captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> ifill: good evening. i'm gwen ifill. the house of representatives passed a $26 billion jobs bill in a rare august special session. >> brown: and i'm jeffrey brown. on the newshour tonight, the congressional debate, which focused on public sector jobs, government spending, and election-year politics. >> ifill: then, analysts winslow wheeler and thomas donnelly assess defense secretary gates' plan to slash military spending. >> brown: the first in a series of reports from spencer michels on cyber security. tonight: the safety of the nation's wired infrastructure. >> if you do something in the cyber domain something happens in physical space. this is not just a video game. >> ifill: political editor david

chalian on embattled new york democrat charles rangel's unusual and emotional self- defense on the house floor today. >> brown: and we take up the fight over whether an islamic community center, including a mosque, should be built just blocks from the world trade center site. >> ifill: that's all ahead on tonight's newshour. major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by:

>> and by the bill and melinda gates foundation. dedicated to the idea that all people deserve the chance to live a healthy, productive life. and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and... this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> ifill: the house gave final approval today to a bill democrats said will save thousands of public sector jobs. the vote, engineered by house speaker nancy pelosi, was 247- 161. congress is supposed to be on summer recess but the house returned today for a one-day session.

about jobs and election-year politics. >> as long as we can come back and create jobs, we'll take every opportunity to do it. >> we are here today because the speaker of the house has declared us in emergency session. there's a national emergency. apparently congress has not spent enough money. >> ifill: a few hours later the house passed a $26 billion measure that includes $10 billion to help save the jobs of 160,000 teachers and $16 billion to pay for six more months of state medicaid funding. democrats said this will allow affectd states to shift funds to other priorities. like keeping more than 150,000 police officers and other public workers employed. the measure has already passed the senate and the president quickly signed it this afternoon. joined in the white house rose garden this morning by two teachers and education secretary arne duncan, mr. obama appealed for action.

>> we can't stand by and do nothing while pink slips are given to the men and women who educate our children or keep our communities safe. that doesn't make sense. and the money will only go towards saving the jobs of teachers and other essential professionals. this should not be a partisan issue. >> ifill: but republicans dismissed the appeal as pure politics. congressman john klein of minnesota said states are operating education budgets that they simply can't afford. >> at best inflating state education spending for another year will kick the can down the road. merely postponing the tough decisions and allowing states to overextend themselves for another year. at worst, another bailout will make states more dependent on the federal government and more susceptible to washington's political whims. >> ifill: republicans also objected on the way the bill would be paid for in part by raising taxes on u.s. companies doing business overseas. outside the house chamber minority leader john boehner

went further charging the bill was really an election-year pay-off to public employee unions. >> this bailout to the teachers unions is some of the most irresponsible policy that i've seen. the american people are screaming at the top of their lungs stop! and washington continues to spend, spend, spend. well, listen, i've been around my district. i can tell you what. i've been around a few other districts. the american people know that it's time for the spenders to go and to have real fiscal responsibility here in washington d.c. >> ifill: on the house floor democrats insisted it's sound policy paid for in a sound way. new jersey congressman steve rossman. >> the democrats came up with the solution. we paid for every penny of it. we're helping the states, the tax payers and those in need. we're moving the country forward. we will not allow this country to go back to the place that brought us to the brink of disaster. >> ifill: other democrats like

barney frank of massachusetts accused republicans of trying to block any action that might help democrats in november. >> republicans have a two-step strategy. first of all, obstruct anything from getting better and then point out that things aren't getting better. i mean the bill that is being passed today if it would have passed a month ago we wouldn't have the job loss reported last week. i think they're fine with that. i think it's very clear. they don't want to see things get better. >> ifill: in the end democrats celebrated the passage of the measure. >> this is really a very happy afternoon for us because the house just passed legislation that has a direct relationship to the strength of our communities, the education of our children, the safety of our neighborhoods, the stability of the economy of our states. and really points directly to our prospects for the future. >> ifill: the measure passed in both the house and the senate largely along party lines.

>> brown: still to come on the newshour, cutting defense spending; vulnerability in cyberspace; rangel's ethics problems; and the latest ground zero debate. but first, the other news of the day. here's hari sreenivasan in our newsroom. >> sreenivasan: the federal reserve gave a more downbeat appraisal of the economy today. in a statement, the central bank projected growth will be "more modest" than its june estimate. to help, the fed announced it will buy more government debt, in a bid to cut interest rates for mortgages and corporate debt. it also left a key interest rate at a record low. the fed's announcement helped wall street recoup some of its losses from earlier in the day. the dow jones industrial average had been down 100 points earlier. it finished with a loss of 54 points to close at 10,644. the nasdaq fell 28 points to close at 2277. the desperate plight of flood victims in pakistan deepened again today. thousands of people fled a major city in the central part of the country, and millions of others waited for help. we have a report narrated by kylie morris of independent television news.

