captioned by the national captioning stitute --www.ncap.org-- >> hello there. i am llewellyn kin the host of "whiteouse chronicle," which isoming right up. but first, a few thoughts of my own. closely related thohts aut nspapers. both of these endeavors are i terrible troubleinancially. the old business models are broken, and there i something

very sad for someone lik mysel who has spent alifeme not only working in newspapers an magazines, but ao consuming them. in american journalism, magazines have been very advanced, very clever, very thoughtful. newspapers arsomewhat repetive. the newspers today are not nearly as mucthe same as 100 years o. magazines are a different sry. the digestas released -- reader's dist was started out the same time as "time" magazine. the ea of "time magazine" -- that it would bo it down, give it a sense of fun and energy in "theew york tes, up and off th would go, and it was one o the greatest publishi successes of all time. now magazines are hurting, with the single eeption of this one, "the economist," which

comes t of britain b is aimed at people on the oth side of the atlantic. it manages to hold on and to prosper, and it does that because it does wha the old "time magazine" used to do. it gives you all t news with a sense of energy and fun. newspapers -- nobody knows wt their future is. it is bad for o democracy and our own well-bein and we do not have an lotf newspape and gazines. let me tl you, television, adio, twittering, etc., do not fill the great voidhat the disappeance of these mvelous things wil create. is very s for those os who ha given ourives to working jrnalism, a in doing wh our friend did on this program i asked him the best partf

journalism. he said, "i le to find out what is happening and tell people." we allave lovedoing tt. we are not politicns. we like to find out what is happening and tell you. is sad that t economic model is brok. todawe will find out some thin inhe wondeul floating conrsation bween mendon gasparello and bob franken and myself. between linda gasparello, bob franken, andyself. we wilbe right back without interruption. >>white house conicle" is produced in collaboratio with whut, howard university television. w, your program host, tionally syndicad cumnist llewellyn king, and co-ho linda gasparello. >> hello again, anthank you so

much for coming along. i promised you two wonderful pele -- hear they are. monday gasparello, a co-ho of this programwhich last -- lia gasrello, co-host of this program, who is lauing at some othat bob franken said. >> we ve laughing with bob anken. >> lindaasparello, tell me, how did youet into journalism and why are you he dng it aftea year or two or five or 10 o20? >or longer? >> got int jrnalism by design. i decided that i wanteto be a foreign correspondent, but i d not want topend a lot of time covering local politic and local issues. so i gotyself a coupl of languages, and armed with the

languages, i went offo t middle east and i felt myself a job pretty much immedtely. they needed me because i was able to speak those languages, so i am trying t encourage all the young viewers out tre to get a langue under yr belt. it is aast track to foign coespondents. >> bob franken, a syndicated columnis you had a ver distinguished program on cnn, appeared on msnbc. you arfairly busy. how did you cme to be a journalist? >> well, i am stl waiting to beco one. >> i would have thoughyou would make a suburban litigat, myse -- a superbitigator, myself >> you could probablyrgue that certain times that ishat we do. the appropriate answero your questi, and it is highly inappropriate, is i t a guy and a bar. that isow the career began.

forhose who are wondering what to do with your life, i cannly say that th is a wonrful undertaking. what we do -- >> it needs no ult survision. its a lot more serious. >> heres the proem today. you talked in your opening comments about the demise of int media. i think that the larger problem is not so much the lack of per publicions, but i think it is a lack of rard on the part of peop on the part of journalism --hey come from a world that consider meddlesome journalism something thats bothersome to them. iother words, they come from the establishment they could care less about the issue of journalism, which i to be an independen voi standing off to the side, checking things out, being the skeptic.

