>> rose: welcome to the broadcast. we begin this eving wit ken burns and his taken the magnificence of america's national pks. >> this is the dlaration of independence applied to th landscape. it's a theirive that's so closely parallels the larger americ theirive that you can find in the crevic of the park us >> rose: we contue with part two of our conversation with former fed chairn paul volcker my tax philosophy woulbe if we can't dealwith our expendite load with the esent tax system we have ink about changing tax system. whene think about changing the

tax system, given the probm we started outtalking about, you have to talkbout a tax that hi consumption. >> rose: conclude about a new movie about koko chanel with the star audrey tauu and director anne ftaine. >>the first idea he had was to ee her withlothes so i don't think she had general idea in the beginning forashion. >> rose: it was st freedom? >> yh. i think she waser own laboratory. >> i you die d a bio pick, like a amecan biopick all this time i tnk you can'tgo through her deeply, it was not my pnt of view and al i want to be free. when she w young i am free because there is n perfu, no things to do with the housef chanel. i can't complety expss, and alsohe's more moving, she's vulnerable. >> rose: magnificence of our nationalarks, the ideas o paul volker andhe lif of ko

chanel when continue. captioning sponsored by rose communitions fr our studios in new york city, this is chare rose. >> rose: ken burns here. he is, as you know, the film maker who brought you unforgettabl documentaries about the civil war, about

baseball, and about zz. his store january steven ambrose once said more americans get their story fromenurn reasons at any other source. his latest film"national parks, america's be idea" is a the-hour look into thehistory ofhe parks as well as the peop who fought to create and eserve them. here's aook at the documentary >> they are a treasure house of nature perlatives, 84 million acres of the most stunning landscapes anyone haever seen. including a mountain so massive it crees its own weather, ose peak rises more than 20,000 feet above a level, the highest point on e continent. avalley where a river

disappears int burning sands 282 feet below sea level. the lowt, driest, a hottt location ithe country. a byrinth of caves longer than any otherver measured. and the deepest lake in the nation wh the carest water in the world. >> rose: i am pleased to have ken bus back at table. coratulations and welcome back. >> thank you very ch. >> rose: let's just stewart this story here. whe the idea come from? >> the idea ce from one of my ng time producg partners dayton duncan. >> rose: who's right here. >> who's right there and is my best frienand we live together and have ised ourapl flees this littlevillage in new hampshire, i've been there 30 years, he's en there 20. we've done fis on the landscape,e've done you ve? which we'vexplored this centl question of ours, wh are we, through the lascape. so the history of the west in

lewis and clark, mark twain o e first cross country automobile trip, a humorouslook lled horatio's drive, and it ached the wednesday ts story becausthis is declaration of independence applied to this landscap it's a theirive thatso close parallelshe larger american narrative tt you can find in the crevices of the parks us. and that's what we'reooking for. >> rose: ifact, you have said that national parksre democracy applie to th landscape. >> yeah. i mean, for t first time in human history, human beings set aside land not f kings o noblentorvery rich, as all la had been disposedof in a of human history beforehat, but for everybody d for all time. 've saved vast swathes of our natural landscape r everybody. we're allco-owners. they sort of represent decratic impulse and ey could ha only come from a democratic people. and as it turns out d

unbeknownst to either of us when we started this proje, the story is not st a top-down e i'd say historyand they' go ddy roosevelt, they're tre and important but it's a bottom up story that's black and brown and red and yellow and female and unknown well as the mous white guys. this isn't a politically correct expediti but a naturally occurring diversit where people fell in love with a place. >> rose: why cou ant dictator create nional parks? >> well,f you were a dictator you'd create your huntg preserves orour own space, it wodn't occur to yo you do anytng else. now 's been copied all arou th world but the initial pulse is me, mine. someone asked me abouthis other day and i id the movie "it's a wonderful life." we have a choice between pottersville and bedford falls. ttersvilleis bernie madoff, it's all for me. bedford falls ruires an undersnding of commonwealth.

