>> rose: welcome to the broadcast. we begin this eveng with ken burns and his take o the magnificence of america's national par. >> this is the decration of independence applied to the landscape. it's a theirive that's so closely parallels the larger americantheirive that you can find in the crevicesf the park us. >> rose: we contin with part two of our conversation with former fed chairmapaul volcker >> my tax philosophy would if we can't deal th our expenditurload with the prent tax system we have to thk about changing tax system. when wthink about changing the

tax system, given the proble we started out lking about, you have to talk aut a tax that hits consumption. >> rose: conclude about a new movie about kokohanel with the star audrey tauto and director anne fonine. >> e first idea he had was to fr her with cthes so i don't think she had a general idea in the beginning for fhion. rose: it was ju freedom? >> yea i think she was h own boratory. >> if you die do a bio pick, like an amerin biopick, all this time i thi you can't through her deeply, it was not my poi of view and also want be free. when she wasoung i am free because there is no perfume no things to do with the house o chanel. i can't completel expre, and also s's moreoving, she's vulnerable. >> rose: magnificence of our national pks, the ideas of paul volkerand t life of kok

chanel when weontinue. captioning sponsored b rose comnications from our studios in new york city, this is arlie rose. >> rose: n burns is here. he is, as you know, the film maker who brought yo unforgetble documentaries about the civil war, about

baseball, and about jazz. his store janry steven ambrose once said more americans get their hiory from k bn reasons th any otherource. his latestilm ational parks, america's bestdea" is a e-hour look into the story of t parks as well ashe peopleho fought to create and prerve them. here's a lk at the documentary >> they are a treasure house of nature surlatives, 84 million acres of the mo stunning landscapes anyonhas ever seen. including a mountainso massive itreates itswn weather whose peak ris mor than 20,000 feet abo sea level, t highest point the continent a valley where a river

disappearsnto burning sands 282 feet below a level. theowest, driest, and ttest location in eountry. a larinth of cave long than any otr ever measured. and the deepest lake in the nati with the clearest water inhe world. rose: i am pleased to have ken burn back at table. congratulations and welcome back. >> thank you very mu. >> rose:et's just stewart this ory here. wherthe idea come from? >> the idea cam from one of my lo time producin partners dayton duncan. >> rose: who's right here. >> who's right there and is my best friend d we liveogether and have raed our fl flees this little village in new hampshire, i'vebeen there 30 years, he's be there 20. we've done filmon the landscape, wve done you ha? which we've elored this centraquestion of ours, who are we, through the landape. so thehistory of the west in

lewis and clark, mark twain on thfirst cross country automobile trip, a humorous ok caed horatio's drive, and it rehed the wednesday thi story because is is declaration of independencepplied to this landscape. it's a theirive that closely parallels t larger american narrative thayou can find in the crevices of the parks us. d that's what we're lking for. >> rose: in ct, you have said thatational parks a democracy applied to the landscape. >> yeah. i mean, for the first time in human history, human beings set aside land not for kings or noblemtor ry rich, as all landad been disposed in all of human history before tt, but for everybody an for all time. wee saved vast swathes of our natural landscape fo everybody. 're all -owners. they sortf represent a demoatic impulse and th could havenly come from a democratic people.

and as itturns out an unbeknownst toither of us when we started this project the ory is not ju a top-down on i'd say history d they'd go tey roosevelt, they're the and important but it's a bottom up storyhat's black and brown and red andellow and female and unknown asell as the faus white guys. this isn't a politically correct expetion but a naturay occurring diveity where people fell in loveith a place. >> rose: why could ant dictator create natnal parks? >> well, iyou were a dictator you'd create your huntin preserves or yr own space, it woul't occur to yo you do anythi else. now it been copied all around theorld but the initial imlse is me, mine. someone asked me about ts other day and said the movie "it'a wonderful life." we have a chce between ttersville and bedford falls. poersville bernie madoff, 's all for me. bedford falls reqres an understaing ofommonwealth.