these are people from the corpore world who do not really like that,o they are noteady to support i particularly when it interferes with their bottoline. >> i think the great danger is that journalism is in such trouble. saries are so low. soany people are working thout being paid, that we a not going to attract the talent that is required. it really is - there probly is some similarity between law and journalism. it is a words-based profession. we are not oto have the rate riders to be t -- thereat writerto the columnists and ar -- and edits of tomorrow. >> i think tre is also another thing in the, which means -- which is the facthat we have so mandemands on ourime. when you pic up your paper

whether it is "the washington post" or"the new york times," you coulbe sure that whatou read would ge you a great picture of at was going on in washington, at wasoing on around the world. the dend that it made on your time w so much less than the demand on your time now, with this very fragmented wayople are gettingheir news, people are getting the entertainment. > you check thenternet, you check this, youheck that >> exactly. you have to go to so many sources, this gigantic menu of plac where you can pick your news, pi your enttainment selections. it is too much work to do whaa paperid in a very compressed way. >> this is going to sound like heresy, but i am going to put

this out as an argument. could it be argued that at is really th more democratic way to do it,he more egalitari y to do it? to l people decide what it is they are interested in, as opposed to some elitis who say from their offishat peoplehould know this and have no need to know this? >> with your argument - ahmad >> iis not my argument, it is ju -- >> in reali, though, too much oice can be oppressive. a young person says i do not know which of these five peoe i should marry. the answ is is the sixth one whom you have not met yet let' move on fr this because were not ono solve all the problems of journali. >> why move on? >> i wanto talk aboutnother choice, and that is something th you haveeen cering.

i want to know how the journaismusiness, coving health care- we have been in this health care debe, you have writt about it. what are yr conclusions about american healtcare? out health care in america >> about th coverage of it? well, the covere of it really, coradictory answers. there has been a lot of superficial coverage, the kd of he said, she said coverag, of who the nationalities -- of to the persolities are, an issue that issubstantive and like healtcare. paradocally, some ofhe best coverage have seen some in these newspaps, that we say are dinosaur "the washingtopost," "the new york times," have often comes done a brilant job of putting intoontext the fferent

aspectsof health care, whether it is the role of the insurance company, the docrs, etc., how they match, thatype of thing has been donin ways that i think arodd-inspirinby some of the writers and "e washington pt" and "the new york times." >> the reason why we condt that type of coverage is becse newspapers canee this issue ming along, and they assign tes ofeporters whommersed themselves in an issue, as opposed to getting the he said, see said-she said, that th things. that only a large well-funded news organization can do. >> i would like to knowf you have any cclusions from exining -if you were to make the decision about healt care, would you go with a single payer which looks like som europn countrs? would you mix it up, as in

germy? how would you go? >> well, the answer is i would probably start with something different from what weave in the unitedtates. there a wonderful book out ere called "theealing of america," by a wasngton pos rerter. what we have the united stat is an amalgam of the worst,hat just about all of e system that y talked about, we have a littleit from this one, a little bit badrom this one, etc. so you end up with somhing that clas it is the best health care the world whe the statistics say it prett pathetic, the quity of alth care and unid states. >> you are saying the medicine is pattic,o what about care? >> the medicine is pathetic, the results are pathetic. d the costs arexorbitant. that is very depressing. what happens then that it getsemagogued to deat that is what we'reeeing rig

now. the old thingsthat scare people to tea parties, and om the left, things that are unrealisc. u end up in the same stae of political palysis, and the ited states gets into deepe trouble providing something at should be a fdamental right in this country. >> what hapns witthe current deba that we have moved aad, theres not a recognion, that there ever really w that is is a bken system, and it is getting worse, not better? >> i thi a lot of people, despite theemagoguery, have been convinced there is a bette way. if there is anhing that presidt obama has done is opening theandora's box of health ce, the fac that he has made people think aboow things could be different. do not think you can go back. i think once he removed, once he

pushed away that rock,s for word in our thinkin they could be a lot better. a loof americans have en treated abroa a lot of amerins are coming back fro living abroad that have used the french system, ich i think a serb syst. i have used the english medal system, which think it's rrific, too. i've used the egyptian medical system. i even used the iranian medical system. >> thegyptian medical system is sething you are going to wish on us? >> the egyptian medil system, when needed it, it came through. >> let's make sure,irst of all, thawe do not get s caught up in what so manyeople do that they do n provide a better balan because i think it is apprriate. the brish system the people of briin despise it. >> i lived uer eit.

