captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> brown: good evening. i'm jeffrey brown. limited air traffic may resume tomorrow after being grounded by volcanic ash for five days. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight, the shutdown has cost the airlines more than $1 billion. we will hear from our ray suarez, who is one of 40,000 americans stranded in great britain. >> brown: then, marcia coyle of the "national law journal" fills us in on arguments in two supreme court cases, one centered on freedom of speech, the other workplace privacy.

>> woodruff: tom bearden reports on american catholics reacting to the sex abuse scandals plaguing the vatican. >> reporter: here in denver some catholics feel betrayed and have left the church entirely while others believe the pope is being unfairly targeted. >> brown: we look at the merits and the fallout from fraud charges filed against goldman sachs. >> woodruff: margaret warner talks to andrew kohut about his latest poll showing mounting distrust in the government. >> brown: and we mark the 15th anniversary of the oklahoma city bombing with excerpts from today's ceremony. >> we come here to remember those who were killed, those who survived, and those changed forever. >> brown: that's all ahead on tonight's newshour. major funding for the pbs newshour is provided by: >> will your savings be enough to fund your retirement? what will happen if your spouse outlives you by many years?

what will happen if you outlive your savings? pacific life knows that tomorrow's questions require planning today. with financial solutions and strength, pacific life can help you and your financial professional develop a plan. pacific life. the power to help you succeed. ♪ chevron. this is the power of human energy. intel. spochbsors of tomorrow.

sponsors of tomorrow. and by earth grains. and by grant thornton. the national science foundation. supporting education and research across all fields of science and engineering. and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and... this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> brown: airlines and stranded passengers across europe pressed for action today to get them flying again. and european union officials moved to break the grip of that volcanic ash cloud from iceland.

ray suarez is in london with this report. >> suarez: today brought another day of empty skies , quiet skies, and costly skies. from the hundreds of millions already lost by grounded airlines and the anticipated millions in losses to come to the mangos not being shipped through a big british importer to a flower seller in london sojo for more than 40 years. facing his election opponents once again this week and the british voters in a few weeks, prime minister gordon brown ordered the royal navy to pick up scattered and stranded british subjects. >> it will be sent to the channel. and it will be available at channel ports as soon as possible to help people come to britain. >> suarez: the safety and operations editor for a leading international aviation news service, david leermont

says the caution surrounding opening airports in the world's most crowded air space is understandable. >> the reason why the air traffic control organization has said controlled air space is closed at the moment and you may not use it is because they know there is a risk . they don't know what the size of that risk is. that's not their fault. >> suarez: part of the problem, he says, is is that after previous eruptions there was a response that always worked. >> the way that aviation has always dealt with volcanic ash clouds in the past is to say we know where they are. let's fly around them. >> but pressure is building on european regulators to get jets airborne and stop the catastrophic losses. >> it's embarrassing and it's a european mess. we did not have the needed leadership. it took five days to organize

a conference call with the minister of transport. we were losing $200 million revenues a day, 750,000 passengers stranded all over. does that make sense? >> suarez: there's been a wide range of reaction to being stranded from testy to serene. this egyptian businessman has been sleeping at heathrow airport since saturday. >> i'm very angry. i want to get home. nobody cares about... (sighs) can you tell me what we can do? even if we are finished with our money, what we can do? >> suarez: a teacher from palermo leading a group of 39 italian high schoolers through britain who is wondering what to do with them next. >> we have been here for five days. we are going to leave but coming here we are finding the situation, this terrible situation and we are trying to

listen to further instructions about ... we are limbo passengers, suspended, waiting for. we don't know what. >> suarez: and virginian loretta says the delay was fun at first. >> my largest fund-raiser. i have 4,000 people at an event on thursday. i'm not there. i've spent the last nine months planning it for my work. then i'm stuck here. this was a fun a day or two. now it's more than stressful. >> suarez: the allens from oklahoma city are now nervously cutting back on meals as the expense of unplanned four days in london are taking their toll. >> if we get delayed past saturday , military hop or ship we're going one or the other. >> suarez: one reason hundreds of thousands of people are stuck is that the weather is stuck too. now normally in april in northwestern europe, the prevailing winds and the frequent rain would have long since broken up that cloud of volcanic ash and smoke.