thate're in this togethe part of a conship of larger things. so if there were no tional pa it is grand canyons would be lined wit mansions ofhe rich and we'd never seethe ew. if there werno natural parks, the evergdes would have lo sincbeen drained as a worthless swamp and paved over. if there werno national parks, that would be a gated community. if there were no nional parkss yellowste would be geyser world. i mean it's literally... this representsn me ways our bes selves. >> rose: let's look at this. yoll see some of the technique in this film. this is an exrpt from you ar the t firstnstallment in whi the national parks represe democratic values. >> what could bemore docratic than owning together the most nag siff sent place on your continue innocen think about europ in europe, the most magnificent places, the palaces, the park, are owned by aristocrats, by monarchs, by t wealy. in america, magnificences a mmon treasure. th's the essence of our

democracy. >> national pks, the writer and historian walce steger in onceaid, are the bt idea we've everad. >> it's not t best idea. the best idea came from thomas jefferson, that al han beings irrespecve of the accident of their birt are entitled to enjoy th aspirations of being lly complete and free man beings. that america's gift to the rld. but rit up there are the national parks. >> rose: as i was oking at that, i tay you wle we were watching it together, where do you get ese people? and thenou listen tothem and you said to me as we we coming out of that that somne said "this hato be scripted." you don't gi them the question you want tcreate the most real remembrancand observati you can. >> and then, as you do, listen. just listen. and then follow that line of thought. and so you listen to somebody like clay jhin kinson or

shelton johnson the ranger from yomite and somebody said t me thatas an actor, and i said no. and he doesn't see the thing. that wasade up on th spot. it's all extemporaneou that's, of course, the w it has to be. rose: it took you sen yes? >> we started the idea n years ago, tried figu out the form, wrestled the compcated russian novel of interconction ofll the plots togher and we've been shooting for x. and it's bn the most... mean we've... we've h to shoot from the gates of the arctic in northern alaska to the dry tortugas toawaii volcanos to acadia and all t places in between. at took a lot ofime. >> rose: why were you dwn to the 1h century naturalis >> charl, he's ascendednto my pantheon. he's up there with abraham lincoln and jace rinson, mark twain, elizabethade cady stanton. >> re: man, that's an impressive place tbe. >> weend to get to sbur laive es and hypeoles in

this businessf ours but he's a scottish born wanderer, w walks into yemite, gets a job cidentally and is able to sort of esce the specific gravity of h harsh peres be attorney upbringing, a father that beat him until atge is 1 he memorize it d entire new testament anmost of the old testament and could fin a face in these mouains, an american face sort of connected to emerso and thoreau that washe genius of notonly our political freedoms b the genius of our religious freedoms is th i cod find god i the cathedral in nature better than i could do that in a chedral built by man following s dogtic devotions. and liberated us all. he beg to write asoth of sort of holyan and a scientist. fall the same package. and his writings are as relevant today, if you pick him up, hes a poet. an it's like reading whitman. he's just fantastic. and he is the father of the park idea. he commands even in the second

episode where has to compete withheodore roosevelt, he commands t first two epides. he dies at t end of the second and his spirit is... sufficient fuses every moment of the rest of t series an he's got the first word andhe last word. >> ros i have a friend who... a busiss person, ver successfulmade a lot of money, retired, move to wyomi with his wife d bought a cabin, a nice cabin. he get up evymorning in the cabin and goesn seah of e beautyhat you caure here. >> rose: >> nure never gets it wrong. human beings and civilization quite ofte as we know, get i wrong. so much what we talk about at this table arlaws and o foibles. nature doesn't get i wrong. 's true. and when you submiyourself to ture, there's a paradox tt takes place. and these are the ly places where we can see pristine nature. whicis we are made to feel our

insignicance in the presence of such extraordinary places. and yet that makes bigger and connected to everythinglse. and so those us who are open to it, theearts... thearks rform a kind of ope heart surgery d you can go out tre d they feed somehing, some hunger that we all have, i think that maybe some of us have yet to awaken to, but they'rehere. and person after pson from every conivable backgrnd and station who have those moments, every one of theenal that we focus in the filmwere transford by thearks. every one of the people we interviewed told uabout their experien and each one of u whworked on the fm hadome personal expience where it awakened memoryr it just... just rocked us, rearranged our molecules. i ha no other wa to describe it than th. >> re: roll tape. >> one o the last js i had i yellowstone was deliring the ma up swmobile. there was in th wor's first natial park and i rember going downnto the valley.

