>> charlie: welcome to the broadcast. tonight, a conversatiowith the presidenof iran, mahmoud madinejad. but rst, an update ase look at iran'suclear program and its missile testing with david sanger of "the w york times" anray takei o the council on foign relations. >> this was a large-scale election. this took democracy to new, undefinelevels. it was a new model. and i'm quite surprised there are people who chant slogans of democracy but when it comes to iran they decide to back a minority -- i mean, i thought democracy meant the rule of the jority, so how come it is that the american and british politicis decide to support the nority? i mean, don they believe i the definitionf democracy they gave us themselv? >> charlie one could arg that -- >> one cou argue that, with

this revelatn, on the one hand, the u.s. has gaid a negotiatinadvantage that they have notad in tee and a half years of talks. it's alwaybeen theranians whseemed to be taking the initiative. here, now, the oma administration has n only made the iranis have to decide how its they're going to respond to the u.s. offersut they've also g to elain why a completely peaceful program h a secret lation inside a military base. >> always think the crital acto in terms of sanctions regime are not so much the russians but the chinese who ve significant commercial investmentin ir, whore substantial consumers of iran's petreum prodts andare tually investingat substantial sums,nd i'm not quite sure if thehinese have agreed to sanctio regime which isnerous and ceainly retards their own investment and access to iranian--ranian oil

faciliti. >> charlie: anpdate oniran, d a conversion with iranian president mahud ahmadinejad. next. >>harlie: funding for "charlie rose" has en provided by the following. >> each day, abillion people won't find safe drinking water. arou the world we'reelping communities to accs clean water. rking to improve lives through conservation and educati. one drop at time. >> additional funding for "charlie rose" was also provided by these funde. >> and by bloomberg. a pvider of multimedia news d information services worldwide. >> from ourtudios in new york city, this is "crlie rose." ♪ >> charl: tonight we devote an houro iran as tt country is

back on the front page with the revelation that had secret nuclear facilityburiedn a mountain near the holy city of qom, follod by a test firing of short- and medium-range missiles or the weekend and toy. as the world waits for the first dict talks between iran and thunited states in 30 years set to take place in geneva this ursday, international unity seems to be building. at t 20 summit this we, presidt obam french president saozy and gordon own wanted to allow inspectors immediatel before the secret facility was exposed i had a conversation with presint mahmoud ahmadinejaon thursday morning, in new york last week. we discussedany things including the disputed elections and allegions of toure and rape. we wil begin that conversation immediately after this update. joining me w for that update from washingtons david sanger of "the new york tim."

he broke e story of the decisi by world lears to expose iran's covert enrichment facility. and y taki of the counci on foreign relations, until last month an iran adviso in the obama administration. i am plead to ve both of them bacon this ogram. vid, give me thetory that came to you and what it was. >> for a long time, charlie, american intligence agencies ha been looking for a secret enrichmentacility, or series of enrichment facilities iran, and the reas is simple. we all spend a lot ofime looking at those videos of t giant enrichment fality at natanz, the one reveed in2002 by an iranian enrichment group butt that facility the international atomic inspection agencies out in a week. many intelligence ficers have

saido me over yearsif a bo is cing out of iran it' not comingut of natan it's got to be cong from someplace else and r years theywere looking for aonstruction in this mountain nor of qom and in fact last yea when i was doin some ierviews with intelligence offials for a book, onef them said to me, "youknow, we kw theres secretenrichment activity, we just don't know ift's ongoing." well, the iranians came to the conclusionometime in the past few months that the secrecy of this site had beenblown, and last nday, just asresident oba wasrriving at the united nations, they nt a very crypc, brief note to the iaea that sd, "we'll be telling you mo about a pilotplan" and a that pointhe administration kicked into gear and said, you know, "we're goi to have to reveal plicly what this is if 're going to ve any

