tavis: good evening, fro los angeles, i'm tis smiley. first up tonight, a conversation about the growing backlash against g banks with award winning fmmaker, euge jarecki. he andthers are proponents of a grassroots movement foreople to mov their money from large instutions to smaller banks. also tonight, srts marketing executivmax siegel is here. the former presidt of da le earnhardt inge has been one of the world of nascar and hes an thor of a book, "who what

makes them tick." filmmaker eugene jarecki and max siegel coming up right now. >> there are so manyhings that wal-ma is looking forward to ing, like helping people liv betterbut mostly we're looking forwa to building stronger mmunities and retionships. becausof your help, the best is yet to come. >> nationwidinsurance proudly supports tavis smiley. tavis a nationwide insurance, working tomprove financial litacy and the onomic empowermt that comes with it. >> nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions toour pbs station om viewers like you. thank you.

tavis: eugene jarecki is an award wiing filmmak whose ppp projects include "why we fight" and the trials of henry kissinger. hes the author of arican at wa the republic in peril the book just now out in paperback. eugene, good to haveou back on the program. >> good to be here. vis: you have beenood? >> i'merrific. we were talking about when you we last year we were tking about the trials,he challenges that president obama might fe in his firstear in office. yeah, the trial of barack obama. >>o it is a year later. what say you now? >> i think barack obamis ÷÷ suffering from having been very largely abandoned by the public in a w and i think h also has abandoned the publi so i think what we're in store for now, it will the questn the next several months, is can obama rebuild hisies to pp all of the amecans who caredp÷ so much about his election? pp something happened toarack obama when he came into the

white house where waington began to take i toll on him. i think it cut his -- in many ways cut his memory of the closeness he had to the public and whthe public loved him so much. i think he has really started to serve that terble úúúúú constellation of intests that ú makes waington so toxic and the question is can he and his public redcover each other tavis: thais ultimately the question, one of the ways at he wants to do that is wit this newfound pop lis many. at the heart of newfod pop lis many ayou know- pulism is this aggressive posture aginst the banks. your take on thisefore we talp about this moneyovement pppp campaign. >> sure.pp in general, anytimehe public p stan up and makes itself knownp of what it wants, the publicayp think i'm making barack obama's job diicult if i hd him to pp account onhis or i say i want p u to take a stronger stand pp here. you make h jobp easier.ppwp obama needs the public behind p

m to have the resolve toold p off the forcesf evil in eppp banking secto the indusial sector. the areas have so much power in washington thathe only force a prident has and obama has itore than anyon else is the power to draw on public vigor. tavis: but if the white house that is to s the people around him, maybe eve the president himself, if the view those who are pushing him holding him accountable out of respe because we want toee him succeed in the white house, if they takthat asushback rather than a move to push them forward, thais to say, if they take whatou and others are doing, what i mighbe saying as an attack against th, then how doe become the wind at their backs, so to speak? >> well, i think it's a question how we voice our desires and hopes and dreams. it's a questn of barack obama's mpemembering all of the enmously inspiring etoric and ideas.

it wasn't st rhetoric that he shared with the public. the public in this cntry didn elect barack obamao go and shake hands andake nice-nice with his adversaes. they didt do that. he wasn't elected by 80% of the public. he w elected by half of e publ who thought, i thi quite rightly, that had what gone on for the last decade in this country waseeply miuided and hurtful to our values. they wanted him to go and absolutely do the george w routine. i'm the decider and i ow what i want. i'm a n of one vision. so my voices are aroun barack obama,o many voices like the ra emanuels of the world, the mr. geithner, soany voices that reprent an old stas quo. there is no surprise tt smart people are sayinwhy are these people arounthis -- why are these old guard ratherutdated people aroundhis very valuable oneering young president? and the queson is why is that still thease? tavis: he chose them, number one, sincee chose me, asses for me the mey men around him,

the geiners, theummers, are they the right pple? >> they are clearly the ong people. they ld the groundwk for thepp very visas we experienced.xz i remember somebody at the time said well,t's their mess. z is bringing them in t clean p it up.pppppp that's a clever phrase. pppp at's not what happen. ppp these are the powerful pple inp the fed and nking world w ppp came out of the clinton era, wp had the wrong ideas about how t run this cntry as well and to p bring them in, the fox, the pp henhouse, th doesn't work.pxz yoneed to bring in rea agentsp of change.wpwpp one of e great sadness for us who had annormous amoun of hope for barack ama is to s that the people broughtn across the boa are notgents pp of changp up and down hisdministration, it is ha to find someone except in se seconda posts who are tru agentsof change. tavi is ben bernanke the man to run the fed? >> i don't think so. you need to clean hse broly. you need to take a reexaminatio of what's happening and really, i think, fornother reason and p