>> reporter: the flood waters in the punjab arriving so fast the government called for a mass evacuation. only one example of what's happening in towns right across the south. the market, even the hospital locked and left. a city of 250,000 people loading up to leave. these villagers salvage what they can from the murky, broub waters. cots for sleeping and sitting. any timber. a fan once used to keep the family cool, now keeping it all dry is the priority. >> we have nothing to eat. we've had to leave all our livestock behind. all we could do is save our families. >> reporter: now their only sopgs to move on. the waters rising still in this heavily populated province. an island of dry road is their only refuge with no promise of relief any time soon. who gets help and who doesn't is a lottery here.

the military is keen to show willing. scenes of well pressed soldiers loading trucks with their own charity donations. but many here are beyond charity. filled with grief at the catastrophe that has befallen them. >> sreenivasan: pakistani president asif ali zardari returned home today. he'd been widely criticized for going ahead with a visit to europe. meanwhile, the taliban urged the pakistani government to reject all help from the west. the death toll from landslides in northwestern china more than doubled today to more than 700. more than a thousand others were still missing. several mountain villages were buried over the weekend, by an avalanche of mud and rocks. it was triggered by a flooded river. rescuers did find one survivor today. he was a 52-year-old man who'd been trapped for more than 50 hours inside his leveled apartment. toxic smog from the russian wildfires eased across moscow today for the first time in nearly a week. but there was no let-up in the economic and political fallout.

as hundreds of fires continued to burn, a russian business newspaper reported damages will reach at least $15 billion from the fires and a crippling heat wave. and on the political front, prime minister vladimir putin flew on a firefighting plane. he's facing rising discontent over the government's response to the fires. the number of civilian deaths in afghanistan has risen sharply this year. the u.n. reported today nearly 1,300 afghans were killed in the first half of this year. that was up 30% from a year earlier. the report said insurgents caused more than 70% of the deaths, up from 58% last year. former alaska senator ted stevens was killed in a plane crash overnight in his home state. at least four others died. former nasa administrator sean o'keefe and his teenage son survived with broken bones. stevens served in the senate for 40 years, but lost in 2008 after a conviction on corruption charges. it was later dismissed.

last fall, he told the newshour there's reason to worry about the future of congress. >> the actions of members of the executive branch demonstrate that they really don't think it's necessary to have a congress. so it's... if i have any fears, it's the fear that the role of the congress will be diminished over a period ahead. >> sreenivasan: ted stevens was 86 years old. the h1n1 flu pandemic is officially over. the world health organization made the declaration today after months of criticism that it overreacted in the first place. the h1n1 flu strain killed more than 18,000 worldwide, but that was far lower than feared, and millions of doses of vaccine went unused. in rwanda, president paul kagame has won a second term. a preliminary tally today gave him 93% of the vote in yesterday's election. but the opposition was largely banned from taking part. at an early morning rally in the capital, kagame celebrated with his family and supporters.

it was rwanda's second election since the genocide of at least half a million people in 1994. those are some of the day's major stories. now, back to jeff. >> warner: yesterday defense secretary gates announced a new way of doing business at the pentagon. >> endless money has taken hold must be replaced by a culture of savings and restraint. >> warner: first on the chopping block, the joint forces command based in norfolk, virginia. its mission? to help unify the services with 2800 military and civilian employees and 3,000 contractors. >> training joint forces, jeb rating joint forces, creating joint doctrine and experimenting with that doctrine are all valuable. however, they do not necessarily require a separate four star combatant command.

>> warner: gates also vowed to eliminate at least 50 general and admiral posts, 5% of the total, and 150 senior civilian ones. he plans to cut spending on outside contractors by 10% a year for the next three years. but gates said that would not apply to war zones where contractors are vital. >> there are a lot of things contractors do that soldiers used to do. peel potatos, do the dishes . i think contractors ought to do that stuff. if i've got a highly trained combat infantryman, i don't want him spending his time doing that stuff. >> warner: the pentagon didn't specific how much these cuts would amount to. gates's overall goal is to save $100 billion over five years. the announcement drew swift political fire from virginia's republican governor bob macdonald. >> to dismantle joint forces command which is any effective efficient low cost joint

command between all of our services and scatter them to the four winds i believe is extremely short sighted. this is a very bad decision, in my opinion, not only for virginia but for the united states military. >> warner: the state's two democratic senators mark warner and jim web joined in the criticism. but president obama backed his defense secretary's move saying in a statement, the funds saved will help us sustain the current force structure and make needed investments in modernization in a fiscally responsible way. pentagon spending has more than doubled over the past decade with the u.s. waging wars in iraq and afghanistan. it's projected to top $700 billion next year. so what is secretary gates up to with these announced cuts so what is secretary gates up to with these announced cuts, and more in the pipeline? for that, we turn to two defense experts, both former capitol hill staffers. winslow wheeler, director of the straus military reform project at the center for defense information. his latest book is "military reform: a reference handbook."