negotiating advaage." so ty now believe that the revelaon of this site is going to give themhat advantage, and there one fact about this site that i think is me important than any other. it is based inside an iraan revolutionary gud corps base. it's hard to explain how you would ve a civilian nlear program going o inde a military base. >> charlie: and the rpose of it was enrichment andhey already were in th process of tting ctrifuges there? >> the purpose wasenrichment, and they we beginning to ve in equipment, but i do not know if they have actually begun to move in thecentrifuges, and we just looked at a number of satelle photographs of what appears to be the site. there will be number ofthese in "the times"tomorrow and the eel reinforcementhat has gone up over the tunnelthat they were building for the site is remarkable, and ithows you that the iranians were quite concerned that this thing had to be bombproof above all else -- and then, of course, it's built

into the side of a mountain. >> charlie: y, what will be the consequencesof ts discsure and theoordination beeen the united ates and britain and france a perhaps -- perhaps russia although meeddev did not appear at the press conference with the others? -- medvedev did notappear at the press conferenceith the othe? >> i think as a result of is latest iranian, there is going to ba greater degree of internatiol solidarty at least in the short-term, i think there is possibility the ssians may be more receptive to sancons regime. i always thi the crical actor in terms of a sanctions reme are not so much the russians but the chinese who have signifint commercial instments iniran, who are substantial consumer of iran' petroleum products and are actually investing at substantial sum and i'm not quite sure if the chineseave agreed to sations regime which isnerous and certainly --

rerds their own investme and access to iranian oil facilities. but nevertheless, i thi coming on the heels of the june election, the crackdown, and now this particular infracon, there is a greer degree of scrutiny on ir, there is a eater degreefsolation and thadministration seems to have put some st of acoalition together. the question wld be whether that coalition will pre durablor not, which would be difficult to discern at this point. charlie: can sanctions, in your judgment, have animpact to change either a goal aut -- thatran might he about nuclr? >> it's going to be very difficul for sanctions succeed, first of all they have to be multilateral. multilateral means encompassing not just the europeanor even the russians and the chese but other acrs -- malaysians and indonesis and the countries that iran increasingly has

banking relationshipswith. they have toe prolonged and protracted. sanctions en't going to work quickly and expeditisly,o you have to have aroad coalition and you ve to be able t maintn that coalition for a protracted, if not a prolonged, period ofime, that's why sanctions fatigue kicks innd you begin to see evaporation of that solidarty which is why i was trying to differentiate betweeshort-term solidarty an long-term maintenance of that particul ity. at's going to be very diffict for a country like iran to rain that isolated,o if they're going dn the sanctions roe, they he to do some very difficult work in rms of maintaining this internatiol coalition. now, will say iranians are doing all th can to lp out the united states inorging and maintaining a coalion not only in ter of the electoral irregularities, tir sham stalinist ials butow this event whichdds to the issue. >> charlie: one thing thatas at variance to what y said is if they believe tha in fact the

russians will join the chinese will comalong because they don't want to be isoted. >>hat's the theory, that diplomatally the russians give chinese cover. however --iplomatically the russians give chinese ver however in sudan when they felt the investments were endanred by security cocil deliberations, thehinese may be able to differentiate themselves from the ssians but to be sure, t chinese quire russia cover -- diplomatic umbrella maintaitheir own sition. the question is how far t russians are going go in terms of sanctioning the united states. are they going to embrace the united states and increasingly european poly or are they going be somewhere in the middle with the more wateredown sanctions regime? that rains to be seen. there is a lot of eitement ming out of the meetingsast we but we'll e in practice if the excitement translates into russian mbrace of american

priorities. >> charlie: david, what do th expect from thisoctober 1st meeting in neva? >> well, t say that expectations are vy low would beo wildly overstat the case. one could argue that, with this revelation, on thene hand the u.s. has gained a negotting advantage at they have not had in 3 1/2 years oftalks. it'slways been the irians seem to be taking the initiati w -- the obama admintration hanot only made the iranians have to decideow it is ty're going to respond tthe u.s. fers but they've also goto explain why a completely peacef program has a secre cation inside a military base, so i think for a whe, at least, they've gothe iranians off balance. that said, 's not cle to us that the irian learship particularly, these conditions when ey're quite divided capable of making a

