>> so wh we learn from this is some insight in terms of treating cancer through the genetic basis of the mutated cell. >> correct. this is really t first clear example where let me back up. cancer cells are cplicated. ey have many mutations. you can make arug maybe against one mutation, but what's is the chce that'seally ing to wk. the tumos going to outsmart that drug. what's remarkae in this case that didn't happen. used t term addiction. the tumors are addicted to the mutations which call oncogenes. and so you can, if you undetand the wing well enough, you can identify,or lack of a betr word the

aclles heelin which this themhas been played o we come at it wh other drugs. >> charlie: what is the cancer tt this theme is bei pled out. >> thetwo which ar most exciting is lung cancer whi everyone uerstands is a fatal illness. there are roughly 10to 15% of patients can lungancer in the chts and you're. there's a again that calls cml and anoth dg that inhibits that protein which is called terciva and w have patients coming in with lung cancer to find out i they have that mutation or not. if they do theyo on terciva >> charlie: is this coopation at some level from big or little and research. te me more about that in terms of how that process may open up

new opportities. >> i thinkrom my wor it was cricalbecause when you look at the projects of armaceutical companies, there's not a human amount of intelltual power on that. from all the thin you need to put together. so you need to bring in expertise that you don't have. so let's tak a project the way i met brian was i srted collaborating with the dana farber institutend this was to bring technogy where we could express these enzyme large panels of the for testing. and you know,ithout tha exchange betweeading edge research and academia and plication of it in industry, it's very hard to build allhis yourself. isisast amountsf

experiments that need t put to bear for thesepplied projects. charlie: the third partof this equaon is government. >>es. >> charlie: government approval. >> yes. >> charlie: how does that come in. >> it's a shining example how govement can work. it was the fastest fda approval the drug on record fromhe time- >> charlie: fr years, how manyears. >> it was three yrs, less than three ars from the initial patienon a clinical trial to approval. but the pkage that was sent was from febary of 2001 to may 2001. 11 weeks in review. st drugs will take awhere from six months to aear under review before the fda wl approve them o not. so 11 wes. and it was an unprecented announcement by then tommy tomson been and seval other dignitaries, the hd of nci was there as well, talking about how

e fda can work wn you present them wh drugs that work we. >> and some regulation the fda put in place le accelerated approval, whicreally worked for thisrug. >> the thirdoint there is th ience that explained why it waworking was so sol that it was a completely nvincing story. >> charlie so therefore th're willing to put it on a st track, they're willing to -- >> not only could we understand why itas working,e could understand y it stopped working in certain patients. the science underlyinthis makes so mh sense thatthe data was completelconvincing. >> crlie: give me the landape of cancer. today we're talking about genetic mutation. >> we're talking about a theme matching t right patient with the right drug. we're talkg about instead of taki your car to a mechanic and nothaving alue what's broken, havi them lift the hood, look at e eine and figure out what's part's broken and replace the broken pt and

x your car. 're talking about lking insidef a canr cell, figuringhat's driving the growth of . yeit growing and growing and growing to cause thatumor in shutting down that part specifically. the resus with this inhibitor in melanom gleevec-like result there's 10, 1 of lung ccer patients who are just starting to see tt we' turning the tied againscancer with this new padigm. we're moving from an eraf non-specific chemotherapy to very prehe'sly tgeted drugs that are more effective and less toxi >> charlie: thas the story >> that's t real sry on gleevec. >> charlie: what' the big answered question about cancer? >> o is why do cells get it i the first place. why i get a mutation a you not. know -- >> charl: what are possible swers for tha >> we know tha certain environmental exposures

smoking, obvious, exposure to chemotherapy forreast cancer n cause aatient to get leukemia later. damaging t dna in blood cells. t we don't kw why most measures don'thave these exposures. it uld be just aging. cells as they divide and get older, it ppens in copying the dna a mutation is crted. if it's in the wrg cell that's probably what happens. >> charlie: go aad. >> now charlie's aolutely ght. it's absoluty clear that the number of the people get cancer increa with age. that's absolutely clear. what's becomin even me clear is tha some of the programs that are set very early on, even at bih may prediose is and there being certain genic abnormalities. we know f example the warner to exposessed to breas cancer. some arein their0's and 's.

