charlie: welcome to t broadcas tonight. the prime minister of israel, benjaminetanyahu. >> ovehelming the people show remaable courage. th're tested. they stood up for freedom, truy inspirational courage. if y have pressures significant economic pressures on thisregime, particularly the implation of gasoline, this could make the regime, might force the regime to choose or to withstand viility.

it's not bn put to that test and think there's saying bit, one of the grea sagesof jewish history, if t now when. so i sa echoing hi if not now when are u gng to apply those cryptic sanctions. the time to do that is now. i asked the palestinians a very simp question. suppose we solve these problems, borders,erritories. will you then every o of them, i want to know a simple question, will y recognize the state of israel, jews have been divided when they conducted a war against us for 50 years. will you recognize the state of israel as the nion ste of the jewish people. you ask me and my people to recognizethe palestinian ste the palestinian state of the people, would yo recognize israel as the nation state of

the jewishpeople and theanswer ough to be very sile. s. >> charlie: the prime minister of israelor the hour, next captioning sponsored by rose communicaons from our sdios in new york citythis is charlie rose. >> charlie: we begin th evening with therime minister ofsrael, benjamin netanyahu, he is in new york attendg the united nations general aembly

eting. i spoke toim yesterday at his tel about his perspective on the middle east. today, he addressed the united nations neral assembliment here is some of what he said. i sat here today as the prime minister of israel, the jewish state. d i speak to you onehalf of my country and my peopl th united natns was founded aftethe carnage of world war ii, after the horrors of the holoust. it was charged with preveing the reoccurrence of such on te horrendous events. yesterday the president ofran stoodt thisery podium,

spewing hisatest anti-metic rants. just a few ys earlier he ain claimed that the holocaust is a lie. i'm proud that country rael is the refront of many of these advances, science and technogy and medicine and biology and agriculture and water and eney and the environment. these novations and my country and my of your countries offer manity mutual of unimagined promise. but if the most fanatism can acire the most deadl weapons, the rch ofistory could be

reversed for a time. and like t belated victory over the nazis will prevail after blood and fortu has been exacted from mankind. this is why the greatest threat facing the world today is the marriage betweeneligious fundamentalism a the weapo of mass dtruction. e most urgt challenge facg is bod today is to prevent the tants of tean from acquiring nuclear weapons. are the members ofnited nation up to that challen. ll the inteational community confnt a despotism that terrorists its own people as they brave stand up for freem. will itake action against the dictats who stole a election inroad ylight and then

nned down iranian protesters who ed in theidewalks on the street choking in their own blood with the intercommunity ward the world's more rinitiate sponsor d practical sioner of terrorism. abov all will the ternational commity stop the terrorists regime of iranrom develong atic weapo. thery endangering the peace of th entire world the peop of iran are courageously standg upo is regime as do thousandses of people who he bn protesting and demotrating outside this hall all of this week. will the united natns sta by their side. well ladies and gentlemen, e

jury's sll out on th united nations. >> crlie: and here's a conversation that i had with the primminister yesterday at his hotel here in n york. first all thank you, mr. prime minister for seein us. >> it's been a lontime. i don't want toay how long. charlie: you've en out of power. do yousee israelissues, israeli palestinian issues, israeli arab ises different, hang spent ten years ay. >> sure. i see everything different. how? you get oldergreater. probably i'd like think wiser. and u think about what it is that you can do to make a lasting impact, difference. and youknow, it takes at least two toango in this particul dance. bu if we see a palestian leadship that is as committed

to peace as the late anwar sadat did --e're waiting for real peace partner. >> waiting to do what? >> make peace and peace mns have you to have a basic reprocity. and the question iseally at is the sic problem. peop think it's territories. these are all problems thatave to be resved. fr the 19 20's. we left every squarench of gaza and sll they fire rockets into whatthey say is occupd

paleine. ey shared it and s on from the nor and the south. so i asked the palestinians ve simple question. suppose we solve thesproblems, boers, territories, will you th every onef these, wanted to know aimple question. will you recognize thetate of israel. jewsere divided and they conducted a war against for 50 years. will you recognize the stat of israel as the nati state o the wish people. you ask me and my people to recognizthe palestinian state as the sta of the palestinian people, will you recogze israel as e nation stateof e jewish people. and the answer ought tobe very simple. ye >> charlie: younow the reasonab they don't do at. >> why do you think thedon't do that, if i can switch roles foa moment. >> charlie: i would think demographics and who you would define as eligible and thgs ke that. >> i think it's t thateason.

