten yearsaway. >> sure. i see everything different. how? you get old, greater. probably i'd liketo think wiser. anyou think about what it is that you can do t make a lasting impact, difference. and you know, it takes least two to tango in this particar danc t if we see a paleinian

leership that is as committed to peace as the lat anwar sadat did -- we're waiting for real peace partner. >> waiting to d what? >> make peace and peace means ha you to have basic reciprity. and the question is reay what is the basi problem. people tnk it's territories. these are all problems that hav to be resolve from the 19 20's. we left every square inc of gaza and still they fireockets into what th say is oupied

palestin theyhared it and so on from the north and the south. so i asked the palestinians a very sple question. suppose we solve these prlems, border territories, will you then ery one of these, i waed toknow a sime question. will you recognize the sta of israel. jews wer dividednd they conducted a wargainst us f 50ears. will you recognize the state of israel as the nation ste of the jewi people. u ask me and m people to recognize thpalestinian state as the state of the palestinian people, will you recognize israel as the tion state of theewish people. and the answer ought to be very simple. s. >> charlie: y know the reasonle they don't dthat. >> why do you think ty don't do that, if i can switch roles r a moment. >> charlie: i would think demographics and who youould define as eligible and things like that.

>> i think it's not that rean. i think that the palestinian society is not forgiving. on the other side are hamas and the other extre groups that openly say want destroy the ate of israel. they fe thousands of rk inteets r territory and make no bones about it. on the other side are more moderate faction. they say welle're not espousing teor, we're doing other things but they don't real say it's ov. ey don't say wel we'll get the state and we cse the conflict, ceas all cims agains israel, weake a permanent peace with the jewish state. cause for my of them, there is a subtextnd theubtext we ge a state not to end the conflict but to pertuate the confli with better terms. and they fod them with the refugees and offspringnd

attal fies israel as aewish state. i say lo i wantto join this issue because this is where the guts, the soul of israelipeople is. everyby wants to make peace. ere's a desire, a hunr for piece that is fantastic. but e same -- >> chaie: the wel of the israeli people and the wl of thpalestinian people. >> i think this is an intestingistic. 70 to % of the israelis say they'll make ccession to a pee and there's 80% say thers one to make a concession too. they want an answer. they wantonow that t lestinian side will cease the conflict once we have a peace agreemen that the stat will not be a skateboard for future attacks. so when i put foard this qution of recognizing a jewh state, notin t religious sense, obvious it's a nation state of theewish people and

there areon-jews there. the arabs, israelis e citizens like everyone else they participate in the government and so . they have eal rights. it's not a question. but theefugees, the palestinian revenues go to the palestinian states just as the jewish refugees from arab lands go int israel and the are no more claim and i think this is a substantive point. this ithe heart of t conflict. this conflict has been perpetuatefor so many duke -- my latest speech,t wasn't ey r me. d i said we'll recognize a palestinian ste, but we asd do the palestinia recognize the jewish state which ought to be a fairly simple exercise. and i think that'shat they' graping with. >> chaie: what do you think their problem withhe words jewish state is? >> i thi it mea the end of

any claims on israel, on the negave or the galilee where you have a sizeabl minority. i ink that also means at there won't be this inflood of refues palestinian refugees. whatever happens isrl as a jewish state cease to exist. itught to besimple to say a ndred years after,ore than a hundred years after hertzel publishehis great manifesto the jewish state and after president obama today -- yesterday i suppose it would be in your time saide needo recognize th jewish state. weecognize the jewish ste. it ought to be a fairly simple exercise from the palestinian ma toe. it's not hamas to say that. >>harlie: was that lguage you urged the presidento

>> i've been speaking about it for time. it's not the psident of t unitedtates who has to be urged, it's the president of t palestinian authority. i thk mr. abbas ha to decide is he under our courtrussein or anwaradat, on the side of these o great leaders o ood upand said it's er. or is he wbling. >>harlie: fair enough. what do yohave to decide? what kind of leader are you are you a beg. >> any tim >> charlie: what about ael sharon. >> that's laterally -- >> charlie: exact because it ought be negotiate because you out to get sothing from it.