th we're in this togetr, part of a conship of larger things. so if there were nnational rk it is grand canyons would be lined wh mansions of the rich and we'd never see the view. if there we no natural parks, the evelades would have ng sie been drained as a worthless swamp and paved over. if there we no national parks, that would be a gated community. if there were noational parkss yellowone would be geyser world. i mean it's literally... this represen insome ways our bt selves. >> rose: let's look at this. u'll see some of the technique in this film. this is an cerpt from you e the first installment in wch the national parks reprent democratic values. >> what could be moreemocratic than owning together the most nag siff sent plas on your continue innoct? think about eure. in europe, the most magnificent places, the palaces, the pas, are owned by aristocrats, by monarchs, byhe wethy. in america, magnificenc is a common treasure. at's the essence of our

democrac. >> nationalarks, the writer and historian wlace steger in on said, are theest idea we've ever had. >> it's not the bestdea. the best idea came from thomas jefferson, that all human beings irrespectivef the accident of their birth, are entitled to enjoy the aspirations of bng full complete andree huma begs. that's arica's gift to t worl but right up there are the tional parks. >> rose: as ias lookg at at, ioday youhile we were watching it together, where do you gethese people? and th you listen to them and you said t me as weere coming out of that tt someoneaid "this has to be sipted." you don't givehem thequestion you want to crte the most real remembrae and observaon you can. >> and then, as you d, listen. just listen. and then follow that line of thought. and so you list to somebody like clay jhg kinson or shelton johnson the ranger from

semite and somebody saido me th was an actor, a i said no and he doesn't see the thing that w made up on e spot. it's all extemporanes. that's, of course, theay it has to be. >> rose: it took youeven ars? >> we starte the ideaten years ago, triedto fire out the form, wrestle the colicated russian novel of intercnection all the plots tether and we've be shooting forsix. and it'seen the most... i mean we've... we'vead to shoo from the gates of the arctic in northern alaska the dry tortugas to hawaii volcanos to acadia and allhe places in between. that took a lot of time. >> rose: why were yourawn to the9th century naturalt. >> chaie, he's ascended into my pantheon he's up there wi abraham lincoln and jkieobinson, mark twain, elizabe cade cady stanton. >>ose: man, that's an impressive placeo be. >> we tend to getinto sbur laivthes and hyrboles in this business of ours but he's a

scottish born wanderer,ho walks intoosemite, gets a job accidentally and is able sort of eape the specif gravity ofis harsh peres be attorney upbringing, a father that beat him until at age is 1 he memorize ihad entire new testament d most of the old testament and could fd a face in the mntains, an american face sort connected to emern and thoreau that was the genius of not only our political freedomsut the genius of our religious freedoms is at i uld find godn the cathedral in nature better than i could do that in aathedral built by man followinhis dmatic devotions. anhe liberated us all. he ban to wri as both of a sort of holy man and a scientist. fall the same package. and hi writings are as relevant today, if you pick him up, he is a poet. d it's like reading whitman. he's just fantasti and he is th father of the park idea. he commands even in t second episode wherhe has to compete

with theodore roosevelt, he commandshe first two esodes. he dies athe end of the second and his spirit is... sufficient fuses every moment of the rest ofhe series d he's got the first word a the last word. >> re: i have a frien who... a buness person, vy successf, made a lot of money, retired, mod to wyong with his wifeand bought a cabin, a nice cabin. he gs up ery morning in the cabin and goes in srch ofthe beau that you pture here. >> rose: >>ature never gets it wrong. human beings and civilizati quite ofn, as we know, gett wrong. so mucof what we talk about at this table e flaws andur foibles. nature doesn't gett wrong. it's true. and when you subt yourself to nature, there's a paradoxhat takes place. and these are thonly places where we can see pristine nature. which iswe are me toeel our

insignificce in the presence of such eraordinary places. and yet that makesus bigger and connected to everything else. and so thoseof us who ar open to it, the hearts. the parks perform a kind of on heart surgerand you can go outhere and they fee some thing, some hunger that we all have, i think that maybe some of us have yet to awaken to, but they' there. and person aftererson from every cceivable backound and station who have those momen, every one of the penal that focus in the film were transfmed by the parks. every one of the people interviewed tolds about their experice and each one ofs o worked on theilm had some personal eerience where it awakened memory or it just... just rocked us, rearranged our molecules. i ve no other y to describ it than at. >>ose: roll tape. >> onef the lastobs i hadn yellowstone was devering the il upnowmobile. theri was in e wld's first naonal park and i member going do into the valley.