poorpersperson, these are p we-meaning people. you ne to clean house. you need to start again. what haens is it's like pz anything. if you start cookingomething p and you're hfway through t p recipe and you realize that you forg to put butter in the batter in the benning and you keep going, iton't work. you ve to start again. one little ingredientan spoil the wholehing. tavis: given the chorus is owing louder and louder every day that the money people are the wrong people, i'm sure they're fine people, b given the chorus is growing louder and louder, 's almost to the point of bng deaning now, many people think these are the wng peop, how long do youroject or thinkt will be before t president getshe fact that somedy, bernanke, geithner, summers, someone has to go begi this choir that is getting loer all the time? >> here we see ande saw in theú campaign wn he was running forú president, barack obamis a loyal person. he is not aú pern thatires úú people easier or jumphip. úúú

the van jones instance wre a ú loof pple thought it was tooúw quick for president to úúwú someone like mr. jonesúúú in a certain way, gerally we w have seen that barack obama is  loyal person. hes loyal to ideas and what hew needs to get de.wúwúwúw he isn'toved by the force of ú punditry in washington d the w mea. he is too late he has waited too long. úú whatever he do now, he is i aú condemned sition that he is ww late to the arty that we want a meaningful level of hange than  he has pured so far. he has got to move now. alone has a special ability with his enormougifts for communating and his gifts for understanding toeally take stock of where his and say you no what?ú i'm basilly doing a rept of ww t thing that clinton did wherew i'm trying to please the úww republans and while i'm doing ú it, my base is gettingúúúúú attered. it's the fetishi of shang wúú

hands and councating. úúúúú he isn'toingú that.ú roosevelt didn't come io wúú office and say w can i make fries with? he sai we are in di straits and i ve a vision and wwill get to a better place. obama has let them not be in his vision. tavis: tim gthner is opposed to youposition. jim waace on this program not ng agos in the ca with you ying we need to take o money out of these big banks, put them inmaller banks, into communi bks. mrgeithner says that ould be mistake. >> this is one of the most exciting ideasou could have. i have to ll you, the "move your money" campaign thayou're talking abt, which i'm a very proud part of, and just a pt. it's a he and growing movement. m boming ever more irrelevant in i it's a wonderful feeling what thing have a of us have been able to find thate can do in the pt 10 or so years that

ally will make ahange, do something good forurselves and std as a form of protest, a fo of real civ action like in the old days in the civil rights movement a the way back to the dawn of the republic with the framers. movingour money out of the mar banks is in yournterest to do. you can t it into a community bank or credit union where the peoplenow your name. like on "eers," theynow about u, they know abo your kids. they know whon the town they're alsoupporting and being helul to. it's a sma thing to that is very helpf to communities. at the same time, sends a very specific signal to e major banks that youon't provide a service th i want. remember citalism, that whole survival of the ftest thing, you're not fit you're too b to fail, you should be made small. 's a wonderful thinghat pppp eryday people can do. we don't ealize thate accentally have our money in the big banks, we drink coke or pepsi. weidn't know they are other smaller soda labs. we know that there isar more diversity of options o there.

there are optns with banks. theyrive by the credit union or banknd didn' think they could have an accnt there. 's easy to open a new account. the fdic protects you the is no risk. up to $250,00 you're proteed in the same way the community bank as inthe large ban tavis: unlike backn the day, the counity banks are nnected to all oer banks. >> it works everywhere. tavis: it raises the questio of those of y liv the tm counity bank is wonderful term. in a pla like l.a. it's hard know where t commuty is. in new york or l.a., if you're in a majority watching us right now an you're turned on by this nversation, how do you fi a community bank in los angeles? >> we took care of tt. it's called mo your money.info. you go there and and you can watch thi little moviehat a t of people have see on youtube. it inspirepeople to think

about this. you go to that webte and y can see the movie next to it there is a lite zip code spot. puncin your zip cod whether it's los angeles o eoria or anywhere else,t will tell you the locate communi banks and creditnions that a b or higher. we're not ying all communi nks are good and a major banks are bad. we're sing there a a certain number of major banks, we know thr names, household names. they tailed us a bailed out with our numr and they're tang our money and ung our money to lob the system s that they can ep the rules the way they werthat allowed them to do at they did and takehe ki of risks they took. i don't think we suld be puttinour money with people who ke those risks. you ha heard theorror story about how the major ban are wiholding lending. they got bailed outnd got back onheir feet. when it s time for the americans to get back onheir feet, all of a dden, they expect us to jum right up and t give us a reprieve.