there were bin crossing er the road, the,000 pound mammals crossing over the road a it waso cold it w about 60 below zero. and the bonhas they breathed, their exhation would seem crystal size in the air around them and there were these sheets these ropey strands of crystals kind of flowing down fm their breath and i sawthem and they just moved theireads and wer looking at me and remember thinking that if i had not been on that machine i wouldave ought i had beenhrust ful back into the price toe seen, back io thece age. and i rememb just stopping and turning it off because th only way you could shr to turn that thing off and i woul turn it off and i wou listen and i felt like this was t fit day. >> rose: what parks did you fall in love with? >> yosemite. had anxperience there where i told my comrades that this was the firs natural national park i'd been to, obviously lots of civil wa battlefields.

and aftethree or four days of working exhausting hours i should havfallen into a deep sleep, i couldn'tlyouldn't and i suddenly remembered at in 1959, a years a, wn i was six yearsld, my fatherook me to shan animous doe what national park. my mother was dyi of cance shenanah. our household was hell. he was not a go dad and one day he just took on ourfirst and only road trip together an i could sudden remember lying there awake in yemite what h hand felt like in mine. i could rememberhe songs that he sg to me that i've stoung my threeaughters, foetting... you know, ey're ony hard driveof personal mery but i'd forgotten where learned them. i remember every aspect of the drive, ery aspecof the hes he tk, he described all the trees and plants. and it was as if yosemite gave me this experien back that had not been represd, it had been forgotten. and so in my mind it' not so much that you've got the favorite pk as you have a park

at sponsored se something else. you know, we're all looking for one d one to equal three. our ratial world tells ust's two but we're looking forhe whole to be greater than the sum of the parts. anthe parks, i think, provide you with experices that sometimes ma it psible to have that kind of higher... theodore rsevelt appealedo e higher emotions of man kind. >> rose: are you making a political statent here? >> you know, it's so funny, people ask that all t time. we try s hard toust tell od story d yet you kw that history is n just abouthe st. story's the set of questions we in the present ask the past. and so it is necessarily a prix yourry, preoccupied with what's up now. it can help but be, cob,ly or consciously. and u can have film makers who can advocate somethingn a conscis way but you can realize as you look the ark of ts his they goes from 18 to is the 80, we back off. every single issue that we're

bating today is there. about presidential leadership, about the natu of democracy, about the role of government, about climatchange, about the impact of humaneings on ese pristine envonments, evything is recapitulated in the past. at we try to do is do it with the lhtest possible toucor no touch at allnd alw people to back and fl. evything that's happened before is hapning now. >> rose: and so you believe in a sens at if you... is ere something to be saidn terms of national parks that must be vigilant, that we mus create more? >> absutely. >>ose: that weust repo snesz >> yes, i think this is exactly right that theserepresent-- if you accept o idea that... thomas jefferson had the best idea butonce you create the couny you'd be hard pressed to find a better idea than ts on that we can findn therc of thia y-to-what we do right,hat the chois are.

this represent our stselves d i think the national parks are very much pointing us in the right direction. it goes back to the best decisions anthe stewdship of the land rlects very highly on who we are as a people. >> rose: oy, one st question but first thiseddy osevelt spee which will give you some of the kinds of themes we've be talking about. here i is. >> on april 24 at the end of roosevelt's visit,the entire population of the town of gardr, montana, gatred at the park's north entrance for a spial ceremony. a w arch to welcome visitors toellowstone was under construction and the preside had agreed topeak at the layi of the arch's cornerstone for the occasion, roosevelt reluctantly chged out of his camping clothes, put on a business suiand road through town to the awaiting owds. he watched as th cornerstone

was carefully put into pla then climbed to a rough platform on th stone work of the inmplete pillar and began t speak. >> t yellowstone parks something absolutely unique in the worlso far a i know. this park was created andis now administeredor the benefit and enjoyment of the people. the scheme of its preservation isoteworthy in it essential democracy. >> rose: magnificent. magnifent president, too, by the way. >> america >> rose: do you ow what's next for ken burns? >> we're updatingour baseba series. >> rose:ome on! >> there's a lot of water under the baseballridge. my red sox won the world series but you ve steroids, you have strike you have amazing yankee performance under joe torre. you have the brave, you have hiro, the rise of the latin play. i mean, it's just been a fantastically inresting period