there were son crossinover the road the,000 pou mammals crossing over e roadnd it s so cold itas about 60 below zero. and theison has they breathed, their ealation would seemto crystal size in the ai around them and there were these shee these ropey strands of crystals kind of flowing downrom their brea. and i saw them and the just moved their heads and we looking at me ani remember thinking that if i h not been on that machine i woul have thout i had been thrt fully back into the priceoe seen, back into the ice age. and i remember just stopping and tuing it off because the only way you could shear to turn at thing off and i would turn it off and i wld listen and i felt like this washe rst day. >> rose: what parks did yo fall in love with? >> yosemite. i had an experience there where i told my comrades that this was the fit natural national park i'd been to obviousl lots of civil r battlefields. and afr three or four days of

working exhausting hours should he fallen into a dee sleep, couldn'tly couldn't and i suddenly rememberedthat in 1959, a yearsgo,hen i was six year old, my father took me to shanunanimous doe what national park. my mother was dng of canr. shendoah. our household was hell. he was not a od dad and one day he just tookme on our first and only road tri together d i could suddly remember lying there awa inosemite whatis hand felt like mine. i could rememb the songs that heang to me that i'v stoung my three daughters, rgetting... you know,they're my hard drive of personal mory but i'd forgotten wherei learned them. i remember every aspect of the drive,very aspt of theikes heook, he described all the trees and plants. and it was as if yosemite gave me this experice back that had not been reprsed, it had been forgotten. and so in my mind is not so much that you've got the favoriteark as you have a park that sponsored some something

else. you know, we're all looking for onand one to equal three. ou raonal world tel us it's two but we're looking for the whole to be greater tha the sum of the parts d the parks, think, provide you with expeences that sometimes ke itossible to have that kind of higher... theodoreoosevelt appeale to the higher emotions of man kind. >> rose: a you making a political stement here? >> you know, it's so funny, people ask that allhe time. we tryo hard to just tell a good storyand yet younow that history isot just about the past. history's the set of questions we in the prese ask the past. and so it is necessari a prix yourry, preoccupied with what's up now. it c't help but be, cob,ly or uncociously. and you n have film makers who ca advocate something in a conscious way but you can realize as you look at the ark of this his they gs from 185 is tis the 80, we back off. every singleissue that we're debang today is there.

out presidential leadership, about the nature ofemocracy, about the role ofovernment, about climate chge, about the impact of human beis on thes pristine environnts, everytng is recapitulated in the past. whate try to do is do it with the lightt possible touch or no touch at all and alloweople to back and fill. everytng that's happened before is hpening now. >> rose: and so you believe in a seethat if you... isthere something to be sa in terms national parks thawe must be vigilant, that we mt creat more? >> aolutely. rose: that we must repo snesz >> yes, i think this is exactly right that these represent-- if you acceptur idea that. thomas jefferson hadhe best idea but once you create the cotry you'd be hard pressed to find a better id thanhis e, that we can fin in the arc of ts akey-to-what we do righ what the chces are. this represes ourbests selves

and i think the national parks are very much pointing us i the right direction. it goes back the bes decisions d the stardship of the landeflects very highly on who we are a a people. >> rose:kay, onelast question but first this teddyroosevelt spch which will give you some of the kinds of themes we' en talking about. heret is. >> o april 24 at the end of roosevelt's visi the entire population of the town of ganer, montana, ghered at the park's north entrance for a ecial ceremony. new arch to weome visitors to yellowstone was under construction and the presint had agreed to speak at the lang of the arch's cornerston for th occasion, roosevelt reluctantly anged out of his camping clothes, pu on a business st and road through town to the awaitincrowds. he watched as e cornerstone

was carefully put into pce then climbed to a rough platfo on e stone work of the complete pillar and began to spk. >> the yellowstone park is sothing absolutely unique in the world so far as i know. this park was created and is now administered forhe benefit and joyment of the people. the scheme of its preservation is noteworthy in s essential democrac >> rose: magnificent. magnicent president, too, by the way. >> amerin. >> rose: do yoknow what's next for ke burns? >> we're updating our baseball sees. >> rose: com on! >> there's a lot of water under the baseball brie. red sox won the world series but you haveteroids, you have strikes, y have amazing yankee performance uer joeorre. you have the bravesyou have ichi, the rise of the latin player. i mean, it's just bn a fantastically intereing period and very much a mirror o our

own life. we're doina history of prohibition which is talking about everhing that we're talking about w, about the role of govnment and irusion in our lives. we've so fallenn love wit not only theater but franklin tha we're trying to pu them together as afamily drama and as an extra addedonus we have elear. so we have to do vietnam. so after say nothing towar after civil war andeluctantly ing pulled into world war ii we realize that we have to do vietnam. we're doing something on t dustowl before those witnees to the first manadecological tastrophe disappear superimposed in the dression. >> rose: what will you do on the seventday. >> (laughs >> re: >> well, we don't rest, are... you know, if i we given a thousand years to live, i wouldn't run out of topics amicanistory. >> re: what's amazing people say about me a more appropriate to you, ty say ren't you going tourn out?" or there not ing to be enough ideaso cover.