i thi that the palestinian society isot forgiving. on the other side are has and the other ereme groups that openly say we want to desoy e state of isrl. th fire thousands of rock intes our territory and make no bones about it. on t otr side are more moderate facti. they say well we're not espousinterror, we're doing other things but they don't ally say it'sover. they don't sayell we'll get the state and we cease the conflict, ase all claims agnst israel,e make a permanent peac with e jewish state. because f many of them, there is a subtext and the subtext is weget a state not to end t conflict but toerpetuate the colict with better terms. and th flood th with th refugees and offspng and

thattal fies israel as a jewish state. i salook i want to join this issue becau this is where the guts, t soul of israeli people is. evybody wants to make peace. there's a desire, aunger for piece that isantastic. but thsame -- >> charl: the well of the raeli people and the wil of the lestinian people. >> i think this is an intereingistic. 70 to 80 of the israelis say they'll make conssion to a peacand there's 80% say there'no one to make concession too. ey want an answer. they want t kw that the pastinian side will cease the conflict once we have a peace agreement. that the state will not be a skateboard for future attacks. so when put forwd this queson of recognizing a jewis state, not the religious sense, obviouslyt's a nation state of the jisheople and

there are n-jews there. the arabs, israelis ar citizens like everyone else. they participaten the government and so on they have equ rights. it's not aquestion. t the rugees, the palestinian revenues go to the palestinian states. justs the jewishefugees from arab lands go into israel and therare no more claims. and i think thisis a bstantive point. this is e heart of the conflict. this conflict has been perpetuated r so many duke -- my latest speech, i wasn't eas fome. an i said we'll recognize a palestinian stat but we aske do the palestinians recognize the jewish state. which ought to be a fairly simple exerci. and think that's what they're grapplg with. >> charl: what do you think their problem with t words jewish state is? >> i think it means the end of

any claims on israel, on the negati or the galilee where youhave a sizeable minority. i thk that also means th there won't be this inflood of refuge palestinian refugees. whatever happens israeas a jewish state ceases to exist. it oht to be mple to say a hured years after, me than a hundredyears after hertzel published s great manifesto, the jewish state and after president obama today -- yesterday i suppose it would be in your time, said w need t recognize the jewish state. we rognize the jewish stat it ought to be afairlyimple ercise from the palestinian ma toe. it's not hamas to say that. >> crlie: was that lanage u urged the president us >> i've been speaking about it

for a time. it's not the predent of the united stes who hasto be urged, it's theresident of the palestinian authority. i thin mr. abbas has to decide is he underur court o hsein or anwar sat, on the side of these tw great leaders wh std up d said it's ov. or is he wobing. >> crlie: fair enough. what do you ve to decide? what kind of leader areou? are you aegin. >> anyime. >> charlie what about ariel sharon. >> that's laterall-- >> charlie: ectly because it ought to be negotted. because yoought to t something from i >> because h want stable peace

on the other de of the fence. you don't want another has, another iranian se on the territory yo vacate. sohere's really two cditions for pce, not for starting peace goacialsz, i place no pre condions on it but i think t real clear terms for ccessful resoluti is the negotiations once started. one is recogniti. the pal steenlz have to recognize the jewish ate just as we aed and ar prepared to recogne the palestinian state. what kind of a leader am i? i'm the one, the leader who stoo before his own people, his own party andaid that just a few months ago. >> charlie: i know but -- >> secd it has to be a militarized lestinian state. can't be a platform for additional,for thousandsf rocketthat are tn rained on r heads. d signing a piece of paper by itself doesn't guantee that. it has be sid solid. >> charlie: and israel h to control the borders you sa. d are ai space, israel will

