>> charlie: new york police commissioner ray kelly on the attempt to plant a bomb in a vehicle in times square. >> cops rakes is -- cooperation is the best i've seen among the federal agencies. another lesson for us is that new york remains in the crosshairs. we've had 11 plots against this city since september 11th, 2001. if you ask most people even new york residents how many events or plots do you think have happened in new york city since september 11th? people think that number is way too high. >> charlie: we conclude with a great golfer, tom watson. >> to me it was failing and hating failure. hating the failure. wanting to prove to people that i was not a choker, that i did

not -- that's a terrible moniker to go around in life with, not being able to handle under pressure. and i had that moniker. i think that was -- that inspired me to be a tougher competitor and to understand from a strategic standpoint when i'm under the pressure how to play the game and take some of the risk out of the game. >> charlie: kelly and watson, next. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york

city, this is charlie rose. >> charlie: times square bombing investigation widened. pakistani authorities have arrested many people, here in new york the suspect faisal shahzad has told investigators that he received bomb-making training in the tribal region of waziristan. he's also said that he acted alone late last night federal authorities arrested faisal shahzad, a pakistani u.s. born citizen at john f. kennedy airport. he was on o a dubai bound flight that was called back. his name is on the no fly list before he boarded. attorney general eric holder said shahzad would be charged with terrorism and attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction. >> what we know so far it is clear that this was a terrorist plot aimed at murdering americans in one of the busiest places in our country.

we believe that this terrorist fashioned a bomb from rudimentary ingredients, placed it in a rusty s.u.v. and drove it in to times square with the intent to kill as many innocent tourists and theater goers as possible. make no mistake, the car bomb failed to properly detonate this plot was a very serious attempt. if successful it could have resulted in a lethal terrorist attack causing death and destruction in the heart of new york city. >> charlie: shahzad was arraigned this afternoon, joining me is new york city police commissioner, ray kelly. i'm pleased to have him back on this program. welcome. when did you first hear that there was problems with a van in times square? >> about 7:00 on saturday evening. the initial event started about 6:34 when vendors on the corner

saw smoke coming out of a vehicle, the nissan pathfinder. notified a mounted police officer on horse back. he saw the vehicle smoking, called the fire department on his radio, called for the fire department and he and other police officers in the area, significant number of officers in times square moved people away from the vehicle. i heard about that about 7:00, i was at the white house correspondents dinner with the mayor in washington. these things come in piecemeal fashion. it was report of a suspicious package in the vehicle, it's not a particularly unusual call. even vehicle on fire is not unusual call. what happened, the bomb squad responds they get there some time after 7:00. they see the package, they make a determination that they have to suit up, they hook up a pull

line to the back of the vehicle, opened the door and systematically started to get the device or the elements of the device out of the vehicle. that took -- it took a significant period of time. >> charlie: is it surprising that a vehicle like that could get to times square with that kind of material? >> not really. we're an open city, we're an open society. we have a lot of traffic that goes through times square, we certainly have a lot of people, our tourist numbers are very significant. people drive there, taxi cabs are there, so many vehicles go through times square. the crossroads of the world as we say. >> charlie: what's interesting is the next step. how you and how police work determined who had left the vehicle there. give us the sense of that. >> well, as i say the bomb squad had to get the material out.

that was no easy task, they use a water disrupter on part of that, it's a high-powered water cannon. they then were able to tow the vehicle to a forensic lab that we have in queens, while the bomb material was taken to the range up in the bronx. in the examination of the vehicle they look for what they call the hidden vin number. the dashboard vin number had been removed. so you crawl under the engine block, you find it. that's what our detectives did. now, as a result of that vin number, identified the registered owner, a man in connecticut. he is contacted, turns out that he had turned his vehicle over to a woman, the woman sells the vehicle, puts it on craigslist

has a buyer who calls. she sells this vehicle to an individual who uses the particular cell phone, the cell phone number which he had. now, in going through the databases investigators determined that this cell phone was -- had made calls or received calls from a telephone number in pakistan. now, the suspect had used that telephone number in pakistan as a number in an application that he was using to travel outside the country. so they were able based on the phone number that the initial phone call to link it up to the suspect in the application that he had made. after that then the investigators went to connecticut, tried to locate