>> they are loh to get rid of , but the american people to a laeegree are here, too. let's suppos that you ar rit, that president obamhas achieved point number one, whi is to say that this is bad, folks we have to do something about it whenou come up with the solutions, all of th have down des. for example, how happy are people gng to be whenou are suddenly tol that youustuy alth care or you are going to be fin a penalty? i do not think they wille very happy about that. >> i would ask you t hold that thought. i would like to identify ourselves for the benefit of our many listeners o sirius-xm radio. i am llewellyn kg, the hostf "white houhronicle," which you're listeningo. i am joined by co-host linda

gasparello, and columnistob franken. if you want to see us, you can see us on whchronicle.com. back to o issues of health. l's moven. what other contentiou issues have a loteople on both sides -- >> there are none. everybody is happy as can be. well, theres afghanistan. >> of urse. >> what are we goingo d? as an oldoliceman, i got into a ratr heated discussion th other day that i did not plan on. in the 1900's, there used to be a saying ithe british paiament that we cannot be the wod's policeman.

i was told at we had be becauswe are the world's superpower. >> my feeling is that we nee a gional security apparatus. it is a regionalroblem that e region is not ting responsibility for. we need more interest by china. china has a lot to lose with and afghanistan and falls apartr a pakistanhat falls apart. >>r iia. >> india has a huge thi to lose. we are fighting th battle for them. it is our blood and it their treasure, d we should take more of an interest in the are >> what do you feel out being

iranian enrichmentf uranium? everybody spects what it is fo >> do you think thecan actually mak a weapon? >> given te, they will be able to do it, kwing that iranian engiers are vy well trained anvery smart, and it is an entlement now that you will not takeway from them. >> what was the most pleasant aspect of life in iran? >>he most pleast aspect was the day to day living in iran which it was like living in france, actually. a fet for t eyesere you went no matter what corr of the city you turned i whether it was tehraare sure a tremdous ancient cutters --

anciencultures. i lov the pride that theeople had in the country. people who wo, you know, as i said, they had so much culture, and that to me w -- >> outside of that, why are they going aer israel? is it purely an islamiching? >> no, i do n think so. it is the fact that ir wants regnition, and it is not tting the recogtion it feels it deserves. >> the complication that iran is notn arab nation its different from the arab nations. the are tensions between the rsians and the arabs, and that mplicates things in the region but the one thing that they are able to do to ingratiate themselves with their nghbors is to take on the cause of

paleste. >> however, they are shia, and with thexception of iraq -- >>hich creates more complication in all of this type of fine, but also, do not forget that i you put in e fact that the united states, because of the support of the shah, whoas regardeds the greatatan and still is to a degree, it is potically palatable to oppose anything the united stas is 4. >> l's get back to the ide of recognition. i word -- we were talking about the recognion factor he said something at was really -- that has rlly stuck with m he was studyingermany after

wod war i, anhe said that countries thatre humiliated d are not rognized and have tremendous sense of the culture and nationality tend to make war. he was lookingt that in terms of where theuture wars may be. iran is test case of that has been humiliated. it has a tremendous sense of nationalism and identy, a it is a countryhat is no recogniz -- >> does that mean we should stanby and let it get a nuclear weapon? i want to know howou think it wilnot get a nuclear weapon. >> that is a very good response. >>he answer will be some successful intelligee efft, to putting people th are not such dogmatic nationalists, who are not crazy people, as the people who seem to b that are running the country now. >> i spent a lot of my life