control the air spa too. there are many paltinians and othe beyond that who say that the state you propose for them was hardly a state. >> why is thout. >> charlie: bause they wouldn't cell the air space, they wldn't control the borders, they wod not have had -- they had tobe totay delitarized. israels strong both in terms on of of military and id. and. >> we are strong. >> charlie: ectly. >> we can move great rength to extreme vulnerility in a heart beat. is is our problem, do you kno what, bausewe're so small. w if you're amall country like monaco -- just take a countr like belgiumr luxembourg, who ar surrounding

by neighbors who not only call for -- destction but thro 12,000 rockets into that ty country,ou'd think we have real problems. now these rockets, 10,000, 12,000 rocts falling on the united ates that is coressed to thesize of new jsey. that would makeyou think. >> charlie: no leadewould want that to happen. no leader wl stand by while that's happening, ne. on the other hand -- >> what would happe >> charlie: wl that's an interestinquestion. how do you de fi your curity and how you g to the place where you are more secure in your strength an you are even toda and th is helping to see a strong palestinian enty. and y agree wit that. >> yes, i do. >> chaie: you agree wit th and you're tryingo do something about that. >> not only are weoing it, i thinthat involves a third l. mean, peace stands on three legs. one is recognition, which is realnother word for

legimacy. >> charlie the arab nations are alprepared when you talk aboutthe palestinians, allarab nationsre prepared to cognize. >> presint obama said somethinquite significant today. he said, a i think he was alluding to this. this is my interpration but i think 's a frly accurate one. he said to the arab world, you know, it's time to speak out in the op, what you say privately. we have a common thread, iran and we have a common dere. you can't just whisper it in the corridors, you know, quily. you co out and act on it d normalize the relations with israel. so number one,egitimacy. numberwo, security. number three, and this is what you were askin prosperity. i think it makes a tremendous difference with young palestinians t have jobs. charlie: hope.

>> hope. as you driven the rode, one closer to the palestinian area. u drive om tel aviv jerusalem. on you left you see romalo. you see sprouting from the groundot rockets but gleaming apartment ildings and fice blocks, that has a tremendous, makes a tremendous differenc what palestinians, and charl itakes a tremendous fference to the israelis because ey believ something se is ssible. for the last six months, wead talks a unilaterally, is my decisio >> charlie: theast six months of no talks. >> w removed hundreds -- unilaterally, huneds of road ocks, che points. we had 147 checkoints. we reduced it to 14. they work around the clock. i wento the jordan river bridge connecting theest bank to theest of therab world and iaid we'll extend theime for passage onhis brink. i want goods, service people, trucks to pass back a forth to

the west bank economy. people said we can'to it, mister, we don't havehe budget i said u have the budget, just do it. 've extended times on the bridge, we're deali with. i personally chaired a committee to ulog all sor of bureaucratic hurdle i checkedewage, ectricity. want to know why these projectsre not bein moved by our sidement if ther are impediments on the side that's a different matter that's whai do because i believe in this. i believehat process interrity helps peace. we used to thk that peaceill bring osperity i think it's e other wa around or at least creates the condition for the politil process to succeed. i think there's sothing diffent going in the wes bank >> charlie: you'reeginning to sound le --