>> because heant able peace on the other side of t fence. you don'twant another hamas another iranian base on the territory you vacate. so the's really two condions for peacenotortarting peace goacialsz, i pce no pre conditio on it b i think the reallearerms for succsful resolution ithe negotiations once started. one is recognition. the pal steenlz have to recognize the jewish stat just as we askedand are prepared to recognize e palestinian state. what kind of a leader ? i'm the one, t leader w stood before his own people, his own party and sai that just a few months ago. >> charlie: knowut -- >> second has to be a militarized paleinian state. it can't be a ptform for additional, fothousands of rockets th are then rned on our ads. and signing aiecef paper by self doesn't guarane that. it has to be solid solid. charlie: and israel has to control theorders you said. and are air space, israelill

control the air space too. there are many palestians and others bond that who say that the state y propose for them wahardly a state. >> y is thought. >> charlie: becau they wouldn't cell the air space, theyouldn't control the borders, they uld not have had -- they had to be totally demilirized. israel is rong both in terms on of of military and idea. an >> we are strong. >> charlie: exact. >> we can move great streth to extreme vulnerabily in a heart beat. thiss our problem, do you know what, becau wee so small. now if you're a sma country like monaco -- just take a country le belgium or

luxembourg, who areurrounding byeighbors who t ly call for -- destructn but throw 12,000 rockets into that tiny country, you think we have real problems. now these rkets, 1000, 12,000 rocketsalling on the united stat that is compreed to the si of new jerse at would make yo think. >> charlie: no leader wod want that to happen. no leader willtand by while that's happening, none on the other hand -- >> what would happen. >> charlie: well that's an interesting qution. how doou de fineour curity and how you get to the pce where you are more secure in your strength than you are even today. and at is helping to see a strong palestinian eity. andou agree wh that. >> yes, i do. >> crlie: you agree wh at and you're tryingo do something about that. >> not only ar we doing it, i thk that involves a thirdeg. i mean, peace stands on three legs. one i recognition, whi is rely another word for

letimacy. >> charl: the arab nations are l prepared when you talk about the palestinians, all arab nations are prepared recognize. >> predent obama said somethg quite significant today. he said,nd i think he was alluding to this. th is my interetation but i thinit's aairly accurate one. he said to the arab world, you know, it's time to speak out in the en, what you say privately. have a common thread, iran and we have common sire. you can't just whisper it in the corridors, you know, qetly. you me out and act on itand normalize the relations with israel. so number one, legitimacy. numb two, security. number three, and this is what you were askg, prosperity. i think i makes a tremendous difference with young palestinianso hav jobs.

>> charlie: hop >> hope. as y drive on the rode, one closer to the palestini area. you drivefrom tel avivto jerusalem. on yr left you see romalo. if you see sprouting from the ground not rockets but gleaming apartmentbuildings andoffice blocks, that has a tremendous, makes a tremendous differee what palestinians, and chaie it makes a tremendousdifference to the israelis becausethey belie somethingelse is possible. forhe last s months, w had no talksnd unilaterally,t's my decisn. >> charlie: t last six months of no talks. >>e removed hundreds - unilaterally, hdreds of road blocks, cck points. we had 147 check points. we reduced it to 14. they work around the clock. i went to the jordan river bridge connecting the west bank to the rest of the arab world and said we'll exten the time for passage on this brink. i want goods, servis, people, trucks to pass backnd forth to

the west bank economy. people sai we can't do it, mister, we don't have the budg. i saidyou have the budget, just do it. we've extended times on the bridge, we're deang with. i personally chaired a committee tonclog all sts of bureaucratic hurds. i checked sewage,lectricity. i want to know why these projec are not beg moved by our sidement if the are impediments on tir side that's a different matt. that's wt i do because i believe in this. i belie that process interrity helps peace. we used to ink that peace will brinprosperity i think it's the other y around or at least creates the condition for the polical process to succeed. i think there's mething dierent goingon in the wt ba. >> charlie: you're beginning