instead, a weather system has stalled over northwestern europe and the british isles leaving the volcanic cloud right where it is. in other words, it's not the vol cano. it's the weather. which means the only things flying over heathrow until at least tomorrow are the birds. in the village of stan-will- moore, forces can relax underneath what is normally the flight path of heathrow, one of the world's busiest airports . >> talk to people. >> suarez: thasilence comes at a golden price for others. >> i was talking to a west africa n in london who wanted us to get into the cashew business, nuts. when somebody told me that my black berry , the business has come to a grinding halt. >> suarez: blue skies limited, it imports so much tropical produce particularly mangos

from gan a in africa that it represents much of the gross national product. this man imports 30 tons of fruit a day and runs four factories. his reliance on air shipping made him vulnerable to big losses when planes were grounded. >> it doesn't matter who you are, whether you're a television station or you're a manufacturer like we are, if you stop the revenue there comes a point when you simply go. we are at this moment in a series of meetings looking at various scenarios. >> suarez: ronnie's flower shop is one of globalization's many ground zero. >> they would philadelphia plane up of just flowers. then they distribute it to birmingham and all over the place. >> suarez: those flowers are already starting to disappear from local flower markets. fruits and vegetables from africa and the middle east will soon follow. for those who have had enough of uncertainty there's the

option of a long-haul bus to a ferry and more buses to head deeper into europe. but even a 15 or 20-hour bus ride could mean waiting for days for a ticket. big european carriers have sent test flights up over the last few days and reporting good results. safe conditions. no engine damage. the displaced have seen surprising mini-vacations turn into lost wages, missed appointments and heavy out of pocket expenses. relief may be coming. the german carrier will be the first big airline back in service with flights starting tonight slowly chipping away at an enormous backlog. >> our advice for clients and passengers is to follow information exactly from the internet or call centers to check if their flight can depart. it will take a while until normal flight traffic resumes. >> suarez: and france is now telling carriers using its air

space they can gradually begin flying again in designated caution zones. >> woodruff: still to come on the newshour, two big cases at the supreme court; the split among catholics in denver; ripple effects from the charges against goldman sachs; americans angry at their government; and oklahoma city, 15 years later. but first, the other news of the day. here's hari sreenivasan in our newsroom. >> sreenivasan: the death toll neared 2,000 today in the earthquakes that ravaged western china last week, but search teams rescued three more survivors. state television showed an elderly women being taken to the hospital. she'd been trapped since wednesday, when her mud house collapsed. relatives kept her alive by passing food and water to her through gaps in the wreckage. in pakistan, a pair of bombings killed 23 people and wounded 40 in peshawar. nearly all of the victims were killed at a political rally for a party sympathetic to the taliban. the target appeared to be police guarding the event. the top two leaders of al-qaeda in iraq have been killed.

prime minister nouri al-maliki made the announcement at a news conference in baghdad. he said the two men died sunday night in a joint operation involving iraqi and u.s. troops near the city of tikrit. >> i would like to announce that our forces were able to kill two men. the intelligence information led to the arrest of many al qaeda members during the operation that killed the two leaders who were forced to hide in a hole in the house which was surround by iraqi forces. >> sreenivasan: u.s. military officials confirmed the killings. and in washington, vice president biden said the deaths were "potentially devastating blows to al qaeda in iraq." iraq's election review board ordered a recount today of ballots cast in baghdad in last month's election. prime minister al-maliki has claimed fraud in the march vote for parliament. his bloc finished second, just behind a coalition led by former prime minister iyad allawi. toyota will pay the u.s.

government a record fine of $16.4 million for safety violations. the transportation department accused the automaker of failing to report accelerator problems in a timely manner. toyota denied any wrongdoing, but said it wanted to avoid a "protracted dispute." also today, the company recalled the 2010 lexus gx 460 after "consumer reports" warned it's prone to rolling over. for the record, toyota is an underwriter of the newshour. on wall street today, blue-chip stocks made up some of the ground they lost on friday. the dow jones industrial average gained 73 points to close at 11,092. but the nasdaq fell 1 point to close at 2480. the russian government served notice today that a freeze on u.s. adoptions will stay in force until a new agreement is in place. talks were to begin today, but the ash cloud over europe prevented the u.s. delegation from getting to moscow. the russians imposed a freeze last week after a tennessee woman sent her adopted son back to russia by himself. those are some of the day's main stories.

