and new york cy in particular became aongoing comedy and the reon it was like a victorian novel becau we had power-players d had reporters to go out and watch barry diller or mike ovitz or watch arthur sal salsburger and if the rders get to love the paper they'll feel as though they're read tailing dickinsian novel. charlie: what's your irritation? >> think -- i'm going to s someing harsh but they drag morons with the gg because whatappened was aggrigation almost killed my siness. in other wds, the moment you uld t all the stuff for

free, there was the economic model was destroyed and the other thing was the brkness of it destred the attention span which i found to be cultur cult destructe and what a think is gog toappen withobile devices is -- well, i don't know what's going to happenbut let's sayaggrigation an i have closeriends that work in -- i ke to ink of th as information sur markets -- bu it's undeined the american news press and when i

talk tpeople whoove what i do for a living they said it's broken andou can picknd choose, it'sll forfree,t separates the news it from the more complicated news ory. it's a landspe that by definition a sllow landscape and i think aggrigation. i think s it a purpose. yogo to drudge, forexample, you can t an infusion of the news of the day but -- >> charlie:how many agigators do you need. >> well, one. >> the new york tim does it well and they'll psent stories

that are not nework times stories. >> charlie: becausethey want you totay with them. >> a want your worldiew and sensility. >>harlie: tina said we're enring the golden age of urnalism a means to get id and devic to see it o a little lger picture screen. >> i think that's truend i think it's true in the same sense that itas true when ople like don hewitt entered television bause there's a new media, i thk, is about to burgeo but it will demand a new sort much brio enthussm. >>harlie: great to have you here. >> terrifyg but wonderful. >>harlie: he's my frid so therefore he is he to talk about ts book and gave the

introducono it, "the kingdom ofew rk." it's an island terrorism with borders and a brutal hierarchy that seed hard and the royals thought a great de of themselves and bought a lot for thselves, dress add accordingly and spent fortun on town cars and ught into prate schools and charity balls with the idea it was a gameorth winning. peter kaplan thank you. >> thank you, charlie. >> charlie: ank you for joining us. see you next time. captioning sponsored by rose communicaons captiod by media acss group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

tavis: good ening from los angeles, i'm tavis smiley. first up a controversy with lee iceenber the author of the best-seller, theumber is out this week, the book takes an depth look at our consume economy and how i haseen affected by th current recession. alsoonight, susie essman stops byn addition to h ro on "curb your enthiasm" she's ouwith a new book called whatould sie say. >> there are so many things

that wal-mart is looking forward to doing like helping people live better, but mostly 're helping build stronr commities and relationships because with your help, the best is t to come. >> nationwide insurance proly supports tavismiley. tavis and nationwide insurance working impve financial literacy andhe empowerment that comes wit it. >> and throu viewersike you. thank you. tas: we continue our road wealth serie with lee iceenberformer ett in chief at "esquire." his previous books include "the

number" whixplores retireme. his latestook calle "shockism." she joins us from n york. good to have you here on the ogram. >> good toe here, tavis. tavis: i was lauing of the retail numrs that shows in the month of october, at let 're still buyg. retail nbers are up. what do youake of tha >> i guesse're getting shopmyst. i'm really not that surprise because i w at this garganch wan shopping places. and i saw very f sale signs which 're not acctomed to seeing. and there were no chrisas deration, almost none. and usually in a bad year those

start going up in the middlef aust. i do think things are beginng to look a bit more stable, even though there are seven million more unimployed people in the united states th there were a year ago. tavis: i love the word shoptimi. >> i means severalhings. which is to say there's someing that will compel us to show no matte what. i dot think it necessarily means we're going t shop wh the same way, wh the same recklessness, the same mind set, but we will find way to shop. where there's a willo shop, there's way to shop. >> shopping and buying can be very anxus. it's both pleasurab and painful and nervous making on the other hand. oftentimes we lose sig of the fact that while i not condoningeckless spending,r

people getting way into debt, think there are materialuys that eve if we buy them emotionally, theyo add something meaningf to our lives. and inhe book iry to exple exactly what thats. tavis: some examples of that since we're on it. >> i interviewed a woman in minnesota who's father had recently died. and shend her brother went ck to hisouse to clean o his stuff. and she took se of his things ck to her house. an theyind of found a place, somef them didn' but sh stopped and she said, you know, thene thing tha i wod have led to he had from himas his ipod. and i was surprisedo hear that. aniaid,hy? she said on that ipod which was lost shortly after he h died, all of the music he s listening to in the yea prior to his death, all the mic that he loved was on that ipod. and would have been a very,

very meaningful thg for her have kept over the years. now that - the ipod is just an every day ectronic gadge it advertised tv. but it repsented something of her fath that was profound to her. we have ourad's watch or shirt or somhing like that. whe it's ey to derive marial oects that as unnecessary, i dthink that pa of us does get invested in e things we buy even the material things. tavis: l me back dow for just a second, why do we shop, le >> there are plenty of reasons for that. and that gets into t question of do we need or do we want? obvisly, there are things we shop f that we nd. things to subsi. we need water, clothing, shelter and heal care and the rest. but most of the things we buy, we don't stricy, saking