him, did locate him. had him under surveillance and he then was able to go to kennedy airport, he bought a a one-way ticket when he was in route, driving to the airport, he gets -- makes reservation on the airline, pays cash for the ticket. and he gets on the plane. again he's an american citizen and has a passport. >> charlie: so far, what is primarily new york nypd investigation or in cooperation with fbi and everybody involved. >> well, the fbi and nypd investigators. we are a seamless team in this city. we have almost 130 investigators now working in the joint terrorist task force. new york city police investigators working with the fbi agent. when i say investigators i'm talking about both agencies,

primarily. >> charlie: once you had someone under observation, a suspect, why doesn't -- why don't you arrest him immediately? >> because you need probable cause. to make an arrest, at that time there was not enough to make the arrest, when they initially started the surveillance. now, there was discussion in fact i think there was the production of a material witness warrant which would have been able to take him in to custody for something less than probable cause. >> charlie: also part of the reason to see if he contacts anyone else who might know about what he's going on? >> i think while he's under surveil apps is build up a case or build you up enough information to get probable cause to make an arrest. a lot of other avenues they're exploiting the telephone, seeing who else was contacted by the phone, doing more of history on

the vehicle, other vehicles that were registered to this individual. he had left keys in the car -- >> charlie: and weapons? >> well, he had purchased the weapon in march. a tech 9 sort of semi automatic handgun that has a rifle stock on it and rifle barrel that you can attach to it. so in essence a handgun that you can make in to a rifle. >> charlie: in a vehicle that was left at the airport? >> this was ultimately found the vehicle. but the investigators didn't know that if he was in the house with the weapon, knew he had purchased it. this is in charging documents in the papers, it was found with several magazines of ammunition in the vehicle behind the seat, behind the driver sees in a computer case. >> charlie: why did they let him board the plane? >> why did they let him board the plane? i don't know. i don't know all the answers.

customs and border protection -- >> charlie: he was on a list. >> i think again, i don't know all the details of how they produce a list but i think there was an issue as to when that list is ultimately published. when it gets to the airlines, this individual was only put on the list yesterday, as the investigation went forward. >> charlie: hours before he was arrested. yes. >> charlie: what's interesting i'm asking, he was allowed to get on a plane, he was under surveil apps, allowed to get on a plane, allow to plane to leave -- and get on the runway. then call it back in. >> there was a period of time when he wasn't under surveillance. >> charlie: not at that point. clearly had to be under surveillance, didn't he? >> i don't believe he was under surveillance when he got on the plane. he gets on a plane and this is what happens when you are involved in these investigations.

it's not that easy to surveil someone up close for significant period of time. looks like somehow able to allude that surveillance, and make it to the airport. >> charlie: got to the airport, got on the plane. then -- customs and border protection people realized that they had a match with the no fly risk. >> charlie: also had to show his passport to get on the plane or driver's license or something. >> ticket as well. what happens is, you have to build a manifest. i think that's one of the things that customs checks but it takes time and they try to do that as close to when the plane is taking off as possible. because people get off the plane, names change, they want to wait for as close to the depature time as possible. >> charlie: should a conclusion be made here that we

all fear and wonder why they have not been huge, sort of star bombs, we assume part is because of superior police work at the local, state and federal level. on the other hand, this person seems to be rather incompetent at putting together the right materials. suppose he's been more competent, would he have been successful? >> i think that's an interesting point. because we have made it very difficult in this country to get those materials. difficult to get legitimate explosives, virtually impossible if you're in the business of doing demolition, that sort of thing. it's a heavily licensed area. so that's where you see azzizi and cooking in a hotel. this individual seemed to put together a system that worked. but he didn't have the access to