>> what's ong with tt. >> charlie: that' a central idea he'articulated f a long time. here another question about the litics. how muchreedom do you have. you talk aboutaying you want a ben, you got a budget, youeed pele to do this, we're going to withdraw. i'm the prime minier, i'm going to take thishance. but hers worry about this collatn you have. and they wry about how much moveability you have t dohe things that you may very well wa to because you had to put together pple whoight have a differen idea about israel's securi, israel's destiny. and the way to get there. and also about the plight of pastinians, i think there's actually a much bigger consensus in israel which i ied to express a speech i gave, and i was amazed at the response, amazed. >> crlie: amazing in what way becauseof what you said. >> because i said that what w

really need is the peace wit palestinians wou consist of a militarized state that includ a jewish stat the resnse was overwhelming. t across the right and the lefti'm not talking abouthe extreme fringewill never be satisfied. i think this expresses the yearng for piece andlsohe basic two conditions recognition a security that israelis would call us. andsraelis are very generous people, they believe the's a sadaton the other side, a ng hussein on the other side. an ihope that we eounter such ldership. t you asked what d i lrn. i learned twohings. one isnity. wh is the biggest mistake you made asrime minister.

>> charlie: good questi. >> i believe maybe u ask me. the biggist mistake waset's join hands and form a government r the purse of peace and security. we, i didn't jus say it at's exactly what iid know. i turned t barak who was head of t laborarty and said that'soin hands for peace and security. israel makes peac only from the sition where the great body of peoplere convinced that they' have securit and they'll havethe other side that recognizeshe state of isrl. >> charlie: tt includes your foreigninister. you woul say the same thingto him. >> i say t same ing to everyone. charlie: does he respond in the same way. that's a questionith two very different views of the destiny of israel. >> i they wantroof. they allant proof. they're all willing to go a great distance but they want to be sure. the rgins of r existce are so fragile. understand what it means to g

dons or thousands. they don't just rain on our polations, on our citie that's bad enough. none's been subjeed to this. >>harlie: none denies that either. >> the point charlie, i we miss out, most of therockets, 95% of the rockets hurled agait iael are hurl from the adjacen territories, nearby territories. and they hurled at our cities which isan unbelve problem but n alsoe hled at our air bases at critical installations for defense. so if we blo it, if we make t wronjudgment de-- charlie: you'll be creang a state hat has t potential to that.

>> sharon, a greater leader. >> chaie: a man w grew and evolved in his ideas of puic policy. >> no question but i disagreed with him when he unilaterally lked out of gaza. i said all right this is a platformrom which rockets will be fired. >> crlie: you wanted to negotie and create a way to prevthat from happenin >> unlesse had se arrangements. i said hamas wouldake over. i coinedhe term hamastan. an essentially rocked in wh s hamas proxy and they're packing a lot of missiles. we walked out o lebanon and iran walke in and they fired thousands of rocke into the north of israel. the last thin we want is to walk away from the west bankr piecesf the west bank and he iran come in and place thousands more rocts on tel iv.

>> charlie there's recogniz us a a jewis state a be demilitarized. demilitarization is the -- if you can't defend the pce it's not going to hold. >> chaie: why did it take you a long time to come tohe idea that a two state sution was a good ide why did ittake you tt speech til the president ske in cairo to go tha far whi you now point at something tt was very difficultor me and it took a certain courage for me and it resonated with everybody. >> it resonated the way i said it. >> charlie: right. >> i p tse basic ipulations that israelis aee with. i have not sai i wou go bac tothe 67 boundaries. >> charlie: not specifilly, busome changes. >> i want jerusam as a united city under israel and i willot accept refugees. >> charlie: are those nonnegotiable or le most negotiations, you sta the are my princips, this is what i believe but let's talk and seeheree canet.

>> look, ty'll raise the position and we'll rai ours and we'll differ i guarantee you. but think the most important thing u asked is why difficu raise it. well ie been talking out this for quite some time. i said look the palestinians in a negligen settlement should have the power to gathe themselves except the handful of powers tt could threaten israel. i've been saying is for years. >> charlie: this was the spch for the first timeand some say you had to responto the president of t unite statesin cairo hadpoken to theegion in aramatic y. >> you didn't sit i the inner cabinet discusons we had well before the cairo speh. >> charlie: n because i wouldn't like to. >> here'one, i'll tell you what iaid. i don'tant toalk about others but i said this. said this on other occasions too. i saidook, what are we going too with palestians. we don want them as citizens of israel but we don't want them as our subjects either.