to soundike -- >> what'wrong withhat. >> charlie: thas a central idea hs articulatedor a long time. here another question about the politics. how mu freedom do you have. you talk abo saying y want a ben, you got a budget, y need ople to do this, we're going to withdraw. i'm the prime mister, i'm going to take this chae. but othe worry about this collation you have. and they worry about how much moability you haveo do the things that y may very well nt to because you had to put togethereople who might have a differt idea about israel's secuty, israel's destiny. and the way to get there. and alsoabout thelight of palestians, i think there's actually a much bigger consensus in israel which i trie to express at a speech i gave, and i s amazed at t response, amazed. >> charl: amazing in what way because of what you said. >> because i said that what we

reallyeed is the peace with palestinians wouldonsist of a demitarized state that included aewish state. the respons wasverwhelming. cut ross the ght and e left, i' not talking about the extreme fringes wi never be tisfied. i think this expresses the yearningor piece and als the basic two conditions, regnition and security that raelis would call us. and isrlis are very generous people, if they believe there's a sadat on the other side, a kingussein on the other side. and i ho that we encouer such leadehip. but u asked what did i learn i learned two this. one is uni. what ithe bgest mistake y de as pri minister.

>> charlie: good question. >> i believe maybe you asked me. the biggist mistake was let jo hands and form agovernment forhe purposefpeace and security. well, didn't just say it, that exactly what did know. i turned to barak who w head of the labor par and said that's joihands for peacend security. if iael makes peace oy from the posion where the great bo of people are convinced that thell have secury and they'll have the other side that recogniz the state of iael. >> charlie: hat includes your forei minister. you wod say the same thin to him. >> i sayhe same thinto everyone. >> crlie: does he respond the same way. that's a questio with two very different views of the destiny of israel. >> i they wan proof. they a want proof. they're all willing to go a great distance but they want to be sure. themargins ofour exience are

so fragile. understand what it means toet zens or thousands. they don't just ra on our pulations, on our cits, that bad enough. one's been subcted to this. charlie: no one denies that either. >> the pointis charlie,f we miss out, most of the rockets, 95% of the rockets hurl agnstsrael are hued from the adjact territories, nearby territories. and they hurled at our cities which is an unbieve problem bucan also beurled at our air bases at critical installation for defense. so if we blow it, if we make the wrong jument de-- >> crlie: you'll be creating state that has the

potential to do that. sharon, a gater lder. >> charlie a man who grew and evolved in his ideasf publicolicy. >> no question b i dagreed with him when he ulaterally walk out of gaza. said all right this is a platform frowhich rockets will be fired. >>harlie: you wanted to negoate and create a way to prent that from happeng. >> unless we hadome arrangements. i said hamas would take over. i coined the term hamastan. iran essentially rocked inith its hamas proxy and they' packing a lot of missile we walked outf lebanon and iran wald in and the fired thousands of rocts into the north of israe the last thg we want is to walk away from the west bank or pieces of the west bank andave iran come i and place tusands re rkets on telaviv.

>> charl: there's recogne uss a jewh statend be militarized. >> dilitarization is the -- if yocan't defend the peace it's not going toold. >> charlie why did it take u a long time to ce to the id that a two state solutn was a good idea. why did it ta you that speech untithe president spoken cairo to go that far which u now point at something that was very difficu for me and it took a certain courage for me and it resonated with everybody >> it resonated the way i said it. >> charlie: right. >> iuthose basic stipulations that israelisgree with. i have not sd i wld go bk to the 67 boundaries. >> charlie: not specically, t some changes. >> i want jerulem as a united city under israel and i will not acpt refugees. >> charlie: are those nonnegotiable or like most negotiations, you ste tse are my princles, this is what i believin but let's talk and