proper material. he tried to substitute. he bought fireworks, m88 fireworks. and significant quantities in pennsylvania. and brought them back to substitute for an explosive. i think i would be cautious in characterizing as being amateurish. he tried to do what he wanted to do with the materials that he had available to him. >> charlie: more likely, he learned how to do it perhaps in waziristan, which is -- >> he says he has admitted were in the charging documents, in the complaint, that he went to terrorist training in waziristan. >> charlie: is he cooperating? >> yes. >> charlie: what do we know about him? what do we know about his

family? what do we know about what happened to him -- >> the more of this comes out eventually. he's in custody less than 24 hours. but he's 30-year-old naturalized u.s. citizen, naturalized in 2009. he has a wife and two children in peshwa, pakistan. he once worked for elizabeth arden. he's living by himself, he lived on second floor of three-family house. as i say, more details will be coming out as we talk to him. >> charlie: why did he want to do this? >> i think general feeling of his religion being under tacked, words to that affect. >> charlie: felt like his reledge on was under attack by america or americans. >> just sort of general terms. this is what he's saying.

>> charlie: do we think when he went back to pakistan where he got the training that he was even more heavily influenced? how come this guy ends up doing this thing. >> that's an excellent question. we'd like to know that. but i think it's too early to make those sorts of determinations. so, we're encouraged by the fact that he is cooperative. we'll take that information and investigators certainly on federal level will be -- >> charlie: has pakistani government talked to him? >> no. he is a u.s. citizen. >> charlie: i understand that. he has a pakistani connection, they may know -- is his family coming to see him? do we know anything about -- >> not so far. what are the lessons of this which is the important thing? first of all there's apple's on of cooperation among law

enforcement at every level. a second is sort of how an age of huge databases and cell phone recordings, you can develop a trail. >> absolutely. those two lessons are good ones. the use of technology of course is so important, so central to investigating and stopping the terrorism. you mentioned cooperation. cooperation is the best i've seen among federal agencies. another lesson for us is that new york remains in the crosshairs. we've had 11 plots against this city since september 11th, 2001. if you ask most people even new york residents how many

events or plots do you think have happened in new york city since september 11th, people think that number is way too high. but it isn't. it means to us in law enforcement that they will continue to try to come here. we're doing everything we reasonably can. we have open society, an open city and it's challenging to protect it. >> charlie: some say inevitably they will be successful. >> we certainly hope it's not here. we're doing more than any city in the world as far as i know to protect new york. we go to other places, we certainly like to see as much protection given to the rest of the country, but i think this underscores the fact that new york is seen as america in the eyes of terrorists. it's communication capital, financial capital -- >> charlie: media capital.

>> twice, in 1993 and of course the horrific events of won. of 2001. we believe, intelligence community believes that this is the number one target in the united states. if you see azzazi recently -- i see this individual there's a focus on new york city. no other city is experiencing anything like this in this country. >> charlie: was he part of a larger organization? >> we don't know. >> in waziristan -- >> does that make him part of an organization? we don't know. >> charlie: did he say he was? >> this process is ongoing. he's being cooperative and -- >> charlie: he hasn't said he's acting 'lone or with someone. >> he says he was acting alone. >> charlie: he does?

some. >> yes. >> do you believe him? >> he says that he made this bomb by himself in the garage of the rental unit that he was -- we will see. >> charlie: you normally when something like this happens, clearly this has happened in new york but there's a link to pakistan. my guess is you got policemen on their way to karachi right now who want to talk to the people there or because eighths federal investigation? >> that's true. again, we have new york city police officers embedded in the joint terrorist task force. they're acting in a federal capacity. sure, investigators will certainly try to, as best they can, to reconstruct what happened with this individual. >> >> charlie: any tool you need that you don't have? >> we always like to have more police officers, we'd like to have more technology, we'd like to have more cameras in midtown

manhattan. you have 500,000 cameras in london. we have manhattan security initiative, canal street south. we will have about 3,000 cameras, public and private sector cameras, that program is underway. our goal is to move that program, migrate it north to midtown manhattan, 38th street to 60th street have several thousand cameras in that program. we think it's a very valuable tool. it's a crime preventer, certain plea -- >> charlie: we also, i'm under the impression that there was the ability to have somehow a composite of him drawn which was shown to the woman who sold him the car and she said, it's more likely -- one more example of the kind of police work that takes place. >> the woman had an excellent memory. and the sketch looks very much