i could do this 24 hours day withnterestingdeas. i might not do it well but... and we don't do it well sotimes and that's okay, at's part of life. i spent today after four months on the road promoting national parks i spent the y working in the editing room on prohition. i turned to people and i said "i've been with the predent, i've been able speak to him and share with h stuff,'ve been on national televisn 80 citi around the country, i've shown the ing, we've gotten great notices. i'm happier now working onhis film than i've been. it's just doinwhat we do every single day. there was nothing mo thrilling than ttry to make something at was not yet de slightl tter. >>ose: quickly tell me aut showing ito the president. >> you know, w came in, w shed him about an hour's worth of stuff, selectedhose things that were about, i thought, presidential leadership. theodore rsevelt, fralin roosevelt, ter on in e '60s stewart udal under kennedy and johnson. but opened with beautif footage of the hawi volcanos. now, we had this in the editing

room workingn this for fe yes. we knew we wergoing to open with hawai lcanos so there we in the screen room, dayto is on e side of theresident, i'm on t other, our fee are up on the ottomans, we're eating hisopcorn and there the hawaii volcanos and he just turns and go "boy, you guys are really sucking up to me. >> rose: (laug) >> but mr. president! >> rose:ational parks, america's best ideas an illurated history is here in my hand with dayton, dunn and ken. it runs until the endof this week. it's aing in two-ho inallments that run for si nights. kenburns, remarkable archivt for who we are and whate aspire to be. >> rose: we contue this evening with part of o of o convertion with former federal reserve chaian paul volck talking about the fiscal health of the govnment and tax policy seems to me that th conclusion

is we probably ne to think seriously about tting on the expense side, we hay be... need to think abo the renue side. >> i think we can't do it on the revenue side and... we've got to do it on t revenue side. it too early to do itbut it's not o early to bin... you know, one possle approachwe talked about is a tax on carbon, tax on energy. that's a big revenue producer, they're willing to it. not very popular to say the least. rose: it's not popular becausit has the word "tax" in it but ao because it mns th the price at tump up to $3 and $4. >> same thing with capnd trade. thatoesn't happen with tax in itut the "wall street journal" makes se it has t word "tax" in it. >> don: (laughs) >> (laughs) and they're friends of mine. an of course, coress took that out. largely to it out. >> rose:the operative philosophy abo this administraon is we're not going to tax the middle-class, but wre going to tax people that me more than $150,000 year.

now at a tax philophy that you believe... $250,000 a year ishat a tax phisophy you believis the wisesway to go. >> i don't believe the old russell lawn philosophy, don't tax me, don't tax you, tax the guy behind theree. and can't find the guy behin the tree. >> rose: rusll long of the nate finance committee. u didn't answer my queson. you just told me a cute sry. (laughs) >> rose: (laughs) what is your taxlosfy? you're certaiy not a supply-sider, are you? >> myax plos philosophy would be if we can't dl with our expenditure loadith the present tax system we have to thk about changing the tax syem. when we ink about changinghe x system, given the problem that we started out taing about,you've got to talk about someax that hitsonsumption. rose: value-added. >> value-added is one. t a tax on carbon would be another. >> rose: right. >> those a two big once. it doesn't have be one of thostwo but tre aren't all at many choices. but i thinke ought to think

about the contrution it can make to a better balance of the econy, better environmt for investment, better rangement for maintaining our competitive position,hose are al qualies that wi a value ded tax. a vae added tax is regressive potentially. there are measus you can take to deal wi tha they're complicatedbut you can do it. but that' not the only tax. i'd love to s the expenditures held in check so we don't have too that. rose: but canou do that... yothink that's possibleo ld expendures... >> i.... >> rose: i'm asking. >> >> i don't see anythinon the horin right now that suggests that's goi to happen. but that doesn mean it' impossible. i don't see anything on the horizon right now thatays we can raise taxes,ither. but i.... >> rose: let me closeith this. yoand i talked about this a numb of times. we have seen an economy in

trouble and we have seen a government called onto rescue the economy by taking interventionist pitions in companies in the financial ctor, insance sector which might behe same, our own bl sector first was it all necessary? >>ell, i thinkt was basically necessary but the right question i at should have we don earlier to pvent it? >> rose: and the answer is? well, i ink that was... i think we were not alert. we wereot.... >> ros exactly, yes >>e were not alert about the consumption ing. we were not alert about the housing boom. weere not alert about subprime mortgages. we weren'tlert aboutredit default swap >> rose: a whole range of things yeah. the things that got us there because weidn't see them coming a didn't trefore adju, rea.