there arother similar sts of change that maypredispose men or women in cancer later in life. again in this genomirevolution we're ing to begin to understand that. if they thin beyond targeted therapies to pvention, we'll actually get an area of targeted preventn wherewe under what somebods individual genetic risks are to develop cancer and they should be able to targe those. that may be 30 to 50 years later but that revolution is coming. can see hints of that already. >> charlie: so the more everybody s someapping of theiown personal genome a developments cald collateral developmt may very welcome the a time i which y kn tha you have a jaw theyic predispotion to some nd of ncer. you can bin to think this i rms of prevention by being ab to target a particular drug, particular treatmen >> that's exactlright. >> charlie so we look forwarin thiscentury to e

what? >> i firmly believthat we'll be able to look forward to that in this ceury. >> charlie: are you looking forwd to the ratification of death from cancer. >> probably not entirely. and the alogy i've used is to infectio disea. if you look back a huned years, lif expectancy inhis country was 47 yrs. now we're in the mid 70's. mo of those havecome from eradication of treatabily of infection. and that's been with antiotics, that's been with publ health measus and vaccations. but still deal with infections hiv has reared. we now have conces about swine u. haven't eradicated infectio but they're not the deay disease they were a century ago. this century wl do the same thing for cancer. >> chaie: thank you. congratulations to eac of you. >> thank you. thank you very much. >> charlie: back a mont. stay witus

>> charlie: bobibson and regg jackson are here. they're two of baseball's all time great. both a known for their intimidating presentsnd poise under treme preure. they are mvp's. jackson's five home runs inhe 1977 world series pass orlt yankee forkower. gibson is widely consideredne of the great accomplishmts in sports hiory. together they ha written 60 feet six inch a hall of fame pitcher and hitr talk about how the game plays of played. i'm pleased to hav them both back at this table. how did thisome about? whose idea was this? >> actually, it w they contacted me and askede if i was interestedn doing a book and at the time we didn't ow

what weere going to do. and i said y. we came up with this idea, double day came u with the idea, i'd like to do something with a hitter and a pitcher. who wld you consider. and we have seval names of different ople. weidn't have rgie's nameon there. i said how about reggie jackson. oh, you couldn'tget him. i said oh yes i can. so i called him reggie i'm gng to do ts book and he ss i'm in. and that'she way itent. >> charlie you only hi againshim in anll stars me and at happened. >>ell that's a pretty good story. charlie: i know. >> there was a time bere tha an i'll let bob tell you that story about in 19. 9 -- i'll let

him ll that story. the all-star game s in atlanta and there was always a press conference before that, and bob ha pitched on sunday. and heas gng, he was announced that he was going t tch on tuday and heasn't hay about it. he had wanted to,his focus was on winning. and doing things for the team. ladies and gentlemen i pitche on sunday, i should have a couple days offecause when we staragain on wednesday i'm probly going to pitch again or maybe my turn ishursday. tuesday' too qui. he wasn't happy about it. and so we all knew bob and his reputation and he always had an intidating factoroing with him. he threw high 90's and inside. if you moved you wouldn't get t. he said i wasn't throwing at him he moved intohe ball. first time up iet a double. he han a slide h it offto right cent field and iround

seco basend i sily turn -- i slowly turnhis way and look out under e bill of my cap and he'sooking either outat me or thscore board or somhing where the ball hit. an i immiately just turned around like th andooked away from him. charlie: why did you do that. >> i didn't want to get punished. i didn't want to walk intone of those pitches the xt time i was coming up. charlie: is that what would he happened. he looked at you in a wrong way ke i got you, yo can't -- >>n an all-starame there's pretty good cnce i wouldn't ve faced him ain anyway. but you ner know. i may have seen him i a wor sees or some otr time the i don't forget tngs. >> charlie so everybody that got hit by you, you intentionally meant to hithem. >> no. i wld venture to say that probably 70% othe gathat -- guy that i hit i wast throwing. >> charlie: so 30% youere. >> i had to protect tm. they would knock some go down and hit em. i was pitching mebody was