like him. yes, the artist, the fbi artist did a great job. the woman communicated it of course because that's the key. it was very good sketch, about the best sketch that i have seen. >> charlie: what's next? >> well, hopefully we'll continue to get information and that information will be exploited perhaps telephone information, as you said contacts, is he part of a larger group, we don't know. >> charlie: they have arrested some people in pakistan? >> apparently they have, yes. i don't know the specifics of that. >> charlie: it's difficult, there's so many things that are not known and ongoing investigation you have person who you're trying to have a conversation with him so you can maximize the benefit of what he's telling you. >> that's true. >> charlie: thank you for coming. >> thank you, charlie, always good to be with you. >> charlie: ray kelly. police commissioner, city of new york.

back in a moment. stay with us. >> charlie: tom watson is here, simply regarded as one of golf's greatest players. in career spanning five decades he won eight major championships including five british opens. his chip on the 1982 u.s. open is one of the most memorable shots in golf history. >> this is the shot that he generally plays very well. of course the conditions now that he has to play the shots test anyone. we'll just have to say -- looks good. do you believe it? do you believe it? >> what can you say? tom watson in to the hole for a birdie has taken the lead in the u.s. open, one more par and he has finally won it. >> charlie: he shares his wisdom in a two-disk dvd set called "lessons of a lifetime" i'm pleased to have tom watson at this table for the first time, welcome. >> thank you, charlie.

great to be here. >> charlie: is that the greatest shot you think you ever had? >> one -- probably two or three shots i'll remember all my life. that one, i had long iron, two-iron at burddale in the british open. the shot to the -- last hole this past summer at the 2009 open championship that was shot i'll always rub, too. not for the success of the shot but how it came out. >> charlie: let's talk about that. this is the british open, you're 59 years old. >> long in the tooth. >> charlie: nobody thought you could win before play started on thursday. did tom watson think he could win? >> yes, i did. most golfers that go through life, they go out to the golf course and one part of their game is working, the other part is not. or maybe couple parts are working maybe the putting is not or the chipping, something like

that. on monday went there, played practice round my putting was awful. tuesday i changed something in my putting stroke i started making everything. i've been doing everything well except putting. wednesday's practice round it was beautiful. everything was clicking. wednesday night it was really -- it was a quiet night because the wind died, it was supposed to be quiet on thursday i knew that good round in the 60s had to be shot the next day. most beautiful sunset ever occurred right over the islands in scotland there for the hotel. i looked out the window, i really did say to myself, i said, i have more experience in this course than anybody. it's not too long for me, this will be my 6th major championship. most of the kids are playing for the first time. they will not have played that in the winds that were going to occur on friday through sunday. if i get off to a good start i can be there.

>> charlie: what's important about having played the course six times knowing the course? what does that give you? >> specifics i can, the 16th hole, for instance, there's a berm that goes to the right of the green. most of the players will just shy away. i've learned over the past that you have to challenge that shot and hit it at the berm with the cross winds that come. you have to stick it out there, over the water. that wind, trust the wind. most of the kids just couldn't trust that. they were hitting it off to the left off to the hay and making bogey and double bogey, that's one of the shots that experience really played a great part in. >> charlie: i take you to the 18th hole. you are leading at the 18th hole. if you par the hole, you win the british open and you become even more of a legend than you are. you have a great drive, a great

drive. you're set. you choose what, an 8-iron? >> i have 187, 187 yards to the hole down wind that's a long 8-iron. but i was really thinking between 8 and 9-iron. what do you think? is it eight or nine? neil oxman he calls himself a bag toter but i trust his judgment. we both thought eight. i just wanted to get on the front edge of the green. a good friend of andy north who was working the television that day, i asked him after it was over i said, where did that ball land? he said, tom, it landed right on the front of the green right where i wanted it to. >> charlie: why did it go off the green? >> when i hit it there was an extra gust of wind. >> charlie: things you can't predict. >> i couldn't handle that. you just don't know. >> charlie: you used to not like links. but you learned to love it.