se where we can get. >> look,hey'll raise tir positis and we'll rse ours and we'l differ i guarantee you. bui think the mos important thinyou asked is why diffilt raise it. well've been talkingabout this for quite some time. i said look the palestinian in a negligt settlement should have the power to gatr themselves except the handful o powershat could threaten israel. i've been sayinthis for years. >> charlie: this w the eech for th first tim and some say you had to respd to the president of the united states incairo had spon to the regn i a dratic way. >> you didn' sitn the inner cabinet discussionwe had well before the cairo speech. >> charlie: not because i wouldn't like t >> here's on i'll tellou what i sai i don't wan to tal about others but i saidthis. i sa this onther occasions too. i said loo what are we gng to do with palestinian we don't want them as citizens of israel but we don'twant them

our subjectsither. so we have to govern tmselves. aside from the territorial qution which is subjecto negotiations, why is it wouldn't want to govern emselves. the on answer the rl answer to that is we do want them to gove except for th problem of secuty. so is it possible to conceiv of arrangemts where this issue is taken caref. if y look around the world, you'll s various ideas of vereignty. economic sovereignty is an absolu in many places. it's not absolute. you know that. you kw there are intnational institutions. i an reading up on this a great deal and i don't want t bore you. first of all it has awful -- >> charlie: a lot of people have said that what the palestiniansould end up with der your conditions wod be far le sovereity than any nation. >> why does palestinn self

dermination require that they have rkets and missiles and artillery to threan us. why? i see no reason for that. it can move from great strength to great vulnerability over night. and you say ye but wllhave the pee agreement. ot of peace agreemes have been like this. >> crlie: what i say it's in ur best interest t build up the palestinian state so that they can be economic prosperity i'm just askg questions, i have no picy. >> that's refreshing change for som of the journalists that i know. >> charlie: all right. on this program prime minister of the palestini authority which a lot of peoe have

praised sd to mehe wants to build up the paltinian -- you buy into wha he's sayg. do you belve he's on the right tracand y believe that's possible. and doou s to him i'll do evything i can to help you achieve th goal. >> i've been ying it to him by my actns. we have aundamentalhange that the president alluded to in e speech of the un. well today. an i'll tell you, inhey build institutions a they have a

prospero economy and of course has security forces that deal with terroris w don't nee armies t deal with it, it' fairlytraightforward and simple. these things areood and these things are ings that we want to see happeni. because in fac what happened i it didn't happe in gaza, we left it ilaterally and overnight hama kicked out the pastinianuthority and established basically an iranian enclave there that'seen used. >> chaie: as you know, the palestinian thority have bee doing better >> sure. >> crlie: and ha shown some real progress. >> good. encourage it and we support it. >> charlie: ith respect to the president,you methe presiden president obama, before he beca president. and i wa to confirm this. youasically said to someby, this could be anoer president this couldbe a future president. >> i tell you, we had meetin

our rst meeting wasn washington nional airport in the airport in washington d i had come to visit t united states and he was on the campaign. it was early on in the campaign. >> charlie: youwere a private citizen th. >> i was head of the oppositio. the only place could meei think was in, i thi in a sort of a custodian's of or janitor's office. he came, he w only rning for e president of the united stateso he came with one peon. i, being the head of the great empire called israel, i had five aides. four of them has be born or spt a lot of time in the united states. we had the meeting. after the meeting, we parted. and i said i think thiis going to be th next president >> charlie: why did you say that. >> i'll ll y what m aides said. it's true you spent time in e united states but youeren't born here.

and you're wrong. these are my aides who are otherwise experts in great thin. why did say that. because i felt he had special capacities, great cacities that i thought would propel him where he t. >> charlie: ou quoted him as saying i come om the left of the center andou come from e right of the center and we're both practical and pragmatic men. >> he said people attribute, think that we carry a lot more ideologil baggage than we acally do. we have to the end of the day haveo come up with soluons to compl problems. i said i agreed >> charlie: y comerom an e lustrous familie >> it goes back a hdred years