and very much a mirror of our own life. wee ing a history of prohibition which talking about erything that we're talking abt now, about the role ofovernment and intrusion into our lives. we've so faln in loveith not only theaterut franklinhat we're trying tput them together as a family drama and as an extra added bonus we have eanor. so we haveo do vietnam. so aft say nothing to war after civil war and reluctantly being pulled into world wa ii we reaze that we have do vietnam. we're doing something the st bowl before those wnesses to the fit man made ecological catastrophe disappear superimposed in the depression. >> rose: what will you do on the seventh y. >> (laughs) >> ros >> well,we don't rest, we e... you know, if i were given a thousand years tolive, i wouldn't run out of topics on ameran htory. >> ros what'samazing people say about me and more appropriate to you, the say "aren't you going to burn out?" or tre's not going to be

enough ias to cover. i could do ts 24 hour a day wi interesting ias. i might not do it well but... >>nd we don't do it well somemes and that's okay, th's part of life. i spent today after four months the road promotingnational parks i spent the da workingn e editing room on prohibion. i turned to people and i said "i've been with the presint, i've been able to speako him and share with him stuff, ie been onational televisio, 80 citiesround the country, i've shown the thg, we've gotten great notices. i'm happier now working on ts film than i've been. it's just doing at we do every single day. there was nothing more thrilling than to yo make something that was not yet done slitly better. >> rose: quickly tell about showinit to the president. >> you know, we came in, we showed him about an hour's worth of stuff we selected those things that were abo, i thought, presidenti leadership. theodo roosevelt,ranklin roosevelt, later on in the '60s stewart udal uer kennedynd johnson. t we opened with beautiful footage of the hawai volcanos. now, we had thisn the editing

room worng on this for five years. we knew weere going to open with haii volcanos so there were in the screen rm, dton isn one side of t president, i'm the other, oureet are up on the ottomans, we're eati hi popcorn and tre's the hawaii volcanos ande just turns andgoes "boy, you guys are really sucking up toe." >> rose: (ughs) >> but mr. president >> rose: national parks america's best ias, an lustrated history is here i my hand with dayn,uncan and ken. it runs untilhe e of this week. it airing in twhour installments that run forsix nights. ken burns, remarkable arivist for who we are and what we aspire to be. >> rose: we ntinue this evening with part of two of our coersation with former federa reserve airman paul vcker talking about the fiscal health of theovernment and tax policy

seems to me that the conclusion is we probably needo think seriously about cuing on the expense side, we hay be... need to think abouthe revue side. >> i think we can't do it on the revenue side and... we've got to do it on the revenueide. it'soo early to do it t it's not to early to beg... you know, one possible approach talked about is a taxon carbon, tax on energy. that's a big revenue producer, if they're willing to do it. not very popular toay the least. >>ose: it's not popular because has the wordtax" in it but als because it mea thathe price at the pp go up to $3 and $4. >> same thing with cap a trade. that dsn't happenwith tax in it b the "wall street journal" makes sur it has the word "tax" in it. >> don: (laughs) >> (laughs) and they're friends of mine. and,f course, congss took that out. largely tookt out. >> rose: e operative philosophy abouthis administrati is we're not going to tax the middle-class, but we're going to tax peoe th make more than

$150,000 a year. w that a tax plosophy that you believe... $250,000 a ar. is that a taxhilosophy you beeve is the west way to go. >> i don't believe the old russell lawn philosophy, don't tax me, don't t you, t the guy behind th tree. and we can't findhe guy behind the tree. >> rose: russe long of the sete finance committee. yo didn'tnswer my questi. u just told me a cute story. >> (laughs) >> rose: (laughs what is your tax plosfy? you're ceainly not a supply-sider, are u? >> my tax plos philosophy wld be if we can deal with our expenditure ad with the present tax system we haveo think about changing the tax system. whene think about changing the tax system, giv the problem that we started outalking abou you've got t talk about me tax that hits consumption. >> rose: value-added. >> value-added is one. but a tax on carbon would be another. >> rose: right. >> tho are two b once. it doesn't he to be onef ose two but there aren't a that many choices.

but i think we ought to thi about the ctribution it can make to a better balance of e onomy, betr envinment for investment, better arrangement for maintainin our competive position those areall alities thatwith a vue added tax. value added tax is regresse potentiay. there are msures you can take to deawithhat. they're complicate but you can do it. but tt's not the only tax. i'd love t see the expenditures held in check so we don't have to dthat. >>ose: but can y dothat... you ink that's possible t ho expendites... >> i.... rose:i'm asking. >> >> i don't see anything the horizo rightow that suggests that's goingo happen. but that doesn'tean it's impossible. don't see anything onhe horizon right now that ss we can raise taxes, eher. but i.... >> rose: let me close wh this. you d i talked about this a numberf times.