>> actually learned to love it. because i stopped fighting the inconsistencies of the game there. people want to make things perfect. american golf you make things perfect. you get manicured fairways and watered, manicured greens, softer. it cops on the greens a little bit better. over there, you have to rely on the luck of the bounce. luck comes in to play a lot more over there. you have to have her of a feel for distance. plus you have to be really good up and downer. you have to make -- when you miss the green, you have to be able to get the next one close and make -- >> charlie: which we just saw at pebble beach. >> that's right. you have to do that. i was one of the best, in my prime back in those years, i was one of the best at getting the ball up and down. >> charlie: let me take you back to, your drive is great. you have caddy who has been with you how long? >> neil's caddied for me i think

three or four years. >> charlie: you have always paid huge tribute to your caddy, who i guess died in 2004. >> bruce edwards, died of als which we'll talk about. that's quite a story in itself. >> charlie: and you are coming down did you say to your caddy, something about your former cad key? >> on saturday i did. as i played my second thought to the 18th green on saturday. i put the club in the bag, i waited for the other fella to hit and look at neil oxman. neil, he's with us today. he said, don't make me cry. don't worry i'm already crying. bruce was -- he was a special person, his glass is always half full. his enthusiasm was most important thing about his life. he loved what he did and there wasn't a mean bone in his body. >> charlie: how many years together? >> over 30.

>> charlie: wow. you hit that shot going in, you got to come back. >> that ball was in the air, i go back to say that's one of the three shots i'll probably remember the most. when that ball was in the air, i said just like '77. i love it. it's going right at the flag. the only question was, typical links golf question is, did i choose the right club. did i hit it the right distance. and it was in the air, most beautiful shot in the world, chen it trickled over the green it became the cruelest part of the -- >> charlie: you couldn't see it but you could tell by the crowd because they moaned at the end. >> i listened to the crowd. i can't see very far any more, i can see the ball take off but not land. i listened to the crowd, you could hear them moan when it went over the green. >> charlie: you can look back at this now with certain

equanimity say, that was a proud moment for me, i was leading the british open at 59 years old and i could have won the damn thing. that says a whole lot about golf and someone said, there's no question, that tom watson is the greatest 60-year-old golfer in the world would you have been -- >> i had one hour of sleep sunday night. it was a tough night. you play what-if a few times. but i learned over my career that you got to carry on, it's one of the things that bruce, my caddy said, when you make a mistake, just carry on. you got to let it go. and go forward. that's something you learn. you have to learn to do that, anger sometimes takes it's toll. >> charlie: what happened on the putt? >> i hit -- the story is wonderful about this. i look back on it, after it's over i told the press i said, it tears your guts out.

i -- when the ball was in the air, the tournament was mine, when it went over the green now i had to do what i needed to do i didn't carry it out. stuart cynk didn't miss a shot in the playoff, he just killed me. but i said, i did what i wanted to do there, but it really does tear your guts out. again, you got to -- i look back on it for probably about 12 hours. i was going to play practice round at old sunnydale for the senior british open the very next day. i was contemplating, let's punt that, let's forget that. i said to myself, come on, get over this thing, let's get back on the golf course. like falling off a horse, get right back on to it. go out, prepare for the next tournament like i've always done.

that worked for me. that was great therapy for me. as it always has been. >> charlie: did you well at the beginning of the masters, did you say to yourself, watson, you got it going? >> i had a little inspiration at the masters this year. couple things happened down there, my son, michael, and his girlfriend of several years came down and michael asked me three or four months prior to going drown said, "dad, i'd like to ask beth to marry me, but on the golf course." i said, we'll play the golf course on sunday we played the golf course sunday together. he had it all figured out. he duck hook it on 13, the par-5 around the corner. go in there looking for his ball. can't find the ball, ask beth to help him look for the ball. and as she was there, he'd get down on a knee, bring the ring out, "will you marry me" that's exactly what happened. it worked like a charm. it was beautiful. but then just inspiration of