so we have to govern themselves. aside from the territorial question which is subject to negotiations, why is it we wouldn't want to govern themselves. thonly answer the real answer to that is we do want them to vern except forthe problem o curity. so is possible to conive of arraements where ts issue is taken re of. you lk around the world, you' see various ideas of sovereignty. economic sovereigntys an ablute in many places. it's not absolute. you know that. yo know there arenternational institutions i an reading upn this a great deal and i don't want to bore you. first of all it has awful -- >> charlie: a lot of people have said thathat the palestinians wld end up with unr your conditions woul be far less sovereign than any nation. >> why does palestiniaself deteination require that they

have rocts and missilesand artillery to threate us. why? i see no reason forhat. it can move from great strength to great vulnerability over night. and you say yes but we' ve the peac agreement. a lot of peace agrments have been like this. charlie: what i sa it's in your best interest to build up the palestinian state so that they can be economic prospety. i'm justsking questions, i have no policy. >> thas a refreshing change for somef the journaliststhat i know. >> charlie: allight. on this program prime minister of the palestinianuthority which a lot of peoplhave praised sai to me wants to

build up the palesnian -- you buy into what he's sayin do you belie he's on the right track d you believe that's possible. and do y say to him i'll do everhing i can to help you achieve thatoal. >> i've been sang it to him by my actio. we have a fdamental cnge at the president alluded to in th speech of the un. well today. and i'll tellou, in ty build institutions and they have a

prosperousconomynd of course has security forceshat deal with terrorism, we don't need armies to deal with it, it's fairly saightforward and simple. these things are gd and these things are thgs that we want to see happening because in fact what happened is it didn't happen in gaza, we left it unaterally and overnight hamasicked out the paleinian ahority and establishedasically anranian enclave there that's bn used. >> charl: asou know, the palestinian auority have been doing better. >> sure. >> chaie: and have shown some real progres >> good. we encourage it ande support it. >> charl: with respect to epresident, u met t president,resident obama, before he becameresident. and i want toonfirm this. u bically said to somebod this could be anoth president -- this could a ture president. i tell you, we had a meeting,

our fit meeting was i washington natnal airport in e airport in washington dc. i had come to visit thenited states and he was on the campaign. it was early onn the campaign. charlie: you re a private citizen then >> i was ead of the opposition. the only place we could meet think was in a i thinkn sort of custodian's of or janitor's office. he came, he was only runng for thpresident of the united states she came with one pers. i, being the head of the great empire called israel, i had five aides. four of them has been born or spena lot of time in the united states. we had theeeting. after the meeting,we parted. and i said i think this going to be the next president. >> charlie: why did youay that. >> i'll te you what my aides said. 's true you spent time in th united states but you wen't born here. andyou're wrong.

these are my aides who are otherwise expertsn great things why did i say that. because i felt he hadspecial capacities, great capities that i thought would propel him where he go >> charlie: y quoted him as saying i come fr the left of the center and y come from th ght of thecenter and we're both practical and pragmatic men. >> he said people attribute, think that we carry a lot more ideologicabaggage than we actuly do. we have to thend o the d ve to com up wit lutions to cplex probls. i sa i aged. >> charlie: you come fm an e lustrous families. >> it goes back a huned years.