and thomas donnelly, director of defense studies at the american enterprise institute. welcome, gentlemen, to you both. mr. wheeler, beginning with you. what is secretary gates trying to accomplish here? >> he's announcing a continuum of decisions to try to internally transfer money inside the pentagon from overhead to force structure. it's important not to get too hyper ventilated about what's going on here. the department of defense is at the highest ever spending level since the end of world war ii , and since secretary of defense rumsfeld on september 10, 2001, complained that 50% of the pentagon budget was overhead, it's grown since then. the steps that secretary gates

has announced are very welcome. they're the right thing to do. but they're only a modest step in the right direction. they don't address at all the situation of the department of defense budget and our overall federal spending plan where if we're going to get anything under control, the defense budget has to be a part of the spending going south not going north as secretary gates would like to do at a very modest but still going north 1% growth per year. >> warner: tom donnelly he did say yesterday several times this is not a budget cutting exercise meaning what? >> he's trying to save his procurement budget, his weapons budget which has been shaved even as the overall budget has gren for fighting the wars primarily. but he's got more weapons programs on the books than he can afford. he's really trying to save money. as winslow said for force structure. >> warner: in other words,

he's saying, "i can wrestle or west a lot of savings out of bureaucracy and overhead and actually..." but he kept saying the money will stay with the services, use that for his priority. >> he's hoping he will. >> congress will have something to say about that. >> or the deficit commission. a lot of people are stalking the defense department to try to reap some savings. >> warner: back to you, mr. wheeler. you're saying that the cuts he announced yesterday in themselves are not very significant in dollar terms? do you think they're significant in signaling an intention on his part? >> yes and no. it's important not, again not to overstate what he's doing. we're talking about some modest reductions in the growth of overhead since 2001. but he's meeting as your set-up piece showed, he's meeting some fierce resistance by the people on capitol hill.

the virginia political delegation should be utterly ashamed of itself for suggesting that the nation needs to feed money to virginia while the rest of the nation makes sacrifices in the defense budget. he's got... gates has a serious mountain to climb in terms of dealing with congress on even these very modest issues. what i think we're seeing is that the powers-that-be on capitol hill in the defense committees, arm services and appropriations are not going to be the change agents for the new direction that the pentagon budget is clearly going to be taking. those change agents are coming from other places, and the defense committees on capitol hill will be the defenders of business as usual. a likely change agent, if it succeeds-- and it's a big if-- is president obama's deficit commission where some pretty serious proposals are being considered about getting

pentagon overspending under control and doing it in a way that makes us better off, not worse off. the worstate possible situation is what gates fears the most which is business as usual at a lower spending level. >> warner: let me get back to you, mr. donnelly. do you think what he announced yesterday is significant in terms of what it is signaling about what he's going to do? >> only in an indirect way. it signals that gates is worried and he's right to be worried because of the political background in which he's operating. savings themselves and the numbers and the budge hes aren't going to make that much of a difference. organizationally taking down joint forces command doesn't matter that much. >> warner: even though it's the only time a whole command has been taken down, nobody is going to object. why? >> well, people will object. the virginia delegation has already objected. i don't think it will go beyond that. there's not a huge constituency outside the

virginia delegation for this headquarters. not a very high priority for people in uniform. it's kind of an idea whose time has long since passed. so if there's a battle royal over this, i would be surprised. as winslow suggests the real battle is looming over the horizon with all kinds of deficit reduction proposals that would look to target the defense department. >> warner: now, let me stick with you for a minute, mr. donnelly. he said yesterday he wants to reform the culture in the pentagon. what's he at least talking about there? >> i think that's an overblown statement. i'm going to sound like i'm defending waste, fraud and abuse here. i wouldn't do that obviously. but i think that's more political window dressing because again when we're talking about looking at the actual proposals that he's making, it doesn't change that much. the bigger change is that secretary gates has already made are his program terminations. that is a big change. but that happened 18 months