working on nuclear proliferation issues. ere are two point one is the point by dad ignatiusand he said it has not had much response. the gas whichou put into the centrifuges to get in richmond -- tget enrichmen, at 10,000 revolutions per secd, is in pure. there arether gases ent it, and the possibilitis that if we are trying to go above 3%, 4%, 5%, which is what we do at powerlants, which makes it as a nuclear weapon --hese huge centfuges will disintegrate. that isery interesti. the otherhing, i thinkhe way you stop proliferati or at least buy someime, is not to out t the sites. go after theig central a

electric supply theyonsume a lot of electricity, and we have found in modern warfare that you can bombities, bomb people, but if you bo out there and it to the, very quickly nothingorks. are all wired in the modern world. the only problem ishats premised on war. that is a little tiny prlem. except for the ft that this is not some pusver country. we apparently cannot be e puover countries, as wsee in afhanistan. this ia country thats formable. ere is a national pri, and it has qui a mility. >> we a fighting a people. that is very different. >> t united stesven with itsllies could not go rning roughshod inran without taking the rest of the world dn with it. sohat really kind of puts a damp on going after an elective supply. that is an act of war.

i would like to change the suect. telle, bob,hat in your life are you pticularly proud of? i will make itasier on you by telling you what i am proud of. has nothing to do wh journali and polits. one is learning toide a hor when i was an adul the second is lening to fly an airplane. these are things you cannot ta away from . i uld do those things. everything else in o lives is remarkably subjective. go ahead, tell me. >> iant to tell you one tt is so clic that i am barrassed, and that is i he a loving fily that i am proud of. it is going to sound like i a running for offe, but that is the true spirit if iay, the next thing is so cliche. that is what i chose to do in life. there have been basic moments in life that have made me rticularly proud in the ofession.

in anxample, during the iraq war, we were the only mea who were there -- anthis was cnn the time- we re the only on with a camera or two to record the rease of the eight pow'shat had been held in iraq. ey were given up for dead, so we have this video and the store was these people werelive. i was ae to go live wit that. meanwhile, bacat headquarts, they had famils on who tched th to respond. thereas a thousand miles away realizing i was bringin such join with the news to each famies, fm despair, that they were seeing their love ones. ioccurred to me that weive in a glol village and i was getting to be a part o something that was a magnificent mont. that is somhing tt has never lefte. >> there is also the messagei not know which meum anore. >>witter.

>> 140-letter messe. >> linda, what are you proud of? or sorry about? one big thing in ur life, t necessarily professional, that comes to mind? >> one thing i am gladbout that i am pud about, too, is the fact that i, unlike many journalists, am not apathetic. it still excites me. i still want to find out, i still want to do to tell people what i have arned. i find, as i said, i know other journasts who have become better and they are not interested in going to the seminars a they're not terested in the travel. but i find that i am a terrible terrorist cause i lovto travel, but when i go,- i am a terrib toust, becaus i love

toravel, but when i go, i want torite about it and tell people abo it. that is very excitg, and i am proud to have that in me sti. >> that is great. is it so excing to be a damn sure reporter after so many years? >> -- a gum surshoe reporter afr so many years? >> absolutely. u are able to gout there a tell people about t war. this goes back to the 1990 paus when clarence thasas having his no infamou hearings on capitol hill, which were bizarre, as most of us remember. i was the oneho got to talk on the air and bringpeople news about the hair on thcoca-cola ns and all this stuff. more importaly, that- >> we are coming to the end he. >> that is when the issue o sexual harassment once d for all came tohe national

consciousness. thank you, b. th is our pgram for today. we are solad you joined us. you can see these program -- this program and read somef my articl at whchronicle.com. goodbye. all the best. caioned by the national captionininstitute --www.icap.org-- >> "white house chronicle" is produced in collaboratio with whut, howard university tevision. from wasngton, d.c., this has en "white house conicle," a weekly analysis of t news with a sense of humor featuring ewellyning, linda gasparello, and gues.

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