i'll be back at the end of the program with a preview of what you'll find tonight on the newshour's web site. but for now, back to judy. >> woodruff: u.s. supreme court justices heard arguments today in two big cases. first up was a clash over free speech rights of religious groups on college campuses and school anti-discrimination policies. the second case dealt with text messaging and workplace privacy. marcia coyle of the "national law journal" was at the court today, and she joins us now. >> my pleasure, judy. >> woodruff: marcia, let's start with the second case. these are complaints by california police officers that their employers violated their privacy by looking at the text messages they sent using government-provided pagers. >> that's right, judy. this is a fourth amendment case. the fourth amendment, as you know, protects us against government actions. so we're talking here about public employers, not private employers. >> woodruff: and is the issue

here what the government... what they were using the pagers for or was it the content or the fact that they were using them at all? >> the issue here has to do with whether these public employees, these swat team members, had what's known as a reasonable expectation of privacy in their text messages. the lower courts found that they did have a reasonable expectation and that the city's audit of their text messages was unreasonable because it was excessively intrusive. >> woodruff: what kinds questions were the justices asking? >> it's the city that has brought the case to the supreme court. so the city's attorney kent rich mond said that the city had in place a computer policy that said there was no privacy in the use of the computers or associated equipment. it was a policy that was written and was signed by these officers. so they had no reasonable

expectation of privacy. he also said that later when they received the pagers, there was a meeting in which they were told that the same no-privacy policy that was applied to e-mails applied to the pagers. later on one of the lower-level superviseors modified that policy to say, well, if you go over the character allotment on your text messages and you pay for them i'm not going to audit them. the city argued that that modification did not override the city's written no-privacy policy. >> woodruff: you were telling us that the justices were very interested in this case. >> it's a difficult case. chief justice roberts was probably the more skeptical person, justice, today during the argument. he said, well, look, we're looking at this from the officer's perspective. what is his reasonable expectation of privacy? he was told these pagers can be used for light personal use, which he did, that if he paid

for the overages-- he did pay for the overages-- and if he paid for the overages he would not be audited. didn't he have a reasonable expectation? doesn't that all add up to that? and the city attorneys said no not if he was told at the same time that emails and text messages were the same as far as privacy goes. >> woodruff: without getting too complicated there were two other questions involved in the case. two other issues. >> yes, they were. it had to do with whether the city's search was reasonable and also whether the people who sent the officers text messages had a reasonable expectation of privacy. i should say that the police officers' attorney argued that really the privacy guarantee here came from the lieutenant, the lower-level superviseor, and that the computer policy never addressed pagers and it's the responsibility of the city to set out clearly the rules. >> woodruff: marcia, this

obviously involves a government-run workplace , police department. but is there interest, is there additional concern here because whatever the court decides could be expanded, interpreted to affect workplace as well? >> yes. the city had help today in the argument from deputy solicitor general for the obama administration. he cautioned the court to move carefully here in constitutionalizing fourth amendment rules in this area because the technology is so much in flux. and also he pointed out that there are millions of employees today using this technology. there are just as many employers with no privacy policies. so he urged the court and so did a number of amicus groups who files briefs in this case to go very slowly and cautiously. we don't really know what society's expectation of privacy is in yet text

messages so it will be a difficult dilemma for the court. >> woodruff: any sense of whether the justices were hearing that? >> i think so. but i think that they were struggling with, well, how do you find out? what is a reasonable expectation of privacy? what do you look for when you're dealing with these kinds of messages? and also some of them weren't quite clear on how the technology operated. although i think they were educated a little more today than they had been in the past. >> woodruff: now the other case, marcia. this is christian legal society versus martinez much this is a dispute over whether a public law school can deny recognition to a club, in this case a christian student group, because they wouldn't let gays join the club. >> the christian legal society is a national association of lawyers and law students who share a common faith. they try to honor jesus christ in the practice of law. the student group here had in its by-laws that anybody could come in and be a member but if

you want to be a voting member or an officer, you had to sign a statement of faith. that included a promise that you wouldn't engage in sins of nature such as homosexual conduct, fornication and adultery. they claim that the law school's non-discrimination policy violated their first amendment rights of association, free speech, and exercise of religion. >> woodruff: what was the counterargument from the law school? >> the law school says that its non-discrimination policy is basically an all-comers policy. you can't discriminate on the basis of someone's status or on the basis of their beliefs. it said that if it allowed student groups to make exceptions, it would be forced into drawing lines. you know, whose beliefs should be excluded? whose should be included? it had every right to say it doesn't want to draw lines.