>> charlie: wit a very strong sense of israel's stiny. >> just vited new york. i called himp the other y and i said how are you dad. he said i can't talk to you now. that struck me as odd, he usually likes to talk to me. i said y. he said i'm packg. i said why are you going. he sd i'm going to new york ci. i said what u. >> charlie: you didn't know. >> no, i didn't but he left that nigh and came back aweek later. he veryctive, he's writing. >> charlie: what does he have abt israel and israel's destinyand about israel pla and about what israel d to do to build its naonal security and build s opportuni. >> both my parents, my mother andather had obviously very strong influen on s did my

der brother. t it's not onl on me. i mean wt has shed all of us is the great expience of the jewish people in the 20th centy. this transformationrom utter powerlessneswhere we wt a win toss lead. i was in bern the other day andisited the villa where the zis met in january of 1942 and deded in a few hours to destro the jewish people. invitation reads, hitler's deputy, the head,ou are rdially invited to a diussion on the finalolution of the jewish people, you know, after breakfast. they say breakfast will be served. and they ate breakfast, a hearty breakfast an they discussed this for several hours nobody batted an eye lash. ey drank cognac an they decided to terminate the jewish pele, people and they did.

that was notonditioned. and the stat of israel was estaished to change that coition so thatwe can vern our destiny so that we may still have anti-semitism and the raging fires of hatred of the jewish people ragi around us but for th first time in many many centuries, the jews would have the power to defend themselves, defend themselves in the form of the united nations. that is againstthe tax which i will do tomorrow and dend themselves physically. and yes, that was impressed on by my parents bebelieve me, it was impressed on ever jew in israel by their parents and their grandparents and the colltive experience of changing the plight of the jewish people much that's a ofound transformation which i'm deeply aware of thatwe live in a privileged generion.

where the jews can once again decide the jewish fate. this has not been availae for us r close to 00 years. >> chaie: so what is the destiny of israel? ur father believed, your brher believed and you beeve. >> it's to ther the exi'm -- exes in the jewis homeland and have a progressivedvanced jewish ste. in so my areas, medicine and technology and everythin else th we're forging new -- you scwd me why this is so hard? because of the deep attacent we have to this land. this is our holand, it's not a foreignland. charlie: they don't view

it that way. >> i underand that. understand recognize that a million and-a-lf palestinians live in the heart of the heartland of my homela. we have to come to solution, a practicasolution that they can live in diity as a free ople and that we can do the same. the land which they live is not a sange lonial far away place. i mn, i have a way to express th to people, you come into my office, the prime minister's office in jerusalem and i say look, hers a phograph, a larg photograph of a seal that was found next to the stern wall in jerusalem and it's 2700 years old. it has a name o the official on . it's in heew, i can read it. and that name is netanyahu.

netanyahu, the s of -- my first name benjamin goes back earlier. it about 3500 yes old. you know the story aut benjamin in the bible. they walked on these same hills. this is wherehe proets of israel, isah, jeremiah, david, the kings of isra, david, solomon. this is not stran land. so wi the one han our awe -- attachment is very deep, probly deep as you can find -- well as deep as any nati. >> charlie: can you imagine the palestinians feel theame way. they feel the same depth, the passion and commitment to land, security and a place too. >> because of that, you ask me why it is har it's har so the question is how doou balance our ancestral attachment to this land. after all we came back, you know, out of -- we've done

somethg no people have ever done. broken the ws of story. u come back out. th couldn't happen, the jews are a fossilized nation, they can't ce back to li,till neverappen. well we're here, mayen the shelves but we're here, alive and kick the main thing rht now is we nt to establish thi peace wi the palestinians have theiown desires and theirwn aspiration there has to be a compromise here. and ile we're wling to compromise and i thinkthe israelis andionists and the petition plan in 18 which divided e state, t land into jewish state and anarab state, we were ready to dohat. we gave back theinai, we got out of gaza. i de an rangement, we ha shown a consistent williness to comprome even thoh it's

veryainful for u to do it. d i'm asking now for the paleinians to come and say we're goi to compromise too. yes, israel, th jewish state will live he in ts land forever. it's not going to disappear, it's not goingo dissolve. we're not goingo find aay to get rid of and cverly drive e jews to the sea by demography or any other means. can we say that becaus we have consistently shown that willingness. and i want the to show it. will abbas do i we'lfine out. >> crlie: you don't know whether not abbas will do it. >> t international community in many ways has pampered pastinians because they have not put that question to the >> and the question noto the to theis are you prepared to regnize. >> the jewh state. israel as the nation ste of the jews.