having him on the bag, inside the ropes. inside the ropes is a lot different from watching outside. he was part of the decision making process, how i played the golf course, it was very special time. i wanted to do well for him. >> charlie: you set out to play back farther, or someone said, whether you can go in to your father's business or going to be professional golfer. you decided to be a professional golfer, i have read that you said "i'm going to be the greatest player." >> a little arrogant. >> charlie: did you believe it and why? what is it about tom watson that made that true? you were the biggest money winner, you won as we said british open, the masters and u.s. open, not the pga, yet. i'll give you that. >> growing up actually on my website just went live this last

week, my first blog on the website. i don't know how to blog, but i wrote a story about my most memorable victory. you would think maybe british open, '77. the u.s. open in '82. no, it was a tournament when i was tournaments, earl tournamenthe in '7d '75 i had great opportunity to win. that's the tournament i wanted to win most. >> charlie: more than the masters. >> more than the master or the british open. the toughest golf course. >> what a way to win, what a way to finish! tom watson birdied 18. he wins it by two. >> my dad had a great history with it. he knew every open champion, u.s. open champion from start from 1895 on. he used to quiz him, it was fun.

when i got to the point of winning my first tournament, that was kind of like winning when i was 14 years old. if i can win out here, why not reach for the stars. why not try to be the best. at that time i was just trying to learn my game and try to -- try to make it so i make the top 60 so i didn't have to qualify mondays and be a rabbit. in '74 i made the comment with a special dinner when i won my first tournament, my dad was there, his best friend, bob from kansas city. i said in front of all these people, i said, "i want to be the best player in the world" and my dad's friend came up, tom, you shouldn't be saying this in public. but that was from the heart. it was from thinking if i gave the effort, and i had some of the necessary tools to possibly

get there. >> charlie: what's the separating thing between watson and somebody who had all the strokes but didn't have what happened between woods and same thing, between nicklaus, palmer, player. what's the difference? is it the strokes? is it -- what? is it the practice? >> all i can say very simply, charlie, to me it was failing and hating failure. hating the failure. wanting to prove to people that i was not a choker, that i did not -- that's a terrible moniker to go around in life with not being able to handle under pressure. i had that moniker. i think that was -- that inspired me to be a tougher

competitor and to understand from a strategic standpoint when i'm under the pressure how to play the game and take some of the risk out of the game. the best at that i think was jack nicklaus. i believe that jack was the best at taking the element of risk out of individual shots. he was -- he had great talent. but he had that ability to take that risk out. >> charlie: is that playing smart, is that what it is? >> let me continue on here. i had an interesting lunch one time, i met ben hogan one time. i had a great lunch with him, i had -- asked him a couple of questions, two of which really stand out in my mind. the first was, i said, mr. hogan, do you think that a tall golfer will ever come around down the pike really be a great golfer? he said, absolutely. because at that time there was -- nobody tall could ever

play -- >> hogan was about 5'7". >> right. the other thing, how nervous did you get when you were playing in competition? he looked at me with the steely blue eyes, he was a wonderful -- he looked and got serious said, tom, i was so nervous i was jumping out of my skin. i'm thinking, here is a guy called the wee iceman that underneath there he's got a lot of pressure. i talked to lou travina and jack, a good friend, you hear them talk about under the gun. we all have nerves and how do you deal with that. a certain toughness you have to have, certain belief in yourself, some times that belief is teetering on the edge of questioning yourself. you want to expand that distance between that distance right there.

questioning yourself and positive ability, your positive attitude about the way your playing. that comes directly from how you're playing. how about warming up before a final round. that gets you out on -- >> charlie: why do you warm up poorly? >> i'm just using the example -- >> charlie: i know you are. why would you have a poor warm up? is it just the nature of the game, whatever happened that day, that morning you weren't in the groove? >> maybe the pressure of the nerves got to you. i remember lee talking about a tournament in houston. he had 4-shot lead going to the last round, he shot 75 or 76 and lost it. i saw him the next week, lee, what in the heck happened that last round? he said, i woke up sunday morning, i took a cup of coffee i was shaking like that i knew i had no chance. he couldn't explain it. you wake up sometimes with just something that just doesn't feel