this forum... these student organizations, if they want official recognition, should be open to everybody. >> woodruff: what were the justices saying? what were you hearing in their questions? >> this again is something of a tough situation for the justices. michael mcconnell was representing the student group here. he argued that if you're going to put limits on a public forum like the law school has created, they have to be reasonable and have to be related to the purpose of the forum. he said they're not related here. the purpose is is to create diversity among groups. . but look how destructive the policy is, he said. student chapters of the naacp, for example, would have to allow racists to be members. some of the justices accepted that. justice alito said he thought this policy was just weird. he said you're requiring a christian group to allow atheists to conduct bible studies. but other justices thought,

well, now, wait a minute. you know, you're saying you should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of belief. this doesn't sound quite right. why isn't it reasonable for the school to say, we don't want to draw lines here? let's have everybody come in. they also... the law school's attorney greg garr pointed out there has never been any evidence that a group has been sabotaged by members who don't believe in the group's purpose or objectives. in the 20 years, he said, that this policy has been in effect. >> woodruff: all right. two interesting cases. two important cases. we'll be watching for the court's ruling. marcia coyle, thanks very much. >> my pleasure. >> brown: next, american catholics respond to the troubles of their church.

at the vatican today, pope benedict xvi celebrated his fifth anniversary as pontiff with a private lunch with cardinals. the official vatican newspaper reported the pope spoke of the church as a "wounded sinner"-- words that came as he and the church continue to face criticism around the world for the way they've handled the sexual abuse cases. newshour correspondent tom bearden looks at how catholics in the denver area are reacting. ♪ >> reporter: lynn green grew up catholic, attended kath look schools through college and considered priests and nuns her friends. she goes to church regularly. >> the first reading is from the acts of the apostles. chap ter 9 versus 1-20. >> reporter: but not to a catholic church. this is st. joseph episcopal church in sub urban denver. she said she made that decision because she believes the catholic hierarchy deliberately covered up the fact that priests were abusing children.

>> i know i am not the only person who feels betrayed by the hierarchy . i am certainly not the only person who feels they can no longer attend mass. i would say that i feel like i'm in exile. that's exactly how i feel. it's very hard. because i love my church. >> reporter: over the weekend, pope benedict met with victims of abuse in malta. that, coupled with the recent vatican statement that priests who molest would be brought to justice, are just the latest developments in a months' long controversy over the pope's past role in sex-abuse cases. >> the holy father has met a group of persons who were sexually abused by members of the clergy. he was deeply moved by their stories and expressed his shame and sorrow. >> reporter: critics charge that benedict didn't do enough

about abusive priests when was an arch bishop in germany. his recent apology to catholics in ireland for another scandal there has not quieted the criticism. >> far far too late to be coming out with a letter like this. it should have actually come out a long long time ago. >> reporter: these latest developments have brought fresh attention to a story that is quite familiar to american catholics where sex abuse scandals have attracted national media attention since 2002. we asked a number of catholics in the denver area from the devout to the critical what they think of the way the vatican has handled the issue and whether or not it's affected their faith. she believes that the pope personally covered up abuse cases and the entire church leadership shares the blame. >> i think the system is corrupt. not in the people who go to church. i'm in the church as people. but in the hierarchy. i think the hierarchy is

corrupt because they have covered this up. and to just dismiss any charges and just have no concern about children at all is beyond my comprehension. it is totally beyond my comprehension. >> reporter: she wants the church to open the records on past abuses and give financial compensation to victims. fernando and claire chavez view the scandal very differently. they're life-long catholics and the parents of five small children. we visited them on a sunday morning as they struggled to get their kids ready to attend mass. >> believe it or not i think we're good to go. >> reporter: the chavezes think the pope has been wrongly attacked. >> i think the recent coverage of pope benedict has been unfair i do. i know a lot of catholics who feel the same way. you're not getting the whole story. until you see both sides, you know, it's hard to make a judgment as to what's going on. >> reporter: mrs. chavez has

sympathy for the victims but says the entire church shouldn't be condemned for the actions of a relative few. >> it sounds to me like individuals made some bad decisions. again it can't color everybody. i believe that there's... i mean as human beings we sometimes lean towards conspiracy theories. >> reporter: the chavezes say the scandal hasn't affected their faith or their relationship with the church. in fact one of their sons is an altar boy and another will join him. denver is about 13% catholic and is home to regis university, colorado's only catholic college. sister peg maloney has been director of university ministry at the jesuit school since 2005. >> i was working in a diocese in colorado springs, the bishop's office, when it was first sort of exploding in the united states. when boston and baltimore and new york and all of those archdiocese were being investigated. it's horribly shocking.