we he seenan economy i trouble and we have see government called on to rescu the economy by taking interventionist positions in companies in t financial sector,nsurance sect, which might be the same, r own bill seor. first was it all necessary? >> well, i tnk it was basically necessary but the right questi is what should have weone earlierto prevent ? >> rose: and t answer is? >> well, i think that was... i think we were not alert. we were not.... >>ose: exactly,es. >> we were not art about the consumptn thing. we were t alert about th housing boom. we were not alert abo subprime mortgas. we weren't alert about credit default aps. >> rose: a whole range of things yeah. the things that gous there becauswe didn't see them comi and didn't therefore

just,eact. >> some of them we m have seen comingut nobody wanted toact. >> rose: so how do you make sure... becaus i mean, you don'believe we're turning... wee making a dramatic turn in our economic system the way that financi markets work and the way that economic system works. buttherefore wt do y do about the fact th we now have... we own 80%... taayers own 80% of a.i.g. taayers own what percent of citicorp down the line. general motors. >> well, i think with a recovery in the economy, even a ther sl recovery of the economy, a lot of that interntion gradual can reversed. some of it t government will make moneyon. the ones that wesed to make money havelready been de. but they'll ma some moneyon the her things and they'll lose some money some. but that... i dot know how succesul chrysler and general motors will be. but.... >> rose: chrysler's now bought up fiat. >> it ll b a year or two to see wheth they can rn around

or not. so gradually these thingought to be withdrawn. we'v discussed ad nausm with the knowledge that a that tervention took place once and the intervention may takeplace another time whichffects attitudes. i do not believe... although you know, this is disturng in termof business attides and confiden that, as yousay, we're going to have dramatic change in the capitalistic system in the unit states. i do n believe that. but it's going to ke some time to get back to it. >> rose: bottom line, are you optimist about arica? >> m an amecan. but i think we've got lots of oblems. i thout you were going to raise a question at t end here out trust and confidence in government generly which.... >> rose: well, that's where i'm gog. >> i tnkhat has been a disturbing eleme for me for a long time. i worried about it and not much is done. w can we sit here knowing onc after thinauguration, almost a

year aft the election and half of the vernment positions washington under deput secretary sistant secretaries arsitting there vacan and we do hit in the treasury department in e midst of e greatest cris anybody's been into. >> rose: and the pentagon. >> and depending un it andho are those leaders depending on? they don't have responsible ofcials in officeeady to share the loa and pele who have bee vetted. buthat's a... it's... up and down the le inivil service it just doesn't have the attraction that it wasn'thad d the government doesn make 's easy. it's hard too to work for government you think at's an easy thing to do and you're attracting a t of peopleho can't compete, at's not right. a lot of ople compe very well and havean interest in thisot and haven interest in the couny, want to work for the government a they findit so hard to get thugh the recruitmenprocess, or the

non-existi recruitment process. >> rose: the vetting they get discraged and off they go. it's not... i mean, the lackf kind of basiclement of trust... it's good to be skeptical about goverent. we ought to be skeptical. but the bottom, you know, we need somtrust thathese officials are there, they're sponsible, they're doing the best they can inhe interest of the country. a lot of that's been lost, this feeling that the lobbyists ar controlling everythi and the amount o money volved is enormous, which it is. i mean, i... whe i arted out in government, k street didn't exist. it was just a dirt road. it wasn'titerally a dirt road, but, you know, it sn't.... >> ros it wasn't filled with lobbyist offices >> it wasn' filled with hug buildings toouse lbyists. >> rose: do yo think something something the presidenought to be speakg to? >> wel i... yes. wish he would. i don't thin it'seen on the top ofis iority list. >> rose: but i needs to be because it'sart of the

solution >> ihink that istrue. i think th's absolutely true. but ke everything else, you know, the president can't snap his fingers and have it happen. but if he... i think leadership in this ar is important. and portant to m politically he's going to be around for a ile and if e governmt's running better and has more respect, it will be to his benefit enormously o whoever is in the leadership position. >> rose: in the sameay he changed the image of the united states overseas, you can change the image of government domestically. >> and this is because of 9/11 in part but partly because of the economic csis, partly because of barack obama ere is a chce of the imageeing reored to a considerable degree. think there's a real opportunity. was a sudden burst after 9/11 interest in gernment. it was a certain... well, a lited burst i think recently but it gets frustrated bause yohaven't got the oanization to deal with it.