ago. this is i think more about secretary gates reclaiming the political high ground and trying to end that battle with capitol hill with those whose oxes are about to be gored. >> warner: winslow wheeler, what does this tell us about bob gates? >> i think it's fair to say that he is one of the more remarkable secretaries of defense we've seen in a very long time. maybe since robert mcnamara in the 1960s in terms of his willingness to take on the bureaucracy and the generals . in the past, secretaries of defense have announced things like this. bureaucracies ignored them. and the secretary has ignored his being ignored. gates is very different from that. they have to pay attention to him. they know if they don't or if they go behind his back to congress for rescue, there's

going to be a price to pay. likely their jobs. gates says pretty much... gates has pretty much swept away the bureaucratic war fighting when he wants to . his problem is with capitol hill , and as i say he may be able to sort of side step capitol hill if he begins to understand that the change agents here that he may most usefully deal with are not the defense committees on cap capitol hill but other change agents. >> warner: what do you think this says about bob gates? >> he's become in the last couple of years not just the secretary of war which is what was hired to do but a secretary of defense trying to influence the institution, the military industrial complex, if you will, that's been built up since world war ii and it remains to be seen whether it will have a lasting effect.

>> warner: tom donnelly and winslow wheeler, thank you both. >> ifill: now, another concern for the pentagon. correspondent spencer michels reports on cyber warfare. >> reporter: in a dark hotel ball room off the las vegas strip, hundreds of computer geeks are playing a high-tech version of capture the flag. among them a contingent from korea dressed in traditional gash. but this is no childhood game. these are the final rounds of the deadly serious exercise at the death con hacking convention. looking for security holes that can be exploited the way a computer expert, a criminal, a spy or a saboteur would. and there are security holes everywhere. earlier this summer the pentagon revealed that its systems are attacked 250,000 times an hour, six million times a day.

the department of energy recently warned that computer networks controlling the electric grid are riddled with vulnerabilities, confirming reports that hackers have developed malicious computer code designed specifically to target power plants and other critical infrastructure around the world. video of a simulated attack conducted at the idaho national lab and obtain by cnn showed how a hacker could simply use a dial-up modem to destroy a massive power turbine. and that goes for the nation's water supply and air traffic control. jeffrey carr who spoke at the convention says that means the united states is at serious risk. he specializes in defeating cyber attacks against infrastructure and government. >> the entire global grid has become a leveler of power. so the great strength that the u.s. military has has been

mitigated because of its vulnerability. the fact that it has so relied on networks. this has become a new leveler just like the colt 45 was considered the great equalizer. well the internet now has taken over that role. >> we give you nothing but the best. >> reporter: for 18 years, death con has attracted hackers of all stripes. security experts, computer-wise kids, professors and maybe even in some criminals. hackers at this convention have become surprisingly open about what they do. presentations here include how to hack millions of routers, hacking hardware, and we don't need no stinking badges. hacking electronic doors. at the more upscale black hat gathering held the same week experts exchange information and experience . the concept of cyber war may

seem theoretical since there are no bombs and no troops. to attendees like michael hayden who is the director of the c.i.a. and the national security agency cyber war is not just a game. >> if you do something in the cyber domain, something happens in physical space. this is not just a video game . real things happen. so whatever you decide here, it's actually going to make a difference in physical space. sometimes those differences are questions of life and death. >> reporter: has that happened to your knowledge? >> i'm not at liberty to discuss. that's the best answer i can give you. >> reporter: but real instances of cyber attacks by one nation against another have been confirmed by intelligence experts not to tied to the government. russia launched a digital attack on estonia in 2007 swamping websites and incapacitating banks and media. the same year israel reported confusing syrian radar by hacking into computers prior

to bombing an alleged nuclear facility. in 2008 paving the way for military action, russia attacked georgia's computer infrastructure crippling the country. and last year sensitive information' the f-35 fighter plane project was stolen from pentagon computers. cyber intelligence expert jeffrey carr says the attack came from hackers in china. he says the threat from china is far reaching. >> if an attack by the u.s. is imminent they want to have the ability to shut down u.s. government command-and-control networks. they do that by shutting down the grid because 31 out of 34 of the department of defense's most critical assets rely on the public grid. >> reporter: do you think they could do it? >> absolutely. the grid is wide open. >> reporter: the january when google executives said that hackers from china had broken into the company's computer networks to steal information about chinese dissidents, that sounded alarm bells in washington.