decion, and certainly would not wa to appear to be weak to the united states. so we don't even kn, at this point, if the iranians are going to show up let's assume they do. i expect tt they will say tt inspectors can come into the new qom facility t it's not merely letting the inspectors in that the u.s. or the other allies have in nd. they want to be able to interview the engineers, have sets of blueprints, lk around at all the piping a the work, set up monitoring equipment. this is going be very difficult, i think for the iranians to acpt because the more you get to intervw, the more documen you see, the more you could lead t inspects on other sites, if there are other sites and, of course, that's the inte, so you could argue at thisrevelation, while it wl set the iranians on the defensive may alskeep

us from making much progress. >>harlie: is there consensus as to what iran's objectives are? >> i think tt the iranians at this point -- to many people w i interview say want to have a nuclear cability, but whether they wan to have a nuclear weapons not clr. >> charlie: exactly. >> so in other wor, th may be able to assemble the fuel, the talent and, of course, the missilesogether and not combine them all so that they could stay wiible the confines of the nuclear nonproliferion treaty without actual having a weapon, but iwould be clear the world thathey could put a weapon together very quickly. now, there are oth countries in this position, arlie, as we've discussed before- we have ndoubt that japan could make a weapon fairly quickly but we d't sit around and wry abouit. there are many other nations that fit that description.

an may simply be assembling everything and stopping short o the strategic decisionto go ahead with a weapon. >> charlie: ray, give me yr best assessmentf what's going on inside -- you wl see some of that in the interview that i did with president ahmadinejad in just a moment which we talked about the aftermath of the election and w they felt necessary to have trials and impron people and allegations of tture and death -- but how seous is the split anwhat is e -- and how do you expect the regime to de with it? and has it strengthened them because of -- o weakened them? >> well, it's a weaked regime, theris really no queion aboutit, the regime this point s disenchanted a vast majority of the citizenry by the fraudulent election and engaging in such ve nullification. that's a long-termproblem, in the see that the fact that the polation of the country -- the

citizey of the country has lost confince in the state and the ability of the stateo reondo its colctive will -- >> charlie: let m just interrupt you. beforehis eltion, did the ahmadinejad adnistration have support of the people? obviously,here was a discontent because the election results showit. >> yes. president ahmadinejad could claim, in 2005 at least in the seco round that he n legititely, he won 63% of the vote so he could make a claim that unlike any other middle eastern leadere was genuinely elected. he cannot make tha claim today because of thecontested nature the eleion. >> charlie: did he lose the election? are the numbers not we peeive them? >> in the 2009 election, the regime released the resul that he got 62% othe votelmost immediatel afterhe election was ended -- election da leadyo to lieve that they didn even count the ballots. he got62% of the vote in almost every district -- in almost every principali.

the numbers st didn't ange. it's the mos strgest statistical deviaon one ha seen by all accounts,t's hard to belie that 85% of the iranians would go to the llot and mrahmadinejad wld get that kind of plurality, so he most certainly di't get that vote. probably lost the ection. but nevertheless, they engaged in this massive frau the long-term, they do have a problemwith the populationhat is urban, well educated and restive. in the short term, t problem the regime faces is a very serious fragmentation wiin the elite, a fragmentati that i mypinion is unbreachle. many membe of the regime have separated themselves fm the ste, and you begin to see the government engage in wholesale eological purges which fther narrows the base of govern -- those they actually govern so on the one hand the social base narrows because of the disenchantment, cagories of

elit that hav come together inhe past has narrowed so is a muchore narrowly based regime. howeve president ahmadinejad has endless level of confince andit's hard to see ife perceives himself as the facts suggest. >> charlie: has it strengthed or weakened the relationship wi the ayatolh? >> that lationship has remaed stro. >> charlie: erefore, they'r in t same boat? >> they'r in the same boat. ayatolh khamei has decided to get on th tiger's back. can no longer presen himself as someone w presides over the state a neutral manner as someonwho take into account all the factions and the constituenes of the islamic republic. he mada choice and now he's in with ahmadinejad, they're tother, and where the go from here they' going to have to go togeer. >> charlie: at do you make, david,f the request to give themenriched uranium -- 20%, i