tavis: if i said iwas a creative as idea and clever as a concept, y can't move enough money tmake an impact, i'm saying that oiously because e critics have said that. you say wh? >> all revutions as the say are impossible untilhey happ. then ty become inevitable. i think that this cntry needs civic action. we never everyy people finding many ways t say this i what i wantrom my government. and all too often we sit back and we blamehose in pow. we blame whether it's mr. obama or whether it's hisdversaries p ors. pelosi, we find someone p to blame and say they're thew problem. at the e of the day -- there x is an olddage from washington where the lead says show me ere my people are going so y go there and lead them. the fact is we need to sw our public figures whe we want them to . the way you do that, it's like the boxing thing that mammed ali wouldo in closing out the ring. the public allowing them a tremendous amount of wgle rooz

by being detached from public z policy. weo so little.xxxx have strong feelings and w x don't do somethi. xpxp moving your money is a way youx can do somhing. xxx if hundrs and thousands of people as they are startg to do -- you go onoutube, you ll see thousands of people mong their money. you will seeeople videoing themselves on youtubas ty leave major bank and they video the prcess. if that starts to ke hold, i wod like to see the message at it sends to e major banks. tavis:ugene jarecki. this movement is picking up all over the country. i'm excited to speak to you on the program >> you goto move your money. tavis: i d a long time ago. it didn't take thi drama to ve mine. i'm sure we'llut that out >> that's good. i like that. tavis: nex max siegel, former presidenof dale earnhardt inc. stay with us. max siegel is theormer

presidenof dale earnhardt, inc and t c.e.o. of his own sports maketing firm which nascar. he is an ahor, "o what makes them tk." max, good toave you here. glad to be here. tavis: are y doing all right, man? >> i'm dng great. tavis: we grew up together. we knew eachther since we were kids back indiana. i ve been so, as a friend, just pleased to watch your growth and all the opportunies you have had and theuccess that has come your way yotook a turn tha i didn't see coming though, when you did the nascar. yodid the dale earnhardt nascar thing, how did tt happen? >> rgie white has been areat friendf mine. he was a cent of me. reggie was very pasonate and hiattitude was infectious. when he retired dn to chlotte, north carolina, he hooked up th joe gibbs and j gibbs racing andaw a tremenus opportunity no nascar

for peop of color. just kept after me f a long timeo invest with him, to look at what was going on in the sporand when i got intduced to t sport, it had eve b of entertainment isports and competition. it was everything at i had do my entireareer. it was newerritory. so it was an exciting opportunity. tavis: you had been prioto th in the music business. what's t contrast, the comparisonmusic, nascar, music, auto racing? >> you know, the core business is ptty much the sam it's really developing bras and property andanaging those and realltaking a product to the conmer. the thing at i find that i really compellingbout nasca is unle most srts and most entertainment products, the fans live t lifestyle. so for me, iwas an opptunity to get with ns who were even more discrinating in where they spendheir discretionary income and passionate about what they don consuming that port product, ty have a very high

standard for what they want to se tas: you confuse me. you said earer and i tught i hed you say that yosaw opportities for people of color, but n you're telng me at the fans of nascar auto racing live th lifestyle. i don't see broters in the hd living the ncar lifesle. where did you see opportuniti for people of color? >> the most difficult point of entry for ns of nascar ithe pression that the sport has. i found since i was brought into the ort that it hasverything that weant from compelling entertainment, a lot of fily values. it's sething that is fascinati whether you come from a technology bkground, you ke speed celebri, it has all those kind of things. fome, onef the things that i have been charged wh in the diversity progm of nascars showing those ople that have thsame reaction that you do that it is a sport that is welcomingnd there is somethi for everne in it. i want you to liv the nascar

lifestyle. tavi i have been trying to get to a race. i haven't gten there yet, but have bee invited by ariend. that raise this questn. i think i get i but i haven't been to a race as yet. at is the thing that turns on? is it thepeed? what is ? >> when you lo at it as a sport, the sed certaly is there. the competition certainly there. the hletes are some of e most accsible athletes in pressional sports. you havethletes like dale jr. who makes tens o millions of dollars a year and tons of fs and 30 sonds before he gs in a car going 200 miles per hour, he is signgutographs and interacting with sponss. the origin of the sport, the fact that people feel hiorically like theyould get behi that wheel and compete is sothing that's attractive to the sport. again, i thi that if y are into anything from technology to sports and entertainment, the

isomething for you inascar. vis: i figure that nascar auto racing might take a hit in this economy gen to your point now, its an everyday people kind of spo. discretiony income in this country is down. how ithe sport holding u under the weightf this economy? >> the srt has experienced exponential growth oer the past through yea. i think wi most sportsnd people who tive off of marketing dolls, the sponsors are getting lotmore diriminating and want you to denstrate thathere is in fact a return on thei investment. what they find with nasr is they actually can msure the impact on the bottom line of their business. it remains healthy. there is a tv conact, long term. the viewerip is up. 75 million fans, it's second to only the nfl in tms of worldwide and it's the nber one spector sport. is remaining healt buteams in that dustry are working through the challenges tt the auto manufacture are facin