>> some of them we may he seen coming butobody wanted t ac >>ose: so how do you ke sure... because, i mean, you don't beeve we're turning... we're king a dramatic turn in our economic system in the way that financial markets wk and the way thatconomic system works. but thefore what do you do about the fact that we now have... we own0%... taxpays n 80% of a.i.g. taxpays own what percent of citicorp down the line. general motors. >> well, i tnk with a recovery in the economy even a rath slow rovery of the economy, a lot of that interventn gdual can be rersed. some of it the government will make money on the ones that we use to make money have alrdy been done. but they'll make some money on the othe things and they'll lose some money on some. but that... i don't ow how succsful chrysler and general motors wil be. but.... >> rose: chrysler's now bought up fiat. >> it wille a year or two to see wheer they canturn around or not.

so gradually these this ought to b withdrawn. wee discussed ad naeam with the knowledge thatll that intervention took place once and the intervention may take place another time which affects attitudes. i do not believe... althou, you know, this is distbing in tes of business attudes and confidce that, as you say, we're going t have dramatic change in th capitalistic system in the uned states. i doot believe that. bu it's going totake so time to get back to it. >> rose: bottom line are you optimiic aboutmerica? >>i'm an arican. but i think we've got lots of problems. i thght you were going to raise a question at the end here aboutrust and confidence in government generally which.... >> rose: well,that's where i'm going. >> ihink that has been a disturbing elent for me for a long tim worried about it and not much is done. how can we sit here knowing oe after e inauguration, almost a

year aer the electio a half of thegovernment positionsin washington under depy secretaryassistant secretaries e sitting there vact. and we do hit the treasury department ithe midst ofthe greatest isis anybody's bee into. >> rose: and the pentagon. >> and dependingpon it and who are those leaders depending on? they don't have responsible ficials in office ready to share the ld. and ople who have bn vetted. but that's a... it's. up and down theine in civil service it just doesn' have the attraction that it wasn't had and the government doe't make it's easy. it's hard go to work for governme. you thinthat's an easy thing to do and you're attractin a lot of people who can't compete, that's not right. a lot ofpeople coete very well and have an interest in th got and have an interest in the cotry, want to work for the governmentnd they find it so hard to get rough the recruitmt process, or the non-existing recruitment

process. >> rose: the vetting. >> ty get discourad and off they go. it not... i mean, the lack of kind of basic element trust... it's good to be skeptical about govnment. we ought to be skeptical. buat the bottom, you know, we need se trust that these officials are there, they're responsible, they're doi the best they can the interest of the country. a lot of that's been lost, this feeling that the lobbyists e controlling everytng and the amountf moneyinvolved is enormous, which it is. i mean, i... wn istarted out in government, k street didt exist. it was just a dirt road. it wasn't literally a dirt road but, you know, itwasn't.... >> re: it wasn't filled with lobbyist offic. >> it wast filled with he buildings houseobbyists. >> rose: do u think something something the presidt ought to be speing to? >> wl, i... yes. i wish he woul i don't thk it's been on the top hispriority list. >> rose: butt needs to be because it's part of the soluti?

>> think that is true. i think at's absolutely true. bulike everything else you know, the president can't snap his fingers and have i happen. but if he... i think leadership in this ea i important. animportant tohim political he's going to be around for a while and ifthe goverent's running better an has mo respect, it will be to h benefit enormouslyr whoever is in the leadership position. >> rose: in the same way he changed the imag of the united states overseas, u can change th image of government domestically. >> and this is because of 11 in part but partlybecause of the economic crisi,artly because of barack obama theris a chan ofthe image bei restor to a considerable degree. i thk there's a real opportunity. it w a sudden burst after 9/11 of ierest in goverent. itas a certain... well, a limiteburst i think recently but it gets frustrated becau you han't got the organation deal with it. >> rose:hank you for coming.

it's a measu to see you again. >> i hate to end up o that note. >> rose: well, it's theeality we hav >> rose: audrey tautou i here. she is one of france's most talented and best-known actresses, in 2001 she rose to international stardom with her role inamalie." americ audiences also know her from "dirty pretty things" and "t da vinci code." for helatest part she plays legendary digner coco chanel the years before she bece rich an famous. the film is caed "coco befe chan." he is a clip from the film.