think it was -- iorder to use for medical purpos at a facili in tehran? >> you know, 's a -- rathe clev request, because they put the west in the positn of seeming to deny iran the usef uranium fo a medil,and thus humanitarian, puose. t i don't think there is goi to be any conditns in which you will see a of the western cotries give an uranium of any kind. what i findarticularly interesting about this is at during one of predent ahmanejad's earlier visits, i think one of his fir vits to the u.n. where he had a dinr one evening that i think, charlie, you and i were both at, you may recl that he ended that dinner by offering to sell

uranm to the united states a ha price after he got it all enriched, so this a game they play back and forth fo a while. >>harlie: israel. does this strethen the argument they may be making within the councils of the u.s. relationship that,"see, we told you so, y're going toave to do something"? "we'llive you -- our tolence is oy until the end of ts year"? ray? >> i thi most israelis -- the israeli government, certainly, would prefer tha diplacy and economic sctions take ce of this issue -- that somow cumulated international pressure wil lead iran to acquiesce and conform to the securi council resolutions. i havebsolutely no idea whether israelis are serious or not about militari dealing th this issue if diplomacy fails andeconomic sanions don't produce results. i justdon't know enoug about their anatomy andbout their decision-making to me that

gues i suspect they themselves don ev know what -- >> charlie: so do i. >> butt this point -- this point, like everybody else in the internatiol community theye hoping,omehow, diplomacy, economic pressure, international isolatn, resolves this sue. now, if it doesn't, then israelis as well as evybody else will ve to make hard decisions about what they're going to do with the program opating outside the confines ofhe u.n. curity council resolutionhat's an illegal program at this int. >>ne more pnt on the israeli developmt, when president obama made the announcemt on friday i thoug it was quite interesting that he and his ais said that the discory of thqom site had set back th anian progra and when i asked over the weekend of some senior offials, "do you believe this is the primar clandestinesite?" they all said yes, they do, so thatrgument is partf the gger case they're tryingo make that they've owed the

iranians down and the iaelis should give tm more time bere consideri a military opon. the other way to look at that is that iyou believe a the israelis do that therere other sites out there, and some american officials belie this is possible as well, en they may sa you know, ey hidthis onso well f s many years, even tugh the u.s. was following it on satellite and so forth, that they need to be dealt with before they could build up other covt sites. >> charlie: secrary gates i think has said thathe most you could assume fm any attack on their facities was a delay of two to three years. am i right abo tt, ra >> that's absolutelyright. that was ctainly when the israelis came last yearand asked for the bunker-busting weapons dor the overflight right over iq, and for refueling capability, to be able to strike the sites, and present bush turned them down, the estimat inside the white

house at that time was that at most, they wod get a few years, mbe en just six or eighmonths of delay in the stem and tt it wasn' worth it, and you certaiy heard secretary gates repeat that this weekend. >> charl: ray, is this an accurate argument that s far the iranians have be winning this game because whi they ha played back and foh with whever negotiating group the was including the iaea, a it hadone has played into their hands? >> y could make a case that up until this point iraniansave been successful in one rticular objective, namely advancing the nuclea program, and advancing it with some degr of punishment, but e pushment has proven enduring, part as a result of the increase in oil price and so forth. ineasingly, i think iranians are beginnin to find themselves in a slightl different situion. ere is a greater degree of inrnational pressure. there is no americ

administraon as wa the bush administrati which gets liob's share of the ble by the euroans -- lion sharef the blame by the admintration. there was a significant share of engageme by t obama administration whichhe iranians rejected so the problem is no longe the unitestates. the problem, increasingly, is coming iran. th, two events tk place that reinforced the american case. th elections. which waa cataclyic event and eosed the iranian regime foralltsbrutal reality then came theealization of the clanstine facility after the government wasaying all the faciliti were safe guarde and transformed to the intnational obligatis so a cbination of these facts is beginning to change the lascape. iranians m b successl in the near future in terms of adncing the progr, but creasingly there is going to be a cost. now, y can make the case that they're willinto absorb that cost no matterow inordinate it will be but nevereless they're