but to jeff moss, a computer security expert who founded both hacker conventions, google's announcement was welcome. >> when google came up and said to the world, hey, we're being attacked. we think it's china. they stood up and drew a lot of attention to this problem. now it's not new. corporate america has been getting attacked for decades. why? why now? why all of a sudden is it a big problem now? is it because google is a really large company and they know the right people. >> reporter: and they're willing to talk about it. >> they're willing to talk about it. i'm hoping that google going public will encourage others to go public. because as a country how can we have an informed debate, how can our decision-makers, our policy makers make an informed decision if they don't have the facts? so my attempt for conferences like this is try to bring people the facts. >> reporter: among those moss is trying to reach are government cyber security specialists like riley repco with the u.s. air force. moss ran into him at the black

hat convention which they agreed was a good venue to learn secret tricks of the trade. >> we rely on open forums. to really figure out what is possible. i think maybe that's what you guys find interesting. >> that's the key. i think more and more they're going to see more and more government attendees to events like this. >> reporter: among other defense department attendees, jim kristie of the d.o.d.'s cyber crime center. >> we want the latest and greatest tools and techniques that the bad guys are going to use so we can build countermeasures. sometimes we have sources here, informants that will work the crowds. we have undercovers that may come in here. >> reporter: many of the lessons are self-taught. is anybody really good at identifying... these hackers were working together on figuring out how their electronic conference badge worked. essentially an exercise akin to breaking into a computer. palmer eldridge, a self-described hacker, explained how he does it.

>> a lot of attempting to understand cyber security comes in the form of understanding puzzles. so during death con, the badges are one of the most famous pazals out there. >> reporter: defending against cyber attacks is an industry in its infancy. jeff moss says not quite there yet. >> it's solvable just not solvable easily because when we design these systems, a lot of them were not designed with a hostile adversary, not so much intentional man made attacks specifically pushing the right button at the right time to cause the most problems. you know, they call that satan's computer. we did not design our country's infrastructure to defend against, you know, a satan-type add rer saer that knows exactly what to do at the right time. it's not kboblg to defend against. it just takes a new way of thinking about things. >> reporter: one new approach general hayden advocates is

engaging other countries in a discussion about cyber security. >> there are no international norms of behavior in cyberspace. let's start there. let's start building up a consensus as to what constitutes good and bad behavior. in the cyber domain. >> reporter: not necessarily a treaty at this point. >> certainly not a treaty at this point. the thinking is frankly just not mature enough. besides that, you know, a treaty depends upon verification. there is nothing more difficult to verify than somebody developing a cyber weapon. you can do that in the garage. >> reporter: for several years the military has been recruiting hackers to work on cyber security. now the obama administration has stepped up its efforts and created a new cyber command to deal with the cyber threat. unscripted display of defiance,

>> ifill: in a dramatic and unscripted display of defiance, new york democrat charles rangel took to the floor of the house of representatives today. as he awaits a house trial on a series of alleged ethics violations, the 80-year-old former ways and means committee chairman vowed to stay and fight. >> i have been losing a lot of sleep over these allegations . my family and community. some of these rules that they have is that i'm restricted by confidentiality. but for years i have been saying no comment, no comment, no comment to a lot of serious allegations because i could not comment and i would refer them to the ethics committee. hey, i'm 80 years old. all of my life has been from the beginning public service. that's all i've ever done. been in the army. been a state legislator. been a federal prosecutor. 40 years here.

and all i'm saying is that if it is the judgment of people here, for whatever reason, that i resign, then have the ethics committee expedite this. don't leave me swinging in the wind until november. if this is an emergency-- and i think it is is to help our local and state governments out-- what about me? i don't want anyone to feel embarrassed, awkward. hey, if i was you, i may want me to go away too. i am not going away. i am here. i do recognize that.... ( applause ) for god's sake just don't believe that i don't have feelings, that i don't have pride, that i do want the dignity that had president has said. and the dignity is that even if you see fit to cause me not to be able to come back

because you're not going to do it in my district but if there's some recommendation that i be expelled , for me, for me, that would be dignity. >> ifill: joining us to discuss >> ifill: joining us to discuss what mr. rangel's remarks might mean for the congressman and his party is newshour political - ow unusual was that, david, for him to go to the well of the house like that? >> really rare, gwen. we never see that. we have seen after some folks in the congress lose, they go and make a real partisan speech in the well. but not when somebody is under a cloud of ethics allegations the way charlie rangel is right now. he went to the well against the advice of his lawyers. he went to the well after democratic leadership in the house tried to convince him not to go to the well. them didn't want to hear this speech today. he felt he not told his side of the story yet. he clearly had some grievances about the process. he wanted to air those grievances. >> ifill: both he and max even waters the congresswoman from california who is also under an ethical cloud have turneded the argument against the ethics committee and the whole process.