>> rose: i am pleased to ha her ck at this table. welcome. >> thank you very much. >> rose: t's talk about co chanel and what ki of woman she was. >> well, sheas a ver unusual won for thathat time. she was so brilliantnd tough and eccentric. she was a rebel and very modn. rose: had y been asked to play her before? >> yes, few..a couple of times, yes. >> rose: and u always said no? >> yes, because i was not interested in the project

i didn't want t make like a movie out her whole life. i wanted to find, you kno a story ere we wouldo deeper in her pernality. and when i met aefontaine, e director, i really felt that she was,ou know, the perfect rson.... >> rose:o make this film. >> yeah, to make this film. >> rose: and she, in fact, said about youhat she couldn't... once you signed on she knew sh could make the film s ensioned. >> yes. >> rose: now why do you think she mit have said that? or whatid she have in mind? >> because i. you know, she told me that she was ndering if i wld be tough enough or... to play thi part and when i met her s said that i was looking at her with a veryold look and ry... with a lot ofaybe strength or autrity. >> rose: is tha you? >> no, no no! but i'mot a weak person. >> rose: so she looked at you

and thought shesaw that inou? >> well.. >> rose: y had that look. >> she's director, you know. >> rose: that's her talent, to be ae to see.... of course! >> rose:... seone who reflects those thing natally. >> yes. even if the person doesn't realize that she has that inside her. me, i wouldn't say abo me describe me as a tough or severe cold person. >> rose: it said about chanel that y read everythi, you saw all th films, you were obseive in your research. >> that'sot true. i wa kind of lazy. >> rose: really. >> yes. cause i did some research.... >> rose: and one thing is te about cocoa that shah nell, e s not lazy. >> , but i don't really like to rehearse and, you know, to know exactly how'm going to play a sce when i'm coming.

i did some work, but the prlem i had is that a much as i was geing some infortion, it stted to become contradictive because chanel was hing a lot her youth. >> rose: . >> so she was saying.... >> rose: made it up. >> ...a lot of lice. >> rose: y. >> so it w difficult to find the truth between all those informatio. so i ended by using more of the photoshich were mor or less static. >> rose: what wod be interesting toind out is why shwanted to hide he childhood. what made her embarrassed and want to hidethosehings? >> y, yes. well, i think it was auestion of maybe surving. she didn't want maybe peopl to complain or feel pity for her. she was very proud. i don't know. i don't reallyhave annswer

r that. >> rose:hat was her relationsh with etian. etienne. >> i think heealized that he coul.. he was the one who could en the drs of.... >> rose: so it was a pragmatic... >>eah, she was cver. >> rose: a clever decision. this is a n that can help me get where i wanto go a i will share lif with him but i will fther my ownmbitions? >> well, i think she dn't have any other solution. she wted t leaveulan, this little town in the ddle of france. she didn want to spender life that and have a miserable destiny and he was an opportity, you know? but ihink she was sincere and she always talked about him in very good terms sayg that he was a... ion't know the rd. rose: benefactor? >>es. so thewere very good friends so it was not only a

lculateive.... >>ose: she liked him but was not madlyn love with him. >> yes. >>ose: admir him but was not... >> yes, yes. >> ros her skill in fashion >> well, i think tt she.... >> rose: toake clothes natural nonef this corset stuff. >> i tnk shereally wanteto have the same freedom as a man, which is very very modern and alst a fantasy at that time. and i ink that the first option tha she has was to ee hewith clothes. so i don think that she had a general idea at the beginning for passion. >> rose: it was just freedom. >> yeah, i think she was her n laboratorynd she made cloes for herself top find the egality.. >> rose:equality. >>... th man. so i thi it's mehan shion. it's more than clots. >> re: and wt about the love of her life? cap ee?