in a slightly differentosition now. theyave lost their levege. the conte has changed. america is no longer the problem. ir is beginning to seen as a cotry outside the boundsf ternational law, enging in activities, rejecting sincere offers of diplomacy. that's not an enable position to be . >> crlie: last point, becae i taed to president ahdinejad about this -- dyou think therefore they will be willing to --because of t circumstances, are the less likely to prosecu all of the people that we involved in the political afrmath of the ection? >> i thi there is a sligh vision within the regime on th particular issue. i ink ahmadinej and many of his follers will like t go aheaand have a complete purge of the polical system and that mea notust those who ar apprehend but go ahead an arrest even former president khatamei and candidate musabi.

i thk supreme leader is sitant about movingo that stage of psecution becau of the potential domestic backlash so that's why yo see not cessarily the persecuti of totality of e reme's opponents but a select few,nd that select few list is benning to expand becaus there arstill some divisions thin the regime on how to proceed. >> chaie: i look forward to seeing you here in new york. david, fantast reporting and coratulations and thankyou for sharing it with us this ening. >> thankou, charlie. >> charlie: if you want to know more about nuclear kin of things, david's book is called "the heritance" which is a remarkable read. back in a moment. r conversation thursday of last week before any of this broke with mahmo ahmadijad -- the psident of iran. stay with us ♪ ♪

>> crlie: mr. president, thank you veryuch for this third oprtunity to talk with you. tell me in your words what happed in the electio in iran and why it resulted in so man people in thstreets. so many people arrted. so much talk about arrests, torture, death in prisons, cluding children of highly respected irians. anare you sily going to leave it to the judiciy as to what hapns now about people on trial? te me your story of the election. and aftermh.

>> you know that in iran, electionare real elections. reallycompletely popular ones. >> charlie: in conast to? >> we, no, i mean, t entire election is not controlled by the people -- you know ver well what i am saying here. there are places where -- mean, elections are simply a show in thend of the day but in iran this just not possible. you can't rry show at that level. when the irann revolution happened, in established a real republic. over a period of 30 years, we've had 30 natial elections of various sorts.

our election sysm is a pular-based stem, a hundred percent of it is. those who enforc -- those wit who carry out thelections are actually from e people. those trusted by ople in localies, in towns, in villages, people select thes people. and so they help carry out the elections and it idone with the supeision of the people. there are actually gssroots oups that come together d carry out d supervise the elections withi a framork defined by t law, and then people go to the polls. now, in the past electi, and this time, somhing new happenedhich did not have anytng to do with our electoral system.

it really had more to do with claims made by a few politicians. i want to take you back to 1384 iranian calendar year the last election. if you bear withme, i'll just tell you what i am trying to get to. in 138 inian calendar year whh was four years ago, the elections took place. and people elected me. backthen the government in ple was behind the person nning against me with full force. even t ministers in the previous govnment went to different par ofhe country to lead ection campaigns. for him. and this is reallyot common d it's not reay looked at

very wel in the iran culturally in our political culture the officials of the interior ministry tooa position agnst on numerous occasions in that past election. and they were theones in charge of holding t electi/ns. now,two of the candides said, until the verynd of the first tenure of office that they were bacallyelectoral frauds that were carrie out athat time butt was interesting, they were the ones who cared out the electi. eir own friends and their own foowers and supporters we e ones who carried outthe election. but because they didn' like the results, they basical saidthe eltions were fraudulent.

all thes politicians all managed to come to office in e pastn the issue ofour revolution to the same election process th was on the ground when i waselected. they became president. they became heads of state. they became parliament speakers. they thought -- they were reall beliing that people should just simpl elect em, and if peopleould not elect them there is probly something wrong with the system. w, all the polls that were carrd out before the eltions showed t same results. maybe a margi of 1% he upr down. therwere 10'sof pol carried ou and they all showed that ahmadinejad will win buthey couldn't accept it. i mean, they had organed

foesworking against -- >> charlie: pele in the stets who didn't accept it. grand ayatollah matazeri didn't accept it. there s criticism from rafsanjani. so it wasn't just a few politicians. it was a range of people. >>ust because it's a thousand politicians, it doesn't matter. what matters is th what they say, they have to be right. charlie: sons and daughters >> that's whou see, it doesn't matr. when there is --environment -- when they start architecting situation, te ontrol, it doesn't matter. what they do caot determine what's right o wrong.