>> charlie: wh a very strong sense of israel's destiny. >> just sited new york. i called h up the otherday and i said how are you dad. he said i can't talk to you now. that struck me as odd, he usually likes to talk to me. i saiwhy. he said i'm paing. i said why are you going. heaid i'm going to new york ty. i said whayou. >> charlie: you didn't know. >> n i didn't but he left tha nit and came back a week later. 's very active, he's writing. >> charlie: what does he have out israel and israel's destiny and about isra's pce and about what israelhad to do to build its tional security and build its opportunity. >> both my parents, mother and fatr had obviously very strong influence on me as did my

oldebrother. but 's not only on me. i mean what has shapedll us is thereat experiee of the jewish people in the 20th century. thisransformation fro utter poweessness whe we want a winoss lead. i wasn berlin the other day and i vised the villa where the nazimet in january of 1942 and decidein a few hours to destroy the jewish people. invitation reads, hitler's deputy, the head, you are cordlly invited to discuson on the final solion of the jewish people, you know, after breakfast. ey say breakfast will be served. and they ate breakfast, a hearty breakfast and ty discussed this for several hours. nobody batted an eye lash. they drank cognac and they decided to terminatehe jewish

pele, my people and they did. that was not contioned. and the state o israel w establisd to ange that conditn so that we can gove our destiny sohat we may still have anti-semitism a the raging fires ofred of e jewish people raging aund us but for the fst time in my ny centuries, the jews wld have the per to defend themselves, defend themselves in the form of the uted nations. that is against th taxhich i will do tomorrow and defend themselves physically. and y, that w impressed o me b my parents bebelieve , it was impressed on every jew in israel b their pents and their grandparents and t collecti experience of chging the plight of the jesh people much that's a profnd transformation which i'm deeply aware of that we live

in a privileged generatio where the js can once again decide the jewish fate. this has not been available for us for close to 2000ears. >> charlie sohat is the destiny israel? your father believed, your other believed an you lieve. >> it's tgather the exi'm iles in the jewh homeland and have a progressi advanced jewishtate. in soany areas, medicine and technology and everythg else at we're forging new -- yo scwd me w this is hard? because of the deep atthment we have to thi land. this is our meland, it's not a

foreignland. >> charlie: they don't view it that way. >> i undstand that. understa i recognize tha a million and-half palestinians live in the heart of the heartland of my homend. we have to come to a solution, practil solution that they c live in gnity as a freepeople and that we can do the same. the landin which they live is not atrangecolonial far away place. iean, i have a way to express at to people, you come into my office, th prime minister's office in jerusalem and i say look, he's a ptograph, a lae photograph a seal that was found next to thewestern wall in jerusalem a it's 270 years old. it h a namef the official on it. it's in brew, i can read it. and that name is netanyahu.

netanyahu, theon of -- my first name benjamin goes back earlier. 's about 3500 ars old. you know the storybout benjamin in the bible. they walke on these same hills. this is wher the pphets of israel, aiah, jeremiah, david, the kings of isel, david, solomon. this is not strge land. so th the one hd our awe -- attachment is very deep, prably deep as you c find -- well as deep as any naon. >> charlie: can you imagine the palestinians feel the same way. they feel the same depth, the passion an commitment to land, security and a place too. >> because of that, you ask me why it is hd. it's hd. so the question is how do you balance our ancestral attachment to this land. after all we came back, you know, out of -- we've done

someing no people have ever done. broken thelaws ofhistory. you come back out. is couldn't happen, the jews are a fossilized natio they can'tome back to fe, it will neve happen. well we're here, may be on the shelves but we're here, alive and ki. the main thingight now w want to establish ts peace th the palestinia hav thr own desires and thei own aspiratis. there has to b a compromise here. anwhile we'reilling to compromise and i think the israelis and zionists and the petition plan in948 which dividethe state,he land into jewish state and an arab state, we were ready to do that. we gave back the sinai, we got out of gaza. imade anarrangement, we ve shown a consistent willgness

to comprise even tugh it's ve painful fors to do it. and i'm asking n for the pastinians to come and say we're gng to compromis too. yes, israel, e jewish state will live re inhis land forever. it's not going to disappear, it's not going to dissolve. we're not going to find a way to get rid ofit andleverly drive the jews to the sea by demograp or any other means. can we say that becae we have consistently shown that willingness. and i want tm to show it. will abbas dot? wel fine out. >>harlie: you don't know whetheor not abbas will do it. >>he international community in many ways has pampered lestinians because they have not put that question to tm. >> and the question not to the to tm is are yo prepared to cognize. >> the jish state. israel as the nationtate of