>> wl, he has very important inflnce on her destiny. he was the first man that she was... that sa that she was different anthat her difference was a strength and she had be confidt. 's the first man who really nsidered her. so if she decid to follow this road of fashion, i think 's also because of him. so he helpedher to maybe see clearly what she could be. >> rose: and t impact of his death? >> she reay fell into th work. >> rose:he work. >> she was saying that when she was inlove she dn't want to go to work. she waa passionate woman and

wh he di i thi that it was e only thing she could rely on. >> rose: talking about earlier movies, "alie." >> yes. >>ose: what imct did that have on you and your career and all that you bame? >> well, i think it wa a kind of tsunami f me. >> rose: a tsunami? >> yes. >> rose: (laughs) in a gd way. >> yes, of course. >> rose: thi brought a huge wave that gave you opportunities? >> yes. but the celebrityame very suddenly. >> rose: yes. >> and i w not expecting that at all. >> rose:ere you prepared for it? >> no no. , no, no, no. i mean, no, bause i had never wished toecome famous so.... >>ose: you'd neve thought about it? >>o. i think i was mor scared than

hoping. >> rose: i've read contradicry ings about you. one was that y wanted to come to ameri and livend be a hollywood tress and another said that's the la thing you want. that you really wand to remain in paris a be arench actress. >> well, maybe i will make anothercontradiction. rose: all right,lease. >> whi i.. i'm betweenthose two tngs. you know? >> rose: you mean u go back and forth in your head? no, i mean that i like to come and visit and do a movie ce in a wle if i have the opportunit but m... i don't wa to work for that. and.... >> rose: you don'tant to work for that means you don't want to make what mmitment it' required. >> yes. >> rose: what is it that would be required that you don't want to do. >> well, i think i would have to end a... i don't know. it'shat i think, maybe i.

it's a very...or me it's a very foreignniverse so i really feel like a tourist. so f me ihink that i would have to be there and to meet peop and, i don't know, to show myself or may i'm wrong, t, you know, i'm not like that. but i.... >> re: so what are you lik what is life for you when you're not working? >> i like to enrich myself by discovering things. >> rose: reading and... >> ading and learning. >> rose: traveling. >> leaing to grow or to paint an writing. >> rose: oh, you'reainting? >> i'm learning. >> rose: how do you learn to paint? just by doing it or do you take lessons? >> no, i nt to a school a, you know, we're doing...'m doing sething. but for me i will never show anything to anybody. >> rose: until you're ready.

when you lookt coc chanel, were you not interested in. how how interested we you in the waryears, forxample? world wari for her >> yeah. >> rose: and what happened to her. >> yes. >> rose: and how she became this... after the war when she became sort of the great international fashion figure. did at interest you you were primari interested in a fi about the young coco chanel. >> no, i was interested in the young coco chanel becausefor me it's t most mysterious moment of her lif i really thi that whenou have such a brilliant brain it's very conce i was curious about understanding how she constructed herself >> ros why is she brilliant? at isrilliant about her? >> because she's... i mean, she's smart, she can... she's an observernd she knowsxactly

ho to use a situation a she s a. she was very ahead on r time. >> rose: some will makethe point that there ar people in history who igine what th want to be and become that person. >> she wanted somethin to happ in her life and i ink that she was feeling that she was dierent. she wanted to become somebody, that's for sur but i think that she didn't ally know what she wanted. she wishedto become a singer first andn actress but she was just... i mean, she was very ambitious and.. >> rose: right. congratulations. >> thanks. >> rose: great to hav you here.

co chanel, autry tautou. back in a moment, we'll lk in the film's director. stay witus. >>er digns chged the world of fashion and the empir s ilt still bears her nam but before sh was anel, she was coco.

>> re: we continue with o look at the film "coco chane the w the director anne fontaine.

e is a writer anddirector of ten ench language films. the test film is, of course, "coco before chanel." we want to talk to her about directing th film and aut how shepproached this andhy audrey tauu was the actress that she envisned to make the film that she wanted to make. welcome. you ju saw wt audre and i lked about and i quoted you as saying that you could make the film you envisioned once she was committed. >> thas true. >> rose: why. >>ecause i need to beeve that she exists. th gabrielle chanel yng could be rl for me, not onl an actress that is going to do an imitation ofher and to perform, you know? want somhing in chanel has to be there athe beginning because shhas this kind body, vy special, you can't undersnd anel, sheas the first androgynous woman.