need in order to survi, but we need em for a who varietof emotional reans. sotimes we buy things just to ke ourselves feel better. and there are critics of consumption,nti-consumerists who will tell you tt you shouldn't that. we shouldn't buy anything tha we don't need. but i don think tt's -- don't think that we need. if we can buy things impuively without breaking thfamily budget, really dot see any reason that that's a bad day a blue saturday. you want to go out and buy something new or buy a new hairdo or something like that. if we're not doing se serious harm to our needs,ur real needs, then i don't see any crime in that. tavis: but isn'tt true that so many americans buy stuff with money theyon't have? >> absolutelyrue. we got into this financial mes because of that. and a great many people are

labong under this reinvolving credit bills i'm not suggestinthat is the case. t i do suggest that some degree we have paint the soety and paied the culture with too broad a bsh. i intervie hundredsf people about why they bought, why the shop. but i haveo tell you a great ma people and i would dare say most of us are pretty reasonable evenhough we may indulge, now and tn. and i think that gs a little st in thisort of blanket indictment that our ey are bigger than our walle. vis: andet, mson avenue in part, i would argue at least responsible for jus putting th stuff as it we in our face l the time. what i'm getting at he is whher or not we're shoppin -- you raise in the book this question of ed vs. want.

i want to add another one. sit need, ist want? or iit the fact that we're beingrogrammed to do it? >> t sphere that we'reeing programmed really hel us back 50 years. in the 1950's there was this ok called "the hidden persuaders." i talk about the buy side and ll --ale side came to be. it's a pretty good social history ofhe unit states. you n look at adverting in o ways. you can look at it as you suggested that it's an evil force that madis avenue maen havehe power to inject us with the buy vus and we buy mindlessly. but on the other hand, we ar so used it -- the world is far papered overith advertising,

m not sucting it isn't. but in other ways madison avenue have donetself i i think we could also argue that it sort of air we brehe. we're so used to these ridiculously indefensible product plaments thatre so obvious. we're sosed to opening a magazine and we're using the same productn the facing page, i ge a lot of us a lot mo credit in terms of understandinthat it is per meeable not suggestioning that there's too muc oft, but i am suggestioning tt we hav the brains to see tough it. tas: is that to sugst that if madis avenue pulleback there might are be a game? >> i think m di ison avenue isulling back.

i don't thk they want to pull back. with ts social media buz e fact of t matter is that the balance of power, i think has shifted to a largeegree away from the marketers a on to the consumer. i don't knowbout you, tis, but before i purchase virtually anything now, it could be a ck of triple a battees or it could be an expensive ft scen television or whatever it might be, ion't make a consumerove without going online and checking prices. you know,e can buy a car now d we know exactly right down to theenny what the c dealer is paying for the car and that enables us and powers us to negotiate ever. and study after study 80%, 90% ofs would saye would sooner trust what other ople he ught, we trust what they sa

about the quality d the fairness o a prihan we do the advertisers. and i think advertisers, main stream advertisers are very much running scared n bause crowd wisdom, popular wisdom, voti by consurs are service, on quality on pri and everythings. i think we're in t midst of a pretty dramati revolution in terms of how w make o decisions. tavis: give me a glol perspective. your sub title suggestions that the american consumer will keep on buying n matter what. we may b -- we' still bung a lot because this is a enormous consumer driven countr and will be for seeably. but if you talk to the maeters, of everythg from cosmeticso designer clothing to all the rest, they don't really see their growt happenin here. now that mig not be vy good

newsor us. wherthey are lookingo -- you know, the so-called brick nation, brazil, ssia, india, china, pces where the money isuote, unquo new or young who are just getting their firstaste of louis vuittonr l'oreal or any o these other bran that have been driven to succeshere in the united states, i'm not sgesting 're down a path of downwar mobili, but we're down a path that we're on a certa plateauing when yo combine that with demographic, like the baby bm and oth demographic trends, this mayot be the crad of t buy that it alwaysas been. and of course, youan appla thatnd say, ok, we'reoming to our sses and we're not going be so materialistic. but it might suggestion that our expectations are binning to level off little t.

tas: i have to say that i goa kick of theact that womenre much more willing to cop to being a shopaholic. men don'tike to admit that. we don't cl ourselves shopaholics. we callurselvesollectors. >> interewed a psychiatrist who's specialty isompulsive buying. lot of usay we' shopahols. and we're real not. but he had just completed the largest study ever on compulsive bing, and suriseedly men can be considered certifyable compulsive buyers a women. he told me one case of a patient of his whoad 100 or 150 digital cameras. the manever too a single

photo. and his defense is that, you know, i don't buyout of control, i'm a collector. and i thin to a very large degree that's true. men hide behind hobbi and then they'll gout and buy all kinds of redundant itemsn order toomplete their collections. tavis: well, i colle books and i'm glado have this one added my collection. >> that's a good come puppings to have. tavis: it's called "shoptimisim. " by lee eisenberg. >> up next, sie essman. stay with us. susie esan is a tented comedian and actor who stars on "curb your enthusiasm." she's offers thoughts about