right, right here. >> charlie: after you had the confidence that you had victories, you had championships, then you had a fallow period. >> i sure did. >> charlie: struggled, why was that. >> there was combination ofthini didn't trust my swing. i got my confidence officer my trust in my swing. i'd go out and practice and practice until i tried to reach the point where at the end of the practice session i felt confident that i was doing it the right way. i didn't get there, charlie. combination, it snowball affect rolling downhill that the confidence got less and less, but a result of not hitting the ball very well. i got to the point where putting was affected by the.

my game was affected by it. i struggled. i took time off. i remember six weeks, two months off without even touching a club which i'd never done. that didn't work. i finally found it, it. i found it. >> charlie: it, being, what? >> i found what worked with my golf swing, i found what i call the secret. my secret. and i found it in 1994 at the heritage golf classic at harper town golf links. on tuesday practice round about 3:15 in the afternoon after a lousy practice round. i got on the practice te he can andivity going to hit some balls to try to figure it out. i'm tired of swinging out to the right, toe-deep defendants. i have to make that club when that did i it hits the ball it has to go straight then go left a little bit. they went out to the ball with a toe-deep divit like

that. i thought of cory pavin the ryder cup cavity this year. cory had unusual practice swing where he took the club in then around over the top. >> charlie: this is great story. the story you are telling in here, it's a great story. temp it. >> when he did that, i said, i want to feel the impact. i want to make the club go left, right over here rather than out to right field. because i grew up learning the swing where you up at the top, went up here, soft legs coming in. you drove your legs, you drop way. you got your right should tire low, got your club stuck behind here you hit the ball out to right field. i said, i'm going to feel like this at impact. right shoulder over the top. once i got to that, i said, got to the decision i'm going to make that swing. over do it. i made the swing once, it was a

perfect shot with a 3 iron, twice, perfect shot with a 3 iron. third time, hit it just one groove low but still perfect shot. the diveters is rs leveled out. that one moment was the light switch that went on. from then on i studied why this position right here, i put myself in a better position at address, i basically discovered my secret -- >> charlie: was that unique to you? >> no. say, tom, you have to -- something has to happen. you have to discover it. >> i think, i worked with butch harmon and david, but i also worked with stan, my long time mentor and friend.

i'm hard headed i'm going to do it my way. it stopped work can in the '80s and early '90s until i got hard headed enough to say, pretty simplement don't swing your club out here. >> charlie: you were still as tough and still as good on yourself still taking care of yourself at that time. >> uh-huh. >> charlie: just something happened. you weren't taking the game less serious and you weren't doing anything -- >> i always took it seriously, it's been so frustrating. it was so frustrating. not to have it. >> charlie: but you never thought about quitting? >> i did. i said, this is just not going to work. i gave it up for a couple of

months to see if that would just soothe everything out and get back to it. but i was getting back to it i was getting back in my old habits. that didn't work. >> charlie: what's great about this is the reference to legends of this sport. sneed, hogan, nicklaus, so many people that played this game. >> that's why i titled it "lessons of a lifetime ." these are the lessons that these people over the course of a lifetime -- >> i learned everything from somebody else. i really did. i hit a million golf balls. but i learned it from other people. and i gleaned from what i observed and watched to see if something would help my golf game. when i went first to join the tour i went to all the pros in kansas city, herman sharlowa tommy armour disciple, he worked up in chicago down in boca and i

went to all the pros with whom i played on mondays. each one i asked the question, what one thing will help me? this is all independent of anybody there. each one of them said the same thing. you play with and observe the best players out there. you'll learn from them. that's what i did. i went out watched nicklau. >> charlie: what did you learn? >> i watched -- what i watched with jack was his head position. how steady his head position. i watched him hit the ball high left or right, i copied that. i hit the ball left to right. in 1976 i made a change in my swing over in japan, i had a terrible year in '76 but i was over in japan, i hit it up in the side of the mountain in pot am. iago to the awkward position what i did i wanted it back. let's try to take the club back. closed, then open it up going