>> rose: she w the first androgous woman. she was the fst fashion designer to crte pants, too. of course. and she had this taste o masculine clothes mid with feminine clothes. but she s... because she has this kind... very thin dy, very small like... almost anorexic for this period because women we very vol lop chew white house. very.... >> rose: rinesque orhatever. >> exactly. and you have to have an intensy on the eyes because all her education, it threw the way she looks the person, she looks at everythg, she's completely intuive. and i thought audrey when i met her, she was so incrible, concentratedshe looks at me behindy head, you know? i felt this very dark eyes on me and you know colette says that

chanel is a dark bo, aittle dark bow and that i felt. she's so frenc, arey and chanel. they are so french. they have thisind ofelegance, you know? and she's not beautiful, she's ique. it's more rare, i think. >> rose: the oious question is why you waed to stop theilm where you did. >> bauds i thought it wasan angle, of coursea point of view, it was tostop at th beginning ofhe cebrity. >> re: exactly. >> becau why to go ten years after or to years. >> rose: becauseo many interesting thins happened t he >> i know that, of cours >>ose: the lovs. >> yes. >> rose: the t nazi stuff. >> of course, th nazituff, it's whe she's more than 50, a years ol >> rose: so? >> yes, but i'm goingo explain you something the life chal has, 87 years old, okay. if you do a biopic, like an american, hollywoodiopic, all

thisime i think you can't go rough herdeeply. it was not my point of view. d also i want to be ee, you know? when she was young i am free becae there is no perfume, no things to doith the house of chanel. i n't completely expressthe correct... andlso she's more moving. she's vulnerable. and i think it's ieresting to seeow a lower cla girl like that, she's a courtesan, like a whor, she can manage the man, use them, and also be insecure d fragile underneath because they're tragedies on her life and you c't understand chanel old when she's with a cigarette, very bourgeois, you kno youan't understand. if y don know that, it's something i thk very intesting. >> rose: wt did you lrn about why she conantlydenied or made up he life? >> i think of crse as audrey says, it's a protection.

but so she wants expa her life. she says this sentence iike ry much because it's like a writer's sentee, she says "i invent my fe because i didn't like it." and she has to make fiction abouher life because the beginngs are so awful, you know? when she's abandoned by e father at ten yrs old whout no newat all, never he came back, he sd that he will come ck but never it hapned, she was soinsecure. but she had this temperament... temperament, you can say >>ose: yes, temperament is od. >> increble with determinion. her personality is amazing for is period, you know? cause it's very difficult be different all the te. 's very difficult to be very lowe class and to grow through the others. you know, e can... of course she's ke aeroine of a ball zach romance, you know? >>. >> rose: dyou think she ever

sort of belied herself that she had beco what she intded become or was she always the insecure person that she began? >> i think--t's my point of view, of crse, becse i met the last assistance of chane who lived with her the lhasa years that there was loliness at the en and a melancholy. never... s had, of course, very happy moments, but there is sothing vuerable for the end of her life and you know. maybe u know that wha she says the last day of her life. >>ose: which was? >> she was coming in the ritz tel where she lived and she ys to the man wh openshe or, ccierge "howare you today?" he says ery well, and you?" and she says "i'mgoing to di in seven or eight mines."

and itas true. ten minutes ter... she's a freak. but there is something s moving. even when she's old and wn you see theeginning, th youth, you undstand i think deeper howhis young farmer girl... she's complely wild. she has no education. it could painting, it could be something, but her talent, it's how to sew. but she... at the beginning she thinks that to sew it was for ordinary women, younow? and what i like in the way her vocation appears to her, it's very originecause sheever thought... she nev dreamedo be that, the stylist, brilliant stylt. she says that only style rains fashion e doesn't care about. >> rose: yes but sheas more interested in creating style rather than shion. >> exactly. d i think that' very timeless attitude bause it's for that reason when you see audrey

tautou in the movie wean't put her today, she will okay wi thisblack dress, with this.... >> ros exactly >> she's very modern, iredible modern. she's aind of feminist before, you know? >> rose:our directing, people haveade comparisons withuis malle and other >> y, that's true. andothers? sometimes it hapns in frae, you knowthat criticssay because i make ariticism of the bourgeois see and maybe subjects incorre like d cleaning, it was a very stnge story, you know, of couple that felt... fall in love wh a travesty and you know these kd of stories. and how... on the side, i don't knowow... the wordn english, but transgressive. >> ros have you decided on

your next movi smfrjts yes. >> rose: it is? >> it is a comedy with isobel rupert. >> rose: oh, terrific. >> and a manho'slaying in the coco chanel and after that doris lessing, also, an adaption. >> rose: tnk you for comg. >> tnk you. >> rose: congratutions on the film. >> thank you. >> rose: thank youor joining us. anne fontaine, the direcr of "coco fore chanel." see you tomorrow captioning snsored by ro communications captiod by media cess group at wgbh access.wgbh.org sturbed.

i can't go back. hey. yeah. [ laughs