>> re: thank you for coming. it's a msure to seeou again. >> i hate end up on that note. >> rose: well, it's t reality weave. >> rose: audy tautou is here. she is one of france's mo talented and best-known actresses, in 01 she rose to international stardom th her role in "amalie." amican audiences als know her from "dirty pretty things" and "thea vinci code." for her test part she plays legendary desnercoco chanel the years before she becamrich and famous. the film is call"coco befor chanel heres a clip from the film.

>> rose: i am pleased to have her ba at this table. welcome. >> thank you very much. >> rose: les talk about coc chanel and what kind of woman she was. >> well, she w a very unusual womafor that tt time. she was so brilliant a tough and eccentric. she was a rebel and very moder >>ose: had you been asked to play her before? >> yes, a few... couple of times, yes. >> rose: and yo always said no? >> yes, because i was not

interested in the project. didn't want toake like a movie abt her whole life. i wanted to find, you know, a story whe we would g deeper in her persolity. and when met ann ntaine, th director, really felt that she was, you know, the perfect person.... >> re: to make this film. >> yeah, to mak this film. >> rose: and s, in fact said about yo that she couldn't... once you signed on she kneshe could make the film she envisioned. >> yes. >> rose:ow why do you think she mighhave said that? or what d she have in mind? because i.. you know, she told me that she was woering if i wou be toughnough or... to play this partnd when i met her she said that i was looking at her with a very cd look a very... with a lot of mbe strength or authoty. >> rose: is that you? >> no, no, no! but i'm n a weakperson.

>> rose: so she looked at you and thought she w that in y? >> well.. >> rose: youad that look. >> she's a director, you know. >> rose: that's her talent, to be ablto see.... >>f course! >> rose:... somne who reflects those things naturly. >> yes. even if the person doesn't realize that sheas that inside her. me, i wouldn't say about me or scribe me as a tough or seve cold perso >> rose: it is said abo chanel that you read everhing, you saw althe films, you were sessive in your research. >> that's n true. i was kind of lazy. >> rose:really. >> yes. beuse i did some research.... rose: and onehing is tru about cocoa that shah nell, sh wanot lazy. >> no, but i don'treally like toehearse and, you know, to know exactly how i going to play a scene when'm coming.

i did some work, but the probm i had is that as much as i was gettg some informaon, it stard to becomecontradictive because chanel was hidg a lot, her youth. >> rose: ah so she was saying.... >> rose: made itp. >> ...a lot of lice. >> rose: yes >> so it was difficult to find the truth between all those informations so i ended by using more of the photos wch were more oress static. >> rose: what woul be interesting to fd out is why she nted to hide her childhood. what made her be embarrassednd nt to hide ose tngs? >> yes yes. well,hink it was a qstion of maybe survivg. she didn't want maybe people to complainr feel pity for her. she was very proud. i don't know. i don't really ve an awer

fothat. >> rose: wt was her relationshipith etian. etienne. >> i think he rlized that he could. he was the one who could op the doo of.... >> rose: so it was agmatic... >> yh, she was cler. rose: a clever decision. this is a ma that canelp me get where i want t go and i will share life with himut i will furer my own aitions? >> well, i think she di't have any other solution. she wand to leave man, this ttle town in the mile of ance. she didn'tant to spend h life that and have a miserable destiny and he was an opportuny, younow? but i tnk she was sincere and she always talked about him in very good terms sayin that he was a... i d't know the wo. >>ose: benefactor? >> y. so they re verygood friends

it was notnly a caulateive.... >> re: she liked him but was not madly i love withim. >> yes. >> re: admired him but was not.... >> yes, yes. >> rose: her skill in fashion. >> well, think tha she.... >> rose: to me clothes natural none othisorset stuff. >> i thi she ally wanted have the samereedom as aan, which is very, very modern and almo a fantasy athat time. and i thk that the first option that she has was to fr her th clothes. so i don'think that she had a general idea at the beginning for passion. >> rose: it wasustreedom. >> yeah, i think shewas her ow laboratory a she made cloth for herself top find t egaly.... >> rose: equality. >>... wi man. so i think it's more tn faion. it's morehan clothe >> ros and wha about the love ofer life?