the jews. >>harlie: correct if i'm wrg. you weren't taing about this ten year ago were you, the jewish state and the idea of a recognizing the jesh state. >> no. i thi because the more i thought about it, i sai what is the problem here. everybodyocuses on the queson of the tertories tany israel in 1967. but that's the result ofthe arab gression against us. it's not its cause what has happened is a subtle transformati that results of the x against israel has been turned into thr cause. every time we vacated territory in gaza it conties inny size and anyoundary. i thought we should get to the heart of ts issue. k the palestinians, ts sile question.

rce them to confront thr own -- it's a fantasy that somehow israel wl disappear, it will shrivel and dissolvand disappear. >> charlie: i dot think that is the desire of most palestinians. yes, there are elements in the population -- there are also elements in your communy who believe th in an idea of a greater israel in which there no resct for palestinis. >> that's righ >> charlie: the are extreme thoughts in palesnian side and israeli side. the question is what does the government d what does the leaderip do. i ke your point. maybe the righthing to say is not the m -- palestian is broken one si works to desoy and the other si says we will recognize the jewish state of israel and live acefully. then there's the sort o mdle ground and the mile grod

enmpasses not all but some of the politil leaderipnd they he to be aed to do what the world has been asking us. and me to do. confront th question head on and say is it going to be over. will the establishment of a palestinian ste, a demilitarized state, wl it be the last demand. will you ma a permanent peace. will you cease tomake demands on other partsf israel or on the arab citizens of israel becoming whatever, sarate ate and so on. many people feel and have questions out it. when they talk out a two ste solutionthey say one state is palestinn, that's for the pal steez, no jews arellowed there. the it's sort of jew free. you can't consave of the paleinians having jews living among them. they have to cleansed. d then you have the other state whi is a mixed ste of

jews and arabs. buthe arabs are going to be incrsed because palestinian refugees will be sweeping into thcountries according to the so-cled right of return. plus there will be demands on the shrunk and shriveled isel. in other words they say, what do they say, they say it's two stat but not t peoples. one is fuy for the palestinns and one is split but entually ll taken over demograpcally by the pastinians. and yo know, sometim you have to calit like it is anday let's not going to happen. it's justotoing to hpen. we want real peace, permanent peace, a defensible peace. but apeace above all ich the palestinian leadership, not me, palestinian leadersh say to their o people, that is not going to happen. that mdle grnd has to disaear. that middle ound hasto be taken up by courageous leaders to dowhat sadat did, t

egyptian people, t way king hussein did to peoe of jordan, there has to be thakind of leadership on the paltinian si. i'm glad i this have the abity to bring it into the peace procs. >> charlie: y're willing to walk the last mile >> that's a curious way to put it. >> charlie: why. >> it has the idea -- >> crlie: of death >> no, it has the idea of mile. >> charlie: of a roadmap peaps. let me just y with thi idea beuse i think we're on to something important which is where the struggle you have in your own bei on the oneand, you don't wanto ke chces because you don't believe there will be reciprocity. i mean, we're living here wh is issue and this problem and this cflict that has been with usecause people are afraid to

take a chance for better place cause they don'trust the otheguy. my question,ow do you get past that kind mistrust. that's what political leaders are about. that's what, that's what gin was about and he paid a terrible price. >> without a doubt >> charlie: thas what he was about. >> i think it's a little more complicated an that and i'l tell y why. becae i think that the great german philosopher kant was right because he said the observation leaderhave to make is that there are two kinds of peace in t world. ere's mostith democracies and peace with dictatorships. the demonstre sees don't want to go to war but dictatorships

don't have that limitation. the only wayo stop t dictatorrom going to war is ve a forcedransgression if itfails. the greatestatastrophe in histy, the greatest tragedy in the history ofy people a the history of torld occurred when leaders o democracies failed to diinguish what ki of peace to have. >> charlie: what ki of peace was achievable. >> they practiced the peace of democracies proposes the great dictatorship of alltimes nazi germany. they learned a lesson they acticed with pce of deterrence. what kind of entity do w have on the otheride of the fence. ife get a dictator type like the anian sponsored diatorship. >> charlie: you're surrounded by diatorship. >> autritarian government. >> charlie: you're surunded byhem. >> but we have arrangements, authoritarian governments. >> charlie: and youave most wi them.