do they have a point? >> here's the point that they do have that i think gained some traction for them and their argument. it's a timing point. charlie rangel is talking about a process now that has been underway for two years. he talked about his legal bills mounting for these two years. he still doesn't know the date of this trial for the fall. it's easy to understand both of their worries in the heat of an election season. if they really truly believe in their innocence, as they do, they want a trial as quickly as possible to air the evidence and get an acquittal if that's what they think they're going to get from the ethics committee. >> ifill: we know charlie rangel has been in congress 40 years now. he comes from a storied congressional district in new york. is he in any trouble this fall in these midterm elections? >> here's the timing factor is even more important for charlie rangel than it is for max even waters. her primary season is already done. he has a september 14 primary, a five-way primary. he doesn't look like he's this that much danger but he's not pulling over 50%. that's a danger sign for any

incumbent. in a five-way race he doesn't need 50% to win. it is worth noting that one of the opponents is the son of the very same adam clayton powell that charlie rangel defeated 40 years ago in a democratic primary to take that seat. >> ifill: why isn't it a slam dunk for charlie rangel who is well known in his district, well known in washington, even under this cloud, why isn't it a slam dunk to get re-elect snd. >> i think he is overwhelmingly favored for re-election. it's not a slam dunk because this has been a two-year story where people in the district even his hard-core supporters in the district in manhattan are beginning to question what is going for two years? that's why he's so eager to get a trial. i also the president's comments about dignity that he wants to retire for dignity caused charlie rangel to go to the floor. those comments i think charlie rangel took as quite a personal affront from the president. i think he wanted to speak to that. >> ifill: he referenced it

more than once for his speech. do we have a date for that trial yet? >> we do not. they were called back into the special session. he was hope to go get a date from the ethics committee. they were not there to do that kind of work today. >> ifill: a remarkable day. thank you, david chalian. >> thank you. >> brown: finally tonight, once again, a ground zero debate. the recovery involves a proposed islamic center slated to be built where a vacant clothing store now sits just two blocks from the world trade center site. the cordova initiative, a group that aims to promote positive interaction between the muslim world and the west plans to build a 13-story community center including a mosque on park place in lower manhattan. opposition has come from several quarters including some families of 9/11 victims. >> they can have their mosque but have it somewhere else. i don't want it overlooking the site where my son was murdered that day by 19 muslim

terrorists. >> ifill:. >> brown: a prominent jewish group also came out against the mosque as have some politicians including former alaska governor sarah palin who sent a message on twitter asking peaceful muslims to, as she wrote, repudiate the mosque. but the project has also received strong support from many other civic groups and leaders including new york city mayor michael bloomberg. >> should government attempt to deny private citizens the right to build a house of worship on private property based on their particular religion? that may happen in other countries but we should never allow it to happen here. >> brown: last week the new york city landmark's preservation commission voted unanimously to allow the construction. >> all in favor. >> brown: the ground zero mosque debate is the most high profile of several similar battles around the country. in nashville, for example, a proposal for a large islamic center has met with angry opposition. >> they're taking christ out of everything.

you know, with the mosque coming here and right next door to a baptist church i'm afraid it's just going to get worse. >> brown: at the same time at the pentagon, another site of 9/11 attacks, the department of defense has regularly held muslim worship services. the next one will be this friday afternoon. meanwhile, the new york city fight isn't over with lawsuits possible. and just today the city's transit agency approved a new ad proposing a mosque that will soon greet commuters on some new york city buses. and new york's governor david patterson offered state assistance to cordova if it does decide to move the site further from the world trade center. many voices have weighed in on this in recent days. we hear from four, including two who lost relatives in the 9-11 attacks. charles wolf is a commercial pilot who lives in lower manhattan. his wife was at work in an office in the towers. neda bolourchi is an iranian- born american citizen who lives in california. her mother was on one of the planes that struck the world trade center.

also joining us: nihad awad, executive director of the council on american-islamic relations, the largest muslim civil liberties advocacy organization in the united states. and michael medved, a nationally syndicated radio talk show host whose show reaches some four million listeners weekly. charles wolf, i'll start wu. you've spoken out in favor of building the mosque as an example of american tolerance. explain. >> exactly. first of all, i should say i'm not a commercial pilot. i'm a private pilot. but that's not my profession. >> brown: sorry. >> i firmly believe in two things. number one is i will not paint all muslims with a broad brush. these were extremist terrorists that did this. i know many very, very good upstanding citizen muslims. there are millions of them around the country. i will not stain all of them with what they call guilt by afill iation. number two. we were attacked on this ... on