the is a law and tre is a truth and that defines what is right. now, few people may not like it or acce it. i askyou, what exactly is the puose of elecons? >> charlie: for the pele to choose tir leaders. >> that's it. >> chaie: pleasenderstand my estion. >> i got 2 million votes. >> crlie: serious questions we raised about tt election in in your country. so much so that thesupreme leader raised questions himself and asked for investigations. sueme leader. inhe end he confirmed you, b there were serious questions. you can't just bsh this off. there were serious questions about hun-rights violatis of people. i'm asking you to speak to that. s there?

do you conmn it? and is it time nowo be f/rthcomingbout some of those questions? >> bear wi me. >> charlie: i have all day. >> i don't havall day. well, mr. montavi stood against khamenei. >> charlie: many thought he would behe ccessor. >> true, but it was ima himself who t him inside -- mean, he ands opposed to e system. is considered as position in iran. from our viewpointwhat he says

do not have any legal credibility. but there is a law that definis things in ou count, and if take the law out, there is noing left. when you say why the judicia system cannot or will take charge of the affairs, the estion is - i mean, if not the judiciary, th who? which body is supposed to car througwith these issues we did conde what happene >> crlie: you condemned what? >> eve conflict and clash there was. some of our fellow citizenswere killed. out 30 people. most of them, actuly, wer supportersf theovernment. ordiry people. who we in tir stores, i eir cars, whoere shping, who were on theiray to a

party. these were people who supported the government, ther mr. ruval amin, oost his own son is e of my frnds. >>harlie: i know. >> we're frids. however. this is a prestaged program, and it was encouraged by some people. and an effort was made to put a positive spin on an illegal act, and some british politicians as well as some america poticians andome media were also trying to turn anllegal t into a legal act, and that was not right. the purpose of elections soto make se no one goes on the streets. >> charlie: the purpose of an

election is to make sur no on goes on the streets? >> yes. because the resul of election is meant t demonstrate that the rule ofthe majority is wha carries throug no without elections, people ll have to go on e streets and fig with one another t decide who wins and weverins on the street fightill then take over theountry buthat's exactly whyehave eltions. in order to channel the process thugh a popular vote to decide who shld lead a country, and the peon whoins amajority will lead the cotry -- i mean, in the end, in any election, there is alws a majoritynd a group that is in the minority. now,he group in t minority cat simply question why they're inhe minority and decide to go on the streets d brk windows and set things on fire, setarbage cans on fire -- what kind ofethodology is

that it's kind of -- i would say despicable. i have t tell you at this point in time that there are some politicians in iran that think thatthey own iran because -- >> charl: are you ferring to mr. rafsanjani? >> it dsn't matter. >> chaie: specifically tell what you think of mr. rafsanni. because he's a powerful inian with a long histy and for 20 years hs been making the friday speech and he was not allowed to make the spch this ye, so helps understan what's going on. >> do you see a problem with wh you said? just becau someone has a 20 30-year record, do theyeed to be the leaderat alltimes? everody's term comes to an en at some poi. i mean, if everybody stayed in plac what are the young people suppos to do? >> charlie: there is notng inevitable about having mr. rafsanjani make at speech?