cap ell >> wel he has a very important influee on her destiny. he was the first man that she was... thasaw that she was differenand that her difference w a strength and she d to be coident. he's the firstan who really considered her. so if she cided to follow thi roadf fashion, i tnk it's also because of him. so he helped her to maybe see clearly what shecould be. >> rose: and the impact of his deat >> sheeally fell intothe work. >> re: the work. >> she was saying th when she was in love she didn't want to goo work. shwas a passionate woman and

when hedied ihink that it was thonly thing she could rely on. >> rose: talking about earlier movies, "amie." >> yes. >> re: what impa did that have on youand your career and all that you bece? >> well, i think it was a kind of tsunami fore. >> rose: a tsunami? >> yes >> rose: (laughs in good way. >> yes, of course. >> rose:his brought a huge wave that gave u opportunities? >> yes. t the celebrity came very suddenly. >> rose: yes. >> and i was not expecting that at all. >> rose: we you prepared for it? >> no, no. nono, no, no. i mean,o, becse i had never wished to bomeamous so.... >> re: you'd never thought about it? >> n.

i think ias more scared than hoping. >> rose: i've read contradicto thgs about you. one was that youanted to come to americand live a be a hollywood acess and another said that's the last thing you wanted that youeally wante toemain in paris and be a fnch actress. >> well, maybe iill makeanother. >>ose: all right, pase. >> which is. i'm between ose tw this. you know? rose: you mean yo go backd hea >>o, i mea tha i likeo come and visit and do aovie on in a whi if i have the opportunity, but i'.. i don't wanto workor that. and.... >> rose: you don't wt to work for that means you don't want to make what coitment it's yesed. >> rose: what is it thatwould be required that you don't want to do. >> well, ihink i would have to spd a... i don't know. it's wt i thi, maybe i..

it's a very... f me 's a very foreign uverseo i ally feel like a tourist. so far me i tnk that iould to be there and to meet peoplend, i don't kw,to show myself or maybe i'm wrong, bu you know,'m not le th. but i.... rose: so what are youike? what is life for you when you're not working? >> i liketo enrich myselfy discovering things. >> rose:reading and... >> ing andearn lg. >> rose: traveli. >>earning torow or to paint and writing. rose: oh, you'renting? >> i'mearning. ros how doou learno paint? just by doing it or do you take lessons? >> no, i we to a school and, you know, we'redog... i doing somhing. but for me i will nev show anything to anybody. >> rose: until you're ready.

when you look a coco chanel, were you not interestedn... how w interested were you in the war years, for example? world war ii forer. >> yeah. >> rose:and what happened to her. >> yes. >> rose: and how she becam war e me sorof reatnafashnigurwn yo wanterted inthe ve ccernwain it' b. mea,ant? , e can... she an ob ectly how to use situatio andhe has a..she was very ahead on hetime. >> rose: some will make e

point that there are people in history wh imagine whathey want t bend become that person. >> she wanted someing to ppen in her lifend i think that she was feeli that she she wanted to becomesomebody, that's for sure. relyknow what she wanted. she wished come singer first and a actress but she was just... i mean, she was very ambitiou and.. >> rose: right. congratulations. >> thanks. >> rose: great to have you here. cocohanel, autry tautou. back in a moment, wel talk in the film's director. stayith us. >> her designschanged the wod of fashion and the eire she

built still bears herame. but beforshe was chanel, she wa coco.

>> ros wcontinue with our ok at the film "coco chanel" the w the director anne fontaine. shis a writer and rector of ten frch languageilms. e last film is, of course "coco before chanel." we want to talk to her about directing thisilm and abo w she aroached this and w audrey tauto was the actress

that she envisiod to make the film that she wanted to make. lcome. you just saw wha audrey and i taed about and i quoted you as ying that you could makehe film you envisioned once she was mmitted. >> that'true. >> rose: why. >> bause i need to belie that she exists. thatgabriell chanel you could be rea for m, not only an actress thats goingo imitation of r and to peorm, you know? i want sometin chanel has to be there at t beginning because she s this kind of body, ver special, you can't el, sh w th first androgynous woman. >> rose: she washe first androgyns woman. she was the fir fashion designer to crea pants, too. >>f course. and she had this taste of masculine clothes mixe with feminine clothes.