>> crlie: correct me ifi'm wron you weren't talkg about this ten ars ago we you, the jewish state and the idea of recognizing thejewish state. >> no. ihink because the more i thought about it, aid what is the problem here. everybody focuses on the estion of theerritories taken by israeln 1967. but that's t result of the arab aggression against us. it's not its cse. what has happed is subtle transfortion that results of e tax against israel has been turned inttheir cause. every time we vacated territory in gaza it ctinues in any size and any boundary. i thought we should get the heart this issue. ask the palestinian this simple question. force them to confronttheir

own -- it's a fantasy that somehow isra will disappear, it will shrivelnd dislve and disappea >> charlie: idon't think that is the dere of mo palestinia. yes, therere elements in the population -- there are also elements in your counity who believthat in an idea of a greater israel in whic the is noespect for palesnians. >> that's ght. >> charlie: therere extreme thoughts in pestinian se and israeli side. >> the question is what does the governme do, what does the leership do. i take your point. maybe the ght thing to say is not the mal -- paltinian is bren. onside works toestroy and the otherside says we wl recogne the jewish state of israel and le peacefully. then there's the sort of middle grou and themiddleround encompasses not all but some of

the potical leership and th have to be asked to do what the world has been asking us. and me t do. confrontthis question head on and say is it going tobe over. will t establishnt of a palestiniastate, a demilitarized stat will it be e last demand. will youmake a permanent peace. will you cease t make demands on other pts of israel or on the arab citizens of israel becoming whater, a separate state and so on. many peoe feelnd have questis about it. when the talk about a two state soluon, they say one state is paleinian, that's for the pa eenlz, no jews ar allowed there. the it's sor of jew free. you can't consave of the lestinians having jews living among th. they have to be cleansed. and thenou have the other statehich is a mixed state of jews and arabs.

but the arabs are going to be creased because palestinian refugees will be sweeping into the countries according to the -called right of return. plus there will be deman on the shrunk and shriveleisrael. in other words they s, what do they say, they say it's tw ates but not two peopl. onisfully for the paleinians and one is split but eventually will be taken over demoaphically by the palestinians. anyou know, somimes you hav toall it like it is and say let's not going to happen. it's just not going to happen. we want real peace, permanent peace, a defensib peace. but a peace above all in which th palestinian leadership, not me, palestinian leadship say to the own people, that is not going to happe that middleground has t sappear. that mide ground has to be taken up by courageous leaders do what sadat did, the

egyptian peopl the way king hussein did toeople of jordan, there has toehat kind of leadership o thealestinian side. i'm glad i this have thebility to bringt into the peace ocess. >> charlie you're willing to walk the last le. >> that's a curious y to put it >> charlie: why >> it has the idea- >> charlie: of dth. >> no, it has the ideaof mile. >> charlie of a roadmap perhaps. let me jt say withhis idea because i think we're on to something important wch is where the struggle you have in your owneing on the e hand, you don't want to takechances because you don't believe there will be reciprocity. iean, we're living here wit th issue and this problem and this conict that has been with us bause people are afraid to take a chance for better place

beuse they don't tst the other y. my question, h do you get past that kind of mistrust. that's whatpolitical leaders arebout. that's what, that's what ben s about and he paid a terrible price. >> without a doubt. >> charlie: that'what he was about. i think it's a little more complicated th that and i'll tell you why. becausi think that t great german philosopher kant was right because heaid the servation leaders ve to make is that there are two kinds of peace in the world. the's most wh democracies andeaceith dictatorships. the demonstratsees don't want to go to war but dictatorships n't have that limitation. the only way t stop the