>> i mean, nobod can st mr. rafsanjani from doin what he does. he c make hiswn decisions anmake up his o mind about his position. i do have criticism o his potion. i do believe that my vwpoint is different from his but at the same time, no one can stohim. he can decide what he wants to do. >> charliewhat's important is to hear from you, because these important events he taken place. d i appreciate that opportunity. what eect did all this have on you? did it make you more powerf? did it make you aware that u had to rch out? did it make you angrybout mrmousavi or m karroubi?

you'rehe president of iran elected, and governments hav recognized you. so how do you feel about a this? >> well, i was hoping that these thingsould not happen. iould have liked see everyone work han in hand with meo build our country. i do have my complaints of them. i really do. i mean, peoe vote. and if people don't vote me io officei shouldn't get ary about it. why should i? >> chaie: is that what happened? th got angry because they didn't get the vote? >> it's noing but that. because e elections were free. everne said everything ty wanted tsay -- i mean, we h free debates bere the election

and fact, the cpaign was 10 times ronger than mine. but people voteme into office -- mean, it was peoe that said, "you cannot punishpeople fothe decisions they make." >> charlie: tod in an, are you more powerful because of what hpened at the election and after the elecon and because of the response of ayatollah khameini? do you he a new retionship with the rolutionary guard? how do youee your future and your ability and ur power in iran >> i'm a normal, regular person

in iran. i was a teacher at a university and i'm a government- i'm sorry, yes, an enginr. people --individuals don't matter assuch. what mters is that our naon -- the powerful -- and it is a powerful one -- the iranian nation has proven that it can digestlarge events. and support of the leadership was not a support given an individu, it was a suppo given to theaw. heaid it is the law tha must run every affa in the country. that musrule the country. and for the first time, the ader uses his prerogative to extend the te frame normally given post-ections for electoral complaints. the guardi council announced

several timesthat any other party that may have domentation or evidence proving that t election may have been distorted should hand those over to the grdian counci and theother side said, "no, e eleoral process itself was finebut the environment inhe country wasjust not right." >> charl: are you saying that there is no deep divide in iran toy? no deep divide between reform, the forces of reform andhe forcesof president madinejad andis lies? as a result of that election,is there a hism in your country? i wou like t make two points, here. first of all,the iranian nation is ufied nation. 's a fact. i mean, for years we've had elections. and people have voted, and then

they acct the results of the vote. even rightow ase speak, over 90of the people believe that the resultsof the elections were legaland correct and they're goingn with their daily live no there areroups that are influenced by political -- you know, processes that are under way, and they're not really directing their criticism at me. nor at the electn process. they'rsaying that we'using the eltion as an excus that's what they say themselves. now, these may be people who really may not ke the way some thin are done in our country. i mean, we don't really reprimand them anyone can have thr own viewpoint at the en of the day viewpoint at the en of the day

should be legal. anyone #an come an be able to place their name on the list candidates runng for an electionanif people vote them into fice they can carry out their ow policies a sort of give it their own touch, but they can say that i'm a minority that wants to reace a majority. it just can't be done. it just can't be done. to make here is that elections in were on a lae sca th past electn and it wa 100% fre the candidatesactually challenged enery single foundation of the islami republ itself -- some of tm sa we even seek to change th system.

you can find a high lel of basic cooperation and collaboration at ts r%cent electi -- mean, do you know anywhere in the world where voter turnout, fo example, was voter turnout, fo example, was not really. i mean, the are really exceptions to the case. >> chaie: there is no questi about the facthat -- >> i mean,his was a large-scale election. this was --ookemocracy to new, undefined levels. there was a new del. and i'm quiteurprised there are people who chant slogansf democry but when it comes to iranhey decide to back a minority. i thought democracy mean ,he rule of the majorit how co it is that the ameran and brith politicians decide toupport the minority? don't theyelieve in the

definition of democracy ty gave us thselves? i mean, the jority are sitting right before you right now. >>harlie: indeed, but -- but you keep -- you reference -- i'm a little bit over time her cugivee four or five me minute can you give me five more minute yes? that's a yes, i think, for all of you who might wanto stop. >> ts is because i psonally liker. charlie rose. >> charlie: thank you. with respe to the electio even the ayatollah -- nody said that tre was no britis or arican influence, tha that wanot true. is that correct? >> no, that's not what he said. >> what di he say? >> let me tell you somethi else. it mighthelp. yestery i had an interview with a lady right here. she shed me a piure. she said"do you know thi

person thiss a girl who lost@ her life in the demonstrations, in the ashes that to place in tehran on e streets. i said, yes, i know her." miss dal sultan, a girl who s regrettably killed. now, i want to say o things about this and th you will be ableo drive your own --drive your own results of the election in iran as a result of what i'm about to say. we saw a film in which thi lad was walkg from a main street, ving, and there is a camera showing u,nd she walksinto side stre%ts that h nothing to do /ith the demonstrationsment there were no denstrations. there was nothing going o on that street. all of a sudden, she falls down and blood pours out her by, and thenhe's killed.