going to get it, it was just that simple. lot of times when you pitch inde, you throw the ball hard and you pitch inside, you're gog to hit guy without really trying, you ow. i can say that i never missed anybody i was throwing a [laughter] charlie: so when reggi toldou, what did he say toyou about, you know, if you hit me. >> n you didn't say anythg about tting anybody. came up to me and he says i'm reie jackson. i said yes, i know you, i'm bob. he says i understand you like to pitch inside. i said yes i pitch inside a lot. he says well you ever pitch inside to me i'll com out and get you. i id well we'll st rolln the dirt, won't we. he just laughed and walked away. >>harlie: i think i asked you that before b where does at come from. >> guess ias bor wit it. >> charlie: reall >> yes. i told reggiewhen we had a real

convsation a couple weeks ago. i had a brother josh. and josh was mean. >> charlie: josh was mean. >> youtalk about intimidation, intimidated me. at one time i was playing srt stop and the ga hadn't started but i was going to be the short stop andeere in somewhe in kansas playing on a little field and the whe thing. he hit me a hard ball, i picked it up and threw it to first and it bouncedp and hit me in t eye. blood was going over where. josh cameut and saidet me look at it. he called auy over with band-aid, put it on there and sa go on back out. here we go again. i was abo 12 yea old, i wanted to cry and go home. but he kindf made me tou beuse he expected like most people, th expect affection

th everyone and themlves. he expecteperfection out of me and he wanted me to be better an everybody else out there. and he wouldn't accept athing ss. >> chaie: so it gre inside of you. >> it did, it did. tell -- >> charl: tell me wh we dot know about pitching. >> people think they know a lot about the game. there's a lot more thinking ing on between the hitte and the pitcher an people realiz theyhink the guy throws rea ha and he just goes in and gets guys out orthe guy's a pretty good hitter and he just swings when he's lucky. no. the's a lot of thinkg and lot of cat and mouse goingn. when you're in the game for any leth of time,you know,the youn kids n't really undetand that because you have to be in there and you have to get embarrsed a couple times before youeally learn h to pitch. but it's le a chessgame.

i ma pitch to him one me and next me i may not. dependon the situati, wh is hitting behind him. so there's a lot of thinking ople don't realize is going on out there. >> charlie: tell me wh you think abouwhen you're at bat and you're facinsomebody as good as gibson. >>ell, the first timeou'd face him, you'd try to figure out his reputationnd what he do on the mod. afr you face him forour o five tim, three fou timesnd in the major leaes, bobby had a career of 16, 17 years. >> 17 years. >> and i had a career at 20. so if 're in the same leae, after it's allover, i'm going to have 0 more, mbe 200 bats against him. and i'm going to understd his successesand unrstand where he goe at the same time in certa situations, is gng to go to s bread and butter, what he likes the best. and that's against me, it would

be a ft ball away or it would a sliden. he threw wh they called a curve ball in between a cur ball and a slide. we called it a hard slurve, in between, a har pitch. in certain situations, you could look forertain things. he would know what he was going to throw me, i would kw what he's going to throw me a it would get t a point t where maybe th game's on the line, h esn't have any pce t put me, say okay i'm cing after you. and the times you do have th, you know, david and goliath battle, if you will. if you have yr time in t me like he a i both ha, you pret much know what's going to happen when we go after each other. may go away and not pitch to me. he may try to pitch on me and touch the rner or something like that. but if heound a hole, place where he cou get me out, if