it's appalling in so many ways and at so many different levels. >> reporter: she believes when the allegations first surfaced, church leaders were led astray by psychiatrists who said abusers could be cured. >> so in one sense, i believe that there were some bishops who were acting on the best advice they could get at that time. but later on, i think when it became apparent that they were moving them around in order to avoid scandal or avoid repeated behavior, they were operating partly on their own ignorance and partly in defense of the church trying not to create a scandal. and in some cases to protect the identity of victims as well. >> reporter: a new chapter in the story recently unfolded in denver. a popular priest at a large sub urban catholic church, father mel thompson was accused of molesting a child nearly 40 years ago. the archdiocese said the priest was relieved of his duties the day after the

allegation was made ending an internal investigation. the sister says the speed of that action shows the u.s. church has changed. >> i think there is no question that in north america the church has responded dramatically and in many cases very effectively in terms of responding to the needs of people who were victimized. and i think whatever is erupting now in ireland and germany and other places in the world, i think they're going to follow the pattern of what the u.s. bishops did here. >> reporter: the archdiocese says the steps taken were man dayed by the u.s. conference of catholic bishops in 2002 and are not a new policy. but speed still surprised many. >> that is a huge change . we'll see how it, you know, proceeds from here. >> reporter: stan current remains skeptical. he first became an advocate for abuse survivors in 2002 while living in boston. >> confronting the church was almost like confronting your mother.

there seemed to be denial and just trying to sweep everything under the carpet. >> reporter: he says that after years of trying to comfort victims and demanding the church accept responsibility he finally left the church altogether although he says he is still a devout christian. >> it's really about having a personal relationship with the lord , and the church or any institution can either help in that or hinder it. i cannot go back to the church until survivors feel like the church is being more responsive and in doing more to protect children. >> reporter: last week the vatican made clear for the first time what it said was a long-standing policy, that church officials should report abuse cases to police if local laws required it. but the statement did not specifically call for a zero tolerance policy. jeb barrett wasn't impressed. >> i find it amusing because some of us would assume that that should have been the policy all along. >> reporter: barrett, an abuse

survivor and director of the denver chapter of snap or survivors network of those abused by priests, believes the church will continue to try to cover up most abuse cases. >> we are more concerned about the continuing cover-up of complaints against the church and against priests, bishops and nuns . because of the kind of publicity this is getting now. >> reporter: the turmoil shows no sign of quieting down internationally. a cnn poll shows 74% of american catholics disapproved of how the church has dealt with the problem of sexual abuse. at the parish level, the chavezes say their experience is the u.s. church's moving to protect children more effectively. >> i teach catechism. before i could even teach that i had to take a class on awareness of , you know, certain behaviors and what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. >> reporter: claire chavez says her parish is being very

cautious about who it allows around children, running background checks on everyone. >> it shows that the church is really taking this seriously. that this is not a small thing. even though it's a small number of people who have done it. they are looking i think in every corner to make sure that this doesn't happen again. >> reporter: as for father mel thompson, the latest priest accused of abusing a child, police say that even if the allegation can be proven, the statute of limitations ran out long ago, making criminal prosecution impossible. >> brown: now, the fallout from the government's decision to take on one of wall street's most powerful investment banking firms. >> if the goldman issue a temporary blip for the markets or a catalyst for a real sell off. >> brown: that question and others were very much in the air today even as stocks recovered a bit. as the civil fraud charges against goldman sachs raised concerns about how far the

government would go. in fact the wall street journal reported today the securities and exchange commission is investigating other major financial firms. on friday, the s.e.c. accused goldman of defrauding investors by failing to disclose that it was marketing sub prime mortgage securities while at the same time betting against them through a large hedge fund. essentially the agency claims goldman was setting up some clients in a bet that was designed to fail. the s.e.c. said hedge fund manager john paulsen helped create the securities and made millions on the deal himself. in washington, the case quickly entered the debate on financial regulation reform. senate kban beinging committee chair christopher dodd. >> our bill would have prevented that kind of an event from happening in my view. that's what the public needs to know. >> reporter: meanwhile scrutiny of goldman moved beyond the u.s., british and german authorities said they would investigate further