but she wa.. because she has this kind... very thin bo, verymall like... almost anorexic for this periodecause women wereery vol lop chew ithouse. very.... >> rose: rubesque or wtever. >> exactly. and you haveto have an intensiton the eyes because all her education it threw the way she looks at the person, she looks at everythin she's completely intuiti. and i thought audreywhen i met her, she was so incredle, concentrated, e looks at me behind mhead, youknow? i felt this very dark eyes me and you kno colette says that chan is a darkbowl, a little darkowl and that i felt. she's so fnch, audrey an chel they a so french. they have is kind of elegan,

you know and she's not beautiful, she's unique. it's more rare, i think. >> rose: t obvious question is why yowanted to stop t film where you did. >> bauds thought it s an angle, of cose, a pointof view, it was to stop atthe beginninof thecelebrity. rose: exactly. >> bause why to go ten years after or to years. >> rose: because so many interesting thins happen to her. >> i kw that, of crse. >> rose: tovers. >> yes. >> rose: the t nazi stuff. >> of cosethe naz stuff, it'shen she's mor than 50, a yearold. >> rose:o? >> yes, but i'm going to expin u something. the lifehanel has, 87 yea old, okay. if youo a biopic likan erican, hollywood biopic, a is time i thinkou can't go through her deeply. it was not my poinof view. analso i want to be free,ou know? when she was young i am free cause there is no perfume, no thin t of

chanel can't completely express the correct...nd also she's more moving. she's vulnerable. and i think it's interesting to see how a lowerlass girl like that, she's a courtesanlike ore, she can manage the man, use them, and also b insecu and fragile underneath becau they're tragedies on her life anu can't understand chanel old wh she's wh a cigarette, ry bourgeois, youw? yo can't understand. youon't know that, it's something think very teresting. >> ros what did you learn about why sheonstantly denied or made upher life? >> ithk of course as audrey says, it's a protection. t also she wants to pand her life. she says this sentence i like very much because it's like a writer's stence, she ss "i becaus theife because iidn'

bennings are so awful, you know? when s's abandoned by the father at ten years o without noews at all, never he came back, he said that will ce back but neveritappened, she was so insecu. but e had ts temperament... temperament, you canay? >> rose: yes, temperament i good. >> iredible wi deteination. her personality is amazing for period, you know? because it verydiict to be differe all time. it very difficultobe very wer class and to thrgh the others. shs li a heroine of ball zachmance, you know? >>. >> roso you thinkhe ever sort o lieved hselfthat she d come what sheen to or was sayshe insecure peon thatbegan? >>his my point of view, of coue, becau i met

e la sice of chanel who lived with her the lhasa ars th there was loneness at thd an alaomtsut t g vulnab f end ofer life and you know... maybe yoknow that what she says the lastay of herife. >> rose: which was? >> she wa comg the sayso the mano opens door, concierge "ho are you today?" heay "very well, and you?" and e says "i'mgog todie in seven oin." an was true. ten minutes later... she's a frk. but there something so moving. even when she old and when y setheth youin how this

she'pletel ld. shhas ducation. it could be paintingit cld be something, her talen, 's h to s. borry kouhesh ctd this.... >> rose: exaly. >> she'sery modern, incdible modern. e's a k inist before, u kn? >> rose: yr directing, people have me comparisons with ls malle and others. >> yes that's true. and hers? sometimes it happe in franc you know, at critics y because i make a cticism of the bourgeois see and maybe subjects incorrect like dry cleaning, it was a very strae story, you know, of aouple that felt... fall in love wit a avesty and younow these kin stories. and how... on the side, i don't know h... the word inglish,

but transgressive. >> rose:ave you decided on ur next movie smfrjts yes. >> rose: it is? >> it is a comedyithsobel rupert. >> rose: oh, terrific. >> and a man who's pying in the coco chanel and after that doris lessing, also, an adaptaon. >> rose: tha you for comin >> tha you. >> rose: congratulaons on the film. thank you. >> rose: thank you f joining us. anne fontaine,he directo of "coco bere chanel." see you tomorrow captioning spoored by roseommunications captioneby media acss group at wgbh access.wgbh.org sturbed.

i can't go back. hey. ye. [ laughs ]