september 11 because of all the ten et cetera in the first amendment. freedom of press, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and for us to then roll back the freedom of religion, to me, is falling right into their hands. >> brown: neda bolourchi you wrote in an op-ed piece that a mosque would transform the site from a sacred ground to reflection to a battle ground for religious and political ideologies. please explain that. >> thank you so much. first of all for having me. and mr. wolf i wanted to give my condolences to you. i obviously understand very much how you feel. i just wanted to very briefly say that i am not against the religion itself, but i deeply feel that this particular site has turned into a sacred ground. i do not want it to be used for political ideologies of people who think that

this building might become a peace offering to others. i don't think it will. there have been many mosques that have been built before september 11 and there will be afterwards. none of those mosques created anymore communication than this one will. >> brown: neda nihad awad you have decried what you see as a false blending of radical islam in this center. >> this issue has been built on misinformation and misunderstanding. i too sympathize with the families and the victims of 9/11. but the ones who have organized active opposition to the islamic center in new york are basing their activism on a false assumption that the attacks had to do anything with

the muslim community or with islam. the muslim community condemned the attack repeatedly. we have a 60-page compilation of statements from major clerics in the united states and around the world. the second thing it is not a mosque. it is not on ground zero. the muslim community has owned that property before 9/11. there was also an attempt to deamericanize muslim-americans, that they are the "others." we reject that. we are americans. in america we're all equal. the terrorists would like to pit us against each other. we hand them, if we do, with hand the terrorists a victory if we submit to them. >> brown: michael medved. you've discussed this on your program. misinformation. false impressions. what do you see going on? why does this resonate with your listeners? >> i think there are false impressions on both sides.

and just as mr. awad said and he's right that the entire muslim community shouldn't be associated with terrorist ideology by the same token people who question the placement of this mosque shouldn't all be treated as bigots and haters and people who want to demonize all of islam. there are dozens and dozens of mosques in new york city. i think this is what people have called a teachable moment. it is a moment for better communication. i would urge the people behind the cordova initiative to go ahead and accept some of the offers that have come forward to find a better, more appropriate place that isn't polarizing, that isn't controversial. i happen to believe that one of the reasons people react so passionately to this is because of the lack of building anything else at this site. i mean it's been a terrible, terrible gap for ten years. for one of the first high- profile buildings to be an islamic center seems to court the kind of polarization and

the kind of disagreement that really is unnecessary. i for one would be glad to help the people behind the cordova initiative find a place a few blocks north or anywhere else in manhattan to build a more appropriate location for actual understanding and coming together that they say they want. >> brown: staying with you, mr. medved, is it the particular place, the particular mosque or is it the larger issue of islam, the larger questions of extremism? >> no, it's the larger idea-- and i think that a number of people have talked about the controversy before with the carmelite nuns who are wonderful people having built a convent right adjacent to auschwitz. it was insensitive. not that they didn't have a right to do it. but pope john paul the great understood that, yes, if we want understanding and if we want the kind of discussion here, there shouldn't be any claim of

triumphalism. the towers having been taken down it's true that muslims died on september 11 but a very small percentage of the victims were muslim. 100% of the perpetrators were muslim. it gives the entire site a different meaning if that site is literacyly built under the shadow or remains under the shadow of now a looming very substantial islamic cultural center. >> brown: charles wolf, one suggestion is move it further away. >> let's clear up some things right here because i live here. i live on mile north of ground zero. i've been down there. this cultural center will be two blocks north of ground zero on a cross street. things are railroad very tight down there. 13 stories is not tall. for lower manhattan. so it's not looming over ground zero. the only way you'd be able to see it from ground zero is if you were up in the freedom tower. secondly, the memorial will be

finished in one year and one month from today. the memorial will. the museum will be finished a year after that. people can't see it because there's fences up around there. the freedom tower is going up. so the statements that there's nothing else happening around here and the statement that this building is towering over ground zero is totally false. this building is going to have, my understanding and i'm not an expert, it's going to have a swimming pool, a 400-seat theater, auditorium, art center. people outside of new york city don't know how valuable this is. we've already got a similar building built by the jewish community uptown called the 92nd second street. i don't see any problem here except that which is manufactured by people who really don't know what's going on. >> brown: neda bolourchi, come back here. you're outside of new york. does that convince you at all? >> not really.

it's actually even worse because i don't know if i'm speaking on behalf of all the family members that are away but it's even more difficult because when you can't voice your opinions, i've been given this amazing opportunity to speak to you today but i know other family members who haven't had the chance to speak up. to me again, it may seem irrational and emotional argument and not a logical one. but i did not ask for this to happen but it has. now that it has, i really don't think building a mosque -- and as wonderful as this will be if it's supposed ton a cultural center. great it could be a cultural center somewhere that is not close to this particular place because for us families it means something else than to new york real estate developer or other people who want to use this site for their own statements. to me that's.... >> brown: i'm sorry.