whether their banks were victims of wrongdoing. >> brown: more on this now from john singer, an attorney with the law firm more now from john singer, an attorney with the law firm singer deutsch, who's represented many clients in cases against the securities and exchange commission. and michael greenberger, university of maryland law professor, and an official at the commodity futures trading commission during the clinton administration. >> thank you. >> brown: professor greenberger, start with the particulars of the goldman case. why do you think it was important for the s.e.c. to bring it and what's the essence of their argument? >> well, it's important because it unveils to the american tax payer who has funded this entire casino operation that aside from the fact that there were mortgages that should never have been entered into maybe by fraud themselves, the bigger part of the meltdown is the betting that took place on whether the mortgages were to be paid. in this situation, john paulsen, the hedge fund manager, made the perfectly logical conclusion that he wanted to bet against people paying mortgages and he wanted to pick the most likely

mortgages, group of mortgages in what are technically called collateralized debt obligations that would fail. it was almost a lock, but the trouble is they had to find someone who would take the bet. the allegation the s.e.c. has here is that goldman was the intermediary that found investors to take the opposite side of the bet, not realizing they had a very, very long shot, that is, they were betting that people who couldn't afford their mortgages would pay their mortgages. >> brown: john singer, is the line of legality clear here? what do you see in the s.e.c. case? >> oh, i don't think so at all. i think that the s.e.c. has a very, very difficult uphill battle ahead of them because there are certain elements that they have to prove such as materiality and intent that i think they're going to have a very difficult time proving. there's no question that there's a ethical issue and perhaps a moral issue. in a court of public opinion goldman would certainly be convicted.

but it's a different story to get found civilly liable under the securities law. i think ultimately goldman will prevail. >> brown: expand a little bit on that ethical versus legal issue. on the one hand creating side bets is standard procedure on wall street. a lot of the institutional investors involved here are part of these trades routinely. so what happened in this case that suggests the question of ethics? >> well, the question here is whether or not goldman had a disclosure obligation to make to the institutional investors. in other words, if paulsen, if it's true that paulsen and company was helping to select the underlying mortgage-backed securities that were into this collateralized debt obligation, then raps that should have been disclosed but at the end of the day that probably wouldn't have been a material fact to these institutional investors because at this time in late '06 early '07 paulsen was a bit player.

they were more or less irrelevant. they are not what they are seen today as the guru who saw this whole thing coming. back then in late '06 early '07 pretty much everybody was long real estate. that's why you had this insatiable appetite to keep creating these types of instruments. any instance intugsal investor who may have known that paulsen was participating in the creation of these securities probably wouldn't have cared. that's the biggest hurdle the s.e.c. has to overcome. >> brown: professor greenberger, you would accept there's an ethical issue but you think there may well be a legal issue. >> i was a litigator for 25 years. it won't make a decision based on someone's complaint but if the allegations in the complaint are true, goldman misled the people that took the opposite end of paulsen's debt. by the way, in 2006 right up to september 15, 2008, people did not winlyman brothers sales. people did not fully understand that this market was going to collapse.

for everybody who thought it was going to collapse and wanted to bet it was going to collapse, there were prominent institutions many of which have been bailed out by the american tax payer that were betting that these mortgages would be paid. what the allegation is that paulsen created the bet so it was almost certain he would win, but the people, the companies that took the opposite end of the paulsen bet were never told that paulsen had created the bet. they thought he was going to be investing on their side. that's the allegation here that goldman knew these bets were likely to fail that they were selling, and that the person who created the lock, so to speak, was designing the bets and the investors who accepted goldman's offer to engage in this transaction never realized that. >> brown: i want to ask you both how widespread these practices are. starting with you, john singer.

that wall street journal article i referred to said the s.e.c.'s case against goldman friday has exposed an open secret on wall street. that a lot of these kinds of debts were taking place. what do you think of that? how widespread a practice might this be? >> i think that's a true statement. back in '06 and '07 as i alluded to earlier there was really an insatiable appetite for these types of exotic instruments because everybody with the exception of a few were long housing and believed that the mortgages would get paid. >> brown: long housing means, meaning that they thought the housing boom would continue? >> that's correct. i think that it wasn't only the people who owned homes that thought that but it was also many of the institutional investors, retail investors and the like. that's why there was such a demand for these types of instruments. that's why wall street got very creative and started building up more of these.