through. i made that swing, perfect shot. went to the practice tee it worked in the practice tee then 1977 i had my break-out year. that was one thing that i observed jack, i observed arnie, i observed lee, who i considered to be best ball striker. best maneuverer of the golf ball. if you will. anybody in my generation. >> charlie: meaning that he knew exactly where his club was, knew how his club was going to hit the ball and knew exactly where he was going -- >> great pitchers of baseball i equate to that. how they make the ball move and position it. great pitchers can locate a pitch but they have at their variety maybe five or six pitches. they have maybe at their disposal three or four speeds as well. there is so much variety. you have so much more -- you can take a lot of the element of risk out if you can make the

ball slice on purpose or hook on purpose or hit the ball low on purpose or hit the ball high on purpose. you can take a lot of element of risk out of there. that's what my dad taught me at age six. he taught me first of all how to hold on, how to grip the golf cub that was the most important thing. do you this, put the two knuckles, look down there you see two knuckles, the vs of both your hands point to your right shoulder. >> charlie: that's it. >> then also said, swing the golf club. he held my head, jack was his wonderful teacher. then he said, swing. then he taught me how to slice the ball, hook the ball at age six. pull your right foot back. slice the ball, take on the outside. >> charlie: that explains, this is a question, not a statement. that explains some of the fact that you see great players with different swings achieving the same result. getting the ball to go where they want to, although the swings are not the same.

there's some fundamentals, i assume. the swing, even the grip overlap his interlocking grip, tiger has interlocking grip. >> the key is not the fingers, charlie, it's the position of the left hand on the golf club. >> charlie: i understand. i agree with you. you look at -- >> lee had a little bit stronger left hand put over like he saw maybe more of the back of his hand. johnny miller had weaker. the position of the left hand on the club, right hand like this. it just breeds consistency. >> charlie: what did hogan have and what did snead have? >> hogan had the work ethic of learning how -- he changed his swing, charlie, after so many years of having grip which was grip like this, said i'm never going to hook the ball again.

byron told me a story, wonderful story about ben before he changed his grip. he said, tom i was i was on the practice te, ben and i we knew each other but we were pretty adamant competitors. i was walking by him, byron, come over here and watch me. i can't get this driver off the ground it's going straight left over here. byron said, ben, try this driver right here. he looked at the driver, had -- ben said, he had a hook face, hit four drives, byron said straight up in the air, straight like this. he turned it, gave the club back said, i can't hit this, it's too hooked. byron shook his head and left. these fellows had something that -- they grew up in an era where a quarter was a lot of money. 75 cents was a lot of money. and that's what they caddied for

at glenn garden club in fort worth. they grew up dirt poor, they struggled. they became -- they were tough as kids. >> charlie: hogan used to say are in the dirt, he'd say, it's in the dirt. >> that hogan and nelson, live to tell this one, they were pretty competitors, i don't know how much they liked each other they were really good competitors. byron is in the locker room, here comes a reporter like charlie rose he said, "byron, ben hogan just said, if you practiced more you'd be a better player." byron just like this said, "tell ben i've already learned how to swing the golf club." [ laughter ] >> charlie: sam had a great -- >> he wasmy dad's idolol because of the smoothness, athletic, powerful. there's the modern golf swing.

on the base of your spine that's secret that i -- >> charlie: come around just fine. >> your shoulder plane is the same. what's great about this, a, is that it's done. whoever the photographer was, whoever -- >> terry was the director of abc golf for 12 years. >> charlie: it's done well. it's as good as i have seen for understanding the game. you get the sense of the story of the game because you hear what somebody has told you. you cover it all. this is the thing here in terms of just taking, for example, the secret, talk about spine angle then the take away which is the back swing. club head out on the take away. all of this. i would love to do this again. thank you so much for coming. >> thanks, charlie. >> charlie: glad to have you here. tom watson, lessons of a

lifetime, the dvd. instructions from one of golf's greats. it's more than instructions it's a story of golf. thank you for watching. see you next time. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org 'm very sorry, .