>> some ofthem have very coureous leaders but we have to nonheless, we have security arrangements with those regimes and the question ishat ife make aeace and vacate territorto the palestinians and all of a sudden we wake up e next day and we find iran's henchmen there. these exactlyhat happened. 've had rockets falling oour heads as a result of that. so when you say the palestinians are building the cil siety, they'reuilding institutions of governance. >> charlie: you're sang that's the same thing. that's very impornt because it will decide wha kind o peace we canhave. but in theong run, inhe foreseble future israel will need to he or mt have t ability to defd itself because of the posbility of change,

undesirable change andthe territors adjacento us. do younow at adjacent to us ans sitting in the heart new yor city. skip jfk airrt. at laguard airport you already have the other side of isrl so 's a tiny country. so we have to make sure -- charlie: that's the burden to live with butou live with that burden but youlso live with the burden of history. and that cuts bh ways. at you have an opportunity to take risks that may possibly create lestinian state that's able to live and remo the fe at citizens have lived with since 48. yohave the possibility. >>ell charlie, let me tell you, it's my fondest dream and i think it requires, it will reire a courageous partne on the palestinias side as well. anit will require staying t

hand of iran. at is using every power available to it, to undermine the most and to advance terror not oy from a distance but close. >> charlie: and they sa puicly too. this is t something they're saying in private. >> that's true. >> charlie: so how long is your winw before weapons are within rch and you say we've given u the united states an 've aske you to find through negotiation or sanctions or something else, a means of stoppi iran from having that. i don't thinkou can dire that question to me. it represents an enormous dang to the mdleast and to the world. this is the prier sponsoring. >> charlie: there is no state i havealked to in the region that wants to see iran have

nuclear weapons. none. >>xactly. >> charl: why did y go to russia? >> i don't confirm. >> charlie: do you thinthe russia are going to help on you this? >> well, i've spoken about this issue th allorld leaders and i thin that 's important that everne understandhat iran with nlear weapons is a danger to u all. n you imagine, can you igine an that splies terrorists th rockets and many many other things. it would give them a nuclear umbrel or worse or worse actually gave them nuclear weapon >> charlie: t iranian government is at a weaker point than i was before the elecon, coect. what opportuny does that offer? >> ihink this rime is a t aker than people think.

overwhelming the iranian people have shown remarkable courage. they tested. th stood up for freedom and truly insrational courage. if you have essures, significant economic prsures on this regime, particularly the implicatioof gasoline, this could make t regime, mht force the regi to choose whether or not itantsto advance the nuear program or risk itswn liability. it's not bee put to that test and i thinkthere's a sayin about the elders, one of the great sages, if n now when. so i say echog him, if not now whenre you going to apply those sanctions. the time too that is now. and i don't believe that the

iranian people will coalce arou a regime that detests. thepposite willhappen. theyl applaud this pressure because they want to be relieved from thi medieval regim this violent theocracy that is oppressing tm and threatening everyone else. i think you know from your visits in the region that every just about eryarab leader will applaud. and so many, so many others around -- >> chaie: will appla what >> theffective imposition of sanctions on iran. i think time is srt and there's a lotf work to do. >> charli mr. prime nister, thank you veryuch for tang time for thi conversation. it's been a busy day for you. thk you for giving us thi time. >> thank y charlie. >> chaie: this interview was recorded on wednesday. the prime minister o thursday as we broadcast this will have livered his speech to the

uned nations, the speech that we showed yoexcerpts from earlier. thank you for joini us, see you next time. captioning sponsored by se communications ptioned by dia access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org