there was the cdo and the synthetic cdo. at that time there were probably billions upon billions of dollars into these instruments so you read today probably that deutsche bank was creating them. ubs was creating them. why they went after goldman begs the question, if everybody was doing it, why goldman? i think that really dove tails into the political agenda behind all of this. that is is that goldman is the biggest fish out there. they're the ones who have engendered most of the populist vitreol towards wall street. that's why they went after goldman not so coincidentally on the raging debate about wall street. i think there will be more action brought. >> brown: what do you think. >> i think that's absolutely right. it was very widespread. i think goldman and other transactions followed the same pattern, whether it's fraud or not will be seen. but many other institutions were engaged in this.

every time you say the people were betting that housing prices would go up, there has to be another end of that bet. they were betting that housing prices would go down. what happened was this is a completely deregulated market. congress deregulated it in december of 2000. nobody was supervising it. nobody knew about it. it was gambling but it couldn't be dealt with as gambling because congress preempted gambling laws. so in the end, yes, this is a poster child for the activity that took place and the inability of those who were banking the bets to be able to pay them. that's why the american tax payer and in this case the british tax payer has put in billions and billions of dollars to rescue gambling casinos. there's no real economic benefit to this any more than a bet that's issued on who wins a baseball game. >> brown: mr. singer, briefly, you expect we'll see more charges in the coming days? i mention that there's these

investigations in brit and and germany so you expect more to come. >> i do because it seems as if many of the wall street firms and many of the leading banks were marketing and structuring the exact same types of products. you said before it was an open secret. it really was because there were people on one side of the bet and there were people on the other side of the bet, there were people who were bullish on housing and bearish on housing. i think that many of the banks were marketing it in exactly the same way goldman was. that's why you'll see many more actions brought. >> brown: we'll leave it there. thank you both very much. >> thank you. >> you're welcome. >> woodruff: there is fresh evidence that americans are increasingly angry at wall street, at washington, and more. a new poll shows hardening attitudes toward government in particular. margaret warner has our story. >> warner: "distrust, discontent, anger, partisan rancor": that's the headline on an extensive new survey about the public's perception of their government. in a poll of more than 2,500

americans between mid-march and mid-april, the pew research center finds trust in washington to be at its second-lowest point in half a century. we get more from on all this from the center's director, andrew kohut. andrew, welcome back. start with this level of rancor and distrust toward government. how bad is it? >> well, it's one of the low points of the past 40 years. over the... in the post vietnam, post watergate eras from the '70s onwards americans are generally skeptical about government and often distrustful. with 22% of americans say they trust government to do what's right, all or most of the time, you're at the level of the mid 1990s. you're at the level close to the level of the late '70s, the jimmy carter, let's call it the jimmy carter malaise era. there's an extraordinary set of opinions related to this. people are angry at congress

at record levels. 65% say they have an unfavorable view of congress. that's the lowest number we've ever achieved. both political parties get low favorability ratings. federal... departments of government both agencies and departments get much lower ratings than they did ten years ago. it's broad based. >> warner: you poll on a regular basis. shorten the time frame. how do these feelings compare to the way they were just say january of last year just before barack obama became president. >> there was a little spike in trust in government of that point. people were feeling pretty good but a lot of things happened over this period. a perfect storm led to this spike in distrust. 76% say, no, i don't trust them to do it right at all. first of all we have a continuing bad economy and dissatisfaction with the state of the nation. we have republican back lash. we had health care reform

where calling e issue of too much government got very high profile. and generally we have so much discontent with washington that it's poisoned the well for trust in government. a lot has happened over the course of just that one short year. >> warner: last week the "new york times" did a poll of just people who are affiliated or support the tea party movement. they found a high level of anger. judy referred to that in introducing our segment. particularly among tea party supporters. what do you find among the population as a whole on that front. >> over this long period of time where there's more distrust, the level of frustration... most people say they're frustrated with government. it's about comparable to 10 or 15 years ago. >> warner: that's pretty steady. >> pretty steady sentiment but we've seen a small percentage of people who are angry with government go from 12% in 1997 to 21% currently. we also have other related statistics among small blocks of americans.