dictator fm going to war is ha a forced tnsgression if it ils. the greatest castrophe in histor the greatest tragedy in the history of m people and the history of the wld occurred when leaders of democracies failed todistinguish whatkind of peace to have. >> charlie: whakindf peace was achievable. >> they practiced th peace of democracies propos the gater dictatorip of all times nazi germany. th learned a lesson they practiced with peace of deterrence. what kind of entity do we have on the other side of the fence. if we get aictator type like the iriansponsored dictorship. >> charlie: you're surrounded by dictorship. >> authotarian government. >> charlie: you're surroded by tm. >> but we have arrangements, thoritarian governments. >> charlie: and you he most withhem. >> some of em have very

couragus leaders but we have to nonetless, we have security arrangements with those regimes and the questionis wt if w make a pce and vacate territory the palestinians and all of asudden we wake up thnext day and we find iran's henchmen there. these exactly wt happened. wee had rockets falling on r heads as a resultf that. so when you say the palestinians are building the civ socty, they're building institutions of governance. >> charlie: you'rsaying that's the same thing. >> that's very iortant because it will decidehat ki of peace we can have. but in the long n, in the foseeable future israel will need to have or must hav the ability toefend itself because of the possility of change,

undesirable changend e territories adjacent tus. do you kw wh adjacent to us mes sitting in the heart of new york city. skip jfk airpo. at laguardiairport you already have the other side ofsrael so it's a tiny country so we have to make sure -- >> charlie: that's the burden to live with b you live wi that burden but yo also live withhe burden of history. an that cuts both ways. that you he an opportuty to take risks tt m possibly create palestinian state thas able to live and move the fear th citizens have lived with since 48. you ve thepossibility. >> wl charlie, let me tell you, it's my fondest dream and i think it requires,it will reque a courageous partner on e palestinian'side as well. and will require staying the hand of iran.

th is using every power available to it, to undermine the most and todvance terror not onl from distance but close. >> charlie: and they say publly too. this is no something they're saying in private. >> that's true. >> charlie: so how long is your windo before weapons are within rea and you say we've given yothe united states and wee asked you to find through negotiation or sanctions or something else, a means of stopping iran from having that. >> don't think y can direct that question toe. it represents an enormous danger to the mide et and to the world. this is the premr sponsoring. charlie: there is no state i have tked to in the region that wants to see iran have

nuclear weapons. none. >> ectly. >> charlie why did you go to russia? >> i don't confirm. >> charlie: do you think e russiansre going to help on you this? >> well, i've spoken about this issue wi all wld leaders and i think that it important that everyo understand tt iran with nucar weapons is a danger to us all. caou imagine, can you imane ir that supies terrorists wiockets and many many other things. wouldivehem auclear umbrella or worse or worse, actually gave them nuclear weapons. >> charlie: the iranian government is at a weaker point than it was beforehe ection, correct. what oppounity does that offer? i think this regime is a lot weaker than people think.

overwhelngly the iranian people have shown remarkable courage. they tested. they sod up for freedom and trulynspirational courage. if you have pressures, significant economicpressures on this regime, particularly the implicion of gasoline, this could make the regime, might force the gime to choose whether o not it wants to advance thenuclear program or risk i own liability. it's noteen put to tha test and i think there's a sing about th elders,ne of the great sages, i not now when. so i say hoing him, if not now en are you going to apply those sanctions. the time to do that is now. and i don't believe that the

iranian people will alesce ound a regime tt detests. the opposite will happen. ey'll applaud this pressure because they wa to be relieved fromhis mediev rime, this violent theocracy that is oppressi them and threatenin everyone else. i think you know from your visits in the region that every just about every arab leader ll applaud. and so many, so many others around -- >>harlie: will alaud at. >> the effective imposition of sanctions on iran. i think time is short and there's a lo of work to do. >> chlie: mr. prime minister, thank you very much fotaking time forhis conversation. it's been a busy dayor you. thank you for giving ushis time. >> tha you charlie. >>harlie: this intervi was recorded on wednesday. the prime minier on thursday as we broadct this ll have delivered his speh to e united nations, the speech tt

we showedyou excerpts from earlier. thank you for jning us, se you next time. captioning sponsored b rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.or