wisdom, love, and comedy. here now, a scene from "cu your enthusiasm"." >> want to come to a dinne party tonight? >> yeah. >> younow you lovey cooking. >> a little le for an invitation, is it no >> it's an invitation notheless. >> who else is going to be there? >> why not? >> because it' not done. what areo you mean, it'sot done? >> it's a socialonvention that people don't ask who's going toe there at t dinner party. >> big deal. >> i don't kno theerivation of the convention. >> you should beappy that it happens that way becse they probably won'to if they knew you were coming. >> w even have it in the first place? >>t's just n done. tavis: i've got ve a lot of cred to my staff how ty found a clip thatong of y

not cussing larry o. i was waiting for the bleeps to popping out. >> i have a few choice scenes at later on in the episode, i curshim out. so i try to pace mysf. i seriously do. i try to not be -- you know, this level all the te. i want tbuild to it. >> what is up with you cussing people out all the time? >> i d't itn my rea life. ion't do ito my husband and kids. >> even now and then i get rely really angry. press one andhey say start screamg at an automated machine. tas: i read that people a you touss them out. >> givme specics. like if they're fat. ll me f. yeah, they enjoy it. tavis: how weird is that? >> iis so bizarre that this is what my life has become cause people who kw me in

my real life, not that i'mild manneredness, but i'mot susie green. and yet poignant a wonrful that i've bome beloved f yelling an screaming and telling pele where to shove it vis: i think it's a great life. most peoe do that woit bng asd, but how cool s toave people walk up to y and say, please curse me out. >> i'm not alwayin the mood. i'm shping for produce or something and somebodyomes up and ask me -- i'm like, thas my work. do i come to yourental office and k you- they start pushing me. th i get reay angry. tavis: and the you start cuing. >> yea exactly. tavis: to your point people waing you to go into you acting schtick, how muc does

that hapn because larry is on the show? you go byour real first names. >> it's very confung. >> i'm susie green. larry david is larry david. and then there's a lot of guest stars like ted dansen who plays ted dansen. 's playing the charact over d dansen on kirk. remember on the luc show, william hoe denould show up. wasn't playing himself. he was playing the actor wiiam holden. and also because t show was improvised. so the lines feel so natural o "curb." so there's alws that kind of weird -- peoe don't kno who anybody is. but i guarantee youone of us isho you think we are. tavis: i'm always amazedhen i get booked- books from people that have established himself

who are en about the own tribulatns and you're no fferent. why the oice about being so openbout the obstacles and challenges you've had in grour life? >> few reasons one reaso i got married for thfirst time at 53. tavis: first tim there's hope. ere's hope. >> yeah, there's hope for everything i have frteen age step children. w they're 16, 18, and 21. when i met them i was know tt there's another life bore that. and i went tough deep, deep, clinic depression.

and-up was the thing that savemy life. i waed them to uerstand at aspect of me. that w one reason why i wrote it. the other ing just in general, people sigh you a successful on television. ople think that was it. that was your whole life. that's now how i works. things taka really long time. they tak a lot of hardork. >> when you say stand-up sav yo life, tell us aut that. >> i found the thing that was missing in my lif for me it was a creative voice that i had to find that i hadn't been doing at i hadn't been actualizing. std-up is such a powerful thing nay. making pple laugh is like noing like this in thishole worl one of the thing about depression is thatou're so wrapped up on yourself tt you cat see through it.

once i began talking to audience began to focus on everybody else. tavis: what do you think about people getting wisdom from o books? >> that's w i say b.s. -- because i felt somewha pretenous. and yet in me rding the book there are thingthat ihink having read -- i'm 54 years old. i' been throu a lie. i was single foranyears. been through psych analysis. been through a lot. having these ildren that i'm a stepmoth full-time hands on a stepmother to. so i think i know a thing or tw at the same time, i don't want to be so presumpon that i know everying. plato said this inow that i know notng. and socrates said no thy self-.

tavis: to your pointbout psycho analys, there are people whombrace that. and there are others that have problem withhat. tell me how you became open to that. >> i was extreme unhappy. and i wasn't always open to it. and this was before anti-depressts. there are anti-depressants very strong those da. i was extremely unhappy. and wand to find an answer to my unhappiness. and for because i have an anytic mind. i'm comedian. we twist it apa in all differt ways. i stuck tot like a fish to water. it's not for everybody. to me, the more i could strip away off my unconscious, the mo i would understand, the freer would become. there were no lightbulb moments. i didn discover that i was modeed when i was 10.

there was nothing like that. it was just boming more familiar with myonscious so that i didn't ha a hold o me. itasn't controlling men the same way that ised. tavis: there's so much in thi book that i can'to it justice. i wanto talk about getting married at 53. what are yourharings -- i was a restaurant. one of my foriteestaurants. and i heardhe bonnie rate sos. "in the nickf time." >> i had been friends with my husband'brother for years. we happeto be in theame place at the se time. we weren't fixed u and both our lives are completelyifferent. at was six yearsgo. >> my grandmother