ght now as well asarketing budgets being slashed. tavis: i'm just top-lining this, but you have done music, television, radio, you have done nascar, little bit of everything. the book is about how to netiate anything. had a fred of mine tell men life we don't get what we deserv we get what we negotiate. you n't get in lifehat we deserv you get what w negotiate. do you agree wh that? >> you hav to vislize what i is what you want. you have to negotiatwhat you want. more importantly, i think toet where you ant to go and be, you got to negotiate your y throh some challenging obtacles. tavis: tell me more about what that negotiation pcess has meant for u. >> for me, we spo about being kids and growi up together and i'm not just sayinghis because i'm here, t you have also been a source of inspition for m the challees that i faced growing up, i chos to focus o what i could do to collaborate

with someone and h we could win together or pulling t potive characteristicsnd qualities from those, ether they're my prs orentors that really inspire me. for me motivationnd what i lk about in the boo is not only appreciating and unrstanding where you are, but seei where you want to and reallyrying to figure o a way tha it's a win-win situatiofor those who can help you get there. tavis: how does that apply for peopleho are trying toind ways t reinvent themselvein this economy? there is so many peoe, as you know, frnds of ours, in fact, who are lookingor opportunitiebecause the economy hasownsized them, pushed em to the margins. this is one of the moments in you see iright becomes an opportunity to revicinity yourself. talk about that in ter of what you address in theook. >>hat is really iortant, you asked me about what was fferent or the conast beeen music and sports. i answethe questn byaying whathe speed spot was and where they overlap.

i think that several this in this economy, fit and foremostif you develop a skill inusiness that is a core ski tt you can apply inny industry, you make youelf more valuable. one of the most portant things, l things being equal, ople do business with those th they know and they like. so relationships areritically important in the busess. i think when i go into a situion and my advice to people when ey're trying to find opptunities is not only to find what makeshat person tick that you're tking to, but real how do you help them become successful in whateve it is that they're charged to with theirompany or organizati which would motiate them to hire you. that translates into any industry, but it does require studying ausiness, studying the organization and the indivial that you're dealing with. tavis: it seems sple but it's worth asking, i think. how does oneo about -- this is your srting point. you got to know and learn what makes themick. how do you do that?

there have beenechniques and things tt people have done on a very supercial level in terms of complimenting tho, beinaround. i think itequires effective stening. i think that it requir patience. in ts age of technology, it requires little bit of resech. when you hava few minutes, if you will, to interact with somee, it's amazing, u know, with a f phone calls and resear and things that you can find as conveation starters. r me, i thinkhat the most important thing is to break down those initial barriers and to show people tha you're ininl inrested in them as a human being and finding out the this that mivates the tavis: president obama,, he has raed the bar for african-amerans in so many ways and i think a lot of people are hopinghat it's not just about him, but tha it extends to the rest of us. we happen to be ople of color, that we will get opportunities that have not come our way yet. you ve been very successful as african-american figing

your w, shall i say, into nontditional opportunities like nascar, for example. talk to me about being a person of color in this world and not beg afrd findi the courage to go in se nonconventional directions. >> one of the things i disss in t book is getting a core oup of people that sometimes give youhat confidentl and keep yourounded -- confidence, and keep you grounded. another comnent is my spirual grounding. when you have the confidee that there is some dine plan and en you have surunded yourse with people that yo can ust that can keep you grounded and foced, it allow you to take a ew risks. i thk that there are a few of us tt have been blessedith the opportunity to he a plform, but we ao have an obligati, in my opinion, to createpportunities for other people and i d find that for me, it's lot easier when i try to surund myself with people who are re positive, who have taken risks thatave both succeedednd failed and being open to that advice and counsel

from those w have gone bore you have experienced something that you haven. tavis: the new book fromax siel is called "who at makes them tic" max, good to he you on the prram. that's our show for tonig. catch me on e weekends on pri, public radio international. you can access ourebcast on pbs.org. untithen, good night from los angeles, thanks for tching and as alws, keep the faith. >> forore information on today's show, visitavis smiley at p.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. jo me next time for a conversation with former "married... th children" star ed o'neill on his latest serious, "modern family." th's next time. we'll see you then. >> there are so manyhings that wal-mart is looking forward doing like helpi people live tter, but mostly we'reooking forward touilding stronger communities and relationships. because of your help, thbest is yet tme. nationwide insurance proudl suppor tavis smiley.

tavis and nationwide insurae, working tomprove financial literacy and the economic empowerment that comes with it. >>ationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions toour pbs statiofrom viewers like you. ank you.