you willhe would stay on it until i hit it. it may be in, i may a slider. for me i ran up ainst a har slider. like pitchg to a left hand hitter. >> charlie: what wasour sweep. >> awafrom me. >> charl: high or low. >> it didn't matter long as it gets away. if it getsown too lowt's hard to get out o the ballpark. i wanted the ball ay from me and you cldn't throw it hard enough. was in a situaon where his brea and butter is away and he's going tcome there and pull his h down and touch hh 90's and say all right my fend if you can hitit, gohead because here it is. >> charlie: wha was it that made you mr. october? >> you know, i've been asking some pple, in fact i talked to bob about ts just couple eks ago, i think the's, the common thread is som kind of

dna that runs through pple at makes them ge the job done i thinkit happens at a young age in a person. i know for meit s my fher that look ggie i don't nt any exses, i want y to get the trash taken outside. don't tell me it was raining o o cold, don't tell m it wa snowing, get it de. and so i took that same attitude toward sports en i got into it and i got that from my dad in taing to bob, something happened to him at a young age, with his brother, it was no excuse, i don't want to hear anything, t it done is the way dad talked to me about it. and bohad his vsion from the his brother josh. >> charlie: whas always been sd about yous this sort of broodin doou accephat. >> no. >> charlie: okay. cond thing that's always bee said about you is intimidation. >> iimidation comes fm the

outside. comes within. thlast thing i was trying to do was intimidatpeople. first of all, iook like i look and people see me, wha are you mad about. well i wasn' mad until now, you kn. it's just the way i loo anso people think that iook mean. ok, that' good. many but i got accused of starg a hitr down. in truth i wore glasses off th eld. i had a hard time seeing the signs and things. the last tng in my mind was to intimidate somody but the hitter comes upthere and automacally he sees i'm trying to intimidate hior whatever. that's the way i seit. >> charlie: o you think it worked for you. >> well it worked but it didn't work for me but i didn't know. if d known i would have been nastie yes. >> charlie if someone would

come out anday bob, it's time to go think weeed to make a chan here; would y accept that. >> i had to. >> charlie: when he id it's timeo go, you wouldo. >> yes. if he says h doou feel, if he says how do you feel, what do you meanare you still throwing good. well, who is in the bullpen. we got s and so down there, i'm fine >> charlie: ratr than have somebody come inand say i'm fine. >> yes. >> charlie: what cotterer comes out and said you're not geing the sigl you ed to change it. >> t's a funny guy tiwould tell me a lot of thing that i already kn. you kn. there's a mann first, you know, givee a shot at him. and i would laughnd i'd say tim, y're not ing to throw him out away and i'm not wasting any pches and he would curs at me. one time we had a man on fit and third.

and thereere they outs. and timcame outnd says max is coveri second base and he says we're goin to go for two i said no we're not. if a bottom is coming at me i'm going me. he says earlin the game you can't play likehat. i sa i'm playing le that gauze you score one orwo a game and m not giving up an extra run. so if it comes back to me look fort. and he's storm o. >> charlie: all right roll tape. this is the conversation with tim. what's the worse thinghever said to you. >> i guess the line was what ar you doing out here. get on ba behind the plate. the only thinking you know about tching is tt it's hard to hit. rney schultz story. he was a knuckle ball pitcher. he hated going out to theound withibson there becaus bob woulday barney, u thre a knuckle ball. i throw fa balls. i n't throw knuckle ball so

how can you help me. one nighin philadelphia, in the second inning, a re gibson start,e had given oppositn or sev earned rs tough one and o, right, right. d red sent barney u to take gibson o ofthe game. and bary, it was an interminable te. i was playing firstthat night, ted was the kitcher, we'reall waitg forhe fireworks. barney got to the edge and bob said bary, where have y been. i had been getting hit up out here and youe beenitting in th background. a competitor, most difficult friend. >> charlie: most difficult friend. >> most difficult friend. >> charlie: why a difficult friend. >> bause mosteople are not willing to gothrough what bob gibs, what he put you throu to ultimately become his friend. once you t to that level, then