so th% camera wa following her for a very long time, actually. the sa film clip that was shown all over the world. it madee very sad to seehat on of our citizens was lled. but then the question was that th camera that was following this lady was able to take the sh -- basicallyhow who the kill was. cause she was hit at close shot. very closeshot with small gun. if tt camera was able to show o the killer was, why didn't they provi the imto us so that we couldasically find the killer? with respect to a second point wa to make about this.

a similar thingappened in venezuela in a cou tt was rried out against mr. chavez. there was a you girl who was moving from a main street into a sidestreet, and mr. @chavez is accused of e murder. now, athe time those leading e coup we beingupported by the u.s. government at the time if you remember. that complicated the electio -- st-election process in our country and in our election proces there were some complications but in the end of the y peoedid and they're still there --hey're still ght there behind us, stronger than before, re united than before, d i will guarantee you that. and they're even more aware tha

before. i live with the pele. >> charlie: with respect, are you suggestg that she became a rallying cry dung the demonstration,es? her death became a symbol, yes? of this young woma i do agreehat she became a symbol, and it's very sad that she was -- charlie: k)lled. >> killed. she was a fellow citizen. fellowcompatriot it mak me very sad. i tell you how the scerio is designed -- >> charlie: i'm trying to understand. what's your point about h death? it's tragi i say we' trying to find the killer. we want to say it' a scenario that was pdesigned. charlie: predesigned? you tnk it was a predesigned so that she would be killed so they would hav it on tape, yes? >> definite, d%finitely we have no doubt about it.

itas a very complicated, predesned, basically, enario. and i have askedhe judiciary personly to carry this case a sort of specianeed basis and really find t. get to the bottomf it and find out what happened. whshould one of our fellow citizense shot on the street the way she was? >> charlie: you shou be concerned abo the young people in your country. were there any-- have u inveigated that, those accusations that came out of rture and ra and death in prison? >> these were basically accusations made b mr.

mr. karroubi, told him to offer the documentand evidence so they could follothrough. mr. rroubi said "i got angry when they asd me f evidence, and i don't have any docunts." you see, in iran we don't d around with ople -- with no e. no matterow senior or jus how ordinary- a regular person anne ght be. if anyone violates the law, whether insidehe priso or outside, it is the responsibility of our judicial system to take care of the case based the principles our legal ystem. now, ian officer -- sically, a derelicti of duty or an officer violateshe w, that's a separate qstion and that needs to be dealt with and by the judicialystem very carelly. but in the lar scheme of

things, our law, ourculture, r religion belves -- tell us we really ve to get to e bottom of all of theseases and god willg, we will. >>harlie: thank you very much. y i also -- i know that you haveeen askedbout this on rt of "the washingtopost" and "newsweek azi al-bahari, the "newsweek" journalist a lot of us in this coext are concerned about him anhis release. i hope all priners are released. but i think tha seone should also bconcerned about the iranian nation >> charlieyou're concerned about the irian naon. i ha many quesons. i do not want to abuse my me. you havenvited me to come to ir. >> definitely. pleas% do me.

coordina with mr. -- you can come, go to haman, esfahan. >> charlie: whato you hope i e? >> whater you see will be good things. everything theres lovely. irann nation is o of the best. e of the best. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

>> charl: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided the following. >> 60% of all wae can be recycl. verage cans and bottles are among the most recled in the worl anwe're also working toward more efficient bevere containers, one dr at a time. >> charlie: additional funng for "charlie ros was also provid by these funder >> and by bloomberg. a provider of multedia news and formation services wodwide. captioning spoored by roseommunications

sturbed.

i can't go back.