30% say the government threatens my civil liberties or my personal freedoms. so there is this growth in the segment of people who are really pretty edgy with government. i don't know how else to put it. >> warner: as we know today is the 15th anniversary of the oklahoma city bombing. now president clinton, former president clinton said last week and he was talking about rhetoric not about how people feel. he found the climate was similar to the pre-oklahoma city bombing of '94. do you find that in people's feelings about government? >> well i think it's very tempting to say that the poll findings here are a measure of the degree of dangerous extremism. but i think you have to take some pause. first of all, 99.999% of these people who say they're angry are not violent and disposed to violence. second people are entitled to express angry opinions. the real problem is there's now a larger audience for emotional , radical statements

about government. that can unsettle the unsettled. i'd say it's really hard to parse that issue. >> warner: so i know predictions are very difficult. i'm not asking you to predict but what can you glean from all this data in here that might impact the november elections? i mean you said both parties come in for it in this. what can you tell? >> what we see is that the independents who are the swing voters , a segment of them who are most energized are those who are frustrated with government and the people who are frustrated with government are leaning very heavily at this point in time. problem is with so much discontent about both parties don't take anything for granted right now. too early. >> warner: you're saying they're more motivated to vote.... >> clearly a relationship between frustration with government and voting motivation. >> warner: we shall see. andy kohut, thank you. >> you're welcome.

>> woodruff: finally tonight, the oklahoma city bombing, 15 years later. newshour correspondent kwame holman has the story. ♪ >> reporter: it has become an annual tradition. hundreds of survivors and family members of the victims gathered again today. they met at the oklahoma city national memorial which includes the site where the alfred murrow building stood. on the morning of april 19, 1995 a huge truck bomb exploded just outside the building. it killed 168 people and wounded more than 600 others. the enormous blast also damaged hundreds of millions of dollars of property. today mayor mick cornet said the city refused to let that day be an end. >> we have chosen strength. we have chosen optimism.

we have chosen freedom. and we have chosen to move forward together. with a level of unity that is unmatched in any american city. >> reporter: the principal figure behind the attack was timothy mcveigh a u.s. army veteran and former security guard. he said he was seeking revenge against the tyrannical federal government. he was convicted on federal murder charges and executed in 2001. >> the system works. america is good. >> reporter: mcveigh's accomplice terry nicholls nichols was convicted on federal and state bomb-related charges. he's serving multiple bomb sentences at a federal prison in colorado. the plot unraveled almost immediately when mcveigh was stopped a few hours after the bombing because his car had no license plate. the state trooper who made the arrest, charlie hanger, now is a county sheriff. he led a moment of silence today. >> we come here to remember

those who were killed, those who survived, and those changed forever. may all who leave here know the impact of violence . may this memorial offer comfort , strength, peace, hope , answerenity. please join me in 168 seconds of silence. >> reporter: as they do every year, relatives read the roll call of the dead. >> my grandpa, . >> my mother, rescue worker rebecca needham anderson. >> my brother, captain randolph . >> my sister robin and baby . >> reporter: the oklahoma city bombing still stands as the most destructive act of domestic terrorism in american history. the secretary of homeland

security janet napolitano warned today of the need for continued vigilance. >> we control the way we prepare ourselves , the way we combat threats, and the way we respond is... if something indeed happens. america is a strong nation. we are a resilient nation. as we confront new threats, we will use our values and our way of life as the most powerful sources of our strength. we will do this for now and for years to come. >> reporter: after today's ceremony, many of the family members passed by the memorial's empty chairs representing those lost. and they paused near a large american elm dubbed the survivor tree because it withstood the blast 15 years ago. under a state law signed this month, the bombing and its after math will bng a regular

part of history classes in oklahoma schools. >> brown: again, the major developments of the day. european officials agreed to resume flights on a limited basis. they've been disrupted for five days by ash from the erupting volcano in iceland. and iraqi and u.s. officials announced the top two leaders of al-qaeda in iraq were killed in a raid last night. the newshour is always online. hari sreenivasan in our newsroom previews what's there. there's a link to andy's poll, plus more from him on what the public's attitudes may mean for lawmakers up for reelection this year. miles o'brien is back for a new installment in our newshour plus series on science. he weighs in on proposed changes to the u.s. space program. on art beat, jeff talks to this year's pulitzer winner for poetry, rae armantrout. and you can find links to learn more about tonight's edition of

"american experience," which tells the story of the modern environmental movement. all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. jeff? >> brown: and again, to our honor roll of american service personnel killed in the iraq and afghanistan conflicts. we add them as their deaths are made official and photographs become available. here, in silence, are eight more.

>> brown: and that's the newshour for tonight. i'm jeffrey brown. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. we'll see you online and again here tomorrow evening. thank you, and good night. major funding for the pbs newshour is provided by: we're in the energy business. but we're also in the showing kids new worlds business. and the start-up capital for barbers business. and the "this won't hurt a

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