>> sure. >> to me that's my mother's gravesite. it's plain and simple as that. i appreciate the fact that they are building a memorial and a museum. i don't care how tall it is. it could be one story or 13 stories. i do not like it to be close because so many people of different faiths also lost their lives. if that's so, we should build a temple and a church around it too. what about other people, hindus and everybody else that was on that plane that night. >> brown: hold on. let me get neda nihad awad back in here. >> again it's an emotional issue. i sympathize with all those who lost good family members. we're all americans. we all suffer. we continue to suffer. but emotions do not veto continues constitutional rights.

we are americans because we are proud of our heritage. america is welcomed everywhere and america has welcomed people from different backgrounds, different nationalities, different faith communities. and our country was founded on the freedom of expression and the freedom of religion. but the problem is when they link my faith with these terrorists i take an offense. i'm a muslim and proud of my faith. no one should play with my faith. no one should take me away from new york just because they feel that way. in america we don't do, you know, things the easy way. we do things the right way. >> brown: mr. medved, different emotional issues here. one that he just raised is equating his faith with the 9/11 attacks. that's what he sees happening. go ahead. >> no one is equating his personal faith with the 9/11 attacks. but you cannot deny the fact that the people who

perpetrated those 9/11 attacks did those attacks in the name of islam. i mean people have compared this to the murrah building and the fact that the murrah building in oklahoma city has churches nearby. timothy mcveigh didn't kill people in the name of christianity. the murderers of 9/11 did it in the name of islam. william crystal my colleague who was on my radio show yesterday has made a very, very constructive suggestion and a suggestion for president obama. president obama is in a unique position here because of some of the credibility he's achieved in the muslim community. it's an opportunity not for presidential power but for presidential leadership. to bring together both sides to this dispute and to try to work constructively to have people on the same page so that people like myself who question the location of this mosque, not its existence, not its buildings, not the building of the cordova house, but its location. the 92nd street y which was cited before has no

controversy regarding the location of that building. it has not offended some of the people to whom any ground was particularly sacred. i think the families should be taken very seriously. i think the objections of new yorkers and the people who care desperately about 9/11 being remembered and being remembered accurately need to be taken into account and with a negotiated agreement, not taking away anyone's right but actually bring us together in a positive, constructive direction which ought to be possible. >> brown: we just have a short time left. mr. wolf, that was one way forward put out there. do you see any way to go forward? what would you like to see happen now? >> i do. i do. i think that people, number one, ought to just google the location on google maps or something like that and take a look at what it real too. there... what it really is. there is a greek orthodox church being built on ground zero because it was destroyed. st. paul's chapel is across

the street from ground zero. this is how new york city is. there's religious institutions all over the place. one of the things i was very proud of after 9/11 is we didn't do the same thing to the muslims that we did to the japan he's after pearl harbor. now ten years later, has the anger and has the hurtfestered that much? i know there's a lot of my family and friends who are against this. they are very pained and i understand that. but i say that we have to remember what this country was founded on. it was founded on religious freedom. not just for some. not just for all that were here. but for all religious freedom. if there is any problem with illegal activities, i have full confidence in our law enforcement and intelligence agencys to ferret that out wherever it might be in whatever religious institutions. >> brown: we do have to leave it there. i want to thank you all for presenting your views so candidly. and forcefully with us. charles wolf, neda bolourchi, michael medved and nihad awad. thank you very much.

>> ifill: in a >> ifill: again, the major developments of the day. in a rare august session, the house approved a bill designed to save thousands of public sector jobs. president obama signed it a short time later. the federal reserve lowered its estimate of economic growth, and it announced new steps to try to boost activity. and former alaska senator ted stevens was killed in a plane crash in alaska. the newshour is always online. hari sreenivasan, in our newsroom, previews what's there. hari? >> sreenivasan: our cyber security series continues online. take a tour of the black hat conference with founder jeff moss. he also gives his take on the changing definition of a hacker. there's more on the life of former senator ted stevens, including reports from the alaska public radio network, among others. on "art beat," jeff catches up with music critics jim derogatis and greg kot of wbez-chicago for a recap of highlights from this year's lollapalooza music festival all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. gwen? >> ifill: and that's the newshour for tonight. on wednesday, tom bearden reports on what's happening to the oil and other debris retrieved from the gulf of mexico.

i'm gwen ifill. >> brown: and i'm jeffrey brown. we'll see you online, and again here tomorrow evening. thank you, and good night. major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and... this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you.

thank you. captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org vo:geico, committed to providing service to

its auto insurance customers for over 70 years. more information on auto insurance at geico.com or 1-800-947-auto any time of the day or night.