you're happy you nt through it. >> charlie: hat does he put you through. >> the sametuff th he put barney schultz tough and i had a ver difficult time with bob. >> charlie: was that brok through orver time you made a difference >> i think over time,ver time. >> crlie: you had to earn your fridships. >> i thi that's the way peopl are. you don't accept people for face valu you have to get to know them. i have been all my life kind of stand offi as far making friends is concerned d it takes a while. i think that'she way it should be. >> crlie: we'll talk about hitting and managing. calculated anticipation what is that? guessing. i said that one timen tv to

joe garragio and he said o no, n't think lawyer her i thi a lot of people do it, pitchers do it, we do it as hitts. where a y is pitching you in, pitching you in, pitching you in all the time. and i hit a couple bullets. a ball inside, okay. i come bac the next me up, i t a ballover the fence off a pitch inse. now, with fairly easy analytical inking, we could call that calcating that im now going to anticipatsomething being awayrom me. and something soft. so iwould take the experience that i have as, you know against a certain pitche and i could take a pit away from them. i hit twoome runs off a slider at's away or down period, a od one or bad one. m not going to s that for a while. so even if i see any at bat charlie and it's a ball, i feel

as though i'vetaken that from himt least for the nextew at bats and i'm goingo get something hardi'm going to get a fast bl. so that's a fancy term. >>harlie: es. [laughter] >>harlie: but informed guessing, informe you take that. >> inford, right. >> charlie: in 68, it was 1.12 oromething like that. >> yes. >> charlie: sin then what's the closest anybody' come to ur record, doouno >> i don't. >> charlie: anything bow. >> well there have been some 1' >> charlie: really. >> beginly was a 174. cofax had some 1's and i know

vita 174 and gry was 178. >> charlie: who was the best player you er saw. >> mays. mays for us, i don't ow for bby but for me we coul watch him ke jordan we played against hi in spring training. one, you wound up realizing that you were watchinwillie the way hean, caught the ball the way he through it in. everhing he did had a style to it. d he did erything super. t well, hedid it all super. he stole a base stole it when he need it, threw grea ran grt, hit well, hit homers. and was exciting. >> charlie: ell me how sad you are, what damage s been done by all the dclosures to the gameou love. >> oh gosh i think when iirst heard about

steroids, chare, i remember not first but maybe after a year oro and i saw a wreckage tumbling, i went six all time home runs to 13th in 140 years i was 6th when i und up playing my career wa over. and in t next 140 eks, i was 13th. and i was talking to many so guys playing golf in vegas and almost got tears in my eyes. i had hold them back because i love the gam so muchnd admired the path that players like bob and aaron and mays and clementy and root, ted williams. the numbs that they pu up were goals that i hope to become a part of. i hope to get approval fromthe greats of the past that, you know, reggie's a great player. reggie's a good player. and if you got that approval,

then it reallyeant something because th game of baseball was, has bn bui on, yo know, are our icons and our idols of american history and our great sport of baseball. sterds came about and players ran by some of the greats in the pa so fast that iost understaing of what was good, what was gre, wt was the best. it didn't makeuch sense, so i've beenurt byhe steroids, ifhat makes sense. i've beenmotionally hurt and bothered by it. i almost feel like it makes some of the players tt earned tir strikes if you will before steroids. i think like it raises our level of esteem o our stature. i'hurt by itbecause i think for me reason it steals from thgame. there's an unfairne to it.

thers somethininequitable abouit and i don't like it. >> charlie: seone told me a story thatted williams and joe maggio were waiting to e president bu 41 at the time and they had an hour and-aalf becae the president was delayed and ts person witnessing thaconversation saidt was one of the great moments in his life to sit there and ar these two giants talk abou the gam they lov everythi from bat size to som of the things we're talng abt. what makes a great hitter and wh kind of pitches were best for you. some ofthat same thing or a lot of that and mor is her because it comes from two greats but one is a pitcher and one a great pitcher, one's great hitter. thetitle is 60 feet circumstance incs hall ofame pitchetalks about how the ge is playe i thanyou. great to see you >> thanks for having us. >> charl: thanksob, good

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i can't go back. hey. ah. [ laughs ]